Non Jap Bikes - pros and cons

[Mattyc]

was at the lights at the top of nelson st today, there was a chap on a nice looking new yellow triumph daytona. at first i was really impressed about how the bike looked , until i looked down to see a tiny set of non USD forks , and only 4 pot calipers, WTF is up with that

didnt conventional forks go out a while back??, (my dad is english) but personally i dont like english machinery, to raw and behind the times IMHO

I accidently pulled a wheelie down nelson beside him (whoops)

Another example is a mate used to have a triumph daytona super 3 (came with CF pipes etc) but i remember it was a 1999 or close and only had 110hp at the back wheel - thats pus if you ask me

Now im not bashing triumphs , but just confused why anyone would buy a bike with old technology ??

[In The Breeze]

I would definately own an old "classic" bike for sure. Love the old Dook's and Guz's from the mid late 70s. All Id need would be a bugger load of $$$ for the maintenace though. Well worth it for a cruiser IMHO tho. In saying that I'd need to have a late model beast too for blown my cobwebs out

[Eurodave]

Real road riders dont need over 100 horsepower to have fun!!

[SimJen]

check out the new Daytona 675 it looks mean and up to date. Probably not as quick as something similar and Jap but its all down to taste.
I mean your ZX9R is not exactly up to date anymore?

[Sniper]

Same as someone owning a merc IMHO. It gives you status among some and scorn amongst others.

[skelstar]

Horsepower and forks are only a small part of the equation. I would buy one because I think it looks farking awesome...its a triple, gets great reviews. Lets face it - you would have to be a great rider to get all the performance out of a bike like that in the twisties (I reckon). Straightline stuff aint that hard.

[James Deuce]

The Daytona's suspension is sweet! USD forks only come ito their own under heavy braking whilst steering into a corner - on the racetrack. One of the strengths of the Triumph range is using technology a tenth of a step behind everyone else and making it work really well, thanks to the wealth of information available. The bigger manufacturers tend to cycle through technology upgrades quickly, particularly in the sporting sector, and probably only get 90% out of a piece of technology before moving onto the next great thing.

[skelstar]

One of the strengths of the Triumph range is using technology a tenth of a step behind everyone else and making it work really well, thanks to the wealth of information available.
Reminds me of the car mechanic who, while working on a 1985 Honda CRX, told me that you should never buy a vehicle that is the first to adopt a technology. He was pit deep in a poorly designed fuel-injection system. I ignored his advice and bought a GT Turbo Cordia and paid for it BIG TIME!!!

[Mattyc]

I mean your ZX9R is not exactly up to date anymore?

LOL yeah, but its 10 years old, and i dont claim it to be up to date, thing is it has USD forks and 4 pots , stops well.. the thing is this triumph i saw this morning has even older technology and its brand new !! lol

[Eurodave]

Personally, Im not a slave to fashion, USD forks are just a passing fad, same as,a few years ago,16" wheels were. 4 pot calipers will get replaced sooner or later with something 'better' & newer to appeal to those with too much money & not enough sense or race bike inspired followers of fashion.
Anyway the speed limit is now rigidly enforced so what the hell is the point of owning a road bike that can exceed 100 kph in first gear???
Cruisers are starting to make A LOT of sense to me now.

[TLDV8]

What modern performance bike doesn't have 4 piston calipers ?

[Motu]

I'd LOVE a non Jap bike with old technology - a Ural,maybe a Chiang Jiang...an Indian Enfield for the wife,she's really like one of them.

[Mattyc]

Personally, Im not a slave to fashion, USD forks are just a passing fad, same as,a few years ago,16" wheels were. 4 pot calipers will get replaced sooner or later

a passing fad huh, a long fad...... 6 pots seem to be more the standard on late model bikes now, rather than 4 pots

I know for sure that under braking, my usd forks dont flex back under hard braking (which i do a lot) like conventionals used to on my older bikes ive owned. I wouldnt be without them on my MX bike..

[limbimtimwim]

was at the lights at the top of nelson st today, there was a chap on a nice looking new yellow triumph daytona. at first i was really impressed about how the bike looked , until i looked down to see a tiny set of non USD forks , and only 4 pot calipers, WTF is up with thatThe Daytona has a rep for very sweet handing. The fireblade survived for years on RWUs as well.

[TLDV8]

6 pots seem to be more the standard on late model bikes now, rather than 4 pots

Name one ?........near all japanese sport bikes have 4 piston radial's including the 200 HP ZZR1400.

[WINJA]

it all depends on what your into , that 955 might only make 110 hp or whatever but it makes it differently to a jap 4 , its a nice bike nice to ride and has a beuatiful sound , it might not have usd forks or radial mount brakes but a lot of that stuff is not neccesary for everyday riding , 95% of us cant use a 955 trumpy to its limit but you wanna see someone who can ,and fuck it sounded great thundering thru scenic drive getting sideways , they tend to hold their value better than a japper as well

[Finn]

Matty that's fighting talk.

There's so much more to biking than technology alone. So when you're laying in your hospital bed in traction wondering why, with all this technology, did I arse it doing a wheelie down Nelson St, spare a thought for the chap riding his Triumph with a smile on his face, quite content with his non USD forks and 4 pot calipers.

If biking were about technology, imagine what I would think of your bike if I pulled up beside you. :killingme

[Devil]

Matty. I've just moved your bike, its on its side. It was looking at my Triumph funny. :blip:

4 pot brakes? we're talking about a bike (using the daytona 600, 650, speed four as an example) that is 165-170kg dry. Stopping is not a problem I assure you!

[Mattyc]

Name one ?........near all japanese sport bikes have 4 piston radial's including the 200 HP ZZR1400.

lol a 97 zx9 has 6 pots , 2003 gixxer 1k has 6 pots - thats two buddeeeeeeee

Devil - i was referring to the brand new fully faired yellow Triumph i saw this morn, a 900 id say. for the way the bike looked (very aggressive) i was gutted to see tiny forks and the same brakes as your 600..

The ZX9 is used to being on its side, well ..... leaned over hard anyhoo

lol this is a real can of worms. good stuff, should make my day go faster

[Eurodave]

200 HP ZZR1400.


Who needs 200 hp in a ROAD bike? Not me thats for sure. I value my licence & the freedom it imbues way too much!! I dont subscribe to the "Mines bigger, better ,faster ,got more HP than yours" school of thought ,and anyway,I get tons of smiles per mile riding my collection of dinosaurs.

[Devil]

it all depends on what your into , that 955 might only make 110 hp or whatever but it makes it differently to a jap 4 , its a nice bike nice to ride and has a beuatiful sound , it might not have usd forks or radial mount brakes but a lot of that stuff is not neccesary for everyday riding , 95% of us cant use a 955 trumpy to its limit but you wanna see someone who can ,and fuck it sounded great thundering thru scenic drive getting sideways , they tend to hold their value better than a japper as well
Maaayte. A post I can read! (Careful, you sound almost sensible in lower case!).

As above, most Triumphs dont fit in the super-sport category, they sit back a bit, and they do what they do very well. Speed with comfort, power with control.

[Devil]

Devil - i was referring to the brand new fully faired yellow Triumph i saw this morn, a 900 id say. for the way the bike looked (very aggressive) i was gutted to see tiny forks and the same brakes as your 600..
Are you sure it was a 900? Not a daytona 650? Which still looks new...

When it comes to the 955i Daytona, its totally due for an upgrade however.

[Mattyc]

Matty that's fighting talk.

If biking were about technology, imagine what I would think of your bike if I pulled up beside you. :killingme

:bleh: :bleh: :bleh:

But this thread is not about my bike,

Devil - was Brand spanker , was a really nice looker, really nice, will have a look on google and see if i can find it

[Devil]

:bleh: :bleh: :bleh:

But this thread is not about my bike, its about over priced and under developed english machinery
Ridden one?

[TLDV8]

lol a 97 zx9 has 6 pots , 2003 gixxer 1k has 6 pots - thats two buddeeeeeeee



A 1997 ZX9 is not modern.The 2001/2002 GSXR1000 was the last year for 6 piston calipers...03/04/05/06 have 4 piston radials......no modern sportbike has 6 pistons including Euro bikes,i seem to remember Triumph being the only one to have used a 6 piston caliper and then dropped them going back to 4 pistons,the point being they are old news,more wasn't better.A lot of the advances now are in the radial master cylinders.
>
People get caught up in all the hype..take a ride on a 25 +year old Euro bike with twin piston Brembo's on cast iron discs.They will compete with modern braking,you just have to apply more pressure.Go to a 5/8 MC and they are even better.I'm sure a few here are familiar with single piston brake calipers on stainless steel discs from years gone by.

[Mattyc]

yip, my mates daytona super 3 - with the CF pipes etc, went ok, but didnt have much turn in, really had to prepare for high speed corners

[Finn]

:bleh: :bleh: :bleh:

But this thread is not about my bike,

Devil - was Brand spanker, wasnt a 6

Well it is now. :yeah:

[Devil]

yip, my mates daytona super 3 - with the CF pipes etc, went ok, but didnt have much turn in, really had to prepare for high speed corners
I dont know what a super 3 is :slap:

[Devil]

Well it is now. :yeah:
Haha! Attaaaaaack!

[Mattyc]

Well it is now. :yeah:

ROFL!!! haha

EDIT : Keep it coming - this is making the day go faster

[DMNTD]

Who needs 200 hp in a ROAD bike? Not me thats for sure. I value my licence & the freedom it imbues way too much!! I dont subscribe to the "Mines bigger, better ,faster ,got more HP than yours" school of thought ,and anyway,I get tons of smiles per mile riding my collection of dinosaurs.
Awesome! I look forward to the day that I too can have some style parked in my garage but until then I likey what I see:yes:

[TLDV8]

Who needs 200 hp in a ROAD bike? Not me thats for sure. I value my licence & the freedom it imbues way too much!! I dont subscribe to the "Mines bigger, better ,faster ,got more HP than yours" school of thought ,and anyway,I get tons of smiles per mile riding my collection of dinosaurs.

My point was how could it stop with "puny" 4 piston calipers.... over 22 years of owning Euro "dinosaurs" for me..I was wondering how a detuned TL engine in a SD900 chassis would go :2thumbsup.
>
>
Bottomline is i like Japanese bikes for what they are,same with Euro bikes.The Europeans have shown many times over the years,you don't always need big anything.......Look at the first Ducati 916 back in 94..104 RWHP and 4 piston Brembo's,it spanked a lot of bikes using the less is more principle simply because it was a balanced package.

[jim.cox]

"but just confused why anyone would buy a bike with old technology"

I did buy a bike with old technology

Mostly 'cos I'm a luddite.

I like a bike that's simple - like me

And I like large capacity air-cooled V-twins for the way they go.

(although it didn't figure in the purchase - cos I aint going to sell it - I expect that mine will have the better resale value)

just my $0.02

=mjc=
.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Who needs 200 hp in a ROAD bike? Not me thats for sure. I value my licence & the freedom it imbues way too much!! I dont subscribe to the "Mines bigger, better ,faster ,got more HP than yours" school of thought ,and anyway,I get tons of smiles per mile riding my collection of dinosaurs.


Im with you!


smiles per mile for me is the CB400F!

I cant decide what big bike to get, but I know I want comfortable, light, adequate power, readily available bits etc. its about how it rides, not about how many gee gaws it has.

I am an avid reader about this sort of technology, but iI dont want to own it.

One of the reasons I am leaning towards a Buell or Triumph Bonneville right now....

[Mooch]

I think a couple of older technology Triumphs did well at IOM last year, the riders must have been so embarrassed.:confused:

All joking aside, It's what your into that counts, not necessarily the sum of parts. I brought a Duc when I could have had GSXR k2 , R1 etc and some change. A few years on I'm still happy with the DUC which was basically designed and styled in 1993, I may even keep it forever like those Guzzi owners seem to do, they must be on to a good thing. I don't need a 200 hp bike , don't even need a 100 hp bike so 8 piston centra-radial break callipers big stoppers don't do it for me , brakes it has now seem to be up to the job. (Don't actually use brakes much :blink: )

[HenryDorsetCase]

.I'm sure a few here are familiar with single piston brake calipers on stainless steel discs from years gone by.

squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

you've ridden a CB400/500/550/650/750 then ??? :)

[Eurodave]

Most of the appeal of my collection of 'old outdated junk' IS the simplicity that older bikes have.Really, you dont NEED quadruple overhead cams,5 valves per cylinder & a mega computer to control the whole shebang:Pokey: And my old fashioned 2 pot Brembos stop me just fine thankyou very much
I can do ALL my own maintainance on ALL of my bikes & dont need a Degree in Rocket Science & shares in a ANZ Bank to be able to fix things should they ever go wrong:cool:

[skelstar]

So who are the other two people that want a Hyosung? :)

No offence taken.

[WRT]

I bought the RSV-R cause its got MORE power than the jappa v-twins, its got the handling that the jappa's should have had, it looks the biz, and its not as common as most of the other bikes out there.

Maybe if the TLR was still in production and they had managed to get a bit more poke and a bit less weight, with better handling and a face lift, I might have bought another one of them instead . . . maybe.

But they dont still make it, and I have no regrets on choosing an Italian bike (yet!). Well, two maybe - it makes me walk like John Wayne after riding it for more than a couple of hours, and the mirrors are crap. But these are common complaints across a wide range of sports bikes.

At the end of the day, its all down to personal choice. Some people like jappas, some like euros, some like hogs. But to only like one type of bike is very close minded in my opinion, and to sit back and slag everyone that doesnt agree with what you think makes the ideal bike is just immature. Just get out there and ride, doesnt matter if it is a guzzi, a beemer, or the latest gixxer.

Well, so long as it isnt a scooter, they're just ghey. ;)

[Mattyc]

Well, so long as it isnt a scooter, they're just ghey. ;)


LOL - i used to think that too

[Lou Girardin]

If the guy on the 'old' tech Triple knows what he's doing, he'll be exiting a tight corner before you can get that 'modern' ZX9 to consider turning.
Technology is mainly for wanking rights.

[T.W.R]

it doesn't matter how current the technology is with a bike even today 15/12/05 its all been here before, what we have today is only a refinement of whats already been done.<_<
Older bikes be it european or jap have more character especially european bikes, it used to be the "spend as much time maintaining as you do riding" with the older Dukes, Guzzis, & laverdas but it was worth it!:headbang: when a big old Itlian bike is on song its an experience a jappa just can't compete with!:rolleyes:
Current bikes have developed tenfold over the years but that refinement has diluted their character

[Eurodave]

Current bikes have developed tenfold over the years but that refinement has diluted their character


Yeah, what ever happened to that elusive thing called 'character'? I know my Guzzis have it in spades, I am especially reminded of this when I used to get stuck with mysteriously blown fuses :slap: but at least I CAN fix it on the side of the road,at night, in the pissing rain with no tools unlike the more modern sanatised, deodorised appliances where if someting goes wrong its a case of 'on the cellphone for help, come get me'

[Test Pilot]

Love ma japas, the price is so good compared with a ducati or aprilia yet you get the same perfromance and goodies. Although the styling of some of those ducs are what you pay for. But still for 11g you can have a 2004 japa or a 1997 duc so i know what id rather have

[**R1**]

a passing fad huh, a long fad...... 6 pots seem to be more the standard on late model bikes now, rather than 4 pots

I know for sure that under braking, my usd forks dont flex back under hard braking (which i do a lot) like conventionals used to on my older bikes ive owned. I wouldnt be without them on my MX bike..6 pots aint all they are cracked up to be, I know 2 guys that have ditched the 6 pots off their GSXR's and gone to the 4 pots of the 750's, and would never go back....

[tracyprier]

Real road riders dont need over 100 horsepower to have fun!!

Absolutely mate! real riders don't need to play the numbers game :)

[**R1**]

If the guy on the 'old' tech Triple knows what he's doing, he'll be exiting a tight corner before you can get that 'modern' ZX9 to consider turning.
Technology is mainly for wanking rights.

Fuck off it is, you cant sit there and tell me I will do the same lap times on a 1990 gsxr as i will on a 2005 gsxr...technology is there to make going fast easy and comfortable, an old 2 stroke tripple may have simmilar power to some modern bikes and even with a good rider may beat some modern bikes, but the guy riding will be sweating like a rapist at the end.. and the guy with his "wanky" modern techo bike wouldnt have even broken a sweat...but thats just my opinion coz I own a wanky techy japo

[James Deuce]

a passing fad huh, a long fad...... 6 pots seem to be more the standard on late model bikes now, rather than 4 pots


Errr NOT - 4 pot radial mounted calipers are the current fad.

[Mattyc]

Errr NOT - 4 pot radial mounted calipers are the current fad.


Jim that was out of context - i was referring to the forks

[T.W.R]

modern jappas are amazing machines as are the european bikes but their all sanitised narrow niche designs. the UJM bike isn't an easily spotted thing these days.
go back 25-30yrs bikes were jack of all trades & the big italians had an enigma to them, the big sods came alive when they were used properly & thats whats holds to the current european bikes.
i remember taking my missus to hanmer on my laverda & striking problems at red post corner, got to hanmer checked it over, road back to CHCH two-up at mostly 120kmh. took it into the shop on the monday found it had destroyed its rings completely! yet it still ran & had got us home, I'd love to see a modern jappa do that!

[Lou Girardin]

Fuck off it is, you cant sit there and tell me I will do the same lap times on a 1990 gsxr as i will on a 2005 gsxr..

Actually I didn't. Like to read my post again?

[**R1**]

Absolutely mate! real riders don't need to play the numbers game :)real riders ride rather than talking about it, and tell me wots wrong with a 1000cc bike? I ride it on the road and play on it at the track, should i have got a 150cc??? some how i think my thou would last longer...and dont we all enjoy differnt aspects of riding? power, torque, handling, touring, racing, stunting, commuting, or just coz we like to look at them....just my opinion, if i had to ride a lil wee bike i wouldnt bother...I know first hand i have more fun on my 1000 than i do on my 250

[**R1**]

Actually I didn't. Like to read my post again?you recon new school stuff is for wanking rights, i disagree, what would you like me to read again??

[Eurodave]

real riders ride rather than talking about it, and tell me wots wrong with a 1000cc bike? I ride it on the road and play on it at the track, should i have got a 150cc??? some how i think my thou would last longer...and dont we all enjoy differnt aspects of riding? power, torque, handling, touring, racing, stunting, commuting, or just coz we like to look at them....just my opinion, if i had to ride a lil wee bike i wouldnt bother...I know first hand i have more fun on my 1000 than i do on my 250


Actually, the point Tracyprier & I were trying to make is that you dont NEED 100+ horsepower [we werent refering to cc ratings]to have fun on a road bike

[**R1**]

Actually, the point Tracyprier & I were trying to make is that you dont NEED 100+ horsepower [we werent refering to cc ratings]to have fun on a road bikeok then just for you i will rephrase it, I have more fun on my modern 150hp bike than i do on my old 50hp bike, the point i was tring to make is we are all differnt and if what your saying was true "real riders" like V rossi etc would win on old shitters??

[st3]

Once I decided to buy a ride bike I initially had no preconceptions of make or model – I wanted something that I would hold onto and would take me places (long rides) Coming back to riding and with not much experience in road bikes I tried a number of sport and touring bikes. After a few weeks I knew wanted something that was more comfortable than a sport bike and easy to ride - not too scary.

Once I started on the Triumph range there was no turning back – the ST (speed triple) is tolerant of my limited ability and it always feels controllable especially though the bends. It has a good look (IMHO) and has good reviews. It is not as “snappy” as some jap bikes but the smooth power through the range is an awesome feeling. The motor is “noisy” at idle in comparison to the jap bikes, but the pipe tune is yummy. The front suspension is a bit crap at low speed under brakes but smooth at speed. The back brakes are a bit gutless but ok.

In the final analysis however the ST is for me – something I can enjoy riding and be proud of. One thing I have noticed being a new Triumph owner is I get a lot more recognition on the streets and I have now also been a lot more exposed to numerous polarised views on this topic. I think that it is a debate will never be resolved as there are so many personal considerations when picking a bike.
* What do I think of Jap bikes? They are cool too.
* Will I ever own a jap road bike? Probably not - but always when it comes to the dirt.
* What do I think of people who start a sentence with "real riders..."? Here comes some trivel
* Do I always answer my own questions?...

[SimJen]

I think a couple of older technology Triumphs did well at IOM last year, the riders must have been so embarrassed.:confused:

The TT is a good leveller, super fast twitchy bikes are difficult to ride on bumpy basically country roads. The Triumphs seemed to have quite soft suspension and coped well, along with a rider with huge gonads it worked out well.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fuck off it is, you cant sit there and tell me I will do the same lap times on a 1990 gsxr as i will on a 2005 gsxr...technology is there to make going fast easy and comfortable, an old 2 stroke tripple may have simmilar power to some modern bikes and even with a good rider may beat some modern bikes, but the guy riding will be sweating like a rapist at the end.. and the guy with his "wanky" modern techo bike wouldnt have even broken a sweat...but thats just my opinion coz I own a wanky techy japo


WRONG WRONG WRONG. in fact the wrongness of that rant is encapsulated in the phrase "lap times"

Some of us couldnt give a flying fuck what lap times our bikes do, so long as we have a good time riding them (out for coffee, out to the shops, on holiday, cos its a nice day.... get my drift).

since when waa ANY GSXR "comfortable"? unless by "comfortable" you mean "uncomfortable" :eek5: ?

bah humbug

[warewolf]

Your post is somewhat flame-bait, but in order to make your day go faster, here's my 2c :yawn:


was at the lights at the top of nelson st today, there was a chap on a nice looking new yellow triumph daytona. at first i was really impressed about how the bike looked , until i looked down to see a tiny set of non USD forks , and only 4 pot calipers, WTF is up with that
Many reviewers commented that the Triumph 4 potters felt as good and stopped as well as the then-current trendy 6 potters, and agreed with Triumphs decision to avoid technology for technology's sake. And what are we seeing lately? 6-potters are considered "old tech" in favour of this week's hot item, 4-pot radials.


didnt conventional forks go out a while back??
Out where? They still work. See lots of them on bikes everywhere?! Front ends 'round the world didn't suddenly collapse because USDs arrived. :rofl:


Another example is a mate used to have a triumph daytona super 3 (came with CF pipes etc) but i remember it was a 1999 or close and only had 110hp at the back wheel - thats pus if you ask me
The Super III was a hotted-up version of a 1989 bike (which had conservative engineering from a new manufacturer with a famous name). Nothing significant changed in the engine/chassis department for the T3 models from first release back then through to when the last models were finally discontinued last year. But at the time of release, the Super III was *the* meanest Trumpy... who cares about the actual numbers, this was the Triumph with the best numbers...kewl!


but just confused why anyone would buy a bike with old technology ??
'Cos the whole is more than the sum of the parts?

'Cos today's new technology is tomorrow's belly-laff?

'Cos homo-sapiens and the laws of physics simply don't change so fast that old technology ceases to function effectively?

'Cos new technology is not always better, particularly v1.0?

'Cos maybe the technology was bought when it *was* new, and there is no compelling reason to get rid of it?

btw the Japs are rarely technology leaders; they tend to popularise European innovations.

[Lou Girardin]

you recon new school stuff is for wanking rights, i disagree, what would you like me to read again??

Just the part you alleged I said will do.

[**R1**]

WRONG WRONG WRONG. in fact the wrongness of that rant is encapsulated in the phrase "lap times"

Some of us couldnt give a flying fuck what lap times our bikes do, so long as we have a good time riding them (out for coffee, out to the shops, on holiday, cos its a nice day.... get my drift).

since when waa ANY GSXR "comfortable"? unless by "comfortable" you mean "uncomfortable" :eek5: ?

bah humbugI could be wrong but i thought this thread was about japo sporty bikes v's non japo sporty bikes, pros and cons, and the technology gap etc? my opinion(not rant) was that there is no way an old bike is compareable(techy wise) to a new one..if im wrong then fine, and if you read one of my other posts in this thread you would see that i said people buy bikes for diff reasons, and by comfortable i mean at speed, ie: I would be more "comfortable" at 250kph on a 2005 model GSXR than on a 1985 GSXR..

is that a bit cleara for ya??

[James Deuce]

Jim that was out of context - i was referring to the forks
Ooooo

The forks aren't old tech. They are a modern iteration of "right way up " forks. There's nothing wrong with them at all, and for compliance and damping action, they will beat the old tech upside downies on your bike.

That better?

[tracyprier]

real riders ride rather than talking about it, and tell me wots wrong with a 1000cc bike? I ride it on the road and play on it at the track, should i have got a 150cc??? some how i think my thou would last longer...and dont we all enjoy differnt aspects of riding? power, torque, handling, touring, racing, stunting, commuting, or just coz we like to look at them....just my opinion, if i had to ride a lil wee bike i wouldnt bother...I know first hand i have more fun on my 1000 than i do on my 250

Errr, nothings wrong with 1000cc bikes... mines an 1100cc so I don't know what you're on about. Also it's only possible to talk on the internet, I save my bike riding for the real world.

I take the view that some others have in this thread that on the road (NOT the track) what real use is 200hp in a bike? Same reason why owning a Lambo over here is nothing more than a status symbol. There is nowhere in NZ that a car like that can really feel it's oats and the same applies for bikes what with the whole speed camera thing.

Hell, do Auckland to Taupo like people used to in the 80's and you've lost your licence by the time you get there nowadays....or damn near lost it.

Of course we all enjoy different aspects of biking and to each their own, I was just expressing my opinion on the subject.

[**R1**]

Just the part you alleged I said will do.Ok you have to excuse me Im a bit slow due to all this wanky technology confusing my small sportbike rider brain..yes your right you didnt say a thing about lap times...but you did say technology was just for "wanking rights" thats a pretty arrogant statement.. IMHO

[Mattyc]

this is Great!! my day is going so fast now !! nice work

[tracyprier]

ok then just for you i will rephrase it, I have more fun on my modern 150hp bike than i do on my old 50hp bike, the point i was tring to make is we are all differnt and if what your saying was true "real riders" like V rossi etc would win on old shitters??

Mate you would be SURPRISED at how well The Doctor would do on an old shitter.

What do they say, "in F1 it's 20% driver 80% car, in MotoGP it's the other way 'round"

There is more to biking than horsepower.

[Mattyc]

lol @ flame bait - i think i had too much coffee this morning when i posted this

[James Deuce]

lol @ flame bait - i think i had too much coffee this morning when i posted this

I used that to make a Christmas card for my last boss. He was touched until he opened it.

Now THAT made my whole F__king year

[**R1**]

Errr, nothings wrong with 1000cc bikes... mines an 1100cc so I don't know what you're on about. Also it's only possible to talk on the internet, I save my bike riding for the real world.

I take the view that some others have in this thread that on the road (NOT the track) what real use is 200hp in a bike? Same reason why owning a Lambo over here is nothing more than a status symbol. There is nowhere in NZ that a car like that can really feel it's oats and the same applies for bikes what with the whole speed camera thing.

Hell, do Auckland to Taupo like people used to in the 80's and you've lost your licence by the time you get there nowadays....or damn near lost it.

Of course we all enjoy different aspects of biking and to each their own, I was just expressing my opinion on the subject.yeah sorry i was more talking about power than cc, but im kind of sick about hearing about this "real world" riding, I ride my 150hp bike the way it was intended to be riden...am i not livivng in the real world? what fucken world am i living in? sure to each his own, but why duz the fact that I brake the law when i ride my bike make me not a real world biker? I know that riders like my self are a minority, but why must all the bikers that want to ride their bikes the way they would a car, ram it down my throat?

[James Deuce]

(snip)I know that riders like my self are a minority, but why must all the bikers that want to ride their bikes the way they would a car, ram it down my throat?

Lol, like the way you're ramming your world view down everyone else's?

Mate - leave work early and go for a ride. ;)

[**R1**]

Mate you would be SURPRISED at how well The Doctor would do on an old shitter.

What do they say, "in F1 it's 20% driver 80% car, in MotoGP it's the other way 'round"

There is more to biking than horsepower.sure the guy is a telented rider no doubt, but given a 1990 gp 500 he would win? dont think so!!! if technology wasnt all it was cracked up to be why would they bother? would you go back to a horse and cart?

[**R1**]

Lol, like the way you're ramming your world view down everyone else's?

Mate - leave work early and go for a ride. ;)

Am I??:Oops:

Just sick of hearing about "real riders" and how fast, smooth, whatever, they are on their antiquated heaps of shit... I'm convinced technology helps and dont quite get how anyone can disagree, im not saying hang up ya old keys and buy a state of the art sports bike, im just saying modern technoligy improves braking, handling power etc, and coupled together this would help with a riders confidence etc?

[James Deuce]

Am I??:Oops:

Just sick of hearing about "real riders" and how fast, smooth, whatever, they are on their antiquated heaps of shit... I'm convinced technology helps and dont quite get how anyone can disagree, im not saying hang up ya old keys and buy a state of the art sports bike, im just saying modern technoligy improves braking, handling power etc, and coupled together this would help with a riders confidence etc?

No worries fella. This time of year just seems make people a bit scratchy.

I know what you're saying. The brakes on the R6 are unreal compared to the CB, or the GSX600 I had before it, and it steers beautifully. The ride quality from the suspension on the boring transport bits to the twisty bits is amazing too.

Even if my 2004 R6 has old tech right way up forks. :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

maybe thats what you MEANT, but what you were perceived as saying was "anybody on a bike that isnt bleeding edge state of the art techno - ween isnt a "real" biker"

at least that is how I took it.

Im an UNREAL biker BTW, as in "see how slow that dude was: its unreal"?

[Eurodave]

All I can say is that if R1 rides the way he says he does with a 150hp bike on public roads soon there will be casualties, his licence ,then himself & probably some inoccent bystander/s as well
The vast majority of the public just cannot even comprehend the speed & acceleration a modern high horsepower bike is capable of, let alone make allowances for or even SEE one coming till its to late!!!.
If you want to ride well in excess of the speed limit & exercise the bike the way that it was built for, with all its hi tech ultra modern components & gagetry then..... TAKE IT TO THE TRACK because once there .......WHEN THE FLAG DROPS THE BULLSHIT STOPS!! there is where the differences in forks,brakes, handling etc are important & actually matter, not doing 100kph on a public road

[Brian d marge]

I'd LOVE a non Jap bike with old technology - a Ural,maybe a Chiang Jiang...an Indian Enfield for the wife,she's really like one of them.

I have said Enfield
they sure do have some good points, BUT they do require a certain mind set

they will sit all day at 55 mph and use sod all gas

oh and you can buy a whole clutch assembly new for 100 dollars

I bought another engine and wount be buying another road bike ( for my use ) ever again

Stephen

[WINJA]

Maaayte. A post I can read! (Careful, you sound almost sensible in lower case!).

As above, most Triumphs dont fit in the super-sport category, they sit back a bit, and they do what they do very well. Speed with comfort, power with control.
BEEN TRYING A DIFFERENT SCREEN EASIER TO READ , BUT NOT MUCH

[TONO]

[QUOTE=st3]Once I decided to buy a ride bike I initially had no preconceptions of make or model – I wanted something that I would hold onto and would take me places (long rides) Coming back to riding and with not much experience in road bikes I tried a number of sport and touring bikes. After a few weeks I knew wanted something that was more comfortable than a sport bike and easy to ride - not too scary.

Ride on!!! the same reasons I used to buy my bike, :cool: I just come up with a different answer:Oops: .....But we is both happy with what we got.:drinkup: Cheers

[Biff]

I'd rather ride a "modern", "wanky" machine that an older one. At least as a primary mode of motormacycling. My bike, in general, is more comfortable, powerful, economical and safer compared to 'older' machines (and the Bird is no spring chicken - pun intended). And all this thanks to technology.

But I like 'older' bikes for what they are. Sure some technology can be accused of being existence just for 'bling' value. But most of it isn't, and the 'bling' of today can quite easily become standard on most bikes tomrrow.

And let's put our handbags away here chaps and quit slagging other riders for having different opinions/riding styles than you eh.

We're an eclectic mix here, and we all have different views, and we're entitled to air them here. Even if you disagree with them.

[Lou Girardin]

Ok you have to excuse me Im a bit slow due to all this wanky technology confusing my small sportbike rider brain..yes your right you didnt say a thing about lap times...but you did say technology was just for "wanking rights" thats a pretty arrogant statement.. IMHO

Let me rephrase then. A few people like to use the new technology on their gee whiz bikes as a substitute for riding ability. You'll often hear debates about one bike having a poofteenth more hp than bike B. (as if it matters) Meanwhile the braggers bike has chicken strips 40mm wide. Much like the high tech, ultra sporty, state of the art sprotbike I'm looking at right now.

[jonbuoy]

Read some wright ups on the daytonas - one of the sweetest handling bikes and trumpet brakes have always been top notch.

Would love one of those re-engineered Nortons from the states or a new Retro Cafe racer from Ducati. Sexier than a room full of greased up super models.

Go the retros.

[**R1**]

Let me rephrase then. A few people like to use the new technology on their gee whiz bikes as a substitute for riding ability. You'll often hear debates about one bike having a poofteenth more hp than bike B. (as if it matters) Meanwhile the braggers bike has chicken strips 40mm wide. Much like the high tech, ultra sporty, state of the art sprotbike I'm looking at right now.whats wrong with substituting ability with technology? to my way of thinking ability is a skill for something you have learned, would you rather someone with very little ability went out on a 750 tripple and learned the hard way? if technology makes people on bikes safer im all for it!! are you not?


Imagine if you no longer had the "ability" to satisfy your wife, im sure you would be greatfull to the technology that bought us Viagra...or would you stick to old technology and use cucumber?? (PT)

[Motu]

I have said Enfield
they sure do have some good points, BUT they do require a certain mind set

they will sit all day at 55 mph and use sod all gas

oh and you can buy a whole clutch assembly new for 100 dollars

I bought another engine and wount be buying another road bike ( for my use ) ever again

Stephen

I'd say I had the mind set - I've had a hell of a lot of experiance with British singles,I had one bedroom in our house completely full of BSA single parts....because they wouldn't fit in the double garage,it was chokka full of bikes and other parts.My wife loves singles and when Her Speedtwin broke down I gave her my newly rebuilt BSA M20 to ride and run in for me...a new Enfield would be the ultimate bike for her.

[Eurodave]

You'll often hear debates about one bike having a poofteenth more hp than bike B. (as if it matters) Meanwhile the braggers bike has chicken strips 40mm wide. Much like the high tech, ultra sporty, state of the art sprotbike I'm looking at right now.


Theres a term for that. Its called bench racing, its where 2 or more combatants spout spec sheets at one another in a misguided effort to establish whos bike is 'better' & who's gonads are biggest .:weird: In my book bikes are for riding, not wanking over & polishing on Sundays:bleh:

[**R1**]

Theres a term for that. Its called bench racing, its where 2 or more combatants spout spec sheets at one another in a misguided effort to establish whos bike is 'better' & who's gonads are biggest .:weird: In my book bikes are for riding, not wanking over & polishing on Sundays:bleh:glad I didnt read "your book"
cant be much of a bike lover then...

I love wanking all over my bike and cleaning it on Sunday, the mess from Monday can be a bit hard to get off tho..

look i know what you are trying to say, and honestly any thing i have done to my bike to improve performance and handling has been done for me alone, and i also know the type of guys you are talking about, I just think those types of guys are better off on a bike that compensates for their riding short falls..

[Big Dave]

BEEN TRYING A DIFFERENT SCREEN EASIER TO READ , BUT NOT MUCH

persist - as I've said to you before - it's a lot harder for people to read all upper case - yea we ain't posting rocket science, but people comprehend it less and find it harder to read - and apart from that - you FORFEIT the ability to EMPHASIZE to enhance your posts - it's better communication.
Stick with it - UNDERSTAND?:blip:

[Big Dave]

Once I started on the Triumph range there was no turning back –


Bruddah! Just trying to place you - Welly RAT?

[Big Dave]

Nice work the thread starter.

Fits perfectly with a theory. Just a theory.

The litre Jap sports bike is a hi tech dinosaur.

Track day enthusiasts and racers are really the only people who can justify a machine that can achieve 250+ kph - in light of the fact that the government of the land specifies that the maximum speed limit is 100kph.

I say justify - not enjoy or covet or have some balls out fun on. But Speedmedic's countdown timer is testament to the price of utilising the potential of a sports 1000.
(Enough power to overtake while carrying a passenger and spirited riding notwithstanding.)

But the same technology that is being used to produce these hitech marvels is also being used to detect and punish you for fully utilising them.
It's a mugs game.

I ride my R1/Blade/ZX12/K5/ whatever and don't have any ticket trouble some will say - I say 'yet'.

If you look around to change lanes - the slight movement of your wrist can take you from 55 to 65 in the time it takes to turn back on a zx10. I have to concentrate really hard to keep it at the legal speeds when I jump on one of these rockets. And for sure wicking them up is a whole lot of fun - till you are running a countdown timer under your avatar and it's only going to get worse.

The police are only going to get more aggressive - the road toll is a major concern to those in power and whether we like it or not the FACT is they are going to get harder and harder on your arse if you go fast.

So I say screw the high tech dinosaur. I bought a new bike with pushrods and it's usable power at 2,500rpm, made it a naked, cause it feels much faster sooner and I now have a bike that's just as much fun to ride at 110 as a plastic shrouded missile at 210.

Riding around on the road and not being legally able to use two thirds of the bikes potential seems like a hitech waste to me. To that end the Daytona handles superbly at real world speeds and above anyway.

I'm happy to be selling Triumphs and Harleys - The next 5 years will be back to the past - big time. There's no future in 180 horsepower street machines. Jap or otherwise.

It's time for more with less.

[Brian d marge]

Here are 2 pictures . one is dead sexy, the other is my entry for next seasons Motogp
Dont worry to much if you are at a track day and this thing goes past , as long as you dont change your racing line you should be fine!!

Stephen

[Eurodave]

Here are 2 pictures . one is dead sexy, the other is my entry for next seasons Motogp
Dont worry to much if you are at a track day and this thing goes past , as long as you dont change your racing line you should be fine!!Stephen


Hell yeah, that is one slick looking Honda Dream!!!:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: those Nips & their 'customising'!!

[**R1**]

It's time for more with less. is that why there are so many GSXR's around?


If you look around to change lanes - the slight movement of your wrist can take you from 55 to 65 in the time it takes to turn back on a zx10. I have to concentrate really hard to keep it at the legal speeds it happens with age, dont worry about it.


The litre Jap sports bike is a hi tech dinosaur.

Track day enthusiasts and racers are really the only people who can justify a machine that can achieve 250+ kph .Thats me.

[Big Dave]

Thats me.

Arewonasauraus?
Yamadaktyl?

[Dammad]

bring back the good old bikes:niceone: :moon:

[HenryDorsetCase]

whats wrong with substituting ability with technology? to my way of thinking ability is a skill for something you have learned, would you rather someone with very little ability went out on a 750 tripple and learned the hard way? if technology makes people on bikes safer im all for it!! are you not?


Imagine if you no longer had the "ability" to satisfy your wife, im sure you would be greatfull to the technology that bought us Viagra...or would you stick to old technology and use cucumber?? (PT)

thats just fucking crass and stupid.

[**R1**]

thats just fucking crass and stupid.sorry did i touch on a nerve?? it's ok i want tell any1:psst:

[**R1**]

Arewonasauraus?
Yamadaktyl?whyzedefooorex

And with the seat the way it is

megasorarse

[Sensei]

The on going crying about Why my Old Pushrod bike is better & no one could ever ride a 200HP bike because I cann't . Fuck OFF !! Old bikes are Kool , ride them quite often but own a GSXR because it does everything that they dont' do ! . Have found over my short time time riding 33y's that the people that Cry the most about New bike's etc are the Type that think been Kool is having a Non Jap bike :brick: . I road more with Jap bike's when I owned my Triumph & Ducati's than with the same brand bikes as they where to Fucked to ride with any other bike . I would alway's go up to Jap rider's complement them on thier ride as Brand name / Age / & Type of bike's has nothing to do with it." IT'S A FUCKEN BIKE Ride it " !!! & this shit that ya have to go to a Track to prove how good you are :crybaby: > If ya have to do that then you have missed the Boat totally !!

[SixPackBack]

Who really gives a fuck where the bike is designed/manufactured?......me, I loves them all!

[ducatilover]

hmmmm mv agusta f4 1000 over any jap bike...... :blah:

[Lord Alster]

In my opinion the day after you buy something it's out of date so we're all always playing catch up. Just buy what you fancy and be happy with it until you see something that you fancy more AND can afford it. And of course everybodies different so it's only right that we should all ride different bikes. After all isn't one of the reasons we ride that we like to be individuals.

[Mattyc]

Good Posts people, this has been a really interesting thread, it may have bee a little flame baitish, but its good to see the different responses. I Personally really like some non Jap bikes - RSVR, Some Duc's, theres a couple of trumpys I like too, but for the money, ill be spending it on a Japa. Im a sprot bike person thru and thru, cant ever see myself on a cruiser (being a bugcatcher)

Personally my next bike will be another "Hi Tech Dinosaur" Japa for these three reasons

*cheap
*fast
*reliable

and I love Jap technology

[Lou Girardin]

whats wrong with substituting ability with technology?
if technology makes people on bikes safer im all for it!! are you not?


Imagine if you no longer had the "ability" to satisfy your wife, im sure you would be greatfull to the technology that bought us Viagra...or would you stick to old technology and use cucumber?? (PT)


Because if you don't have ability, that technology is going to get you into a pile of shit. That's why so many 'born agains' bin.
I doubt if bikes having power to weight ratios of 1.1hp - 1kg are quite that safe in the hands of someone relying on technology rather than ability.

PS have you not heard of electronics?

[Finn]

Let's kill it or it will NEVER end

Next one to post is a moron

[Big Dave]

Let's kill it or it will NEVER end

Next one to post is a moron

Not even close.

[**R1**]

Well been for a ride on my techno wizzy jappa and realised i dont realy care.....:whocares: keept me entertained for the day tho, cheers...

[Big Dave]

Well been for a ride on my techno wizzy jappa and realised i dont realy care.....:whocares: keept me entertained for the day tho, cheers...

My attitude too.
I'm interested in opinions and if someone has valid reasons to influence mine - great, lets hear 'em.
But fark taking it seriously like some have been lately.
Turn the computer off, leave the room and there is a whole, real world out there - nobody needs to 'log on' for angst.

[Biff]

..So I say screw the high tech dinosaur... .

Loads of logic in there BD - but I disagree somewhat with the wider generalisation both yourself and a few other peeps ('real world riders') have made. A common one IMO:

Advancement in technofrology isn't just about increses in BHP, acceleration etc, although it does play a significant part thanks to MOTO GP, and is prevalent in some modern 'stupid fast' (ZX10 being a perfect example) road bikes.

I for one never want to own a true sports bike again. I'm fed up with forfeiting comfort for power. But technology also improves safety (DCBS, Airbags (!!), electronic steering dampers etc), fuel consumption, ergonomics etc etc. And as such - I'll vote for a more technically advanced machine over an old machine as a primary motormacycle.

But I really do want an old skool machine to play with.

[sels1]

As above, most Triumphs dont fit in the super-sport category, they sit back a bit, and they do what they do very well. Speed with comfort, power with control.

And heritage and tradition...(and some would say class) ;)

For me its the comfort and the ability to do the job I want it to do.

Triumphs marketing phrase is "go your own way" and I think that is quite appropriate in this thread.....

[warewolf]

Loads of logic in there BD - but I disagree somewhat with the wider generalisation both yourself and a few other peeps ('real world riders') have made. A common one IMO:

Advancement in technofrology isn't just about increses in BHP, acceleration etc, although it does play a significant part thanks to MOTO GP, and is prevalent in some modern 'stupid fast' (ZX10 being a perfect example) road bikes.

I for one never want to own a true sports bike again. I'm fed up with forfeiting comfort for power. But technology also improves safety (DCBS, Airbags (!!), electronic steering dampers etc), fuel consumption, ergonomics etc etc. And as such - I'll vote for a more technically advanced machine over an old machine as a primary motormacycle.

What you say is quite right; technology improves bikes over time. But that doesn't mean that we all must have today's trendy new-fangled gizmo, and that yesterday's is useless.

I think you're confusing us with luddites, which we're not: witness Big Dave's new beastie which although not a Japper is bristling with technological innovation the likes of which the Japs simply don't do.

Bikes are very much about compromises (more easily observed outside the pure sports arena) and foregoing uber-tech for other priorities is a common decision. Harley has to be the obvious case in point here, at the extreme end of the scale.

Personally I have one of those "old tech" Triumphs. It is still in the stable because replacing it with something more modern would mean foregoing one of the other bikes. And the new version would only do the same thing a little better. The other bikes allow me to do completely different types of riding.

Would I refuse to buy one of the new bikes? Hell no. Do I feel compelled to rush out and buy the new model every year because it has newer technology? Equally, hell no.

I just luv riding...don't really care what, I just want to be ridin'.

[Big Dave]

I just luv riding...don't really care what, I just want to be ridin'.

Very fucking brown rice.
I trust you enjoyed taking on said theory online as much as in a drafty back corner of a cheeky little remuera friday night eatery?
feels like we went.
virtual red?

[tracyprier]

I'd say I had the mind set - I've had a hell of a lot of experiance with British singles,I had one bedroom in our house completely full of BSA single parts....because they wouldn't fit in the double garage,it was chokka full of bikes and other parts.My wife loves singles and when Her Speedtwin broke down I gave her my newly rebuilt BSA M20 to ride and run in for me...a new Enfield would be the ultimate bike for her.

Then have a squizz here: www.royalenfieldnz.co.nz and give Trevor a bell to org a test ride. The wife will love you for it :) They even come with electric start now.

[warewolf]

Very fucking brown rice.
I trust you enjoyed taking on said theory online as much as in a drafty back corner of a cheeky little remuera friday night eatery?
Your memory is better than mine. Actually I'm just trying get off my L-plates!?


feels like we went.
Nah, I'm sitting too far from the dunny and people at the next table aren't looking at us.

Feck it still makes me laugh remembering the waiter's reaction at that Newmarket place when you commented his dish of the day would be dogfood back home! Tasted good, but, yeah, eh!


virtual red?
Ooh, yes please. They tell me 202.27.158.40 is a good vintage.

[warewolf]

PS Consider this thread officially hijacked!

PPS And that's 30...woo hoo!!!

[Big Dave]

The Kangaroo Steaks? He had to be kidding. Or the 'Mussels?, Mussels are Bait' line.

[warewolf]

The Kangaroo Steaks? He had to be kidding. Or the 'Mussels?, Mussels are Bait' line.
The former. I reckon Skippy is good tucker... as long as it wasn't scraped off the road. MacDonald's can have that lot.

[Motu]

They even come with electric start now.

She'd kill me if I brought her home a bike with electric start - the best thing about a big single is the starting ritual,it's a skill to master....and as someone who has mastered it she will be insulted.

I've found that people who are mechanicaly competant and like to learn about their own bike will be more inclined to something old tech.Those mechanicaly incompetant who take the bike into the shop for every little thing will be inclined to buy the latest model every year.

[2much]

was at the lights at the top of nelson st today, there was a chap on a nice looking new yellow triumph daytona. at first i was really impressed about how the bike looked , until i looked down to see a tiny set of non USD forks , and only 4 pot calipers, WTF is up with that

didnt conventional forks go out a while back??, (my dad is english) but personally i dont like english machinery, to raw and behind the times IMHO

I accidently pulled a wheelie down nelson beside him (whoops)

Another example is a mate used to have a triumph daytona super 3 (came with CF pipes etc) but i remember it was a 1999 or close and only had 110hp at the back wheel - thats pus if you ask me

Now im not bashing triumphs , but just confused why anyone would buy a bike with old technology ??

I have an 04 Daytona 600, it's got the conventional forks and four pots.

The forks perform extremely well and prove that USD's aren't all that nessasary. The Daytona 600/650 is one of the best handling production bikes out there. I'm no rossi and far from it, but that bike is so easy to ride fast that it makes me look good. I have been able to keep up with and even pass many of the latest and greatest Jap 1000's thru the corners. Was even held up by an MV Augusta 750 on a recent ride across the Kopu-Hik.

As for the brakes, they are a matter of taste. they have alot more lever travel than Japs, but this also means there is alot of feel and no initial grabbing. It took me a while to get used to them, but I learnt to love them. And they still had enough power to lift the rear tyre in the air with little effort.

The other thing I love about the bike is it's looks, imho it's one of the sexiest looking bikes out there, and I've had many approving comments. Also, the recognition the triumph badge carries always amazed me.... everyone loves it. I've had comments and thumbs up from teenagers while sitting at the lights, to old people coming up to me to tell me stories about their old trumpys when they were young and how far triumph have come. May be just me, but I love that shit.

Only two complaints, abit underpowered and the chassis could handle so much more... tho still managed to pull 230k with a pillion so can't really complain, the only time it really erked me was riding with 1000's when the road straightened up. Admittedly any 600 (except perhaps a 636 to some extent) is gonna suffer that.

My main bitch would be the price of spares (eg:$104 for an indicator). Hence the repairs from my off on sunday come to $15500 for cosmetic damage and a front subframe!!!?

And yes, Bruce Anstey on the Daytona 600 cleaned up the 2003 IOM Junior (supersport) TT in it's first year of competition...... A true measure of the bike.