Guns and Shooting.

[Sparky Mark]

Happy New Year to you All!!

I'm just about to invest in a new rifle - belated Christmas Pressie. :2thumbsup

I was wondering if any of you in the Wellington region are members of gun clubs or ranges that may be able to take me out for shoot or two before I join a club of myself. I'm looking into Deerstalkers etc but It would also be useful to meet someone with a bit more knowledge than me who can help me with stripping down, cleaning etc.

Please PM me if this applies. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Wolf]

It would also be useful to meet someone with a bit more knowledge than me who can help me with stripping down, cleaning etc.
Well, take your shirt and trousers off, likewise any underwear, turn the tap thingy on the shower and step in, soap is optional and...

Couldn't resist. Nope, not strictly true, could resist, decided not to.

Anyroad, congrats on the weapon. What'd you get yourself?

[scumdog]

So c'mon already, what is the new musket?? Give us some detail, calibre, make, action etc.:2guns:

[Colapop]

Wanna loan it and shoot at yourself? :dodge: :whistle: :Police:

[Sniper]

Oooo Oooo, what did ya get?

[Sparky Mark]

Thanks for your comments guys - Wolf, whats that 'shower' thing you mentioned?? :bleh:

Anyway, I've not ordered yet but will do this week. I'm currently trying to decide between two:

308 Saiga Carbine. Based on the ak47 action.

7.62x39 Norinco SKS. I think also based on the ak47.

Both semi auto's, good reliable all rounders apparently, and great as bush guns. I'm leaning toward the 308 at the moment but it doesn't come with a scope which is another $299.

:scratch: Any advice?

[geoffm]

Thanks for your comments guys - Wolf, whats that 'shower' thing you mentioned?? :bleh:

Anyway, I've not ordered yet but will do this week. I'm currently trying to decide between two:

308 Saiga Carbine. Based on the ak47 action.

7.62x39 Norinco SKS. I think also based on the ak47.

Both semi auto's, good reliable all rounders apparently, and great as bush guns. I'm leaning toward the 308 at the moment but it doesn't come with a scope which is another $299.

:scratch: Any advice?

/anorak mode on/
The SKS is similar to the AK action, but is a forerunner. Mr Siminov invented it towards the end of WW2. Mr K didn't come along until a few years later. Both solid if not particualry accurate rifles - around 4" at 100m.
/anorak mode off
I prefer bolt action gusn for hunting, but that is me.
I find the SKS stocks to be way short and uncomfortable - i got a Fibreforce stock for mine which was a big improvement. I would go for the Saiga.
Are you sure it is .308 - I thought they were 7.62x39.
The 7.62 round is good to 100m and a bit, but not a great one for much further. The Chinese ammo is cheap. Handloads or quality ammo will tighten the groups a bit
As far as scopes go, the SKS isn't easy to mount a scope on properly. The mounts that replace the dust cover aren't that strong, and the empty cases hammer the hell out of the scope, unless you get a real short one. A good bolt action is more accurate and easier to mount a scope on. Don't cheap out buying a scope - the no-name Chinese ones are rubbish. Some of the Tascos are ok - it is luck of the draw. The Leupold on my.223 is nice - and cost more than the gun.
Geoff

[Hitcher]

If you want to kill something, don't use a 308, particularly anything modelled on an AK47. My preference is bolt-action. My grandad had a wonderful Winchester Model 70 30-06. An absolute dream hunting rifle. I'm also a fan of the Ruger M77, in its .204 form.

[scumdog]

Yeah, don't wish to knock the wind out of your Christmas present sails but I'd go for a reasonable quality bolt-action 308 with a top-notch 4 X 40 scope (or if you're really rich, a 3 to 9 power variable, also of top-notch quality)

I use a Sako 308 lever-action, had it since new and wouldn't part with it ever, faster than a bolt-action, just as accurate and suits my left-handedness
Can't get 'em new anymore which is a shame.:(

[Velox]

Evidently the Ohariu deerstalkers range is free for visitors on Sundays. I didn't even know there was one out there but that's what the guy up at Collings and Bradey told me.

If you ever want to ping a few goats, me, VaselineWarrior, transformerboy and assorted Wgtnonians head up the back of my place/neighbours places occassionaly. Got six just behind the house yesterday!

[Fatjim]

Shit I'm in, sick of getting rabbits with the bike. I might need that 200 round mag that fits on my ruger. Might miss with the first 199.

[Sniper]

Shit I'm in, sick of getting rabbits with the bike. I might need that 200 round mag that fits on my ruger. Might miss with the first 199.

How the hell do you miss anything with a ruger????:beer:

[Beemer]

There is a place called Deadeye Dick's Shooting Supplies in Levin - they could be worth contacting, the number is 06-367-8052 or 025 SKIN IT (754-648).

[Uncle B]

308 as a bush gun!!!!!
Best for the bush I ever used was a 30-30 lever action.

I did shoot a Punga Bear with a 303.....it went SPLAT.

[VasalineWarrior]

Yep heard a lot of good things about that deadeye dicks. Sposed to be a bit of a mission to find the place though.
Nothing strictly wrong with anything based on an ak47 mate, as military rifles tend to have a lot of good characteristics (reliabilty, toughness yadayada) that carry through for hunting. I found with semi autos though that I tend to let my shot placement get sloppy, and end up using more rounds than I have to a lot of the time, but thats more a problem with me than the guns themselves. Shit, if you you can get a good deal on it with a scope id say buy it. And if you miss at least ammo is cheap!

[FlangMasterJ]

If you're looking for advice on hunting and firearms pop into Mainly Hunting (Pickering St, kaiwharawhara). These guys know what they're talking about.

[What?]

308 Saiga Carbine. Based on the ak47 action.

7.62x39 Norinco SKS. I think also based on the ak47.

Both semi auto's, good reliable all rounders apparently, and great as bush guns.... Any advice?
Both good for fuck-all.
Spend your loot on a decent bolt action if it's deer you are chasing. If you can stretch to a Sako, you won't go wrong.
If pigs are your bent, a 30.30 lever isn't a bad way to go, being short and light, although not too flash in the accuracy stakes.
I don't want to offend you here, but semi-auto is an unnecessary wank. If you miss with the first shot, the animal will be running, and all you are likely to do is blaze away merrily trying to hit an impossible target whilst forgetting the fact that your projectiles may still be lethal 3 Km away. Then there's all the arguments about safety...

[Dafe]

I fired off 250-300 rounds straight through a C9 and bent the barrel from the heat.
Can I have a go on your rifle???

[Fatjim]

Did you actually hit anything?

[Sniper]

Did you actually hit anything?

Yes, up to 200m quite happily. Not with a ruger .22, I can only manage 125yards accurately.:apumpin:

[Sniper]

I fired off 250-300 rounds straight through a C9 and bent the barrel from the heat.
Can I have a go on your rifle???

Haha, well done. Now were you brave enough to change the barrel strait afterwards?

[ManDownUnder]

How the hell do you miss anything with a ruger????:beer:

easy - you know the ol' "one shot one kill rule"... pretend you don't know it.

[emaN]

guess it depends what you're gonna be 'terminating'...

i got a 6.5x55 mauser last year - she's mint! matching numbers an' all.
popped off 120 goats (with 3 others) down King Country way in 25hrs and loved it.

what will you be using it for?

[Sparky Mark]

Well, thanks a lot for all of your comments\advice. Now I'm bloody confused... haha...

No seriously its really helpful. Well I'll continue looking about. Trouble is my budget isn't that great and I wanted to get something new rather than second hand as I'm not an expert and can't really tell if something's in good nick or not. Shotguns were my thing years ago as I grew up on a farm. I've not had much experience with anything else.

With regards to what I want to use it for... Well I'd like to have something that'll be good for goats, pigs, deer etc. but also something I can have a bit of fun with at the ranges or out in the bush.
I thought the two rifles I was looking at would be suitable but was leaning toward the Siaga. A military rifle I know but also I thought it might be a bit of a challenge with regard to the accuracy.

Anyway, I'll have a look at the places mentioned and get a better feel for it.

Velox, thanks for your offer, I'll definitley take you up on it when I get myself sorted!!

Thanks a lot to all of you!!

[Lias]

I want one of these puppies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_XM109
However I'd settle for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82A1 (or any of their .50 BMG weapons really)

Who's seen the video clip of the mercenary in Iraq slaughtering militants with a barret 50? Its great.

[MSTRS]

If you are a fan of .308, yet want a short bush gun, then you can't beat a Miruku lever action. They are tough, light, very accurate (watched a mate pop a deer at about 200m across a valley) and can take a scope well.

[Sparky Mark]

If you are a fan of .308, yet want a short bush gun, then you can't beat a Miruku lever action. They are tough, light, very accurate (watched a mate pop a deer at about 200m across a valley) and can take a scope well.

Thanks, I'll have a look and see what sort of prices they're going for...

[Indiana_Jones]

I want my gun licence, but I an't got the money for a gun, so there's no point lol. One day :)

nice .303 Enfield (bolt action of course) might do me :)

-Indy

[Sniper]

I
Who's seen the video clip of the mercenary in Iraq slaughtering militants with a barret 50? Its great.

Nice weapons used one and I have nothing bad to say about it, but the guy who used it in Iraq wasn't a merc. :blip:

[MSTRS]

nice .303 Enfield (bolt action of course) might do me :)

-Indy
Contradiction in terms there young Indy. Nice and LeeEnfield do not belong together in the same statement. Not known as the SMelLiE for nothing. In saying that, the Mk.V carbine wasn't toooo bad. However, 4" grouping at 100m is not really the shizz.

[Swoop]

308 Saiga Carbine. Based on the ak47 action.

7.62x39 Norinco SKS. I think also based on the ak47.

Both semi auto's, good reliable all rounders apparently, and great as bush guns. I'm leaning toward the 308 at the moment but it doesn't come with a scope which is another $299. Any advice?
What will be your area of shooting? Open flat land or in the bush?
Decide these first.
Other comments are very relevant. A good bolt action is a great move. Don't eliminate a lever action 30.30 if in the scrub to quickly either...

Your AK actioned choices are both .308 but the SKS is the shorter version in 7.62x39mm.
Saiga = average...
SKS (if you are in the bush) is ample up to 150yds max.
Scopes. If you want a scope on your SKS look at FULLAUTOMAN's listings on trademe. He has a nice compact scope on mounts for bugger all $$$!
Have just put one on my goat rifle & it's shit hot!!! Ejected rounds go up in front of the scope - so no worries there.
Best of luck with your search!

[scumdog]

If you are a fan of .308, yet want a short bush gun, then you can't beat a Miruku lever action. They are tough, light, very accurate (watched a mate pop a deer at about 200m across a valley) and can take a scope well.

Not a bad choice, remember, a removable magazine is a good safety aspect!! (and it makes loading a shit-load faster when you see that unexpected deer on the road home!)
Stick with the 308 calibre, it's a great 'all round' calibre - bush and open country and can be got in bullet weights from 110grn (not recommended) to 220grn (overkill). 175grn is a good weight for most shooting.

A 303 with a GOOD barrel and scope with a proper sporting stock is a good 'starters' rifle - but cheap ammo for it ain't as available any more.

[Grahameeboy]

Don't like guns....shoot the lot of you!!!!

[scumdog]

Don't like guns....shoot the lot of you!!!!

Each to their own - safer than motorbikes though!!

Just another 'fun' thing eh!

[Beemer]

Yep heard a lot of good things about that deadeye dicks. Sposed to be a bit of a mission to find the place though.

Nope - really easy to find! It's in Heatherlea East Road - head north out of Levin and about 2-3kms past the 100km zone there is a sweeping left-hand corner with two roads leading off to the right - Heatherlea East is the first of the two. They don't have the house number listed in the phone book but there is a sign out the front.

[sels1]

And to balance up this redneck thread...


Each to their own - safer than motorbikes though!!

Just another 'fun' thing eh!

Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"



BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????


(Scottish thread coming......):corn:

[scumdog]

And to balance up this redneck thread...



Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"



BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????


(Scottish thread coming......):corn:

So I take it you don't eat meat, wear leather or mind pest animals being poisoned instead of shot?? or have bugs splat on your visor either???

The things I shoot I eat - except for the street signs, electric insulators etc!!

[Drunken Monkey]

R. Carson is obviously a biologist who slept during his "101" lectures on adrenaline and endorphins.

[TraD_MaN]

:banana: my LeeEnfield is in mint condition, the only thing that has been done to it is the wooden stock has been cut down the barrel a bit, the barrel has had 15 shots thru it so the bore is mint :yes:

[Wolf]

Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"

BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????
Carson is obviously some species of vegan or a hypocrite. Either he uses no animal products at all (ignoring the fact that even a bread-and-water diet involves the deaths of millions of micro-organisms) or he is full of shit and prefers to pretend that steak he is eating was not once a living animal - it's easy to sit on moral high ground when it was someone else who actually did the killing, skinning and cleaning and all you have to do is stick it on the grill and tuck into a bit of prime beef.

As to cruelty: I have hunted for food, I have hunted pests and I have euthanased ailing animals. My compassion and humanity manifests itself in the mercy of a quick, clean kill.

Few people delight in causing suffering to living things, those of us who hunt tend to try to be as humane as possible and do not delight in an animal's anguish should the first shot not dispatch the animal swiftly.

Carson is a wanker talking out of a hole in his arse if he thinks hunting is based around cruelty. I sincerely hope that one day he is alone somewhere in tiger country and finds himself stalked by a maneater - for he is nothing more than a food-animal and would best serve this planet by providing sustenance for a member of an endangered species. And I doubt the tiger would care much if Carson suffered as it rips his throat out or disembowels him.

But of course, you could be right, it probably would be much better if we lived on tofu and mung beans and it's best if New Zealand's forests and bird life are obliterated by possums, stoats, feral cats, pigs, goats and deer and the bloody South Islanders are just a pack of moaners whinging on about the rabbits destroying their livelihood and it's best if we just let nature take its course and let the dog or cat die slowly and in pain from cancer or terrible injuries because, damnit, guns are just so cruel.

[Velox]

And to balance up this redneck thread...

Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"

BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????

(Scottish thread coming......):corn:

God told people to eat animals so by that commandment you mentioned he obviously wasn't meaning don't kill animals. I think we live in a 'fallen world' and have to make the best of it - and so pest control and hunting for sport isn't cruel. But I agree with you - I hate animals suffering, and so I try to finish them off as quickly as pos. In saying that I don't think we were 'originally' meant to kill animals and there's something 'wrong' about it but I def think that it's necessary and morally fine now (argh - save that for the Scottish thread). I reckon it's more in the attitude than the act.

[N4CR]

Myself and a freind are thinking of getting our gun liscences and starting hunting as a hobby. I have had a bit of time on .22s shooting rabbits and not a whole lot else.

From what I can see a .308 seems to be a decent gun for most things, or is it just too big for a newb? I don't want to spend too much, mabey $500 or so for a first gun.

Anyone care to give me a brief rundown on the whole hunting rules and ways to go around it (where and when what how etc). I'm just investigating more before I decide to take the jump.

Cheers.

P.s. Keep it on topic please.

[Grahameeboy]

Each to their own - safer than motorbikes though!!

Just another 'fun' thing eh!

It was really a tougue in cheek comment but the follow ups....geeze what did I start.......

[Lou Girardin]

The anti's don't really want animals not to be killed. They just don't want anyone to enjoy doing it.

[TraD_MaN]

Myself and a freind are thinking of getting our gun liscences and starting hunting as a hobby. I have had a bit of time on .22s shooting rabbits and not a whole lot else.

From what I can see a .308 seems to be a decent gun for most things, or is it just too big for a newb? I don't want to spend too much, mabey $500 or so for a first gun.

Anyone care to give me a brief rundown on the whole hunting rules and ways to go around it (where and when what how etc). I'm just investigating more before I decide to take the jump.

Cheers.

P.s. Keep it on topic please.


.308 is a good choice, huge range of bullet grain options aswell , have a look on the bullet charts if you can at a local gun store or where ever...
just like shooting 3inch mags out of the shotty im only lil and i have no problam so its fine for a newbi. also .243 are very nice aswell. as far as hunting goes just use some common scence thats all it is realy, eg dont shoot at shapes or objects or even sounds... go to DOC and the give you all the hunting access points to go hunting, unless you can get on to some farm land you'll be sweet...

ps, if you want some real fun get a bow, you can shoot any thing from rats to big wapit down south with the same setup, awesome fun up there with bikes :wari:

[ManDownUnder]

BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????

LOL - it is actually "thou shalt not commit murder" but hey - and lets leave the interpretation of that statement to those most able to put it in context?

... off to get MY popcorn now...

[sels1]

LOL - it is actually "thou shalt not commit murder" but hey - and lets leave the interpretation of that statement to those most able to put it in context?

... off to get MY popcorn now...

I think the original hebrew to greek translation was "not kill" and the same sentiment is expressed in other early scriptures such as the Bagavad Gita.
Later translations tended to suit the atitudes and culture of the translators
Anyway, no need to start another scottish tread - got enough bites with that troll....:corn: :corn:

[Swoop]

Myself and a freind are thinking of getting our gun liscences and starting hunting as a hobby. I have had a bit of time on .22s shooting rabbits and not a whole lot else.

From what I can see a .308 seems to be a decent gun for most things, or is it just too big for a newb? I don't want to spend too much, mabey $500 or so for a first gun.

Anyone care to give me a brief rundown on the whole hunting rules and ways to go around it (where and when what how etc). I'm just investigating more before I decide to take the jump.

Cheers.

P.s. Keep it on topic please.

Go for it! Get your licence!!! You will enjoy the endless hours comparing calibres and rifles, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.......................

[Wolf]

Thanks for your comments guys - Wolf, whats that 'shower' thing you mentioned?? :bleh:

308 Saiga Carbine. Based on the ak47 action.

7.62x39 Norinco SKS. I think also based on the ak47.

Both semi auto's, good reliable all rounders apparently, and great as bush guns. I'm leaning toward the 308 at the moment but it doesn't come with a scope which is another $299.

:scratch: Any advice?
Showers are what you make do with if you haven't got a bath. Recently shifted house and the new place has a nice deep old fashioned bath so showers are a thing of the past.

But back on topic after joking around and feeding the trolls:

I have a genuine Russian "Simonov" albeit rather modified - no bayonet lug and I replaced the old wooden stock with a synthetic Hole-through "Target" stock and cut down the magazine to five shots so I don't need the MSSA endorsement. I can hear the Military Enthusiasts groaning from here - "You did what to a genuine Russian SKS?!?!?!?" I still have the original wooden stock in storage.

I haven't had a chance to fire it yet.

A Miroku lever action is indeed a good hunting weapon - I had one in .243, detachable box mag was handy. I prefer a bolt action or a military semi-auto as the removal of the bolt is a trivial task and I was brought up with the "enter the house with the bolt in one hand and the rifle in the other or leave the house horizontal, at speed" regime - and mum wasn't joking about punching me back out the door, either. Lever actions and many "sporting semis" are difficult to strip.

I like .243 as it is a good flat trajectory and is quieter and more manageable than a .308 (7.62x51). The Miroku was a great weapon to shoot and nicely accurate. The action was like oiled glass - after the initial resistance as the bolt unlocked the lever took no effort to move. I sold it because I needed the cash - gut-wrenching that was.

AFAIK Miroku = Browning - it was a Browning Lever Action made under licence by Miroku.

I had an old Russian Mosin-Nagant rifle - NOT the carbine - in 7.62x54R and would not recommend it (especially not firing in "prone" position - better to stand or kneel and let it knock you on your arse than lie down and try to absorb all the recoil on your shoulder...) Made a noise like a Howitzer and in any standard DOC shooting block you'd better pray your first shot is a kill - if you miss then you might as well pack up and go home because there's not going to be any game in your block by the time the echoes die away...

I don't know what .308 sport rifles sound like but I fired an L1A1 (semi-auto version of the FAL) and I would've sworn it was audible all the way to town, I'd hate to hear a FAL on "Rock 'n' Roll".

I want to buy another hunting rifle, most likely a bolt action .243 of some flavour.

My .22 is a Brno - damned fine weapon. My original Brno got stolen and never recovered but it was such a wonderful weapon I bought the same model again (almost - the new one is the "Luxus" model while the original was the "Standard" - better quality stock on the new one.)

I need to get a decent scope for the new Brno - the old one had a second hand but still reasonably good scope on it.

Edit: The attached pic is the same model as my Brno

[SpankMe]

hmmm, sounds like NZ needs a firearms/hunting forum. If I had any spare time (which I don't) I'd start one. I haven't been out shooting in a donkeys age. The rifle collection has just been gathering dust (and some rust).

[Drunken Monkey]

Maybe we need to arrange the KB stalker's club shoot...

Good hunting places are few and far between these days, people like to keep them secret, especially around Aucks. I know I did when I had one. Alas it is being used for grazing now...

[SpankMe]

The place I used to go hunting has now become too built up to hunt there anymore. I even had the Police helicopter called out on me once while I was target shooting to zero in some new high velocity ammo on my .22 magnum bolt-action. Too many townies moving to the country and not used to the sound of gunfire. The Police Helicopter circled and came down real low then over its loud speaker I heard "drop your weapon and walk to wards the road". There were two plain clothes officers waiting there for me and they had pulled the plugs from my GB (the first one I owned). Apparently they had been after me for months but I was always gone before they got there. I usually just hunt at my friends place, but there is some large council property next to it which is always good for bunnys and target practise. They said it wasn't a problem, just that I needed council approval to shoot there. They put back my spark plugs in the GB and that was it. So from then on I only used a .22 with silencer when I went on that bit of land.

About a week later the Police helicopter fell out of the sky and crashed on the Auckland central motorway.

[ManDownUnder]

About a week later the Police helicopter fell out of the sky and crashed on the Auckland central motorway.

a .22" hole in the tail rotor was it? Seriously though - I know what you mean.

I'm on the lookout for some bunny or possum hunting grounds, so if anyone knows any out west and or wants to come out for a walk one night. I have all the gears, the licence and the spotlight (none of this "bright torch" shit... I'm talking 100W Halogen bunny blinder)

MDU

[ManDownUnder]

Maybe we need to arrange the KB stalker's club shoot...

Good hunting places are few and far between these days, people like to keep them secret, especially around Aucks. I know I did when I had one. Alas it is being used for grazing now...

Count/consider me for that.

MDU

[Wolf]

About a week later the Police helicopter fell out of the sky and crashed on the Auckland central motorway.
Hmm, and they thought you were a danger to the public...

[Swoop]

hmmm, sounds like NZ needs a firearms/hunting forum. If I had any spare time (which I don't) I'd start one. I haven't been out shooting in a donkeys age. The rifle collection has just been gathering dust (and some rust).
There is already one on the IMAS site. Dunno how much use it gets though...

[scumdog]

Maybe we need to arrange the KB stalker's club shoot......

Hell no! The way these pricks operate they would be shooting themselves in the arse every 40 metres or so - going by their riding/binning ratio!!:yes:

[scumdog]

I don't know what .308 sport rifles sound like but I fired an L1A1 (semi-auto version of the FAL) and I would've sworn it was audible all the way to town, I'd hate to hear a FAL on "Rock 'n' Roll".

I want to buy another hunting rifle, most likely a bolt action .243 of some flavour.

My .22 is a Brno - damned fine weapon.

Hmm, 308 is o.k., only rattles your fillings when you get to the 220grn mark!!

I hand-load and my shots are LOUD! but deadly, best part is that a bit of scrub has no effect on the accuracy/power!!.

My .22 is 1950's Sako - 10mm groups at 50 yards with Winchester Power-Point bullets, got a 4X40 Gold Crown on it, THE best .22 rifle scope combo I've had.

[Wolf]

I hand-load and my shots are LOUD! but deadly, best part is that a bit of scrub has no effect on the accuracy/power!!.

My .22 is 1950's Sako - 10mm groups at 50 yards with Winchester Power-Point bullets, got a 4X40 Gold Crown on it, THE best .22 rifle scope combo I've had.
Yeah, .243 can be a bit light in scrub. Your Sako sounds like a wet dream.

Never did a proper bench test on the "old" Brno when I had the scope on it (can't even remember what make scope I had, was around the same specs as yours - 4x40 (chose the 40 for light catching ability at dusk/night)) but it was certainly accurate enough to drop possums cleanly over various distances. The factory test on the new Brno looks fair but they weren't exactly trying to shoot a UIT match with it so it's not that tight. Will have to get a good scope and take it out and give it a proper bench test.

[MSTRS]

My .22 is 1950's Sako - 10mm groups at 50 yards with Winchester Power-Point bullets, got a 4X40 Gold Crown on it, THE best .22 rifle scope combo I've had.
Sounds like a veeery nice combo. Got a Voere myself. Puts 5 shots in an under 1cent coin-sized group at 25m including 1 'flier'.
Wolf, I am bleeding for you (having to sell the Miroku). You are right - they are a Japanese Browning. Best thing as far as lever actions are concerned, these rifles side-eject, so no scope issues.

[Sniper]

What sucks is, I know a fair bit about targets, range work, ballistics. I have only ever shot rabits and never been hunting. I suppose there are too many variables to condsider than just lying down and pitting the ace at 700 yards?

[Swoop]

What sucks is, I know a fair bit about targets, range work, ballistics. I have only ever shot rabits and never been hunting. I suppose there are too many variables to condsider than just lying down and pitting the ace at 700 yards?
Sniper. What was your "tool of trade" or preferred option? Cal, etc...

[Wolf]

Wolf, I am bleeding for you (having to sell the Miroku).
The only plus was: I sold it for more than I paid for it.

When I got it the stock looked like it had been used as a hockey stick and the blue was patchy.

I stripped it down, taking care to note how it came apart, bought a tube of bluing gunk - can't remember the brandname - and reblued the barrel, receiver and a few smaller bits - doused it in boiling water to set it and rinse off the excess compound. A rub with gun oil and it looked factory.

I stripped the varnish off the stock, held it over the boiling jug until the dings came out. There was only one gouge but that was small and close to the trigger guard, hardly noticeable. Sanded the stock to smooth the soft wood that had risen, liberally oiled it with linseed then sanded it again while still wet with linseed and the stock came up like glass.

Reassembled, the rifle looked like a million bucks.

Yep, I was gutted having to sell it. The big laugh: the gunshop I sold it to, for more than I paid for it, was the shop who sold it to me originally - so I figure I improved its value enough that they could make a profit above what they paid me.

[MSTRS]

Wolf - you are nothing if not a class act. Still a shame to part with a loved possession.

[Wolf]

Wolf - you are nothing if not a class act. Still a shame to part with a loved possession.
Would have another any day if I could afford it. If someone said "Oh, I picked up a Miroku lever action in good condition", I'd be confident they have a bloody great weapon.

[Sparky Mark]

Well, I went up to Dead Eye Dicks on Saturday - thanks for the phone numbers and directions!

I had a really good chat with the guy up there. He was very good and gave me some great advice on what I would need based on my circumstances. I didn't feel like he was trying to push anything on me which was good, and also he didn't try to sell me anything too expensive unlike some of the other places I've been looking at.

So, basically out of the guns he showed me, a new Remington bolt action looks like it could be the one. Stainless barrell - not the smooth type but the pitted kind. Synthetic stock very lightweight. Comes with an average scope, I can upgrade when the time comes.

He suggested a .308 or .270 for the kind of stuff I'm likely to be doing. The .308 ammo I know I can get pretty cheap which is also a consideration. But the .270 can be pretty expensive if your'e just plinking.

decisions decisions....

[scumdog]

Stainless barrell - not the smooth type but the pitted kind. Synthetic stock very lightweight. Comes with an average scope, I can upgrade when the time comes.

He suggested a .308 or .270 for the kind of stuff I'm likely to be doing. The .308 ammo I know I can get pretty cheap which is also a consideration. But the .270 can be pretty expensive if your'e just plinking.

decisions decisions....

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)

308 plusses: Shorter action (though watch it, some outfits use a long action for everything) which is lighter/faster. Bigger range of bullet weights and ammo CAN be cheaper.
270 plusses: higher velocity, 'flatter' shooting (not as much drop for a given range)

Recoil for both is equal for same bullet weight but as most 308s are around 175grn and most 270s around 130grn you may 'feel' more kick from 308.

[Sparky Mark]

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)

308 plusses: Shorter action (though watch it, some outfits use a long action for everything) which is lighter/faster. Bigger range of bullet weights and ammo CAN be cheaper.
270 plusses: higher velocity, 'flatter' shooting (not as much drop for a given range)

Recoil for both is equal for same bullet weight but as most 308s are around 175grn and most 270s around 130grn you may 'feel' more kick from 308.


Thanks Scumdog. He did say the same at DED's. Although the remington has a good recoil buffer which he said would help in that department. I'm also used to shotguns which is what we grew up with on the farm in the UK. The recoil is apparently similar.
The downside to the .270 he said may be that for deer etc you may have to hit it in the right place to ensure a kill depending on distance. The owner of the shop apparently still 'loses' a few with his. So maybe as a first gun the .308 may be cheaper and more 'forgiving' until I get a little more experience in?

[scumdog]

The downside to the .270 he said may be that for deer etc you may have to hit it in the right place to ensure a kill depending on distance. The owner of the shop apparently still 'loses' a few with his. So maybe as a first gun the .308 may be cheaper and more 'forgiving' until I get a little more experience in?

Yep, I find the recoil to be that of a light 12 guage shotgun.

If the dude is losing deer with a 270 he's not shooting them in the right places OR he's not using the correct type of bullet (projectile), should be knocking them over no-sweat.

Nothing wrong with 270 but from experience and personal favouritism I would go the 308 way. Shoot a deer with a 308 and you'll have a LITTLE more leeway for bullet placement BUT if you only wound a deer it will still go probably as far as it would with a 270 (Yet to not drop one with my 308 so only going by anecdotal evidence here!)

[Sparky Mark]

Yep, I find the recoil to be that of a light 12 guage shotgun.

If the dude is losing deer with a 270 he's not shooting them in the right places OR he's not using the correct type of bullet (projectile), should be knocking them over no-sweat.

Nothing wrong with 270 but from experience and personal favouritism I would go the 308 way. Shoot a deer with a 308 and you'll have a LITTLE more leeway for bullet placement BUT if you only wound a deer it will still go probably as far as it would with a 270 (Yet to not drop one with my 308 so only going by anecdotal evidence here!)

Thanks for that.
I think the .308 will be the one. As a matter of interest do you know anything about these Remingtons?
Price wise it seems like a good package as it comes fully scoped and ready roll for $1100. From what I've seen it doesn't look bad. I've seen the rifles advertised at Gun City without the scope for $999. I know the scope is average - he told me that.

[Wolf]

Remember: all things being equal the lighter the rifle the harder the 'kick' (recoil)
You need to work out a trade-off between "heavy enough that the kick is not excessive" and "too heavy to lug around the bush for protracted periods". Calibre and projectile weight factor in - as SD said, the "standard" loads for .308 and .270 are such that .308 may appear to kick more but lighter projectiles are more easily deflected than heavy ones.

[crash harry]

<gun nerd mode = UNLEASHED>

If you want to shoot goats, there's no better rifle than the SKS. Or if you've got your E cat, an AK with a full 30rd mag. If you come accross a mob of 20 or so it's nice to know you've got the firepower to drop the lot (whether or not they stick around long enough is another matter...) 7.62x39 is great for goats, adequate for pigs, and OK on smaller deer out to about 100m or so.

I'd stay away from the Saiga - it's a nice gun for the money, and I was this close (picture me holding my fingers not very far apart..) to buying one - but they weigh a friggin ton! And the barrel is pretty long. Not much of a bush gun really, they'd be perfect for culling from a chopper though (so I'm told). 308W is a bloody good cartridge though for all the reasons that SD stated and more. Just watch that .308W and 7.62x51 NATO are not exactly the same - the military brass sometimes has headspacing problems in sporting rifles which can be dangerous, but just usually causes the cases to stick in the action. Resist the cheap ex-mil plinking ammo!

I reckon the perfect goat/pig/deer bush gun is a winchester 30-30 with open sights. Light, small, reasonably punchy over modest distances. Optics don't really help my accuracy much I find unless I've got somewhere to sit down and prepare the shot nicely. Open sights are light and small and they don't get knocked off target.

I have to agree on the Miroku 308 lever actions as well - there was one on Tardme (I think it's still there?) with about $400 on it the other night.

BTW. if anyone HAS such a 30-30 and wants to trade/part trade for a mint Zastava .223 bolt action... PM away...

<gun nerd mode = SUPRESSED FOR NOW>

[crash harry]

<---deleted content of double post --->
oops sorry about that

[Pixie]

And to balance up this redneck thread...



Guns could be a fun thing at a riflerange shooting at targets - But if think it is "fun" to kill things then you would be....well...let me say it with a quote from renown biologist R. Carson:

"Until we havethe courage to recognise cruelty for what it is - whether its victim is human or animal - we cannot expect things to be much better in this world...we cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolorates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity"



BTW, you Christian(s) who posted in this thread....what happened to the 6th Commandment - "Thou shall not kill"????


(Scottish thread coming......):corn:
Mmmmm cuddle the fluffy bunnies

[Pixie]

But of course, you could be right, it probably would be much better if we lived on tofu and mung beans
Noooo! That would mean we would be hippies and would have to commit suicide

[Wolf]

Noooo! That would mean we would be hippies and would have to commit suicide
But then you'd want a gun because the other methods of suicide are so unreliable...

[Pixie]

But then you'd want a gun because the other methods of suicide are so unreliable...
True,but when hippies get guns they go charlie manson.

Whatever Rod Donald used was pretty efficient.

[sAsLEX]

I have only ever shot rabits and never been hunting.

Never seen the pink mist then?

[MSTRS]

Never seen the pink mist then?
BUCK FEVER !!!!!
.....or when passed by young fellas on smaller bikes at the track.....

[scumdog]

Never seen the pink mist then?

Yeah but then the black didn't miss!!:dodge: :laugh:

[Wolf]

Never seen the pink mist then?
Sure one of my mates did - over a possum! He fired and missed. It ran along the branch so he tracked it and emptied the clip of the semi-auto as fast as he could - possum last seen sailing off the end of the branch into a thick bush about the same time as he ran out of ammo, totally unharmed so far as I could tell.

Worst was: I was at the back of the group, he was in front of me and there were two other hunters in front of him and he tracked the possum, firing wildly, right across where they were standing.

Fortunately both hit the deck the moment he started letting rip so neither was harmed. When they got up, tho', I thought I was going to actually see a bloke get a rifle shoved up his arse.

[scumdog]

Worst was: I was at the back of the group, he was in front of me and there were two other hunters in front of him and he tracked the possum, firing wildly, right across where they were standing.

Fortunately both hit the deck the moment he started letting rip so neither was harmed. When they got up, tho', I thought I was going to actually see a bloke get a rifle shoved up his arse.

Rather have a big wart on me knob than a 'mate' like that!!

[Wolf]

Rather have a big wart on me knob than a 'mate' like that!!
Oh he got a pretty firm lesson in firearms and safety and was careful after that - I guess being scant seconds from a steel-and-wood enema focussed his mind somewhat. The others never hunted with him again but I went out with him and watched him carefully and he seemed to have learned his lesson.

[Fatjim]

God told people to eat animals so by that commandment you mentioned he obviously wasn't meaning don't kill animals. I think we live in a 'fallen world' and have to make the best of it - and so pest control and hunting for sport isn't cruel. But I agree with you - I hate animals suffering, and so I try to finish them off as quickly as pos. In saying that I don't think we were 'originally' meant to kill animals and there's something 'wrong' about it but I def think that it's necessary and morally fine now (argh - save that for the Scottish thread). I reckon it's more in the attitude than the act.

Hey Velox, when someone misquotes the bible, especialy as badly as this, just ignore them. He's probably sitting there thinking, doh, I really screwed my argument up there.


I'd like to say something to all non christians out there. Turn off now if you want to. The bible speaks to both believers and non believers, but untill you believe all it teaches you is the gospel. Untill you believe, don't quote the bible cause you know jack, and if you are a Christian save it for another forum cause it just pisseth people off.

Brother Jim

[Fatjim]

well thats pretty much killed this thread off then :)

[Velox]

Hey Velox, when someone misquotes the bible, especialy as badly as this, just ignore them. He's probably sitting there thinking, doh, I really screwed my argument up there.


I'd like to say something to all non christians out there. Turn off now if you want to. The bible speaks to both believers and non believers, but untill you believe all it teaches you is the gospel. Untill you believe, don't quote the bible cause you know jack, and if you are a Christian save it for another forum cause it just pisseth people off.

Brother Jim
Cheers Jim, but I know Sels1 and he's a good fellas. He's not just trying to rark people up (even if he did make a "troll" comment) and is actually being reasonably genuine about his argument so that's all good. It's hard to tell though online cause there's so much other rubbish that goes on.