214 HP and rising.

[Lou Girardin]

Turbo GSX-R 1000 K4 on the dyno now.
6 lbs boost, all home fabricated.
Yee-friggin-hah.

[bugjuice]

'kin yeah mate!!
can you get some footage, or at least some pics..??

'ang on, where's the.....

<img src="http://cs.kawiforums.com/forum_images/signs/ttiwwop.gif"></img>

de're it is..

Wanna have a go at that myself some day

[Fishy]

6lb ain't much. Has it been run any higher? would be interested in seeing what it puts out at around 18lb

[MisterD]

Two words: Bloody hell!

[SVrunner]

Listen for the bang.

[DMNTD]

Turbo GSX-R 1000 K4 on the dyno now.
6 lbs boost, all home fabricated.
Yee-friggin-hah.
Now that's what I'm talking about!!! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
Would be interested to see how/what has been done to the K4 :psst:

[Sniper]

I sense a lifespan of less the 5000km

[Postie]

6lb ain't much. Has it been run any higher? would be interested in seeing what it puts out at around 18lb
6lbs and 214hp is probably plenty for the poor rear tyre........

[bugjuice]

not nessascarily, Snipe. If it's built right, and it's not being over stressed, it could carry on to be a reliable engine.. These engines are designed to be hacked around a track their whole life, so the added pressure of a light turbo done right for road riding, with some things upgraded like bearings etc, no reason why it wouldn't be.
I've heard of a ZX6 that was turbo'd, and it's happily done 10,000 miles since it was put together and still going

[Sniper]

Fair enough, but I was under the impression, that a bike built like a K4 was built and tuned to get the absolute best out of the motor. Adding the extra pressure of air from a turbo would add undo stress to the motor.

Of course, I have no proof and its just a theory.

[WRT]

Ok sod the lot of ya, I'm not posting the link again, but there is the article on here about the 91 GSXR that's been turbo'd and is poking out 306kw (yes, kw, not hp) that is time proven to be reliable.

Good on the guy for having the balls to chuck a turbo on his gixxer. But I'm with Fishslayer - wind up the boost and really stretch her legs!

[Momentum]

I wanted to get a turbo off a little 660cc cage motor and put it on the 250 to how that would go.

BIG UPS TO THE DUDE FOR SLAPPING ON THE TURBO

[JWALKER]

hhhmmm, i love hearing turbo. . . bike. . . fast . . so nice

[Marmoot]

6lb ain't much. Has it been run any higher? would be interested in seeing what it puts out at around 18lb

If my calculations are correct, with 18lbs it essentially becomes GSXR2100
If everything runs well, a figure closer to 350 should be on the table

[In The Breeze]

Hells bells :sweatdrop Sounds like the shit if set up right
If not over agressive and could be ridden ok commuting as well Id be in

[James Deuce]

Haha, good one Buggy. That Cary on the Kawiforums cracks me up.

[willy_01]

with the set up you would need to run 18psi the turbo lag would not be cool. at a guess at 6psi he'd still be running stock pistons with standard comp. maybe bigger/thicker head gasket so the bike would still pull like a standard (more or less) K4 off idle. sounds like the guy has met a very good compromise:niceone:

[Lou Girardin]

I don't have pics, there's nothing much to see. Engine is stock, reliability should be like standard at that boost. Boost starts at 3000 and is very progressive.
K5 owners should be careful of standard looking K4's wanting to play.
This thing has the latest model magic mirrors too.

[bugjuice]

to turbo a motor seems to be a fairly easy exercise in the right mind..
once the warranty is up on mine, on goes the blower..

[Fishy]

I don't have pics, there's nothing much to see. Engine is stock, reliability should be like standard at that boost. Boost starts at 3000 and is very progressive.
K5 owners should be careful of standard looking K4's wanting to play.
This thing has the latest model magic mirrors too.

Lou, those magic mirror are bloody awesome aren't they! :rolleyes:

[vifferman]

This thing has the latest model magic mirrors too.
Que?
:spudwhat:

[cowpoos]

If my calculations are correct, with 18lbs it essentially becomes GSXR2100
If everything runs well, a figure closer to 350 should be on the table

given that all normally aspirated vehicles run a vacum rather than positive presure and so do alot of forced induction vehilces...I would be really interested how you came up with that figure....and more interested how it is relivant...as horse power is generated out of an engines ability to flow air...the volume of air... the PSi or bar figures crap people wank on about is as meaning less to a engines performance as steak is to a horse... all it seems to do is give boi racers something to talk about... :tugger:

[cowpoos]

6lb ain't much. Has it been run any higher? would be interested in seeing what it puts out at around 18lb

if it has standard compression ratio... it would be far to risky to run 18lbs... detination would almost be certain...

[Fishy]

Oh I see....

[Fishy]

Que?
:spudwhat:

From one of my threads a couple of days ago...... "I like the factory fitted magic mirrors and they are so easy to operate... If you see pretty red and blue lights flashing in the mirrors just twist your right hand around and hold it there and you will actually see the pretty lights get smaller and smaller in the mirrors and then they actually vanish altogether."

[Fishy]

This looks pretty mean, putting out over 220 at the wheel....

[Lou Girardin]

Que?
:spudwhat:

It was on another post.
Magic mirrors operated by a switch on the right grip. Twist it hard and everything in the mirrors gets very small, very quickly.

[WRT]

This looks pretty mean, putting out over 220 at the wheel....

Ah yes, but it does seem to come minus the magic mirrors.

[Lou Girardin]

given that all normally aspirated vehicles run a vacum rather than positive presure and so do alot of forced induction vehilces.

At full throttle a naturally aspirated engine still has a slight vacuum.
In contrast, a forced induction engine has a positive pressure in the intake, in this case 6 psi. Or nearly half as much again as N/A
In effect this increases the capacity of the engine, which is why motorsport has a multiplier formula to maintain parity with N/A engines.
In F1 it was reckoned that a turbo'ed 1.5 litre was equivalent to 3 litres N/A.
Which we all know was bullshit, it was more like 9 litres.

[2much]

Do ya know what kinda turbo he's using? And was it intercooled at all?

[Kickaha]

In F1 it was reckoned that a turbo'ed 1.5 litre was equivalent to 3 litres N/A.
Which we all know was bullshit, it was more like 9 litres.

About 1hp per cc in qualifying trim

We got a crappy old Quad sitting at work with a Hayabusa turbo motor at the moment it's only got about 400hp :lol:



I sense a lifespan of less the 5000km

Why? does it belong to Dover?

[Sensei]

Have a Rapid mag with a 500 RWHP Busha in it & still not running the Nitro yet ??

[DingDong]

I'm thinking of the $$$, K4/headers/tanks/Turbo/tuning/+++/ & many mods to fairing to make it all stick and still look like a K4 at the end.

Brave indeed...

Update us on the next run:corn:

[aff-man]

depends on space etc etc..

Hey buggy i am not to sure if you got enough room under your hood for a turbo...

But in saying that turbo'sing that older zx6 you got lying around would not be a bad idea cause of all the mods it already has:woohoo: :woohoo:

[myvice]

Why mess about?
Nick the loud bit off the cop helicopter and tape it in ya frame!

That’s some impressive power to get out of a 1lt engine, I wonder what nos would do?

[WINJA]

given that all normally aspirated vehicles run a vacum rather than positive presure and so do alot of forced induction vehilces...I would be really interested how you came up with that figure....and more interested how it is relivant...as horse power is generated out of an engines ability to flow air...the volume of air... the PSi or bar figures crap people wank on about is as meaning less to a engines performance as steak is to a horse... all it seems to do is give boi racers something to talk about... :tugger:
GIVEN THAT THE ATMOSPHERE WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW (IM AT SEA LEVEL) IS ABOUT 14.7 PSI ABS OR 0 GAUGE WE THEN SAY THAT AT 14.7ABS PSI OR 29.4 PSI GAUGE YOUVE EFFECTIVELY DOUBLED THE CAPACITY OF THE ENGINE , THIS IS CALCULATED WITH NO PREASURE DROP FROM ATMOSPHERE TO COMBUSTION CHAMBER BUT ITS BALL PARK .
HOPE ITS GOT A SHOW OFF VALVE FITTED PISHHHHH PISHHHHHHHH

[bugjuice]

depends on space etc etc..

Hey buggy i am not to sure if you got enough room under your hood for a turbo...

But in saying that turbo'sing that older zx6 you got lying around would not be a bad idea cause of all the mods it already has:woohoo: :woohoo:
there's a dude in the states who's stuck 2 turbos on his 03 636. oh yeah, it can be done. There's a dozen turboed 636s in the states. Most of the bikes can be turboed (http://www.nlrsystems.com/pages/mcxpress_index.html), and most have been done. Just gotta look. (http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=33&p=7)

I was just gonna do a small light pressure one. That way, you don't have to worry about intercoolers etc, and it won't be so hard on the engine. But still give enough kick to go 12 O'clock in 3rd off the throttle

[Mental Trousers]

Lou, was it running avgas or somethingelse exotic or pump fuel??

6lbs would be reliable as provided bearings etc have been taken care of.

[Marmoot]

given that all normally aspirated vehicles run a vacum rather than positive presure and so do alot of forced induction vehilces...I would be really interested how you came up with that figure....and more interested how it is relivant...as horse power is generated out of an engines ability to flow air...the volume of air... the PSi or bar figures crap people wank on about is as meaning less to a engines performance as steak is to a horse... all it seems to do is give boi racers something to talk about... :tugger:

As winja said.

As a rule of thumb, assuming 100% efficiency (i.e, ideal situation), for every 1 bar (= 16psi? not sure what the exchange rate is between psi and bar) of forced induction roughly equals to doubling the engine capacity.

Also, Spec-sheet compression ratio figures are compiled based on the volume of combustion chamber when piston is down against the volume of the chamber when piston is up. However, to see how forced-induction can affect the engine performance you will need to see the compression ratio from a different angle. If you compare the volume AND density of air (mixed with fuel) between piston-down and piston-up, it will not be the same figure anymore.
The volumes of those two situations may still be the same. But, the pressure (now twice the pressure from original engine) is now doubled and therefore I can say that compression-ratio for this engine has doubled. For example, what originally was 11:1 now has become 22:1. Yes, psi/bar figure relates to horsepower like steak to a horse.....if you like horse steak. And they actually do Horse steak in Asian countries where cows are expensive.
Disclaimer: this is only my way of explaining how denser air relates to higher horsepower, and is in no way an official way of explaining compression ratio. So you will not see any 22:1 compression ratio out there on any working bike engine.

Given that there will be engineering compromises (ignition retarding, lower compression, etc) and non-ideal situations (frictions, engine inefficiency, etc) then you might be looking at 60-75 percent increase instead of 100 percent.

So, at 18psi you can make the 1k will be quite like GSXR2100.
But, the power will not be 2.1 times the original.

That is if the engine does not blow up first. Those water jacket rupture can kill pistons very quickly.

If it is me, I wouldn't worry about the power so much. I would definitely get the Pishhh valve first! Turbo is all about fashion statement.

[Lou Girardin]

More details.
It's running a GT28 turbo, no intercooler. Power stayed at 214, torque was 105 lb/ft at 8000 rpm. It's running straight pump gas.

[bugjuice]

was the exhaust being dumped straight from the turbo, or was it using the stock/AM pipe out the back like there's nothing there? And where's the air being drawn from? Did you see?

[ducatilover]

if it has standard compression ratio... it would be far to risky to run 18lbs... detination would almost be certain...
yup, i have a mate in wellywood that kept the standard head gasket on his familia gtx whilst fitting a turbo that had the ability to push 25lbs through that little piece of shit, and geuss what happened?:crybaby: :Oops: :laugh:

[ducatilover]

At full throttle a naturally aspirated engine still has a slight vacuum.
In contrast, a forced induction engine has a positive pressure in the intake, in this case 6 psi. Or nearly half as much again as N/A
In effect this increases the capacity of the engine, which is why motorsport has a multiplier formula to maintain parity with N/A engines.
In F1 it was reckoned that a turbo'ed 1.5 litre was equivalent to 3 litres N/A.
Which we all know was bullshit, it was more like 9 litres.
there is no "equvilant" is there? what about the old brm v16s? n/a engines that had a capacity of 1500 or 1600cc [cant remeber but i think its the latter] and producing about 600hp at some extreme rpm.. the only problem was the ignition couldnt cope with producing the right amount of sparks:eek:..

[ducatilover]

Have a Rapid mag with a 500 RWHP Busha in it & still not running the Nitro yet ??
good mag that! i have a few of them;)

[Lou Girardin]

was the exhaust being dumped straight from the turbo, or was it using the stock/AM pipe out the back like there's nothing there? And where's the air being drawn from? Did you see?

I didn't get a close look. But it's hard to tell from stock.

[bugjuice]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-GSXR-GSX-R-1000-Turbo-System-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ4607367445QQcategoryZ10066QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

[cowpoos]

At full throttle a naturally aspirated engine still has a slight vacuum.
In contrast, a forced induction engine has a positive pressure in the intake, in this case 6 psi. Or nearly half as much again as N/A
In effect this increases the capacity of the engine, which is why motorsport has a multiplier formula to maintain parity with N/A engines.
In F1 it was reckoned that a turbo'ed 1.5 litre was equivalent to 3 litres N/A.
Which we all know was bullshit, it was more like 9 litres.

not quite correct...and naturally aspirated engine will always run a vacuum...and so will a forced induction engine in many cases...depends on how well the inlet and outlet flow air...just because a turbo is making 10psi at the manafold it doesn't mean its makin that at the valve...and besides psi is still very missleading...it should be cfpm as your engine is a air pump...the more air your engine flows at any given point in the rev range the more tourqe it will produce and multiplied by rpm will give you hp...

motorsport uses restricers alot rather than using equivelent asumptions now days...as the restricters....restricted cfpm...

[Marmoot]

not quite correct...and naturally aspirated engine will always run a vacuum...and so will a forced induction engine in many cases...depends on how well the inlet and outlet flow air...just because a turbo is making 10psi at the manafold it doesn't mean its makin that at the valve...and besides psi is still very missleading...it should be cfpm as your engine is a air pump...the more air your engine flows at any given point in the rev range the more tourqe it will produce and multiplied by rpm will give you hp...

*bump* :mellow:

....
...
..
........from now on I think I'll just stick to porn :wacko:

[ducatilover]

my dads fj is loosing vacum... :slap:

[cowpoos]

GIVEN THAT THE ATMOSPHERE WE ARE IN RIGHT NOW (IM AT SEA LEVEL) IS ABOUT 14.7 PSI ABS OR 0 GAUGE WE THEN SAY THAT AT 14.7ABS PSI OR 29.4 PSI GAUGE YOUVE EFFECTIVELY DOUBLED THE CAPACITY OF THE ENGINE , THIS IS CALCULATED WITH NO PREASURE DROP FROM ATMOSPHERE TO COMBUSTION CHAMBER BUT ITS BALL PARK .
HOPE ITS GOT A SHOW OFF VALVE FITTED PISHHHHH PISHHHHHHHH

but a N/A engine doesn't run a positive pressure at all......not even close to 14.7psi or 1 bar [which is atmospheric presure] and a forced induction engine would be havin to run bloody high manifold pressure to even get 14.7 psi at the valves...

[cowpoos]

As winja said.

As a rule of thumb, assuming 100% efficiency (i.e, ideal situation), for every 1 bar (= 16psi? not sure what the exchange rate is between psi and bar) of forced induction roughly equals to doubling the engine capacity.

Also, Spec-sheet compression ratio figures are compiled based on the volume of combustion chamber when piston is down against the volume of the chamber when piston is up. However, to see how forced-induction can affect the engine performance you will need to see the compression ratio from a different angle. If you compare the volume AND density of air (mixed with fuel) between piston-down and piston-up, it will not be the same figure anymore.
The volumes of those two situations may still be the same. But, the pressure (now twice the pressure from original engine) is now doubled and therefore I can say that compression-ratio for this engine has doubled. For example, what originally was 11:1 now has become 22:1. Yes, psi/bar figure relates to horsepower like steak to a horse.....if you like horse steak. And they actually do Horse steak in Asian countries where cows are expensive.
Disclaimer: this is only my way of explaining how denser air relates to higher horsepower, and is in no way an official way of explaining compression ratio. So you will not see any 22:1 compression ratio out there on any working bike engine.

Given that there will be engineering compromises (ignition retarding, lower compression, etc) and non-ideal situations (frictions, engine inefficiency, etc) then you might be looking at 60-75 percent increase instead of 100 percent.

So, at 18psi you can make the 1k will be quite like GSXR2100.
But, the power will not be 2.1 times the original.

That is if the engine does not blow up first. Those water jacket rupture can kill pistons very quickly.

If it is me, I wouldn't worry about the power so much. I would definitely get the Pishhh valve first! Turbo is all about fashion statement.

I had a supercharged toyota levin about 8yrs ago...it had the factory boost set at 8psi...when we modified it we replaced the supercharger altogether with a sprintex...and we ran 5psi... after a few fuelinjection tweaks [link computer replacment] it ran 243 hp at the front wheels...standard it was running 141hp.... gained over 100hp with less boost... more volume of air was the key...

[Momentum]

all this talk about turbos makes me want one :thud:

[WINJA]

but a N/A engine doesn't run a positive pressure at all......not even close to 14.7psi or 1 bar [which is atmospheric presure] and a forced induction engine would be havin to run bloody high manifold pressure to even get 14.7 psi at the valves...
YOU SHOULD AWAYS CONSIDER A VACUM TO BE NON EXISTENT IN THESE SITUATIONS , WE ARE AFTER ALL SITTING IN 1 ATMOSPHER OR 101KPA OR 1 BAR OR 14.7PSI ABS (NOT GAUGE).
DID YOU NOTE I SAID IT WAS BALLPARK AND IT DID NOT INCLUDE PREASURE DROP.
SO BEFORE YOU HIT THE STARTER WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY AT LEAST ONE CYLINDER WOULD HAVE 14.7PSI ABS INSIDE? AND WOULD THAT BE THE CASE WITH THE THROTTLE FULLY OPEN AT CRANKSPEED ? WHAT ABOUT FLAT OUT IN TOP WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN THEN AT BDC WITH THE INLET CLOSED AND THE EXHAUST VALVE SHUT WHAT WOULD THE PREASURE IN THE CYLINDER BE BEFORE THE UPSTROKE ???

[bugjuice]

i remember seeing a website of some guys who added fuel injection to a CBR250RR and then added a turbo. I've been searching for it for ages, and can't find it.

But anything can be turbo'd

[Momentum]

that would be one fast little 250
if you can find the link pm it to me.
is it harder to turbo a carb over injected?

[bugjuice]

if I find it, I'll post it, cos it's a good read. It explains all the issues they had, and how they overcame them. And various things like the inlet manifold went thru 2 or 3 revisions to improve on. And how they built the injection rail etc

To turbo a carb vs inj, I personally wouldn't know. The easier would be the injection I would have thought, cos you just remap the computer and let it figure out the rest, where as carbs have to be fiddled with to find the right mixture. Both can be done, it's just one is easier than the other.

[Lou Girardin]

not quite correct...and naturally aspirated engine will always run a vacuum...and so will a forced induction engine in many cases...depends on how well the inlet and outlet flow air...just because a turbo is making 10psi at the manafold it doesn't mean its makin that at the valve...and besides psi is still very missleading...it should be cfpm as your engine is a air pump...the more air your engine flows at any given point in the rev range the more tourqe it will produce and multiplied by rpm will give you hp...

motorsport uses restricers alot rather than using equivelent asumptions now days...as the restricters....restricted cfpm...

Sorry but rubbish. I built a supercharged MX 5 engine, at full boost/full throttle it had 7.5 psi at the manifold, at the end of which are the valves. The whole induction system from the throttle body is pressurised.
At less than full throttle it did run a vacuum, that's what forced induction engines do.

[Lou Girardin]

I've just had a close look at the Gixxer. It's one of the tidiest installations I've seen, fabrications look like factory items, the guy is very clever. You can't tell it's non-standard except for a cut-out in the fairing to clear the header and if you look closely you can see the turbo in the front fairing opening.
He says it goes just like a standard bike only with much more grunt.

[crash harry]

I suppose a lot of people have already seen this but hey...
Muzzys do a kit for the ZX-10R which supposedly gives around 250hp at 5psi. Now being advertising material I expect that to be absolute best case, so 214 at 6psi in an older gixxer sounds easy peasy...

Of course the graph at 28psi is more impressive... I wonder what fuel they're running it on? The kit doesn't seem to include any kind of decompression...

http://www.muzzys.com/ZX10/ZX10_Turbo/index.html

[DEATH_INC.]

torque was 105 lb/ft at 8000 rpm.
Sheet,that's not that much.....my old beast made 111 @ 7700 rpm running 15lbs.....810cc and 20 years older......Still be fun though :)

[Drew]

To turbo a carb vs inj, I personally wouldn't know. The easier would be the injection I would have thought, cos you just remap the computer and let it figure out the rest, where as carbs have to be fiddled with to find the right mixture. Both can be done, it's just one is easier than the other.
Not the case dude. An ecu remap is not as simple as it sounds, it's easier to do some maths and trick it by uping fuel rail preasure, and larger injectors. Then leave it thinking it's running standard.
But it is easy as pie to turbo a carb. Put the whole thing in a sealed box. Rejet it, and hey presto, job done.
Of course there are other tricks to both, but you get the idea. I have just secured a puffer for my bike, and there will be a running thread as to my progress. With pics too.(Have to use my flash new picky phone for summat.)

[Lou Girardin]

To turbo a carb vs inj, I personally wouldn't know. The easier would be the injection I would have thought,.

Whether it's easier or not, it needed; a fifth injector, Power commander to fill in the rest of the fuel map, high pressure fuel pump to feed it at full boost/revs.

[Finn]

Turbo GSX-R 1000 K4 on the dyno now.
6 lbs boost, all home fabricated.
Yee-friggin-hah.

So Lou, can I expect similar HP when you guys do magic on my bike? Granted, I didn't buy a turbo but how hard can it be?

[Lou Girardin]

Not hard at all. Just needs cubic dollars.
Would you like an HRC catalogue?

[WINJA]

Not hard at all. Just needs cubic dollars.
Would you like an HRC catalogue?
YOU CAN SPEND $50,000 ON A TURD BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ITS STILL A PIECE OF SHIT , MAKE FINN BUY A PROPER BIKE

[Finn]

YOU CAN SPEND $50,000 ON A TURD BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY ITS STILL A PIECE OF SHIT

Mate, that's what your mother was thinking about you when she contemplated an education for you.

[WINJA]

Mate, that's what your mother was thinking about you when she contemplated an education for you.
I ONLY POSTED TO HELP YOU OUT , YOUR JUST BEING A NASTY BITCH, KEEP DIGGING THAT HOLE

[Zapf]

not quite correct...and naturally aspirated engine will always run a vacuum...

u forgot to look at the ram air on your 750 Mr.Poos!