That a XR or CR???

[dangerous]

Hi there long time listner 1st time caller...... well it is the 1st time I have posted in this forum.

Now Back in 'my' day the XR was a 4 stroke and the CR a 2 stroke basicly the same bike other than that then there was the XL which was the rd version of the XR.

But just now I was following a newish chook chaser on a trailer and pulled up beside it thought thats a sweet looking bike...... I noted that it was a 4 stroke, but looked at the tank and it said CR450 HUH? last CR i saw was a 2 stroke.

So when did Honda change there names around and why? like is there still a XL and XR, do Honda do a 2 stroker any more?
I spent a lot of time on a CR480 air cooled drum braked pile a crap... but hell it was fun, as were the 1st of the XR200 prolinks:yes:

[Sniper]

CRF or just a CR? IMHO I thought honda reserved the CR's as 2 strokes

[dangerous]

CRF or just a CR? IMHO I thought honda reserved the CR's as 2 strokes
there was a F in there but I thought it was after the 450..... I might be wrong tho, it was a 4 stroker

[Sniper]

If it was a CRF then its a 4 stroke. (I think)

[Sniper]

http://dirtrider.com/tests/motocross/141_0408_2005_honda_crf450/

This it?

[Coyote]

You would've seen the CRF450. It's a relatively new bike that came out around 2002 I think, and the CRF250 came out in 2004. These CRFs don't have the reliability of the old aircooled XRs as they're more highly strung and burn through pistons and barrels quicker, but they are faster and easier to ride than the 2 strokes. 4 strokes like them are now taking over the 2 strokes in motocross

[Motu]

The XR was never an MX bike,it was an enduro bike,the CR was the MX bike.So the newer 4 strokes are MX,hence CRF....Yamaha has done the same thing,their modern 4 strokes are YZF,a 4 stroke version of the YZ.Suzuki and Kawasaki the same - the 2 strokes are being fazed out....all because of the fucking Yanks and their emisssion laws.They also make the 2 strokes race against bikes twice their capacity - so a CR125 races in the came class as a CRF250 4 stroke,naturaly the 2 stroke has a capacity handicap,although the weight is their advantage.Now is the time to get a 2 stroke,before they disapear completely,they are well sorted and more reliable than a 4 stroke...and a heap of fun to ride.

[soundbeltfarm]

it will be the crf
all ther manufactures are making them now.
kawasaki make the KX 2 stroke now they make the KX450F 4 stroke which bubba is racing in its first season and is cleaning up with it.

yamaha make the YZ and now the 4 stroke is the YZF been out for awhile .

suzuki make the RM and the 4 stroke is the RMZ (not the RMF which some people think)

honda make the CR and now the 4 stroke CRF

[Wellyman]

CRF450 or CRF450X are the 450cc MX bikes. The XR's are nto made anymore

[Coyote]

The XR was never an MX bike,it was an enduro bike,the CR was the MX bike.So the newer 4 strokes are MX,hence CRF....Yamaha has done the same thing,their modern 4 strokes are YZF,a 4 stroke version of the YZ.Suzuki and Kawasaki the same - the 2 strokes are being fazed out....all because of the fucking Yanks and their emisssion laws.They also make the 2 strokes race against bikes twice their capacity - so a CR125 races in the came class as a CRF250 4 stroke,naturaly the 2 stroke has a capacity handicap,although the weight is their advantage.Now is the time to get a 2 stroke,before they disapear completely,they are well sorted and more reliable than a 4 stroke...and a heap of fun to ride.
A 125cc two-stroke averages 32-35 hp at the back wheel while the 250cc four-stroke it now has to compete against makes 34-40 hp. It's simliar in the top class: 250cc two-strokes crank out 45-50 hp while a 450cc four-stroke makes 50-55 hp. - from Two Stroke of Four? Kiwi Rider December 2005

I suggest getting the mag just for this article. It's a very good read. It explains how 4 strokes are being given the advantage having much larger engines and man made groomed tracks and how they aren't nearly as reliable as the old air cooled bikes since they are built for performance.

[Motu]

Yeah,the 2 strokes are being hugely disadvantaged - and if you can't win on a 2 stroke you need a 4 stroke.....oh,2 strokes are unpopular and not selling,we need to drop that range from the line up.All part of the plan.

[crazyxr250rider]

Tut tut tut,
XR250R -Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
XR400R-Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
XR600R-Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F250X-Water cooled Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F450X-Water cooled Enduro 4 strk.
XR650R/L-Water cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F250R (Twin pipe.)- Motor Cross4 strk.
CR-F450R-Motor Cross 4 strk.
CR85-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CR125-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CR250-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CRM250-Water cooled Trail 2strk.
CR500R/E-Water cooled Motor Cross/Enduro

[Wellyman]

Tut tut tut,
XR250R -Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
XR400R-Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
XR600R-Air cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F250X-Water cooled Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F450X-Water cooled Enduro 4 strk.
XR650R/L-Water cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.
CR-F250R (Twin pipe.)- Motor Cross4 strk.
CR-F450R-Motor Cross 4 strk.
CR85-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CR125-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CR250-Motor Cross 2 strk.
CRM250-Water cooled Trail 2strk.
CR500R/E-Water cooled Motor Cross/Enduro

I was going to say that but im to lazy to type it all out. by the way the CR500 is actually a MX bike, but alot of people use it for a trail bike because it is a good bike.
WM

[Brian d marge]

Yeah,the 2 strokes are being hugely disadvantaged - and if you can't win on a 2 stroke you need a 4 stroke.....oh,2 strokes are unpopular and not selling,we need to drop that range from the line up.All part of the plan.

They get me out of the corners, they just get more traction, ( I can get it back a little with jetting ) , but they just get that drive out of the corner. I gain it back about 3/4 of the the next straight,

And the back log for spares has reached critical in the US as the 4 strokes NEED the maintainace

I will stick to franken CR , for a few seasons yet ,,,If I can dial in the suspension abit more It will be good enough for me for a good long while yet !!!

Next time anyone sees a tree huggger ,,,:Pokey: for me !!!

Stephen

I only need 2 strokes .................* much to my missus disheart !*

[Wellyman]

I'm young but I find a 2 stroke too much of a battle to ride. I like the four stroke power and delivery beter than the big hit of a two stroke.
WM

[crazyxr250rider]

....... by the way the CR500 is actually a MX bike, but alot of people use it for a trail bike because it is a good bike.
WM
Point one. Yes the CR500 is a MX bike.
Point two.Trail is not Enduro.
Point three.The CR500 "E", is an ENDURO BIKE.
I can supply photos if you wish.

[Wellyman]

Yes I know about CR500's, i'm actually quite fond of them. I was just saying my opionion. By the way have you done that trailride down near the highway, there is one down there that I did that the track was a few hundred metres from the main road.
WM

[crazyxr250rider]

Uriti,Urenui Lions, Blue mountains?

[Wellyman]

I think it was Urenui or Uriti area. The last time I did that ride it had one hell of a clay hill in it and riders were stuck all the way up it. everybody was dragging bikes to the top of the hil, they eventually cut that hill out and it made the ride much better. It was a bit wet at the start of the day but the day got better.
WM

[crazyxr250rider]

Urenui, Yeah i did it last year on my cheetah 200 somthing like 5 people had to get air lifted out it was so hard out just turned into a motor cycle grave yard and some atv's had to be put on teir side and pulled across the bridge
oh yeah and some guy on a RM ran out of petrol an' we gave him some from my step dads old PE

[crazyxr250rider]

...........The last time I did that ride it had one hell of a clay hill in it and riders were stuck all the way up it. everybody was dragging bikes to the top of the hil, they eventually cut that hill out and it made the ride much better..........\
WMthat hills still there and part of the trail ride.I know the guy who owns the farm that the hill is on and go riding there for FREE every week!!!

[enigma51]

I loved my XR500 .... even though it caused me alot of pain. Two broken feet couple of ribs both wrists (Broke them more than once) a finger or two and the one that nailed the mx/eduro days shut ..... the shoulder!!!!!

But off all the bikes the xr was my favourite

[crazyxr250rider]

I smashed my shoulder into a strainer post and only chipped the top of the socket now my arm can easily be pulled out of it's socket.
And there we have yet another bit of useless information.....

[Wellyman]

that hills still there and part of the trail ride.I know the guy who owns the farm that the hill is on and go riding there for FREE every week!!!

That was a bitch of a hill. I got stuck on it, everybody else had fallen off and my bike was overheating it was pissing me off. I will be down in Tongaporutu in January at our tree farm.
WM

[WRT]

This might help (http://www.motorbikes.be/en/compare/4570/4568/) explain the capacity restrictions in place for the 2 strokes.

To summarise, comparing two current, highly strung 2005 MX model Hondas, CR250R 2 stroke vs CRF450R 4 stroke. The CR has the following advantages:

- 4.3kg lighter
- 3hp extra
- .3nm extra

Ok, so the 450 isnt quite double the capacity, but its close. The advantages of the CRF arent so easy to pen tho, they are more the things you feel from the saddle rather than figures on paper:

- More traction out of the turns
- Wider spread of power
- More progressive hit of acceleration

Which make them easier to ride fast. The 2 strokes need to be WORKED in order to get the pace, the 4 strokes are more forgiving of an incorrect gear out of the corner, or a patch with poor traction.

Dont suppose anyone would have dyno charts from those two? That should help show the power delivery from each.

[Murderotica]

I'm young but I find a 2 stroke too much of a battle to ride. I like the four stroke power and delivery beter than the big hit of a two stroke.
WM

Toughen up Dan!
I remember you used to ride a KDX200 back in the day...:blink:

[XTC]

Tut tut tut,

XR650R/L-Water cooled Trail/Enduro 4 strk.

XR650L is quite a different beast to the XR650R. L is air cooled electric start trail/adventure bike. Even the 2006 model that is not imported to NZ. Shame really because if you wan't a honda adventure bike you are limited to the transalp.

[Oscar]

XR650L is quite a different beast to the XR650R. L is air cooled electric start trail/adventure bike. Even the 2006 model that is not imported to NZ. Shame really because if you wan't a honda adventure bike you are limited to the transalp.

I had a Xr650RL.
It was the last one sold in NZ new. It was a pretty cool and capable adventure bike.

[Murderotica]

The XR was never an MX bike,it was an enduro bike,the CR was the MX bike.So the newer 4 strokes are MX,hence CRF....Yamaha has done the same thing,their modern 4 strokes are YZF,a 4 stroke version of the YZ.Suzuki and Kawasaki the same - the 2 strokes are being fazed out....all because of the fucking Yanks and their emisssion laws.They also make the 2 strokes race against bikes twice their capacity - so a CR125 races in the came class as a CRF250 4 stroke,naturaly the 2 stroke has a capacity handicap,although the weight is their advantage.Now is the time to get a 2 stroke,before they disapear completely,they are well sorted and more reliable than a 4 stroke...and a heap of fun to ride.

Being a blue bike fan, I have to correct you here. Yamaha had the four stroke motocross bikes before everyone else. Honda copied Yamaha, not the other way around.

[Motu]

I wasn't meaning Honda was first,just addressing the question,which was about the CRF...then I added Yamaha into the mix.As for the first modern competitive 4 stroke? That goes to Husqvarna with the TC510,the first 4 stroke to win open class MX in 19 years - all 4 strokes since then have been built on the back of Husky's pioneering work.

[XTC]

Being a blue bike fan, I have to correct you here. Yamaha had the four stroke motocross bikes before everyone else. Honda copied Yamaha, not the other way around.
I don't see where Motu said honda did it first? If anyone did it first it was Husaberg and husqvarna if you dont count the old bsa, triumphs greeves etc of old.

[Murderotica]

Oops my bad.
I'm just a 15 year old boy with a big head who thought he was being clever :slap:
Sorry guys you seem to be much more knowledgible than me, I won't challenge you again :sweatdrop

[Oscar]

Here's the Godfather of modern 4 stroke dirt bikes...

[Wellyman]

I don't see where Motu said honda did it first? If anyone did it first it was Husaberg and husqvarna if you dont count the old bsa, triumphs greeves etc of old.

I agree with XTC . I think it would have been BSA or Triumph.
WM

[XTC]

history of motocross....
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/motocross.shtml#hist1

Everything appears to go in cycles (excuse the pun) Years ago two strokes were considered too unreliable and underpowered to be used in MX machines. At that time the 4 strokes ruled then two stroke development took a huge leap forward and all of a sudden 4 strokes were out dated in MX and guess what now the reverse is happening. people are looking to two strokes again after struggling to cope with the percieved expense and difficulty of maintaining a modern 4 stroke MXer. I will agree that if you have to pay someone to work on your 4 stroke MX bike then it will be more expensive. Most noddies can replace a piston and rings in a 2 stroke in the back shed. After saying all this my 2003 YZ250F was very reliable while my mates KXF was in the shop for valves twice under warranty.

[Motu]

BSA won the last 500cc MX Champs in about 1970?? ....then 2 strokes dominated for about 20 years,and mostly 250s as the 500 2 strokes were slower.Then Husky developed the 510,using a 2 stroke crankcase with no oil pump,it was super light for it's day and finaly beat the smokers winning the open class MX in 1993.

[Motu]

Hmmm,looking at your link XTC I'm all up the wop....I'm just remembering from back then...it was a big thing when Husky won - and I don't see their name in the 500cc champs,but I think it was an open class then,there are so many classes and so called championships.Husaberg came later,when Cagiva took over Husky the guys who developed the 4 stroke ''defected'' and made another company to build the bikes they wanted to develope.Ah well,I still reckon Husky were the first with a 4 stroke to take on a 2 stroke on equal terms.....the modern ones can't even do that,they race against 2 strokes half the size.

[XTC]

Hmmm,looking at your link XTC I'm all up the wop....I'm just remembering from back then...it was a big thing when Husky won - and I don't see their name in the 500cc champs,but I think it was an open class then,there are so many classes and so called championships.Husaberg came later,when Cagiva took over Husky the guys who developed the 4 stroke ''defected'' and made another company to build the bikes they wanted to develope.Ah well,I still reckon Husky were the first with a 4 stroke to take on a 2 stroke on equal terms.....the modern ones can't even do that,they race against 2 strokes half the size.
Yes was jacky Martens in 1993 on the husqvarna....
http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://homepage.internet.lu/marc.hirt/history/jacky.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3DJacky%2BMARTENS%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DXj9% 26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official

[Danger]

In the USA the AMA has just decreed that 125's can now be increased to 144cc to compete against the 250 diesels.
There is a shift back to two strokes at a grass roots level, for less cost of the show room, easier and cheaper maintanence. Some of the factorys would like to see the end of the two stroke eg: Kawasaki discontinued their KX125 in the USA for '06. Honda have not changed their two strokes for a number of years by any great degree, prefering to concentrate on the diesels.
Yamaha have put alot of effort into both their diesels and smokers, Suzuki the same, and have probably the best fourstroke like engine in their RM250 smoker which has been very popular in both MX and enduro (Sean Clarke won NZ National enduro title on his RM250K5.)
KTM are full steam ahead with their two stroke line of enduro and x country bikes but also have great four strokes.
In the USA the two strokes are usually bought out for the wet GNCC events for the lighter weight and ease of starting. In drier conditions the diesels are favoured.
In American Supa X just about the hole field is on diesels now, and the tracks have been changed somewhat to favour them.
Long live the smoker I say. The day they are dead is along way off.:rockon:

[NordieBoy]

That goes to Husqvarna with the TC510,the first 4 stroke to win open class MX in 19 years - all 4 strokes since then have been built on the back of Husky's pioneering work.

And one of the evilest bikes to start.

[Motu]

Well,I got the owner to start it for me because it was on alky,I jumped on it straight off my XR200,and rode the TE510 at the same pace,and you know how hard you have to ride an XR200 - the bike inspired that much confidence...on a first ride! I gave it back when I started to back it into corners with the throttle,I thought I might be getting a little too cocky.

Around the same time I had a few rides on a WR250,and no way could I come to grips with that bike,it was so aggressive you didn't dare give it everything...it was terrifying - chalk and cheese from the same factory only a few years apart.