Harley Davidson

[James Deuce]

The HP sauce discussion has prompted me to ask what you folks think of HD.

After growing up watching my Dad struggle to keep an "old tech" car on the road for family transport, it amazes me to see how much an air cooled, pushrod V-Twin can command as a new purchase price. I've tried a Fat-Boy, and an 883 sportster, and both of them left me feeling more than a little disappointed.

The Sportster owner had a list of niggles that kept him going back and forth to Wellington M/Cs, and the Fat Boy owner (old school friend of mine in Auckland) eventually sold it and bought a 2nd hand GSXR750 and a HOUSE!

I've never understood why anyone would want to ride a bike with such low handling limits on a road that is filled with hazards. I had the Fatboy's boards down at what felt like 15 degrees of lean, and the sportster just felt like a very underpowered tractor, that blurred your vision at 100km/h and had a tank range of about 160kms. Neither of them had what I would call brakes, and the riding position had my lower back screaming in agony after about 30 mins. OK, OK! I hear what you say; why bitch about something that obviously isn't your style of 'bike??

The VROD looks fantastic and has an engine that at least matches what we expect from the current crop of Japanese and European V-Twins. It also appears to have brakes and reasonable suspension.

My point is that I just don't see $20-$30k of bike when I look at a Sportster, $30-$60k when I look at an FLSWHATTHEF__K (thanks Matthew :)), and $40-$50k for the V-ROD. For the various sums I could buy 2-5 bikes that would all out perform any HD. IS the brand name and image REALLY worth that much???? Do the people that buy them try anything else before they buy an HD? Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????

This isn't a troll or an anti-HD post, just my opinion, and I am genuinely mystified as to what makes a person buy an ill-handling, under suspended, under braked, under powered, heavy bike in preference to the vast range of competent quality items out there. Surely it can't just be, "If I buy an HD chicks/guys will dig it"????????

Looking forward to some healthy debate and, no doubt, creative insults :)

Jim2

[Lou Girardin]

I think it's a combination of image and nostalgia. Most Harleys are non-threatening too, low seats and soft power output.
Lou

[White trash]

All good ponits.

But, its $15-$20K for the new Sporty. (Triumph Bonnevilole America $17k, Speedmaster $18) $27-$40 for the "Big blocks". An "Electraglide Ultra Classic" is $41. Stereo, CB radio, luggage for Affrica, lights fucken every where. Priced a "Leadwing" lately? Suggest you do. V-Rod is $36-38 depending on the model.

People buy HD's for the image, the nostalgia, the social scene and the pride of ownership. On the HOG poker run on Sunady there were almost 300 bikes. After 300kms of touring there was only one disagreement over riding styles (directed at me funnily enough)

Prices are dictated by supply and demand. HD have a policy which has stood since they re-took ownership from AMF in the early eighties. 70% of bikes built are for the domestic (USA) market. The remaining 30% are for international market. There is a TWO YEAR waiting list in the States for a touring model and this is the most expensive place on earth to buy one. NZ, comparitively is the cheapest. We also have one of the highest HD ownership per capita ratios in the world. (Second only to the Chattam Islands!)

People dog HD for their prices but do you honestly think it costs $7K more to build a 999 than a GSX-R thou?

As for the old tech build of a Harley, why change it if it aint broke? They sell as many as they can make and part of the attraction is the low tech style.

Let me assure you, I am the last person to try and convert people to HD's just for what they are, but I for one really enjoy the different style of riding they offer. I will always own a sports machine, because that is my prefrence of riding but it's pretty cool to be able to go for a ride with the wife or the girlfriend and just cruise and enjoy the scenery.

Jim2, I appreciate your comments because you've obviously ridden a couple but wouldn't you say you enjoyed the Fatboy just a little because of what it was? Maybe not, I don't know but I used to be the biggest HD knocker you ever met. Untill I rode one.

Nuff said ;)

[White trash]

P.S. Shit you get up early!

[merv]

On the HOG poker run on Sunady there were almost 300 bikes. After 300kms of touring there was only one disagreement over riding styles (directed at me funnily enough)

So WT have you got a HOG that you were riding Sunday? The riding style thing were you trying to hunch over the HOG like you were still on the GSXR?

You would have spotted us Ulysses dudes on the hill and down into Featherston as we were all getting mixed up with each other on Sunday. I was a bit slow standing there as we were talking as the HOG's went by but I should have pulled my camera out earlier at Featherston and snapped you dudes cruising by, but in the end I just snapped the Ulysses line up as we regrouped.

[6Chris6]

Quote "Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????"
Since i got my bike a mate of mine has decided he wants a Hardly Driveable and no amount of logical debate will change his mind :brick: "But it's overpriced and handles like a pig on stilts bro" It's just the name lets face it 9 out of 10 people don't know what a gixxer, R1, Busa is but who doesn't know what a Harley is?

[White trash]

So WT have you got a HOG that you were riding Sunday? The riding style thing were you trying to hunch over the HOG like you were still on the GSXR?

You would have spotted us Ulysses dudes on the hill and down into Featherston as we were all getting mixed up with each other on Sunday. I was a bit slow standing there as we were talking as the HOG's went by but I should have pulled my camera out earlier at Featherston and snapped you dudes cruising by, but in the end I just snapped the Ulysses line up as we regrouped.

It seems one of the fuddy duddys I over took between Feathers and Martinborough thought I was a bit close. This is from an experianced road racer too. He is actually full of it because I was purposfully VERY considerate as I know what a moaning bunch of arseholes they can be. I may have caught your group just after the T intersection heading down towards Martinborough? My riding buddies were riding a red XB12 Buell (2 up) and a red FXD (solo). They were being a bit silly with the Ulysies guys where as I hung back and slowly moved through the pack. I was on a Silver/Black V-Rod.

I waved to everyone in case I knew someone.

[Grumpy]

Interesting about the 2 year waiting list for a touring HD in the states.
I was talking to a yank who was installing a machine for us a while ago. He was like a walking HD billboard with the t shirt, belt buckle, hat and all the shit.
I says to him "love ya Harleys' eh?"
He replied "buckets of shit, but they're American. Wouldn't ride anything else."

I think that's an example of what the Japs are up against in the American market.

There'll always be someone for just about any bike on the market. We all ride a particular bike for different reasons, be it pose value, riding style etc... or as in my wife's case, colour :doh: Thats what makes the biking fraternity such an interesting bunch.

[James Deuce]

P.S. Shit you get up early!

Small kids and on-call combined to give me about 4 hours broken sleep last night <sigh>

Those prices you quote don't match anything like the prices I've been seeing in the trade rags. The latest Wellington Motorcycles ad, had the VROD listed at $45k. And the list price for the new Sportsters has the range starting at $20k

And yes I do think the 999 costs more to build than a GSXR. The business is smaller than Suzuki, the overheads are bigger, and the componentry and labour is more expensive.

The Fat Boy scared the crap out of me. No handling, no brakes, and no engine. A new Goldwing on the other had is a delight in comparison. The 1800 might be $60k, but I can see why. I've ridden an Aspencade and it actually stopped, went, and handled (to a point) predictably.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

[White trash]

In fact, here's a pic of him bleating about it to my boss!

If you're reading this J B, no offence :Playnice:

[MikeL]

Image is everything. A motorcycle or a car is not just an assembly of metal, glass and plastic with a set of performance statistics (speed, acceleration, braking etc.). If that were the case, our purchases would be based on logic and rational thinking. In fact a car or bike is a very potent symbol that represents or reflects something intimately connected with our sense of self-identity (which explains why it is often impossible to articulate our choices and we fall back on lame phrases like "It's just me"). Exactly how, where and when a particular type of bike picked up the rich symbolic meanings it has for any given individual is often impossible to determine. Obviously for those of us in the more mature age group, what we saw, rode or longed for when we were younger plays an important role. Advertising and the deliberate creation of an image targetted at a particular group would be an important factor as well, particularly nowadays.
For me HD doesn't make my heart beat faster, but I can understand the attraction. Now if we were talking Triumph, Norton or Vincent...

[White trash]

Small kids and on-call combined to give me about 4 hours broken sleep last night <sigh>

Those prices you quote don't match anything like the prices I've been seeing in the trade rags. The latest Wellington Motorcycles ad, had the VROD listed at $45k. And the list price for the new Sportsters has the range starting at $20k

And yes I do think the 999 costs more to build than a GSXR. The business is smaller than Suzuki, the overheads are bigger, and the componentry and labour is more expensive.

The Fat Boy scared the crap out of me. No handling, no brakes, and no engine. A new Goldwing on the other had is a delight in comparison. The 1800 might be $60k, but I can see why. I've ridden an Aspencade and it actually stopped, went, and handled (to a point) predictably.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.


The V-rod you are thinking of is a 100th anniversary edition. Price is $41950. I know. The 2004 VRSCB list is $36300 and VRSCA $38000.

Do not follow list prices as advertised in the Motorcycle trader, they have not updated prices since the beginning of 2003.

I attach a retail price list (if I can get it to work!)

[James Deuce]

The V-rod you are thinking of is a 100th anniversary edition. Price is $41950. I know. The 2004 VRSCB list is $36300 and VRSCA $38000.

Do not follow list prices as advertised in the Motorcycle trader, they have not updated prices since the beginning of 2003.

I attach a retail price list (if I can get it to work!)

Cheers mate (good job on getting it to work!!) - I should read the ads better! The Sportster prices were obviously for the 1200 series. And yes the VROD price was for the anniversary.

[White trash]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.

PM me your details, I'll call you to organise a ride and you'll go in the draw to win a new Buell at the end of the year once all the Australasian demo day are complete. Jimbo750 has ridden one and quite enjoyed it. This guy is the biggest Gixxer diehard I know.

Any takers?

[James Deuce]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.

PM me your details, I'll call you to organise a ride and you'll go in the draw to win a new Buell at the end of the year once all the Australasian demo day are complete. Jimbo750 has ridden one and quite enjoyed it. This guy is the biggest Gixxer diehard I know.

Any takers?

Yup - XB9?? I'm a twin/handling freak (TRX 850 rocks!!). Sounds like my sort of thing!

Every time I see a post from you Steriogram songs just start bouncing around inside my head. The new one is driving my nuts RIGHT now!!

[White trash]

Yup - XB9?? I'm a twin/handling freak (TRX 850 rocks!!). Sounds like my sort of thing!

Every time I see a post from you Steriogram songs just start bouncing around inside my head. The new one is driving my nuts RIGHT now!!

Please, tell me it's driving YOU nuts. Not YOUR nuts! :confused2

[matthewt]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.


I must admit to quite liking the Firebolt (not sure about the exhaust though). To be honest I've never ridden a HD so I think riding a few would probably be a good excercise for me.

[matthewt]

I attach a retail price list (if I can get it to work!)

Holy cow !!

Is there actually a method to the letters or do the first couple make sense and the rest are drawn out of a hat each year ??

[FzerozeroT]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.

Must be a national thing cause Road and Sport in Hamilton have one soon, I had a putt around the yard on a XB9S :D a bit different to a 150 2Stroke! Don't rev for take off, just let out the clutch and bunny hop away :o

[White trash]

Holy cow !!

Is there actually a method to the letters or do the first couple make sense and the rest are drawn out of a hat each year ??

The only really reliable letters now are at the beginning of the model:
X=Sportster,
F=Big Twin,
FL=Big Twin with big forks,
FX=Big Twin with Sportster-style (smaller) forks,
FXST=Softtail,
FXD=Dyna Glide.

So FLSTF tells you FL, big twin (1450) with big forks, small fr wheel 16in.
ST Softail chasis (hidden rear suspension)
F should go without saying "Fatboy"

FXDWG FX Big twin with 21in front wheel.
D, Dyna (rubber mount) chasis
WG, Wideglide.

Takes a bit of getting your head around, I know! :yes:

[james]

hey jim as you no i dont no much about bikes,im learning slowly,but when i look at a harley you dream of the open road,or ive watched to many yank films,thats american films bye the way Lol,but most of all its the chrome man
you gotta have chrome,i might buy one tomorrow LOL :2thumbsup :rockon:

[James Deuce]

Very good replies folks. I'll try to be a little less judgemental even though its not my thing!

Now if we can just get the buggers to wave back :)

[White trash]

Very good replies folks. I'll try to be a little less judgemental even though its not my thing!

Now if we can just get the buggers to wave back :)

Good luck! Stuck up pricks, the majority of them.

Except me of course :msn-wink: If I waved any harder I'd fall off!

[James Deuce]

Please, tell me it's driving YOU nuts. Not YOUR nuts! :confused2

DOH!!

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

I meant ME!

Sorry

[White trash]

Image is everything. A motorcycle or a car is not just an assembly of metal, glass and plastic with a set of performance statistics (speed, acceleration, braking etc.). If that were the case, our purchases would be based on logic and rational thinking. In fact a car or bike is a very potent symbol that represents or reflects something intimately connected with our sense of self-identity (which explains why it is often impossible to articulate our choices and we fall back on lame phrases like "It's just me"). Exactly how, where and when a particular type of bike picked up the rich symbolic meanings it has for any given individual is often impossible to determine. Obviously for those of us in the more mature age group, what we saw, rode or longed for when we were younger plays an important role. Advertising and the deliberate creation of an image targetted at a particular group would be an important factor as well, particularly nowadays.
For me HD doesn't make my heart beat faster, but I can understand the attraction. Now if we were talking Triumph, Norton or Vincent...

Very well said, Mike. :niceone:

[White trash]

Here's a couple of shots of the HOG run for thos who may be interested.

1st pic is from early Sunday morn at the shop. Impossible to get all the bikes in one shot.

Second is one group outside the Gladstone pub. Terrific day for it too!

[Coldkiwi]

can't say I'm a real fan of harleys but they don't outright offend me.
Buells on the other hand I can appreciate. Very unique design and they've really tried to be smart with the engineering - combining function and fashion is a MAJOR draw card to me. Sure, they're only in their little 'twisty roads' niche but thats fine because they seem to do it well. Perhaps the perfect machine for fanging up mountain roads ona day trip between your favourite cafes where you can gaze at it?

haven't ridden one but reckon I could buy one when I get a little more disinterested with chasing 250kmhr at pukekohe!

[White trash]

can't say I'm a real fan of harleys but they don't outright offend me.
Buells on the other hand I can appreciate. Very unique design and they've really tried to be smart with the engineering - combining function and fashion is a MAJOR draw card to me. Sure, they're only in their little 'twisty roads' niche but thats fine because they seem to do it well. Perhaps the perfect machine for fanging up mountain roads ona day trip between your favourite cafes where you can gaze at it?

haven't ridden one but reckon I could buy one when I get a little more disinterested with chasing 250kmhr at pukekohe!

Interestingly, CK.

I used an XB12S (naked) to ride up to a funday at Manfeild one weekend. My work mate on his 99 GSXR750 couldn't gain much space till above 200kph on the straights.

They're not as slow as people believe and they get out of turn's quicker than anything I've ever ridden. The 1200 is a bloody horible lurchey thing around town though
:argh:

[pete376403]

Wouldn't the V-Rod motor be a natural for the Buell? Has it been done?

[White trash]

Wouldn't the V-Rod motor be a natural for the Buell? Has it been done?

Too big and heavy. If you ever have a decent look at a V-rod you'll notice that the motor is huge! Massively over engineered.

The XB Buells have the shortest wheelbase of any production sports motorcycle. Shorter even than an Aprillia RS125! Makes 'em turn real good!

[georgedubyabush]

An example of HD image:

I was in Vanuatu a while back and most of the little markets had bootleg HD vests, jackets etc. There's probably not one HD on Vanuatu. Only saw one ratty ct200, and a few hire scooters.

[Holy Roller]

An example of HD image:

I was in Vanuatu a while back and most of the little markets had bootleg HD vests, jackets etc. There's probably not one HD on Vanuatu. Only saw one ratty ct200, and a few hire scooters.
The same in the markets of Hong Kong I got my belt buckle there HD of course.
One had to carefully check the wording as they were also pushing cheap copies with Barley Davidson inscripted on the gear.

[wkid_one]

Too big and heavy. If you ever have a decent look at a V-rod you'll notice that the motor is huge! Massively over engineered.

The XB Buells have the shortest wheelbase of any production sports motorcycle. Shorter even than an Aprillia RS125! Makes 'em turn real good!
Yeah and fuel in the frame and oil in the swing arm

[SPman]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?
Took an XB9R for a run when they were first released. After getting used to revs that were all over by 6k and ignoring the clunky gearbox by leaving it in top and riding on the torque, it was fun. Didnt want to take it back....wanted to head of to the Coromandel for a few hours fun! The 1200 should be quicker though - the 9 was a bit sluggish. Good handling, ground clearance and rode well over corrugated surfaces - the set up must have suited me.

[scumdog]

A quick comment about Jim2's opening to the thread, - you could put his argument to almost anything but it's all up to taste and budget, after all, I couldn't see why anyone would want to pay $2,000,000 for a stainless steel and glass mansion, after all it can't be any more comfortable than my $75,000 rough-cast and besides costs more for rates and is harder to heat, and getting to my place in the rush hour means waiting at least 30 seconds before you can pull out of the side road into the traffic why for that price you could have my house, a large boat, a bevvy of H-D's and STILL have money in the bank!! ;)

[merv]

Yep its all about you blow your money on what you want and stuff what anyone else thinks as long as you are having fun. If you have the money, spend it, no use leaving it all to the kids.

[merv]

... and the guy who spend 2 mil on a house probably has a few more mil to buy Harleys and other stuff with anyway. No use just leaving the money in the bank.

[DeanOh]

Took an XB9R for a run when they were first released. After getting used to revs that were all over by 6k and ignoring the clunky gearbox by leaving it in top and riding on the torque, it was fun. Didnt want to take it back....wanted to head of to the Coromandel for a few hours fun! The 1200 should be quicker though - the 9 was a bit sluggish. Good handling, ground clearance and rode well over corrugated surfaces - the set up must have suited me.


I took the XB12S for a spin. Heaps of torgue. I didnt like the riding style. felt like I was sitting on the front bars, very upright. It felt like a MX bike. But the power, the fun factor, won me over. If her indoors could be persuaded I would buy the XB12R. The riding position is alot more comfortable on the 12R, alot more like a sports bike, leaning forward etc. The clunky 5 speed gearbox took some getting used to. The XB12S that I rode had the factory exhaust. It kinda sounded like a VW, an after market exhaust would be the first change if I got one.

About the Harley thing.
When I was a young man, all I wanted was a Harley, the cost was always inhibitive then, but for me it was about the look, tattoos, long hair, Harley!!!
If I didnt live in such a dodgy neighbourhood now I would give thought to buying one. But Im sure the natives would end up riding off with it. :bye:

[DEATH_INC.]

I've only ridden 1 hog and it put me off ever riding another......though I'd love to try a buell,they look like heaps of fun....
A better example is my boss(rich, 40 something),owned heaps of hardleys,Till he rode a vulcan,reckons he'll never own another hog.Why because of excatly what Jim's saying......
FLHS=fat,long heavy and slow...... :laugh:

[James Deuce]

Thanks again for the replies folks. Good point Scumdog - it was a bit of a "generic" argument. That's the problem when discussing substance vs style I guess.

[Timber020]

Like the fashion industry the Harley industry bothers me. As far as a products go they are not very good but as for a brand they are incredibly successful. There production is held back to create artificial demand and therefore value, They rely on outside sources for all of the more complex parts of there bikes and they are very careful about what they do with there brand.
Harley had some serious objections to Eric Buell using there engines to make sports bikes as they recognised it could man embarrasment to them as they were not up to competing with the japanese, Something harley long ago gave up trying to do by trying to compete outside of what the japanese were making. At the time the 1340cc harley motor was putting out 65hp, only 10hp more than alot of the japanese 250's at the time.
Buells started to sell and Harley took notice, harley took a 49% stake in the company in exchange for selling motors to the former ama racer. (up until then eric had to source second hand motors mostly) Then harley got an additional 49% bringing it to 98%.
Harley have been able to rely on there name and the midlife crisis to keep alive and thrive in the last 20 years. If it wasnt for the over 40's market Harley would have sunk long ago.
If you started a company tomorrow that made bikes that performed and were priced like harleys with 50% asian components do you think it would sell?

[scumdog]

Timber020, you say "as far as products go they are not very good", in what way are noy very good?
Sure if it's H.P. they are well down to what they could be but then if it's H.P. you want it would be a Hyabusa you would aim for.
As far as bikes go it's "horses for courses" and I am quite happy with my slow 1200-S Sporty, I suppose it's like having an Anglia instead of a Ferrari, the extra performance would be wasted on you if you didn't want it/use it.
In some ways the Jap copies of Harleys are pathetic - like they are water-cooled but have bolt on fins to make themLOOK air-cooled and like a Harley but if that's what you want/can afford good on you.
As a foot note, when I was in Las Vegas two years ago I was talking to a cop on a H-D and asked him why they had gone back from Kawasakis to H-D's and he said that what the department lost in the initial purchase price they more than made up for in the higher trade-in value and there was no difference in reliability and the maintenance was easier. :2thumbsup

[White trash]

Exactly. H-D's are cool! Full stop and one day I'll own one.

[geneandjane]

I think that you, Jim2, should maybe " close mouth " before your other foot finds it's way there. Your comment on HD prices is way out for a start - show me someone who has paid $30,000 for a Sporty. I have ridden evrything from a nifty fifty, dirtbikes, HD'S, and the new V-Rod, and enjoy the thrill of the ride and each bikes individual handling etc. I have settled on a HD which have ridden all over the South Island and in Oz down the East coast to Sydney - never fallen off and always found the brakes ( that you say the HD's don't seem to have ). You sound extemely ill-educated on bikes and need to study on each subject carefully before going public ! Oh , by the way - you have'nt heard me run the Jap bikes into the ground in this Forum have you - tact goes a long way !
Jane ( not too scared to use my own name !)


The HP sauce discussion has prompted me to ask what you folks think of HD.

After growing up watching my Dad struggle to keep an "old tech" car on the road for family transport, it amazes me to see how much an air cooled, pushrod V-Twin can command as a new purchase price. I've tried a Fat-Boy, and an 883 sportster, and both of them left me feeling more than a little disappointed.

The Sportster owner had a list of niggles that kept him going back and forth to Wellington M/Cs, and the Fat Boy owner (old school friend of mine in Auckland) eventually sold it and bought a 2nd hand GSXR750 and a HOUSE!

I've never understood why anyone would want to ride a bike with such low handling limits on a road that is filled with hazards. I had the Fatboy's boards down at what felt like 15 degrees of lean, and the sportster just felt like a very underpowered tractor, that blurred your vision at 100km/h and had a tank range of about 160kms. Neither of them had what I would call brakes, and the riding position had my lower back screaming in agony after about 30 mins. OK, OK! I hear what you say; why bitch about something that obviously isn't your style of 'bike??

The VROD looks fantastic and has an engine that at least matches what we expect from the current crop of Japanese and European V-Twins. It also appears to have brakes and reasonable suspension.

My point is that I just don't see $20-$30k of bike when I look at a Sportster, $30-$60k when I look at an FLSWHATTHEF__K (thanks Matthew :)), and $40-$50k for the V-ROD. For the various sums I could buy 2-5 bikes that would all out perform any HD. IS the brand name and image REALLY worth that much???? Do the people that buy them try anything else before they buy an HD? Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????

This isn't a troll or an anti-HD post, just my opinion, and I am genuinely mystified as to what makes a person buy an ill-handling, under suspended, under braked, under powered, heavy bike in preference to the vast range of competent quality items out there. Surely it can't just be, "If I buy an HD chicks/guys will dig it"????????

Looking forward to some healthy debate and, no doubt, creative insults :)

Jim2

[White trash]

Jane, Jane, Jane. Welcome to KB!

Jim2 and I have discussed this issue at great lengths and I believe him to be one of the most open minded bikers on this site.

What I think he wanted was some explanation as to why people such as yourself, Scumdog and me are drawn to HDs.He just didn't get it and that's cool. I have the same oppinion on Ducatis. I just don't see the attraction.

Jims original post was quite tounge in cheek and he had been misled on the price issue. He even had the decency to take me up on an offer to ride one of my Buells. Quite enjoyed it too.

Anyway, let's let sleeping dogs lie shall we?

[James Deuce]

I think that you, Jim2, should maybe " close mouth " before your other foot finds it's way there. Your comment on HD prices is way out for a start - show me someone who has paid $30,000 for a Sporty. I have ridden evrything from a nifty fifty, dirtbikes, HD'S, and the new V-Rod, and enjoy the thrill of the ride and each bikes individual handling etc. I have settled on a HD which have ridden all over the South Island and in Oz down the East coast to Sydney - never fallen off and always found the brakes ( that you say the HD's don't seem to have ). You sound extemely ill-educated on bikes and need to study on each subject carefully before going public ! Oh , by the way - you have'nt heard me run the Jap bikes into the ground in this Forum have you - tact goes a long way !
Jane ( not too scared to use my own name !)

Already got put straight on prices by White Trash thanks.

The prices I was quoting were for Anniversary specials.

The new Sporties are listed that dear in trade adverts. Apprently you can get them cheaper.

I've ridden 3 Harleys and a Buell now (Thanks White Trash) and I don't understand what the fuss is about Harleys. The Buell was fantastic. You may want to read the thread and remove your feet from your oral orifice before sounding off. I was asking for creative discussion (and insults) not a personal attack.

I don't like Harleys and I was asking what other people think, and what I was missing. If you read the thread you will see that I have responded to people's comments and have decided that I may need to re-evaluate my ideas. NOw go back and read and excercise some of that tact you mention.

[duckman]

Crickey, now this IS getting exciting ... :doobey:

I've always been a fan of twin cylinder bikes, I enjoy the torque and the sound of a twin.
Now I've never ridden a harley (never had the chance), but I would certainly consider owning one. I've been riding long enough to be over the top speed, crazy cornering thing, and would not expect the best performnce from such a machine. (who would)?
I think the VROD looks cool and I've read that it performs quite well. Anyone want to offer a test ride ?? :yes:

[James Deuce]

You may note that I own a twin with less HP than yours. I'm a twin fan too. I prefer handling to horsepower though.

[duckman]

You may note that I own a twin with less HP than yours. I'm a twin fan too. I prefer handling to horsepower though.
Yea - I quite like those TRX's - They sound brilliant!!!

How long have you had yours ??

I'm still getting used to the TL, it's abit heavier than the 750 SS :Offtopic:

[James Deuce]

Yea - I quite like those TRX's - They sound brilliant!!!

How long have you had yours ??

I'm still getting used to the TL, it's abit heavier than the 750 SS :Offtopic:

I got mine for Christmas from the wife last year :) It's bloody fantastic! It has the standard mufflers, but with some strategic baffles removed so it is quite "fruity".

Love the TLs too, but quite happy with the TRX.

[White trash]

Already got put straight on prices by White Trash thanks.

The prices I was quoting were for Anniversary specials.

The new Sporties are listed that dear in trade adverts. Apprently you can get them cheaper.

I've ridden 3 Harleys and a Buell now (Thanks White Trash) and I don't understand what the fuss is about Harleys. The Buell was fantastic. You may want to read the thread and remove your feet from your oral orifice before sounding off. I was asking for creative discussion (and insults) not a personal attack.

I don't like Harleys and I was asking what other people think, and what I was missing. If you read the thread you will see that I have responded to people's comments and have decided that I may need to re-evaluate my ideas. NOw go back and read and excercise some of that tact you mention.
:niceone: Well responded!

Hey, we should have a Harley riders v's Jap riders fight club!

"1st rule of fight club......"

[jrandom]

"1st rule of fight club......"

"Don't steal the Harley riders' walking frames"?

:lol:

[Oscar]

Timber020, you say "as far as products go they are not very good", in what way are noy very good?
Sure if it's H.P. they are well down to what they could be but then if it's H.P. you want it would be a Hyabusa you would aim for.
As far as bikes go it's "horses for courses" and I am quite happy with my slow 1200-S Sporty, I suppose it's like having an Anglia instead of a Ferrari, the extra performance would be wasted on you if you didn't want it/use it.
In some ways the Jap copies of Harleys are pathetic - like they are water-cooled but have bolt on fins to make themLOOK air-cooled and like a Harley but if that's what you want/can afford good on you.
As a foot note, when I was in Las Vegas two years ago I was talking to a cop on a H-D and asked him why they had gone back from Kawasakis to H-D's and he said that what the department lost in the initial purchase price they more than made up for in the higher trade-in value and there was no difference in reliability and the maintenance was easier. :2thumbsup


This is quite the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
What are you saying?
You compared your HD to an Anglia? That analogy would only work if the Anglbox cost more than the Ferrari...So are you saying you paid double the odds because you LIKE inferior performance?

As for your Jap Cruiser remark - I'm no cruiser fan, but I have ridden a coupla Kawasaki Vulcans - these things are half the price of the equivalent HD, faster, handle better and actually have brakes that work...apart from that they're "pathetic".

BTW - WHat's the point in worrying about resale if yer Cop can get 3 Kawasaki's for the price of two HD's? Duh...

[Oscar]

I think that you, Jim2, should maybe " close mouth " before your other foot finds it's way there. Your comment on HD prices is way out for a start - show me someone who has paid $30,000 for a Sporty. I have ridden evrything from a nifty fifty, dirtbikes, HD'S, and the new V-Rod, and enjoy the thrill of the ride and each bikes individual handling etc. I have settled on a HD which have ridden all over the South Island and in Oz down the East coast to Sydney - never fallen off and always found the brakes ( that you say the HD's don't seem to have ). You sound extemely ill-educated on bikes and need to study on each subject carefully before going public ! Oh , by the way - you have'nt heard me run the Jap bikes into the ground in this Forum have you - tact goes a long way !
Jane ( not too scared to use my own name !)

Obviously your idea of "tact" includes telling people to take their feet out of their mouths and calling them extremely ill-educated.
Strange (must be an Aussie thing).

If you wanna slag off Jap bikes, go right ahead. Lets start by comparing them to your beloved HD, shall we? Now, lesse - in what area is an HD superior to the equivilant Japper?

Um...power?
Nope.

Handling...?
Nope.

Comfort..(who would know, most of you cruiser types only ride from esspresso machine to esspresso machine)?
Nope.

Reliability? Hahhahahahahahahahahah...splork, *cough* sorry, Nope.

Price? Ah, now we're getting somewheres. You like riding a bike that is not only instantly recognisable, but is also known to be expensive.

Conclusion - if you HD dorks could actually ride, you'd be on BMW's!

[DeanOh]

"Don't steal the Harley riders' walking frames"?:lol:

Hahahaha



I've ridden 3 Harleys and a Buell now (Thanks White Trash) and I don't understand what the fuss is about Harleys.

White T...dude...Im disillusioned about harley's and Buells too, I might need you to set me up with some test rides.

[White trash]

Conclusion - if you HD dorks could actually ride, you'd be on BMW's!

Hey Oscar, you might want to take that back! I know 4 sports bike riders (3 are members of this site!) who got a hell of shock on the castle point road when they couldn't escape the far reaching clutches of me on my V-Rod.

I've also seen a particular long haired larikan "teaching" a few Ducati and Aprillia racers around Wanganui cemetary circuit on a friggin Softail Custom.

Or hows Jason Veitch at Westport last year. WON the open sport production race on an FXDX.

Before you start slagging peoples riding ability based on what they ride, have a think first. One day someone will "call you out" so you can put your money where your mouth is! :devil2:

[White trash]

Hahahaha




White T...dude...Im disillusioned about harley's and Buells too, I might need you to set me up with some test rides.

We gave Jim a $50 backhander to say nice things on the site :msn-wink:

Feel free to come by any time, you know where I am.

[Jackrat]

I don't normaly get involved in this type of discussion but WTH.
Iv'e owned two HDs and enjoyed them both.
I had no reliability issues with either of em'.
I didn't buy either with any thought to HP,Handling or any other consideration.
Only that I liked them,that also holds true with every other bike Iv'e owned.
The biggist and really noticable thing I became aware of when I bought my first one was how a lot of the jap riders I knew at the time showed an instant dislike that went way beyond brand loyalty or even common sence.
As a matter of fact some of them became complete assholes while bitching about HD riders being snobs.
I guess it rattles a few cages when all the HP,Handling,cost, type of arguments have no affect on somebody that simply likes something.
A bit like motorcycles themselfs I think.
Iv'e never tryed to explain bikes to a nonbeliver because it would be a waste of time,they never really get it,the same goes for HD.
As far as anybody that knocks anothers choise of bike,what ever it is.
POND SCUM.

[Oscar]

Hey Oscar, you might want to take that back! I know 4 sports bike riders (3 are members of this site!) who got a hell of shock on the castle point road when they couldn't escape the far reaching clutches of me on my V-Rod.

I've also seen a particular long haired larikan "teaching" a few Ducati and Aprillia racers around Wanganui cemetary circuit on a friggin Softail Custom.

Or hows Jason Veitch at Westport last year. WON the open sport production race on an FXDX.

Before you start slagging peoples riding ability based on what they ride, have a think first. One day someone will "call you out" so you can put your money where your mouth is! :devil2:

“Call me out” Sounds vaguelyhttp://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/ymca.gif

Wouldnae be the first time.

Yep, and there was a guy (Old was his name) uster win Moto-X on his XT500 (true – he rode to the meetings with a spare tyre over his shoulder). The thing was, how much faster would he have been on an YZ250?

Actually you could have a point - I can't possibly know a person's riding ability based on their choice of ride. What can be extrapolated is their mental state...http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/pillepalle.gif

[White trash]

I don't normaly get involved in this type of discussion but WTH.
Iv'e owned two HDs and enjoyed them both.
I had no reliability issues with either of em'.
I didn't buy either with any thought to HP,Handling or any other consideration.
Only that I liked them,that also holds true with every other bike Iv'e owned.
The biggist and really noticable thing I became aware of when I bought my first one was how a lot of the jap riders I knew at the time showed an instant dislike that went way beyond brand loyalty or even common sence.
As a matter of fact some of them became complete assholes while bitching about HD riders being snobs.
I guess it rattles a few cages when all the HP,Handling,cost, type of arguments have no affect on somebody that simply likes something.
A bit like motorcycles themselfs I think.
Iv'e never tryed to explain bikes to a nonbeliver because it would be a waste of time,they never really get it,the same goes for HD.
As far as anybody that knocks anothers choise of bike,what ever it is.
POND SCUM.


"Pond Scum"! :killingme

As you said, it's funny how HD riders are "snobs" yet it's riders of other machines with the problems? What is wrong with you people?

People ride HD's 'cause they like them. Didn't ask you to like them!

Get a fucking life and enjoy riding what YOU like and not bitch about another persons ride!

Jim started this thread for some healthy debate (months ago I might add!), fully receptive to others views. A couple of insecure shit slingers decide to take the high ground and tell us HD's are crap and if you like them you're a wanker that can't ride.

Pants to that.

[Oscar]

"Pond Scum"! :killingme

As you said, it's funny how HD riders are "snobs" yet it's riders of other machines with the problems? What is wrong with you people?

People ride HD's 'cause they like them. Didn't ask you to like them!

Get a fucking life and enjoy riding what YOU like and not bitch about another persons ride!

Jim started this thread for some healthy debate (months ago I might add!), fully receptive to others views. A couple of insecure shit slingers decide to take the high ground and tell us HD's are crap and if you like them you're a wanker that can't ride.

Pants to that.

Hot damn, the fishin' is good today...
http://webpages.charter.net/transient/smileys/troll.gif

Hot outa the blocks and he has the nerve to call other people insecure....

....I'm very secure in my prejudices, you should have more faith in yours. :baby:

[White trash]

Hot damn, the fishin' is good today...
http://webpages.charter.net/transient/smileys/troll.gif

Hot outa the blocks and he has the nerve to call other people insecure....

....I'm very secure in my prejudices, you should have more faith in yours. :baby:

That's just it. I get pissed off with prejudices full stop!

Espeacially when it comes to the bikes people ride, how's that make me insecure? I can't believe a motorcyclist would slag someone else, simply for their chosen bike is all.

your oppinion is just that, yours, and I wont begrudge you for it.

Everyone knows HDs for example don't go/stop/corner as well as alot of other manufacturers machines but I can't see why you'd judge someone simply for riding one. :angry2:

You sure are good fun to play with though, well done for erking me. Many try, few acheive.

[matthewt]

You sure are good fun to play with though, well done for erking me. Many try, few acheive.

WT, where the F**k is my V-Rod ?? I dropped off that bag of weed days ago !!

[James Deuce]

WT, where the F**k is my V-Rod ?? I dropped off that bag of weed days ago !!


It ain't gonna happen bro. That $50 he's talking about is vapourware.

[White trash]

WT, where the F**k is my V-Rod ?? I dropped off that bag of weed days ago !!

Nice try! :killingme

The deal was a bag of weed and a shoe box full of "P"! A WCC rubbish bag full of the bong cabbage you puff aint even worth a sporty, my friend. :finger:

[Oscar]

That's just it. I get pissed off with prejudices full stop!

Espeacially when it comes to the bikes people ride, how's that make me insecure? I can't believe a motorcyclist would slag someone else, simply for their chosen bike is all.

your oppinion is just that, yours, and I wont begrudge you for it.

Everyone knows HDs for example don't go/stop/corner as well as alot of other manufacturers machines but I can't see why you'd judge someone simply for riding one. :angry2:

You sure are good fun to play with though, well done for erking me. Many try, few acheive.


Jaysus, man - you gotta learn to relax.

The reason for the anti-HD prejudice is two fold.
1. Most bikers are performance oriented, and make the equation $ = performance. The are genuinely confused as to why someone would pay over the odds for a HD.
2. The image. 50 year old Dentists in chaps and Johnny Rebs? Pleeehze...
Did you see the "documentry" on the development of the V-Rod? They kept talking about and showing their Superbike! How many times did that thing actually qualify for an AMA race? Twice?
Nothing annoys a chap with a Jap bike (or in my case Kraut bike), than to be asked by one of the great unwashed "...why doncha ride a Harley Mister?"

Shit, when we finished this'n lets start one on those Pasta-bike wankers... :killingme

[White trash]

Jaysus, man - you gotta learn to relax.

The reason for the anti-HD prejudice is two fold.
1. Most bikers are performance oriented, and make the equation $ = performance. The are genuinely confused as to why someone would pay over the odds for a HD.
2. The image. 50 year old Dentists in chaps and Johnny Rebs? Pleeehze...
Did you see the "documentry" on the development of the V-Rod? They kept talking about and showing their Superbike! How many times did that thing actually qualify for an AMA race? Twice?
Nothing annoys a chap with a Jap bike (or in my case Kraut bike), than to be asked by one of the great unwashed "...why doncha ride a Harley Mister?"

Shit, when we finished this'n lets start one on those Pasta-bike wankers... :killingme


Agreed, I do need to relax. That bag of weed Matthew droped off has done nothing for me.

I dig a good debate as much as the next man, ask Jackrat! and I fully agree with the image orientated HD rider. I ride bikes because I like the ride, not really too fussed on how "bad" I look and I imagine you're much the same.

If you ever get a chance to ride a V-Rod, do so. They are an amazing machine, regardless of who built it.

Don't get me started on the "Spagetti Slurpers"!

[matthewt]

Shit, when we finished this'n lets start one on those Pasta-bike wankers... :killingme

I was wondering when someone would bring that up.

Italian bikes tend not to get as many hassles because the performance benchmark is closer (if not the same in many cases) to the jap bikes and as you say a lot of riders look at $$$ vs performance.

But owning the MV is the same really is a HD. I mean why on earth would you want to pay that sort of money when you could get 2 equally as good honda's.

Simply because it comes down to personal choice. liking a mv/hd/bmw/honda/ktm is all down to what the rider likes and how much they are prepared to spend to get what they want.

A few years ago if I'd wanted the ulitimate sports bike I would of got a R1 or GSXR1000. Instead I blew nearly twice that and got the MV F4 mainly because I had spent the last 3 years lusting after a photo of one and I could afford it at the time. Common sense really had nothing to do with it.

[White trash]

I was wondering when someone would bring that up.

Italian bikes tend not to get as many hassles because the performance benchmark is closer (if not the same in many cases) to the jap bikes and as you say a lot of riders look at $$$ vs performance.

But owning the MV is the same really is a HD. I mean why on earth would you want to pay that sort of money when you could get 2 equally as good honda's.

Simply because it comes down to personal choice. liking a mv/hd/bmw/honda/ktm is all down to what the rider likes and how much they are prepared to spend to get what they want.

A few years ago if I'd wanted the ulitimate sports bike I would of got a R1 or GSXR1000. Instead I blew nearly twice that and got the MV F4 mainly because I had spent the last 3 years lusting after a photo of one and I could afford it at the time. Common sense really had nothing to do with it.


Beautifully put.

Exactly the same reason I'd own a V-rod.

Well done that man!

[matthewt]

Don't get me started on the "Spagetti Slurpers"!

Ha, next time you have the v-rod out we'll swap.

Q: Why do Harley owners have tassels on their handlebars and clothing?
A: To be able to tell if they're moving or not !

[White trash]

Ha, next time you have the v-rod out we'll swap.

Q: Why do Harley owners have tassels on their handlebars and clothing?
A: To be able to tell if they're moving or not !

V-Rod's gone sorry mate. I sold it to the Prez of the Highway 61 the day after I got the shits with it trying to stay with Jimbo and Cycosis out Castle Point.

Man, that was some scarred undercarridge. Don't worry, there'll be others.

I'm keen as mustard to swap if you ever want to ride a flogged out Gixxer Six though. LOL

[vifferman]

I'd actually like to ride a Hoggley Doggley, and after spending one day in the summertime cruising around Herne Bay area on my Firestorm, I think a cruiser would've been a better ride.
I have ridden a couple of cruisers (VT1100 and VT750), and did consider buying one after a mate with a cruiser recommended I try them out, as it led to a much more relaxed style of ride (I was worried about my tendency to hoon, and the tickets that might result. BTW - I haven't had a speeding ticket since 1975, IIRC, and my lost traffic ticket was in 1977 for no mirror on my Elsinore after they changed the rules). Anyhow, I gave it a go, was open-minded about it, but I'm afraid the whole cruiser thang just doesn't do it for me, and that's what matters. But I'd still like to try a few Hoggleys. And a Buell or three. Hell - I'd like to have a ride on a bazillion different bikes, just for the experience of it.

[Oscar]

I was wondering when someone would bring that up.

Italian bikes tend not to get as many hassles because the performance benchmark is closer (if not the same in many cases) to the jap bikes and as you say a lot of riders look at $$$ vs performance.

But owning the MV is the same really is a HD. I mean why on earth would you want to pay that sort of money when you could get 2 equally as good honda's.

Simply because it comes down to personal choice. liking a mv/hd/bmw/honda/ktm is all down to what the rider likes and how much they are prepared to spend to get what they want.

A few years ago if I'd wanted the ulitimate sports bike I would of got a R1 or GSXR1000. Instead I blew nearly twice that and got the MV F4 mainly because I had spent the last 3 years lusting after a photo of one and I could afford it at the time. Common sense really had nothing to do with it.

Wheeee doggeeee!
Two on one cast!
And this'n one o' those Eyetalian Richbastid fish...




Nah, seriously - I got a picture of a F4 on my office wall, the one that's got "Motorcycle Art" in the rh corner. I almost bought a Husqvarna TE610 recently, and one of it's many charms was the fact that it had a plate on the steering head said "Built by MV Augusta". (I didnae buy it for two reasons - they sold out and an incredibly good deal on a KTM turned up).

Common sense has been absent in several of my bike purchases - the most recent being the BMW F650 Dakar. I just had to have it, against all the good advice I was given. It had, for the want of a better expression - wank factor. After this experience I can completely understand why some people just gotta have a particular bike...of course the reality of the situation set in quickly - as an adventure bike the Dakar was a pile of shit...

[White trash]

Wheeee doggeeee!
Two on one cast!
And this'n one o' those Eyetalian Richbastid fish...




of course the reality of the situation set in quickly - as an adventure bike the Dakar was a pile of shit...

Harley riders know it too ;)

[scumdog]

Jaysus, man - you gotta learn to relax.

The reason for the anti-HD prejudice is two fold.
1. Most bikers are performance oriented, and make the equation $ = performance. The are genuinely confused as to why someone would pay over the odds for a HD.
2. The image. 50 year old Dentists in chaps and Johnny Rebs? Pleeehze...
Did you see the "documentry" on the development of the V-Rod? They kept talking about and showing their Superbike! How many times did that thing actually qualify for an AMA race? Twice?
Nothing annoys a chap with a Jap bike (or in my case Kraut bike), than to be asked by one of the great unwashed "...why doncha ride a Harley Mister?"

Shit, when we finished this'n lets start one on those Pasta-bike wankers... :killingme
Hey, why doncha ride a Harley Mister :whistle:

[scumdog]

Ha, next time you have the v-rod out we'll swap.

Q: Why do Harley owners have tassels on their handlebars and clothing?
A: To be able to tell if they're moving or not !
Wrong - they have tassles (and ride Harleys) because they can!! :niceone:

[scumdog]

This is quite the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
What are you saying?
You compared your HD to an Anglia? That analogy would only work if the Anglbox cost more than the Ferrari...So are you saying you paid double the odds because you LIKE inferior performance?

As for your Jap Cruiser remark - I'm no cruiser fan, but I have ridden a coupla Kawasaki Vulcans - these things are half the price of the equivalent HD, faster, handle better and actually have brakes that work...apart from that they're "pathetic".

BTW - WHat's the point in worrying about resale if yer Cop can get 3 Kawasaki's for the price of two HD's? Duh...
Just in case this ain't a fishing expedition, the Anglia vs Ferrari thing was merely to indicate that you would not use one for the others purpose, you would (hopefully) buy the car for what you wanted/expected - but then you ain't seen my Anglia :niceone:
I got a bite! I gotta bite!! just carry on riding your Vulcan if thtas your bag :mellow:
Like I said difrent stokes fer difrnt folks :calm:

[MD]

I'm guilty. Forgive me. I shalt not slag off Harleys again, until the next time I slag off Harleys. I'm also guilty of buying a Sportster 1200 when they came out in 88 (the year, not cubic inches you Hogaphiles). It felt great, it felt fast and therefore it made me feel great. Then it ran out of gas! I must have struck the one lemon in every 5 made. Oops, sorry again. Loved that bike and also hated it at the same time.
If you're interested in one- give it a go you might enjoy it.

[scumdog]

This is quite the dumbest thing I've read in a while.
What are you saying?
You compared your HD to an Anglia? That analogy would only work if the Anglbox cost more than the Ferrari...So are you saying you paid double the odds because you LIKE inferior performance?

As for your Jap Cruiser remark - I'm no cruiser fan, but I have ridden a coupla Kawasaki Vulcans - these things are half the price of the equivalent HD, faster, handle better and actually have brakes that work...apart from that they're "pathetic".

BTW - WHat's the point in worrying about resale if yer Cop can get 3 Kawasaki's for the price of two HD's? Duh...
and next year you have to pay out the same amount of dollars as you get almost non-existant trade-in (might cover the price inflation) wheras the H-Ds are worth 3/4 the new price etc DUH! :sly:
No reflection on the Kwaka quality but with H-D holding such a high resale value it's all to do with finance like NZ cops getting the budget everything :disapint:

[merv]

Me I'll probably never buy a Harley but I don't worry about who rides them, that's their choice. As long as they have two wheels huh!

With motorcycling to me its all about the old "(wo)man and machine" thing and the challenge is to get the best out of the machine, to feel you have ridden it well. Like you've kept it running, or ridden it smooth, or ridden it fast, but sure as hell you had fun. Doesn't matter what it is, it doesn't have to be the latest, fastest 1 kg lighter model, its just got to feel right to you.

One of the most fun rides we had a few years ago is when my bro helped a mate of mine get his old Zenith 750 V twin going and that got ridden everywhere. It made a helluva sound, but wouldn't corner for shit, had rigid rear end etc etc, but man was that fun to ride.

If someone gave me a Harley I'd probably love riding it but I'm just too tight to lay cash out on one. One dirt bike and one road bike is enough for my wallet.

People can tell me VFRs are so last century, but that bike fits me well and is flawless in my opinion. The WR is so this century and I just enjoy riding it after not enjoying my DR250 as much. So if anyone bagged the bikes I have I'd just laugh and I'm sure that's just what the HD guys do (unless some of them truly do hate their rides).

Why would anyone have a dungeon full of bikes like my mate in the pic below?

Because that's his choice that's why. He doesn't have an HD, just pommy shit, but hey that's his thing and they are all fun to ride (if they are assembled).

[madandy]

After riding with literally hundreds of Harley riders in a recent Easter run my opinion of Harley's was tranformed from believing them all to be ignorant to realising they are just like me...into their bikes.
Some of the green cash brigade give the marque a bad name by never waving or blasting their drag pipes down sleepy cul-de-sacs at night but the, mainly Ulysses H-D riders were as friendly and welcoming as any riders I've had the pleasure of meeting.And rode damn well too!
When I was very young a H/D riding M/C gang of F/wits moved in accross the road from us and used to steal our firewood at night to feed their nightly bon-fires...My dad was club captain of our rugby club and the two senior teams ran them out of town (back in 1985)...but those gang boys sure did care for their rides and I lusted after one badly.Some of my cousins ride harleys and one even races his sportster at Manfield...they dont give me a hard time for riding jappas and I still lust after the chrome!
I want a V-rod!!!!!!!H/D commissioned Porsche to design that engine.The othe models are of no interest to me.But I was surprised, on a ride back from Auckland last Saturday, to have a Harley2-up(model unknown) pull in behind me and pace me at 140 ish and ride the corners nearly as quickly as I did...when they slipped by at around 160km/h both waved and I was left with a great big grin on face from that encounter :Punk:

[geneandjane]

Ha ha, yes this is getting interesting. Some Jappers seem to advance personal hits on HD riders, ( don't they Jim2 ). I love bikes, and are not rasist towards one segregated group of riders - each to their own - so that's why I bit back . You'd be better off wearing out the tips of your fingers typing something constructive - lets face it - you dont like HD's , so why the hell want to discuss them !!!!!

Below is an ]example of an insult to a certain type of bike enthusiast: -" Why do all Jap bike riders have the seating posture that resembles being taken from behind, by a greyhound !?!?!? " ( hurts does'nt it )

PPS I'm not an Aussie !! ( although I have nothing against them either !)
Over & Out

[Jackrat]

Ha ha, yes this is getting interesting. Some Jappers seem to advance personal hits on HD riders, ( don't they Jim2 ). I love bikes, and are not rasist towards one segregated group of riders - each to their own - so that's why I bit back . You'd be better off wearing out the tips of your fingers typing something constructive - lets face it - you dont like HD's , so why the hell want to discuss them !!!!!

Below is an ]example of an insult to a certain type of bike enthusiast: -" Why do all Jap bike riders have the seating posture that resembles being taken from behind, by a greyhound !?!?!? " ( hurts does'nt it )

PPS I'm not an Aussie !! ( although I have nothing against them either !)
Over & Out
Hahahaha,Good one.
But then you being a sportster rider,,an their not real Harleys anyway,,
:lol:

[James Deuce]

Ha ha, yes this is getting interesting. Some Jappers seem to advance personal hits on HD riders, ( don't they Jim2 ). I love bikes, and are not rasist towards one segregated group of riders - each to their own - so that's why I bit back . You'd be better off wearing out the tips of your fingers typing something constructive - lets face it - you dont like HD's , so why the hell want to discuss them !!!!!

Below is an ]example of an insult to a certain type of bike enthusiast: -" Why do all Jap bike riders have the seating posture that resembles being taken from behind, by a greyhound !?!?!? " ( hurts does'nt it )

PPS I'm not an Aussie !! ( although I have nothing against them either !)
Over & Out

You are just not paying attention and you still haven't read all of the thread yet have you?

Why the hell am I wasting my breath?

[geneandjane]

Hahahaha,Good one.
But then you being a sportster rider,,an their not real Harleys anyway,,
:lol:


I would 'nt argue with Mr Willie G Davidson - he's richer than you or I could ever imagine eh ! Very nice guy though - met him last year.
Jane

[geneandjane]

You are just not paying attention and you still haven't read all of the thread yet have you?

Why the hell am I wasting my breath?

They have said I have a short attention span...........glad u noticed !!
:whistle:

[FROSTY]

actually Um I was working on a very old rotary hoe a few years ago
it had a v twin pushrod motor.
I swear the motor was the same as in an iron head harley.

[geneandjane]

wll, maybe the Davidsons invented that too. May be like the Mitzubishi being a car....and also a video brand ! The mind boggles does'nt it !
Anyway - I kind'a like the ol rotary hoe ....
jane :scooter:

[FROSTY]

wll, maybe the Davidsons invented that too. May be like the Mitzubishi being a car....and also a video brand ! The mind boggles does'nt it !
Anyway - I kind'a like the ol rotary hoe ....
jane :scooter:
could just be --but the harley owner I was talking to whilst I was fixing it got pissed off.
He saw the manual open and said--Ahh I see ya working on a REAL bike --he wasnt impressed when I showed him the "real bike"

[Motu]

actually Um I was working on a very old rotary hoe a few years ago
it had a v twin pushrod motor.
I swear the motor was the same as in an iron head harley.

Bet that was a Howard - neat motor eh? did you check out the cams? they are ground on an angle to line up with the valves.

Uh,Porche designed the VRod thing huh? They did the Lada Samara too - what a fine bunch of engineers they are.

[Lou Girardin]

Bet that was a Howard - neat motor eh? did you check out the cams? they are ground on an angle to line up with the valves.

Uh,Porche designed the VRod thing huh? They did the Lada Samara too - what a fine bunch of engineers they are.

Whats wrong with the VRod engine? It's the only stock Hardley that goes.
Lou

[geneandjane]

Funny that mine has been totally trouble-free since purchasing it in '98, and many thousands of miles later, still not missing a beat. Lots of fun and and always extremely reliable, even on 500km's per day - no worries mate !
So, that was a very broad comment u made, dont you think ? sure everyone has motoring troubles - even the newest of cars brake down etc, so segregating the HD"S is a little petty.
Jane :cool:

[Oscar]

Funny that mine has been totally trouble-free since purchasing it in '98, and many thousands of miles later, still not missing a beat. Lots of fun and and always extremely reliable, even on 500km's per day - no worries mate !
So, that was a very broad comment u made, dont you think ? sure everyone has motoring troubles - even the newest of cars brake down etc, so segregating the HD"S is a little petty.
Jane :cool:


Who the fuck are you talking to?
Is it voices in your head again (the ones that told you to buy a HD?). Try upping your dosage.

To paraphrase the Bard: Methinks the wench doth protest too much...you will note that I slagged off a popular European model earlier and we have yet to have anybody spring to its defense.

Perhaps this insecurity is common to HD riders? It would certainly explain aspects of their “look at me I’m a bad ass” behaviour that manifests itself in everything from loud pipes to dressing like a member of The Village People…

[geneandjane]

Who the fuck are you talking to?
Is it voices in your head again (the ones that told you to buy a HD?). Try upping your dosage.

To paraphrase the Bard: Methinks the wench doth protest too much...you will note that I slagged off a popular European model earlier and we have yet to have anybody spring to its defense.

Perhaps this insecurity is common to HD riders? It would certainly explain aspects of their “look at me I’m a bad ass” behaviour that manifests itself in everything from loud pipes to dressing like a member of The Village People…


I was replying to Lou actually - but I 'm glad you feel better too for having your say. Each to their own. I just love to get out on the road and ride for hours - definatley not insecure - and hey ....
as for Village People...bet you've sung YMCA at least once in ya life...
admit it !! Your time is up - I'm off to work, and don't wish to carry on this conversation with you.
Jane

[Oscar]

I was replying to Lou actually - but I 'm glad you feel better too for having your say. Each to their own. I just love to get out on the road and ride for hours - definatley not insecure - and hey ....
as for Village People...bet you've sung YMCA at least once in ya life...
admit it !! Your time is up - I'm off to work, and don't wish to carry on this conversation with you.
Jane

Oh, dear... :baby:
Another one without the courage of their convictions...

[Oscar]

Here's a HD I would own...

http://www.ace-cafe-london.com/gif/xlcr.jpg

[Oscar]

I would 'nt argue with Mr Willie G Davidson - he's richer than you or I could ever imagine eh ! Very nice guy though - met him last year.
Jane

Well, that makes everything all right, then. Everybody knows that rich people are always right...





















...wait a minute - wasn't Saddam Hussien one of the richest men in the world?

[pete376403]

wll, maybe the Davidsons invented that too. May be like the Mitzubishi being a car....and also a video brand ! The mind boggles does'nt it !
Anyway - I kind'a like the ol rotary hoe ....
jane :scooter:

I could be wrong but I recall from the "Two Wheels" road test of the time that the Moto Guzzi V7 engine was originally designed to power a small farm tractor / agricultural implement.
Not that that is dishonourable - Lamborghini is as well known for their tractors as for the cars.

[Oscar]

I could be wrong but I recall from the "Two Wheels" road test of the time that the Moto Guzzi V7 engine was originally designed to power a small farm tractor / agricultural implement.
Not that that is dishonourable - Lamborghini is as well known for their tractors as for the cars.

MV Augusta makes Helicopters...

[pete376403]

Yeah but helicopters are sexy, but tractors and cultivators...

Hang on Harley own (or did at one stage) Aermacchi and Aermacchi make jet fighters and trainers (like the NZ "air force" used to have) and you can't get much sexier than that, so by extension, Harley = sexy shit

[jrandom]

MV Augusta makes Helicopters...

Made. Not makes. As 'resurrected' they're only doing bikes, to the best of my knowledge. Then again, I could be entirely wrong.

And it's 'Agusta'.

[pete376403]

Bet that was a Howard - neat motor eh? did you check out the cams? they are ground on an angle to line up with the valves.

Uh,Porche designed the VRod thing huh? They did the Lada Samara too - what a fine bunch of engineers they are.

You're not referring to the taper that is ground into cams to make the cam followers rotate, are you

[jrandom]

Harley = sexy shit

Buells are sexy. Never heard anyone argue against *that*.

Harley make those doggy old cruisers because people BUY them. If people stopped paying money for 1950s designs built with centimeter-level tolerances, they'd get their act into gear and start making stuff more in line with the Jap and Euro manufacturers.

In the meantime, if you want American Iron that goes and handles, just buy a Buell (and don't look too closely at the 'Made in ...' labels). Mmmmmm. XB9R...

[Motu]

You're not referring to the taper that is ground into cams to make the cam followers rotate, are you

No,the valves are angled into the block,so the cams are ground heavily tappered for the follower to sit on,hard case.There was one for sale on TradeMe awhile ago,tempting to repower the XLV with it,but he wanted too much for it.

Yeah Oscar,the XLCR is one of the few Harleys I'd want,there was one at the classic meeting at Puke done semi street tracker,very nice.The only Harley I really want is one of these - but I'd do a better job than this.

[Jackrat]

Harley also makes Parking meters,lawn mowers,bowling allys,And will hang their name on any cheap tacky peice of shit that will make them a quid.
You can even buy HD dunny seats.There has to be a good joke in that :shifty:

[DeanOh]

Buells are sexy. Mmmmmm. XB9R...

Just a question. why would anyone buy the XB9R when the 12R is only 1-2k more expensive, but offers more HP/bang for ur buck etc.

[merv]

I've also seen a particular long haired larikan "teaching" a few Ducati and Aprillia racers around Wanganui cemetary circuit on a friggin Softail Custom.

You're talking about this guy I guess, Darren Heeman isn't it from Nelson.

See the pics.

[White trash]

Here's a HD I would own...

http://www.ace-cafe-london.com/gif/xlcr.jpg

You beaut! :Punk: XLCR1000.

Unfortunately a sales flop, only 1700 were produced.

However, imagine a modern come back, utilizing a V-Rod engine....

Uh...uhh......uhhhhh I'm off to the toilet :o

[White trash]

Just a question. why would anyone buy the XB9R when the 12R is only 1-2k more expensive, but offers more HP/bang for ur buck etc.

Because the XB9 motor is a lovely free reving engine that you can beat the shit out of. The 12 is a stroked 9 and with it comes vibration, less revs and more crank inertia.

I've ridden them both extensively and what I want is a 9 in Black XB12R finnish.

Perfect.

[James Deuce]

Just a question. why would anyone buy the XB9R when the 12R is only 1-2k more expensive, but offers more HP/bang for ur buck etc.


White Trash assures me that the 9 is a much better ride than the 12.

[White trash]

You're talking about this guy I guess, Darren Heeman isn't it from Nelson.

See the pics.

Merv, when can i have a look at your extensive racing photo collection?! I am in awe at the shear volume of cool pics you have on hand.

I also Darren at a Flat track meeting at Hutt Park on the very same Softail. The man has balls of steel!

[jrandom]

Because the XB9 motor is a lovely free reving engine that you can beat the shit out of.

Yes. I knew that, in a sort of semi-instinctive bike-related gut feeling kind of way. I'm glad you articulated it for me.



what I want is a 9 in Black XB12R finnish.

Black is the One True Colour and two is the Right and Proper Number of Cylinders for a motorcycle. Thus sayeth jrandom.

[pete376403]

Harley also makes Parking meters,lawn mowers,bowling allys,And will hang their name on any cheap tacky peice of shit that will make them a quid.
You can even buy HD dunny seats.There has to be a good joke in that :shifty:

Bowling alleys? You'd be referring to AMF? I don't think Harley are part of the AMF empire anymore

[merv]

Merv, when can i have a look at your extensive racing photo collection?! I am in awe at the shear volume of cool pics you have on hand.


I don't have such an extensive collection but I have reloaded some on my own website here http://bikemerv.topcities.com/other02.html and here http://bikemerv.topcities.com/other03.html

When I created my site I put a bit of the old stuff on and then started putting new stuff on from when I joined Ulysses and there is a big gap between mid 80's and mid 90's and basically a man runs out of time. It partly coincides with when bike racing went through a low spot too with no more Lyall Bay, Gracefield, Castrol 6 hour or whatever so I have few photos of that era except of me and my Bro' dirt riding.

[Oscar]

Black is the One True Colour and two is the Right and Proper Number of Cylinders for a motorcycle. Thus sayeth jrandom.

You'd like me TDM, then?
http://oscar.smugmug.com/photos/542521-O-1.jpg

[PuppetMaster]

Because the XB9 motor is a lovely free reving engine that you can beat the shit out of. The 12 is a stroked 9 and with it comes vibration, less revs and more crank inertia. I've ridden them both extensively and what I want is a 9 in Black XB12R finnish.Perfect.


Okidokili...Id like the red one please. :yeah:

[jrandom]

You'd like me TDM, then?

Ooooh arrr.

Still want a black SV1000, though.

[White trash]

You'd like me TDM, then?
http://oscar.smugmug.com/photos/542521-O-1.jpg

WTF!!!!

Looks like it can't make up its mind wether it's a road bike or a trailie! Just what the world needs, another Yamaha with an identity crisis. :sick:












Sorry, I just can't do it as well as you, Oscar :D

[Jackrat]

Bowling alleys? You'd be referring to AMF? I don't think Harley are part of the AMF empire anymore

That's true but their bikes a still being judged by the standards that were set by AMF.Harley never had a rep' for being unreliable until AMF owned them.
Apart from that it's still a good wind up as a lot of HD owners don't have a clue.The odd thing is that the XR that so many find exseptable was an AMF bike.My FLT was also an AMF bike but was well sorted by the time I bought it.As much as HD makes a good joke, it has in fact lead the way in motorcycling in a number of ways but it's detractors also don't have a clue so it carrys on.I really like HDs but to many of the owners make themselfs such an easy target I can't resist,, :shifty:
I wonder how many HD knockers know that the fastest drag racing and street reg'oed bikes in both NZ and OZ are HDs,the fastest fuel drag bike in the world is an HD.Buel is currently cleaning up in BOT in europe.
Anybody out there riding a Vtwin of any type can thank HD.
And weather any of us like it or not HD is the most popular bike in the world.
The funny thing to me is that for years so many HD owners were total pricks,dumping on everybody else and now it's coming back on them they can't cop it.I mean how can you resist,it's just to easy.

[DEATH_INC.]

The funny thing to me is that for years so many HD owners were total pricks,dumping on everybody else and now it's coming back on them they can't cop it.I mean how can you resist,it's just to easy.

Right on jack! :niceone: I think this sums up the reason for most of the hardley slagging :Pokey: .....

[pete376403]

Team Spiderman’s blistering world motorcycle record set in Virginia.
5.895 @ 238.22 mph backed up by a 5.923 @ 243.59 mph (Larry McBride - Kawasaki) - has this ET or top speed been beaten?

[Jackrat]

I don't really know about that.I last took notice about a year ago.
What I do know is that it will be bettered,By who with what is the question aye.I hope it's a Yamaha, then I can rub it in my younger brothers face. :msn-wink:

[James Deuce]

I don't really know about that.I last took notice about a year ago.
What I do know is that it will be bettered,By who with what is the question aye.I hope it's a Yamaha, then I can rub it in my younger brothers face. :msn-wink:


Yeah, baby, YEAH! :niceone:

[merv]

I also Darren at a Flat track meeting at Hutt Park on the very same Softail. The man has balls of steel!

Yeah I couldn't believe it when I saw him at Wanganui and then Wellington street races and while not totally competitive he was doing pretty well steering such a long bike around the corners, and you could see he was so enjoying himself. That being the point of my earlier comment on this thread as I have enjoyed riding all kinds of bikes in my time and would never slag them, just maybe not buy them. I never went to Hutt Park but knew he was there. The man is a legend, what's he doing these days?

[scumdog]

Funny that mine has been totally trouble-free since purchasing it in '98, and many thousands of miles later, still not missing a beat. Lots of fun and and always extremely reliable, even on 500km's per day - no worries mate !
So, that was a very broad comment u made, dont you think ? sure everyone has motoring troubles - even the newest of cars brake down etc, so segregating the HD"S is a little petty.
Jane :cool:
Good on ya guys, my bikes have been not too bad when it comes to reliability and they are just what I want.
My bro runs a Guzzi and others run various H-Ds and Hondas. Suzukis but the biggest shit-slinging is about what beer we drinK :msn-wink:

[Jackrat]

Good on ya guys, my bikes have been not too bad when it comes to reliability and they are just what I want.
My bro runs a Guzzi and others run various H-Ds and Hondas. Suzukis but the biggest shit-slinging is about what beer we drinK :msn-wink:

Well all those poor buggers that don't drink Waikato do need a hand in learning the error of their ways :innocent:

[pete376403]

I don't really know about that.I last took notice about a year ago.
What I do know is that it will be bettered,By who with what is the question aye.I hope it's a Yamaha, then I can rub it in my younger brothers face. :msn-wink:

I've noted that a lot of the successful top fuel engines are based on old technology - eg GS / GSX Suzukis, 8 valve & GPZ Kawasakis and of course Harley. I guess the boost levels they run with the wicked chemical fuel mixes make up for a lot. The McBride Kawasaki is supposed to be around 1000 HP http://www.larrymcbride.com/bikespecs.htm
FJ1200 could be a good starting point. perhaps

[magnum]

sorry but nostelgia doesnt cut it with the price the hds want its farkin criminal,outside of gang members and born again bikers who would pay so much money for so little bike. :kick:

[Jackrat]

sorry but nostelgia doesnt cut it with the price the hds want its farkin criminal,outside of gang members and born again bikers who would pay so much money for so little bike. :kick:
Well not you tight ass.
Bikes are about passion not money. :beer:

[Lou Girardin]

I guess it doesn't just apply to Harleys. But having heard about several belt breakages, I wouldn't buy a belt driven bike.
Lou

[SPman]

Well not you tight ass.
Bikes are about passion not money. :beer:
That's it, in one!! :2thumbsup

[Motu]

It's crazy what we are prepard to pay for a bike eh - I remember being astounded as a 16yr old when the panelbeater next door paid $1200 for a BSA Lightening...holy shit,that was unbelievable,but then a few years later he paid $2500 for a Triumph Hurricane,what a fucking idiot he was eh?

[White trash]

It's crazy what we are prepard to pay for a bike eh - I remember being astounded as a 16yr old when the panelbeater next door paid $1200 for a BSA Lightening...holy shit,that was unbelievable,but then a few years later he paid $2500 for a Triumph Hurricane,what a fucking idiot he was eh?

Hurricane! Imagine what you'd pay to get one now IF you could find someone prepared to let one go! :wacko:

[Jackrat]

Yep money sucks.Wish I had some.
Looking through Bike trader mag I see a Suzuki T500 going for $3000.
Dang I had three of them things an never payed over a grand for any of em'.
I sure wish I still owned some of the bikes I had back then.
650 Triumph TR6R,Payed $1500 for it,today if you can find a real one you can start at $5000.Ducati SD900,payed $7000,A good one today $10000.
1972 Honda CB750,Payed $2500,One in the same nick today,Shudder to think.BLOODY MONEY AYE!!! :whistle:

[Kickaha]

I always used to upset the Harley riders when questioned or abused on my choice of bike by say "Well I would have bought a Harley but I wanted something that goes fast and handles"

I've seen Darren at exiting the Ruapuna sweeper full opposite lock on a wet track,a very talented rider,in saying that he's been booted from a couple of meetings because at times his riding has been dangerous although he seems to have calmed down a bit over the last few years.

[Timber020]

Harley also makes mobile homes, they serve all, from the newly wed to the nearly dead. Actually I think its mobile homes (marketed under another name but having simular performance specs) division helped it keep alive during the 80's. They also do specialist farbricating for trucks.

Harley davidson is not a good manufacturer or developer of motorcycles, as a company their core compantancy is there marketing which is largely based on there historical image association with gangs (and wannabe rebels) and being US made.

When applying strategic theory to what the company was going to do to compete in the international market, Harley first realised that at the time they couldnt sell overseas in any sort of volume. Harley recognised they couldnt beat other manufacturers in quality, performance, handling or price (although they were at a considerable advantage tax and tarrif wise to the other makers). They had to sell using the one thing they could offer, that they were USA all the way. (yeah right). They revamped there production processes to install some build quality, (some of there machineing tools were still of the mass overhead belt driven type-running off a single generator in the factory).
Engine tolerances were improved and to help with reliability harley engines were produced understressed. (ie their 1340cc engine put out a little over 60 hp). Japanese components had to be used as Harley was unable to produce these of such a quality to meet the new standard of its own quality control and cost effectiveness. They have also set a policy of underproducing to increase demand and thus percieved value. Sure their resale is more, its because theres a few thousand suckers waiting on the factory to spit them out and that the average harley does relatively low unstressed miles and isnt exposed to the rain much, if at all.

Harley also found that there were alot of older white collars getting back into motorcycles after there kids had left home. These guys did to Harley what they had done to Corvette years earlier, they brought machines based on earlier admiration at a time they didnt have to option to buy one. (The Nissan 300 car failed in the US not because it wasnt as good as the corvette but because guys that brought it had always wanted to have one since they were young).
Harley as a company have never worked hard, there r and d puts more into show than go, they are able to sit back and make backwards bikes and people pay more for them. Like truimph they didnt deserve to survive the early 80's, its only been luck, the Hells Angels and the same mindset that thinks the US should invade everyone and is right in everything that it does that has saved it.

If I was to offer you a car that was the size of a falcon with a 6L v8 engine that produced the same power as a toyota corolla 1.6 and build quality of the same yet cost twice as much, how many harley fans out there would buy it? Or a computer that for $5000 performed like a Amiga 500?

I have nothing against harley riders in the same way I have nothing against women that stay with men that beat them, its not that they arent great people, good riders or not smart, its just there judgement is a little off.

PS Darrens a legend, he has balls like harley airfilter covers, big and made of steel.

[Ghost Lemur]

One point you missed was the US governments willingness to impose tarriffs on imported motorcycles while HD found it's feet and came back from the brink of bankcuptcy.

I love how the US touts "free trade", except when their manufacturers get hammered then they're all for tarriffs (still so long as no one else does the same thing).

[/off-topic rant]

[Motu]

One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.

[Jackrat]

One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.
They do it's called a sportster.
The pipes are available over the counter,Change the rear wheel an bars and you have a tracker.All you gott'a do is spend between $15-20000 on a bike an then F with it.Hmmmm,You'd have to be keen huh!!

[pete376403]

Have Sportsters got the two front heads and dual Mikuni's?
Cycle mag did an in depth article on the alloy XRs when they replaced the iron motors. HD were using these for road racing as well as flat track. HD also bent the rules by a huge amount when the used a modified front head on the back cylinder so they could run dual carbs but apparently the AMA felt there was little chance of them winning so they let HD get away with it

[LB]

Hurricane! Imagine what you'd pay to get one now IF you could find someone prepared to let one go! :wacko:
At either the Sound of Thunder or the Britten meeting at Ruapuna earlier this year (went to both and can't remember which one it was) there were two (two!!) parked together in the carpark. I hadn't seen one for many years. They were both immaculate. I was very impressed.

[LB]

And it's 'Agusta'.
Thanks JR - I've only just read this thread, and had been dying to correct Oscar, but didn't want to come across as a know-it-all bitch.......

[Ms Piggy]

Like the fashion industry the Harley industry bothers me. As far as a products go they are not very good but as for a brand they are incredibly successful.

Yes well as for me I know very little at all about bikes (yet) but Harley have the merchandising corner of their market sewn up - I've mentioned this before but in Hamilton at one of the bike shops I saw Harley Davidson Ken dolls! :killingme

[Motu]

They do it's called a sportster.
The pipes are available over the counter,Change the rear wheel an bars and you have a tracker.All you gott'a do is spend between $15-20000 on a bike an then F with it.Hmmmm,You'd have to be keen huh!!

Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?

[geneandjane]

Yeah - just what I want too. And, as for the beer - be thankful you don't have partake in this XXXX or VB , over in Oz !! Give me a Canterbury Draught any day, ... or Speights !
Jane

[geneandjane]

Blaa blaa blaa......mmmmmm - well you've called me a sucker for buying something I still love - that's amusing!!
This is my 10th year of riding everything from Honda's, Daytona's, and now a Harley for a past 6 years. I'll never be converted back to anything else ( sorry to disappoint you ). Over many wonderfully exhilarating journeys with hundreds of fellow bikers during the last decade, ( and at least 60% of the duration spent riding in rail, hail snow, and blasting southery winds ), I could not be happiers with my life. I speak for many of the friends ( mostly HD riders ) that once you ride HD, it's very rarely you'll find too many yearning to convert back to other brands - it's a passion for a lifetime.

Can anyone explain why the Japs have copied the Harley Big Block style, and HD had to take out a copyright on the sound.....because they wanted to take that too !! (Since then ,the patent on the sound has been dropped, so thus the rumbling Hondas emerge.)

Food for thought.
Jane

[Motu]

Let me guess......hhmmmm.....could it be something to do with money?

[Kickaha]

One thing has always puzzled me - the winningest bike in any series has to be the XR750,this bike has dominated dirt track racing for over 3 decades,and before that it's side valve predicesor.If you want to ride dirt track in the USA then you ride an XR750 - it's a HARLEY DAVIDSON,orange and black,it has a 45deg V twin and nothing can beat it....so how come HD has never marketed a bike that remotely looks like a flattracker? they made the cafe racer XLCR,the rest are just Harleys.Oh,they made the XR1000,and if you go back a few pages you will see a photo I took of a friend of mines XR1000,but see how it has been made to look like a cruiser,even having right side pipes.

If they made a streettracker I would try my hardest to get one.

You'd have to ask why it is they can domiante that class,if you look at the history of American flat track you would find that even from the 50's & 60's any time someone built a bike that could threaten Harley on the dirt tracks the rules got changed to either elimate it or restrict it.

Several companies make Harley flattrack replica's some of them are very very nice indeed and it suprised me as well that it wasn't a market the parent company would exploit.

Harley had tried to copyright or trademark the sound starting in 1994,but ended up withdrawing the application in 2000 after trying for 6 years so there wasn't ever a patent on the "Harley" sound.

[Jackrat]

Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?
Yeah it is to late for HD now.Reading The HD owners web sites it becomes pretty obvious that a Lot of old school HD owners are not happy with being ignored by HD in favour of the yuppie set.HD must be walking a very fine line at the moment.They could learn from Triumph and listen to what the faithfull are saying.I think HD are so stuck in the custom cruiser mode their in for a very short future.

[Oscar]

Blaa blaa blaa......mmmmmm - well you've called me a sucker for buying something I still love - that's amusing!!
This is my 10th year of riding everything from Honda's, Daytona's, and now a Harley for a past 6 years. I'll never be converted back to anything else ( sorry to disappoint you ). Over many wonderfully exhilarating journeys with hundreds of fellow bikers during the last decade, ( and at least 60% of the duration spent riding in rail, hail snow, and blasting southery winds ), I could not be happiers with my life. I speak for many of the friends ( mostly HD riders ) that once you ride HD, it's very rarely you'll find too many yearning to convert back to other brands - it's a passion for a lifetime.

Can anyone explain why the Japs have copied the Harley Big Block style, and HD had to take out a copyright on the sound.....because they wanted to take that too !! (Since then ,the patent on the sound has been dropped, so thus the rumbling Hondas emerge.)

Food for thought.
Jane


Converted?
It's a motorcycle fer god's sake...
What is this thing with branding?

I recently bought a new car - it just happen to be a Holden that looks a little bit sporty (note I said "looks" sporty) I bought it for various reasons, includiing size and price. Now it turns out to be a bogun magnet - it's either "..why didncha buy a Ford, Mister" or "...Holdens rule..."...it's just a bloody car, people - one that has as much in common with an Aussie V8 supercar as my TDM does to Rossi's M1...

Over the years I've had thirty-summat motorcycles or differing brands - mostly Jappers and the odd Euro (some very odd Euros - a CZ250). I think I've had more Honda's than any other brand, but I'd never, ever say "I am a Honda man"...why limit yerself? I had an Yamaha IT one year and a Suzuki PE the next for reasons of performance, not image...

I guess it just confirms what I had suspected over the years - there are two groups of motorcyclists - the racers, people who ride what they do mainly for reasons to do with how the motorcyle performs, and the lifestylers - those who want the whole image thing, the sound, the look and all that...

As for why the Japanese started making cruiser, why wouldn't they? When the started, HD was a complete joke, and not expected to last. If they could build better and cheaper bikes, they'd be mad not too. Besides, it could be argued that Yamaha had a hand in kicking off the whole cruiser thing, with it's XS650 Special...

[Oscar]

Thanks JR - I've only just read this thread, and had been dying to correct Oscar, but didn't want to come across as a know-it-all bitch.......


It's probably a good thing you didn't.
Perhaps JR could explain this:

MV Augusta Website (http://www.mvagusta.it/)


The rebirth of the MV Agusta brand, the repositioning of Cagiva amongst high-powered motorbikes, and the constant evolution of Husqvarna products, have been the main stages in the development of the MV Agusta Motorcycles S.p.A company.

[scumdog]

Harley also makes mobile homes, they serve all, from the newly wed to the nearly dead. Actually I think its mobile homes (marketed under another name but having simular performance specs) division helped it keep alive during the 80's. They also do specialist farbricating for trucks.

Harley davidson is not a good manufacturer or developer of motorcycles, as a company their core compantancy is there marketing which is largely based on there historical image association with gangs (and wannabe rebels) and being US made.

When applying strategic theory to what the company was going to do to compete in the international market, Harley first realised that at the time they couldnt sell overseas in any sort of volume. Harley recognised they couldnt beat other manufacturers in quality, performance, handling or price (although they were at a considerable advantage tax and tarrif wise to the other makers). They had to sell using the one thing they could offer, that they were USA all the way. (yeah right). They revamped there production processes to install some build quality, (some of there machineing tools were still of the mass overhead belt driven type-running off a single generator in the factory).
Engine tolerances were improved and to help with reliability harley engines were produced understressed. (ie their 1340cc engine put out a little over 60 hp). Japanese components had to be used as Harley was unable to produce these of such a quality to meet the new standard of its own quality control and cost effectiveness. They have also set a policy of underproducing to increase demand and thus percieved value. Sure their resale is more, its because theres a few thousand suckers waiting on the factory to spit them out and that the average harley does relatively low unstressed miles and isnt exposed to the rain much, if at all.

Harley also found that there were alot of older white collars getting back into motorcycles after there kids had left home. These guys did to Harley what they had done to Corvette years earlier, they brought machines based on earlier admiration at a time they didnt have to option to buy one. (The Nissan 300 car failed in the US not because it wasnt as good as the corvette but because guys that brought it had always wanted to have one since they were young).
Harley as a company have never worked hard, there r and d puts more into show than go, they are able to sit back and make backwards bikes and people pay more for them. Like truimph they didnt deserve to survive the early 80's, its only been luck, the Hells Angels and the same mindset that thinks the US should invade everyone and is right in everything that it does that has saved it.

If I was to offer you a car that was the size of a falcon with a 6L v8 engine that produced the same power as a toyota corolla 1.6 and build quality of the same yet cost twice as much, how many harley fans out there would buy it? Or a computer that for $5000 performed like a Amiga 500?

I have nothing against harley riders in the same way I have nothing against women that stay with men that beat them, its not that they arent great people, good riders or not smart, its just there judgement is a little off.

PS Darrens a legend, he has balls like harley airfilter covers, big and made of steel.
Yep, I'd buy that car - if you could make it look like a '67 fastback Mustang or a '63 Galaxie convertible.
I bought a Sporty because thats what I WANTED! if I wanted to go real fast etc I would have bought a Hyabusa in the first place!
By the same token I have a Sako rifle, an old 303 would do the same job most of the time too but I WANTED a Sako :ar15:

[Jackrat]

It was Kawasaki that made the first cruiser styled bike then Yam and then HD
then Susuki.Anybody that thinks the japs are copying HD with the cruiser style have it wrong.HD didn't come out with a factory custom until the superglide based Night train.The style may be American but HD had FA to do with it.They just followed a trend that was set by chopper riders But the japs beat them to it by two years,,so who's really copying who??
Bloody HD huh,, just a Kawasaki clone!! :killingme

[jrandom]

It's probably a good thing you didn't.
Perhaps JR could explain this:

MV Augusta Website (http://www.mvagusta.it/)

Um. Sorry, Oscar, what am I supposed to be explaining? Your 'MV Augusta' link that points to mvagusta.it? :p

[Oscar]

Um. Sorry, Oscar, what am I supposed to be explaining? Your 'MV Augusta' link that points to mvagusta.it? :p
My mistake - I thought you were trying to say they had dropped the "MV", as opposed to correcting me spelling...(which is bad form, IMHO)...6

[jrandom]

bad form, IMHO

I know, I know... the hair is well and truly split. I wouldn't, normally. I just know *so* many people that get 'MV Agusta' wrong in precisely that manner that it leaped out as an opportunity to make the point.

[Oscar]

I know, I know... the hair is well and truly split. I wouldn't, normally. I just know *so* many people that get 'MV Agusta' wrong in precisely that manner that it leaped out as an opportunity to make the point.


It was pretty dumb - the poster is on the wall beside my desk....

[Motu]

You'd have to ask why it is they can domiante that class,if you look at the history of American flat track you would find that even from the 50's & 60's any time someone built a bike that could threaten Harley on the dirt tracks the rules got changed to either elimate it or restrict it

Too right - the AMA made the rules to suit HD,too sad to even laugh at.

The history of both forms of speedway are interesting to look at - the English left it open and allowd specialised bikes to develope,with the likes of Wal Phillips working with JAP on motors and developing special frames.Speedway bikes have been locked in a formula for years,but the design came about through lack of rules.

The Yanks on the other hand stepped in early to stop factory teams dominating,making factory specials illeagal and allowing riders to buy bikes on the showroom floor.Of course it didn't stop the manufactorers,but it set the style of bike as street machine.When the English OHC racers like Velo and Nortons showed their form of course they were promptly banned,then the pushrod bikes were limited to 500cc to keep the side valve Yank bikes competitive - actualy not a bad rule as they were evenly matched.In 1971 capacity was lifted to 750 regardless of engine and Harley were hit hard,but then as suitable bikes to base a flattracker on became limited the XR750 became the only bike to win.Except of course the fabulous RS750 from Honda.

They had a Sportster class a few years back and now Streettrackers are an up and coming class - check these two out.Rich King had a lot of success on the RS750 Honda,looks like he's still a Honda man.

[scumdog]

You are just not paying attention and you still haven't read all of the thread yet have you?

Why the hell am I wasting my breath?

Whoa JIm2, your pushing it there, My 1200s Sporty is the "GT" of the H-D line!!! If you know of a better handling H-D let me know :mellow:

[scumdog]

Too right - the AMA made the rules to suit HD,too sad to even laugh at.

The history of both forms of speedway are interesting to look at - the English left it open and allowd specialised bikes to develope,with the likes of Wal Phillips working with JAP on motors and developing special frames.Speedway bikes have been locked in a formula for years,but the design came about through lack of rules.

The Yanks on the other hand stepped in early to stop factory teams dominating,making factory specials illeagal and allowing riders to buy bikes on the showroom floor.Of course it didn't stop the manufactorers,but it set the style of bike as street machine.When the English OHC racers like Velo and Nortons showed their form of course they were promptly banned,then the pushrod bikes were limited to 500cc to keep the side valve Yank bikes competitive - actualy not a bad rule as they were evenly matched.In 1971 capacity was lifted to 750 regardless of engine and Harley were hit hard,but then as suitable bikes to base a flattracker on became limited the XR750 became the only bike to win.Except of course the fabulous RS750 from Honda.

They had a Sportster class a few years back and now Streettrackers are an up and coming class - check these two out.Rich King had a lot of success on the RS750 Honda,looks like he's still a Honda man.
Motu my man, don't be too hard on the H-Ds, they are a bit like the Formula Ford racing, the idea is to make the racing linked to the drivers ability rather then th HP of the bike/vehicle :cool:

[Motu]

This thread is getting too long and we are forgeting who we are - earlier on I mentioned an XR750 is the only Harley I want...sits on one of my highest pedestals.It was made to a formula as you say,but any bike can be used.With the bikes all the same the racing is very close and all about the riders abilities not the bike.Flattrack is one of the most exciting forms of bike racing - seeing the lead change four time in a corner is good stuff.(I got some videos in the early 90s when Sky were showing it)

[nallac]

heres an old thread for you harley bashers..................................

[James Deuce]

Lol. Don't feed the troll.

There was a historical (hysterical) framework that will be lost on people now too.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Sure you can make a Sporty look like a flattracker,but hardly anyone does - and most importantly HD themselves have never capitalised on the domination of the XR750,it's almost like they ignore the most sucessful bike ever produced.

As you know the streettracker look is popular for XS650s,one day the factories will look at what customisers are doing and copy it,but it's kinda late for HD don't you think?


Ta Daaaaahhhhh!!! (http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/2006_Campaigns/XR1200_minisite/XR1200.jsp?locale=en_GB&swfxrdna=1)


ask and you shall receive. Oh, wait, in an inspired bit of genius, Europe only.

and if HD are so good at marketing, why would they stop importing something that looks and performs like a real motorbike, not some stupid luxo-barge? I refer to the XL1200R.

[Bonez]

Where are the moderators when you need them most?

Mind you prices have dropped quite sharply since Jim2s OP in '04. My how time flys..........

[Maha]

Where are the moderators when you need them most?

Mmmmmmm wonder?.... i got slapped for dredging a thread that was 20 months old...:gob:

[Bonez]

Mmmmmmm wonder?.... i got slapped for dredging a thread that was 20 months old...:gob:Yeah I got the same for a thread a month or so old.

[nallac]

oops i better watch out then.............................................. ......

[Bonez]

oops i better watch out then.............................................. ......What ever happened to Jackrat? I enjoyed his banter.

[Jantar]

Where are the moderators when you need them most?

Mind you prices have dropped quite sharply since Jim2s OP in '04. My how time flys..........

Yes? You called?

[Bonez]

Yes? You called?It seems a little troll has popped out from under his bridge ;)

All Jim2s fault...................

[mudthug]

It was Kawasaki that made the first cruiser styled bike then Yam and then HD
then Susuki.Anybody that thinks the japs are copying HD with the cruiser style have it wrong.HD didn't come out with a factory custom until the superglide based Night train.The style may be American but HD had FA to do with it.They just followed a trend that was set by chopper riders But the japs beat them to it by two years,,so who's really copying who??
Bloody HD huh,, just a Kawasaki clone!! :killingme




:gob:What......................!!!!!!:bash:

First production Indian 1901
Triumph 1902
Harley-Davidson 1903 -- first cruiser built 1971
Honda 1946 -- first cruiser built 1980
Kawasaki 1952 -- first cruiser built 1985
Suzuki 1952 -- first cruiser built 2001
Yamaha 1955 -- first cruiser built 1978

So who is copying who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek5:

[Jantar]

It seems a little troll has popped out from under his bridge ;).......

Oh you flatterer. I only wish I was a LITTLE Troll. :rolleyes:

[James Deuce]

:gob:What......................!!!!!!:bash:

First production Indian 1901
Triumph 1902
Harley-Davidson 1903 -- first cruiser built 1971
Honda 1946 -- first cruiser built 1980
Kawasaki 1952 -- first cruiser built 1985
Suzuki 1952 -- first cruiser built 2001
Yamaha 1955 -- first cruiser built 1978

So who is copying who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek5:

And who isn't looking at the date of the first post?

Jackrat hasn't posted for 2 years, so if you're looking for a :girlfight: it ain't happening.

[Bonez]

:gob:What......................!!!!!!:bash:

First production Indian 1901
Triumph 1902
Harley-Davidson 1903 -- first cruiser built 1971
Honda 1946 -- first cruiser built 1980
Kawasaki 1952 -- first cruiser built 1985
Suzuki 1952 -- first cruiser built 2001
Yamaha 1955 -- first cruiser built 1978

So who is copying who !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek5:Kawasaki LTD series was a bit before 1985. I think around 1979. Suzuki "L" series was about the same time as the LTDs. Basicly following Yamahas lead if anything. HD were in dire straits at the time and punters were wanting an alternatives to the traditional UJM styling.

[Bonez]

And who isn't looking at the date of the first post?

Jackrat hasn't posted for 2 years, so if you're looking for a :girlfight: it ain't happening.Oh c'mon Jim. Nothing wrong with a good :girlfight:

[mudthug]

Kawasaki LTD series was a bit before 1985. I think around 1979. Suzuki "L" series was about the same time as the LTDs. Basicly following Yamahas lead if anything. HD were in dire straits at the time and punters were wanting an alternatives to the traditional UJM styling.

sorry these are first american styled cruisers you could say copy cats:whistle:

[James Deuce]

Oh FFS, will SOMEONE PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!

[Bonez]

sorry these are first american styled cruisers you could say copy cats:whistle:Now that wasn't hard was it?
Reminds me of the time the HD and me, on my 650 custom, left the Wellington ferrie. Pissing down it was, in bucket loads. The HD stopped 5 miles down the motorway. The ol CB650 made it all the way to Hastings without a hickup ;).

Poor Jim2 is having reoccurring threadmares lol.

[nallac]

oh no i've been infracted. :weep::weep:what do i do now?.....................

I want my mummy.......:crybaby:

[Bonez]

oh no i've been infracted. :weep::weep:what do i do now?.....................

I want my mummy.......:crybaby:Welcome to the club. A very exclusive one it is too ;)

[nallac]

so i've noticed.

[Bonez]

so i've noticed.Thing is there's some interesting stuff in these old threads.

[nallac]

Thats what i thought,
thats why i was scrolling thru them last night
its interesting to see what bikes the long term KB'rs had back then

i actually found this thread when i did a search on SV1000's.pg20

Anyway at least i got a present from Jantar.