5km/hr speed tolerance

[Da Bird]

Now that you are all getting used to the 41km/hr plus licence suspension law, I thought I would just mention that in a couple of weeks when school goes back, there will be a campaign on speed near schools. The speed tolerance before ticket issuing will be 5km/hr and speed cameras will be involved. It is nationwide as far as I know so watch your speed around schools.

The 5km/hr tolerance around schools sounds like a permanent thing as far as I can tell.

BC.

[Zed]

Thanks for the heads up BC!

Now, must remember to avoid schools at all costs...:cool:

[dveus]

That one makes alot of sense to me. Can never tell what the kids will do next.

[slopster]

0-10km over = $30
Speed camera = no demerits
WTF do they hope to achieve

[RantyDave]

The 5km/hr tolerance around schools sounds like a permanent thing as far as I can tell.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Dave

[Wasp]

Is that for all times of day? or prehaps just during school hours? or before and after school?

Either way no more hooning past my old school laughing at all my mates that are still there cos they havnt got jobs :(

p.s. its on a fairly main road so traffic is bad before and after school. ive even seen some chick get run over (her fault).

[N4CR]

Finally a speed reduction that makes sense.
I usually do slow down around the school I go past on my normal route. Not to mention the fact that loads of kids go across the road to get obese at the dairy anyway so there are plenty of 'targets' to dodge :| .

Hey BC any info on what was happening around GI/St Helliers today - the flying popo were around for a very long time.

[John]

even I dont speed around schools, dont want to kill the ghostriders of the future...

[Da Bird]

Finally a speed reduction that makes sense.
I usually do slow down around the school I go past on my normal route. Not to mention the fact that loads of kids go across the road to get obese at the dairy anyway so there are plenty of 'targets' to dodge :| .

Hey BC any info on what was happening around GI/St Helliers today - the flying popo were around for a very long time.

No sorry, don't know. Not in my patch.

[Finn]

So we can't yell at em, can't smack em, now we're not even allowed to run the little shits over?

[Marmoot]

Now that you are all getting used to the 41km/hr plus licence suspension law, I thought I would just mention that in a couple of weeks when school goes back, there will be a campaign on speed near schools. The speed tolerance before ticket issuing will be 5km/hr and speed cameras will be involved. It is nationwide as far as I know so watch your speed around schools.

The 5km/hr tolerance around schools sounds like a permanent thing as far as I can tell.

BC.

What is the radius of "around school"?
1km? 500m? 200m?
It would be really helpful to know.

Thanks BC

Btw, the normal 10km/h tolerance still applies everywhere else, right? :scratch:

[Korea]

I guess with all that extra police presence there'll be a few KBers needing to find a new pastime to replace loitering around school yards in their knee-length burberry coats, eh?

[Da Bird]

What is the radius of "around school"?
1km? 500m? 200m?
It would be really helpful to know.

Thanks BC

Btw, the normal 10km/h tolerance still applies everywhere else, right? :scratch:

Good question, I thought about that as well. The wording of the offence is something like "Exceeded 50km/hr (or whatever speed zone the school is in) in the vicinity of a school". I guess it will be open to interpretation as to what is "in the vicinity" of the school but it only affects the tolerance level, not the fines so I don't think it will be a major problem.

The 10km/hr tolerance still applies elsewhere but if you are driving less than 10km/hr over the limit in circumstances that would warrant a ticket, there is nothing to stop a cop issuing one.

If I find out any more about the school thing I will post it.

BC.

[Karma]

What is the radius of "around school"?
1km? 500m? 200m?
It would be really helpful to know.


Didn't it say on that restraining order they gave you? :eyepoke:

[JWALKER]

cheers, for the heads up on that.

[bobsmith]

This is just so tipical of NZ traffic law.... written so ambigously (think the excessive acceleration rule in boy racer act) and with no scientific guidelines whatsoever (but then what do you expect of law enforcement personnals and lawyers) so that it is left entirely up to the "law enforcement personnals" with ever changing mood swings to decide on the boundaries of the law which is never written down.....

[Sniper]

Thanks BC. This is one law Im happy to agree with.

[Lou Girardin]

The 10km/hr tolerance still applies elsewhere but if you are driving less than 10km/hr over the limit in circumstances that would warrant a ticket, there is nothing to stop a cop issuing one.
BC.

Has anyone defined what those circumstances might be?
Failing the attitude test perhaps?
Cops blood sugar too low?
It's hard to see how 5 or so k's will make a difference to the potential risk of an offence.

[Edbear]

Definitelt agree with slowing down passing schools! The kids are pretty well supervised in my local area, but I usually try to avoid passing the schools during times when kids are arriving or leaving, as one has to crawl along, stopping and starting, the whole street is completely crammed with kids, cages and buses everywhere! Can't see how one could get within cooee of the speed limit!

[Motu]

I supose they will be outside Mt Roskill Primary catching cars speeding down the steep part of Frost rd....an easy catch as it's almost impossible not to let the speed build.No one ever speeds past the school,it's right on an intersection....but the Cop issues the ticket right outside the school which makes it look worse than it is.

[Ixion]

On the face of it it seems a nice politically correct tightening up. Who could complain, protecting kids and all that. Until we realise that this will also apply to someone tootling past at 2 am in the morning, with not a kiddy in sight. And vicinity is so vague that a motorist might be pinged for 5kph over "in the vicinity" of a school several streets and a kilometre away. In fact there are very few places in cities that are more than a couple of kilometres from a school or some sort or other. So is this really an underhand way of effectively reducing the 10kph tolerance universally?

[MisterD]

Like you'd want to speed with all those SUVs around with drivers more focussed on the "little darlings" fighting in the back seats than the other traffic on the road.

[Motig]

No arguments with the 5k, but I presume it only applies during school hours.

[RiderInBlack]

If you dudes are going to do us for 5km over, they better make speedo checks part of the WOF like is done in Europe.
As for around schools, that better be during school days and between 7am and 6pm, cause otherwise it's just bully shit. I pass way too many little country schools in the middle for nowhere around here outside thoses hours. Don't tell you're doing to protect the kids then, cause they aren't there then.

PS: if it is during school day and around times kids are to be expected to be around that piece of road then go for it. Just make sure that speedos are that accucate though.

[DEATH_INC.]

I like this rule,but I wonder why we don't have the 30k rule like in Sydney,from memory between the hours of 8-10 and 2-4 schooldays, marked with signs.

[thehollowmen]

Cheers, thanks for the heads up.
But how many people slow down to 20 km/h when they see a schoolbus on the side of the road? If someone is doing 60 they walk.

ouch
ouch
ouch

[thehollowmen]

Like you'd want to speed with all those SUVs around with drivers more focussed on the "little darlings" fighting in the back seats than the other traffic on the road.
entitlemoos

[Lou Girardin]

That's a good point about speedo error, say your speedo is reading a tad slow, the cops Stalker has a 3 km/h margin of error and bingo! $20 thanks.

[WRT]

Cheers, thanks for the heads up.
But how many people slow down to 20 km/h when they see a schoolbus on the side of the road?

Thats exactly what I was thinking while reading this thread. Watch your speed around those buses, peoples. And a tip for young players - dont try to look around the buses, cause then you cant see someone walking out until its too late. Instead look under the buses, you will spot the little pitter-patter of tiny feet long before they have chance to leap out in front of you and mess up your paint work.

But (and this is probably a great big, J-Lo sized "but(t)"), assuming that this campaign is for drivers passing a school entrance during school hours, then I'm all for it. Even though, as Lou said, I dont really see how 5kph is going to make all that much difference in the overall scheme of things.

Still, good to see someone is thinking of the children!

[Grahameeboy]

0-10km over = $30
Speed camera = no demerits
WTF do they hope to achieve

Less accidents around schools maybe?

[Oakie]

Cheers, thanks for the heads up.
But how many people slow down to 20 km/h when they see a schoolbus on the side of the road? If someone is doing 60 they walk.

ouch
ouch
ouch

Good point ... but it's probably walkies if yer doing 70km/h not 60 km/h because I think the law was '40 km/h over a posted limit and 50km/h over a temporary limit' and I guess a bus could only be classed as a temporary limit ... if it's even classed as a limit.
I do slow down but only as far as my personal safety will allow (like if there's a 20 tonne truck doing 50 km/h right behind me I'm not going to slow down to 20km/h)

Is it suspension of licence for 28 days or loss of vehicle for 28 days?

[roogazza]

Don't mind increasing awareness around schools !

But whats next ? ... minus 5 road death target and shooting motorists on sight ! that should lower the toll ? G. :scratch:

[MSTRS]

On the face of it it seems a nice politically correct tightening up. Who could complain, protecting kids and all that. Until we realise that this will also apply to someone tootling past at 2 am in the morning, with not a kiddy in sight. And vicinity is so vague that a motorist might be pinged for 5kph over "in the vicinity" of a school several streets and a kilometre away. In fact there are very few places in cities that are more than a couple of kilometres from a school or some sort or other. So is this really an underhand way of effectively reducing the 10kph tolerance universally?
Ixion is absolutely right. Same with the 'new' excessive noise exhaust law - another subjective rule that's open to 'abuse'.
In saying tho, I agree that all care should be taken around schools during the appropriate times and would be better if a temporary limit of 20/30k within those times was the law.
Another case of poor decision making from the top??

[Slingshot]

So we can't yell at em, can't smack em, now we're not even allowed to run the little shits over?


The rule says nothing about not running 'em over, just run 'em over within the 5kmph speed tolerance.
:rofl:

[Marmoot]

Didn't it say on that restraining order they gave you? :eyepoke:

bloody smart-arse....... :first:

[Grahameeboy]

The rule says nothing about not running 'em over, just run 'em over within the 5kmph speed tolerance.
:rofl:

He he...........

[R1madness]

Personaly i think its a fantastic law. Good on them for trying to do something positive. I have 3 kids and the traffic is hell around the schools. I have seen one kid killed when he stepped out in front of a car after getting off a bus. The car was doing 50k when it should have been doing 20k. Yea the kid should have looked but he was only 8 years old. I feel sorry for the driver, he had kids at the school as well. Poor bastard now he has to live with the guilt forever.
I like the school zones here in CHCH that have a 40k speed limit during the hours the schools have kids comming and leaving. Awsome.

[riffer]

As a father of four, three of whom go to school, I back this initiative.

I have seen many cars exceeding 60, and at times exceeding 70 on the main streets of our local school, even while school patrols are operating.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with most anti-speed policies, this is a good one. But they need to define how close to a school this "lack of tolerance" should operate.

The 50km/hr restriction in built-up areas is a good one.

20km/hr or 30km/hr in streets immediately adjoining schools would be a better one.

[sAsLEX]

Is it suspension of licence for 28 days or loss of vehicle for 28 days?


Fairly certain both! Fun aye

[spudchucka]

0-10km over = $30
Speed camera = no demerits
WTF do they hope to achieve
Protect the lives of our / your children?

[spudchucka]

What is the radius of "around school"?
1km? 500m? 200m?
It would be really helpful to know.

Thanks BC

Btw, the normal 10km/h tolerance still applies everywhere else, right? :scratch:
Most schools have signs on the roadside some distance before you reach the school, I'd be paying attention to those signs.

[spudchucka]

That's a good point about speedo error, say your speedo is reading a tad slow, the cops Stalker has a 3 km/h margin of error and bingo! $20 thanks.
Just slow down to 45 near schools, problem solved and everbody's happy.

[Beemer]

I'm not a fan of ankle biters so tend to avoid schools in the first place, but one thing I would like clarification on is the slowing down around school buses rule.

When driving to Palmerston North there is often a school bus in front of me, stopping to pick up kids on the side of the road in 100kph zones. No one has ever been able to tell me if this "slow to 20kph" rule only applies in 50kph zones or in every speed zone. If it does, then I'm surprised there haven't been numerous accidents when a driver sees a school bus in a situation like this and jams on their brakes to slow to 20kph while the driver of the fully-laden truck and trailer unit behind them jack-knifes and wipes out an oncoming car.

I am always aware of the possibility of children running out from behind a school bus no matter where it is, but am I risking losing my licence for travelling at 80kph over the limit in this instance?

[DMNTD]

Just slow down to 45 near schools, problem solved and everbody's happy.
Agreed but as mentioned earlier you'd be doing "well" to get up to that speed anyway. 20kms sounds better immediately around schools
As long as there's a time period on this,ie 7:30am to say 5:00pm I support it 100%. Infact the best "improvement" I've heard of. :Police:

[sAsLEX]

Just slow down to 45 near schools, problem solved and everbody's happy.

I tried to go past one of those speed indicating trailers the other day doing 40ish in my truck and it said " slow down" rather than telling me how far out my speedo was, how fuckin helpful!

[thehollowmen]

I'm a fan of slowing down near schools and bringing the road toll down but if I make a mistake like passing a bus my life ends for a year. I can't lose my license.

That is just scary :-o

I've done 40 km/h over before when I was a teenager. Only speeding ticket I've got.. obscured sign coming from a 100 into a 60 and wham I was nailed.

Honest people do make those sorts of mistakes, and the consiquences of loosing a license can can be huge. I'd like a it to be easier to have a second chance.

Then again, it would be nicer to be a bit stricter with the licensing tests and training.

[grego]

Guys , guys, don't be so paranoid, this speed restriction around schools is not implemented to get speeding bikers, nor is it done to protect schoolkids.
It is only done to catch all those speeding mothers who, while happily "multytasking "suddenly remember there are kids to be picked up and they are allready 5min late.............................................. .....

[crashe]

I tried to go past one of those speed indicating trailers the other day doing 40ish in my truck and it said " slow down" rather than telling me how far out my speedo was, how fuckin helpful!


I also went past one the other day... nought else near me (vehicles etc)
and it flashed 29km, 58km and then 39km at me all in a matter of seconds...
I hadnt even moved my hand on the throttle...I was still at the same speed.

Now how the hell am I supposed to get a correct speedo reading on my bike if the machine dont do its job properly.

Oh I was only doing the correct speed limit too.......:whistle:

So they really do need to fix up those machines.. if they are trying to encourage us to stick to the correct speed limit..

[Finn]

Like you'd want to speed with all those SUVs around with drivers more focussed on the "little darlings" fighting in the back seats than the other traffic on the road.

Yes and all scooter riders are homosexuals.

I'm thinkin of getting a sticker made that reads "KILLER SUV" and putting on my SUV just to piss cry babies like you off.

I brought an SUV to tow the boat and dirt bikes around. It's also got great boot space. The other factor I like is the level of protection you have in it. Yes, that's right MY families protection. I don't give a shit what anybody else drives and if someone does something stupid and I can't stop in time well I guess I'll be better off... which is why I drive one.

[Grahameeboy]

Yes and all scooter riders are homosexuals.

I'm thinkin of getting a sticker made that reads "KILLER SUV" and putting on my SUV just to piss cry babies like you off.

I brought an SUV to tow the boat and dirt bikes around. It's also got great boot space. The other factor I like is the level of protection you have in it. Yes, that's right MY families protection. I don't give a shit what anybody else drives and if someone does something stupid and I can't stop in time well I guess I'll be better off... which is why I drive one.

Ditti, I have an MPV.......used to put my Daughter's wheelchair in.......bad drivers are bad what ever vehicle they drive and some people have SUV's etc for a REAL reason Mr Finn.................but not sure all scooter riders are gay though cause I fancy one ( a scooter that is!!!) as a whizz around....oh dear back to my gay admission again....well if you can't beat then join them I guess...

[Finn]

In all seriousness, educating people to lowering their speed limit past schools is a good idea. It's just the way they're doing it that annoys us.

However, if this Governement was more concerned on what our kids were doing IN school than OUTSIDE then we'd all be better off. Yes a few are killed while leaving school and this is a tragedy however longer term damage is being done to our kids with PCBS while they're at school.

Am I ranting?

[Grahameeboy]

Am I ranting?

No no.....keep it up matey:rockon:

[Finn]

but not sure all scooter riders are gay though cause I fancy one ( a scooter that is!!!) as a whizz around....oh dear back to my gay admission again....well if you can't beat then join them I guess...

I was just trying to get my point across to the SUV cry baby do gooders.:woohoo:

[Grahameeboy]

I was just trying to get my point across to the SUV cry baby do gooders.:woohoo:

We know...........he he

[DMNTD]

..Am I ranting?
LOL...dunno:shifty:
I don't have a problem with SUV's at all just some of the twitty drivers that drive them like they're bullet proof and own the roads and everyone else is beneath them...no not literally either,hopefully.
The amount a skinny litte ladies I've seen that barely can see over them steering wheel that can't park them let alone drive them responsibly is what is giving SUV's a negative view

[Grahameeboy]

The amount a skinny litte ladies I've seen that barely can see over them steering wheel that can't park them let alone drive them responsibly is what is giving SUV's a negative view[/B]

They are the kids silly!!!!

[DMNTD]

They are the kids silly!!!!
Oh fark...no wonder! Explains everything... My bad:blank:
Do I still get to collect my $200?

[Grahameeboy]

Oh fark...no wonder! Explains everything... My bad:blank:
Do I still get to collect my $200?

yeah and it's the parents running out from behind buses to stop their kids driving off that we have to watch out for!!!!

[Disco Stu]

This is one speed reduction I agree with. Here (Victoria) all school area's are 40km/h between 8 - 9.30am and 2.30 - 4pm (rough times) and are all well signposted, and how often do you hear of kids getting hit by Volvo mum? Not one in the last 10 months at least. Compare that to NZ with roughly the same population, and I think you'll find this is one of the very few areas where speed reduction works.

[Lou Girardin]

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of nailing people who speed near schools and school buses. But I'll be more convinced the authorities are serious when they also hammer the ludicrous driving and parking by school mums and enforce the 20k limit passing stopped school buses. I've slowed for a school bus and was nearly rear ended by a cop FFS! Funnily enough, he did nothing when I flipped him the bird.

[Finn]

Funnily enough, he did nothing when I flipped him the bird.

And he couldn't anyway. Flipping the bird to anyone is not illegal. All he could have done is pull you over and try to find something to ping you with. Good on yah

[Swoop]

If parents got their little darlings to walk to school, there would be:
a: less traffic congestion around schools,
b: healthier kids,
c: daries [sp] getting a bigger turnover because of more kids walking past + hungrier kids???

"Welcome to my Kwik-E-Mart"
"thank you, come again".:hug:

[Lou Girardin]

If parents got their little darlings to walk to school, there would be:
a: less traffic congestion around schools,
b: healthier kids,
c: daries [sp] getting a bigger turnover because of more kids walking past + hungrier kids???

"Welcome to my Kwik-E-Mart"
"thank you, come again".:hug:

But, but, but, they might get molested, or struck by lightning, or even get tired.
poor widdle dears.
Someone should tell them they're in more danger of mum rolling her 4WD.

[Phurrball]

(snip)
I'm thinkin of getting a sticker made that reads "KILLER SUV" and putting on my SUV just to piss cry babies like you off.

I brought an SUV to tow the boat and dirt bikes around. It's also got great boot space. The other factor I like is the level of protection you have in it. Yes, that's right MY families protection. I don't give a shit what anybody else drives and if someone does something stupid and I can't stop in time well I guess I'll be better off... which is why I drive one.

Until you have to swerve to avoid something at motorway speeds.

Have a read of 'High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way' by Keith Bradsher.

It's an interesting read, based on US experience. It explodes the myth that SUVs are safer and explains the 'arms race' on the road.

[Beemer]

Are any cops out there able to answer my question? Do you have to slow to 20kph whenever passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children - no matter where it is? I'm talking about instances where the bus is stopped on the side of the road on a state highway in a 100kph zone - does the 20kph rule still apply?

[yungatart]

I work at a school, which is close to three other schools and a kindergarten. I'd be lucky to get to 30 km/h top speed on my way to work.. even if I could do 50, I probably wouldn't. I don't want to live the rest of my life feeling guilty for having hit/killed some kid.

[thehollowmen]

Are any cops out there able to answer my question? Do you have to slow to 20kph whenever passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children - no matter where it is? I'm talking about instances where the bus is stopped on the side of the road on a state highway in a 100kph zone - does the 20kph rule still apply?

I've been searching through the legistlation http://legislation.govt.nz and for the life of me can't find anything about school buses

according to LTSA (ref : http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/knowing-your-limits/speed3.html) yes, I think that it would apply in the 100 zone as it also applies to both lanes of traffic.

But yeah, even going 60, you turn a corner and pass a bus that's stopped there and you're in it deep. I'd hate to think of the fine at 100 km/h

[Lou Girardin]

Are any cops out there able to answer my question? Do you have to slow to 20kph whenever passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children - no matter where it is? I'm talking about instances where the bus is stopped on the side of the road on a state highway in a 100kph zone - does the 20kph rule still apply?

Yep, and 100 minus 20 = 80 km/hs, 40 over 'walking speed'.
So what you have to ask yourself is, do I risk a liberace and getting killed or do I obey the law.

[sunhuntin]

i tend to avoid school areas with a vengence as kids are leaving and arriving. been past the local high school bang on 3 once, and wont be doing it again...idiot teens literally looking cars and myself in the eye and stepping out anyways.

as for where the new rule starts/begins, id base it on where the first parent car is parked and where the last one is parked. thats usually when i slow down, even during school hours, when the kids would be in class [like, 10am or whatever] i like the new rule, but agree there needs to be some clarification and maybe sign posts that could be put up/taken down as required [like the fold out children crossing signs] also, it would have to cover surrounding streets. i know one of the busiest streets here often has kids walking themselves to school, and most have to cross that road. im amazed ive not seen one hit yet...these are kids from aged 5 to i think 10 or 11.

to go along with this rule, i think there should also be some student education involved. a kindy here has put in speed bumps either side of the driveway, which is great. pedestrian crossings would only be abused. the primary schools that have the "lollypops' they can push out are a great idea.

[SVrunner]

Always the worst time for kids going back to school they have forgotten all the road rules- car is bigger than me.
Only problem I found last year was older school kids crossing the road [not on crossings] & going slowly so that traffic has to stop.
What is being taught in schools?

[madboy]

1. Thanks BC for the heads up
2. I agree in principle, people just shouldn't be speeding around schools. But I will probably get busted for doing 28k past the bus.
3. Where I have a problem is in the enforcement of this. I have ZERO faith that the local plod will apply common sense to this. ZERO faith. I got read the riot act by the fuzz many moons ago for 95k+ past a school. Wanted to charge me with dangerous driving. Lectured me about the pedestrian crossing right outside the school, the dangers of speeding near schools, what if a kid stepped out?? But, umm, duh, it was after midnight on a Saturday night?
4. Saslex - those speed sign things are cool. I pass one each day on the way to work on a mway offramp into a sharp left where the limit drops from 100 to 50. It gives you your speed up to 55 or 59 I think, then it says slow down, but if you're going much faster it doesn't say anything at all. Guess what my goal is each morning?
5. Lou, your comment re parking around schools etc. I drop my daughter at school each morning and the amount of f***wit driving I see is scary. But it's not usually speed, it's inattention. But the parking situation is nuts. People WILL park really close to the crossing making viewing a problem, but it's not too bad because the crossing is controlled by lollipops anyway. And it's a private school so it's SUV city (note, I'm pointing out fact, not critisicing SUV owners, but I would also like to point out the fact about higher chances of being INVOLVED in an accident in the first place).

[snuffles]

yet another excuse for revenue collection to try and fix a fundamental issue with kiwi drivers, suppose it makes for even more good police public relations.

[N4CR]

Do you have to slow to 20kph whenever passing a school bus stopped to pick up or drop off children - no matter where it is? I'm talking about instances where the bus is stopped on the side of the road on a state highway in a 100kph zone - does the 20kph rule still apply?

I have a slight variation on this question. On one of my commuting routes during school time there is regularly a bus parked outside the entire day, empty and no kids around etc. Do you have to slow for that as there is clearly no difference between that and a normal bus apart from the fact that it is displaying 'school' signs?

[sAsLEX]

But, but, but, they might get molested, or struck by lightning, or even get tired.
poor widdle dears.


Dont laugh, the bloody ARC is banning some kind of Palm tree cause stupid arse children keep injuring themselves on the barbs. What kind of leftist nanny state is this turning in to!

[sAsLEX]

I have a slight variation on this question. On one of my commuting routes during school time there is regularly a bus parked outside the entire day, empty and no kids around etc. Do you have to slow for that as there is clearly no difference between that and a normal bus apart from the fact that it is displaying 'school' signs?

the speed limit past a bus is 20 during the act of dropping/picking up children, including as it pulls over and takes off again.

So unless kiddies where getting on and off the whole day the posted 50 limit should stand.

[Lou Girardin]

They are required to remove the school signs when not actually on a school run.

[VFR400R]

I like this rule,but I wonder why we don't have the 30k rule like in Sydney,from memory between the hours of 8-10 and 2-4 schooldays, marked with signs.

In Melbourne its 40km/h (given that most schools are on the normal road speed of 60km/h) same rule on time applies (I think it might be 8-9 and 3-4, but that depends if secondary school or not). In Queensland the speed is 20km/h around a school during open and close of school (well it used to be last time I was there 3 years ago)

[Grahameeboy]

They are required to remove the school signs when not actually on a school run.

Picky......................

[HenryDorsetCase]

thanks for that. I go past four schools on my way to work... one of each... pre school, primary intermediate and secondary.

the issue isnt the kids so much as the brain dead fuckwits in their breeder boxes (SUV's and Previas.....) who, having dispensed with "the most precious cargo in the world" then blindly pull out of and into traffic, or park in bus stops or double park (Ive seem them double parked on BOTH sides of a narrow road, no shit completely blocking the road) without a thought for anyone. Its the most dangerous thing I do in my life I reckon.

[slopster]

Yeah I'm all for slowing traffic around schools and all that but this is not the way to do it. Something like increasing the fines or demerits (around schools) would work but cutting the tolerance to 5kmh means that people will spend so much time watching the speedo that the wont see the kid run out in front of them. Keeping within 5 kmh of the limit without constantly looking t the speedo is near impossible.

[dawnrazor]

When I read this thread initially I thought fair enough, I might not like kids but it seems an awful shame to bump them off and the parents seem to get upset, so anything that stops this happening has got to be a good thing.

HOWEVER, on my way home I began to think about it a bit more laterially and two things occoured to me.

1. In general if its an unwritten rule that the police will turn a blind eye to speeding infringements of up to 10k's over the posted speed limit, what does this say about the polices opinion of the law. To me it says the speed limits are rubbish and unrealistic, and as an enforcer of the law I will bend it to suit my own interpertation of the law. I mean I don't necessarily agree with a lot of speed limits, but in general the ones around town are there for good reason. If I'm in a 30k zone I stick to 30k, thats the law, but here the cops are saying, don't bother about too much your fine up to 40k, just don't let the boss see ya!
Surely the law is the law, its like saying leaning through an open window and stealing a TV isn't burgulary because you never entered the house completely.

2. As I mentioned I'm all for the reduction of road deaths especially the little ones, so keeping to 5k addition to the speed limit around schools is smart, but what about hospitals and nursing homes and churches and concert venues and well anywhere else, its ok to speed 10k over. That sort of suggests that the lives of children are worth more then everyone else, so who gave the cops the right to determine that.

I know I'm taking an extreme view of this but all the same, wouldn't it be easier if they just made more speed zone increments, 35k here 40k there etc, and then stated clearly that 1k over the limit is breaking the law. no ambiguity no problem. while they are at it pop the motorway limits up to 110k like most countries.

[spudchucka]

If parents got their little darlings to walk to school, there would be:
a: less traffic congestion around schools,
b: healthier kids,
c: daries [sp] getting a bigger turnover because of more kids walking past + hungrier kids???
d: more perverts hanging around schools because there are more opportunities for them.

[spudchucka]

yet another excuse for revenue collection to try and fix a fundamental issue with kiwi drivers, suppose it makes for even more good police public relations.
Up to 10kph over the speed limit = $30.00 fine.

Minus $70.00 - $80.00 administration costs for each ticket (more if it is defended) = not a lot of $$$$ extra for the Govt.

[spudchucka]

I have a slight variation on this question. On one of my commuting routes during school time there is regularly a bus parked outside the entire day, empty and no kids around etc. Do you have to slow for that as there is clearly no difference between that and a normal bus apart from the fact that it is displaying 'school' signs?
As far as I'm aware the 20kph rule only applies when the are picking up or dropping off.

[spudchucka]

When I read this thread initially I thought fair enough, I might not like kids but it seems an awful shame to bump them off and the parents seem to get upset, so anything that stops this happening has got to be a good thing.

HOWEVER, on my way home I began to think about it a bit more laterially and two things occoured to me.

1. In general if its an unwritten rule that the police will turn a blind eye to speeding infringements of up to 10k's over the posted speed limit, what does this say about the polices opinion of the law. To me it says the speed limits are rubbish and unrealistic, and as an enforcer of the law I will bend it to suit my own interpertation of the law. I mean I don't necessarily agree with a lot of speed limits, but in general the ones around town are there for good reason. If I'm in a 30k zone I stick to 30k, thats the law, but here the cops are saying, don't bother about too much your fine up to 40k, just don't let the boss see ya!
Surely the law is the law, its like saying leaning through an open window and stealing a TV isn't burgulary because you never entered the house completely.

2. As I mentioned I'm all for the reduction of road deaths especially the little ones, so keeping to 5k addition to the speed limit around schools is smart, but what about hospitals and nursing homes and churches and concert venues and well anywhere else, its ok to speed 10k over. That sort of suggests that the lives of children are worth more then everyone else, so who gave the cops the right to determine that.

I know I'm taking an extreme view of this but all the same, wouldn't it be easier if they just made more speed zone increments, 35k here 40k there etc, and then stated clearly that 1k over the limit is breaking the law. no ambiguity no problem. while they are at it pop the motorway limits up to 110k like most countries.

1: The 10kph tolerance is only there in the interests of reasonableness and fairness in enforcement. Tyres wear, speedometers lose accuracy with age etc etc, which means that 50 kph on your speedo could actually be 59 on the road and you the driver would be none the wiser. Also speed has a way of creeping up on you when you are rolling downhill. These are the reasons why there is a tolerance, however, you may still find yourself getting a ticket for less than 10kph over if the circumstances warrant it.

2: All the places you mention deserve equal enforcement of speed limits but as the original poster said this is apparently a campaign to start when school returns for the year. It in no way suggests that one section of society is favoured above another.

BTW, leaning through an open window and stealing a TV is still burglary.

[Lou Girardin]

d: more perverts hanging around schools because there are more opportunities for them.

C'mon Spud. That's what you guys are for. Look at it as an ongoing sting operation.

[dawnrazor]

1: The 10kph tolerance is only there in the interests of reasonableness and fairness in enforcement. Tyres wear, speedometers lose accuracy with age etc etc, which means that 50 kph on your speedo could actually be 59 on the road and you the driver would be none the wiser. Also speed has a way of creeping up on you when you are rolling downhill. These are the reasons why there is a tolerance, however, you may still find yourself getting a ticket for less than 10kph over if the circumstances warrant it.

2: All the places you mention deserve equal enforcement of speed limits but as the original poster said this is apparently a campaign to start when school returns for the year. It in no way suggests that one section of society is favoured above another.

BTW, leaning through an open window and stealing a TV is still burglary.

As I said I took and extreme view of this and I agree with the speedo thing, but I think its actually the case that most speedos are about 10% off the actual speed, so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.
And I know speed creeps up on you in a car especially, but on a bike I can tell pretty acurately what speed I'm doing around town (albeit the indicated speed) from wind noise, engine noise and other external indications. In fact to keep myself amused sometimes play the guessing game and most times I'm 1 or 2 k off my prediction, I'm no good at it over 60k though, but it serves my ends around the city.

Well if one section of society isn't favoured over another, why aren't all speed limits subjected to the same rules? We have all seen the ads on TV telling us how 5k's difference in speed makes a huge difference in stopping difference, so presumably it also makes a huge difference in the chances of hitting a pedestrian and them surviving or not. I'm not being pedantic here, but I'm getting mixed messages.

Surely you would be better off denying the existance of a limitied speed infringement amnesty, then having everyone going about doing 40k in a 30 etc. Regardless of the sentament, most people see speed limits as targets, and will drive around at the zenith of the limit whenever possible, if I was going to be hit by a car in a 30k zone I know I'd prefer it to be doing 30k's not 40k.

I don't know it all seems alittle inconsistent, no offence.

[sAsLEX]

so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.


well my indicated 40 is above the threashold for the Speed Indication trailers they have that shows you speed (in a 50 zone) , guessing its around 60 odd

[spudchucka]

As I said I took and extreme view of this and I agree with the speedo thing, but I think its actually the case that most speedos are about 10% off the actual speed, so 50k indicated is more likely to be 45k.
And I know speed creeps up on you in a car especially, but on a bike I can tell pretty acurately what speed I'm doing around town (albeit the indicated speed) from wind noise, engine noise and other external indications. In fact to keep myself amused sometimes play the guessing game and most times I'm 1 or 2 k off my prediction, I'm no good at it over 60k though, but it serves my ends around the city.

Well if one section of society isn't favoured over another, why aren't all speed limits subjected to the same rules? We have all seen the ads on TV telling us how 5k's difference in speed makes a huge difference in stopping difference, so presumably it also makes a huge difference in the chances of hitting a pedestrian and them surviving or not. I'm not being pedantic here, but I'm getting mixed messages.

Surely you would be better off denying the existance of a limitied speed infringement amnesty, then having everyone going about doing 40k in a 30 etc. Regardless of the sentament, most people see speed limits as targets, and will drive around at the zenith of the limit whenever possible, if I was going to be hit by a car in a 30k zone I know I'd prefer it to be doing 30k's not 40k.

I don't know it all seems alittle inconsistent, no offence.

No offence taken. Don't take offence yourself but I almost think that you are going out of your way to look for possible inconsistencies. Schools are obviously a high risk environment because of the large number of small people who have very limited road sense. Most people seem think it is a good thing to target schools, so do I, but I'd also be happy for hospitals and old folks homes to receive the same attention. However, this campaign is obviously being timed to coincide with the return to school and to raise awareness at that time. Once the period of the campaign has passed I would hope that most cops would continue policing around schools in the same fashion.

I don't see that as inconsistent or favouring a certain section of society, I simply see it as a common sense approach to road safety.

[dawnrazor]

No offence taken. Don't take offence yourself but I almost think that you are going out of your way to look for possible inconsistencies. Schools are obviously a high risk environment because of the large number of small people who have very limited road sense. Most people seem think it is a good thing to target schools, so do I, but I'd also be happy for hospitals and old folks homes to receive the same attention. However, this campaign is obviously being timed to coincide with the return to school and to raise awareness at that time. Once the period of the campaign has passed I would hope that most cops would continue policing around schools in the same fashion.

I don't see that as inconsistent or favouring a certain section of society, I simply see it as a common sense approach to road safety.

Okay I think what I find inconsistant about this rule is this.

Right according to your unofficial amnesty on speed infringements you might be allowed to do the following speeds in the following zones

30K in a 20K Zone
40K in a 30K Zone
50K in a 40K Zone
60K in a 50K Zone
70K in a 60K Zone
80K in a 70K Zone
90K in a 80K Zone
100K in a 90K Zone
110K in a 100K Zone

Right or wrong?

If this is the case then this means


30K in a 20K Zone is a 50% increase on the indicated limit
40K in a 30K Zone is a 33% increase on the indicated limit
50K in a 40K Zone is a 25% increase on the indicated limit
60K in a 50K Zone is a 20% increase on the indicated limit
70K in a 60K Zone is a 16% increase on the indicated limit
80K in a 70K Zone is a 14% increase on the indicated limit
90K in a 80K Zone is a 12.5% increase on the indicated limit
100K in a 90K Zone is a 11% increase on the indicated limit
110K in a 100K Zone is a 10% increase on the indicated limit

That looks a little inconsistant to me, its okay to brake the speed limit by 50-33% at slower speeds, but don't go over 10% over at the high end.

As I said before I understand the need for this gray area in the law, and that it can't be as black and white as I have belaboured, but tell why you don't just make it a 10% infringement increase for ever limit like ever other sensible country in the world and remove the ambiguity.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but at least that makes a certain degree of logic, and would remove the need for special speed restriction weeks. I'm pretty sure people coul handle the maths.

[TLDV8]

I would have though any time driving in the city or in built up area's,anything over 55 kmh is dodgy not from a legal but a moral point,no maths involved...The chance of being able to do the posted speed limit around a school is fairly remote,obviously when the school is being let out...... passing a bus with kids around at anything but dead slow in the city is common sense,no maths again....Some things do not have to be debated... Logic should prevail.:slap:.. Try driving at the speed limit in any town centre in South Auckland,anything over 40 kmh is out of the question,just because you can doesn't mean you should...Where did all these goofy percentages come from???... Do the speed limit or close to it in built up area's and have a nice day?.... risk it a bit out in the wop's,take your chances?....... I should have started spouting some percentages like Einstein last time i got nicked,if i had i probably would have got the ticket and a bitch slap for my trouble.

[Marmoot]

Okay I think wha*snip*

As I said before I understand the need for this gray area in the law, and that it can't be as black and white as I have belaboured, but tell why you don't just make it a 10% infringement increase for ever limit like ever other sensible country in the world and remove the ambiguity.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but at least that makes a certain degree of logic, and would remove the need for special speed restriction weeks. I'm pretty sure people coul handle the maths.

because in here we operate with 10 KPH tolerance, not 10 % tolerance.
That is not ambiguous. It is much easier to read than having to spot the 10% on that puny speedometers. And it gives us more leeway above the speed limit in the events of speedo-inattentiveness

And you'd better pray damn well it does not get cut to 10% coz I is sure there has been talks around.

Be careful on what you wish for - WishMaster 3

[N4CR]

Dawnrazor - the reason for that is simple. When it comes to stopping the vehicle, a doubling in speed is 4x the energy to dissipate through your brakes/wheels. At a higher speed eg 150kmh, you have 4x the energy to stop/dissipate than compared to travelling at 75kmh. Hence why the 10kmh 'let it slip most of the time' philosophy is in place.

30 in a 20 isn't much of a difference or load on braking systems/crash systems, mabey one to half a metre or so stopping distance extra. A pedestrian might end up just getting knocked on their arse but not much else.

[JMemonic]

The 10km/hr tolerance still applies elsewhere but if you are driving less than 10km/hr over the limit in circumstances that would warrant a ticket, there is nothing to stop a cop issuing one.

BC.

Ok this is confusing I was of the understanding that there was a 10 percent tolerence on either side (which lets face it we take to mean the higher side) to allow for the fact analog meters are not that accurate and even digital can be affected by minor changes in tyre profile (this includes wear), anyhow the short of this is 55 in a 50 zone is ok but 56 is an offence likewise 110 in a 100 zone is ok but 111 is an offence, of course this is dependent on conditions etc.

BC I defer to your knowledge to correct or confirm this thought.

[Marmoot]

10 kph tolerance. It's in the road code and in LTSA policies.

10% tolerance is in UK, and US. Which is stupid....since at 30kmh limit you only have 3kph leeway. Even a thick speedometer needle can get you a ticket.

[dawnrazor]

because in here we operate with 10 KPH tolerance, not 10 % tolerance.
That is not ambiguous. It is much easier to read than having to spot the 10% on that puny speedometers. And it gives us more leeway above the speed limit in the events of speedo-inattentiveness

And you'd better pray damn well it does not get cut to 10% coz I is sure there has been talks around.

Be careful on what you wish for - WishMaster 3

if you read an earlier post here you'll see I am not a speed nazi, I am simply debating a point, to which I have not recieved a satifactory answer yet.

[dawnrazor]

[QUOTE=tristank
30 in a 20 isn't much of a difference or load on braking systems/crash systems, mabey one to half a metre or so stopping distance extra. A pedestrian might end up just getting knocked on their arse but not much else.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry thats cold comfort, "there you go me old mum go off an play in the street you'll only get knocked on your arse!"

I managed to write a bike off at less then 20mph, do 5000 pounds worth of damage to a car and flinging myself 20 feet through the air almost braking my back, bit more serious then a "knock on the arse"

[dawnrazor]

I would have though any time driving in the city or in built up area's,anything over 55 kmh is dodgy not from a legal but a moral point,no maths involved...The chance of being able to do the posted speed limit around a school is fairly remote,obviously when the school is being let out...... passing a bus with kids around at anything but dead slow in the city is common sense,no maths again....Some things do not have to be debated... Logic should prevail.:slap:.. Try driving at the speed limit in any town centre in South Auckland,anything over 40 kmh is out of the question,just because you can doesn't mean you should...Where did all these goofy percentages come from???... Do the speed limit or close to it in built up area's and have a nice day?.... risk it a bit out in the wop's,take your chances?....... I should have started spouting some percentages like Einstein last time i got nicked,if i had i probably would have got the ticket and a bitch slap for my trouble.

Agree with you 100%

[Lou Girardin]

So, why can you fail a driving test for exceeding the limit by 5 km/h, but not get a ticket?
LTNZ logic?
Or, why is 141 km/h on a wide deserted motorway as dangerous as 91 km/h on a suburban street?
Wouldn't a blanket "twice the speed limit" have sufficed?
For the answer to these questions and more, write to your local MP.

[FROSTY]

Personally This is one case where I say a ZERO tolerance for speeding is acceptable-50km/h or less during school hours -8.30-4.00pm
Specificly within 150m of school crossings and the actual school gates

[Lou Girardin]

Personally This is one case where I say a ZERO tolerance for speeding is acceptable-50km/h or less during school hours -8.30-4.00pm
Specificly within 150m of school crossings and the actual school gates

Fine. How accurate is your speedo?

[dawnrazor]

Fine. How accurate is your speedo?

Ah speed time momentum, its all relative isn't it

just quote quantum theory if you get pulled over and blind them with science

[Marmoot]

if you read an earlier post here you'll see I am not a speed nazi, I am simply debating a point, to which I have not recieved a satifactory answer yet.

debating the cause of a legistlation in a forum is like debating on why the chicken cross the road: You may not agree with it but you cannot prevent it from happenning.

:violin:

[riffer]

Fine. How accurate is your speedo?

Solve the problem. Do 40.

Open road speed is for the open road.

Around schools it should be 30.

Ride at a ridiculous speed around my kids school and I'll be the first to knock you on your arse.

This is turning into a ridiculous discussion.

[Ixion]

Personally This is one case where I say a ZERO tolerance for speeding is acceptable-50km/h or less during school hours -8.30-4.00pm
Specificly within 150m of school crossings and the actual school gates


So, riding along a main road , in an area I don't know well. Go past a side road. Unbeknownst to me, 120 m down that side road, round a bend , are the gates of a school. How do I know it's there ? When Mr Plod stops me and tickets me for riding at 52kph "within 150m of the gates of a school". If you're going to do that you need to establish school zones. Signed in some way , on all surrounding roads. And I'd bet you those school zones end up being pretty much all of the 50 kph areas.

What about back gates? When I was at school only a very small percentage of kids went in the big "official" front gates.

And does your 8:30 - 4pm include school holidays ? Do you include child care centres? Kindergartens ? What about Sunday schools ? This amateur legislation is always more tricky than it seems

[sunhuntin]

to follow from ixions...does this also include country schools?

must admit....last time i went to palmy, i missed a turn off to go down past the harley dealer and found myself stuck in parental traffic picking up school kids. quite scary when you dont know they are there!

edit: some schools start at 8.30am...the high school i went to did, which meant kids on the roads anywhere between 7am and 9am. maybe make the hours 7-8am till 5-6pm, to allow for detentions!

[Lou Girardin]

This is turning into a ridiculous discussion.

No it isn't unless you start personalising it. I'm pointing out that zero tolerance for anything can bite unintended people on the arse. A perfect example are bus and taxi drivers losing their licences for offences that happened 30 or 40 years ago. The lawmakers never thought of that when they changed the law. They wouldn't think of the repercusions of zero tolerance for speeding either.
If you want to protect your kids, lobby for a 30 or 40 km/h limit near their schools.

[spudchucka]

Okay I think what I find inconsistant about this rule is this.

Right according to your unofficial amnesty on speed infringements you might be allowed to do the following speeds in the following zones

30K in a 20K Zone
40K in a 30K Zone
50K in a 40K Zone
60K in a 50K Zone
70K in a 60K Zone
80K in a 70K Zone
90K in a 80K Zone
100K in a 90K Zone
110K in a 100K Zone

Right or wrong?

If this is the case then this means


30K in a 20K Zone is a 50% increase on the indicated limit
40K in a 30K Zone is a 33% increase on the indicated limit
50K in a 40K Zone is a 25% increase on the indicated limit
60K in a 50K Zone is a 20% increase on the indicated limit
70K in a 60K Zone is a 16% increase on the indicated limit
80K in a 70K Zone is a 14% increase on the indicated limit
90K in a 80K Zone is a 12.5% increase on the indicated limit
100K in a 90K Zone is a 11% increase on the indicated limit
110K in a 100K Zone is a 10% increase on the indicated limit

That looks a little inconsistant to me, its okay to brake the speed limit by 50-33% at slower speeds, but don't go over 10% over at the high end.

As I said before I understand the need for this gray area in the law, and that it can't be as black and white as I have belaboured, but tell why you don't just make it a 10% infringement increase for ever limit like ever other sensible country in the world and remove the ambiguity.

I'm playing devils advocate here, but at least that makes a certain degree of logic, and would remove the need for special speed restriction weeks. I'm pretty sure people coul handle the maths.
The 10kph tolerance is simply a pragmatic, common sense approach to enforcing the speed limit in a reasonable fashion that more or less all people can understand. I really don't see what the problem is.

[Lou Girardin]

The 10kph tolerance is simply a pragmatic, common sense approach to enforcing the speed limit in a reasonable fashion that more or less all people can understand. I really don't see what the problem is.

That's probably true in a dumbed down society, with an NCEA standard of education.
Imagine how easy it would be for you if people tried to calculate a 10% tolerance, they'd be whistling past at 30 or 40 k's over in blissful ignorance.

[FROSTY]

Fine. How accurate is your speedo?
Probably none too accurate-so Id be riding at 40-45 to be sure
Also the argument about what if its midnight etc--common sense says 8.30-4.00pm monday to friday.
Any other time or place no worries.

[dawnrazor]

The 10kph tolerance is simply a pragmatic, common sense approach to enforcing the speed limit in a reasonable fashion that more or less all people can understand. I really don't see what the problem is.

So the 10kph tolerence is in place for the ease of enforcing the law from the enforcers point of view and not the potential offenders protection.

From now on I'm going to ride everywhere at 10Kph under the posted limit......and I'll probably get done for lack of progress
:weird:

[Pixie]

On the face of it it seems a nice politically correct tightening up. Who could complain, protecting kids and all that. Until we realise that this will also apply to someone tootling past at 2 am in the morning, with not a kiddy in sight. And vicinity is so vague that a motorist might be pinged for 5kph over "in the vicinity" of a school several streets and a kilometre away. In fact there are very few places in cities that are more than a couple of kilometres from a school or some sort or other. So is this really an underhand way of effectively reducing the 10kph tolerance universally?
Of course this will resolve the problem of so many accidents occuring around schools at the moment.:scratch: :confused:

What about banning SUV's in families with children,as there has been several instances of them backing over kids.

Run them over I say
...little bastards

[Pixie]

And he couldn't anyway. Flipping the bird to anyone is not illegal. All he could have done is pull you over and try to find something to ping you with. Good on yah
Wrong. Fred Gassit was charged with "Prolonged fingers giving"

[Pixie]

5. Lou, your comment re parking around schools etc. I drop my daughter at school each morning and the amount of f***wit driving I see is scary. But it's not usually speed, it's inattention..
Speeding is dangerous.
Everything else you've listed is safe
-LTNZ

[Pixie]

No offence taken. Don't take offence yourself but I almost think that you are going out of your way to look for possible inconsistencies. Schools are obviously a high risk environment because of the large number of small people who have very limited road sense. Most people seem think it is a good thing to target schools, so do I, but I'd also be happy for hospitals and old folks homes to receive the same attention. However, this campaign is obviously being timed to coincide with the return to school and to raise awareness at that time. Once the period of the campaign has passed I would hope that most cops would continue policing around schools in the same fashion.

I don't see that as inconsistent or favouring a certain section of society, I simply see it as a common sense approach to road safety.
In the end,the difference to a five year old being hit by a Pajero at 55 kmh or 60 kmh.
Would be similar to a rabbit being shot by a subsonic .22 or a supersonic .22
I don't think the rabbit or the five year old would have a firm preference

[Da Bird]

Quick update on "vicinity". The 5km/hr tolerance will be enforced within 250 metres of a school boundary. As I said before, this will include speed cameras at selected locations.

A publicity "Back to School" campaign will start around 7 February - but you heard it here first!

The 5km/hr tolerance policy around schools will be year round, not just the first couple of weeks.

BC.

[Gremlin]

I don't have a problem with that sort of law, and 250m is nothing. Going to my mum's school one afternoon to check something, I saw 3 kids in uniform. Biggest croses, plenty of time, medium crosses still time, little one doesn't look and wants to join others, and crosses right in front of my bike.

Luckily I was first, not a car and had already slowed, expecting it to happen. If I hadn't noticed, I would have plowed right into her, she never looked. This is despite the schools trying to teach the kids about road danger. Mum has had several kids getting hit by cars... still, they can't get the message through.

This was probably more than 1k from school (unless it was another school, no idea - they're all little kids to me). Little kids have no idea about traffic, and only see the people they want to get to.

[RiderInBlack]

The 5km/hr tolerance policy around schools will be year round, not just the first couple of weeks.So does that counts Public holidays, weekends, school holidays and Midnight? If so it's a bunch of arse:shake: especial around Country Schools out in the wop-wops.

PS: Anyone have any stats that suggust that this law change is even needed? Eg. how many road deaths there are around schools and at what speeds.

[dawnrazor]

On my into work this morning (a saturday @ 06:30, this will be of relevence later) I had the chance to tail a cop car from parnell through newmarket where I left them as they turned up towards remuera back to the cop shop maybe, there was no flashing lights or sirens.

Either way I thought I'd try the 10K tolerence rule, its a 50K zone all the way as far as I know, well as I did an indicated near 60K (I'm not a complete fool) I watched as the squad car pulled away from me into the horizon and away, through two sets of red lights without yielding, round a roundabout without indicating and then I lost them as they turned up to remuera, at this stage I was tickling the decency of 60K and slowed down, and suddenly felt very hungary and an overpowering desire for donuts.

And as Forrest Gump would say "Thats all I have to say about that"

[Monsterbishi]

I'm all for keeping the speeds down in the areas where it counts the most, but setting the tolerance at the minimum variance rate of the average speedometer is erring less on the side of caution, and more on the side of revenue-gathering, surely it would be more sensible to set the speed limit 10kph lower in school areas and be done with it.

This gives motorists a workable spread to keep their speed acceptable, whilst ensuring the children are safer than they will be on this new rule that is coming out, without creating a cash injection for the government.

Edit: Especially since you are now going to have people spending more time staring at their speedos that what is actually in front of them.

I don't know about the rest of the Country, but around many of the schools down here in Christchurch, there are illuminated "School Zone" signs that lower the speed limit during Arrival/Departure times, they work quite well too, with minimum congestion even on a rain day when all the SUV's are out to pickup the kiddies.

[Da Bird]

So does that counts Public holidays, weekends, school holidays and Midnight? If so it's a bunch of arse:shake: especial around Country Schools out in the wop-wops.

PS: Anyone have any stats that suggust that this law change is even needed? Eg. how many road deaths there are around schools and at what speeds.

No, just Monday to Friday, primarily between 0730 - 0900 and 1500 - 1630.

Did see some stats yesterday at work. Will print them off and bring them home tonight.

[RiderInBlack]

No, just Monday to Friday, primarily between 0730 - 0900 and 1500 - 1630.

Did see some stats yesterday at work. Will print them off and bring them home tonight.Thanks for that BC:2thumbsup Would agree with those hours.
Thanks Speed Med. Have been looking at some stats on the net and they do seem to back-up this law change around school hours.

At the end of the day even if we fenced off roads from pedestrians, we would still get some Ped/road accidents. Do we slow down traffic because of this? Try stopping a train for hit some-one not old enough that has got on to the track. Would not better to supervision of children help more? I often think of this in relation to fencing pools, when there are so many other places for children to drown. Educate and supervise the fu*ken kids. Don't leave them unattended if they are going to do stupid shit. Why don't we make that a "Law" instead.
Here we are madam, a ticket for not supervising an under 10 for more than an hour.

Flame away guys, but stop a thank about what we are doing as well. A car could still kill a child at 5kph. Considering a few drivers can not even see a bike, what chance does a under 10 have? Kids have been hurt by vehicles backing up. Will this law really make the difference you desire?

[Scouse]

Now that you are all getting used to the 41km/hr plus licence suspension law, I thought I would just mention that in a couple of weeks when school goes back, there will be a campaign on speed near schools. The speed tolerance before ticket issuing will be 5km/hr and speed cameras will be involved. It is nationwide as far as I know so watch your speed around schools.

The 5km/hr tolerance around schools sounds like a permanent thing as far as I can tell.

BC.

this has been going on for over a year on Richardson road in Mt Roskill out side the two Schools I see the red Mitsy L300 camera van every second Monday on my way to work

[FROSTY]

Monsterbishi--bloody good idea--just set the speed limit around schools during school hours at 40km/h--
Ohh and yep the lovcdal councils have blitzes on the idiot cagers double parking to pick up the kids -MY ex got a ticket for just that

[ducatilover]

today me and the old man learnt: 40kmh over the limit is now a loss of lisence on the spot......

you see we went to masterton on the trusty fj1200 at a rather motivating cruise speed..... and the speedo reads slow so 110k is about 130ish....so we cruise along at an indicated 120 and pass many a cage, also saw alot of bikers out, and on our way home he really opens her up and pulls an indicated *** to pass a long line of cars [fuck fjs can move rather well] and as we were slowing down a highway patrol car appeared up the other end of the straight and we kinda took a side road.... and got back to the main road and another car that had been called out stopped us..... clocked at 143km/h.... 10km from home so the kind bugger let us ride home and then took the lisence....$510 fine and 28 days of being driven to work poor old man:thud:

[JWALKER]

today me and the old man learnt: 40kmh over the limit is now a loss of lisence on the spot......

you see we went to masterton on the trusty fj1200 at a rather motivating cruise speed..... and the speedo reads slow so 110k is about 130ish....so we cruise along at an indicated 120 and pass many a cage, also saw alot of bikers out, and on our way home he really opens her up and pulls an indicated *** to pass a long line of cars [fuck fjs can move rather well] and as we were slowing down a highway patrol car appeared up the other end of the straight and we kinda took a side road.... and got back to the main road and another car that had been called out stopped us..... clocked at 143km/h.... 10km from home so the kind bugger let us ride home and then took the lisence....$510 fine and 28 days of being driven to work poor old man:thud:

man, that really sucks . . i hate to hear that. still don't agree with the new law, but what can ya do about ie eh?

[madboy]

today me and the old man learnt: 40kmh over the limit is now a loss of lisence on the spot......Bugger. I woulda been asking some really pointed questions about how they could have identified you from that distance. Although my personal preference would have been to drive right past him and absolutely hammer it the moment the lights came on... but I guess that's not always an option, particularly when 2-up.

[ducatilover]

Bugger. I woulda been asking some really pointed questions about how they could have identified you from that distance. Although my personal preference would have been to drive right past him and absolutely hammer it the moment the lights came on... but I guess that's not always an option, particularly when 2-up.
he called out a road block [apparently it was one pig across the road] and another pig to go down a different road incase we went down it.....

i thought he would nail it, even still the cop didnt catch up for about 5 or 6k:baby:

[madboy]

Bugger. A "mate" knew of this pursuit where the cop was sitting on the mway onramp waiting for the bike, bike is hammering it up the mway toward the traffic lights (good road planning), sees cars stopped for red light, sees cop on side road. Bike had numberplate attached. If bike slowed to go between cars at lights chances are the cop would be able to read the plate. If bike turned off mway, bike would have to slow down for the corner, and chances are cop could read plate.

Bike's sitting there in outside lane thinking how much the reaming is gonna hurt when they're caught but also considering the odds of making it between a few parked cars at 200k+ and living to tell... Lights go green. Bike still 200m back from lights. Cop pulls out and blocks the traffic, parking in the middle of the lanes meaning bike can't split.

Bike turns off mway. And since the cop now had a completely obscured view of the bike (and never even saw the back of it)... another successful day out riding.

Just goes to show, the adrenaline of a pursuit works both ways. Sometimes the cops make the dumbest calls too.

[yungatart]

Personally I am glad that this is being done- about time in my opinion. Just ask any 10-11 yr old who has done Road Patrol at school, how many times have they had a motorist drive through the "STOP" signs as these kids hold them out. All of my kids have done Road Patrol and all have them have the stories to tell. I'd be happy if they made it 30 kph.

[Lou Girardin]

Personally I am glad that this is being done- about time in my opinion. Just ask any 10-11 yr old who has done Road Patrol at school, how many times have they had a motorist drive through the "STOP" signs as these kids hold them out. All of my kids have done Road Patrol and all have them have the stories to tell. I'd be happy if they made it 30 kph.

How's the 5 km/h tolerance going to help?
Perhaps cops at the crossing would be more effective than one under a bush with a laser gun 250 metres away.

[SVrunner]

Just came across police sppeed screen which shows what speed you are going.
Board showed 55km my speedo showed 60km.
so from what has been said before if I do 120 on speedo then only really doing110km.

[scumdog]

today me and the old man learnt: 40kmh over the limit is now a loss of lisence on the spot......

you see we went to masterton on the trusty fj1200 at a rather motivating cruise speed..... and the speedo reads slow so 110k is about 130ish....so we cruise along at an indicated 120 and pass many a cage, also saw alot of bikers out, and on our way home he really opens her up and pulls an indicated *** to pass a long line of cars [fuck fjs can move rather well] and as we were slowing down a highway patrol car appeared up the other end of the straight and we kinda took a side road.... and got back to the main road and another car that had been called out stopped us..... clocked at 143km/h.... 10km from home so the kind bugger let us ride home and then took the lisence....$510 fine and 28 days of being driven to work poor old man:thud:

Hmmmm, that was a bit of bad judgement....:crazy:

[pyrocam]

attached the article from todays paper.
be carefull!

[Monsterbishi]

I find it a laugh when the council finds a $30k set of lights 'prohibitive' when it's a one-off expense, with minimal maintenance costs that will save lives.

Especially when they decide to spend that much relocating a old tree!

[Korea]

'loody heck! $30k for a set of signs??? Oh, C'mon~ that's someone's salary for a year right there...

[MikeL]

I would have though any time driving in the city or in built up area's,anything over 55 kmh is dodgy not from a legal but a moral point,no maths involved...

Is it? I got a ticket for 11 km/hr over while riding along Manukau Rd just past Greenwoods corner at 10 p.m, with no more than half a dozen vehicles on the road at the time, not a single pedestrian anywhere, in fine weather and clear visibility. Is this morally equivalent to riding at the same speed down Queen St at 8:30 a.m. in the pouring rain?
(To her credit the policewoman spared me a moral lecture...)

As regards the campaign to reduce speeds around schools, I have no problem with the principle. In practical terms in the areas that I ride in regularly the traffic density at those times would normally prevent any excess speed. However Ixion raises some issues that need further clarification. Unfortunately I have no faith in either the LTSA and the lawmakers to enact well thought-out legislation, or the police to ensure that in the enforcement of the regulations justice and fair play are not sacrificed to the demands of achieving a numerical target...

Just as an afterthought... What is the correlation, in the last couple of years, between the number of tickets written out and the number of deaths/injuries/accidents, compared to, say 10 years ago?

[Marmoot]

if the 5kph tolerance drop at schools work out well, I would expect it to be implemented nation-wide anywhere anytime pretty soon.

Don't say I haven't warn you.

I would agree more with AA suggestion to simply drop the speedlimit around school to 40kph (with 10kph tolerance still apply). The end result would be maintaining consistency everywhere, plus the end speed around school would be even lower by 5kph.

As I understood from road code, we're supposed to slow down to 30kph around school anyway?

[k14]

As I understood from road code, we're supposed to slow down to 30kph around school anyway?
Only if there's a school bus there dropping off or picking up kids when you drive past.

[Lou Girardin]

Just as an afterthought... What is the correlation, in the last couple of years, between the number of tickets written out and the number of deaths/injuries/accidents, compared to, say 10 years ago?

The cops say a significant one. Independant research shows little, if any.
The road toll fell more in the 10 years before the IRD took over in 2000.

[Lou Girardin]

As I understood from road code, we're supposed to slow down to 30kph around school anyway?


Read it again, especially the bit about school BUSES.

[pritch]

there will be a campaign on speed near schools. The speed tolerance before ticket issuing will be 5km/hr and speed cameras will be involved.
BC.

That sounds about right. One of the Brit magazines mentioned that this was done in Britain and the accident rate around schools increased because all the drivers were watching out for cameras not for kids.

[SARGE]

back home they have a flashing sign during school hours 100 yards either side of a school... 15 mph and a cop with an attitude sitting right there when schools are letting out

[thehollowmen]

In answer to the schoolbus problem

Yes, you will get pinged and in serious trouble.

Yes 20 km/h limit applies to BOTH side (and all lanes!) of the road, even if the bus is parked OFF THE ROAD.

Don't ask how I know this.

[DirtMad]

sorry if this has already been said "couldnt be assed reading all 10 pages" :brick:

How can they get away with giving someone a ticket for being 5 over when the majority of speedometers are only accurate to 10 km/hr gradients ? After all, that is the instrument we use to measure our speed... :angry2:

But im all for lower speeds outside schools :Oops: just a lower speed limit signed of 40-45km/hr maybe?