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Skyryder
25th December 2005, 06:43
The other day I was having a few beers with some biker mates that I had not seen for some time. Anyway the conversation got around to speeding and related areas of police enforcement etc. Now one of the guys got done recently for 149 kph and was told that if it had been 150kph he would have had to leave his bike on the side of the road as this would have resulted in an ‘instant loss of licence’ notice There was some general agreement that a police officer does have the power to 'enforce' this. I however took the opposite view: that in fact an officer, can not arbitrarily issue a loss of licence notice unless the driver admits guilt. I postulated the position that if a driver disputed the evidence of the offence and wanted to challenge the evidence in court, as is his/her right to do so, then the fundamental principle of innocent until proven guilty would prevail and the driver could lawfully proceed on their way.

Now it was argued that the police have the power to remove car keys and remove unsafe cars off the road and some saw this as no different from issuing a loss of licence notice. There was no dispute from me as to the powers of the police concerning these two issues but I see no relation between these and the issuing of loss of licence notice on the following grounds.

Both the arbitrarily removal of car keys from drivers and the ordering of vehicles off the road are the result of a condition or (in the case of vehicles) several conditions i.e. the condition of the driver too drive in a safe manner and the condition of the vehicle to comply with WoF standards.

The arbitrary issueing of a loss of licence notice is not the result of a condition but that of an action, that of speeding.


Skyryder

WINJA
25th December 2005, 09:38
i noticed a lot of people getting tickets for exactly 149 kmh over the last few years , i think the cops are turning 155 and 160 tickets to 149 for convinience and to not clutter up the courts .
one of my big deciding factors to do runners was i felt my civil rights were breached with the introduction of road side disqualification , fuck the pigs for enforcing it , every man deserves his day in court before sentence is handed down

oldrider
25th December 2005, 15:53
Hey Skyryder, he's hijacked your good thread with that signature alone! :thud: Sheeesh. John.

WINJA
25th December 2005, 15:58
hey skyryder, he's hijacked your good thread with that signature alone! :thud: sheeesh. john.
are ya lonely john ? call 0900 chickswithdicks

crash harry
25th December 2005, 16:14
WINJ, dude! Green bling for the sig!
I take it this is to make up for your blocked caps-lock key?

WINJA
25th December 2005, 16:31
winj, dude! green bling for the sig!
i take it this is to make up for your blocked caps-lock key?
not at all , i just think its funny , i think its even funnier that someone would buy one

Skyryder
25th December 2005, 16:49
Hey Skyryder, he's hijacked your good thread with that signature alone! :thud: Sheeesh. John.

Just Winj's way of telling me to go fuck myself. Must admit it's an improvement on some of his comments to me. I do agree that why would someone want one when you've got two for free.

Skyryder

WINJA
25th December 2005, 16:54
just winj's way of telling me to go fuck myself. must admit it's an improvement on some of his comments to me. i do agree that why would someone want one when you've got two for free.

skyryder
i want telling you to go fuck yourself , this is the best thread youve ever posted . its my sig , im telling everyone to go fuck themself

marty
25th December 2005, 19:47
no admission of guilt is required. check section 95 of the land transport act. there is a right of appeal only. there is no discretion - the law makers have decided that the roadside suspension is mandatory - the officer MUST issue the suspension notice if the offence has been committed - either speeding or alcohol related. note that if you blow over 800, and go for a blood test, you will still be suspended for the excess 800. you just won't get a further suspension if the blood comes back at over 160.

and you have to EXCEED 150k - sdoing 150 will just get you a fine. you have to be at 151k

scumdog
26th December 2005, 07:08
not at all , i just think its funny , i think its even funnier that someone would buy one

So how many d'you have WINJA??

WINJA
26th December 2005, 09:11
so how many d'you have winja??
3, and 1 on back order. how many butt plugs you got piggy??

FlyingDutchMan
26th December 2005, 09:36
They do have the right to remve your license on the roadside, but only upto 28 days. They need to go through court to make it stick any longer.

scumdog
26th December 2005, 09:40
3, and 1 on back order. how many butt plugs you got piggy??
None. Didn't want any and it seems you got the lot anyway!!:motu:

And I take it your "3, and 1 on back order' means the number of cartons of 'em you have and/or are getting?

WINJA
26th December 2005, 10:24
none. didn't want any and it seems you got the lot anyway!!:motu:

and i take it your "3, and 1 on back order' means the number of cartons of 'em you have and/or are getting?
im a wholesaler , my biggest customer is the pigs

scumdog
26th December 2005, 10:30
im a wholesaler , my biggest customer is the pigs


Ah! Good cover story- "yeah, I'm a wholesaler, that's why I have so many":motu:

How do you explain all the smelly, over-used discarded ones???

madboy
26th December 2005, 10:42
Skyryder, it's innocent until the cop says your guilty. So if you've been pinged for 51+ over, nothing you can do but hope they're having a good day and round it down to 49 over. Then argue it in court some time later. You can do it on an emergency basis I understand, meaning within the next few working days, which is a lot of help at this time of year with public holidays here there and everywhere.

Don't speed. Speeding kills. Or subscribe to the Winja school of tax evasion... it's worked for me so far. But my limit is at 11k over, no need to get a ticket unless you need to.

Skyryder
26th December 2005, 14:38
no admission of guilt is required. check section 95 of the land transport act. there is a right of appeal only. there is no discretion - the law makers have decided that the roadside suspension is mandatory - the officer MUST issue the suspension notice if the offence has been committed - either speeding or alcohol related. note that if you blow over 800, and go for a blood test, you will still be suspended for the excess 800. you just won't get a further suspension if the blood comes back at over 160.

and you have to EXCEED 150k - sdoing 150 will just get you a fine. you have to be at 151k

Is there any case law on this? I have no doubt as to what you say is true but it seems to me that a very important princilpe in law has been violated in this instance.

Skyryder

Skyryder
26th December 2005, 14:47
This is the relevent section of the LT Act 1988.

(3)A suspension under this section starts immediately after the notice is given to the person to whom it applies.


So I'm being pigheaded. I dispute the officers speed and refuse to accept the notice.

What happens then?

Skyryder

madboy
26th December 2005, 19:18
This is the relevent section of the LT Act 1988.

(3)A suspension under this section starts immediately after the notice is given to the person to whom it applies.


So I'm being pigheaded. I dispute the officers speed and refuse to accept the notice.

What happens then?

SkyryderYou hop on the bike pull a massive arse wheelie off down the road while turning and flipping the bird to the cop, then you get chased through several residential streets, past some kiddies playing on the road, pop a wicked stoppie to miss some woman pushing a pram, then disappear into thin air and hope the cop can't remember where he wrote down your license number and rego plate.

Or you have a heated debate on the side of the road which leads to the cop winning.

Personally, I'd wind the cop up until he starts saying some really unprofessional shit (takes on average 1m 37sec) then demand the senior shift officer turns up to defuse the situation. It's been done. Can't say it'll get you off your ticket, but it'll make you feel better and it's just plain funny watching a junior cop backpedal on what he's said when the snr or sgt turns up.

froggyfrenchman
26th December 2005, 20:23
well, a guyi know found out a week back, @168kmh on your 999, dunedin cops give you 28days excersice while waiting fo your court day

Ivan
26th December 2005, 20:57
Winja, your sig pic is about rude dont ya think, think about all the small boys and girls on here especially the boys when there dad walks in like myne did and said what was that fucken picture and then cracked up laughing when he found out it was kiwibiker but some kids just aint gonna get away with it


I do think it is funny tho

WINJA
26th December 2005, 21:38
winja, your sig pic is about rude dont ya think, think about all the small boys and girls on here especially the boys when there dad walks in like myne did and said what was that fucken picture and then cracked up laughing when he found out it was kiwibiker but some kids just aint gonna get away with it


i do think it is funny tho
its got no nudity and no bad language , whats the big deal

Biff
26th December 2005, 21:54
I totally agree with what you're saying Skyrider. It doesn't seen right that the police officer has been given the power to, pretty much, instantly convict you at the side of the road. There's always the chance that his/her radarmathingy fked up, or clocked another, larger, vehicle.

marty
26th December 2005, 22:10
the legislation is written pretty clear. i'm sure there's case law though - why don't you have a search for it? and refusing to accept service of a document won't get you anywhere

marty
26th December 2005, 22:23
24.Mode of service of documents on defendant—










(1)Every summons to a defendant and every other document which is required to be served on a defendant shall be served on him in one of the following ways:





(a)By being delivered to him personally or by being brought to his notice if he refuses to accept it; or





(b)By being left for him at his place of residence with a member of his family living with him and appearing to be of or over the age of 18 years; or

WINJA
26th December 2005, 22:25
the legislation is written pretty clear. i'm sure there's case law though - why don't you have a search for it? and refusing to accept service of a document won't get you anywhere
this is true some bitch cop tried to serve me a court summons , she knocked on the door , i answered it and said "what the fuck you want" she said is $%#%&^& here , i said no , slammed the door in her face , she knocked and knocked and kicked the door till my flatty answered , he let the cat outa the bag , i came to the door she said heres your summons you said youd pick it up , i said so you want me to do your job bitch , she said take it , i said fuck off , she put it on my foot and said your served , ends up they had to give me more than 24hr notice for the summons(few years ago) , which is another story

Skyryder
26th December 2005, 22:33
the legislation is written pretty clear. i'm sure there's case law though - why don't you have a search for it? and refusing to accept service of a document won't get you anywhere

Yes the legislation is pretty clear.

(3)A suspension under this section starts immediately after the notice is given to the person to whom it applies.



The suspension can not be deemed to have started until the person accepts the notice.

That's my interpertation of what the legislation states.

What law is broken if the person refuses to accept the suspension notice. And if he/she believes that the evidence can be contested then it would seem to me that refusal is the only lawful option.

I'm not deliberately being a pain in the arse over this but I am curious what legal recourse a police officer has in this kind of situation.

Skyryder

WINJA
26th December 2005, 22:38
yes the legislation is pretty clear.

(3)a suspension under this section starts immediately after the notice is given to the person to whom it applies.



the suspension can not be deemed to have started until the person accepts the notice.

that's my interpertation of what the legislation states.

what law is broken if the person refuses to accept the suspension notice. and if he/she believes that the evidence can be contested then it would seem to me that refusal is the only lawful option.

i'm not deliberately being a pain in the arse over this but i am curious what legal recourse a police officer has in this kind of situation.

skyryder
see above , she put it on my foot , and apparently thats all legal

Skyryder
26th December 2005, 22:40
Yes the legislation is pretty clear.

(3)A suspension under this section starts immediately after the notice is given to the person to whom it applies.



The suspension can not be deemed to have started until the person accepts the notice.

That's my interpertation of what the legislation states.

What law is broken if the person refuses to accept the suspension notice. And if he/she believes that the evidence can be contested then it would seem to me that refusal is the only lawful option.

I'm not deliberately being a pain in the arse over this but I am curious what legal recourse a police officer has in this kind of situation.

Skyryder

Just noticed the post on how documents are served. Bugger on 1(a)
Thanks Marty of your input.

Skyryder

scumdog
26th December 2005, 23:29
see above , she put it on my foot , and apparently thats all legal

Dropping it on the ground near the person does it for me when they won't accept it, - "apparently thats all legal".

Stevo
27th December 2005, 07:31
Ya do the crime, ya do the time. I have 60 demerits for 3 offences between 111 and 115. Big criminal me!
If you're doin 150 (which even 10 year olds know to be illegal) and you're not overtaking then you must accept the consequences. Pity we all get treated like criminals these days.

WINJA
27th December 2005, 09:28
dropping it on the ground near the person does it for me when they won't accept it, - "apparently thats all legal".
thats what i was trying to tell him , but what about the time thing , she gave it to me without enough notice , i got it just 24hrs b4 my court date , is that still unacceptable??

WINJA
27th December 2005, 09:30
ya do the crime, ya do the time. i have 60 demerits for 3 offences between 111 and 115. big criminal me!
if you're doin 150 (which even 10 year olds know to be illegal) and you're not overtaking then you must accept the consequences. pity we all get treated like criminals these days.
you need to do what i do , i either stick to the limit or double it

trev
27th December 2005, 09:37
What happens if they get you on a speed camera ? say 180+

spudchucka
27th December 2005, 17:48
So I'm being pigheaded. I dispute the officers speed and refuse to accept the notice.

What happens then?

Skyryder
Driving while suspended = you get arrested and your car gets impounded.

In other words, you just dig an even bigger hole for yourself.

Divot
29th December 2005, 08:14
What happens if they get you on a speed camera ? say 180+

No instant fine, you are summons to appear in court for any speed camera tickect over the majic 50k

Biff
29th December 2005, 16:47
24.Mode of service of documents on defendant—










(1)Every summons to a defendant and every other document which is required to be served on a defendant shall be served on him in one of the following ways:





(a)By being delivered to him personally or by being brought to his notice if he refuses to accept it; or

etc etc




Time to burn bras?
Or maybe start wearing one every time I'm stopped?

scumdog
29th December 2005, 16:52
Time to burn bras?
Or maybe start wearing one every time I'm stopped?
Eff no! There's enough ugly sheilas around without a wannabe sheila as ugly as you stressing cops!:woohoo:
Put the bra over your face and you might stand a chance!!:eek: :whistle:

Indoo
29th December 2005, 17:47
Winja you wouldn't be so fat if you weren't so full of shit.

scumdog
29th December 2005, 19:38
Winja you wouldn't be so fat if you weren't so full of shit.

For THAT much shit ya gotta be FAT!!!

Ixion
29th December 2005, 20:03
Time to burn bras?
Or maybe start wearing one every time I'm stopped?

In the immortal words of Lord Bracton - "man" embraceth "woman"

Dadpole
29th December 2005, 23:58
In the immortal words of Lord Bracton - "man" embraceth "woman"

Tried that line - still got slapped silly.

inlinefour
30th December 2005, 04:48
For THAT much shit ya gotta be FAT!!!

All the shyte he has directed my way and its turns out that he is over 10kg bigger than me:crazy:

WINJA
30th December 2005, 10:07
all the shyte he has directed my way and its turns out that he is over 10kg bigger than me:crazy:
but it looks dignified on me , and i never said i was skinny .

inlinefour
30th December 2005, 11:28
but it looks dignified on me , and i never said i was skinny .

I guess that would be understandable considering you ride a suzuki and live in the clouds.:killingme

ev0lution
5th January 2006, 22:58
and the clincher....

as of 16th January 2006 00:01hrs you'll be suspended for 28 days effective immediately for travelling 40KM/H over any posted speed limit, or 50KM/h over any temporary speed limit....

i foresee a shitload more suspended drivers out there.....

handy_dog
16th January 2006, 14:09
The case in point is -When the document is served-
Some serious arse kissing and groveling at the roadside, may get you a little closer to home, before you are issued the obligitory paperwork.

sAsLEX
16th January 2006, 14:29
or 50KM/h over any temporary speed limit....

i foresee a shitload more suspended drivers out there.....

went through a brilliant one the other day, had 70 on one side of the road and 80 on the other, same direction same location, wonder which to follow!?

ZorsT
16th January 2006, 14:45
and the clincher....

as of 16th January 2006 00:01hrs you'll be suspended for 28 days effective immediately for travelling 40KM/H over any posted speed limit, or 50KM/h over any temporary speed limit....

i foresee a shitload more suspended drivers out there.....
I foresee a shitload more runners

I also foresee a shitload more deaths as a result.

The new laws were made to keep the roads safer by taking the speedsters off the road, instead its going to make it less safe by making the speedsters ride/drive faster than they normally would.

Today I am far more likely to try and run than i was yesterday... I'm still not going to on my current bike (s)

scumdog
16th January 2006, 23:44
I foresee a shitload more runners

I also foresee a shitload more deaths as a result.

The new laws were made to keep the roads safer by taking the speedsters off the road, instead its going to make it less safe by making the speedsters ride/drive faster than they normally would.

Today I am far more likely to try and run than i was yesterday... I'm still not going to on my current bike (s)

Ah grasshopper, should you live long enough to grow old you will surely see the folly of your childish words.........

Posh Tourer :P
17th January 2006, 03:15
went through a brilliant one the other day, had 70 on one side of the road and 80 on the other, same direction same location, wonder which to follow!?

Would that be in FF country? Just south of Pukekohe??

The only place I've seen where you can go faster while overtaking.....

Divot
17th January 2006, 06:56
went through a brilliant one the other day, had 70 on one side of the road and 80 on the other, same direction same location, wonder which to follow!?

Was that on the motorway and around 8 o'clock at night? Just as the road works are being put out.

sAsLEX
17th January 2006, 07:05
Was that on the motorway and around 8 o'clock at night? Just as the road works are being put out.

was early evening, but no people round suggesting they were starting work,

Lou Girardin
17th January 2006, 07:46
Ah grasshopper, should you live long enough to grow old you will surely see the folly of your childish words.........

There's a lot of foolish people around, now there'll be even more.

thehollowmen
17th January 2006, 08:33
shit that's a good point

can I paraphrase that and send it to the paper?

Phurrball
17th January 2006, 15:47
In the immortal words of Lord Bracton - "man" embraceth "woman"

Crikey! Sounds like legal history...

So too sayeth the Interpretation Act 1999 - references to one gender import the other.


31.Use of masculine gender in enactments passed or made before commencement of this Act—

In an enactment passed or made before the commencement of this Act, words denoting the masculine gender include females.

Ixion
17th January 2006, 22:04
Yep

Henri de Bracton , Judge of the court known as Coram Rege, author of De legibus et consuetudinibus Angliae, written some time before 1259. The foremost treatise on English Law until Lord Coke.

handy_dog
24th January 2006, 22:08
Eff no! There's enough ugly sheilas around without a wannabe sheila as ugly as you stressing cops!:woohoo:
Put the bra over your face and you might stand a chance!!:eek: :whistle:
If we all did this, then maybe more of your mates could PERF....
...Which way would they vote then???:nono: