Entrapment ?

[sedge]

OK... Paekak hill... Unmarked Hyundai GLS cruising at 30k on the corners, then instantly to 70k on the straights... Pissing me off... He's not over the lines like the slow guys usually are so I'm a little suspicious... Drive past at about 75 on the loooong straight at near the top... Cop... Get to the very top of the hill... cop waiting to ticket people...

Is that fair ?

Of course they miss the 5 fast wankers on the wrong side of the road coming up the Paekak side.

Seriously... Have they got nothing better to do ?... I can see the article in the local paper now... "12 speeding cars per hour on the wrong side of the road"... Well they wouldn't be if Mr Hyundai wasn't playing chicane.

When I get caught doing something wrong I'll take the punishment, but this ? I hope the cops doing it feel just a little dirty, coz in my book it's dishonest.

Angry Sedge.

The new "HP"

"If you aren't doing anything wrong you wont get stopped, well, that's not quite true, you can be stopped and the we'll try to find something wrong, or we'll just be cocks and make you do something... Repeat"

[madboy]

Did I read that right, pigs in a Hyandry? Bugger me if it is... plate's getting parked up for the weekend that's for sure.

But I'd love to see that pursuit... time to bring out the GN to give them a chance :lol:

[marty]

so what did you get done for?

[98tls]

there just pricks,simple...nothing better to do than try and fill the coffers.akin to a wasp,does nothing to benefit just piss people off.guys in gore had the right idea years ago,threw this basterd off the bridge with his poxy cop bike.im not a cop hater but when you get pulled over by these young ones with there attitude its like just fark off.

[Coyote]

It's just like HP cars waiting at the end of a passing lane on the crest of a hill. And Speed Camera vans 50m away from a row of bushes on the side of the road

[Skyryder]

If they are revinue collecting they see themselves as doing no wrong.

Skyryder

[madboy]

...but when you get pulled over by these young ones with there attitude its like just fark off.And that, sir, is why I specialise in farking off... the moment I see the f***ers.

[marty]

well sedge? what was your crime? how many bikes were stopped by this cop? what were thay being done for?

[Korea]

By all means, for the safety of the masses, uphold the law... but don't get all sneaky and underhanded about it...
Having said that, if I was a cop I might get quite a kick out of finding new and intuitive ways of catching ruthless, evil, scum-sucking criminals like your good selves.
...just thinking of their point of view. But I still think the dodgy-tactics suck...

[NotaGoth]

Not suprised to hear that. They do it up here. Except they go real real slow, then speed up to about 95kmph. Then they slow down again and move over to the left to give you room to pass. Then as you pass they speed up again. Very sneaky.

[Coyote]

Put fines on tailgating and shit like that, then we might see the police making the roads safer

[NotaGoth]

It's just like HP cars waiting at the end of a passing lane on the crest of a hill. And Speed Camera vans 50m away from a row of bushes on the side of the road

I noticed that on the way to Auckland. Speed Camera vans parked up just after passing lanes. On the way to Dargaville its actual cop cars sitting there waiting, tucked in just behind some trees. Where I live just down the road, there is a bridge heading north. You come up this little hill slightly to a stop sign. You quite often find a cop car tucked up someones driveway just out of sight waiting for those who "roll" through the stop sign. ;)

[marty]

Not suprised to hear that. They do it up here. Except they go real real slow, then speed up to about 95kmph. Then they slow down again and move over to the left to give you room to pass. Then as you pass they speed up again. Very sneaky.

how the fuck is that sneaky?

and what is wrong with ticketing people who roll through a stop sign? have you ever held onto someone who is gurgling blood because someone else 'rolled' through a stop sign?

[Korea]

I think that parking up driveways is kinda sneaky...

[madboy]

Gotta agree that the general concept of rolling a stop sign is not a good idea. Just like running red lights. But in saying that, there's plenty of stop signs that you can safely "roll" (and I do), and running red lights if done properly is not in itself dangerous either. I pass no judgement here.

Just think it's pretty sneaky posing in a hyundai... I mean, of all the cars? Jeez... Someone's gotta let me know when these cops are out on Paekak. All the times I've been through there since they started targeting it I've never seen one. I mean you hit a Commodore S and it's like see ya later fellas, but a Hyandri you'd hang round for some fun (plates excluded of course).

[Ixion]

how the fuck is that sneaky?

..

I would guess that what is happening is that the cop slows right down - say 40kph. So whoever is behind will try to pass. Once they start their passing manoevre, the cop speeds up to 95kph (as Ms Kitty said). So, you're overtaking him (cos he was doing 40kph). But now that you're committed he's sped up to 95kph. Only way you're going to get past with any safety (probably too late now to abort and pull back in) is to exceed the 100kph limit. Then he pings you. You wouldn't have tried to pass if he hadn't slowed right down in front of you. And if he hadn't sped up once you started to pass, you wouldn't have had to exceed the limit. That's sneaky by my book

[NotaGoth]

how the fuck is that sneaky?

and what is wrong with ticketing people who roll through a stop sign? have you ever held onto someone who is gurgling blood because someone else 'rolled' through a stop sign?

Calm down sheesh!!!!! :bash:

[marty]

nah. it's friday night and i'm stuck at home and i'm pissed. i'm normally a nice guy, but get a few bourbons in me....

[Scorpygirl]

OFF TOPIC - Entrapment was a good movie with Sean Connery set in KL. The pics of the Towers in KL were awesome. :not:

As you were!!! :apumpin:

[NotaGoth]

nah. it's friday night and i'm stuck at home and i'm pissed. i'm normally a nice guy, but get a few bourbons in me....

As I posted above.





Thankyou for that post Ixion. You couldn't have explained it any better, seen as it obviously needed a little more explaining. ;)

[98tls]

nah. it's friday night and i'm stuck at home and i'm pissed. i'm normally a nice guy, but get a few bourbons in me....
:wari: excellent,havin a few myself.lookin forward to an early start tommorow,going over the hill to the woodstock rally.

[marty]

sounds more like most people on here are guitly of impatience rather than entrapment to me:


ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. (from the Lectric Law Library)

[98tls]

cops are a good argument for the retractable plate holder that my mate is sending over from the states.

[madboy]

Well I guess putting a Hyandri in front of a bike is like putting dope in front of a druggie. Some things just can't be resisted. A very favourable opportunity in my books.

[inlinefour]

I thought you could get ticketed for going rather slow? If so, jot down the rego, time, date and location and ring the Police complaints authority. If what Im reading is correct, they are abusing one law in the attempt to make other road users break another law. IMO this is rather disgusting and just another reason why the NZ public has a poor opinion of them. Sounds like a case of Aunty Helen's revenue collecting muppets...:killingme

[marty]

well sedge? what was your crime? how many bikes were stopped by this cop? what were thay being done for?

..................well?

[NotaGoth]

I thought you could get ticketed for going rather slow


I thought that you can get ticketed for that too. Not sure what the limit as to how slow you can go is though.

[jimbo600]

I think that parking up driveways is kinda sneaky...

If I saw some HP on my private driveway I'd tell him to fuck off.

[Groins_NZ]

If I saw some HP on my private driveway I'd tell him to fuck off.

Before you put the sharped coach screw under his rear tyre?

[ManDownUnder]

Parking cops cars anywhere they're allowed to is fine.

Driving a decoy car along the way is fine.

The WAY they drive the decoy car is what I'd be looking at. Reckless use? Possible endagerment to other vehicles on the road?

What about their driving was dangerous or inconsiderate?

Spuddy, Nodman, Duynamytus ... can you guys confirm this sty;le of driving is ok? I mean - if I did it, I'd expect to be pulled over and breathalised, and if I was doing it on purpose... what rule(s) am I breaking?

MDU

[jimbo600]

Before you put the sharped coach screw under his rear tyre?

Bloody oath. Mind you I wouldn't want to fuck up a cop car if they had to respond to a serious incident. Oh but that's right HP don't do that.

Saw HP hiding in private driveway just past paraparaumu lights on my way home form TRTNR a few months back.

[White trash]

TRTNR

No such thing.

Me and my pitbike aint there.

[boomer]

sounds more like most people on here are guitly of impatience rather than entrapment to me:


ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. (from the Lectric Law Library)


Fukin Indian Givers!

[jimbo600]

No such thing.

Me and my pitbike aint there.

OK we'll call it DCDDSOTNR Dumb Cunts Doing Dumb Shit On Thurs Night Ride.

[White trash]

Can you please change your signature? It's giving me the shits. It was funny the first time I saw it but you pommy cunts have to learn to change your signatures and socks more often.

I swear I'm coming down there to show your good woman how a real man is.....

[jimbo600]

Can you please change your signature? It's giving me the shits. It was funny the first time I saw it but you pommy cunts have to learn to change your signatures and socks more often.

I swear I'm coming down there to show your good woman how a real man is.....

Bullshit? Aint nowt better than some hard Pommy lovin' "awreet petal your gonna geet some reet sorted tummy banana action now"

Chicks go for that man.

[Sniper]

there just pricks,simple...nothing better to do than try and fill the coffers.akin to a wasp,does nothing to benefit just piss people off.guys in gore had the right idea years ago,threw this basterd off the bridge with his poxy cop bike.im not a cop hater but when you get pulled over by these young ones with there attitude its like just fark off.

And its this precise attitude that makes them that why:blink:


I thought that you can get ticketed for that too. Not sure what the limit as to how slow you can go is though.
Its a speed decided by the officer at the time. Thats what I was told anyway

[Warr]

cops are a good argument for the retractable plate holder that my mate is sending over from the states.
Do you have a picture of it ???

[Lou Girardin]

well sedge? what was your crime? how many bikes were stopped by this cop? what were thay being done for?

That is hardly the point. Travelling so slowly as to induce someone to overtake and, hopefully commit an offence is entrapment. It'll just make us love them all the more.

[Jackrat]

It's just like HP cars waiting at the end of a passing lane on the crest of a hill. And Speed Camera vans 50m away from a row of bushes on the side of the road

That's an interesting one that is,bet you only think of it from your own perspective too.
This is mine.
Every day while I'm driving my truck for work I get passed in the last 20,15,10,5,0,-0 meters of passing lanes around the country.
most of the time I manage to pull hard to the left so these bastards can get by without killing either themself or on coming drivers,,,,or me.
But some times I have nowhere to go due to little things like cliff faces "Waiwera hill" or ditches "just about anywhere".
Now I'm waiting an watching for these pricks,some times I see them coming when their still 100 meters or more back and there's obviouly NO WAY their going to catch me before the passing lane runs out.
They never give a shit about on coming traffic,about me, or about you.No hang on,your on a bike they definatly don't give a shit about you.
BTW bikers do it as much as car drivers do.

If you travell north of Whangarei you'll eventualy come to some passing lanes about 5 kms south of Kawakawa and at the bottem of them "just after they run out" you'll see a stain in the center of the road.That stain got there just before xmas when a young guy drove his car under a milk tanker while trying to pass a car towing a boat.The car burst into flames an the young guy never got to see xmas.
Then the second day back at work after xmas and in the very same place an XR8 tried the same move with me.Well there's a bridge at the end of those lanes so I couldn't pull over for the wanker.I just jumped on my brakes one of which locked up an scared the shit out of me even more,a truck coming the other way saw what was happening and he pulled hard to his left so the wank in the car JUST got through the gap we'd created.In the process he drove over the same spot the young guy had died at before xmas.
I see the potentual for this kind of thing EVERYDAY on passing lanes,so if the cops are targeting them "GOOD".
As far as I'm concerned there should be a speed camera at the end of EVERY passing lane in the country.

[marty]

That is hardly the point. Travelling so slowly as to induce someone to overtake and, hopefully commit an offence is entrapment. It'll just make us love them all the more.

i think it is relevant lou - sedge has based this thread on a cop writing tickets out for what he beleives were entrapment matters, yet he has not backed up this belief with anything concrete. for all we know the cop was just up there sharing his donuts!

[Lou Girardin]

As far as I'm concerned there should be a speed camera at the end of EVERY passing lane in the country.

So that in the middle of an overtaking manouevre a driver sees the cop and brakes. Great fun for those following.
Alternatively, you have the people that use the entire length of the lanes to pass because they won't exceed 100 k's. Then frustration causes drivers to take risks.
Pinging people for normal, safe driving will not stop wankers like you mentioned from exiting this world.

[inlinefour]

i think it is relevant lou - sedge has based this thread on a cop writing tickets out for what he beleives were entrapment matters, yet he has not backed up this belief with anything concrete. for all we know the cop was just up there sharing his donuts!

With that sort of attitude I guess the Police will never do no wrong. Must be a nice bunch, just sitting there eating their donuts.... Tui ad - yea right!

Why is it everytime the ploddies do something underhanded, they just can't simply stand up and be honest about it? After all, I thought they was there to merely uphold the law. Sometimes I get the feeling they actually think they are the law. Should they not be leading by example?:eyepoke:

[Jackrat]

So that in the middle of an overtaking manouevre a driver sees the cop and brakes. Great fun for those following.
Alternatively, you have the people that use the entire length of the lanes to pass because they won't exceed 100 k's. Then frustration causes drivers to take risks.
Pinging people for normal, safe driving will not stop wankers like you mentioned from exiting this world.

None of which addresses people passing dangerously at the end of passing lanes.Often there are no other cars just one driver that can't wait another few kms or until I move over for him.
You see Lou it's been 34 years this year and I still havn't had a speeding ticket.I'm sure my driving can't be that much different to the average so I really don't have any sympathy for NORMAL people that get pinged.
Once or twice OK,but more than that then sorry I just don't care because their obviously just not that bright to begin with.
It's just another form of natural selection.
Better your normal people get pinged right off the road than continue to put other road users at risk.And don't give me any "it's not our fault,the cops/Gov't made us do it" Rubbish.
People are getting sick of that too.

[merv]

OK just done a trip to the lookout and back on the hill this morning and the only cop car I come up behind is a white Commodore rego CRA347 - plain clothes, even had proper wheel trims on it instead of the usual cop special with steel rims. He was making 45k or so around the corners measured on my GPS so not so bad and only crossed the centreline once - no probs to me it was only a white line and the Holden isn't a skinny car.

Anyway we both pull up at the lookout so I go over to talk to the boys - they are all dressed casual like in their cool shades and its an instructor teaching a young Asian boy. He decides to come over to look at my bike - instructor says "hey don't forget the keys and lock the car - gotta get into good habits". I had a discussion with them along the lines of how the jackass 70k limit isn't going to have any effect on those that are going to crash anyway and how it only penalises us dudes who don't need an externally imposed limit like that on such a windy road.

I didn't mind telling them how the boy was doing and how he mainly stayed on his side of the road.

I also asked about the Hyundai and got told no way have they got a car like that in our area. I know you are all still waiting for further explanation from Sedge. Instructor looked genuine when he said it. (Or Spud is lying with a straight face part of essential training?)

The problem in our area of course is having the Police college we always have the trainees out. Thursday night a zillion of them were stopping every vehicle heading North at the Plimmerton weigh station presumably doing the full suite of tests - luckily I was heading the other way at around 9.30pm.

Great weekend must get out on the bike again soon.

[sedge]

Hi Marty et al,

You're right of course, he could have been eating doughnuts at the top of the hill. I didn't get done for anything (I may still get a ticket in the mail, who knows ?)

They've recently lowered the speed limit on the hill to 70k and have had a regular over the top police presence there, it's pretty obvious from their tactics what sort of policing they are doing.

Unmarked cars, hiding in the bushes radaring, videoing people etc (all this information from police statements to the local media)

Mr Hyundai could have been on his way to a 478 (doughnut requires assistance) I guess we'll never know eh ?

If I wasn't such a suspicious person I would have shot past on a shorter straight then we'd have known for sure, sadly I value my license these days.

The point of the thread is "watch out on the Paekak hill !"

Oh yeah... Relax Marty, if a cop catches me doing something wrong I stop, but I don't like being goaded into that situation, and yes, we have all have a choice.

I expect the cops hiding in the bushes, to me that's more honest policing than this type of (alleged ;) ) behaviour.

So again, "watch out on the hill, fear the mighty Hyundai and the bushes are watching you"

Sedge.

*edit* Just read your post Merv... Good on ya for asking them... It was probably just Mr policeman on his way home avoiding the traffic like the rest of us on a Friday... Now I feel like a C*nt for being so paranoid ! *edit*

[Lou Girardin]

That's fine Jackrat, but what's happening in NZ is, contrary to all other road safety authorities that recommend completing an overtaking manouevre as quickly as possible, we're teaching people to dawdle for fear of exceeding a speed limit by 11 km/h. On a two lane road this is fatal.
Your examples show incompetence and stupidity are the cause not speeding.

[marty]

thanks sedge. i'm convinced it was a donut run...

[Fatjim]

Parking cops cars anywhere they're allowed to is fine.

Driving a decoy car along the way is fine.

The WAY they drive the decoy car is what I'd be looking at. Reckless use? Possible endagerment to other vehicles on the road?

What about their driving was dangerous or inconsiderate?

Spuddy, Nodman, Duynamytus ... can you guys confirm this sty;le of driving is ok? I mean - if I did it, I'd expect to be pulled over and breathalised, and if I was doing it on purpose... what rule(s) am I breaking?

MDU

According to the Land Transport road user rule 2004
"If a driver's speed, when driving, is such as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic, that driver must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, move the vehicle as far as practicable to the left side of the roadway when this is necessary to allow following traffic to pass."

And

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td>A driver must not pass or attempt to pass another vehicle moving in the same direction unless—</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="1">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="72">http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sd4images/tab.gif</td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="5">
</td> <td colspan="3" height="12">
</td> <td rowspan="5">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>(a)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifthe movement can be made with safety; and</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="1">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table><table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="72">http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sd4images/tab.gif</td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="5">
</td> <td colspan="3" height="12">
</td> <td rowspan="5">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>(b)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifthe movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; and</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="1">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table><table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="72">
</td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="5">
</td> <td colspan="3" height="12">
</td> <td rowspan="5">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>(c)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifsufficient clear road is visible to the driver for the passing movement to be completed without impeding or being likely to impede any possible opposing traffic; and</td> <td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3" height="1">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table><table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td width="72">http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sd4images/tab.gif</td><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="5">
</td> <td colspan="3" height="12">
</td> <td rowspan="5">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>
</td> <td>(d)http://www.legislation.govt.nz/sdimages/tab.gifuntil the passing movement is completed, the driver has a clear view of the road and any traffic on the road for at least 100 m in the direction in which the driver is travelling.
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

So blast him with the horn till he pulls over or you get 120m of vis.

[Sparky Bills]

Theres been heaps of mufties up there recently!
Its pissing me right off!