Yama got the specs wrong?

[bugjuice]

Kinda looks like yamaha is backpeddling on the 17,500 rpm redline on the 06 r6... Its been dyno tested a few times now and has been redlining around 15,800 rpms which has been causing a quite the stir. Well i just came across this thread on the r-6 board (keeping my enemies close... ;)) and thought it was interesting. Seems yama has yanked their claim of 17,500 RPM's which used to be on their website. Its been removed from the u.s. and european site, but still listed on canada. The r-6 guys are pissed...LOL Im anxious to see what happens with this...

link to the thread
http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21468

yamaha US
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelfeatures/8/0/features.aspx

yamah Canada
http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/products.php?model=1791&section=ft&group=M

yamaha Europe
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/products/motorcycles/supersport/yzfr6.jsp?view=overview

[Firefight]

[QUOTE=bugjuice] Im anxious to see what happens with this...



why in God's name (sorry Matt) would you be anxious about this Kit ?

were you think of up grading to an R6 ?


F/F

[bugjuice]

well, yes and no..
it's one of the highest revving engines around at the mo (and an indication of things to come?), so to see Yama get it so wrong, there's got to be more to it than meets the eye. It's an awesome bike on paper, but are they going to deliver? Just thought it's quite a big booboo
may be that's a little ott then.. but I've just had a strong coffee

[cowpoos]

that redline was never where the peak power was....it gave a really good overrun in the revs to make riding the bike at a track easyer....it also gave the engine the potential to be highly tunable...like the R1

[bugjuice]

just found a dyno chart too :bleh:
R6 vs GSXR600
You can see where it drops off. Dyno runs always go close or to the redline, which is that claimed 17,500, but the chart shows no where near 17.

Still a fast bike (see the bhp in the bottom corner), but all the same..

[skelstar]

Question: why is an over run in the revs make riding a bike easier at a trackday?...it is so you can hold the throttle in a corner for longer?
Ta.

[cowpoos]

can use a lower gear...so in stead of droping below the power during the corner as the rev's drop....you can use the over run to drop the rev's into the power to give more drive at the exit...so it is a clever way of countering the low amounts of midrange power the 600 class develops...its how a number of GP twostrokers were tuned to great results...

[nudemetalz]

What about that short video which showed the rev-counter revving thru to 17.5K and down again. Was that an inaccurate or false reading?

[bugjuice]

yup, seems like it

[Lou Girardin]

Are you saying that peak power is at 15,800 or that the limiter comes in at 15,800?
Because Yamaha merely claim a 17,500 red line not that power peaks at that.

[TonyB]

To my laymans way of thinking it looks like the R6 would be harder to ride than the GSXR- you'd always having it spinning harder and probably changing gears more often too. I can't help thinking Yamaha are going in the wrong direction- it's the same with the 1000's, all of the competition have a better torque spread and are making more power at lower revs. The peak power is similar, but the Yammies have to rev harder to achieve it.

[bugjuice]

peak power was claimed at 14,800
Don't know where the limiter sits

[Sniper]

Maybe thats it, maybe the limiter keeps the revs down? Im just thinking outside the square.

[bugjuice]

well, the big topic is that what shows on the rev counter is far from what's actually going on

[SixPackBack]

To my laymans way of thinking it looks like the R6 would be harder to ride than the GSXR- you'd always having it spinning harder and probably changing gears more often too. I can't help thinking Yamaha are going in the wrong direction- it's the same with the 1000's, all of the competition have a better torque spread and are making more power at lower revs. The peak power is similar, but the Yammies have to rev harder to achieve it.

True that......the only true salvation is via the Gixxer:scooter:

[Biff]

Read an interesting report in a bike mag last year about manufacturers claims (BHP, dry weight etc). Basically it said that all manufacturers figures are pretty much BS.

During the bike mag’s own tests they could get nowhere near the claimed BHP or dry weights claimed by the manufacturers, with Yamaha being the worst. An alleged Yamaha insider actually stating that when it got to publishing the BHP figures for the '05 R1 they looked at the competition’s figures and then made up a figure that made the R1 look competitive.

We all know that the R1 is more than competitive - so the conclusion I draw is that every fker lies/exaggerates.

[Bartman10]

Looking at those dyno runs, I'd have the gixxer any day. It makes more power for most of the curve (at same RPM) and more torque everywhere. Power curve is far smoother too.


Bring on the gixxer! :Punk:

[FlyingDutchMan]

Saying the redline is higher than it is is nothing new. Honda claimed the CBR250 had a redline at 18,500, but when I measused it, it was 17,232.

[Coyote]

Saying the redline is higher than it is is nothing new. Honda claimed the CBR250 had a redline at 18,500, but when I measused it, it was 17,232.
I revved the ol' CBR further than that when I found false neutral

[riffer]

Am I missing something here? :crazy:

Who cares what the redline is?

Its where you get peak torque and power, and for how much of the rev range its in the top 25% of the available power and torque.

Then you just gear the bike accordingly...

[bugjuice]

it's more the point that Yama are claiming BS
plus, the technology that goes into such a high revving engine is kinda breakin old rules, it could be a new era of higher output engines for smaller cc's. If it isn't so, then why cry wolf?

[White trash]

just found a dyno chart too :bleh:
R6 vs GSXR600
You can see where it drops off. Dyno runs always go close or to the redline, which is that claimed 17,500, but the chart shows no where near 17.

Still a fast bike (see the bhp in the bottom corner), but all the same..

Can I just say that I'm loving the fact that the new model R6 makes 3 more horse power and a SHITLOAD less torque than the OLD model Gixxy Six?

Thought I could.

Thanks for listening.

[Sniper]

We always listen to you WT, sometimes it just refuses to sink in. :laugh:

[Lou Girardin]

You can raise the rev limit (and power) till the cows come home and all you'll have is a fast track bike and a gutless POS for normal road use.
One of the Pommie bike mags detuned an R6 with various Thundercat bits, they ended up with 3 hp less than standard, but much more low and mid-range torque. Everyone who rode it preferred it to the standard bike.

[Sniper]

Is a r6 an upgrade compared to the 636...im not that clued up on bikes...arent they both about the same?

Roughly, but too many Poms ride 636's so they aren't too popular.:lol:

[SixPackBack]

Is a r6 an upgrade compared to the 636...im not that clued up on bikes...arent they both about the same?

Yes thats correct Dynamytus50 the R6 is clearly better than 636 [and CBR600]..........all clearly inferior to the GSXR600 which is the best of all [eh buggy hehe]

[bugjuice]

Is a r6 an upgrade compared to the 636...im not that clued up on bikes...arent they both about the same?
on paper, the 04 R6 and 636 are equal. You could call the 636 a cheat, cos it's 636cc's where as the R6 is 598cc and develops the same power etc. The 05 636 up'd itself a bit, and Suzuki tweaked the K5 600 (I think), but Yama and Honda didn't really do anything for 05. So now Yama have released their 600 eater, so at the moment, it's the best - on paper. But the cracks are already showing, which isn't great for them. Honda really need to crack the whip and get a new 600 out.

Sniper and SPB are gonna get a kickin tho :kick:

[WRT]

Well, if you werent happy with "just" a 600, then why only jump up by 36cc's to 636cc's? Why not go up by a more worthwhile amount and get say a 750?

Oh wait, thats right, they dont make em any more. You'd need a gixxer for that, too . . .

[bugjuice]

there's 650s and now a 675.. what's yer point..
they didn't come in orange anyway

[SixPackBack]

there's 650s and now a 675.. what's yer point..
they didn't come in orange anyway

Thats how people end up with kumansukmes.....they do orange!

[Sniper]

Sniper and SPB are gonna get a kickin tho :kick:

OK, I admit it, the orange is kinda gay :chase:

[Firefight]

on paper, the 04 R6 and 636 are equal:


never mind the bloody paper put the fuckin things on the road and see.

F/F:wacko:

[Gremlin]

Thats how people end up with kumansukmes.....they do orange!
wrong, weird opinions like that make you end up with a gixxer. You can't figure out what you want, so you go and buy a gixxer hoping it will save your bacon. :motu:

No orange on my kwaka thats coming... ewwww. Its got purple instead :puke:

[bugjuice]

never mind the bloody paper put the fuckin things on the road and see.

F/F:wacko:
but then that's down to the rider, isn't it *insert sarcasm here*

and there's nothing wrong with orange people. love it, don't hate it :Punk:

[2much]

there's 650s and now a 675.. what's yer point..
they didn't come in orange anyway

There was only one 650 four cylinder (that I can think of) and that was just a temporary fix for a year, the rest are twins so are in a totally different class and don't count. And the 675 is a triple so is eligible for the supersport class.

I agree, why didn't they make the 636 a 750 to compete directly with the Gixxer??? That's what they should do.

[FlyingDutchMan]

I revved the ol' CBR further than that when I found false neutral

Don't believe that tacho... it lies and the needle has momentum. It is impossible to make it go higher than the rev limiter unless you drop a gear while it is already red-lining :eek:

[cowpoos]

To my laymans way of thinking it looks like the R6 would be harder to ride than the GSXR- you'd always having it spinning harder and probably changing gears more often too. I can't help thinking Yamaha are going in the wrong direction- it's the same with the 1000's, all of the competition have a better torque spread and are making more power at lower revs. The peak power is similar, but the Yammies have to rev harder to achieve it.



my bet is that this bike will be by far superiour to even a average rider than all the other bikes in the class.....that hugew over rev function is a massive advantage to have even if it has less HP [which I doubt]

right...when coming up to a corner you can stay in a lower gear at high rev's well beyond the peck HP...and as you slow through the bend the rev's will drop to or near or not far below peak HP...and having peak HP there for a exit will make this bike blinding fast out of corners....another example will be if ytour on a really fast sweeper gaining speed as you go your not gunna need to change gear while leaned over...my bet is this engine will revelotionise this class...and I hate yamaha's.....so it takes alot for me to praise this bike...but I respect the engineering point of veiw...

[cowpoos]

yup, seems like it

no it is not inacurate...its designed that way for a porpose... one day some magazine with half a brain will work out why the engine was designed that way and give everyone a reason for "dummies" :blip:

[bugjuice]

for what it's worth, a mate in the US just sent me this...
<blockquote>"I just got off the phone with yamaha corporate and here is what i found: the guy i spoke with took my question to technical and marketing, he also made them aware of yamaha canada's site still having the 17,500 posted when yamaha-us had changed theirs changed. the 17,500 according to factory is a mechanical redline, meaning the bike is capable of 17,500 but has a limit set in the ecu for 16,000 or so. Marketing said that was the number they wanted to push and so they did. He also told me that if graves has it at 16,000 that is NOT A FLUKE AND THAT IS THE NUMBER WE SHOULD EXPECT WITHOUT CHANGING THE ECU. He also went on to tell me that internally GRAVES MOTORSPORTS HAD ALREADY APROACHED THE FACTORY WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT THE BIKE NOT HITTING 17,500 BUT IN FACT HITTING 16,000. He also told me that marketing is now looking into changing the web site to reflect where the real rev-limit kicks in. He said that change could take place in a day or so,and they are in contact with yamaha canada about updating there web-site, but he explained yamaha canada is a separate company so wether they will or not remains to be seen. He did however guaranty me that no there 600 will touch this bike on the track for fact and in his voice he was as sure of that as he was sure about breathing. This guy never once tried to bullshit me and was very helpful. On a side note he said all the wharehouses will be releasing all the bikes over the next 2 weeks"</blockquote>

[nudemetalz]

Very interesting, Bugjuice. Thanks for taking the time to inform us :)