Blackbird
27th January 2006, 09:36
Not wanting to stir up the old debate about which tyres are best because it all depends on how you ride, what sort of bike you have and so on, I thought that you might be interested in some comments I've just received from a mate of mine in the UK who is a fellow Blackbird owner, as well as a 'blade. I use Avon Azaro "B" specification tyres and have been pretty happy with them, but asked for his experiences as he's a hard charger who spends a lot of time doing trackdays in the UK and at the Nurburgring. Heavy, fast bikes like 'birds, Hayabusas and ZX12 R's have tyre issues that lighter true sportbikes don't face so much. Incidentally, the current set of Azaros have lasted me just under 10000 km because a lot of the riding was on the Southern Cross endurance event. The previous set lasted for just under 8000 km.
Here's his comments, hope that they are of interest:
As you’ve already said, tyres are a very subjective subject, one mans poison and all that…. When I bought my last Bird, it was using Michelin Macadams which as I’m sure you know are hard compound touring tyres. The longevity was very impressive and grip at slow speeds wasn’t too bad – in fact I learnt to get my knee down with those tyres in January! However, they were a nightmare to get heat into and would slide away even on fast bends when they should have been up to temp, this I found quite scary(!) and as soon as the funds allowed they were replaced. Lifespan? Don’t know. Use again? No way!
Reading the UK Bird forum by this point, I plumped for a set of 020’s. These I found to be a great all rounder, except that they squared off very quickly and when pushed hard on a hot day (not many of those obviously) or on a track they would go very ‘squirmy’ as they started to deform and struggle to grip. Lifespan about 3500, would I use them again? No.
After this came a set of Avon Azaro B Spec ST’s. Just after I had these fitted, it really hissed down with rain and I was very impressed with how much confidence they gave in heavy rain. Next came a couple of track days and again they were very good indeed for a sports-touring tyre, not ‘bobbling up’ on the edges anything like as much as the 020’s did and plenty of grip. Later on, I went to the Nurburgring wearing a set of ST’s, and this is where things started to go wrong for me. Previously, when Jaws first tried them, he said that ST’s were great in the wet, great in the dry, but awful in damp conditions (he later went on to retract the last bit and say they were great all the time). This sounded odd when I read it and I dismissed it immediately. However, on the trip to the ‘Ring we seemed to be following a storm cloud across north Europe, all the way from Calais right up until about 20 miles from the Ring. We never got rained on, but the roads were varying degrees of damp – never fully wet with standing water, yet never fully dry either as we followed the black clouds in front of us. Getting to the point, I was soiling myself much of the time as it felt like I was riding on ice and was on the edge of my seat, concentrating like mad trying to feel what was going on beneath me as there was just no feedback and apparently no grip. When we neared the Ring, the roads dried up and I clearly remember the relief come over me as I could finally relax. Those last few miles went by very quickly as I made the most of being able to ride normally again! Very odd that I had that experience on them and it was identical to how Jaws had described originally. The mileage expectancy of the ST’s was just over 3000 miles. Use them again? Yes.
After this experience I tried the Avon SP’s and loved them right from the off. After bedding them in I rode some twisties and powering out of a corner I could really feel the tyre digging in, gripping and shooting me out of the exit. It gave a lot of confidence in opening up the throttle earlier than usual. The SP’s were great in the wet too, the softer compound heating up easily I guess and gripping well. They wore well, not rounding off until they were already past their best. Unfortunately they didn’t last very long, just over 2000 miles although this was pretty hard riding on every ride. These were replaced by the Vipers which were running well on the Bird, although again mileage wasn’t great. I guess a sports tyre isn’t going to last long with over 150bhp trying to rip it off the rim!
I’m still using Vipers now on the Blade and the mileage looks like it’s going to be better with less power being put down. I’ve got a spare set to use up in the garage, I’m hoping the new set will last the distance when we go to Europe in May. That trip will be about 2500miles, but it’ll be fast and frantic so fingers crossed that I might be able to make them stretch to a weekend at the Ring at the end of the trip!
With all the tyres I’ve used, I’ve never experienced any weaving due to the tread blocks or any other unusual wearing characteristics. The front tyres of the ST’s and the Vipers have triangulated, but this is probably down to doing trackdays and the right hand side of the tyre taking considerable abuse. Pete's Blackbird Spares used to use one of my old ST front tyres as a display item as there was absolutely no tread remaining on the right hand side and they had been worn within a millimetre of the edge. Must practice lefthanders more….!
Next time I get some tyres, I want to try something else. The Pirelli Diablos are meant to be a good track/road tyre so I might give them a go, either way I’ll do some investigating nearer the time. I haven’t tried Pilot Powers, although I’m sure that Blumeeni rates them highly, certainly above ST’s anyway. It’s always a gamble when trying new tyres isn’t it? You want to trust other people’s experiences but it’s easy to go back to what you know, also, I doubt that (apart from the Dunplops) there are many bad tyres out there these days.. I’ve found that a sports tyre works best for me, giving confidence in the dry and just as good as anything else in the wet although obviously the price to pay is in the longevity, but I’ll stick with them.
Hope the above isn’t too long winded, it’s just my experiences that’s all.
As for the weather in NZ, can’t wait to find out! Sue has been packed for about a week now, she really can’t wait to get over there again and there’s plenty of things that we’ll be doing that I haven’t done before which is great. Only 8 more sleeps for us and we’ll be on our way, looking forward to seeing you both again real soon!
Cheers,
Russ
Here's his comments, hope that they are of interest:
As you’ve already said, tyres are a very subjective subject, one mans poison and all that…. When I bought my last Bird, it was using Michelin Macadams which as I’m sure you know are hard compound touring tyres. The longevity was very impressive and grip at slow speeds wasn’t too bad – in fact I learnt to get my knee down with those tyres in January! However, they were a nightmare to get heat into and would slide away even on fast bends when they should have been up to temp, this I found quite scary(!) and as soon as the funds allowed they were replaced. Lifespan? Don’t know. Use again? No way!
Reading the UK Bird forum by this point, I plumped for a set of 020’s. These I found to be a great all rounder, except that they squared off very quickly and when pushed hard on a hot day (not many of those obviously) or on a track they would go very ‘squirmy’ as they started to deform and struggle to grip. Lifespan about 3500, would I use them again? No.
After this came a set of Avon Azaro B Spec ST’s. Just after I had these fitted, it really hissed down with rain and I was very impressed with how much confidence they gave in heavy rain. Next came a couple of track days and again they were very good indeed for a sports-touring tyre, not ‘bobbling up’ on the edges anything like as much as the 020’s did and plenty of grip. Later on, I went to the Nurburgring wearing a set of ST’s, and this is where things started to go wrong for me. Previously, when Jaws first tried them, he said that ST’s were great in the wet, great in the dry, but awful in damp conditions (he later went on to retract the last bit and say they were great all the time). This sounded odd when I read it and I dismissed it immediately. However, on the trip to the ‘Ring we seemed to be following a storm cloud across north Europe, all the way from Calais right up until about 20 miles from the Ring. We never got rained on, but the roads were varying degrees of damp – never fully wet with standing water, yet never fully dry either as we followed the black clouds in front of us. Getting to the point, I was soiling myself much of the time as it felt like I was riding on ice and was on the edge of my seat, concentrating like mad trying to feel what was going on beneath me as there was just no feedback and apparently no grip. When we neared the Ring, the roads dried up and I clearly remember the relief come over me as I could finally relax. Those last few miles went by very quickly as I made the most of being able to ride normally again! Very odd that I had that experience on them and it was identical to how Jaws had described originally. The mileage expectancy of the ST’s was just over 3000 miles. Use them again? Yes.
After this experience I tried the Avon SP’s and loved them right from the off. After bedding them in I rode some twisties and powering out of a corner I could really feel the tyre digging in, gripping and shooting me out of the exit. It gave a lot of confidence in opening up the throttle earlier than usual. The SP’s were great in the wet too, the softer compound heating up easily I guess and gripping well. They wore well, not rounding off until they were already past their best. Unfortunately they didn’t last very long, just over 2000 miles although this was pretty hard riding on every ride. These were replaced by the Vipers which were running well on the Bird, although again mileage wasn’t great. I guess a sports tyre isn’t going to last long with over 150bhp trying to rip it off the rim!
I’m still using Vipers now on the Blade and the mileage looks like it’s going to be better with less power being put down. I’ve got a spare set to use up in the garage, I’m hoping the new set will last the distance when we go to Europe in May. That trip will be about 2500miles, but it’ll be fast and frantic so fingers crossed that I might be able to make them stretch to a weekend at the Ring at the end of the trip!
With all the tyres I’ve used, I’ve never experienced any weaving due to the tread blocks or any other unusual wearing characteristics. The front tyres of the ST’s and the Vipers have triangulated, but this is probably down to doing trackdays and the right hand side of the tyre taking considerable abuse. Pete's Blackbird Spares used to use one of my old ST front tyres as a display item as there was absolutely no tread remaining on the right hand side and they had been worn within a millimetre of the edge. Must practice lefthanders more….!
Next time I get some tyres, I want to try something else. The Pirelli Diablos are meant to be a good track/road tyre so I might give them a go, either way I’ll do some investigating nearer the time. I haven’t tried Pilot Powers, although I’m sure that Blumeeni rates them highly, certainly above ST’s anyway. It’s always a gamble when trying new tyres isn’t it? You want to trust other people’s experiences but it’s easy to go back to what you know, also, I doubt that (apart from the Dunplops) there are many bad tyres out there these days.. I’ve found that a sports tyre works best for me, giving confidence in the dry and just as good as anything else in the wet although obviously the price to pay is in the longevity, but I’ll stick with them.
Hope the above isn’t too long winded, it’s just my experiences that’s all.
As for the weather in NZ, can’t wait to find out! Sue has been packed for about a week now, she really can’t wait to get over there again and there’s plenty of things that we’ll be doing that I haven’t done before which is great. Only 8 more sleeps for us and we’ll be on our way, looking forward to seeing you both again real soon!
Cheers,
Russ