Which First Bike

[Jantar]

There have been numerous threads on the best bike to choose for a first bike. Most of these are along the lines of "which is better? A tiny wee ultra fast Megasaki Rocketship, or a boring old looks like 5h!t Yamasuki commuter/cruiser.

The sad news of Korowetere's untimely demise after less than 2 weeks motorcycling prompted me to read some of his earlier hreads, in particular the one where he was mentioning his first ideal bike. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming his death on his choice of bike. But I can't help think back to my early motorcycling days, and how my early crashes could have been much worse if I had been on a faster bike at the time.

For that reason I decided to start this thread where the more experienced riders can give their ideas of what qualities a first bike should have, and to describe their early motorcycling experiences with regards to their bike's capabilities.

In my opinion a good first bike should:

1. Be easy to start. A learner should be able to concentrate on their riding experience, rather than practicing some obscure magical ritual to make the engine burst into life.

2. Be low maintenance. As above. A learner rider should be able to learn some basic maintenance procedures such as chain adjustment and checking oil levels, but shouldn't be required to have to complete an automotive engineering course to just keep their bike on the road.

3. Have sufficient torque to be able to pull away at low revs. A learner rider won't always judge throttle/clutch movement exactly, and will, at times, pull away at revs that are not optimum. The bike should allow for this.

4. Be neutral handling. A learner rider doesn't need to be able to flick through chicanes at full power and then stop instantly. But he/she does need to understand the mechanics of physically leaning using body weight, or counter steering to obtain the required lean. He/she also needs to learn on a bike with average suspension, so that when he/she is on a bike with different suspension they can learn to adapt quite quickly.

5. Be economical to run. The expense of a first bike, decent riding gear etc has already depleted their expenses considerably. No need to further compound the issue with a bike that requires a politicians salary to keep it running.

6. Be of a "comfortable" size- as in seat height and position of handlebars etc. A new rider has enough to contend with, without having to stretch to reach the ground etc (thanks yungatart)

7. Be unfaired. Most new riders are likely to drop their bike at some stage, and unfaired bikes are quicker, cheaper and easier to repair. (thanks T.I.E. for the reminder)


Any other thoughts?

[yungatart]

It should be of a "comfortable" size- as in seat height and position of handlebars etc. A new rider has enough to contend with, without having to stretch to reach the ground etc

[T.I.E]

ok i know, but it is a perfect, never ridden before, easy to work on, cheap to buy ( brand new ) easy clutch, no fairings. the basic learners bike. GN250. cheap, economical. if i had a child and they first started to learn from scratch, then a gn is it.

but the riders weight and size could be a factor that could rule it out.

but it's a great learners bike

[skelstar]

Im not real experienced but from a learners point of view the bike has to have a bit of go. Low top speed is fine, but everyone is going to have a go at overtaking etc, so dont hamstring yourelf but riding something underpowered. A V-Twin is also excellent. Engine braking is great for getting out of trouble, and the torque is great for getting out of corners if you stuff the exit speed up.

[T.I.E]

Im not real experienced but from a learners point of view.......

v twins are a great bike, not as nasty as a high reving 4 cyclinder. twins have torque and can get you out of problems a little quicker than a single, but on that note they can get you into trouble just as fast.

i'd be a little worried about that. it's not about speed or overtaking with your basic learner, but there is a catch 22 with open road riding, 100kph speed or open roads, and learners. something else to think about. they get geared up and then put on the roads with cages doing 100kph+ what do you do. you can't exactly ride with cagers due to speed, and everyone knows how much of pricks cagers can be.

this is about learners, they probably shouldn't be on open roads just yet, but riding around carparks is boring, and intercity riding can be scary if not worse than open roads. bugger. any ideas.

[skelstar]

T.I.E: you make some good points, but to be fair it doesnt cater for the guy/girl who gets a bike for, say, commutering, digs the sensation, and before they know it they have done their first big trip over some big hill and is confident in the twisties. 2 months later (actually less) they are quite competent on their 250 single, and are wishing for more. 6 months on a learners is a long time if youre riding more than 2000kms/month. Not everyone is gonna want to upgrade their 250 :).

[Jantar]

I agree T.I.E.

For the first few months riding a bike it is important that the rider can keep up with traffic flow, but overtaking should not be a priority.

[skelstar]

I agree T.I.E.

For the first few months riding a bike it is important that the rider can keep up with traffic flow, but overtaking should not be a priority.
True. But a young will try it on, regardless of the machine. The bike vs car superiority (traffic-wise) is quite intoxicating.

[Motu]

Yup,I'm pretty concerned with what's concidered a ''normal'' bike for a leaner to start off on - mind you in my day if daddy could afford it a learner could start off on a 750.As bikes have got more refined over the years they have become fine tuned for certain market segments...the ''do all'' bike has all but disapeared.I think the sportsbike is too narrow focused,especialy for a learner - all these crashes,all this moaning about road conditions,other drivers...all just pinpoints that out of smooth surface,signposted and low density traffic conditions,the sports bike is a very compromised setup...a touch of gravel,a ''tar snake'' and it's all over.A bike with a less narrow focus will take on any ''out of normal'' condition in it's stride.But it's oh so uncool....

[bondagebunny]

rocket powered - shit4brainsgofastski and go out and crash and crash and crash and dont forget to post all your dipshit mistakes in this forum so we can all be impressed, or amazed at your stupidity'.


Buy what fits, what you can afford, dont spend more than you are prepared to flush down the dunny, spend the rest on traiing , gear, and for fucks sake learn to walk b4 you try to run - or you will end up as another RIP column that everyone like to contribute two

[T.I.E]

T.I.E: you make some good points......

that is true but they need to start somewhere, starting them on a 250 4 is not a good idea.
that too is a catch 22, it is a big problem learners out growing their bikes at early stages. and 2 months of riding is about right. it's almost like they need to hire a bike for 2 months then buy one.
or put a rev limiter on a better 250 then someone can take it off when they improve. which is silly but not silly.

[Pixie]

That's easy.
A trail bike.

[T.I.E]

Yup,I'm pretty concerned with what's concidered a ''normal'' bike for a leaner to start off on........A bike with a less narrow focus will take on any ''out of normal'' condition in it's stride.But it's oh so uncool....

lol. uncool. unfortunately that is what i am hearing alot of. but it does not look cool. its true i have to agree the gn espically does not look good. but that is the price you pay for safety. dam looking good on a cool bike is shit if ya can't handle a corner or put a side stand down properly.

[Jantar]

Back in the days when I was a learner few riders kept their first bike for more than a few months. My first bike was a JAWA 175 which I had for 8 months, followed by a Suzuki T125 II (the equivilent today of an RGV) which I owned for 9 months before upgrading to a Suzuki GT250R (a true production racer back then). Then within year I upsized yet again..... Etc.

The point is that a new rider shouldn't buy a bike that will suit them for years, but rather they should be prepared to start with something easy, then upgrade as their skills improve. It will be cheaper and more enjoyable in the long run.

[T.I.E]

yep i think ya hit the nail on the head.

[Ixion]

I agree also. I think a first bike has to be regarded as a training exercise, to be upgraded after a few months.

The other thing about a newbie bike is that it should NOT handle too well ! Sounds odd, but a bike that handles well can encourage over confidence. Back in the day, a learners bike started to FEEL dodgy long before the point at which it really got into trouble. So the learner was more circumspect about cornering. A crotchrocket that tips real easy into the corner is not a good thing for someone who is just starting out.

And, like Mr Motu I also agree that a beginners bike needs to be a forgiving all rounder.

The problem is , as always, one of old heads and young shoulders. Beginners don't want safe sensible bikes they want FASSSSTTTTTTT bikes.
EDIT: Best learner's bike ever made - the BSA Bantam.

[skelstar]

Im pretty glad Im riding my bike at 33 not 18.
Funny...in a recent post I mentioned that my Hyosung has dodgy handling :). I also kinda mention it as an asset.

[stevedee]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. I do not know why beginners are instructed to ride on tarmac with road bikes. ( I mean I know that it is the easiest option but is it the best?). Tarmac is the most unforgiving surface and when first learning how to use the throttle, clutch, and brakes, it spells disaster in a panic situation. I was lucky enough to only ride dirt for the first 6 months or so, 30 years ago. I don't know why rider instruction does not take place on the dirt with hired dirt bikes for a few weekends of tuition. Then I think new riders would be ready for the road. I believe the first time you loose the bike for whatever reason should not be on a public road filled full of car/SUV drivers. Maybe the professional Riding Tutors should be pushing this not me? Even a skilled person will loose the front or the back end in the beginning, or worse not be able to hold a line and panic and straighten up. On the road you might hit a car, on the dirt you might fall off or hit a tree. On the dirt you will be going slower and have the luxury of reflecting on what went wrong.

I don't think that a learner’s bike is that important, obviously a large capacity bike is daft. I think that how you learn and where you learn is important.

Sorry I know many KB members don't or have never ridden dirt, and I am sure you could outride/outskill me any day, but that is my opinion. I do not want to offend anyone.

spd:-)

[T.I.E]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. I do not know why beginners are instructed how to ride on tarmac with road bikes.......


nope i agree, i also grew up playing on farm bikes from ag100's to xr 250's and IT 250's even xt500's dam kick start.
but how do we give them the opportunity to give them a blast out in a paddock on a shitty farm bike.
farm tiggy used to be fun. out on grass is a great way to learn. but the closet paddock i can offer is kaiwaka. and no bikes.
but good idea.

[Mr. Peanut]

:scooter: A 125 4-stroke scooter would be a good start.

Very easy to ride, lets you concentrate on traffic and road conditions.
Gets you used to the handling dynamics of a motorcycle, easy to maintain.
Top speed - 90km/h, fast enough for learners
Cheap to buy, easy to sell. Just about everyone is interested in buying a scooter, a non intimidating introduction to motorcycles.

What do you think? :done:

[merv]

37 years ago I started riding on a Zundapp moped, then moved up to a mighty A100 Suzuki. My love ended up being trail riding so after just about wrecking the A100 by trail riding it (bent rims, footpeg mounts etc - it just wasn't tough enough to take the jumps) I moved onto real trail bikes starting with an XL175 (I've posted a few pics of that on here back in the 70's) and while that was a fast bike for its day it succumbed to my riding speed as well. The steel rims dented too easily, the forks were too spindly and the wheel base stretched with time from jumping requiring the forks to be straightened every now and then. Eventually it shattered the rear hub around the cush drive rubbers, but the engine itself was strong.

Then along came the XR Hondas and I rode them for 15 years and for me they were tops in the 80's and 90's - light, fast and unbreakable. No matter how many times I dropped an XR I never broke even a clutch or brake lever and the only time I ever took a motor apart at all was to take one side cover off to replace clutch plates. They have alloy rims, reasonably strong forks and can take the jumps and not much sticks out so there is nothing to break. Compared to the older XL's they were tough.

What's the story I'm trying to tell. Well for 25 years I rode nothing but dirt bikes and I rode them everywhere and learnt to ride well (I think). In 1994 I bought the VFR and all the years of dirt bikes had taught me a lot and I can ride that quite fast it seems. One thing I notice being the difference between myself and others that haven't been dirt bikers is that I don't mind if the bike moves around underneath me. To a dirt biker it is natural, but to those without that experience I see a few panic when they do no more than hit a small bit of loose stuff on the road. Dirt bikers seem to be used to coping with the unexpected. So personally I'd always say get a small bike first, especially a trail bike, and learn to ride it well. Throw it around and learn to change direction fast, cope with unexpected slippery surfaces and ride so that you are in control of the bike and not the other way around.

These days we all want electric start, and for years no matter how much I prompted them Blue Wing Honda would not bring the electric start XR250L's here so I bought a DR250R (never liked it much after the Hondas) and then got the WR Yamaha. The WR is great, but its not the sort of bike you can ride for ever and ever on the road as well without worrying about wearing out what is basically a race engine. Well finally the XR250L's are available so I went and bought one and collected it from Motomart on Thursday to add to the stable. I'll let you know as time progresses how it goes. Those shorter than me (and I am a short arse) will find it a bit tall at 875mm seat height (but that is low for a trail bike these days). So even though I'm getting to veteran rider status I'm looking forward to having this bike to do a bit of general back country riding and would recommend the dual purpose type bike to any beginner as long as you are tall enough or else you'll have to invest in ways of shortening the bike like I did with my WR (put a shorter Ohlins shock on it). New the XR is about $9,000 (a bit steep) but there are many earlier imports available for less and other trail bikes such as XT Yams that would be good starter bikes.

So that's what I'd recommend, a trail bike (on the road a GN250 would fit into this category too), as they are light and easy to flick in different directions when you need to and you can try gravel roads and so they are good for learning including how to ride when the surface is loose. Once you've mastered the art and have learnt to ride fast and smooth, then move on to something heavier and more powerful.

[Motu]

Looks like us old dirt riders have the monopoly on what we think someone starting out should do.I learnt sooooo much mucking around on dirt for a couple of years,that when I hooked up with some guys to ride road bikes with they mistakenly thought I was a good rider.You learn so much more about machine control....and when ultimatly when you crash,you know how to crash.All the safety gear Nazi's will go on about how you have to have all the gear to survive a road crash - but I've crashed on and off road with minimal gear dozens of times.You need to learn everything,and you can't do that with a narrow focused sportsbike only riding on perfectly manicured roads.

[merv]

Good on you Motu. The other thing me and you have in common is trials (besides being short arses), though I only did it for a few years in the 70's. I never had the money to buy a proper trials bike being a student at the time so used trail bikes for it, the most successful being a TS185 which had an amazingly torquey engine, the XL175 wasn't so good it had such a short stroke engine with little bottom end grunt. My Bro' bought a Sherpa T350 when they were the bees knees and I loved riding that - just couldn't afford one of my own back when they were a whopping $1,325.

Yeah so I was of that vintage when you rode your bikes everywhere and competed on them when specialist bikes weren't so common, and I still like being able to get up and leave home and ride gravel and trails and not necessarily need to trailer the bike everywhere so I have never owned a dirt bike that isn't street legal.

[Patch]

Yip everyone has an opinion, and here is mine for what its worth.

I agree, a farm is the best place to learn. You find yourself in all sorts of situations out there and you learn very quickly balance and how to handle your machine, doesn't matter how many mistakes you make so long as you learn from them.

I don't think it really matters too much what sort of bike you learn on, it boils down to your ability to learn and the ability of your teacher to help you learn at your pace, on a bike that you feel comfortable with.

Speed kills - BS, its the persons inability to drive according to conditions, for whatever reason.

If they are a hothead, then they will crash, won't matter too much what they are riding. I use to be one, didn't matter what I rode - still fell off.

Stupidity knows not age nor race. Experience is everything.

I was taught, buy your safety gear then your bike. You will always find me in my leathers - always. At the end of the day, you make your decision for you, seek advice from those that you trust and have fun learning.

Here endth my two cents. :msn-wink:

[Ixion]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. .. I was lucky enough to only ride dirt for the first 6 months or so, 30 years ago. I don't know why rider instruction does not take place on the dirt with hired dirt bikes for a few weekends of tuition. ..

I also, like almost all riders of my generation, spent a lot of time riding rough - on gravel roads, trails, beaches, wasteland, subdivisions, you name it, anywhere an SL125 or TS250 could go. And I certainly think I learned an enormous amount from that. But, in reality, in Auckland anyway, this isn't practical any more. There is nowhere where a beginner and go and just muck around, finding how a bike works, falling off, getting into difficulties and out of them.

So the real question is what ROAD bike for a beginner.

[iwilde]

Personaly I think what I have is a great bike for starting out on, easy to ride and with the upright riding position and only 30hp I dont get the urge to ride like Mr Slight! At the end of the day it's all up to what the rider wants and what image they want. You guys may think I'm crazy but I'm looking at anything from a Aprillia, KTM to a Busa for my third bike (had a CBX750 in the early 90's with no licience!). But I do know my limitations and riding ability which I feel is more important than the bike in surviving on our roads.

[Motu]

And how did Aaron Slight start out? Off road of course.All the top racers,like Rossi for example,train by riding dirt bikes,it's harder on their body and teaches them more about bike control.

[T.I.E]

so best bike to start from, farm bike or trail (small) eg 125 is good, and where? in a paddock for starters. or dirt.

forget the road, and road bikes.

go out to the country and start there.

[erik]

I agree also. I think a first bike has to be regarded as a training exercise, to be upgraded after a few months.
Wouldn't that make it more expensive, not to mention all the extra hassle of buying, selling and then finding a new bike?
250 inline fours take a bit of getting used to, but provided the rider is careful I think they make fine first bikes. I've had my zeal for almost 2 years now, it has served me well.


The other thing about a newbie bike is that it should NOT handle too well ! Sounds odd, but a bike that handles well can encourage over confidence. Back in the day, a learners bike started to FEEL dodgy long before the point at which it really got into trouble. So the learner was more circumspect about cornering. A crotchrocket that tips real easy into the corner is not a good thing for someone who is just starting out.
I know what you're saying and agree that a bike that feels like it's going too fast before it actually is, is probably a good thing.
But I think that it is important for the bike to handle well in corners. A bike that feels fine in a straight line but tends to stand up strongly and go wide when the front brake is touched in a corner, is not a good bike for a newbie.
I know you're not really supposed to touch the front brake in a corner, but it almost inevitably does happen.

[Motig]

Well unfortunately a lot of you don't seem to have noticed that the vast majority of Kiwis now live in an urban enviroment and puttering around on a farm is not possible. And wasn't the question to do with the size of bike for a learner:Oi:
My 2 cents worth is that no more than 250cc and light weight.And by up to 250cc I don't mean a race replica with a powerband of a zillion revs but something like the GN ,FXR 150,Hyosung,SRV etc. In fact I've always thought car drivers should have to spend 6 months on a scooter before they get a license so they learn fear and respect for other road users:Punk:

[stevedee]

I don't think that it would be a problem finding place in Auckland it would not have to be acres of space. If the "basic handling skills course" were refocused on what matters new riders could get to the course in a car or a mate could drive them there. They would not need a bike for the first few weekends.

They run a basic handling skills course in Wellington in a car park. I guess after this the graduates can go out on the road and test their skills. Always seemed a bit silly to me.

spd :-)

[T.I.E]

Well unfortunately a lot of you don't seem to have noticed that the vast majority of Kiwis now live in an urban enviroment and puttering around on a farm is not possible.

i have been living in ak for over 20 years of my life, and alot of that in mt eden and central.


And wasn't the question to do with the size of bike for a learner:Oi:

"For that reason I decided to start this thread where the more experienced riders can give their ideas of what qualities a first bike should have, and to describe their early motorcycling experiences with regards to their bike's capabilities."

[Jantar]

Wouldn't that make it more expensive, not to mention all the extra hassle of buying, selling and then finding a new bike?

Actually it makes it less expensive rather than more expensive. An ideal first bike would be inexpensive, say around $1500, Even if it depreciates 20% in the first 6 months that is only a drop of $300. However if your first bike is a $5000 screamer and it depreciates at 20% in 12 months rather than 6 it has cost you $1000, or $500 for that first 6 months. Definitely it is less expensive to buy a bike that is most suitable to your capabilities and to upgrade in small steps, but often.


...A bike that feels fine in a straight line but tends to stand up strongly and go wide when the front brake is touched in a corner, is not a good bike for a newbie. . What you describe is a very good bike for a newbie as it teaches a newbie to enter a corner properly and not rely on brakes or anything else once committed. It also encourages the use of throttle to control any alteration of line rather than brakes.

[metric]

T.I.E: you make some good points, but to be fair it doesnt cater for the guy/girl who gets a bike for, say, commutering, digs the sensation, and before they know it they have done their first big trip over some big hill and is confident in the twisties. 2 months later (actually less) they are quite competent on their 250 single, and are wishing for more. 6 months on a learners is a long time if youre riding more than 2000kms/month. Not everyone is gonna want to upgrade their 250 :).


totally agree skelstar... that's me to a tea pretty much

I've only just got back from my second half of my holiday down in the coromandel (took the bike this time) and had a blast riding back through the hills of the coromandel and on the flats of the hauraki plains...

zxr250a gets my vote ;)
- nice and easy to overtake as required (squirt the power on)
- seems really stable
- doesn't seem to bad for gas
- not uncomfortable after nearly two hours of riding

however can't wait to upgrade as soon as 9 mths is up!

[Fireproof]

I've been riding now for about 3 weeks after purchasing an rgv150. I've already completed several trips between Auckland and Hamilton and tried to get as much practice in as possible. I must admit that initially the open road riding was pretty scary (yes i know im only suposed to go 70!), particulary riding in wind and past trucks. I found that intially i stuck to around 80-90km until my confidence picked up. The bike is pretty good for what it is but am already looking at maybe moving to a 250. The thin wheels don't seem mega stable on the open road and the bike being very light is easily buffeted round.
The bike is excellent round town and would be ideal for the commuter but im thinking a 250 would be a lot better for the long hauls. If i knew what i know now i think i would go for something like the gsx or zxr as a first bike.
(Ha, anyone interested in an rgv??)

[Ixion]

,,The thin wheels don't seem mega stable on the open road and the bike being very light is easily buffeted round.
,,

What is it with this obsession that newbies have with the thickness of their tyres? Is there so secret code that correlates tyre width with cock size or something.

The other day someone was bewailing the "skinny" tyres on his FXR150. I had a good look at an FXR150 today. Bugger me, the tyres are as wide as those on Phoebe- and she's a 500cc two smoker. Newbies, listen up. The narrower the tyres on a bike, the better it handles , and the less likely you are to crash. The wider the tyres, the more difficult the handling , and the more likely you are to lose it. Stop worrying about tyre size, OK

[Fireproof]

The wider the tyres, the more difficult the handling , and the more likely you are to lose it. Stop worrying about tyre size, OK

I wasn't saying the bike doesn't handle well but was merely pointing out the greater feeling of instability on narrow tyres (yes even narrower than the FXR). I have ridden a FXR and a 250 Bandit and noticed particularly on the Bandit the way you didn't feel like you were trying to balance on a knife blade. The thinner wheels seem to be more susceptable to minor ruts and grooves in the road, giving an uneasy feeling, but obviously that is due to my inexperience? I struggle to believe i would be more likely to "lose it" on some wider tyres, and by wider I am not talking ATV fat, just a little more meat on the tarmac.

[sels1]

My 2c - I grew up on small tailbikes in and around Wellington city and suburbs. There is always somewhere off the seal to play on if you look around....even if they are not entirely kosher (dont be nusience and dont hang around too long..:whistle: )
So yeah, I agree with those other oldies that recommend dirt bikes (street legal) for a first bike.

[hXc]

Well I've been riding for about a year and a half. I started out on an A100 for 30 mins - crashed and broke my thumb. 3 weeks later I had surgery on my ear so couldn't get a helmet on for a month anyway.

During this time I kept telling dad I was keen to keep riding so he went and got an XR200 for me and an XR250 for him to play on. I learnt the basics of riding, braking, cornering, basic wheelies etc on either of these 2 bikes and I think I'm not a bad rider because of this.

July last year, I got interested in bucket racing. Started off on a stock standard, partly stripped Yammy RD50. It was a dog!
Went from that to a TF125 dropped in a TZR250 frame. It was okay but had a fair few troubles with it.
Dad then bought a CT125 dropped in a RG50 frame. He then purchased a GS125 from Eddieb in Wellington and we decided to flick the TF/TZR and I now ride the CT.

I will be turning 15 in 3 weeks or so and have just got my first road bike (Picking up on Saturday). This is a 1989 VT250 Spada, I believe it belonged to a member of KB (Spada). I knew from the start while searching for road bikes that whatever I got wouldn't be a FXR(too small), wouldn't be a 2 stroke(prefer 4's) and wouldn't be a GN.
That leaves me with inline fours or v-twins really. Not a cruiser fan, so it'd be a sprotbike or a naked. I have been told many a time, "Get a GN, they're great bikes for learning on." The thing is, I don't need to learn to ride, I need to learn to ride on the road. I know enough about riding to know when something is going wrong and how to attempt to fix it. I just need to learn the road rules etc etc.

I'm quite happy with the choices of made while riding and have only ever had one serious crash (on the a100), although I have had 2/3 others where I got up and pissed myself laughing. I agree with the trail bikes to learn on and then maybe get into buckets as it's a fun, relatively cheap form of racing and it has taught me a lot so far.

[k14]

I will be turning 15 in 3 weeks or so and have just got my first road bike (Picking up on Saturday). This is a 1989 VT250 Spada, I believe it belonged to a member of KB (Spada). I knew from the start while searching for road bikes that whatever I got wouldn't be a FXR(too small), wouldn't be a 2 stroke(prefer 4's) and wouldn't be a GN.
That leaves me with inline fours or v-twins really. Not a cruiser fan, so it'd be a sprotbike or a naked. I have been told many a time, "Get a GN, they're great bikes for learning on." The thing is, I don't need to learn to ride, I need to learn to ride on the road. I know enough about riding to know when something is going wrong and how to attempt to fix it. I just need to learn the road rules etc etc.
Yeah mate, good call. Great first bike to buy, my first was a 87 VT250F, a few models before your one. Good bikes to learn on, really reliable and just a general good bike alround. Dropped mine like 5 time i think, all I did was break a lever once or twice. Hope it goes well mate.

[jazbug5]

Great attitude, hXc; there's a lot of people who could learn a few things from you, young feller.

[hXc]

Great attitude, hXc; there's a lot of people who could learn a few things from you, young feller.

Well I try to not be a young hoon, sometimes it takes over but what do you expect, I'm a drummer.

But seriously, I have been told by many people that I'm too mature for my age. Some person in the pub once thought I was 19 for sucks fake!

[ducatilover]

why dont the noobies write down what they want, then find a bike that fills the criteria? eg, commuting ----km each day in --------- conditions.
occasional rides through country or dirt or W.H.Y
and so on and so forth, writing down "fastest mofo i can get my hands on" does not apply to this, cos thats a stupid idea [i would know]

in my case as an example- i didnt write down what i needed and ended up with an incapable bike.
what i needed- a bike with the ability to ride long distances through the country. as i "commuted" atleast 140km per day.
so it would need to be comfy and relativly powerfull/torquey.
something easy to ride long distances....
stable in a high wind area....

and i made the mistake of getting a gn... which was slow and very uncomfortable and not stable. and riding it through country areas was not good for the fuel economy..

although it would be cheap to fix. and very easy to learn on...
so would a honda vtr250, which was out of my price range but nonetheless fitted all my requirements [and they look the shizz in dark red mettalic]

and maybe a mandatory training school would be a good idea also:yes:

[ducatilover]

Well I try to not be a young hoon, sometimes it takes over but what do you expect, I'm a drummer.

But seriously, I have been told by many people that I'm too mature for my age. Some person in the pub once thought I was 19 for sucks fake!
how old are you? at my course some people though i'm 18 or 19. but they were stoner fucks:confused:

[hXc]

I'm 15 on the 4th Feb

[MidnightMike]

I'm 15 on the 4th Feb

You must be the youngest member then.

[hXc]

You must be the youngest member then.

Mud_boy is younger than me

[brianemone]

my first bike when i was 14 was a dumpy old yamaha that i got to ride around in a paddock to practice (great fun back then) then once i was 15 i got a yamaha 125yb (might have been 150), this bike lasted about a year and a half but due to my ignorance about bike maintenance i ran it into the ground.

i needed a new bike and wanted something that was a bit more comfortable on the open road and a friend gave me an old gsxr250 that wasnt running so i took it to the bike shop and they fixed the prblem for about 500$ i'd say that this bike was the best investment i ever made, it got to and from school everyday (te awamutu to hamilton) and it never gave me any problems.
i then sold it two years later for 1k

i think the basics of bike riding should be learnt on a farm or field (limits speed and hightens awareness of control)

[Fireproof]

After riding for a few weeks im pretty keen on a 250, from my searching i'm feeling pretty settled on a zzr250. How would one of these compare to the Honda (vtr,vtz) offerings? Also does the zxr have much over the zzr apart from mosquito pitch redline?

[Gremlin]

Also does the zxr have much over the zzr apart from mosquito pitch redline?
oh yes, you can't touch one. I was on the power earlier than them outa corners, could see myself gaining, then they just accelerated away... :no:

better suspension too, and twin front disc giving them better brakes, physically smaller tho. Can't compare to other bikes, didn't have them.

[erik]

...A bike that feels fine in a straight line but tends to stand up strongly and go wide when the front brake is touched in a corner, is not a good bike for a newbie. . What you describe is a very good bike for a newbie as it teaches a newbie to enter a corner properly and not rely on brakes or anything else once committed. It also encourages the use of throttle to control any alteration of line rather than brakes.
It only teaches them that stuff better than a neutral handling bike by scaring the crap out of them when they try going for the front brake.
That's if they're lucky anyway... otherwise it can end up a painful or fatal lesson that might have been avoided if the bike didn't stand up so strongly when the front brake is touched.
zzr250's tend to stand up strongly when you touch the front brake in corners. My brother has one and came off the day after he bought it due to going wide into gravel (luckily he wasn't hurt much). Another guy on the site with a zzr250 had the exact same crash on the same corner as my brother, also on a zzr250.
Two guys on here, Flyin and Korowetere lost their lives when they went wide into the paths of oncoming vehicles (2 separate accidents). Both had zzr250's.
It's impossible to say whether the bike's handling contributed to the crashes, or if they would've crashed on other bikes too. But I think the zzr250's handling probably played a part.

I think it's better for a newbie to have a more neutral handling bike that they can use the front brake in the corner without too much trouble, and let them learn better riding technique as they progress.

[The Flux Capacita]

i just got my learners a little over a month ago and have enjoyed riding around on a kr150 and the only real embarrasment i suffer is the amount of smoke it makes when i go faster than i need to hehe

these little 2 strokes are fast enough to get you a speeding ticket but not to fast that you end up racing boyracers and getting killed...tempting as it is because i fucking HATE boy racers...anyways best to start of with something small and cheap rather than spend $4000 on a brand new 250 and if your lucky enough to survive, end up writing it off like a friend of mine did last weekend...i've still got my little $1500 bike and plan to have it to the end of the year when i can afford and be skilled enough to handle a larger bike

cheaper that way and you can't really be a cow boy on smaller bikes so you have to learn to ride properly (safely that is)

PS if any newbies just got their license in hamilton i'm keen for a ride coz otherwise it's just commuting :rolleyes: pm if ya keen for a cruise...because my mate who wrote off his bike has decided that motorbikes aren't for him anymore and he's not getting another one...SEE!!! just goes to show if you spend to much money on trying to look cool it will one way or another end your bikeing days before they even get started:P

[Edbear]

[QUOTE=Ixion]EDIT: Best learner's bike ever made - the BSA Bantam./QUOTE]






Couldn't agree more! Learnt to ride on my Mums Bantam, then my first bike was B31 350 BSA. :rockon:

[Hawkeye]

Single pot, 250 - Cost $100. Spent another $300 putting new tyres on and getting her up to road legal. $400 in total for the bike. Spent double on safety gear (that is transferrable to the next bike).
Not powerful enough to kill me but has enough power to learn on. Very light and easy to handle. The first bike IS to learn on. There is no need to go out and pay a fortune for something that you are going to outgrow very quickly.
I've been riding for less than 3 months but have gained so much on the little CBX. It is very forgiving when I get a little over confident but still has enough to test me.

Don't over analyse the first bike. It's not worth it. It is only a stepping stone and should be used as such.

[willy_01]

Na my first bike was an rg250, getting it to start was a bit....... interesting some times, with out power valves it was peaky as hell, and it was tiny! I road the bastard from Hamilton to new Plymouth and back without too much drama. I reckon with the price of 250's buy something with nuts because if you buy a scooter with gears it’s not going to let you experience the main joy of motorbikes - going fast! and its to expensive to 'upgrade' to another 250.

so my advise, get a 250 that’s ruff as guts, that goes nuts :yes:

hey that kinda rhymes

[Ulaa]

I think the Hyosung GV250 cruiser fits all of the points raised by the OP to a 'T'.

Im a newbie and happy as hell with mine. Especially the 220KM per tank I can get on the new Shell additive fuel. Its got huge Torque low down, starts first time at the press of a button, no fairing, top end of about 140km/h, oil change and chain lube is simple, seat height 700mm, wider tires than any other 250 cruiser so it sits solidly on the road, it has great looks (I get stopped quite often by people who want to ask about it), there is an online Hyosung riders community and its cheap, only 6300$ on road.

It has its negatives but on the whole Im happier I bought it than the comparitively priced second hand Virago that was there on the same day.

[mini_flyer]

But what if the rider has friends who have all got bigger, faster and better looking bikes...rocking up on the GN is good for a joke but it really really sucks when all ur mates decide to blast off after sum harley that flies past you while you and ur GN are left sorta of trying to hold back but wanting to go o so bad.
What bout the rocketsaki if you and ur mates go out all together...is it the whole safety in numbers thing??

[Jantar]

But what if the rider has friends who have all got bigger, faster and better looking bikes...rocking up on the GN is good for a joke ...
But when you hit that patch of grit on a tight corner, and your friends have $1500 worth of plastic to replace, and you have a $25 clutch lever to replace, who has the biggest laugh?

A GN250 can easily do the legal speed limit, and can corner just as well as those sprot bikes, so I wouldn't be too worried about being left behind. But if extra performance is THAT important to you, the look at the Hyosung, or one of the older 2 strokes (RD250, GT250 etc).

[Edbear]

But seriously, I have been told by many people that I'm too mature for my age.



Yeah, I get that too...:yes:

[Jamezo]

I *do* hate to whore up a thread like this, but.....

There Is Only One........

RG150

It's got everything: Incredibly cheap, enough speed to get you in trouble, and handles like nothing short of a 125GP bike.

In summary: Teh Win.

[grandpa_dave]

Like a few others I started on the paddock (or actually the race) on crappy farm bikes. Bailed off a few times by doing dumb things like grabbing a fistful of front brake or twisting the right hand too much mid corner, all of that is a few years behind me now though with a long period of no bike.
TO cut a long story short I got a VTR 250 which I have had for about 18months now and it has been GREAT. Did about 20,000k's in 8 months.
It sticks like shit to a blanket round corners (The pirelli sports demons might help) and corners beautifully. Took it for a ride around the coromandel peninsula and was QUICKER around the windies than my 2 mates (one on a '04 CBR600RR the other on a '03 Busa) although they did tend to pass me on the straights....
It now commutes in Auckland traffic daily and even carries me and my girlfriend on the odd occasion (not the quickest but still goes pretty well).
Had a GSXR 750 for a while but did the old lost licence thing on that and subsequently sold it again and am back riding the vtr, and although the 750 was heaps of fun the 250 is good fun in it's element aswell....which is to say Corners, and lots of them.

So at the end of the day, I would happily recommend one of these to anyone.

[ducatilover]

the vtrs are brilliant toys! if you want that wee bit more on the straights a spada gets the vtr...but i geuss its all a personal thing.

parts wise a vtr would be better cos i had to get my parts from japan! all i wanted was some brake pads and an oil filter but they had to get them from japan....:angry:

[Insanity_rules]

VT variant fan myself, I ride the mighty VTZ. The Spada is the evolved version of my bike and they just get better. Honda VT's R's Z's and spadas handle real good on Pirelli demons, I have a set too.
Parts wise they're pretty good too (www.econohonda.co.nz) so all in all a good 250 experience.

[MidnightMike]

I know i may be biased but id have to say the Suzuki volty,

Its easy to start, low maintenance, enough torque :scooter: ( enough for a noob ), handles ok, and most of all economical to the point of madness :shutup:, great size ( im 6' 5" and have mo problems ) , and no fairings. :blip: And its not ghey like a gn250.

[heavenly.talker]

only riding on perfectly manicured roads.


Just checking to see if these are New Zealand roads that you are talking about?

[heavenly.talker]

[QUOTE=Ixion] But, in reality, in Auckland anyway, this isn't practical any more. There is nowhere where a beginner and go and just muck around, finding how a bike works, falling off, getting into difficulties and out of them.
QUOTE]


Waiheke Island is a great place to blat around if you are learning. Hire one of the scooters or motorbikes just off the ferry, they go on grass, the beach, the roads, do jumps on the speed bumps, gets you around nicely. Great way to learn a few things. We have had a great time over the years going to the island for a day mucking around on these dinky wee machines.

P.S. My first bike was a Tu250 volty. Apart from being a little tall for my short legs, it was fantastic, we had much fun together. It was a bike that went everywhere!

[avgas]

TS185 or GN250
both will do about 130-140 lying down on the tank.
Both are vitually indesctructable and easy to learn.
Plus they hold value well

[ktee]

thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Everyone has provided worthwhile feedback. Thanks.

I thoughts looks were important when i bought my first bike! ..... We also made the mistake of buying one bike for the both of us! .... Kawasaki ZZR250.
As it turned out ... it was too small for hubby and too big for my small frame ... i.e being fully stretched on reach to handlebars, did not allow the correct steering capacity and me being so light ... the wind treated me like a ragdoll. Also unforgiving for a new rider ... as it is a sportsbike ... not good for learning the basic slow riding etc. (In my opinion)

After doing basic handling test, the chap convinced me to try a GN250 to compare ... I didn't want to because looks wise there was no comparison ... but I did buy one and was proud owner of two bikes.

What a difference indeed ... I loved the GN, how it handled, my position on it and it sounds good too. Still not convinced on the looks .... but I realised as soon as I rode it that it was the perfect learners bike.

After being sucked across two lanes of motorway and blown back across to the lane I started in (I did remain upright) .... I decided to sell the ZZR250 and am doing my time on the GN with a list of bikes to try after I get my full.

I agree that you start small, then upgrade, endlessly until one day you find 'THE' Bike ... and never look at another again.

Cheers