Lost skills and capabilities.

[oldrider]

Of all the skills and capabilities I have had to endure and accept the loss of as I have aged, I think the one I feel the greatest loss, is the ability to be able to communicate on an equal footing with younger people. Especially strangers.

No matter how equal and respectful I may feel internally toward young people it never seems to pan out in reality when I attempt to communicate a serious situation to them.

What is it that we older folk signal to them that makes them immediately go on the defensive rather than walking the same path.

I usually try to defuse any of this by asking a question that requires a simple thinking answer then you don't sound like you are accusing them of something. This seems to be getting less and less effective as I get older.

Where I live there is a large area set aside for trail bikes with a good range of degree of difficulty spread across it.

I was instrumental in securing this area as a trail bike exclusive over 35 years ago and while I have no authority over it anymore I do maintain a keen interest in it's well being and continuance of purpose for bikes.

All of my own children and countless others including holiday makers have had the benefit of this area over that time and now my Grandchildren are using it too.

I am too old to blat around on the tracks now but every now and then I ride up and have a look how the riders are going and how well the area is being used and to keep it from being taken over by campers and the like etc.

Today I went up for a ride and to have a look at the trail bike area and there were campers invading the bottom end of it again so it is obviously under threat again. Huge number of campers here this year.

There were quite a few trail bikes roaring over the tracks looking good and showing a fair amount of skill and daring too, it was really good to see.
I noticed a huge dust cloud suddenly growing around a group of young people
with their bikes and cars parked in the middle of the area.

There were a couple of boy racer types in their cages roaring around spinning and racing each other around not harming anyone but drawing a lot of attention to their behaviour, as they do.

I was concerned that if they came to grief and had an accident in the cars that the outcome could influence the anti-bike brigade into putting pressure back onto the council etc to have the tracks closed. They are still around constantly mouthing off about motorbikes and wanting more area for campers.

Unfortunately in my attempt to enlighten these young people of the dangers of what they were doing I completely fucked up and ended up getting a round of abuse and accusations which did not stop as I rode quietly off either.

The bikers rode all around and past me showering me and my bike with gravel and dust just to show me how clever they were. I was not concerned or afraid because they may have got a surprise of their own if I had got stuck into my bike too.

Many of them had no helmets gloves or protection gear so I guess they will be learning about that for themselves sooner rather than later but that is their prerogative.

I am not really very annoyed with them so much but I am annoyed with myself in not having better skills in communicating with them. I don't think they were doing much wrong in the immediate other than to themselves but I was concerned about the long term results of their actions. It amazes me just how paranoid against bikes public figures like councilors etc are.

I feel really pissed off with the fact that as we get older we just seem to alienate ourselves from the younger generations. What is it that we do so badly. It's not a power thing, damn it I know my place. I was a rooting tooting fighting son of a bitch years ago but shit a brick I couldn't fight my way out of a wet paper bag now so I don't feel very threatening. I just don't want them to loose something that they will never get back if they are careless with it.

Any suggestions advice thoughts or comments would be welcome as I feel this loss or deterioration of communication with younger ones is extremely disappointing and I'm fucked if I know what to do about it. Disappointed, John.

[froggyfrenchman]

Its not so much you as them. They would have done the same to anyone of any age attempting to make them think. If it makes you feel any better, theres plenty of us out there that are quite willing to speak on an even field regardless of age. In fact i for one find the knoledge of "codgers" great, especially bike related. As im into classic pommy bikes, only the aged have any idea how to fix them and what the best mods to do are.

[Mad Cow]

[QUOTE=froggyfrenchman]Its not so much you as them. They would have done the same to anyone of any age attempting to make them think.

I agree, I don't think you have the lost the ability to communicate I just think they have not yet learnt the ability to listen.

The significance of peer pressure in this group is huge - they may have all individually listened but as a group it is "uncool" to give you anything but grief!
The only way to keep up those skills is to keep using them, there will be some who tell you to piss off :brick: but there will be the odd one who listens and that is what you are doing it for.

[froggyfrenchman]

I agree, I don't think you have the lost the ability to communicate I just think they have not yet learnt the ability to listen.

The significance of peer pressure in this group is huge - they may have all individually listened but as a group it is "uncool" to give you anything but grief!
The only way to keep up those skills is to keep using them, there will be some who tell you to piss off :brick: but there will be the odd one who listens and that is what you are doing it for.

Thats a good way of putting it, cheers

[madboy]

The youth of today have it in spades.

I'm 30, and I can't communicate with the f***ers, so sorry John, but you're piddling into a gale mate.

[LXS]

[QUOTE=froggyfrenchman]Its not so much you as them. They would have done the same to anyone of any age attempting to make them think.

I agree, I don't think you have the lost the ability to communicate I just think they have not yet learnt the ability to listen.

The significance of peer pressure in this group is huge - they may have all individually listened but as a group it is "uncool" to give you anything but grief!
The only way to keep up those skills is to keep using them, there will be some who tell you to piss off :brick: but there will be the odd one who listens and that is what you are doing it for.

Well put Mad Cow, I am one of these younger ones; I have a lot respect for people older than me.
Arrogance is one thing that annoys me, eg. I've been on this earth xx years, who the fuck do you think you are? What do you know?
I was in Vietnam while you were just a twinkle in your dads eye etc etc etc.

I just think a bit of mutual respect goes a long way, i.e. listen to me, I listen to you.
This is just my 5 cents, not directed towards anyone in particular.

John, don't think your doing anything wrong, keep on trucking.:headbang:

[Skyryder]

It's the Generation Gap Oldrider. The gap gets wider as you get older. Unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about this as the cure is getting harder to find. It's called respect and there's not a lot of it about anymore.

Skyryder

[WINJA]

it's the generation gap oldrider. the gap gets wider as you get older. unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about this as the cure is getting harder to find. it's called respect and there's not a lot of it about anymore.

skyryder
thats quite true bitch

[Virago]

It's the Generation Gap Oldrider. The gap gets wider as you get older. Unfortunately there's not a lot that can be done about this as the cure is getting harder to find. It's called respect and there's not a lot of it about anymore.

Skyryder
I'd agree on the Generation Gap, and also think that it is so much worse these days.

The problem now is that the parents of teenagers who indulge in anti-social behaviour, will agressively defend their offspring's "right" to "have a bit of fun". The teenagers who were part of the "Me" Generation in the '80's, now have teenagers of their own. I have no doubt Oldrider, that if you'd tried to talk to the boy-racer's parents instead, the abuse and threats would have been worse.

Ask any cop who has confiscated cars under the "boy-racer" laws about the abusive calls from outraged parents....

[avgas]

Bullshit about anything to do with a generation gap. If that were the case then 70 year olds would have problems with 40 y/o.
People cant learn shit from other peoples banterings......education is something you ask to recieve, not forced.
People act 10 ft tall etc, and will immeadiately reject all things opposed to them....age has nothing to do with it. I know 60 y/o that do it.
It is a shame oldrider that you had to deal with these dipshits.....and they will realise this in the future. Do not be so hard on yourself, its their fault not yours - you did atleast try.
As for the whole youth of today bs thats getting flung.......what did you expect when the policies are in place to make wankers rule the country? Unemployment to be a trend? and the Police set up as a tax agency?
This place is set to collapse

[Skyryder]

Bullshit about anything to do with a generation gap. If that were the case then 70 year olds would have problems with 40 y/o.
People cant learn shit from other peoples banterings......education is something you ask to recieve, not forced.
People act 10 ft tall etc, and will immeadiately reject all things opposed to them....age has nothing to do with it. I know 60 y/o that do it.
It is a shame oldrider that you had to deal with these dipshits.....and they will realise this in the future. Do not be so hard on yourself, its their fault not yours - you did atleast try.
As for the whole youth of today bs thats getting flung.......what did you expect when the policies are in place to make wankers rule the country? Unemployment to be a trend? and the Police set up as a tax agency?
This place is set to collapse

It is usually acknowledged that the generation gap refers to teenagers and any generation above. For you to compare it with the difference between two older generations is to misunderstand the meaning of the 'generation gap.'

As for your excuse of blaming government policies, politicians, and the police as a tax agency for the undisciplined behavour of many teenagers, I put it to you that that is bullshit. Until the wowsers in out society acknowledge that an indaviduals behavour is the direct result of his/her own decisions and not some waffle from, counsellors, shrinks and a host of hanger-ons' who blame everything and all but the indavidual, then this behavour is not going to get better.

Skyryder

[Virago]

......Unemployment to be a trend?.....
Unemployment to be a trend? - What country are you living in?

[Pixie]

one doesn't lose the ability to communicate with the young,
the young no longer achieve comprehensability.

[Badcat]

.........
As for your excuse of blaming government policies, politicians, and the police as a tax agency for the undisciplined behavour of many teenagers, I put it to you that that is bullshit. Until the wowsers in our society acknowledge that an individuals behavour is the direct result of his/her own decisions and not some waffle from, counsellors, shrinks and a host of hanger-ons' who blame everything and all but the individual, then this behavour is not going to get better.
..................

Skyryder

so very true.
THANK YOU skyryder.
it seems to me that RESPONSIBILTY to your community and peers is the casualty of modern society.
i'm so sick of hearing excuses for stupid behaviour.
thanks for putting it so well.

ken

[Hitcher]

Young people are like so way amazing.

[Pathos]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

[oldrider]

Well maybe you are right it seems more about their attitudes than mine.

Today my daughter, son in law and kids, went up to the trail bike area for some riding. (They all have their own bikes)

They were driven off the tracks by loonies in 4x4 cages hooning around the tracks especially dangerous on the little kids tracks.

I give up on holiday makers we go from 50 odd people living here to about 20,000 over the holiday period.

That is a big change but it is worth it if they weren't so, me, me, me, orientated.

Many others are expressing the same thing this year. It's very disappointing.

So many of them are nice friendly people but laced up with some real fucking lunatics.

This year I will be glad when they all piss off back home, (haven't felt like that before) it seems to be the worst crowd ever.

We usually look forward to the holiday crowds but this year, sheeesh! :bye: Cheers John.

[scumdog]

Young people are like so way amazing.

I can tell you're not young - otherwise you would have fitted like about six more likes in like your comment.

Am I old too or is it true that a hell of a lot of young males seem to around with a look on their face that somebody just ran over their puppy??

Dealing with a whole lot of younger ones is tough going John, there's always a motor-mouth who lets fly with smart/nasty comments and a whole lot his lakeys that giggle and "yeah, yeah" in a sycophantic way - especially if they don't know you.

Keep trying, if they're locals you'll get some success.

[scumdog]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.

I think oldtimer was just pointing out possible negative consequences....

Something that a lot of young ones do not seem to comprehend, they don't think more than a few seconds down the track...

[Firefight]

read you story with interst, can't offer you a solution., I agree with a lot of what the others have said, I don,t think it's you.as has been said before don't be so hard on your self.

I do think that heaps of young guys out there do respect people a bit older than them, In fact I know that cause I have meet heaps of young guys like that on kb.

Sadly you have come up against some shitbag scrotes and I can understand how you feel.

I worked as a warden at the woodhill motorcycle park for 5 years, in that time I meet heaps of cool riders, some older(not that many)heaps younger,

I had a more than a few run ins with shit bags, sadly thats life, few times I have been threatned, twice robbed of the takings, once had my private vehicle broken into, had the whole maori land right thing shoved in my face.
and shit loads of other things .

And despite all that I had a great time, I meet some great people, learnt heaps, made some dam good friends.

You do what you can, but don,t take any risks with your own safety.

Good luck to you, and respect for what you have tried to do.

F/F

[oldrider]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.
Hi Pathos, you got my drift in the first post of this thread.

The boys did take it that I was complaining at them rather than just letting them know that the area was always under threat by do-gooders etc

My annoyance at the encroachment on the ground by campers probably carried over in my demeanor when talking to them and they took me up wrong.

It is difficult as an older person not to appear to talk down to youngsters and I am conscious not to do that when approaching them.

They were not really causing any trouble but to continue and perhaps have an accident would bring negative attention to the designated bike area.

I did not make a very good job of approaching and talking with them, that was "my" initial problem not so much "theirs."

My initial question was "why do older people lose the ability to communicate effectively with young people"?

The people in the 4x4's up there today were not as young as the boys yesterday and they were a bunch of yobbos.

Life seems so complicated today. Cheers John.

[idb]

I'm 20 and I'd wouldn't abuse anyone like that but what the hell do you expect.

A biker asking a cager to shove it even tho as you said they were "not harming anyone". No matter how many pretty pleases and excuses you put in front of it its still gonna sound like some territorial biker trying to remove some cagers from his private party area.

I don't see any reason to tell them to leave either. Let them have there fun if they aren't annoying/dangering anyone. They're given shit when they try have fun in town (which is fair enough) and then told that motorcyclists don't like them having fun out of town. If the council shuts down biking it ain their fault, its the councils.
That's just stupid and short-sighted. What an idiot.
Tossers that act like tossers f*ck it up for themselves and others.
They'll come back next year or the year after and find the area closed to everyone. How clever!
My current pet hate - and it might be because of the alcohol bans in main streets and cricket games at this time of year, I can't say for sure - is laws being made for wankers and f*ckwits affecting my enjoyment.
Look at the riot at AlbertTown this year.
Look at past years in Mt Maunganui.
It all means new laws to quieten everyone down ya stupid pricks!!!
Do ya want the drinking age increased again? Now what would be the best way to achieve that I wonder? Hmmm, try bottling some cop cars and terrorising some families maybe?!

At least you had a go John but I know how it feels to to try to make a dignified exit when you've tried to take a reasoned approach and ended up facing a hostile pack of idiots.
Could the area be closed over the holiday period? As a safety issue?

[idb]

Grrrrrrrrrr.......!!!!!!

[Pathos]

Hi Pathos, you got my drift in the first post of this thread.

The boys did take it that I was complaining at them rather than just letting them know that the area was always under threat by do-gooders etc

My annoyance at the encroachment on the ground by campers probably carried over in my demeanor when talking to them and they took me up wrong.

It is difficult as an older person not to appear to talk down to youngsters and I am conscious not to do that when approaching them.

They were not really causing any trouble but to continue and perhaps have an accident would bring negative attention to the designated bike area.

I did not make a very good job of approaching and talking with them, that was "my" initial problem not so much "theirs."

My initial question was "why do older people lose the ability to communicate effectively with young people"?

The people in the 4x4's up there today were not as young as the boys yesterday and they were a bunch of yobbos.

Life seems so complicated today. Cheers John.


The only way you could get those guys to listen to your is to become black and make some shit rap songs, about how you've got lots of women, guns, money and like to kill people lots. Thats the kind of attitude many of my generation unfortunately have.

I would have acheived just as much as you, its got nothing to do with age just the circumstances.

[Pathos]

That's just stupid and short-sighted. What an idiot.
Tossers that act like tossers f*ck it up for themselves and others.
They'll come back next year or the year after and find the area closed to everyone. How clever!
My current pet hate - and it might be because of the alcohol bans in main streets and cricket games at this time of year, I can't say for sure - is laws being made for wankers and f*ckwits affecting my enjoyment.
Look at the riot at AlbertTown this year.
Look at past years in Mt Maunganui.
It all means new laws to quieten everyone down ya stupid pricks!!!
Do ya want the drinking age increased again? Now what would be the best way to achieve that I wonder? Hmmm, try bottling some cop cars and terrorising some families maybe?!

At least you had a go John but I know how it feels to to try to make a dignified exit when you've tried to take a reasoned approach and ended up facing a hostile pack of idiots.
Could the area be closed over the holiday period? As a safety issue?

What safety issue? I didn't see any.

If there is one or they were being overly annoying to campers then I would have posted something else.

The biggest problem you have posted is that councils are making blanket laws that are affecting everyone rather than just the culprits. You can only blame the councils for that.

[Sketchy_Racer]

hmmmm

to me IMHO, i believe it is 90% the fault of the parents problem.

These kids scream and shout at their parents at home, and get away with it. So when they are out on the street they think they can do the same thing!!

Im a young teen, and it amazes even me what these little shits say to their elders!! i think they all need a good ass kicking!!

I was brought up in a very displined family. If i stood out side the line i knew all about it. Yea ok so my parents were a bit harsh on me, but it didnt kill me. Now that i have got a little older they can trust me cause i dont do the stupid shit these other young guns get up to, eg insulting elders trying to give them a litle hint.

Some times the shit some old people tell me is off the chart, how i shouldnt be on the road on my bike, Even though it is completly wof reged and stuff..
But i always take it in the slide and get over it. Theres no point getting smart back, it doesnt get you anywhere.

Rant over

Glenn

[Colapop]

I coach rugby to a bunch of under 15's. You can get the same response from them. It's a different situation, I know, but I think the communication thing remains the same. To communicate effectively to a group you must identify which members of the group have the greatest say with the majority. Then talk to them/address them individually. Divide and conquer so to speak.

As I said U15's are very different to 18-25's but I think the rationale is of communication is just as effective. Yes there is a generation gap, there always has been and that won't change. The difference today is that our kids have been taught to challenge everything, unfortuntely they do not have the knowledge and experience to understand the respect that goes hand in hand with that.

John, keep talking. For the 10 maybe 20 kids that get smartarsed back or shoot their mouth off, if just one of them learns something from you and it makes them a better person then you've done the right thing. Good on you John.
Col

[idb]

What safety issue? I didn't see any.
Four wheel drives & cars tearing around on a motorbike track maybe?



The biggest problem you have posted is that councils are making blanket laws that are affecting everyone rather than just the culprits. You can only blame the councils for that.
No, it's the fault of the idiots who can't control themselves.
Stop trying to shift the blame, that's what the idiots do.

Down here, until two years ago, there were annual open-air concerts at Millbrook Resort of some old band that had been dragged out of a crypt somewhere, had life breathed into them and put on stage.
They were the sort of band that didn't interest the idiots that we are discussing.
Creedence Clearwater Revival, Doobie Brothers, Chicago, Lulu.
They attracted an audience of a certain age up to around 10,000 people if I remember right.
The concerts became legendary for the amount of alcohol that was trundled through the gates. Store barrows packed with cartons of beer and wine, and folks just rolled out of the show at the end of the day and hit the pubs of Arrowtown or Queenstown.
In the 6 or 7 years that they were on the cops had next to nothing to do (SD might be able to confirm this) and everyone was happy, sunburnt and very, very drunk (until a local wowser complained about host responsibility etc, etc and got a stop put to it all but that's another gripe).
The only trouble I ever saw was from the odd younger idiot who couldn't handle the piss and got out of hand.

I think the Millbrook concerts demonstrated a few things about crowd behaviour but what would have happened if 'potential idiots' had been turned away at the gate? How would you identify them or would you just wait until they started causing trouble, ruined a few people's day and then tossed them out?
The only way to police these things in this age of personal liberty without responsibility is to apply the same rules to everyone, and unfortunately they have to cater for the worst and treat everyone like a potential idiot.

I think I managed to bring everything together there

[idb]

Some times the shit some old people tell me is off the chart, how i shouldnt be on the road on my bike, Even though it is completly wof reged and stuff..
But i always take it in the slide and get over it. Theres no point getting smart back, it doesnt get you anywhere.

Quite right, being older doesn't automatically make you wiser.
Lifes too short to worry about fools, no matter what their age.

[chickenfunkstar]

Of all the skills and capabilities I have had to endure and accept the loss of as I have aged, I think the one I feel the greatest loss, is the ability to be able to communicate on an equal footing with younger people. Especially strangers.....

.....Any suggestions advice thoughts or comments would be welcome as I feel this loss or deterioration of communication with younger ones is extremely disappointing and I'm fucked if I know what to do about it. Disappointed, John.

John, I doubt that its got anything to do with communication skills. No matter how you would have worded it, it would have seemed like you as an individual was trying to tell a group that what they were doing was wrong. They had decided as a group that doing skids was acceptable behaviour and that was that.

Its not just young people who like the odd skid either. I remember at the KB track day in Taupo some people were doing a few burnouts on the gravel on bikes as they left. The track manager piped up and said something along the lines of 'If anyone else does that on the way out, i'll ban you all from the track' Heaps of people who were still there shared a 'what a wanker, who cares, its only a shitty gravel driveway anyway' look. There was more than a couple of under the breath mutterings going on as well.
As a group, most people seemed to think that a bit of a skid when leaving was ok and any outsider who thought otherwise was a bit of a dick.

[Pathos]

Four wheel drives & cars tearing around on a motorbike track maybe?

If they take a risk with their own lives thats fine. If they give everyone room so a multi vechicle crash won't happen I wouldn't care.


No, it's the fault of the idiots who can't control themselves.

Well then our opinions differ. Of course if the idiots did control themselves then the blanket restrictions wouldn't be there but they aren't the ones that put it there because it was the easy option instead of more direct action.

[oldrider]

I have taken some pics of the area and am attempting to post them for the first time.

The pics should be.

1) Entrance to the trail bike area from the East.

2) Entrance to the trail bike area from the West.

3) Clear signposting "Trail bike area No Camping"

4) Trail bike guys using the tracks.

Most of the visitors have left the area today and the place is almost bare of campers and holiday makers. It's amazing how quickly they come and go.

On reflection I think we (locals) get a bit shell shocked at Christmas time, suddenly there is an invasion and just as suddenly they are all gone!

We also get a bit precious about our facilities and tend to panic about other people using them. Queer buggers aren't we. Cheers John.

[mstriumph]

.....................My initial question was "why do older people lose the ability to communicate effectively with young people"?....................

effective communication requires two things - if yours was ineffective and you had done your best to 'send' the message
then mebbe the intended recipients hadn't done THEIR best to 'receive' it

----- so quit beating up on yourself perhaps?

I hope the 'do gooders' don't manage to foul things up for something that obviously means a lot to you.

[Pathos]

after seeing those images of the track I really can't understand why you needed to ask the drivers to leave?

[Colapop]

That's a reeel purty spot ya got there John boy. It may not be your problem but a lick o' paint on the signs wouldn't go amiss. It'd make 'em easier to see. It may be a good idea to get some rather large boulders put in some spots to deter 4x4 crazies.

[Cookie]

My 2 cents worth - oldrider, in your first post, I think you were taking a little more than your fair share of responsibility for the communication breakdown. They just sounded like wankers to me who are brave in packs. Nothing that some tear gas and rubber bullets wouldn't solve.

:ar15:

Best wishes.

[Pathos]

That's a reeel purty spot ya got there John boy. It may not be your problem but a lick o' paint on the signs wouldn't go amiss. It'd make 'em easier to see. It may be a good idea to get some rather large boulders put in some spots to deter 4x4 crazies.
haha thats perfect.

Only problem is you'll need a 4x4 to get it there :slap:

[oldrider]

after seeing those images of the track I really can't understand why you needed to ask the drivers to leave?
Look again Pathos, I didn't ask or tell them to leave, I just tried explained that the critics and land grabbers are watching that space.
It is quite a big area. There are people who don't think trail bike riders deserve to have sole access to it.
I will try and post a pic of some of the mess the campers leave behind for which the bikers get the blame because the campers are long gone by the time the "inspectors" make their self righteous observations. John.

[Pathos]

A sad little story really. Such A beautiful looking track.

I think you're going to have to fight like hell to keep it with land the value it is and population growth.

If you could get the 4x4 drivers on your side to try keep it away from the land grabbers you could be better off.

[oldrider]

A sad little story really. Such A beautiful looking track.
If you could get the 4x4 drivers on your side to try keep it away from the land grabbers you could be better off.
Good point actually and even the boy racers too! They could wreck their cars (which would be good) and wouldn't do much, if any, damage to the area.
Constructive thinking that man! :clap: If you can't beat em join em. Cheers john.

[Motu]

I've always thought I've got on pretty well with young people - I've never exactly been a ''pillar of society'',and young guys don't mind hanging out with someone who's a bit of a rebel.But that was back when I was a ''life begins at 40'' type of guy,beating the teenagers at their own game.But now as I move into the senility of my 50s,''frankly,I just don't give a damn''.I'm turning into a hermit with a family....if I saw the guy across the road cutting his wife up with a chainsaw I'd just go...hrmph,and go and weed my garden...

[Storm]

Good on you for giving it a go Oldrider, ya did the right thing. Its not your faulty they didnt listen, but good to see you spoke your mind

[avgas]

Unemployment to be a trend? - What country are you living in?
Not a country...a generation thing apparently....

Sorry about that guys and girls......was just sick of dealing with people who cant be f'ed to get one of the 10,000's of jobs out there......government handouts are easier.
lol Darwin would be pissed :)

Oldrider, hope that you get to keep your motox pad for future generations....but ive lost 8/10s of the areas i used to grow up in. But only half of them were closed due to idiots.

Anyhow goodnight everyone, and have a good one.

[Mr. Peanut]

Any suggestions advice thoughts or comments would be welcome as I feel this loss or deterioration of communication with younger ones is extremely disappointing and I'm fucked if I know what to do about it. Disappointed, John.

What a bunch of fuckin wankers, you were right to say what you did! should've
takin some heavy lookin blokes with tattoos with you that would've sorted them out.

The bigger the group the worse they are generally....

Im 18 and I think thats bullshit!!!