powdercoating frames..

[bugjuice]

just got back my '95 ZX6 frame from Rainbow Powder coaters in Albany, and for the tune of $145, my frame has been powder coated silver and lacquered over the top, and I must say, it is quite a top job. The frame was looking a bit tired, so I got it sand blasted then coated, and it looks like new now. But I've only done this, cos it's a new frame that was completely stripped and it's being rebuilt from the frame out. Else I don't know if I would have bothered. But, I just did a photoshop job on the 636, and I must say, it's a bit tempting..

Is it really worth stripping a bike completely to pieces just to coat the frame?

oh, I'll post photos of the frame as soon as I get home too, for those curious amongst us

[Postie]

yeah its worth it, i would. we could strip the bike in a day and rebuild in another day.
it would be fun.

[Eurodave]

Modern powder coating has come a long way & there are now some quite exciting finishes to be had plus its very durable & relatively cheap:2thumbsup

[Test Pilot]

put up a b4 pic so we can see if it makes a difference

[DMNTD]

I'd definately do it IF I had the bike stripped down. Would look sweet and protect it fully.
Wanting to do my rims the next time I replace my treads too.
Bling it on I reckon dood:2thumbsup

[skidMark]

im probably about to get a frame done...but did they get all the underside or are there parts where the powder didnt get to it ?

[SixPackBack]

All dimensions on the frame now have a layer of powder-coating. When reassembling care and fore thought will be needed with brackets, hole diameters, ETC......not wanting to burst your bubble but assembly could take a little longer. The result will be stellar.

[kerryg]

Powder coating is fine but there are a couple of things to bear in mind:

1. They won't powder coat unless the surface is abrasive blasted first so you have to factor in that expense
2. Abrasive blasting deposits crud in every imaginable little out-of-the-way wrinkle and orifice..on your frame.......so you need to pay attention to areas where that could present a problem (eg bearing surfaces in your headstock, swing arm pivot)
3. Powder coating cunningly coats even the inside of threaded holes, making it difficult to re-insert bolts etc
4. Curing of powder is done at reasonably high temperature in an oven and it is best not to subject headstock and swingarm bearings to those temperatures so best remove them (also refer 2. above)

[bugjuice]

im probably about to get a frame done...but did they get all the underside or are there parts where the powder didnt get to it ?
every tiny little crevice was covered inside and out, and upside down..

and it does get everywhere. As for the thread for bolts etc, they plugged them all up with silicon cone things that drop into the hole to stop the powder from getting into the thread. But I'm sure some bolts may give me some shit.

Plus, the other thing the guy told me when I picked it up was that if fuel gets spilt on it, the coat will turn brown where it stains. I don't know how easy it'd do that, so just a quick word of caution. He told me about some guy who did his fuel tank, and now has brown spots all over it where the fuel has spat. I don't know how long you get between spilling it and it going brown. Most gas stations have watering cans near by, so if it gets any spilt on (doubtful), then I can just quick rinse it of the frame..

[skelstar]

Buggy: did the $145 include the sandblasting? Did it take you a day to take all the bits off?
Ta.

[bugjuice]

no, didn't include the sandblasting.. that's a long story, and I don't know the cost. It was sandblasted before I gave it to Rainbow (http://www.devilducky.com/med0ia/12537/).

[Coyote]

I think the sexy3sexy looks better with the black frame. The silver frame is just like most bikes

How easy is it to dismantle an entire bike and reassemble it? Roughly, how much would a shop charge?

[bugjuice]

isn't hard to do it yourself. If you think of it in chunks, you've got the fairings, an engine, wiring, forks and a swingarm. There's more to it than that in the practical side of it, but it's not a huge task. I'll be timing how long it takes to rebuild a ZX6 from this new powder coated frame to a running bike

[Waylander]

I'm assuming the silver frame look is what you're going for? If you do it mate, then getting those controls in chrome wont matter, they'll match your bike lol.

[Postie]

I'm assuming the silver frame look is what you're going for? If you do it mate, then getting those controls in chrome wont matter, they'll match your bike lol.
its already silver, he is after the black frame.

[WRT]

Do it - the black frame looks cool.

[bugjuice]

when I was dropping off the ZX6 frame, the guy looked at me, tilted his head in a slight sarcastic sort of way, and said 'black coat then..?'. Apparently every other frame that comes in is being done in black.. I didn't do the ZX6 frame black, cos it wouldn't have suited the rest of the bike (green and white, with some pink/purple I think), just would have looked odd. So it got a shade of silver (one of 34 shades)

[**R1**]

whats wrong with paint??? my painter duz heaps of bikes, and the joy of paint is if its a external surface scratch then it can be easily fixed

[F5 Dave]

. . .
4. Curing of powder is done at reasonably high temperature in an oven and it is best not to subject headstock and swingarm bearings to those temperatures so best remove them (also refer 2. above)

And at what point are you effectively altering the heat treatment of your frame? Depending on what it is made from.
Some allys work harden, some (I imagine jap frames) require a heat treatment process.

Theoretically if you get it hot enough then you need to retreat it or it will be weaker. Maybe someone with a better grasp of metallurgy would correct of confirm this?

[bugjuice]

I dunno on that, but I know what you mean.

These guys are the biz when it comes to stuff like this, been doing it for years and a few of them ride themselves. Mainly they are industrial (I think, well, get that gist), so they know their stuff when it comes to metals and their properties

[F5 Dave]

So you are saying the painters know their stuff when it comes to metallurgy?

Well they can tell you how high the temp gets. . .

[skidMark]

not resistant to petrol wat the f**K

oh that sucks then can you get powdercoating done that is petrol resistant?

whats the difference in hpc coating anybody know?

ive got a place thats quoted me $120 to do my chopper frame

have to give him a ring and ask about the petrol side of things:doh:

[Eurodave]

its already silver, he is after the black frame.


I tell you guys what, if theres one thing Ive learnt from being in the trade, its that if a customer already has one thing usually he'll want the exact opposite to help him 'customise' his ride.It seems to be basic human nature. How many times have I made solo seats cause they dont want to take the mrs or a dual seat cause they do, a big tank cause the one hes got doesnt hold enough petrol, or a small tank cause the one hes got is too bulky, a half fairing cause it shows the motor better, a full fairing cause it works better or no fairing at all cause hes building yet another streetfighter,a short windscreen cause the one hes got buffets his head a taller windscreen cause the one hes got doesnt protect him enough. Its the same with finishing details, a round headlite cause its retro, projecter beams cause theyre in fashion this year,a silver frame cause his one is black, a black frame cause the current fashion is for silver. Ive seen it first hand time & time again.After a while, it all becomes almost predictable:whistle:Which is a good thing as it makes my job a lot easier in the long run:msn-wink:

[rasty]

If you are getting any coating done bear in mind that unless you specify low-temp powder, you are looking at 200deg C for a minimum of 9 minutes, usually about 12 when you take the safety factor we all allow for to make sure there has been a full cure. Occasionally, usually in alum. you get the metal reverting to pre-formed shape. I haven't heard of it happening on something like a frame though.

[skidMark]

:blip: :blip: you don't happen to do powdercoating for a job do you rasty ???:blip:

[SixPackBack]

And at what point are you effectively altering the heat treatment of your frame? Depending on what it is made from.
Some allys work harden, some (I imagine jap frames) require a heat treatment process.

Theoretically if you get it hot enough then you need to retreat it or it will be weaker. Maybe someone with a better grasp of metallurgy would correct of confirm this?
Aluminium Alloys come in Seven different compositions, some are heat treatable, some are not. The temperature needed for Precipitation hardening is in the region of 500-570 degree Celsius. As the frame is heated to approximately 100 degrees material properties stay largely unchanged.

[inlinefour]

just got back my '95 ZX6 frame from Rainbow Powder coaters in Albany, and for the tune of $145, my frame has been powder coated silver and lacquered over the top, and I must say, it is quite a top job. The frame was looking a bit tired, so I got it sand blasted then coated, and it looks like new now. But I've only done this, cos it's a new frame that was completely stripped and it's being rebuilt from the frame out. Else I don't know if I would have bothered. But, I just did a photoshop job on the 636, and I must say, it's a bit tempting..

Is it really worth stripping a bike completely to pieces just to coat the frame?

oh, I'll post photos of the frame as soon as I get home too, for those curious amongst us


Although I liked the before pic first. However, your bike, your choice. Nice bike either way buggy.:2thumbsup

[Joe Blogs]

Am i the only person who notised that it is the same photo? just different coloured frame?

[bugjuice]

i noticed that you can't spell.. :bleh:
ü bein serious?

[RiderInBlack]

I made a BBQ fork in metalwork at school and I powdercoated the handle white. It looked mint, but dont leave them on the barby too long cos they go brown... word of warning for those motorcyclists that go to bbq's with their bikes.So not good for Jappers at BEARS MC clubs then:whistle:

[marty]

Am i the only person who notised that it is the same photo? just different coloured frame?

some of us just read the text and noticed the 'photoshop' comment. that was a clue.

[Vegan]

Anyone had calipers done? - are there any issues with this - as oppposed to say - anodising?

[John]

Only problem I see is heat, get them heat coated - or use that model paint it seems to work well.

I am in the proccess of doing all mine - just removing rust and paint FUCK THIS RUST REMoVER FUCKS YOUR HANDS UP - MAKES YOU PUKE LIKE A WHORE TO.

does a good job but.

[Vegan]

That's why you wear a mask and gloves! :doh: :bleh:

[bugjuice]

and stop drinking it.. doesn't taste all that good to start with..

[Fishy]

We have an inhouse powdercoat plant at work and have done quite a few frames and wheels for mates in the past with really good results. If you need p/coating done PM me as I may be able to help out.

[classic zed]

I had the frame, swing arm, stands, fork yokes, forl legs, rear springs and loads of little brackets and things done for my Z1300, everything including the sand blasting cost me $285.
It looks brand new and so much easier than painting (in my opinion). They didnt want to do the calipers because of the heat, although calipers are subject to a fair bit of heat while working. All in all I am very pleased with the look, it also gave me the opportunity to replace the head and swing arm bearings and the fork oil while it was apart.:2thumbsup

[Fooman]

And at what point are you effectively altering the heat treatment of your frame? Depending on what it is made from.
Some allys work harden, some (I imagine jap frames) require a heat treatment process.

Theoretically if you get it hot enough then you need to retreat it or it will be weaker. Maybe someone with a better grasp of metallurgy would correct of confirm this?

A guy at work actually asked me this a few weeks ago. He was curious about his wheels being powder-coated and would they be alright. My answer went something like this.

It all depends on the alloy and how much alloy content is in it. For example, 2024 (Al4.5Cu1Mg - used in aircraft since the 50's) reaches the same strength after solution heat treatment (495°C ± 3°C for a time depending on the size and then a quench) at a week at room temperature (T3 treatment) or 8-16h at 180°C (T6 treatment). If it gets above 200-220°C for an hour it has the same strength, but its ductility drops signficantly - known as overaged. Any hotter or longer and its strength drops too. The properties can be recovered by re-solution treating it and aging it.

7005, Al-Zn-Mg, has a solution treatment temperature of 400°C, and a combination of aging at room temp and 100+150°C artficial aging for 8+16h.

If you remember the doco on the Britten (or have it on DVD) the bit where JB dunks the engine into a bucket of water out of the oven - he's trying to solution heat treat it and then quench - He starts getting into a panic when the water all boils off - that means the alloying elements will come out of solution too quickly and the aging won't increase the strength.

With heat treatments, especially at the highest useful alloy contents (more alloy elements = more strengthening precipiates = stronger alloy, up to a given point), you have to very careful with the solution heat treatment - there is very small gap between dissolving all the alloying elements back into the aluminium phase and actually starting to melt the alloy at the grain boundaries - if that happens, the component is scrap.

If the powder coating proccess uses relatively low temperatures and short times, then the strength shouldn't be affected. I wouldn't like to do anything above 100-120°C without knowing what alloy you were dealing with. 5000 series are fine, as they are not heat treatable, neither are Al-Si (4000, 4xx.x) series). But they tend to have a lower strength.

All this shouldn't be confused with stress relief/recrystallisation or annealing, which helps remove any effects of welding, cold work or work hardening on the alloy.

You can ask me more at the next bucket meeting in kaitoke or wherever, if

- Weather, wife and the new kid are willing, and
- You work out who I am... :msn-wink:

Cheers,
FM

[rudolph]

At work I take at least 3 frames or bike parts to the powercoaters a month.

NEVER EVER let them dip the frame in the stripper what ever you do. allways get it blasted and a coat of PA10.:spudbooge

[RiderInBlack]

At work I take at least 3 frames or bike parts to the powercoaters a month.

NEVER EVER let them dip the frame in the stripper what ever you do. allways get it blasted and a coat of PA10.:spudboogeYou must be talking Steel frames then not Alloy. Didn't think PA10 worked well on Alloy:spudwhat:

[willy_01]

can i ask why not use stripper on the frame? ive got a steel frame that has been painted very very poorly and im keen to rectify. So if you want to powder coat you have to strip the bike completely bare?? another question is there any product you can use to rust proof a polished steel frame, ie clear coat or is this just a stupid idea?

[Sketchy_Racer]

hey willy.... are you talking about your rg250??? if i remember correctly they are alloy arent they?? I stand to be corrected.

[Pixie]

can i ask why not use stripper on the frame? ive got a steel frame that has been painted very very poorly and im keen to rectify. So if you want to powder coat you have to strip the bike completely bare?? another question is there any product you can use to rust proof a polished steel frame, ie clear coat or is this just a stupid idea?
Por15 Gisten PC
www.por15.co.nz

[imdying]

Anyone had calipers done? - are there any issues with this - as oppposed to say - anodising?Powdercoat is excellent for calipers, it's a great finish, and brake dust wipes right off.

[Keeper]

Hi,

Powdercoating one set of my wheels had an amazing effect, I painted the frame and fairings/tank but the effect wasn't as good and there is so much contact/rubbing on the frame it is coming off too easy

My ZX6 teardown took 3 days, and the rebuild another week, once I had all the parts back, which took 2 months almost.

Can someone go into more on the caliper powdercoating, how do you stop the interior of the calipers from being coated over and how does it hold up against heat?

I don't want to flood this thread with photos so below you will find;

Bike before teardown (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/me-at-the-race-track.jpg)
Crap condition of frame before (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/PHOT0005.jpg)
Stripped (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/PHOT0030.jpg)
Frame and shocks only (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/frameonly1.jpg)
Coated wheel (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/DSC00306small.jpg)
Painted frame (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/PHOT0007small.jpg)
Almost assembled (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/DSC00301small.jpg)
New shift light LED, its 14,000mcd, can't miss it if you want toot now (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/DSC00307small.jpg)
Finished (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/DSC00136compressed.jpg)

Feel free to ask any questions I can help tons if needed, made some tools up to do some bits here and there, also uses kawiforums.com a lot

Side note, my bike came out with the silver frame, the black frame is easiest way to tell the 04's

[skidMark]

where did you get the tank coated it's all glittery and shiny :woohoo:

[Keeper]

its just the paint, everything silver is like it, im going to sand it back when i get back to aust and repaint candy red over gold base

Sparkles! (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a345/KeeperDave/ZX6%20Rebuild/DSC00132.jpg)

[bugjuice]

hey, good to see ya back Keeper..

I've got some 'before', 'during' and 'finished' shots of the frame. I'll post them up soon, give you an idea of what I've done so far..

[imdying]

Just ask the powdercoater not to coat the inside of the calipers, I've seen heaps done and they've naught buggered it up yet :) They'll have bungs for the bleeder and line holes though.

[Keeper]

anyone look into the heat stuffing the temper of the frame at all?

[Slingshot]

Does anyone know what colours you can power coat in?

[bugjuice]

pick one..
when I asked to have my frame done, was asked what colour. I said silver. He said; 'great, narrows it down to 47 shades then..'

[Keeper]

its like a rainbow of metalics, glosses etc. you can pick from