TAWA 40KM/H NOooooooooo!

[Wenier]

:doh: Not many of you might no this but Tawa out of wellington for those who dont know this, is under proposal of becoming a mainly 40km/h area except for certain roads (i think it was a total of 4 stay 50km/h).

Personally i dont like to go 50 and 40 is jus gonna make me wanna kill someone, luckily for me i can get home if i go a certain way without being affected (now thats luck :lol: ).

But if they are going to turn tawa to a 40km area wuts gonna stop them doing this to where any of you live.

So wut are everybodies thoughts on this issues, as u can probably tell i hate it and i am highly against this happening!

[James Deuce]

I work with a bloke who lives in a Cul-de-sac in Tawa. He has a 3 year old and an 18 month old. If the behaviour I saw when I went round on a saturday evening from boy-racers at the end of the cul-de-sac is a regular event then the residents would be justified in asking for a 5km/hr limit and a minefield.

[Wenier]

wut street does he live in? :(

[riffer]

Yeah, I mentioned this in a previous thread a couple weeks ago.

Likewise, Khandallah, Broadmeadows, and Ngaio.

It's part of the new plan to let local authorities decide speed limits, and enforce them with speed cameras. This has been tried previously in England, and speed camera numbers increased hugely as a result, with the end result being that a whole load of money was made for local councils, and the road toll increased.

[sigh]

Apart from Tawa, which I have to go to for work purposes and to se my brother and his family, I'll just avoid these areas.

I'm concerned they may not change the speed signs though, and just rely on enforcement techniques to get the message across.

At least we'll all know though, won't we?

[aff-man]

yes i agree but changing the speed limit won't slow boy racers down. And think of having to go 40km/h how slow would traffic become :angry2:

[Wenier]

yea plus they released a map which has the exact proposed position of the cameras and everything else that will b done :laugh:, so theres no chance of getting caught by a camera if youve seen this map

[k14]

I work with a bloke who lives in a Cul-de-sac in Tawa. He has a 3 year old and an 18 month old. If the behaviour I saw when I went round on a saturday evening from boy-racers at the end of the cul-de-sac is a regular event then the residents would be justified in asking for a 5km/hr limit and a minefield.

So does he let his 3 year old play out on the street at 10 o'clock at night or something?

This is totally ludicrous. What will dropping the speed limit by 10kph do?? Only thing i can think of is increase congestion and increase pissed off drivers. What is their reasoning behind dropping it?

[White trash]

I think the proposal is for residential streets, not many main roads. If this is the case I say go for it. I don't spend anytime riding or driving in suburban streets unless it's my own or I'm visiting people.

I couldn't give a shit either way!

[wkid_one]

This is the precursor of the 'individual limit setting' regulation the local bodies are after. LBA's have been trying to get the ability to change speed limits within their juristication to enable them to better manage black spots etc. The hesitancy of the LTSA has been that having differing speed limits adds to the confusion etc that drivers face.

I personally don't mind lowering speed limits in densely population areas - esp areas with a young demographic where the likelihood of kids is high.

HOWEVER - lowering the speed limit is a waste of time - as people will just continue to drive at the same speed - and the limits will just increase revenue.

They would be much better to increase the number of 'speed disincentives' in areas where they wish to reduce speed (speed bumps, speed chicanes etc). For example - most speeding down my parents street is by people who wish to AVOID the main road and the lights. By discouraging them by making the road more difficult to speed down - they are increasing likely to stay off the residential by roads and remain on the main roads.

Also - residential by roads are less controlled driving situations - they tend to have no lights (just stop and give way signs if you are lucky) and limited pedestrian crossings.

I believe their heart is in the right place - by the manner of execution is misguided. Look how many people don't obey the speed limit now - what difference other than revenue collection is dropping it going to do?

[Ms Piggy]

yes i agree but changing the speed limit won't slow boy racers down. And think of having to go 40km/h how slow would traffic become :angry2:

Exactly the point I made in the previous thread about this, the inconsiderate speedsters are not gonna give a rats arse about it are they. :sneaky2:

[James Deuce]

So does he let his 3 year old play out on the street at 10 o'clock at night or something?

This is totally ludicrous. What will dropping the speed limit by 10kph do?? Only thing i can think of is increase congestion and increase pissed off drivers. What is their reasoning behind dropping it?

No he doesn't - 4pm for a BBQ, and I had to drive through a cloud of tyre smoke to get there.

And how does 10pm make it any different? Is it OK to wake kids up or potentially run over panicked pets? Find a carpark or an industrial estate. You do realise you can be charged for manslaughter for killing someone, don't you?

You young fellas think its a huge joke to go and make a crap load of noise late at night in a residential area and then get all defensive when people take a hard line. This proposal (which I think is stupid and reactionary, by the way) has only appeared because people with your attitude have scared and pissed off people in equal measure.

This will be whistling in the wind, but the people who are proposing this may well have been like you once upon a time and had to learn the hard way that a 50km/hr suburban road isn't a freaking race track.

It is a ludicrous proposal, but ask yourself why it came about.

[Wenier]

No he doesn't - 4pm for a BBQ, and I had to drive through a cloud of tyre smoke to get there.

And how does 10pm make it any different? Is it OK to wake kids up or potentially run over panicked pets? Find a carpark or an industrial estate. You do realise you can be charged for manslaughter for killing someone, don't you?

You young fellas think its a huge joke to go and make a crap load of noise late at night in a residential area and then get all defensive when people take a hard line. This proposal (which I think is stupid and reactionary, by the way) has only appeared because people with your attitude have scared and pissed off people in equal measure.

This will be whistling in the wind, but the people who are proposing this may well have been like you once upon a time and had to learn the hard way that a 50km/hr suburban road isn't a freaking race track.

It is a ludicrous proposal, but ask yourself why it came about.

I hope that wasnt aimed at me because if it was i will be highly annoyed as me and the flatmates have loud and fast cars but dont do that around the residential areas. If we want to do anything remotely bad we wait till very late at night and go to an area of motorway or country road that we know is empty at this time and do it then. This way it is safe and we can only hurt or damage ourselves/vehicles.

[James Deuce]

I hope that wasnt aimed at me because if it was i will be highly annoyed as me and the flatmates have loud and fast cars but dont do that around the residential areas. If we want to do anything remotely bad we wait till very late at night and go to an area of motorway or country road that we know is empty at this time and do it then. This way it is safe and we can only hurt or damage ourselves/vehicles.

You might wanna read the post again, then.

But seriously, is that a hidden threat? Because I don't take kindly to those.

[Wenier]

You might wanna read the post again, then.

But seriously, is that a hidden threat? Because I don't take kindly to those.

no threats jus sayin that its not nice to say all young ppl do race around in residential areas, (i no alot do).

[James Deuce]

no threats jus sayin that its not nice to say all young ppl do race around in residential areas, (i no alot do).

You're right, it was a generalisation.

I live right at the top of Maungaraki, and we've had dudes go airborne over the crest of the hill at 2am, messy head-ons, and a couple of near misses when crossing the road to go to the dairy for a bottle of milk because of people using residential road as a race track. My point is that it only takes one person to do one stupid thing to colour the perception the "average" populace for whom cars and bikes are transport, not a passion. I'm stunned at the number of people who think this is acceptable behaviour.

I'm pleased that you don't Wenier.

[Two Smoker]

The sad thing is the only way to deter this type of driving is to have massive crackdowns on boy racers or to put speed bumps everywhere, the problem is with speed bumps is that emergency services can't get there as quick, therefore my house burns down or i die faster

[Lou Girardin]

I used to exceed 40 km/h down The Drive on my Raleigh 20, for Christ's sake.
Crackdown on boyracers today, bikers tomorrow, everyone else-the next day!
Lou

[James Deuce]

I used to exceed 40 km/h down The Drive on my Raleigh 20, for Christ's sake.
Crackdown on boyracers today, bikers tomorrow, everyone else-the next day!
Lou

What about those bloody mobility scooters that sneak up on you when you're going for a healthy walk and listening to you MP3 player?

Bastards make me crap myself every time one of them Geris nudges my ankle with his front tyre!

[Wenier]

What about those bloody mobility scooters that sneak up on you when you're going for a healthy walk and listening to you MP3 player?

Bastards make me crap myself every time one of them Geris nudges my ankle with his front tyre!

Yea damn those mobility scooters, i feel sorry for ya jim2 having to live where all those munters use your street as a racetrack, ya jus need to think of a way to scare them without causing ne accidents and then they will probably shit themselves and not do it again :)

[riffer]

Yes, living in Upper Hutt we have our share of racers on the streets - there's a house round the corner from me which is a boyracer hangout - just like a scene from fast n' furious.

MacLean St (2 hourses away) has about a 600-800m straight just before a 90° corner in which they can get up to at least 130 - we've heard some scary shit at night.

And lots of kids in my area too. I agree - speed bumps and chicanes are the answer.

Although I may take the law into my own hands and start putting down some bricks across our road...

[Angry Puppy]

No he doesn't - 4pm for a BBQ, and I had to drive through a cloud of tyre smoke to get there.

Hasn't your brother heard of charcoal. must make the snags taste funny! :laugh:

Seriously though, I live rond the corner from a couple of large schools and the number of times I've had people overtake me or ride my bumper for doing 50 in a 50 zone..... Changing the limit to 40 would acheive squat. traffic calming measures and appropriate use of speed cameras (i.e. not as cash-cows like in the UK) are the only ways you are going to pacify traffic.

I don't care if we're talking cars or bikes, the laws the law. if you want to drive or ride your toy to the best of it's ability, go on a track day!

[MD]

I've read the proposal and most of it is stupid i.e. the reasonable drivers will all be punished while the few problem drivers ignore the limit as usual. I will be attending the Council -community meeting at Tawa CC building 7pm tonight (23/3).
Some voice of reason needs to be heard amongst the geriatrics at play with our freedom. 3 speed cameras for Tawa which has NO history of fatal or serious injury accidents that I and a few other locals are aware of. This is just a way for the Council to exercise its new powers and raise money. Locals don't speed past schools. I often drop my Kids at the Primary and witness nothing but careful drivers so where is the problem?
MD

[Hitcher]

I hate these sort of "have you stopped buggering sheep yet?" questions that imply that there is some sort of yes or no, black or white answer.

New Zealand drivers' general approach to "speed limits" is to ignore the bloody things as they see fit.

In residential areas there are ways other than posted "limits" to control speeds -- such as judder bars, chicanes, one-way streets, armed militia, and all of the above. Councils for some reason appear loathe to consider these, even when requested/petitioned by residents.

Our locale in Ngaio used to be the turning area for a Turners Car Auctions try-out route before Turners decanted to Petone. On sale nights, stepping onto our street was potentially lethal as young dudes with baseball caps went honking past as fast as they could in second gear. The WCC was not interested in making our street a "slow zone". On Saturday nights we are still a target for boy racers with head fulls of testosterone and nothing to shag. Still no slow zone.

Dismounts hobby horse and returns it to stable...

[pete376403]

I hate these sort of "have you stopped buggering sheep yet?" questions that imply that there is some sort of yes or no, black or white answer.
New Zealand drivers' general approach to "speed limits" is to ignore the bloody things as they see fit. Thats true, refer to your South Island tour thread, about the Canal road.. :2thumbsup

[Hitcher]

Hmmm! Well spotted...

[mangell6]

A number of residents took a movie of some boy racers in their street and then gave it to the police. They put there movie camera to good use.

Changing a sign does not instigate a change in the offenders. How many people call the Police when boyracers are about and annoying the neighbour hood?

Have seen how chicanes have changed the driving behaviour in two areas at The Mount and in Timberlea (UH).

[spudchucka]

Changing a sign does not instigate a change in the offenders. How many people call the Police when boyracers are about and annoying the neighbour hood?

Heaps call the police but the little smackers listen to scanners and they know when they have been spotted.

[Posh Tourer :P]

The issue is not the speed limit per se... The issue is the 10kmh tolerance we have cos we are such crap drivers we cant keep closer to the limit. The problem then is people start treating 60 as the limit. So if you go a bit over 60 ie 62-63kmh, you arent (as some people seem to believe) going 2-3kmh too fast, you are infact going 12-13kmh too fast. The tolerance is there not to be a secondary limit, but to allow a bit of relaxation without getting caught. Having said that, I admit I push the limits regularly round town, but I'm quite happy to let people do 50 if they so choose, and I'll give them room... If I want to go on open road in the car and relax a bit, I aim for 105... 100 is a bit slow and you get traffic up your arse, and I know I'll occasionally creep up to 110 anyways... I'll stick to 110 if I feel like concentrating enough to keep my speed more exact...

[Lou Girardin]

Going to Coromandel on Saturday (in the cage), I tucked in behind an HSV at highly illegal speed for a while. What a bloody relief to do decent speeds on a good road.
Lou

[Wenier]

Yea its great when ya can do that cus usually it will be the car ur following that is gonna get caught and ticketed if there is a cop hiding somewhere :)

[spudchucka]

The issue is not the speed limit per se... The issue is the 10kmh tolerance we have cos we are such crap drivers we cant keep closer to the limit. The problem then is people start treating 60 as the limit. So if you go a bit over 60 ie 62-63kmh, you arent (as some people seem to believe) going 2-3kmh too fast, you are infact going 12-13kmh too fast. The tolerance is there not to be a secondary limit, but to allow a bit of relaxation without getting caught. Having said that, I admit I push the limits regularly round town, but I'm quite happy to let people do 50 if they so choose, and I'll give them room... If I want to go on open road in the car and relax a bit, I aim for 105... 100 is a bit slow and you get traffic up your arse, and I know I'll occasionally creep up to 110 anyways... I'll stick to 110 if I feel like concentrating enough to keep my speed more exact...

From the big chief:

http://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/1302.php



Officer Discretion Remains For Speeding Tickets
National News Release 2:01pm 24 March 2004

Police Commissioner Rob Robinson says that front line officers continue to have discretion over the issuing of speeding infringements and tolerances up to 10 kilometres over the posted limit remain.

The 10 kilometre tolerance factor has been a police operational policy in recent years and continues to be the policy. It is, however, a "tolerance" and not a defacto maximum speed limit.

Commissioner Robinson said that claims by the Opposition spokesperson on Police that police officers were being told to ticket all drivers over the speed limit were wrong.

"Let me make it crystal clear. There is no link between road policing enforcement and government revenue gathering."

"There is absolutely no connection between the funding of road policing outputs and any revenue derived from infringements issued. The separation was covered in a report by the Auditor General in April 2002 where he clearly dismissed any notion of a link between speed cameras and revenue collection."

"The public are certainly a lot more aware of speed enforcement as my staff are being a lot more effective in enforcing the speed limit."

"This is in line with the policy of general deterrence where the road safety experts tell us that any overall reduction in average road speeds will save lives."

"While Police supervisors and managers have certainly tasked their staff with being productive there is no way that the statutorily enshrined powers of constabular independence are being over-ridden."

Commissioner Robinson said that discretion did cut both ways and that in terms of the legally enforceable limits the posted speed limits were the ones that the public should be aiming to keep within.

"If the road and weather conditions are poor and an officer determines that someone travelling over the limit is unsafe then they may well be ticketed. That is a far cry, however, from a policy of no-discretion," said Mr. Robinson.

The Commissioner noted that as Police moved towards introduction of the "Anywhere Anytime" speed camera programme he expected that political attacks on the police enforcement policies would increase.

"The Year to Date road toll gives me further encouragement we should not back off our current policy. At present we’re heading for a 2004 road toll of 460 plus, way more than the 404 of two years ago."

"It is our job to remind some road users of their obligations to other users of the roads. If they drive safely then all other users are safer. I support the efforts of my staff absolutely in endeavouring to achieve this," said Mr. Robinson.


Hopefully more cops remember that discretion is still an option, especially in a 40 kph zone. Personally I don't think Joe public would be policed overly hard in these new speed zones. It does however lower the threshold for taking a licence from an idiot boy racer thrashing it around residential streets.

[riffer]

From the big chief:
TBH spudchucka, when was the last time Rob Robinson spent any time in an HP car checking out drivers?

The fact of the matter is, despite what police bosses say, there is a huge amount of anecdotal evidence which suggests that this is patently NOT the case.

I have personally been pulled over for doing 107 km/h on River Road (100km/h highway) and warned about speed, and pulled over doing 93km/h for a rego, warrant and licence check, as the HP couldn't believe someone on a sports bike would be doing under the limit unless he had something to hide.

I just don't trust the local police to be able tohelp themselves. In the initial stages of introduction of the new limit, they will be out to get the point across. I don't believe I have the necessary patience to sit under 40 km/h throughout the entire length of Tawa.

Therefore I will just avoid the roads. And hopefully the overzealous government-apppointed tax collectors.

[Lou Girardin]

Same old crap from a uniformed politician. With regard to his comments on unsafe speeds under the tolerance, I wonder if they will also be issuing tickets for unsafe speeds under the limit? For instance 45km/h in Queen St, that's bordering on Speed dangerous when it's busy.
Then he says they shouldn't back off on current policy, despite the road toll rising?
But then he's just following the Police creed; never back down, never apologise.
Lou

[spudchucka]

Same old crap from a uniformed politician. With regard to his comments on unsafe speeds under the tolerance, I wonder if they will also be issuing tickets for unsafe speeds under the limit? For instance 45km/h in Queen St, that's bordering on Speed dangerous when it's busy.
Then he says they shouldn't back off on current policy, despite the road toll rising?
But then he's just following the Police creed; never back down, never apologise.
Lou

Refer to Lou's previous post about coconuts, I knew you couldn't resist.

[pete376403]

Ok, yes there is discretion and yes there is a quota. So if the cop is behind quota, you can bet your life he/she is not going to excercise discretion.

[spudchucka]

Ok, yes there is discretion and yes there is a quota. So if the cop is behind quota, you can bet your life he/she is not going to excercise discretion.
The quota is a psuedo one that measures contacts (tickets, warnings, assiting motorists) against hours delivered. Its pretty much a guide that suggests for each hour of traffic enforcemnet a cop should be able to find 2 - 3 traffic offences. Next time you go for a drive count how often you observe stupid or dangerous driving behaviour and generally crapped out unsafe cars. One crapped out car can yield a couple of hours worth of tickets, two of them a day and the so called quota is achieved.

What I'm trying to say is that the required contact rate is not hard to achieve if you are dedicated to traffic work. So the arguement of discretion going out the window because the cop is behind in his quota doesn't wash. As for general duties cops, they tend to do traffic work only when they are in transit between jobs or on very quiet days when they have caught up on the endless paper work. Often they finish one job and are heading directly to the next job and aren't even looking at the radar.

[Lou Girardin]

Come on Spud, Police management is not going to accept 2 or 3 contacts a day even if it does result in a days quota of tickets.
Lou

[spudchucka]

Come on Spud, Police management is not going to accept 2 or 3 contacts a day even if it does result in a days quota of tickets.
Lou

Obviously not for dedicated trafic units. What I'm saying is that for "traffic" units it isn't hard to fulfill a days worth of tickets because that is pretty much all the are doing, (apart from all the inevitable paper work).

The example I used is a crapped out old car, usually being driven by an unlicensed or disqualified, forbidden driver. Appropriate tickets may include: no warrant, no rego, no licence or driving in breach of licence conditions, unsafe vehicle, baldy tread, no seat belt. Likely outcomes may include: driver arrested (disqualified or forbidden), car impounded, car pink stickered, driver gets a fist full of tickets and is forbidden to drive if he does not have a licence.

If a cop stops a couple of cars like this each day then the stats are taken care of. The point is it isn't hard to do most of the time. Personally I wouldn't like to be a traffic cop and have the pressure of achieving the required traffic stats but I know that it can be achieved without hitting Joe public all of the time. Thats why the discretion going out the window because the cop is behind on his quota arguement doesn't wash with me.

As I've said before if traffic cops were mandatorily rotated back through general duties every couple of years their focus may be directed back to targeting the right section of our "community", ie: the burglars, theives, drug dealers etc.

It's just my opinion.

[pete376403]

If a cop stops a vehicle and issues a ticket for multiple offenses, eg speeding + no wof + no reg + unlicenced driver, does that count as four seperate "contacts", ie 1 hour 20 minutes worth?

[spudchucka]

If a cop stops a vehicle and issues a ticket for multiple offenses, eg speeding + no wof + no reg + unlicenced driver, does that count as four seperate "contacts", ie 1 hour 20 minutes worth?
Yes. Each ticket and verbal warning counts as a contact. There can be three offences recorded on one notice, that counts as three contacts. Equally verbal warnings count as contacts. A cop could issue two tickets, (speeding & rego for instance) and warn a driver for three other offences, (bald tyres, no WOF, no seat belt). That would count as five contacts.

Achieving the required traffic stats is easy, thats why I don't accept that discretion is effected by the "quota". I believe the core of the problem is that cops who work traffic too long lose sight of who the good guys are.

Again, just my opinion.

[Lou Girardin]

I would still dispute that a cop can get away with stopping only 2 or 3 cars a day. He might fool senior management, but not his immediate supervisor.
In low traffic areas, they need to book everything to keep the numbers up and a lot of it needs to be excess speed. Because they're the stats that Police and LTSA want.
Lou

[spudchucka]

I would still dispute that a cop can get away with stopping only 2 or 3 cars a day. He might fool senior management, but not his immediate supervisor.
In low traffic areas, they need to book everything to keep the numbers up and a lot of it needs to be excess speed. Because they're the stats that Police and LTSA want.
Lou
Obviously some areas are easier to achieve results in than others. It still comes down to the cop using his noodle.

[riffer]

"2.4 Speed limits of 20, 30 and 40 km/h

Speed limits of 20, 30 or 40 km/h may be set for local roads or minor collector roads in urban traffic areas where the road is used by motorised traffic and pedestrians or cyclists (eg, shared zones) and a speed limit less than 50 km/h is necessary for safety purposes. Speed limits of 20, 30 or 40 km/h are generally not suitable for roads serving a significant collector or arterial function.

These limits can only be set if the calculated speed limit for the road is 50 km/h and appropriate and safe traffic engineering techniques are applied to ensure that the mean operating speed of motorised traffic is kept to within 5 km/h of the speed limit."

It would appear that, according to LTSA, it's not just a matter of changing the speed limit and enforcing it with cameras and police. There must be an attempt made to ENGINEER the road so as to force the traffic to drive slower.

I wonder if you could mount a challenge to a ticket based on the road not being engineered to reduce speed of your vehicle?

[Angry Puppy]

Hasn't your brother heard of charcoal. must make the snags taste funny! :laugh:

Seriously though, I live rond the corner from a couple of large schools and the number of times I've had people overtake me or ride my bumper for doing 50 in a 50 zone..... Changing the limit to 40 would acheive squat. traffic calming measures and appropriate use of speed cameras (i.e. not as cash-cows like in the UK) are the only ways you are going to pacify traffic.

I don't care if we're talking cars or bikes, the laws the law. if you want to drive or ride your toy to the best of it's ability, go on a track day!

OK, I'm not quite sure why this has earned me an extra notch on the 'most disreputable' ladder, but whoever you are, WHATEVER! :bleh:

[FROSTY]

As a parent I think my cul de sac street should be a 20km/h zone and strictly enforced with baseball bats when the lil hoon idiots rip down there at 100mph and use it as a skid pan. As a biker 40km/h on a main road would be a total drag.
I think a complete revamp of speed limits is needed with some arterial roads having their speed limits RAISED from50 to 70 and some side roads having their speed limits reduced. Possibly even having reduced speed limits at 9 am and 3 pm around schools.

[Badcat]

all i can say is you are def. taking your life in your hands speeding in my street.

i think my best friend put it best when he said:
"Think twice before making me protect my children".

and yes - that's a threat, nothing hidden in there at all.

Ken

[wkid_one]

Fergusson Drive in Upper Hutt is a prime example of a street that should have a 60kph limit.....in all the years of driving down that street I have NEVER had someone run out. HOwever my parents street has become a veritable race track as people try to avoid 2 sets of lights by going the back way....yet there are young families in nigh on every second house. Let's just say - back in the days when my old man was still a chippy - it was completely coincidental the amount of Z nails that fell out the back of the ute.

[RiderInBlack]

Fu*k I have enough "fun" getting my bike to do 50KPH, you'd not have much luck of getting me to go slower.

As for speed bumps and chicanes being the answer, don't make me laugh. They only add to the fun for these drives/riders.

Putting down some bricks and Z-nails across your road is only going to cause you and your neighbours more problems than the hoons. Apart from the damage of hit them yourself, you also run the risk of causing someone to loss control of their vehicle makig it plow into your yard or house (how does this protect your children?).

Personally you should not let your child play on any road. It's not safe. Should we have a speed limit of 40KPH on all roads? I say this because I have come accross children (amongst other things, like fu*ken horses Motu:wacko: ) on a lot of the "open" roads I have traveled on. Kids and Horses were on 2-3 different sections of the road that BigB and I rode on Saturday. Luck for them I was raised in the country and am always lookig at for these kinds of hassards (just wished that their parents or owners would take more responcibility and keep them off the road).
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Badcat]

Fu*k I have enough "fun" getting my bike to do 50KPH, you'd not have much luck of getting me to go slower.
Personally you should not let your child play on any road. It's not safe. Should we have a speed limit of 40KPH on all roads? I say this because I have come accross children (amongst other things, like fu*ken horses Motu:wacko: ) on a lot of the "open" roads I have traveled on. Kids and Horses were on 2-3 different sections of the road that BigB and I rode on Saturday. Luck for them I was raised in the country and am always lookig at for these kinds of hassards (just wished that their parents or owners would take more responcibility and keep them off the road).[/color][/size][/font]
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

It's Just a guess, but i'd say you aren't blessed with children?

[RiderInBlack]

It's Just a guess, but i'd say you aren't blessed with children?No, but it does not lessen my point. Have you own stock or horses. Believe me, they are nearly as unpredicable and less able to be reasoned with. Any farm owner (and most Horse owners) know they are responsible for keeping their stock from wandering unsupervised on the road. Is your responsiblity any less as a parent?

[Badcat]

No, but it does not lessen my point. Have you own stock or horses. Believe me, they are nearly as unpredicable and less able to be reasoned with. Any farm owner (and most Horse owners) know they are responsible for keeping their stock from wandering unsupervised on the road. Is your responsiblity any less as a parent?

not dodging responsibilty at all RIB.
very aware of my responsibilities as a parent - thanks.
your point is still bollocks though.
i don't have stock - the point wasn't about stock or horses.
the point was about dickheads speeding through residential areas where children are.
are you really defending them?
and dude - if your bike wont travel at less than 50kph, i suggest you either get it tuned by a grown up - or take some lessons in riding.
(quite glad you don't live near me by the way)

ken

[RiderInBlack]

the point was about dickheads speeding through residential areas where children are.
are you really defending them?
and dude - if your bike wont travel at less than 50kph, i suggest you either get it tuned by a grown up - or take some lessons in riding.
(quite glad you don't live near me by the way)

kenI am not supprised that you are getting all heated-up, as you made you own oppion about what I have been trying to get accross.
This Thread started on what we thought about 40KPH restrictions in highly residental areas.
My point was that you will have very little luck controlling Speeding and Hooning down you streets by any of the methods mention so far. This was a practial statement NOT a condonement for using residential areas for "racing".
I was also trying to state that parents need to keep their child off the streets as it is not safe no matter what the speed restriction is. Sure blame the drive/rider but it's not going to help your kid after it has happened.
If I rode my bike at a speed that would be perfectly safe for any unsupervised child wondering around on the road, it would be easier for me to park the bike out of town and walk there (taxis, buses and other vechicles would still be a risk for that child). Hell why not make your road total safe and turn it in to a big footpath (you would not be able to drive to you house but the children would be safe on the road).

[Badcat]

sorry RIB.
after re-readimg all the posts - i think i over-reacted a little there...
i now see where you are coming from, and we probably agree more than i saw.
a little too much coffee today for me i think.
sorry again

k

[RiderInBlack]

Thats OK BC, I get fired up myself. Bad news because I could argue ether side once I get started.

Hell, I want streets to be safer for everyone (special Kids) as I've work as an Orthopeadic Nurse. But we also need to be practical. I just don't see 40KPH Limits as being so. The ones that are make these streets unsafe will always be do a lot more than 50KPH, why make life more difficult for the rest of us?

[Badcat]

totally with you on the argue either side thing!!
i was thinking just that.
be well bud.

k

[pete376403]

Keeping the kids safe by keeping off the road (ie on the footpath) is the PARENTS responsibility, and no-one elses. It is even possible that the slower speed restriction will lead to more kids being injured if the parents neglect their responsibilty because of a "the kids are all right, we're in a special slow zone" mindset.
Spoken (written) as a parent who raised four kids in one of Upper Hutts back street high speed bypasses

[rodgerd]

As I've said before if traffic cops were mandatorily rotated back through general duties every couple of years their focus may be directed back to targeting the right section of our "community", ie: the burglars, theives, drug dealers etc.

It's just my opinion.

Am I more likely to be killed by a burglar, or a twat behind the wheel?

Hell, I've been hit by twats in cars more often than I've been burgled.

[Badcat]

Keeping the kids safe by keeping off the road (ie on the footpath) is the PARENTS responsibility, and no-one elses. It is even possible that the slower speed restriction will lead to more kids being injured if the parents neglect their responsibilty because of a "the kids are all right, we're in a special slow zone" mindset.
Spoken (written) as a parent who raised four kids in one of Upper Hutts back street high speed bypasses

no-one said is wasn't the parent's resonsibility.
ken

[pete376403]

Yah but the purpose of the 40 restirction is to ensure the streets are safe for the kiddies. The parents can ignore their responsibility cos the drives will get blamed if the vehicle is unable to stop when the kid pops out from between parked cars.

[ManDownUnder]

I work with a bloke who lives in a Cul-de-sac in Tawa. He has a 3 year old and an 18 month old. If the behaviour I saw when I went round on a saturday evening from boy-racers at the end of the cul-de-sac is a regular event then the residents would be justified in asking for a 5km/hr limit and a minefield.

I say leave the speed at 50kph and give all residents a painball gun (regularly supplied with ammo as part of their rates of course)

The law could read "any dickheads in cages should be considered to have a target on the drivers window"

Of course should you HIT that windows you get 50 points and 1/2 the fine the idiot would have got.

If the window is open... double points and the WHOLE fine! :yeah:


MDU

[FROSTY]

RIB dude you have NO idea how bloody quick little kids can be.
The little bugers can be up and gone in a mater of seconds
It is impossible to watch em all the time and with the amount of infill building and stuff going on the only place left to kick a ball around can be the street.
But that aside I still feel that lowering some speed limits would be advantagous --as well as RAISING some speed limits. A perfect example would be great north road--a main arterial road.

[MD]

Update on this old thread. I got a report today from the Council with the outcome from our submissions on Tawa road safety proposals. Must be great to be an all powerful Council able to ignore constituents sound logic and to hell with democracy- the Council knows best for us idiot rate payers.
Despite only 4 submissions supporting 40kph its coming. 29 were against it and a further 57 wanted it watered down/conditional.
Atleast I half won my private battle against the m/way off ramp & slip road reduction from 100 to 50. They amended this to 70kph. Still that is probably enough to cause merging vehicles to crash where there has been no reported crashes in the past. Quiet clever that. They take a crash free spot, impose stupid law and hey presto they can justify ther decision because, guess what, NOW it is a crash black spot- lucky we anticpated this and acted first they'll say as they pat each other on the back. Bastards, I'd go live in a communist country if I could bloody well find one with decent roads.
Be scared, your neighbourhood will be next.

[Wenier]

damn thats a real bugger o well i dont live in tawa no more so it dont matter to me even though i was the starter of the thread suprise it got so much feed back.

[James Deuce]

Update on this old thread. I got a report today from the Council with the outcome from our submissions on Tawa road safety proposals. Must be great to be an all powerful Council able to ignore constituents sound logic and to hell with democracy- the Council knows best for us idiot rate payers.
Despite only 4 submissions supporting 40kph its coming. 29 were against it and a further 57 wanted it watered down/conditional.
Atleast I half won my private battle against the m/way off ramp & slip road reduction from 100 to 50. They amended this to 70kph. Still that is probably enough to cause merging vehicles to crash where there has been no reported crashes in the past. Quiet clever that. They take a crash free spot, impose stupid law and hey presto they can justify ther decision because, guess what, NOW it is a crash black spot- lucky we anticpated this and acted first they'll say as they pat each other on the back. Bastards, I'd go live in a communist country if I could bloody well find one with decent roads.
Be scared, your neighbourhood will be next.

Democracy starts and ends with each election. If you don't have the MPs and councillors in place you want you're :buggerd: until the next round of elections. The elected reps assume they have a mandate to do what they need/want as a result of the elections and any public submissions/referenda are only acted upon if it is obvious that a critical mass has been reached that will affect the outcome of the next election.

[wkid_one]

Update on this old thread. I got a report today from the Council with the outcome from our submissions on Tawa road safety proposals. Must be great to be an all powerful Council able to ignore constituents sound logic and to hell with democracy- the Council knows best for us idiot rate payers.
Despite only 4 submissions supporting 40kph its coming. 29 were against it and a further 57 wanted it watered down/conditional.
Atleast I half won my private battle against the m/way off ramp & slip road reduction from 100 to 50. They amended this to 70kph. Still that is probably enough to cause merging vehicles to crash where there has been no reported crashes in the past. Quiet clever that. They take a crash free spot, impose stupid law and hey presto they can justify ther decision because, guess what, NOW it is a crash black spot- lucky we anticpated this and acted first they'll say as they pat each other on the back. Bastards, I'd go live in a communist country if I could bloody well find one with decent roads.
Be scared, your neighbourhood will be next.
And how much tax dollars did this fiasco suck up - for what benefit. I would really love to sit down with the people who do the feasibility studies for these wonderous ideas - as shit, if they can make them work, I want them in on my next request for a pay rise! It must be the same people who think annually that raising PM's salary is a good idea.

It is strange - coz they still fuck around with making decisions about places that are typically traffic nightmares. What difference is 10kph going to make in all honestly. Shit if someone is going to hit you at 50kph - all it will mean is the dent is going to be smaller.

[riffer]

What difference is 10kph going to make in all honestly. Shit if someone is going to hit you at 50kph - all it will mean is the dent is going to be smaller.

Not according to Monash University Research Centre...

[bear]

I reckon it's confusing enough now, there's already 50, 60, 70, 80 zones, and sometimes hard to remember what speed zone you're in. Another ploy to increase ticketing writing?

[MD]

2nd resurrection of this thread for those interested. Those that aren't, well your suburb will be next sooner or later. The Wgtn City Council has mailed out it's final proposal. After living here for 7 years with no fatal acidents in Tawa the WCC are still going to wrap us in cotton wool with the entire suburb reduced to 40kph. This will increase petrol consumption, increase travel times and increase road rage all in order to reduce the zero fatalities to... zero! Like can't they find real black spots to resolve.
Oh, the braindead shitheads have left a single through road at 50 - in places. How kind of them. But only after stuffing it up with more roundabouts than bomb craters in Iraq so it makes no bloody difference. So now ever bloody trip, no matter what time of day, or road conditions is going to be at a walking pace.
If it didn't piss me off so much I'd laugh at the complete waste of time this whole exercise will be. Here's the real laugh and why this will make no difference. 3 weeks ago a car load of very drunk lads crashed in front of our house. Our street takes a steep straight climb then levels off (totally blind view beyond the crest). So these lads wanted to get airborne. They freely admitted to me and the Police that they were doing 130 to get some serious airtime. Idiots forgot that 1. they couldn't see anything beyond the top lip, so God help any pedestrians or cars coming towards them - they landed on the other side of the road. 2. after the crest the road veers left then right- hard to turn left whilst airborne, as they discovered when they went across a driveway and lawn then bounced off a tree.
Anyway, that's all beside the point- WHAT BLOODY DIFFERENCE WOULD THE LIMIT BEING 40 HAVE MADE! Had it been 40, 50 60 or bloody 19.6kph they would have still crashed at 130!! But now the WCC finally have a crash stat to back their stupid proposal and make every good driver suffer. Just as well I'm getting into cycling more, even that may soon be at illegal speeds.
:angry2:

[Madness]

There might be a small upside????
With any luck the Wellington Highway Patrol might spend more time in Tawa, after all the bakery there is pretty good and they can fill their quota in an hour with the new speed limit ( simply ticket all those doing 50km/h ) and then have a snooze for the rest of their shift.....:zzzz: :zzzz: :zzzz:

I hope they don't try it in the Hutt!!:2guns: :2guns: :2guns:

[Coyote]

Just as well I'm getting into cycling more, even that may soon be at illegal speeds.

Or cycling will get more restrictions. Eventually we'll have to all have brake lights and indicators, warrants to make sure it doesn't fall to pieces on the road and all bikes will need to be rego'd

[madboy]

The Nana State strikes again. How blanket is this? Are we talking the ENTIRE Tawa suburb? Or are we talking a selected few areas?

[MD]

The Nana State strikes again. How blanket is this? Are we talking the ENTIRE Tawa suburb? Or are we talking a selected few areas?
The entire bloody suburb Madboy! Does that makes sense to you? Hard to believe a suburb with no fatalities or serious injury crashes in decades suddenly needs every single street made safer. I asked the WCC at a local meeting for the serious stats and they admitted there have not been any!
I mean shit a brick what next. Following their stupid logic to it's idiotic conclusion to remove all threats you must have 5kph speed limits, no electricity, no playgrounds, no rivers, creeks,streams or oversized puddles, no structures higher than 2 metres...
No, even better, their utopia - NO PEOPLE= ZERO DEATHS/INJURIES.
Why fix what's clearly not broken, that's my gripe.:brick:
Look at the bright side. At 55kph you're doing a runner!

[madboy]

Look at the bright side. At 55kph you're doing a runner!I couldn't condone runners. But I'd still try it on from 40, on principle. But if it ties up some more valuable police resources in enforcing a strategic safety initiative :rofl: then I'm all for it - gives the real criminals a break. And since I'm trying to kill someone according to the LTNZ, that must mean that I'm a real criminal.

[Wenier]

2nd resurrection of this thread for those interested. Those that aren't, well your suburb will be next sooner or later.
....
stupid proposal and make every good driver suffer. Just as well I'm getting into cycling more, even that may soon be at illegal speeds.
:angry2:

I can tell you the difference, more revenue! Now im surprised to see this thread i started years ago hanging in there, man im proud.

Secondly i havent been living in Tawa due to a move south sometime ago but on trips had seen how many stupid roundabouts had been installed and thought this is just ridiculous. And besides that i am moving North again soon so will be spending more time in the Tawa area on weekends and would get annoyed by the 40k limit.

Sad to see they still passing it through so yea. Good luck for all the locals.

[madmal64]

Gee now I suppose those wonderful "your speed" digital readout signs at either end of main road in Tawa will start showing that SLOW DOWN at just over 40 kmh now. :thud: