I crash too much

[Pathos]

I can't understand how people can own these bikes robed in swaves of very expensive and very fragile plastic. my bike only has the front fairing left because it holds the lights/speedometer etc the rest is in bits and pieces in the garage.

Sure I ride the shady backroads and I'm a lunatic in town but if you don't you might as well be in a car right?

Will there be a point where I've learnt every silly way of crashing my bike?

Or will I gain a state of higher conciousness and awareness?

Or just get too slow and boring to crash?

until then i'm looking for a streetfighter.

[madboy]

until then i'm looking for a streetfighter.Loosebruce can do ya a deal on a lovingly cared for streetfightered TL. Brand new numberplate I hear.

[Pathos]

heh nah I need a 250

[deathstar]

Completely my fault and all but i have gone down on my GN twice within 3 days because it was 2 brand new tyres on rain and diesel, NOT A GOOD LOOK

[Pathos]

I just did 2 in 3 days too.

didn't notice the gravel at an intersection out of the city...accelerated while turning left... had to pop the gear selecter back into place.

The 4x4 pulled right, thought it was going to turn right...it turned left..indicator flashed once, wet road braked hard, bike threw a fit in the final meters. only a mirror but it was the new one, should have tried to fall to the left so it would take out the cbr mirror instead :P

[madboy]

Do you not assume that if a 4WD moves in any direction that it has only a 10% chance that it is actually going to go where you expect it will?

[Pathos]

By the evidence presented...no

It moved right cause it needed more room to turn :\

[Sniper]

Ha beat both of you, I crashed 4 times in a day once. Im an idiot.

[John]

Im an idiot.

Words are not needed.

[Pathos]

how do people not crash their brand spanking new 300kmph+++ GSXR1000K5 ???

or do the just shell out the cash each time they do?

[John]

how do people not crash their brand spanking new 300kmph+++ GSXR1000K5 ???

or do the just shell out the cash each time they do?
they just know howto ride, excluding dover hes just a squid.

[Merwood]

i never crashed :nya: but thats because i ride a vtr250 :wari:

[Merwood]

if only i had checked my above post before clicking submit i would not have sounded so retarded *ive :blah:

[Sketchy_Racer]

i wanna see some pics of this abused FXR.... maybey it will make me feel better about mine?

[White trash]

how do people not crash their brand spanking new 300kmph+++ GSXR1000K5 ???

Because a few of them actually know how to ride.

[DMNTD]

Because a few of them actually know how to ride.
...yep just a few:spudbn:

[Pathos]

Before my first crash (http://h1.ripway.com/quinnquinn10/mybike.jpg)

After my first crash (http://h1.ripway.com/quinnquinn10/mybike2.jpg)

[Groins_NZ]

Nice before and after shots!

Watch you don't get some of the electrics wet in the rain now the're exposed :-).

Have you had a few bins already? - on this bike alone or others too?

How are your tyres? The're not very wide are they, not so much of a contact patch on the road as bigger bikes have - just a thought.

Cheers

[Pathos]

Its a light bike and the tyres are skinny which I don't think helped much in any of my crashes.

I've got good rubber tho MT75's with plenty of tread. But I want a bigger bike for a bit more speed and wider tyres.

The electrics get drenched but no problems so far ;)

[Coyote]

Looks pretty cool all torn up

[John]

Its a light bike and the tyres are skinny which I don't think helped much in any of my crashes.

I've got good rubber tho MT75's with plenty of tread. But I want a bigger bike for a bit more speed and wider tyres.

The electrics get drenched but no problems so far ;)
then you will probably kill yourself, but imo I think you should go for afew riding lessions, heaps around in hamilton, or maybe just get a more experienced rider to take you around - and it doesnt matter that you have skinny tires - ever seen the 125's go around pukie? yea they dont seem to be affected by "small tire" syndrome...

Although I cant say much I have had my fair share of bins, and to be honest I am a better rider for it.

[Pathos]

Its not my riding or speed I just get caught out.

1st Accident: grease on a blind corner of the desert road
2nd Accident: didn't notice gravel at end of a intersection (looking for oncoming traffic) and accelerated while turning left.
3rd Accident: misjudged what a 4x4 was doing...my fault, not enough braking distance on a wet road.

You can't compare a bike on race tyres on pukie with a bike on mt75 on New Zealand roads. The race bikers know every like bump and slick spot of the track.

[SlowHand]

gimme an S! Q! U! I! D!

picture some hot nekked cheer leaders putting there bodies in weird postions while reading that.

[Mooch]

Hey Pathos,
How much attention are you paying to road surface? Perhaps backing off the right hand could help a bit while you get used to reading the road.
Suggest that getting a bigger, faster bike will only give you more pain / bigger crashes. How about spending money on medium / advanced road riding course before changing bikes. Take care!

[Sketchy_Racer]

Damn!! i cant see your pics cause you have exceeded your badwith or sum shit... but, yea dude ya might wanna slow down a tad.

[ManDownUnder]

Hey PAthos - sounds like your accidents are happening because of whats going on arond you (rather than what you are doing wrong...) and as someone else said - back off on the right hand, and pay more attention to the road serface and other conditions.

You'll get the hang of it - but a little patience in the meantime will save you financial and physical pain

[Pathos]

gimme an S! Q! U! I! D!.[/I]
I got 157kmph on the way home on new years but then realised the plumbing grease being used as makeshift gasket cement probably wouldn't hold. Ripped the gasket when we put the gear selector back it place. :msn-wink:


Good grief...slow down??? on a 150???

[Sketchy_Racer]

hey, i still have the rear fairing for my FXR..... if i find a suitable tail fairing to replace it, you can have mine for a very cheap price ;)

now gots to finds me a Ducktail fairing. Anyone with a RS tailfairing for cheap cheap??

[TonyB]

Its a light bike and the tyres are skinny which I don't think helped much in any of my crashes.

I've got good rubber tho MT75's with plenty of tread. But I want a bigger bike for a bit more speed and wider tyres.
Sounds to me like more speed is the last thing you need. Big bikes only have wide tyres to deal with the horsepower they produce. They may have a 190 or 200 section rear tyre, but even a GSXR1000 still only uses a 120 section front tyre. That should be telling you something.

Your accidents are being caused by a lack of experience- you haven't learned to read the road properly yet, and it would seem that you don't know how to react when you do get in trouble. Stop and think for a minute- there are over 3000 bikers on this site. Some of us ride well over 50,000k a year, some of those same people haven't had an accident in many years. We ride on the same roads as you, with the same dickheads, oil and diesel patches, gravel etc etc.

If you see oil or gravel on the road DON'T stare at it cause if you do, you WILL run over it. Identify it, and then imediately look for a way around it. Same applies to any road hazard- animals, vehicles etc.

Try to never assume that a vehicle is going to do what you think. Give them plenty of room, especially at this time of the year, when many of them will be from out of town and will be trying to navigate thru unfamiliar territory.

Anyway, keep at it. Keep your eyes open and make sure you learn from your mistakes.

[SlowHand]

Why did you post this. To stop crashing or to say you got big nads and dont care if you crash or not.

Have you hurt yourself yet. It is possible to hurt yourself really bad on a 150. Hell, you could do it on a 50cc scooter or a push bike with the right Darwinism test pilot.

[madboy]

Much along the same lines as previous posts here, Pathos, the road craft is as important or more so than the bike craft. I ride 3-400k a week, much of that commuting, in all weather, and I can assure you I take a lot more risks that most. Lane-splitting, speeding (not 150 speeding, but 636 speeding), tailgating, overtaking, undertaking, you name it. And yet the only bin I've had was completely self inflicted caused by excessive use of right wrist when unfamiliar with a bike with twice as much horsepower. Don't join that club.

It's unfair, and possibly hypocritical, of us to judge you with the very very limited understanding we have of your riding skills and bins. My advice is DON'T upgrade your bike. Catch a ride with one of the local Hamilton KB crew and get an idea of their thought process as much as their riding styles.

Then buy a K6 1000 :devil2:

[**R1**]

Get a bigger bike and run slicks, youll be fine:kick:

[Pathos]

Why did you post this. To stop crashing or to say you got big nads and dont care if you crash or not.

The former. I hate crashing. I want to buy a fireblade one day and not have to ride it like a granny.

Madboy you're the only one who really has made any sense so far. I usually don't do anything stupid around other vechicles I ride mildly hard out of town but always within the bikes limits. Upgrading the bike give my more guts up the hills, I'm not gonna try go round corners 50kmph faster suddenly, I can do that aready.

Its just a pain that a little bad luck and you can be looking at a $4000+ bill.

[Sketchy_Racer]

is your bike insured?? if so it is a write off....... seriously. The cost of the new fairings ou need are waaaaay more than what the bikes worth. not to mention the muffler and tank. Would it not be a bad idea to get it written off?? start on a new canvas?

just my $0.02

[madboy]

Its just a pain that a little bad luck and you can be looking at a $4000+ bill.Yeah, that's true. But making your own luck comes from keeping a damn good eye on what's going on out there. Seriously, assume every f***er wants a piece of your ass, you'll live longer.

[TonyB]

The former. I hate crashing. I want to buy a fireblade one day and not have to ride it like a granny.

Madboy you're the only one who really has made any sense so far. I usually don't do anything stupid around other vechicles I ride mildly hard out of town but always within the bikes limits. Upgrading the bike give my more guts up the hills, I'm not gonna try go round corners 50kmph faster suddenly, I can do that aready.

Its just a pain that a little bad luck and you can be looking at a $4000+ bill.
So what you seem to be saying, (and I could be misreading your posts), is that it's not your fault, you haven't done anything wrong and clearly the bike is the cause of all your crashes???

I'm gonna try this one more time. I have had three road accidents and one track crash. My first road crash was on my first long road trip- Chch to Nelson. At one of the one way bridges on the north side of the Lewis Pass I saw what I thought was a patch of shiney tar on a corner. Being INEXPERIENCED I rode over it- it was oil from blown engine. I ended up doing some road surfing. The oil shouldn't have been there, but the fact is that it was and with more experience I wouldn't have ridden over it. Therefore the accident was MY FAULT. With more experience I could have avoided this crash. Fat tyres and more power will do NOTHING if you're dumb enough to ride over a slippery surface...

Road accident number two happened the morning after buying my second bike. The first one was an RZ250 (quick 2 stroke), the second one was an FZ400R (inline 4, 4 stroke). I dumped it in some ice on a roundabout. Again, this accident was avoidable- caused by a lack of experience both on the 4 stroke (they have engine braking, which is what made me fall) and at reading the road.

Road accident number three happened when I allowed the icy conditions at an intersection to distract me. I didn't notice that an HQ Holden was running a red light. I turned in front of him and was hit very hard, flush on the left hand side. Again, I could have avoided this by being less distracted and more aware.

The racing accident happened when I was trying to hold Dangerous off at the hairpin at Levels. I pushed the front end too hard and it let go with a bang. I had already been fighting front end slides, but since D was about to get past I pushed even harder and paid the price. I should have known better.

Keith Code reckons that nearly all crashes can be attributed to rider error. I've never seen you ride, as Madboy says you may be really good at riding, but if you are still making fundamental mistakes with reading the road and judging traffic, then a bigger bike is just going to mean a bigger mess.

[Pathos]

Ok accident 1 I couldn't avoid, the greasy crap had been spread all over the road by cars. I saw a bigger bike (with bigger tyres) pass through without a problem.

The 2nd was because I didn't check the road yes my fault but I do think larger tyres could have helped.

The 3rd was because I was stupid.

But I said : Its a light bike and the tyres are skinny which I don't think helped much in any of my crashes.

not that they caused the accident.

I really want bigger tyres because the fxrs ones just don't have a big enough foot print when you've got it leaning over. A gsx's front tyre is bigger than my rear.

[Pathos]

is your bike insured?? if so it is a write off....... seriously. The cost of the new fairings ou need are waaaaay more than what the bikes worth. not to mention the muffler and tank. Would it not be a bad idea to get it written off?? start on a new canvas?

just my $0.02

it was insured for $1650 and the quote was $3000 damage.

They were only going to give me a grand after the excess and wouldn't give me first choice to buy it back. Plus I would have to reinsure my new bike. I couldn't find anything I could afford that was mechanically better so I kept it and it cost me $30 to put it back on the road.

[Sketchy_Racer]

hey.... i think you are getting a misconception about the size of tyres.

the FXR ones are great, they are a perfect size for a little bike. If bigger tyres were soo much better then the 125 GP bikes would have big tires, but they dont. The tyres on the 125 GP bikes (93 RS125 for example) have a tyres size only marginally lager than the FXR 150. I am running RS125 tyres on my FXR and work a dream. Normally the bigger the tyre, the larger the bike, the more of a bitch it is to keep it upright.

Sweet dude and keep on truckin' ;)

Cheers, Glenn

[Ixion]

You are thinking like a cager. Bikes are different. On a bike the narrower the tyre the better it will handle and the more you'll hold to the road. Think about it. What's the difference between a bike and a car? Bikes lean over, right. Think about a wide car tyre . Nice and flat on the road. , Now imagine tipping it on it's edge, like a bike tyre has to do. Think it would have much grip? Right!

And you only need to worry about grip when leaned over. If you get into trouble when dead upright, that's pure inexperience.

The only reasons that bigger bikes have bigger tyres is (a) they weigh more and small tyres would exceed their weight limit; and (b) the tyre has to be able to handle the considerable eat generated at high speeds (maybe up to 300kph)- a small tyre would overheat and burst; and (c) the horsepower that they have to transmit would shred a little tyre. That's why big bikes (almost) always have narrower front tyres than the rears . The rear has to put down the horsepower. It has to be big. The designers don't WANT it big, but they have no choice. On the front they only have to worry about weight (including inertial transfer under braking) - and maybe heat. So they can make the tyre narrower. If big tyres were better, they'd put big ones on the front too.

You will NOT get better roadholding or handling on a bike by fitting bigger tyres.

(I'm aware that this is a bit simplified - there are other factors, but the basic premise is what I'm driving at )

[Pathos]

You are thinking like a cager. Bikes are different. On a bike the narrower the tyre the better it will handle and the more you'll hold to the road. Think about it. What's the difference between a bike and a car? Bikes lean over, right. Think about a wide car tyre . Nice and flat on the road. , Now imagine tipping it on it's edge, like a bike tyre has to do. Think it would have much grip? Right!

Um no... Motorcycle tyres are round no matter what size they are. The bigger the tyre the bigger the footprint on the road the more rubber in contact.

In a straight line they're fine it cornering that I worry about especially because the tire surface is a lot steeper and more likely to slide out.

[Mooch]

Um no... Motorcycle tyres are round no matter what size they are. The bigger the tyre the bigger the footprint on the road the more rubber in contact.

In a straight line they're fine it cornering that I worry about especially because the tire surface is a lot steeper and more likely to slide out.


Mate, some people get it, you clearly don’t. People in this thread have given you good advice but it doesn't seem to be getting through. I think it's going to be your attitude that going to hold you back and lead to more cashes. Bigger tyres / new bikes won't fix this. Crashing must be the hardest way of learning. Hopefully there's someone up your way that can give you a bit of mentoring. You clearly enjoy motorcycling and enjoy the speed (quote 147kmh) but from your posts most of us are pointing out that you need to build up your skill and experience levels and stop blaming the tools.

[Pathos]

I probably am blaming the tools too much but someone please explain how a smaller tyre has more grip???

Yeah I know its harder to handle because of the gyriscopic affects.

[Ixion]

The complete technical answer to the "why" of that question needs an expert far more expert than I.

But, in simple terms, you have already identifed the answer, when you said that "Motorcycle tyres are round no matter what size they are". No, they're not (go look at the rear tyre of something like an FJR1300).

But, ideally, they WOULD be. In a perfect world our tyres would have a semicircular cross section. But in the real world, they can't make them like that . Look at a big bike tyre and you'll see that (like a car tyre) it has a shoulder on each side , then a "top" bit, rounded to a greater or lesser extent. It's actually a malformed "U" cross section. The smaller the tyre the more rounded the "top" bit and the smaller the shoulder, the closer it approaches to the ideal hemicircle.

The semicircular cross section is the ideal because it most readily deforms under the weight of the bike, and the cornering forces. Imagine a big car tyre. It's sort of two "vertical" walls, and a flat bit, right? Now imagine tipping it over at 45 degress and pushing down on it, trying to make the "corner" that's now on the road "flatten out" and form a contact patch. It's not going to "flatten" easily because the "corner" is very resistent to deformation (has to be or the tyre would just "ooze" sideways). And when it does, the contact patch will be small, because of those "vertical" walls. Now imagine a pure half round tyre. Imagine leaning that over at 45 degrees . Won't actually make any difference how many degrees it is, it's all the same on a pure half round, but we'll stick with 45 degrees. Now imagine pushing down on it. That half round is going to "squash" and "flatten out" much more easily than the "corner" on the wide tyre. So that the REAL contact patch , the one that is dynamically created by the cornering forces, is likely to be greater on a smaller tyre (obviously, there are some limits!). And the contact patch will adapt more eaily to change than the "U shaped" big tyre.

Ideally, of course if they could make wider tyres that were still half rounds that would give the best contact patch. But (a) they can't and (b) wide tyres introduce all sorts of other issues with the physics of motorcycling cornering.

If you really believe that big tyres are needed for adhesion, go to a bucket race meet and watch the 50cc bikes. They have teeny tiny tyres and they will be leaning over to degrees that you (genuinely) will not believe possible. Far far further over than any 1000cc with its big tyres.

It is a given amongst experienced motorcylists, that, other factors being equal, a small bike will always be faster through a corner than a big bike - until the exit anyway, when the power of the bike bike may compensate for its slower cornering.

I very seriously doubt that anyone other than a racer would lean an FXR150 ON DECENT (SMALL) TYRES far enough for it to lose grip. I make the qualification about decent tyres, because I understand that the FXR when new has shitty cheap tyres. Not shitty because they are small but because they are made of plastic or something and don't have good grip.

I'm quite certain that if you're crashing it's nothing to do with your tyres. A bigger bike with bigger tyres, you'll just crash more often, and harder.

[Pathos]

interesting, cheers for that.







...but I'm still getting a bigger bike :devil2:




not really in any hurry mind you.

[Str8 Jacket]

...but I'm still getting a bigger bike :devil2:




not really in any hurry mind you.

At the end of the day, its not the bike, its the rider..... Ask the welly gang that were on there "bigger bikes" trying to keep up with a GN250 over the Rimutakas. If you keep crashing a smaller bike you will crash your bigger bike.

[yungatart]

...but I'm still getting a bigger bike .....
Bigger bike + bigger tyres = bigger crashes
As one inexperienced rider to another listen to the advice you have been given - it could save your life.