My riding development - how fast?

[skelstar]

I have been thinking about this for a while and after spending a day at the Taupo track day I thought it time to ask some questions:

1. How do I know I can/can't go faster?

In theory I could ride through a corner and get through the other side and say "Well I didnt skid/slide/crash, therefore I can ride it faster...". Rinse and repeat. Tell me Im wrong but this theory may work until I do slide, perhaps highside/lowside, and it could be an expensive lesson.

2. Do I get enough warning of a lowside/highside?

Patches of oil and gravel aside, am I going to get some warning of impending doom on a regular piece of road/track? There must be tell-tail signs.

3. There was suggestion that Shenko rubber is a bit 'dodgy'...will it be harder to find the limit with these tires?

The rubber is hard. I have pushed the bike reasonably hard(-ish) and the tires are still pretty good at 13000 kms.

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Advice is appreciated. Perhaps you are not too far ahead of me in my riding 'head space' and would care to comment? Personnal experiences etc.

Thanks in advance.

Footnote: I know now that I could have ridden harder at Taupo. I know watching me ride at Taupo wouldnt have inspire awe in the spectators either. I lacked a bit of confidence in my susp and tires...I dont know where the limit is :).

[Zapf]

wow... 13'000km on the same tires.... you'll be reaching the similar level of tire life as Crashe pretty soon :)

Get some stickies :) think you'll notice the difference too...

e.g something like sports demons might be enough.... no need for super stickies...

[skelstar]

...you'll be reaching the similar level of tire life as Crashe pretty soon :)...
I...think...I resent that! :)

[bugjuice]

1) in the dry, you'll get some level of warning before your bike is pushed beyond it's limits. Good tyres will help you take a good corner, but it's not all about the tyres etc. You have to know the corner, be in a good mental place etc etc, then it just flows. Don't over think a corner too. Worst thing you can do is be riding at a good pace, and have your head full of crap. Just relax and go with the flow. There's a limit to everything. You could try riding with some more experienced riders and watch the line and speed they carry. Learn from them..

2) oil, diesel, worn tar, white lines, gravel, rain etc are all slippy. You won't get any warning besides you being sat on your arse when you were on your bike a second ago. In the dry, you'll get some squirming as it's getting near to the limits of the tyres. But as for hazards like that, just keep your eyes open and avoid them. You don't get any warning, just have to deal with it when it happens.

3) If you're happy with the tyres, then keep going. People will offer their advice, and most of it is good. At the end of the day, you're riding it, and you're spending your hard earned on it. If you can afford some more 'main stream' branded tyres, then they often give a better performance level. But if you aren't getting the hardest out of these tyres, then you might not need to spend that much. How fat are the chicken strips?

At the end of the day, there's no fun in scaring yourself shitless every corner. The odd corner on purpose, sure why not.. but not all the time. Ride to your abilities and the conditions of the road and weather, and thru pure experience, your abilities will improve. The spin-off side of that, is that you'll get faster. But you can't be a fast rider and crap everything else.. Let it flooooooow.

my 2¢

[scroter]

have you touched your boots down yet? what about the pegs? are you using all your tyres?

personally I dont do peg down at all and I wouldnt reccomend it on the road. If your suspension is allright then go hard.

one thing I always try to remember is that if im not relaxed then im probably going too fast for my abilitys.

as for highside/lowside warning, sorry cant tell you never done either. but Im betting Id fair pack myself if I came close

[skelstar]

Ta buggy. Nice special char BTW.

I ride with fast/better riders exclusively. I generally get left behind (thats to be expected) so doesnt iive me much time to learn the lines. Honestly I think my lines are pretty good already. Happy to be told otherwise. Just dont know how fast.

VTWIN and Dafe have offered their assistance before, and arguably when I was 'following' VTWIN on the takas I was going really well (IMHO). I didnt account for the wind though :whistle:...

I wont replace my tires at this stage. Only three months to go till another bike anyway.

oh yeah: 10mm chicken strip.

[skelstar]

have you touched your boots down yet? what about the pegs? are you using all your tyres?

personally I dont do peg down at all and I wouldnt reccomend it on the road. If your suspension is allright then go hard.

one thing I always try to remember is that if im not relaxed then im probably going too fast for my abilitys.

as for highside/lowside warning, sorry cant tell you never done either. but Im betting Id fair pack myself if I came close
Havent touched down at all. I kinda know that I can lean over heaps more...maybe I just have to do it. Next trackday maybe.

[bugjuice]

if you want to follow someone to watch the lines, then tell them before you head off, don't just try to keep up! Another way could be to trust someone you take you as pillion, so you can see from a 'fast' point of view. Learn from being on the back.

Biggest thing to remember tho - don't rush it, else you'll stack it. And no one wants that. It'll come with time

[cowpoos]

go wider on 25kmph left handers.....






and when your keys runaway....watch out for flying beer.... :woohoo:

[skelstar]

go wider on 25kmph left handers...
Which one? The hairpin at Taupo?

Beer is for drinking not throwing. Im mean come-on....who throws a beer?

[madboy]

10mm strip? In normal road use, I don't generally get far beyond that myself. 5mm is prob where i sit at. Edges I save for the track. Now I'm no loosebruce or WT, but buggy and I weren't hanging around during one of those sessions on the track and we only barely touched our edges.

Chicken strips are a dangerous thing to use as a marker of speed IMHO. I can sit on the seat and nana it over the takas, or I can hang off and go hard and still get the same lean angles. Weight distribution.

Just whatever you do, don't follow me. I still struggle to use bike lines rather than my inbred car lines, which just don't work!!

[skelstar]

10mm strip? ... ... I still struggle to use bike lines rather than my inbred car lines, which just don't work!!
A 10mm strip would be a bit frustrating eh? :blip:

Goddamn playstation2 got a lot to answer for.

[Bartman10]

Having a dedicated track bike helps. I don't mind binning the ZXR250 too much (not that its mine anyway) so I push it a bit on the track. This has resulted in 2 bins but taught me heaps about the way the bike handles at it's limit.

This directly translates to more confidence on the road on the 750.

The 750 also gives a fair bit of warning in the dry becasue the rear tyre squirms.

Anyway - it's not about speed, it’s about smoothness, confidence and being in the right frame of mind. Speed will come naturally if you're smooth and confident (something I'm still working on even after riding for more than 6 years)

[Zapf]

I...think...I resent that! :)

:buggerd: :P hehehe.... sorry... might have to have a ride with you some time then :)

[skelstar]

:buggerd: :P hehehe.... sorry... might have to have a ride with you some time then :)
I need to come up to Auck sometime soon I think. Lots of rides to do up there it seems.

[cowpoos]

Which one? The hairpin at Taupo?

Beer is for drinking not throwing. Im mean come-on....who throws a beer?

nooo...that one coming out of marsterton...


and by the way...I think you ride fine on the road...you seem to keep a good steady pace...consistant...and you havn't been riding for a year yet...
read some books like twist of the wrist...and keep following other riders...and most of all keep asking questions...

its easyer for people to help you when you ask precise questions rather than general ones....

[skelstar]

nooo...that one coming out of marsterton...
Ah yess...now I remember.


...read some books like twist of the wrist...and keep following other riders...and most of all keep asking questions...
Book idea a good one. Dont mind asking questions.:)

[bugjuice]

10mm strip? In normal road use, I don't generally get far beyond that myself. 5mm is prob where i sit at. Edges I save for the track. Now I'm no loosebruce or WT, but buggy and I weren't hanging around during one of those sessions on the track and we only barely touched our edges.

Chicken strips are a dangerous thing to use as a marker of speed IMHO. I can sit on the seat and nana it over the takas, or I can hang off and go hard and still get the same lean angles. Weight distribution.

Just whatever you do, don't follow me. I still struggle to use bike lines rather than my inbred car lines, which just don't work!!
good point about the chicken strips. I was just curious to see that it was being lent over. If they were huge, then there's obviously more room for improvement! But yeah, every day riding, I have about -5mm from the edge. On that session where we were toying a bit, I noticed a nice little line of rubber being put down as we accelerated off turn 1. I also got a few squirms from the back coming out of the hairpin and the sweeper. That's the tryes' and bikes' way of saying 'oi, you're pushing your luck a little..', so you just either hold it, or back off very slightly. You know you're close to the edge..

wish I was back on the track now actually.. Was good tussling with ya MB ;)

[skelstar]

wish I was back on the track now actually.. Was good tussling with ya MB ;)
You should be a cop mate, they get to tussle with MB all the time.

I noticed in the wet that the back wheel stepped out a bit on the right-hander. Just kinda wiggled a bit. Happened three times in that sess. I doubt it was because the tire was cold on that side.:)

[wendigo]

When I first started trackdays, I found a good way to boost my lack of confidence was to follow bigger, heavier bike through the corners. My thinking was that if the big bike could get through the corner, me on my little 400 shouldn't have any problems.

This worked fine up until the moment I noticed smoke coming from the rear tyre of the ZXR750 I wuz chasing, followed shortly by sparks from his footpegs & little plastic bits from his fairing.

It was at this point I realised my wonderfull theory was fatally flawed, in that not everyone on a bigger bike was necessarily better than me.


GOT THROUGH THE CORNER WITHOUT CRASHING THOUGH!!!!

[skelstar]

It was at this point I realised my wonderfull theory was fatally flawed, in that not everyone on a bigger bike was necessarily better than me.

I had considered this technique, but thought that my bikes susp is not that great, and apparently the rubber is quite hard (read in reviews too). This equals sliding.

Good large letter advice though. Thanks! :)

[bugjuice]

yeah, following other bikes works to a point - there's other things to consider, like suspension set up, tyres, rider confidence etc.. That can make the fastest bike go slow

[Zapf]

I had considered this technique, but thought that my bikes susp is not that great, and apparently the rubber is quite hard (read in reviews too). This equals sliding.

Good large letter advice though. Thanks! :)

hay but if you can slide around corners while staying upright you might get around corners faster than big bikes :) look at the motards... (not that I have personal experience or recommend... )

[wendigo]

I had considered this technique, but thought that my bikes susp is not that great, and apparently the rubber is quite hard (read in reviews too). This equals sliding.

True - I always used Bridgestone BT90's. They were described as an intermediate tyre, but in truth, they were more like slicks, with a couple of token grooves cut in them. Bongo levels of grip.

Ahh happy days, the memories...

Now of course I'm the fucker on the big heavy bike gettin' chased by all them little shits on their 250's...

[T.W.R]

Disconnect your speedo for a while, do a few rides with mates or trackdays & ride your bike on feel of the engine, nothing cripples trying to get fast like lookin at a speedo & thinkin "FARKIN HELL I"M GOIN THAT FAST!!" especially when it comes to gettin around corners quick

[Gremlin]

I lacked a bit of confidence in my susp and tires...I dont know where the limit is :).
I can tell you right now, if you don't have confidence in your bike (that it can cope with what you are doing), your riding will suffer. You will always have niggling doubt in the back of your mind whether you should really be doing something.

For example, on a ride, going through a left hander, I noticed a big dip in the road. Knowing my bike bottomed out in some situations, I was worried. So worried, I tried to brake and avoid, ended up running wide, almost into the oncoming. Almost lost the line through the corner, and was just able to pull it back into shape.

Make sure you have confidence in your machine, tyres and self.

As BJ said, you will naturally get faster without trying, as you unconciously and conciously learn more and more.

[Drunken Monkey]

...
2) oil, diesel, worn tar, white lines, gravel, rain etc are all slippy. You won't get any warning besides you being sat on your arse when you were on your bike a second ago.
...

Not true. You can slip on 'greasy' surfaces as you have listed without road-testing your leathers and decking your bike if you know what you're doing. Smooth throttle control is the key.

[White trash]

Give me a dollar and I'll tell ya.

[flash]

Give me a dollar and I'll tell ya.
next time ill give you a whole $2 if you teach me how to do a perfect wheelie at the next track day:not:

ive only been riding for around a year (no real fast stuff though) and im still waiting to put my knee down, mind you this was in jeans so its probably best i didnt get it down :whistle: