Bearings

[sefer]

Has anyone had any luck with replacing trasmission bearings with 'aftermarket' ones from the local bearing shop?

I just wonder as I'm replacing mine. I went down to the local Saeco branch with my numbers and bearing (Saeco cause they're the NZ agent for NTN). They looked through their books and said they'd got what I wanted and would have it the next day. I go to pick them up, and they have ordered another brand with the 'same specs' .

Of course they were no good since the ones I'm replacing have a 2mm circlip groove, and a standard circlip groove is only 1.3mm. You'd think this was an honest mistake on their part (which it was really), apart from the fact I knew and told them it had to be NTN ones for that exact reason.

Anyway, now I'm stuck. Should I get them to order in the 'correct' bearings and hope that I am infact right, or just pay (a lot) more and order them as a 'genuine part'?

They're NTN 6205 n x3 BTW. I know they're used in the other zxr bikes in some form, and an '83 1100 goldwing (no idea where). You can't order the exact same bearing from Saeco, but you can get a 6205 n (n code is for the circlip groove), which I'm led to believe are the same.

[SimJen]

Some manufacturers have bearing manufacturers manufacture bearings under licence. They can be almost the same but subtly different. I had a similar issue with rebuilding NSR cranks many years ago. Took a lot of hunting but eventually I got the correct ones from Spain!

[Ixion]

I've always used generic bearings when there is one available. Even the Jappa manufacturers don't make their own bearings, they just buy them in from bearing manufacturers. Only hard part is getting the right one (as you have found), the japs are shits for using non-standard sizings.

[pete376403]

Take them back -they are not what you ordered and tell them to get the right ones.

[imdying]

Could you get another circlip? Considered flagging the circlip and using Loctite bearing retainer? I know they used to do that rebuilding two stroke cranks.

[DEATH_INC.]

Or just shave .7 off the inside....

[F5 Dave]

. . the ones I'm replacing have a 2mm circlip groove, and a standard circlip groove is only 1.3mm. . .

Sorry which way around was that? You mean the ZXR ones are 2mm & the replacements are 1.3?

-but are they in the same position? Depending on where the groove sits it may be against the same thrust face anyway, but I wouldn't sweat .7 difference in most cases.

If it is the other way around then you could run the circlip from the old bearing or shave the circlip, or open the groove to fit the thicker circlip.

[sefer]

Right, just to be slightly clearer :)

The original bearings have a 2mm groove, I've been refering to it as a circlip groove, but it doesn't actually have a circlip on it, rather a half-circle retaining (set) ring that holds the bearing in place on the crankcase (probably only when putting the thing together, but I can't really take that chance :) )

The bearing they got in for me (which I have returned) was identical, apart from the groove being 1.3mm. I had already been told that any other bearing I got (i.ei non-NTN) wouldn't work because of this. I did consider machining the difference, but it's impractical as I don't have the gear to do it myself, and it is not a sealed bearing, so any metal shards could ruin it.

Now, the 'correct' NTN bearing, the 6205 n one should be the same as the current one, having the 2mm groove, but no-one can seem to confirm this is the case. Because they'd have to order them in, and have already got two for me which are probably useless to them, I don't really want to get them only to find they will not work.

The 6205 bearing seems to be a really common bike bearing. It's the n (circlip groove) and the x3 (possible chamfer?) that are making it hard.

Anyway, I'm going to try another place tomorrow, South Island Bearings, as recommended by one of the local bike stores I was at today looking at helmets. I don't know they'll be able to help, as Saeco is the sole distubutor in NZ for NTN, but it's worth trying. I'll go back to Saeco if I get stuck, and Kawasaki if I have no luck at all.

[sefer]

If it is the other way around then you could run the circlip from the old bearing or shave the circlip

I've considered shaving the ring too, probably safer and eaiser than the actual bearing, but in the end finding the right one would be so much eaiser..

I won't have the clutch parts I need to finish till at least Monday anyway, so I'm in no rush atm. Still it'd be nice to just have to fit the clutch and pour some oil in when they do arrive.

[jonbuoy]

Hi,

Know youre not from Auckland but these guys are really good, I have been ripped off by Saeco Bearings in Auckland in the past at work. They charged us 50% more than Auckland Bearings did for the same ones. We get miniature precision and other special ones from them - no I don't work for them! Just had good service. Good luck.

[sefer]

Hey thanks. If I have no luck with South Island Bearings I'll give them a call.

[sefer]

Ah ha, on checking it's the same company :)

[imdying]

A top salesman (actually might be branch manager now, I forget) of Saeco Chch is a biker, has an FZR400. Maybe ring and talk to him personally? (sorry, name escapes me)

[sefer]

Chears for that info. If I have no luck with South Island Bearings I intend to try the other CHCH Saeco branch in hope they'll know more. Maybe he's at that one.

[Pixie]

I spoke to Caroline at A&E Bearings in auckland.
She confirmed that the x means it is a special.The standard groove size is 1.35 mm.If you have no luck,call her, she may be able to source the right bearing.
Ph 09 838 8268

[sefer]

Hey thanks for that. :niceone:

Who knew finding a bearing was going to be so hard :slap:

The general opinion so far is that unless I go genunine I won't find a match, and while I'm still waiting for a price from kawasaki I'm thinking it's going to be a lot.

I'm thinking it's going to come down to three options (excluding genunine on assumtion that I'm not going to want to pay their cost.. ) :

1: I use Loctite bearing retainer and a $8 6205 bearing (easiest, but safe?)

2: I shave the set ring .3 each side and use a $20 6205 n bearing (should be easy enought to do myself with no special tools, but probably not ideal)

3: I find someone to machine either a $8 6205, or $20 6205 n bearing to the right specs (harder, cost of labour unknown, prob safest)

[imdying]

Option 4: Buy the factory part :D

Friend of mine who knows his stuff doesn't recommend the loctite only, bearing may still move. I trust this guy implicitly, so I retract my earlier suggestion.

Now I remember the guy from Saeco here in Chch, it's Phil. iirc they have two branches, and iirc he's at Blenhiem road way? Ask about, you'll find him, he knows his stuff (used to be at South Island Bearnings when they were still Mainland Bearings). Tell him Malcolm from Safe Rs suggested he'd be the man with the knowledge ;)

[sefer]

Option 4 is only an option if they're reasonably priced in my book :)

Thanks for that info. I've given up on the direct approach for today (i.e. actually going into places), but have emailed a buch of places to see what they say. Probably a good idea all told, gives them a chance to check their details without having to worry about me waiting.

I've actually done quite a bit of reseach on this myself now, having found some NTN catalogues online, and have discovered that the standard 6205n bearing does have a wider groove at a min of 1.65mm. Still not quite wide enough, but I could get the ring down to fit that without too much effort (without calipers, the ring itself is around 1.6 - 1.8mm).

I've actually just finished looking into the loctite option, and it's not as bad as I though it might be. The tech sheets show that it should work no problem if you use the strongest retainer product they have, as it doesn't degrade in strength at all over 1000 hrs in use in a 125 degree oil environment (where as the med strength one degrades to about 80% at that time). Still I'd probably only use it in conjunction with option 2.

[imdying]

Yeah, you wouldn't be the first to loctite a bearing in. No chance of getting a thinner clip to fit? Try Paykels engineering supplies here in town.

[Ixion]

ONly thing to watch if using loctite is that the clip may locate as well as secure. So you will need to be VERY careful that you get the bearing in exactly the right position . Sometimes this controls things like endfloat on shafts and such like (can't say if this is the case in your situation).

[sefer]

Yeah, you wouldn't be the first to loctite a bearing in. No chance of getting a thinner clip to fit? Try Paykels engineering supplies here in town.

I probably could, but then there will probably be too much movement in it from the case groove.

I think that if I can't get anything else tomorrow I'll get them to order me in some of the NTN 6205n bearings and shave the ring. Shouldn't be too hard as I'll probably only need to take 1-2mm off.



ONly thing to watch if using loctite is that the clip may locate as well as secure. So you will need to be VERY careful that you get the bearing in exactly the right position . Sometimes this controls things like endfloat on shafts and such like (can't say if this is the case in your situation).


Yeah I have considered that too. I probably won't go that way anyway now, but if it ends up that way I'll try to measure up the placement based on where the old bearing locates.

[sefer]

A picture is better than words, plus is probably of intrest to those zxr owners who wouldn't dare split their case (bright bastards :D )

First picture shows the transmission with the output shaft in place. The clutch shaft has an identical set-up as far as the bearings go.

[sefer]

Yay, Kawasaki finally got back to me today, and I was suprised, the bearings actually aren't that much at $27 each. The catch....ex Japan at least three weeks wait :doh:

Well I am not waiting that long, so I'm going to shoot off emails to every kawa dealer I can now seeing if they have them in stock. Then I'm going to see if I can order the NTN bearings with the slightly wider groove and what they cost. I'll just go with the first place to be able to get me either.

[Pixie]

option 5
get the bearing with the 1.35 mm groove,get a 1.35 mm retaining ring at the same time.
And use retaining compound as well,paying attention to what Ixion said in post #20

[sefer]

Wow! and I thought Kawasaki parts were expensive. I just called Honda to find out what they charge for the same bearing (managed to find a part number for it).......$70! Granted it's an older bike ('83) and seems to be the only model to use this bearing, but f**k what a difference! :shit:


Apparently Saeco now have the bearings I want in stock, so I'll give it till Monday on the off chance that one of the Kawa dealers have some in stock. If not I'll get the ones from Saeco, assuming the price is about the same (never actually priced them there as it came down to I needed them).

Thanks for all the advice and efforts on my behalf guys. I'll let you know how I get on. Hopefully I'll have a roaring (...ok whining) baby by Tuesday :D