KB rides, the ride or the rider?

[chickenfunkstar]

Recently there seems to have been a bit of drama regarding all the crashing on KB rides. I've even seen a couple of posts which say that the rides are poorly orgainsed.

I don't really think that the rides / organisation of rides themselves have anything to do with the crashes at all. At the end of the day its the rider who chooses his own pace, regardless of the pace of those riding in the same group.

Sure i've had the occasional moment on a KB ride, but no more frequently than when i'm riding by myself. I don't think that i've got a higher chance of crashing when i'm riding with others from KB.

It just seems a shame when the rides themselves are criticised, as well as the people who took time to organised them. I always appreciate the efforts of those who do take the time to organise events. My riding has improved heaps, just from learing from those who are more experianced.

At the end of the day, surely each rider must be responsible for their own riding.

Apologies if this sounds a bit vauge, I am after all a commerece student.

Thoughts?

[Karma]

It's the rider... you have to take responsibility for your own actions.

[emaN]

At the end of the day, surely each rider must be responsible for their own riding.

Thoughts?


your thoughts seem to be inline with my thoughts

[MidnightMike]

Its definately the rider. Most of them may be pressured into trying to keep up, causing this sort of thing.

[Devil]

If only people did, once in a while (take responsibility for their actions.)

I prefer to stick to private rides 90% of the time.

[inlinefour]

but I dont think its a good idea to tarr all with the one brush. Shit happens all the time, its just as a whole, we are all finding out about it. Take it as the wake up call it needs to be and take it easy everytime you go riding. No rush to die eh?:crazy:

[yungatart]

No crashes on KB rides down here-but then we are all mature sensible riders! Seriously tho, it is up to the individual to ride at a pace they are comfortable with. When I ride with MSTRS, he on his GXXer 1100, me on my 250, he lets me set the pace that I am happy to ride at. I blame too much testosterone and not enough care.

[deathstar]

completely the riders fault, i haven't been on a KB ride yet but i know the pressures of trying to keep up with weasel on my gn when we head out and you start to take risks you wouldn't take on your own just to keep up

[bugjuice]

this topic has been covered a thousand times, and it ain't gonna die.
It's the rider of the bike. Always has been, always will be. That's the be all and end all. Who ever organizes it shouldn't wear the responsibility of crap like that. They have enough to do.

It's half the reason why I don't organise rides anymore anyway

[buellbabe]

Yep! you gotta take responsibilty for yr own riding and be aware of others around ya. I did my first KB ride on Sat and thoroughly enjoyed it, there was a mixture of guys and gals and each of us rode at the speed we were comfortable with, NO PROBS.:2thumbsup :rockon:

[madboy]

It probably looks like I organise a heap of rides, simply because I'm the one posting about the TRTNR rides in Wgtn each Thurs night in summer. But the reality is, I don't decide the route, I don't decide the pace, I'm not the one at the front, and seldom am I the one at the back. The GROUP decides. And as with any group, the more dominant personalities have the most say.

I know of one bin on these rides, an unnamed very experienced rider doing, by their own admission, stupid shit. And that's what it comes down to.

On the "touring stages", the fast crew go at no higher pace than what a 250 could keep up with. On the twisties, each rider for themself until the meet up point. It's when those without the skills or the bike try and keep up with those that have the skills/bike/road knowledge/whatever where shit happens. And there's a bit of luck thrown in too.

With the size of the rides sometimes there will be new or unfamiliar riders there. And I admit that I make an assumption they know about personal responsibility. Perhaps the organisers could stand up and give a briefing beforehand, including the rant about ride your own ride, take it easy, don't worry about bikes getting ahead, yada yada yada. But then where do we stop? Should we have indemnity forms to be signed at the start? Should we check the bikes over? Should we check license status of riders? Should we obtain written references from their previous riding partners? And their school teachers? And their parents? And a medical clearance from their GP?

I think we have to draw the line somewhere and admit that we're all adults. We're all capable of making the big decisions.

Don't blame the game, blame the player.

Disclaimer: No disrespect to any of the past fallen. Bins don't necessarily happen for only the reasons above.

[outlawtorn]

I agree with chickenfunkstar, at the end of the day if you bin it's your problem and 9 times out of ten it's your fault. But it is always easy to point fingers and use the organiser of the ride as a scapegoat for it. So when's the next slow/medium ride to Wellsford people????

[pritch]

If only people did, once in a while (take responsibility for their actions.)


In New Zealand in 2006 that would sadly be very rare...

[White trash]

I know of one bin on these rides, an unnamed very experienced rider doing, by their own admission, stupid shit.

And what a fuggin beeudy it was too.

The reason KBers crash on KB rides is simple, 98% of KBers can't actually ride a fucken motorcycle because they spend all their time on KB bitching about cagers/cops/speeding tickets/cagers/notwearingtherightprotectivegear/cops rather than actually practicing the art of riding a motorcycle.

[SVrunner]

I've been on a few KB rides one of the early ones was when 4 of us has stopped to let others catch up a couple were off ther bike & a couple still on when someone missed the corner & rode between us, no crash but it did show that a rider must look out for themselves & others who use the road.
Where possible the person in front of me has pointed out loose gravel, etc and I have done the same behind. This has helped me not to fall off.
The only comment i would like to make is that on a straight riders should ride staggered & indian file on corners.

[justsomeguy]

And what a fuggin beeudy it was too.

The reason KBers crash on KB rides is simple, 98% of KBers can't actually ride a fucken motorcycle because they spend all their time on KB bitching about cagers/cops/speeding tickets/cagers/notwearingtherightprotectivegear/cops rather than actually practicing the art of riding a motorcycle.

Hey WhiteThrash........ how did you get so fast mate:shifty:

[SVrunner]

agree with White trash about "practicing the art of riding a motorcycle"

[White trash]

Hey WhiteThrash........ how did you get so fast mate:shifty:

Pay me a dollar and I'll tell you, just like everybody else.

[bugjuice]

that'd be a good 'get rich quick' scheme..
JSG, pay me a dollar, and I'll tell ya too..

[Cibby]

safety in numbers....

perhaps people feel the dont need to be as vigilant in a large group and therefore careless...

It sucks arse thou.....

white trash - a dollar your way if you tel us.. :)

[White trash]

that'd be a good 'get rich quick' scheme..
JSG, pay me a dollar, and I'll tell ya too..

Sorry mate, you misread. He said "fast" not "last"

Beter luck next time.

[bugjuice]

oooo dems fightin wurds...

and i'd fukin loose.

[chickenfunkstar]

this topic has been covered a thousand times, and it ain't gonna die.
It's the rider of the bike. Always has been, always will be. That's the be all and end all. Who ever organizes it shouldn't wear the responsibility of crap like that. They have enough to do.

It's half the reason why I don't organise rides anymore anyway

I know this topic has been talked about in the past and I'm sure it'll come up again in the future at some point.

I still see quite a few posts along the lines of:
"newbs shouldn't be allowed to come on rides which faster riders are attending" or
"we should look look at how we organise rides"

If a newbie rider doesn't have the sence to know that he shouldn't be trying to keep up with more experianced riders on bigger bikes, then a crash is all but ineviatible. It doesn't have anything to do with the faster riders either.

[White trash]

oooo dems fightin wurds...

and i'd fukin loose.

Nah you'd be right sonny. Don't forget, I ride a HonDuh now. Slow as a wet week I tell ya.

[madboy]

perhaps people feel the dont need to be as vigilant in a large group and therefore careless......or they've got one eye glued to the tailight in front of them, and the other eye glued to the mirror image of the headlight behind them... instead of having BOTH eyes glued to the road that they're riding on! We all do it... gotta keep up with the Jones (or Suzuki's as the case may be).

[White trash]

...and according to my six year old, I know everything so listen the fuck up.

KBers are so caught up in the KB social experiance and doing the group rides (which is nice, don't get me wrong), that some of them have never actually ridden a bike by themselves. They don't go touring, they don't go see a mate at the other end of the country, they just do group rides. They're not learning in their own enviroment and they're getting a hell of alot of information told to them, most of which is bullshit, when they would have learnt it in their own time.

When was the last time Rider In Black crashed? Or Dangerous? Or Kickaha? Or Firefight? Or Bad Lieutenant? Or 100 other KBers that get out on their own and learn to ride.

Like that? You're welcome.

[justsomeguy]

If a newbie rider doesn't have the sence to know that he shouldn't be trying to keep up with more experianced riders on bigger bikes, then a crash is all but ineviatible. It doesn't have anything to do with the faster riders either.

I really want helmets to become optional by law and the "do not drink" labels taken off poisonous chemical liquids, oh and no warnings on ciggy packs either:yeah:

[bugjuice]

I know this topic has been talked about in the past and I'm sure it'll come up again in the future at some point.

I still see quite a few posts along the lines of:
"newbs shouldn't be allowed to come on rides which faster riders are attending" or
"we should look look at how we organise rides"

If a newbie rider doesn't have the sence to know that he shouldn't be trying to keep up with more experianced riders on bigger bikes, then a crash is all but ineviatible. It doesn't have anything to do with the faster riders either.
the idea of newbs staying off rides is fucking stupid. It defeats the point of being a/joining KB, and they will not get the advantages of being around more experienced riders. They shouldn't join a ride where it's posted as a med/fast ride, but then most newbs seldom do, so that's ok. There's often rides where newbs and -250s are considered and they're great. Who ever is leading the pack should make absolutely clear that they should be riding at their own pace. Or even do a buddy system. That could be a good idea for a ride, get a bunch of experienced willing to give up a ride one after noon, and for that one experienced, have a 2 or 3 newbs. I guess a bit like MotoRacer's 'n00bs' ride last year..

But to say 'stay away from rides' to a newb is fuckin stupid. You need to question your own roots if you start thinking like that. It's good to ride with one or two people, or even solo if that works for ya, I don't doubt that at all. It's just the whole anti-newb-in-groups that I think isn't right. What WT said also is tops (altho you don't know everything :bleh:)

oh fuck it, I've got involved with the thread. Sick of this stuff, but here I am..

[Zed]

Recently there seems to have been a bit of drama regarding all the crashing on KB rides. I've even seen a couple of posts which say that the rides are poorly orgainsed...I'm glad you started this thread CF, I've been thinking about this issue of late and have had several discussions with members & non-members alike over these holidays.

What I have concluded is that many who turn up to KB rides are *strangers* and have never ridden together! Now the experienced group rider understands that there is a higher risk riding with someone you have never met or ridden with as opposed to someone you ride with regularly and get to know his/her riding style!

Many of us are starting to be more choosy about who we ride with so a number of small 'clicks' within the membership have begun where group rides are organised through PM's. This is a good thing, and I have been on many such rides where everyone is comfortable with eachother, and the risk of binning is reduced because there is a deeper respect & understanding of one anothers riding. On the other hand, I will still continue to organise KB rides in future because I do enjoy meeting new members and riding with them.

CF has got it right - each individual rider is responsible for their own riding at the end of the day, the exception would be if another rider is riding carelessly or dangerously but in my experience I havn't seen alot of that behaviour on our rides. :shifty:

[chickenfunkstar]

the idea of newbs staying off rides is fucking stupid. It defeats the point of being a/joining KB, and they will not get the advantages of being around more experienced riders. They shouldn't join a ride where it's posted as a med/fast ride, but then most newbs seldom do, so that's ok. There's often rides where newbs and -250s are considered and they're great. Who ever is leading the pack should make absolutely clear that they should be riding at their own pace. Or even do a buddy system. That could be a good idea for a ride, get a bunch of experienced willing to give up a ride one after noon, and for that one experienced, have a 2 or 3 newbs. I guess a bit like MotoRacer's 'n00bs' ride last year..

But to say 'stay away from rides' to a newb is fuckin stupid. You need to question your own roots if you start thinking like that. It's good to ride with one or two people, or even solo if that works for ya, I don't doubt that at all. It's just the whole anti-newb-in-groups that I think isn't right. What WT said also is tops (altho you don't know everything :bleh:)

oh fuck it, I've got involved with the thread. Sick of this stuff, but here I am..

I mostly agree with you, however I'd probably go as far as to say that there's no need for the organiser to make it clear that everyone is to 'ride at their own pace'. Even when you're new, it should be obvious that you shouldn't ride at a pace that you are not comfortable with. No one had to tell me this and I never crashed because my balls were bigger than my brain.

The idea of a 'buddy system' is good but I still see the organisers getting some flack if someone does come off which I think is absolute bollocks.

[SPman]

Ultimately, if you crash, it's your own fault!

I crashed on a KB ride - (feck - sounds like alcoholics anonymous)
Weren't the fact it was a KB ride - was riding the same as I normally do when riding by myself - cos thats the way I treat most KB rides - try and set my own pace regardless of who is around!
I could have crashed just as easily riding by myself - and lack of miles weren't a problem - 6000k in 7 weeks prior! Basically, I made an error of judgement - which, in this case proved slightly detrimental to my health!

Everyone has to look out for their own safety, on a KB ride just as on any other ride. If the presence of other riders goads you on, outside your own comfort zone, take a deep breath and just say "fuckit - Im riding my own ride, as fast/slow as I want." Don't ride to the speed, line, style of the bike in front. Dont fixate on the bike in front! Don't try and keep ahead of the bike behind at all costs, if it is clearly quicker than you. Use your brain. No one (who matters), will think any the less of you if you arrive slightly later, or are slower through the corners than someone else..... the main factor is to enjoy the ride.

I've noticed the woman riders are usually much better at this, than the men! :whistle:

[bugjuice]

I mostly agree with you, however I'd probably go as far as to say that there's no need for the organiser to make it clear that everyone is to 'ride at their own pace'. Even when you're new, it should be obvious that you shouldn't ride at a pace that you are not comfortable with. No one had to tell me this and I never crashed because my balls were bigger than my brain.

The idea of a 'buddy system' is good but I still see the organisers getting some flack if someone does come off which I think is absolute bollocks.
I've seen people eye up other bikes and known riders while hangin around and chatting. For the organiser to then say 'knock it off' might remind them to snap out of it. But yeah, nothing should ever need to be said anyway. May be we should put postits on the bikes of riders who might forget, to remind them?

The 'buddy' programme was started towards the mid/late summer last year, but I don't know what became of it. I think Quasi was the president of that chapter. Since then, I think may be it flopped, or people got busy..

Either way, newbs should feel free to ask a more experienced rider, if they want some tips, or a buddy to ride with. It's just getting the right experienced rider to ask. When you're new to all this (the site, riding etc), how do you know?

[Beemer]

The old "monkey see, monkey do" theory - sorry, but if you can't ride safely in a group, don't blame anyone else but yourself. I've been on some really well organised rides where people still manage to crash, and I've been on some rides with people who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery and no one crashes. Peer pressure may explain some of it, but it's time people started accepting their limitations and riding accordingly.

[justsomeguy]

When you're new to all this (the site, riding etc), how do you know?

You use your bloody common sense.:blank:

Even a "reputedly dumb" person like myself knows that.

Just because someone is new to the two wheeled world doesn't mean they were born yesterday.

[bugjuice]

no, numbnuts. What I mean is, you can't tell if someone is an experienced rider, just cos they have rep and a high post count.
So aside from that, how would you know if someone you've never met, is an experienced rider?

[Firefight]

Many of us are starting to be more choosy about who we ride with so a number of small 'clicks' within the membership have begun where group rides are organised through PM's.





Why "Fight Club " was formed ?


F/F:crazy:

[KATWYN]

Been there done that on the big group rides. There was always
either a crash or a near miss on the group rides with other riders -
never on the 2 - 3 - 4 rider rides with riders I have chosen to trust.

There is always some excessive testosterone driven d*** on the big
group rides that ruin it for everyone else, so for that reason my
husband and I decided never again to ride on big group rides - including charity rides (unfortunately)

[mv.senna]

Why "Fight Club " was formed ?


F/F:crazy:

what fight club Dave??

[Yokai]

I've pulled out of KB Rides because I felt out of my depth and uncomfortable... This was nothing to do with anyone else on the ride, but more looking at my bike and realising that I was gonna push myself far too hard to keep up... and that I would prolly Bin it.

That said it did take me 1/3 of the ride to realise it... And I'm completely at my own mercy... Ask me about Tractors.

[justsomeguy]

no, numbnuts. What I mean is, you can't tell if someone is an experienced rider, just cos they have rep and a high post count.
So aside from that, how would you know if someone you've never met, is an experienced rider?

Once again, use your common sense. Bullshit always stinks, no matter where it comes from.

[bugjuice]

ok, I'll give you a new forum site that you've never been on before, or met the people before. Then, within a few days (cos you're new and keen to get out for the coming weekend), you're gonna pick someone who can ride, and ask them to help you out.. You could do that? and not pick the site prick? Some people talk the talk, and can't ride for shit. Some of the best riders just talk shit to wind people up. Other good riders hardly post at all..

[Lucyloo]

Ask me about Tractors.

So tell me about Tractors then........;)

[Qkchk]

The reason KBers crash on KB rides is simple, 98% of KBers can't actually ride a fucken motorcycle because they spend all their time on KB bitching about cagers/cops/speeding tickets/cagers/notwearingtherightprotectivegear/cops rather than actually practicing the art of riding a motorcycle.
In a nutshell, in a nutshell. Well summed up Trashy.......

[justsomeguy]

I've pulled out of KB Rides because I felt out of my depth and uncomfortable...

NOT REPLYING TO YOU YOKAI - to everyone in general.

Please do not stereotype KB rides as a general kind of ride. That's what's giving us our (fast growing) bad rep among the public and sadly turning more people away from joining our normal rides.

I've been on a ton of KB rides in the past year and can count on one hand the ones where people have crashed. There is definetly more good than bad to be had by attending KB rides.

[justsomeguy]

ok, I'll give you a new forum site that you've never been on before, or met the people before. Then, within a few days (cos you're new and keen to get out for the coming weekend), you're gonna pick someone who can ride, and ask them to help you out.. You could do that? and not pick the site prick? Some people talk the talk, and can't ride for shit. Some of the best riders just talk shit to wind people up. Other good riders hardly post at all..

You've pretty much exactly described my situation about 11 months ago. In time it all makes sense mate. One step at a time and we'll all get there. No need to believe, take for granted the first thing offered to you.

[bugjuice]

eh ?

[SixPackBack]

I have been out of the saddle since October and unlikely to ride again till early February. I have watched in abject horror at the carnage on KB rides and realised the most enjoyable sojourn's have been either by myself or with a small group of like minded people.
Large KB runs invariably are badly organised and involve either personal or property damage of some description.
Also in spite of the 'pace' posted for the ride, as the day progresses collective speed increases.
My holiday has given me the opportunity to study the KB ride mentality and it seems largely an 'Auckland' problem, again it would seem that the Auckland KB chapter excel at one thing only....Crashing!
Good luck out there!

[Qkchk]

If the presence of other riders goads you on, outside your own comfort zone, take a deep breath and just say "fuckit - Im riding my own ride, as fast/slow as I want." Don't ride to the speed, line, style of the bike in front. Dont fixate on the bike in front! Don't try and keep ahead of the bike behind at all costs, if it is clearly quicker than you.

I've noticed the woman riders are usually much better at this, than the men! :whistle:
On all the KB rides I have been on...... the well organised ones that is........ Everyone waits for you @ the next major intersection and re-groups, so YOU CAN take it at your own pace without;

- Getting lost
- Binning it

Just keep that in mind. Let the fast nuts go ahead and enjoy yourself. You have good riding days and definatly bad riding days, take it as it comes and adjust to your skill-level-of-the-day..........

[chickenfunkstar]

I have been out of the saddle since October and unlikely to ride again till early February.....!

How are they badly organised? I can't see what the organisation of a ride has to do with an individual's decision to ride into a ditch, or cause some other mishap of some kind. I've seen a fair few incidents on KB rides, some minor, some quite major. I cannot attribute one to bad organisation.

[Qkchk]

Shit.......... do I need to start putting a disclaimer on all my rides?

"Motorcycling is dangerous. The organiser will not be liable for damage, theft or person loss.................". yadda yadda ya..... :oi-grr:

[Qkchk]

Or as in a previous ride;

"will not be responsible for 30 hooning bikes in a 50kph zone"................ with Police involvement...............:innocent:

[Goblin]

In my honest opinion it's nothing to do with KB or any of the organisers of rides. Its pure and simple that with the fine weather, more people are out riding so more people will bin. Now Im still a nooby at KB rides and have only been on two coro loops with KB. Second time out there were bins but it was only people who weren't on the ride who complained and criticised. It's always and ONLY up to the individual how they ride.
Now I ride as much as I can through winter and summer and notice the warmer weather brings out the wannabes, all fired up and thinking they're bullet proof. These are the potential victims who need to realise that its not a race on public roads and that we share these roads with some truely fucked up people in mobile death traps. I reckon FROSTY does an awesome job organising track days and if you feel the need to prove something, GET ON A TRACK!!!! Pukekohe has open days so go and take out all that bravado where it is safer to do so!
Please ride safe out there....I dont want to read any more sad news:spudwhat:

[chickenfunkstar]

Shit.......... do I need to start putting a disclaimer on all my rides?

"Motorcycling is dangerous. The organiser will not be liable for damage, theft or person loss.................". yadda yadda ya..... :oi-grr:

Thats the type of thing that I was trying to speak out against. I.e. Each individual is responsible for their own actions.

[justsomeguy]

How are they badly organised? I can't see what the organisation of a ride has to do with an individual's decision to ride into a ditch, or cause some other mishap of some kind. I've seen a fair few incidents on KB rides, some minor, some quite major. I cannot attribute one to bad organisation.

Oi CF don't bite - he's fishing...... naughty fella deserves a spanking.:yeah:

You've made a great point mate. Look at the number of rides we've been on, hardly any problems and we come home with big grins.......

And by the way - what is this "organisation" you guys are talking about?? If you want formally organised rides go pay some professionals to do it........:baby:

Can't be the riders fault for binning eh?? Lets blame the cagers, police, gravel, decreasing radius corners, ride organisers, colour of the sky.........:confused:

[Qkchk]

Thats the type of thing that I was trying to speak out against. I.e. Each individual is responsible for their own actions.
Yeah I know, but there will be people out there who blame others but themselves. And I think we all pretty well know that the INDUVIDUAL IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES. Makes logical sense. User beware.

[Qkchk]

And by the way - what is this "organisation" you guys are talking about?? If you want formally organised rides go pay some professionals to do it........:baby:

The "organising of rides" is people who decide they are goin out for a cruz or a blat and wish to have company OR wish to show others a good riding route etc... shit, ive never been paid for organising a group ride (and I've done a wee few now) and I NEVER expect to be, but that's getting off the main subject..... It's all in the good nature of KB. We all have a common interest here and I have made some beaut mates from it. Bins happen. So do loss of licenses. IT'S LIFE.

[justsomeguy]

Can't be the riders fault for binning eh?? Lets blame the cagers, police, gravel, decreasing radius corners, ride organisers, colour of the sky.........:confused:


Yeah I know, but there will be people out there who blame others but themselves.

Oh - goody :spudbooge - can I blame you too QkChk - pleeeeeezzze - just a little bit of the blame, like a tiny bit - huh?? huh??? :laugh:.........:Offtopic:

[Qkchk]

Oh - goody :spudbooge - can I blame you too QkChk - pleeeeeezzze - just a little bit of the blame, like a tiny bit - huh?? huh??? :laugh:.........:Offtopic:
Yeah riiigggghhhhttttt............. so when you getting a minimoto? I saw you eyeing them up @ the Henderson race.....

[justsomeguy]

Yeah riiigggghhhhttttt............. so when you getting a minimoto? I saw you eyeing them up @ the Henderson race.....

Ahh.... I think I'll stick to watching.....

I prefer bikes that I can lap the Dwive :love: with..... 38k's of pure bliss..... especially under a starlit sky .......aaaaahhhhh:ride:......

Anyway back to the topic on hand- who did we decide to blame the bins on??

[Qkchk]

Anyway back to the topic on hand- who did we decide to blame the bins on??
You COULD blame me - I get the blame for everything around the house.........

[SixPackBack]

Another thing that needs to change within KB is the erroneous belief is that those that ride quickly are better riders than those that seldom bin........might be OK for the track but it stinks for the road!
Sadly KB rides are measured on who is fastest, rather than those who complete the ride unscathed!

[APPLE]

yeh man,it all cums down 2 rider ability,if yah know yor machine,wot it can and cant do?then yor sweet mate,POWER IS NOTHIN WITHOUT CONTROL?my pirelli way of sayn things.

[NotaGoth]

I'm not reading through this whole thread, but having known someone who has been "blamed" for crashes on rides that they have organised.. Maybe people should take responsibility for their own actions rather than trying to put blame on someone else and claiming its a poorly organized ride.. I mean.. If your gonna start pointing the finger and playing the blame game who in their right mind would wanna organize any rides in future for KB members when they are then going to be blamed if anyone craps off..?

[White trash]

Another thing that needs to change within KB is the erroneous belief is that those that ride quickly are better riders than those that seldom bin........

And what if you can do both? Does that make someone a super hero? Like me?

[SixPackBack]

And what if you can do both? Does that make someone a super hero? Like me?

Well yes I suppose it does Jimmy, however.....Riff Raff informed us about your inverted member and the 'tweaser' episode and now instead of awe, fellow KBers snigger and point not knowing whether to laugh or cry!

[Patch]

Yep! you gotta take responsibilty for yr own riding and be aware of others around ya. I did my first KB ride on Sat and thoroughly enjoyed it, there was a mixture of guys and gals and each of us rode at the speed we were comfortable with, NO PROBS.:2thumbsup :rockon:

Was a nice too, riding with you all, from the short time I tagged along.

Was sort of wimped ass'd nancy boy is goin' blame the organiser cause he/she has the inability to judge riding conditions to suit their style - some people fukin wimps. :rockon:

[Gremlin]

Its simple init?? We could organise rides with road captains, no overtaking each other, no speeding and so on. Nobody would ride on them.

Group riding is about the social aspect at the stops I reckon. Take some responsibility for your own actions, simple.

Personally, when actually riding, I like to ride alone, then have a yarn about the section at the next stop, corners, cars whatever, thats what group rides are to me. Also, asking questions of people who have a certain bike, or how people tackled problems, so on.

Not to bash the newbies, but I think we do need to watch them. Stop them going faster than they should be. You simply haven't had enough practice at controlling oh shit moments yet. Newbie rides are good for that.

Ultimately, ride your own ride, and stop piling political shit into the ride, making them unattractive to organise or attend.

[Hitcher]

I feel sorry for those with good intentions who organise group rides. Dozens roll up, walk around each other's bikes like dogs meeting on the beach. Testosterone levels rise as they wait for the starter to release the hare.

Organiser gives mandatory safefy schpiel, sends "fast" riders off first, stresses need for people to ride safely and within their own limits, being courteous, not to harass kindy mums in RAV4s, etc. Rising testosterone levels facilitate selective hearing and partial deafness. For some, this message translates as "Get your cock out, go like stink and impress the Big Squids on their Gixxer thous".

Le Mans start. Chaos and carnage ensues. Bikers getting overtaken by others on blind corners, or up the inside on blind corners, wheelie and stoppie competitions, roll-ons, the whole 8.23 metres. Extremely intimidating, even for those with strong stomachs and low testosterone.

I now don't do big group rides. They're intimidating and unsafe. I only ride with people I trust and respect.

I feel sorry for those with good intentions who organise group rides.

[The_Dover]

i blame the turkeys, sunstrike and gravel mainly.

[Virago]

.........the whole 8.23 metres....
It took a while, but eventually the 0.83333 cent dropped....:slap:

[inlinefour]

And what a fuggin beeudy it was too.

The reason KBers crash on KB rides is simple, 98% of KBers can't actually ride a fucken motorcycle because they spend all their time on KB bitching about cagers/cops/speeding tickets/cagers/notwearingtherightprotectivegear/cops rather than actually practicing the art of riding a motorcycle.

So on that theory, you have about twice as many posts as I, so your twice as bad a rider as me? (pt):killingme

[trumpy]

....... Let the fast nuts go ahead and enjoy yourself. You have good riding days and definatly bad riding days, take it as it comes and adjust to your skill-level-of-the-day..........

Exactly. Pretty simple really.
(probably a little rich coming from someone who has never been on a KB ride but sometimes logic is pretty simple)

[Kornholio]

So on that theory, you have about twice as many posts as I, so your twice as bad a rider as me? (pt):killingme

Na, it just means that he spends too much time on this site and has no skill on a bike :wari:

[RiderInBlack]

OK, here's my two pence:

Group rides can tend to bring out the "Got to be first/Don't want to be last or left behind" in many riders (I'll own it, gets me too. I hate being left behind).

Good group riders I have been on have the following:

A lead Biker that is will to stop at intersections and wait for the group to re:group before moving on. This Biker is not often the fastest.

Tailend Charlie Rider who know where the lend is going and is happy to lookout for the strugglers. This rider is often a compedent rider who can ride hard if they want to be is happy to cruise.

The very best rides I have ridden on (Mainly run by HD MC's) have Points-man that know where the lead is going. They are fast compedent riders. They wait on corners for the slower riders to point the way and then ride to catch the lead. This allows the Lead to ride without having to stop at very corner.

The group has an understanding that they can ride at the pace they prefur as long as they don't pass the lead and let the pointsmen pass.

The group knows how many riders are with them and are prepared to look for the missing.

I have had a lot of fun on Poker Runs because of this. The pace has not be too slow and everbody has had fun.

The last big KB ride I went on put me off these rides because:

Too many try hards trying to prove a point and not think about the other riders around them.
Leads taking off without having someone to clearly mark the turn-offs.
Riders holding up riders.
Riders taking risky moves to pass the above.

One last thing: If a rider is gaining on you, don't try holding him/her off. Make it easy for them to pass (eg. pull over to the left and hold that line). If you are ready as good as you think you are, you will easily keep up with them. Don't try to hard to do so. Ride your own ride.
If you're a passing rider, find a safe place to pass (do not undertake, and please don't take on a blind corner) and be prepared to wait for the group at intersections. Being the first to arrive anywhere doesn't make you a good or cool rider.

End of rant.

[aff-man]

*disclaimer*

I ride for fun. If I want company i post it up here. If you decide to come along you do so at your own risk. If you ride past your abilities and bin it's your fault. Shinanigans and a brisk pace may be set. IT's not showing off it's all part of my riding. Again if these are attempted and you don't have enough self control to know where your own ability ends then it's your fault if you bin.

*end disclaimer*


I can't believe i'm gonna say this but i actually agree with jimmy:shit: . I've been turned off from group rides cause my riding style gets frowned apon. Though I let other bikers pass if i am holding them up and I pass people making sure i don't impede thier riding....... I sometimes do push the envelope but not so i don't have an out or feel uncomfortable with my riding so although i wish i could i don't try and keep up with some of the faster guys i ride with. Find someone of my own or sililar pace and stick with them. If there is no-one on the ride that matches that discription then I ride alone and see the rest at each turn off...

[robnz]

well i can honestly say i have no need to be at the front. I know im not fast enough and my bike is not fast enough. i'm happy riding at my own pace. I don't even mind being road sweeper in a group ride. i want to enjoy the ride, come home safely and tell my mates about it, holding a drink in my hand and not from a hospital bed or worse not telling the story at all.

[2much]

Crashing isn't limited to just KB rides, I've been on non-KB rides and seen crashes as well..... I'm sure none of those crashes got this over-analysed and caused so much debate.

Unfortunately it's a fact of life that shit happens, get over it. Everyone seems to agree that the responsibility falls directly on the rider themselves and noone else. I can't see how you could blame the organiser/s of the ride, and if someone does attempt to, they need to pull their fucking head out of their arse and wake the fuck up.

[White trash]

Your like a biker demi-god. You do know everything.
Well said.

(You missed me, I havnt crashed on a KB ride but prolly cause Im soft or dont have a licence).

Also missed Quasi, SpankMe, Hayden, V-Twin, Dafe and alot of others. Can't remember everyone sorry mate.

And yeah, no licence will keep you upright.

[Firefight]

A rariety but none the less a mistake.

well spotted, not often we catch him out, tried to rep ya but musta given ya two many lately..


F/F

[bugjuice]

Also missed Quasi, SpankMe, Hayden, V-Twin, Dafe and alot of others. Can't remember everyone sorry mate.

And yeah, no licence will keep you upright.
I haven't crashed yet.. *touches my wood*
it hurts apparently. Don't want to find out.

[RnB Fan]

As a noobie that hasn't been riding, or using this site, for long I have found this thread really interesting. I have only been on one non-KB ride and I was way slower than the other bikes. I realised very early on that I couldn't keep up and so decided not to even try. Personally I put it down to age and life experience. I know that if I fall off it will hurt! I fully support the idea of everybody taking responsibility for themself on the road, ensuring they look after themselves first but also keeping an eye out for those of lesser experience or ability. I look forward to attending my first KB ride sometime in the future and in the meantime will continue to ride on my own to gain experience.

[RiderInBlack]

tried to rep ya but musta given ya two many lately..


F/FShe's right F/F. Rep SMedic on you behalf.

[Firefight]

She's right F/F. Rep SMedic on you behalf.



thanks Doug.

F/F

[Yokai]

People I will definitely ride with again in no particular order-

SpeedMedic Frosty TS Riff-Raff MikeL 6Chris6 Mr Skidz Placid Gareth_d Lucyloo PT (when he gets back) Milky Devil CibbyChick Vifferman Fish(if he's around)

Probably a bunch more... Note that these people have very different styles and skills... some have been riding a lot longer than I and some have been riding about the same. These are people that I have ridden with or have been around and know that they will ride the way they ride and I feel comfortable with them.

If we are going to really be organised about rides, then we should

a) put maps out first on the site
b) state the type of ride as a combination of skill and speed:
Guru Warp
Master Blat
Acolyte Cafe
Neophyte Slow
Innocent Skillz

i.e if you want to go for a medium pace ride but you only want superior riders then you'd look for a Master or Guru Cafe ride...

c) prep a tail-end charlie first (the day before) with the first-aid kit (cellphone), map and a fluoro shirt...

d) on a ride make sure that there is someone who is willing to ride at the slowest pace (or take it in turns)

It's all a bit like hard work and loses a lot of the spontaneity but then if a ride was organised like this some of the newer people (or those who want to stretch themselves) would feel safer perhaps.
Also some would learn that they are not as advanced as they think they are in the grand scheme of things....

*plink plink fizzzzzz*

[Zed]

People I will definitely ride with again in no particular order-I could list the few riders that I would rather not ride with, but the list of would-ride-withs is probably too long for this post!


If we are going to really be organised about rides, then we should...

...It's all a bit like hard work and loses a lot of the spontaneity but then if a ride was organised like this some of the newer people (or those who want to stretch themselves) would feel safer perhaps.
Also some would learn that they are not as advanced as they think they are in the grand scheme of things....U been hanging around the Ulysses clubrooms again man? Some of those points you raised are already being exercised on our rides, often we are even accompanied by a real life nurse too (Draco, Keystone)!

I do think if we start enforcing more rules & procedures on KB rides the liberty we currently enjoy to 'do our own thing' will be diminished. Part of why i enjoy KB rides is because they are not too regimented, and most I have ridden with agree! :ride:

Perhaps some would feel safer though Yokai...

[NhuanH]

People I will definitely ride with again in no particular order-
...
Mr Skidz
...
I feel comfortable with them.

:rofl: :clap: :confused:
thanks for the mid-afternoon entertainment dude! Lemme just put my sides back in...

[SPman]

:rofl: :clap: :confused:
thanks for the mid-afternoon entertainment dude! Lemme just put my sides back in...
...wait til he gets his 600 sprots bike.........:wait:

[chickenfunkstar]

People I will definitely ride with again in no particular order-
..........
*plink plink fizzzzzz*

Dude, I do agree with the first part of your post about the people who you would ride with. I'd bet that those riders show courtesy towards you, even though they're most likley a lot faster than you?

I don't however agree about over organising everything else. I don't think that there's a need for maps, specific speed groups and fluro vests etc. Waiting up at major intersections sure. But this could be classed as respecting other riders.

It would seem that quite a few of the senoir members prefer not to do general KB rides. From reading what they have posted, both in this thread and in previous threads, it would seem that their main concern is a lack of courtesy shown to them. This seems a shame, as I sure they've got lots of experiance and knowledge which others could learn from.

Whenver i'm riding in a group I do try to show courtesy and respect to the people that i'm riding with and it is appreciated when it is shown back. I do screw up occasionaly with regards to this, but its usually the exeption rather than the rule.

I can't recall seeing too many posts on this, particularly as opposed to the 'slow down' 'ride your own pace' 'keep speed groups separate' type posts.

[Firefight]

It would seem that quite a few of the senoir members prefer not to do general KB rides. From reading what they have posted, both in this thread and in previous threads, it would seem that their main concern is a lack of courtesy shown to them. This seems a shame, as I sure they've got lots of experiance and knowledge which others could learn from.



can't talk for others, but my point of view, I do like to ride in the smaller groups with selected riders I know and trust, and that ride at my pace (whatever that is)hence the formation of "Fight Club"

However I am also happy to do a ride with newer riders from time to time, these rides are also organised by pm, the reason's for this.

1) Too many newer riders not enuff one on one coaching

2) Sometimes we get faster riders who offer to help are of no help
and only want to show off in front of the newbies.

3) Time factor, the more riders you have, the more fuck arsing around getting
going after a stop(same as most big KB riders)

so even if there are no big posts about these rides, they are still happening or were up till nov last year


In the past when I have put up notices about rides and indicated that it would suit faster riders only I have been critised(sp?) so what the fuck, now we do it mostly by pm or txt

In regards to the big group kb rides, its not because of safety that I don't go, its just the fuck arsing around, and time wasted..

each to there own I guess !

firefight

[Teflon]

you can't blame the person who organizers the ride, they are not there to baby sit.. and like fuck im letting someone tell me what i can and can't do.

[myvice]

The last KB ride I was on I binned my bike.
I probably go on average about two group rides a month, very really is it a KB one, and am always pushing every last drop out of my bike.
It was my own fault I crashed where and when I did, its not the first crash I've had because I was pushing too hard, and I cant hold, nor do I want to hold anyone or thing responsible for it. Least of all the organiser of the ride or the club!
I am very grateful for the assistance of the others in the group and it has made me realise just how much of a benefit, and a safety net a group ride can be.
So I've cut back on the solo rides, keeps my wife happier too!
As for the newby debate, we all started somewhere, I learnt on a dirt track about 20 years ago chasing mates around on a 80cc farm bike then raced a RM125 against them. And now I chase others on bigger better bikes and try and keep them honest, As we can see that’s not how it always pans out!
Some of us started on the road 20-30-40+ yeas ago and have a lot of experience that can be passed on to the newer riders amongst us.
To anyone reading this and thinking, "Well, he had it coming" your right, I did, I had been warned I was pushing my bike well past what it had been built for. Shopping for a new one now, its about 6 months away yet tho...
Its not all ways the newer ones who crash ether, and when they do it’s usually at a slower speed than the ones with a few more miles beneath them.
Stupider accidents tho… “Imustnothitthatrockthatisheadingformyfrontwheel…… …………BANG!
Fuckin mastered that one!
The reasons that it is becoming more common (the crash report) is that Kiwi Biker is now a rather large entity, and its now summer so the groups are larger, the roads still suck, 22 is getting worse! Things come in waves. It will all be over in a little while, people will be back at work, etc.
Ride safe, there out to get us you know!

[boomer]

i've met some wicked people from the site and just as in life you know who you want to ride with and dont.

KB rides are awesome, a great place for noobs like me to learn and get out to see parts of teh country i've never seen or would see;

i've seen people get a slap if they do something crazy and would expect the same if i were to endanger any one else; The onus is on teh rider.. no one else.


what fight club Dave??:yeah:

[Karma]

If we're worried about the state of newer riders then why not doing something about it?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=468970#post468970

[marty]

i've been on only one kb ride, but i've ridden with a few kbers, and a few other mates. sure i have a fast bike, but i'm not that fast a rider - i like my bike shiny and scratch free, so if the cbrs and gxxers are getting away on me, then good on em, i'll catch them up at the next stop/pub/cafe. it's nice sometimes to be out in front - open roads, no-one about, til a yellow bumble bee or two fly past........let 'em go, get over it. why suddenly add 30-40 km/h to your speed (that you're obviously happy with) just to keep up?

[Yokai]

I do think if we start enforcing more rules & procedures on KB rides the liberty we currently enjoy to 'do our own thing' will be diminished. Part of why i enjoy KB rides is because they are not too regimented, and most I have ridden with agree! :ride:

I agree. I totally agree - it is the rider's responsibility to ride within their limits. But it is also the rider's responsibility to not place others in a situation that might be damaging to them.

I like the "do your own thing". I think it is cool that we are like that. I do think that a map on the site of the route that we are doing would be good - especially if we know of some issues (SH22 gravel thing that binned one rider for example)...

I'm known for doing my own pace and my own thing:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=124892&postcount=46

I just thought that if we did some of these "organised" rides then we might have a group that would get better and would feel safer... it's useful.


Dude, I do agree with the first part of your post about the people who you would ride with. I'd bet that those riders show courtesy towards you, even though they're most likley a lot faster than you?


Yeah - that's part of it - I'm just a weekend warrior and I don't feel like I have to show off my chicken strips. I love my bike. I think it's great and I love riding it. I know that's the same for those here that have bikes or have had bikes, and will be the same for those who are trying to get bikes...

Oh sod it.. Just RIDE RIDE RIDE :hug:

[magnum]

too many fullas on here think they have something to prove.if you dont grow up fast you will end up in a ditch or worse,nuf said.

[Kornholio]

til a yellow bumble bee or two fly past........

Lol hows that new tyre going??

[marty]

still parked up - haven't had time to take the bike in to boyds for fitting - it needs trailering! i've been sneaking out on the TL instead (if it's possible to sneak on the TL.....)