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mini_me
20th January 2006, 09:15
Hiya all, I'm having a wee bit of an issue with my nc30 as of late
Ill be riding along quite happily and all of a sudden it will start missing and running like absolute shit - IE won't even be able to go up a hill without dropping speed rather drastically) and this missing will progressivly get worse and worse to the point where the motor will kill itself in midstride and I will roll to a halt on the ride of the road.
Now if I leave it for a wee while (10 - 15 min) it will fire up fine on choke and then it will run fine for a while and then 'bam' it all happens again

I have checked the battery and reg/recitifer - these are all fine (the first thing I did) And so the next conclusion I came to was cracked coils - but i haven't the foggiest idea how to test for this conclusivly, but someone said if you wrap the electrode wires from an ammeter around the coil/lead then it will pick up 'leaking' current - this sounded feasible and so I tried this and I and on the coil for the back two cylinders I "picked up" a run off current of ~2 - 4 mA but on the coil for the front two cylinders the same test turned up a reading of ~250 - 300 mA
Is this conclusive enough to diagnose the fast it is the coil?
and it not consistent enough to fueled by heat, because the heat varies so much when it dies and when it comes right again.

Has any of you people got any bright ideas to add which I can test?

The symptons I have been having sound very similar to the ones Vegan was suffering from in this thread here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=21193&highlight=nc30)

thanks
chris

vifferman
20th January 2006, 09:20
Are you sure it's electrical? Sometimes fuelling problems can feel like a misfire caused by something electrical.

mini_me
20th January 2006, 09:22
Are you sure it's electrical? Sometimes fuelling problems can feel like a misfire caused by something electrical.

Yeah I thought about that, came for the conclusion that it is easier to test for an electrical problem than a fueling one.
On a related note, can you put injector cleaner through a carbed bike?

m/m

vifferman
20th January 2006, 09:34
Yeah I thought about that, came for the conclusion that it is easier to test for an electrical problem than a fueling one.
On a related note, can you put injector cleaner through a carbed bike?

Sure you can.
But if it's particulate crap causing fuelling issues, it won't help. Nor will it help something like an air leak, or problem with the fuel tap.
Just a quick thought - have you changed anything at all, like the type of petrol you use? I ask this because when I used 96 in the VFR750 I used to own, it misfired very badly.
Some fueling things are easy enough to check for: check the fuel tap is allowing petrol through; check the tank vent isn't blocked; have a quick check of hoses for cracks, leaks, etc.

SlashWylde
20th January 2006, 09:45
Hey man, I don't know about using injector cleaner but I have used one of the STP or Wynns fuel system cleaners in my carbed bikes. Comes in a red plastic bottle, but I can't remember the exact name of it.

Assuming you haven't allready I'd check all the basics:

Good spark from all the plugs
A healthy battery which stays charged overnight etc
A healthy system voltage when the bike is running
Clean fuel system delivering fuel to the carb(s)
Clean air intake and filter

Do this when the bike is cold first thing in the day, then monitor electrical system while bike is running and again as soon as it dies. You might gain a clue to the problem by monitoring it in these three states i.e. look for changes.

I do have to wonder if the problem is brought on by changes in temperature seeing as there is a time factor involved before the onset of the problem and after a suitable wait period the bike will run again. Expansion of some element of the system due to heat could be introducing a problem, perhaps in an electrical connection.

In my experience with electronics servicing, 90% of the time a fault is due to something physical such as a broken wire, dry solder joint or dry plug connection, open plug connection etc.

You could also ask a friendly bike mechanic if you know one. Ricky and co at Mt Eden are pretty approachable.

Good luck.

mini_me
20th January 2006, 09:47
no change on the fuel front, been running it on 98 since I got it...
I've pulled the fuel tap apart already just after I started having the problems and it apeared to be alright. The thing that gets me is it is soo inconsistent, like yesterday it died 3 times in 80k's of traveling but the last time it died was well over 1000 k's ago and the time before that was around 300k's prior to that
and if it was a fuel blockage/air leak I would have expected the problems to be more consitent

m/m

SlashWylde
20th January 2006, 09:53
In that case I'd say it is an intermittent electrical problem. There could be some clues in that thread started by Vegan. Regulator &/or rectifier. My mate Allun once had a burned spade lug on his regulator for his 400cc Katana which I think produced intermittent problems. He replaced the regulator and burned lugs and all was well.

mini_me
20th January 2006, 09:58
Good spark from all the plugs

yup


A healthy battery which stays charged overnight etc

yup


A healthy system voltage when the bike is running

yup


Clean fuel system delivering fuel to the carb(s)

Already done, but it was a while ago and symptons have persisted in the meantime


Clean air intake and filter

er - thats a very good point forgot about that one....


Do this when the bike is cold first thing in the day, then monitor electrical system while bike is running and again as soon as it dies. You might gain a clue to the problem by monitoring it in these three states i.e. look for changes.

I do have to wonder if the problem is brought on by changes in temperature seeing as there is a time factor involved before the onset of the problem and after a suitable wait period the bike will run again. Expansion of some element of the system due to heat could be introducing a problem, perhaps in an electrical connection.


no, temperature is not a factor. I have had teh bike up to ~100 degrees in traffic and it doesnt die. And when it has died the temperature was in the normal operating range (80 - 90 degrees)

sAsLEX
20th January 2006, 09:58
ok NC30s

Well I have had misfiring problems, KB and the rest suggested carbs for fuel air leak, took them out and cleaned a few times, not an easy task but it does get easy after a while. Problem turned out to be crap spark plugs, after running for a bit test if all the headers are as hot as each other *note maybe spit on them or something other than touching them, I melted a glove checkin once I had fixed the prob.

Also had another prob with the eletrixery due to some absolutley shocking wiring which caused a crap connection and would cough and splutter and die especially in the wet

linkys:
Dirty NC30 needing tweaks (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=13019)
SICK NC30 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=9257)
electrixery diag (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15308&d=1125915428)

mini_me
20th January 2006, 11:32
its not spark plugs...
I have changed them and it has made no difference, I'm starting to suspect coils or leads
does anyone know a good way test for faults?

m/m

NC
20th January 2006, 11:40
Bad earth on your battery?

Ixion
20th January 2006, 11:42
Water in the fuel ?

boris
20th January 2006, 14:43
i had a problem like this, it turn out to be the vacuum pipe running from the carbs to the fuel tap. Well the problem stopped after I played around with that i think it was blocked or something.

FzerozeroT
20th January 2006, 16:03
or the pipe from the tank to carb could be kinked, you can check the resistance between plug caps on each coil, do you have the workshop manual? download from www.400greybike.co.uk

quickbuck
20th January 2006, 17:42
Had a similer problem on by GSX600, except it was after a matter of kilometers. Turned out to be a kinked hose in the elaborite fuel system. Ran fine with the tank off, but kinked it when putting the tank back on 3 times! Anyway the intermittent faults are the hardest to track, good luck.

sAsLEX
20th January 2006, 19:00
or the pipe from the tank to carb could be kinked, you can check the resistance between plug caps on each coil, do you have the workshop manual? download from www.400greybike.co.uk

if you get real stuck I have the haynes manual you may borrow.

Vegan
21st January 2006, 15:52
Your description is exactly the same as what was happening to my bike. After taking it in to be looked at (I gave up wasting time myself) it has turned out to be a faulty R/R which has fucked the alternator and apparently burned out some of the loom aswell..... but your description of the issue couldn't be anymore similar to mine......

LXS
21st January 2006, 22:06
had the exact same prob on my gpx, only had this problem when I was low on gas, I thought it was electrical too.
Once I filled up the tank, problem gone; I've found keeping the tank topped up is a good thing.

Hope this helps?

mini_me
22nd January 2006, 19:37
had the exact same prob on my gpx, only had this problem when I was low on gas, I thought it was electrical too.
Once I filled up the tank, problem gone; I've found keeping the tank topped up is a good thing.

Hope this helps?

sorry, its not linked to how much gas is in the tank.

the bugger now is that my bike thinks it's a triple all the time
i'd better keep it away from those blardy trumpy things

m/m

Bonez
22nd January 2006, 20:07
One thing it could be is one of the cdi pickups breaking down. Happened on my brother's cb650 many moons ago.

Vegan
22nd January 2006, 23:21
When you find the problem - let us know :) Silly bikes...

mini_me
23rd January 2006, 17:17
still no joy, its still running on three cylinders
hey vegan what ended up getting replaced on your bike after all that?
you said the actual loom was damaged - to what degree?
m/m

Vegan
24th January 2006, 12:46
Well, funny thing is .....my bike is STILL in the shop. Went in around xmas, so I thought i'd have it back mid jan. But the rewinder apparently fucked up and didn't tell the shop it was screwed(the alternator - eveidently has been rewound once before) and couldn't be fixed (which apparently is not a problem because they just source another for nothing or almost nothing - the bike shop - not the rewinder). So at this point in the game I am yet to have my bike back. But I was told that R/R was fucked....alternator....and at least some of the loom - to what degree, he was not sure when I last spoke to him.

sAsLEX
24th January 2006, 13:50
But the rewinder apparently fucked up and didn't tell the shop it was screwed

Pfft lazy arse, should of rewound it yourself like I did, only took a few days!

Vegan
24th January 2006, 17:28
Pfft lazy arse, should of rewound it yourself like I did, only took a few days!

Or I could have....NOT rewound it myself....although.....apart from the fact I don't know what the fuck I am doing - it would probably still have been quicker.

mini_me
24th January 2006, 18:52
anyway...im starting to suspect its the CDI. does anyone have a spare one lieing around that I could borrow for a couple of days in order to verify/nulify this suspicion?
oh and btw its cylinders 2 & 4 that are dissapearing
I had a wonderful ride home from pukekohe this arvo...pushing the bike about 50% of the time in the pouring rain and gusts...
cheers to sudeep (motoracer) who stopped to check if i was ok...rep to that man!

this sucks, of all the four stroke bikes i've owned ive had nothing but trouble from them, I might as well have bought a friking two stroke for all the bloody money i've spent

MGST
24th January 2006, 19:27
Your local auto electrician will be able to load-test the spark plug leads to see if the core is cracked. My guy does it for free 'cos it only take 2 minutes - big ups for Jim at Cascades Auto Electrical :-) If it is cracked it will open up now and again as the lead wobbles around from vibration, causing an open circuit and hence no spark to that one plug. They should also be able to test the coil.
The other easy way to test if the leads / coil are shot is to swap on different leads / coil ONE AT A TIME until the problem disappears, thereby proving or disproving the existing items.
There are 2 types of basic spark plug leads - copper, and silicon. The original type has a spiral wound copper/nickel core. The newer type has a silicon or silicon-impregnated carbon core. I think you used to also be able to get carbon core. The problem with these is that with the lead flopping around, the carbon core eventually fractures.

Vegan
24th January 2006, 19:28
is the bike misfiring 100% of the time? Mine would start fucking up around 2 mins into my ride....and which point I had to keep the revs ultra high to keep it from stalling.....but most of the time I just broke down and waited an hour before riding the bike straight home.....either way - broken bikes SUCK!!!!

mini_me
24th January 2006, 19:31
is the bike misfiring 100% of the time? Mine would start fucking up around 2 mins into my ride....and which point I had to keep the revs ultra high to keep it from stalling.....but most of the time I just broke down and waited an hour before riding the bike straight home.....either way - broken bikes SUCK!!!!

no...my one is impossible to pick when it starts missing
but it sometimes will last 100 metre down the road
other times i can go a couple hundred k's b4 any trouble
and _usually_ if i leave mine for 5 - 6 min it will go fine again
m/m

mini_me
25th January 2006, 12:52
ok...so I mananged to corner my bike while it was running on three cylinders, (its seem to fix itself as soon as I get near it with a socket/screwdriver) so I quickly whipped off the tank and set about pulling leads off to see which made a difference, (cylinders 2 & 4 are the troublesome pair) I found that pulling lead number 4 off didnt affect performance at all but pulling lead number 2 off made it run on two.
So I then put another plug I had lying around into the lead and hey presto I have spark - maybe the problem is fuel related, any ideas poeple? And please no-one say pull the carbs off, I've already done that once and dont really feel like doing it again *sob*

m/m

Vegan
25th January 2006, 13:06
I wish my mine was fuel related - I wouldn't have been out a bike for 6 fucking weeks - also just been told it's atleast another week away.
GRRRRRR

sAsLEX
25th January 2006, 13:13
ok...so I mananged to corner my bike while it was running on three cylinders, (its seem to fix itself as soon as I get near it with a socket/screwdriver) so I quickly whipped off the tank and set about pulling leads off to see which made a difference, (cylinders 2 & 4 are the troublesome pair) I found that pulling lead number 4 off didnt affect performance at all but pulling lead number 2 off made it run on two.
So I then put another plug I had lying around into the lead and hey presto I have spark - maybe the problem is fuel related, any ideas poeple? And please no-one say pull the carbs off, I've already done that once and dont really feel like doing it again *sob*

m/m

still sounds like my prob, new set of plugs should be 30 odd bucks, hey at worst you have a spare set, and at best it fixes the prob straight away!

mini_me
25th January 2006, 14:59
new set of plugs should be 30 odd bucks

eh what?

30 bucks?

from memory they cost 50 bucks each

m/m

sAsLEX
25th January 2006, 15:17
from memory they cost 50 bucks each


where did you get the qoute???? a store on barrys point road. as pointed out in the threads I linked to in one of my first points repco can get them considerably cheaper than the bike stores I went to, went to the one on Wairau Road and I am sure it was nearer 30 all up

Vegan
25th January 2006, 16:18
Oh yes btw - I can also get most stuff from repco at wholesale - if you need them :)