Paranoia re LANE SPLITTING??

[FROSTY]

Folks I might be being paranoid (they are out to get me I know they are)
It seems to me the Police have been asked to back off on us lane splitting.
Either its a case of--aww comeong guys they aint hurting anybody
Or-and I think more likely.--Give the buggers enough rope and they'll hang themselves.
By letting us "go for it" they can build up a file of bike crashes and complaints from "concerned drivers" that will give law ammendments some substance.

[bugjuice]

what gives you that idea, that they're backing off?
don't think it'll change too much tho. People who do it, still do it. The ones that don't, probably still won't. What changes?

[Fishy]

I've never been hassled by cops while lane splitting, do/did you get hassled a bit Frosty?

[ManDownUnder]

FROSTY, that's not been my observation although I never really hesitated about splitting anyway. Only ever been stopped once and the guy took me out of sight of the NW Motorway cameras and told me not to do it RIGHT in front of him.).

You may be right, but if they've backed off at all I personally think LTNZ has issued another edict like focussing on the 40kph+ over the limit people, or drink drivers or the like?

[Grahameeboy]

I never lane split.....never seen the point especially in NZ...too risky

[bugjuice]

it's the perks of 2 wheels, isn't it? not having to sit in traffic while you and the bike get hot, and you're late?
aside from parking almost where you please, and wheelies. And my bike looks sexy and goes fast, and makes my tummy go weeeeeeeeeeeee
that's why i like riding.

[Firefight]

Most of you will recall the incident that my co-worker and good mate was involved in late last year.

lhttp://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=20720&highlight=biker+donw+manuaku+on+rampast year.


he just got a copy of the file from the police complete with a ticket, I read it last night, some of the witness statments claim he was lane splitting.



F/F

[skelstar]

Accident on the motorway in Wgtn gave me cause to lane split. Stationary traffic and had to split past three cops in the traffic. No problems there. Had to stop because of a narrow gap just before first cop...guy in a ute was laughing cause he thought I was worried about the cop. Waved to him and filtered through anyway :).

[bugjuice]

the act of lane splitting, and how you lane split is different.

it seems to be frowned upon, but ignored if done carefully. If you bolt thru at 50kph+, then that's just being stupid. Just use your head.

I'm not going to stop lane splitting, but I'm not going to go any faster than 20kph over what the traffic is doing, up to 20 odd themselves. That's the way I've done it, I've passed heaps of cops, never been pulled. Can't see why it's a problem now.

[skelstar]

Here comes madboy...

To be honest, lane splitting scares me a bit. The traffic was practically stationary this morning which makes it easier. Was splitting at 30-40km/h I guess.

[sAsLEX]

I never lane split.....never seen the point especially in NZ...too risky

I do, allows me a much longer sleep in when I head in to uni!

[sAsLEX]

he just got a copy of the file from the police complete with a ticket

They really know how to kick you when your down dont they!

Was the ticket for lane splitting?? And if so was it based on eyewitness statements? Seems a bit shit after nearly dying to recieve a ticket, I am sure he would of learnt his lesson from that experience.

[Grahameeboy]

it's the perks of 2 wheels, isn't it? not having to sit in traffic while you and the bike get hot, and you're late?
aside from parking almost where you please, and wheelies. And my bike looks sexy and goes fast, and makes my tummy go weeeeeeeeeeeee
that's why i like riding.

I am a pussy....I still sit in the traffic cause....well cause I can plus I have responsibilities.......not worth the risk for a 20 minute trip home.....

I thought riding made your tummy bulge out.....well I think it was your tummy...

[madboy]

I always lanesplit, every day, for two years. Pass cop bikes, cop cars, marked and unmarked. It's weather conditions and mood that determine what speed I stop splitting at. Certainly I'm more cautious when splitting cops, but I still do it.

[Firefight]

They really know how to kick you when your down dont they....he would of learnt his lesson from that experience.



yep he did, both he and his wife are selling their bikes, he hold's no grudge against the Police(measure of the man he is) the ticket was for Careless Use, which is not a biggee.

Reading the File was a bit upsetting for them, it was complete with SCU photos and report.


F/F

[Grahameeboy]

I always lanesplit, every day, for two years. Pass cop bikes, cop cars, marked and unmarked. It's weather conditions and mood that determine what speed I stop splitting at. Certainly I'm more cautious when splitting cops, but I still do it.

Traffic seems better in Wellington...

[Karma]

I'll split all the time.

Passed a few cop cars along the way and never get any shit for it.

The biggest one I can think of is coming through Mission Bay on a bank holiday. Traffic is usually backed up all the way to Kelly Tarltons, and if they think I'm just gonna sit in the traffic when there's a nice empty median strip then they've got another thing coming.

The coppers will let you get away with almost anything if they think you're doing it safely. Lanesplit at 20kph and you'll be fine, split at 50+kph and you're asking for a ticket.

[Grahameeboy]

I'll split all the time.

Passed a few cop cars along the way and never get any shit for it.

The biggest one I can think of is coming through Mission Bay on a bank holiday. Traffic is usually backed up all the way to Kelly Tarltons, and if they think I'm just gonna sit in the traffic when there's a nice empty median strip then they've got another thing coming.

The coppers will let you get away with almost anything if they think you're doing it safely. Lanesplit at 20kph and you'll be fine, split at 50+kph and you're asking for a ticket.

But using the median strip is just normal overtaking rather than lane splitting isn't it cause I would use median strip.

[Karma]

Nah, don't think you're supposed to use it at all really, but that's just an example anyways...

Usually split at the lights along by Quay Street and that, just can't see the point in waiting when I can accellerate away from the traffic easier.

[Grahameeboy]

Nah, don't think you're supposed to use it at all really, but that's just an example anyways...



At least it is safer

[Edbear]

I usually only lane split when the traffic is real slow, I agree it's a bit dangerous at 50-60k. Unfortunately I'm usually in my truck when traffic's bad on the motorway and it's a bit of a problem trying to lane split in a 5 tonner! Often see bikes pass me on the right when I'm in the right hand lane, they use the wide verge.(Northern M/way). Seems a safe option, but apparently the law doesn't like it. I try to keep an eye on the mirrors and if I see a biker splitting, I'll move a bit to give him more room.

[skelstar]

Sooo many people moved out of my way this morning which was excellent. Stationary traffic and splitting would be very rare on the route I take each morning so it was a nice gesture by all cagers.

[madboy]

Coming the other way to Skelstar this morning, in the same banked up traffic with rubber neckers, exactly two cars moved out of my way. Despite the high beams, I'm still not sure anyone other than those two cars would have seen me before I passed them anyway.

These people who comment here about splitting at speeds, what do they mean by the speeds they're quoting? When they say 20km/h is okay and 50km/h is not, are they talking about the outright speed they're (biker) doing? The outright speed the traffic is doing? Or are they talking about the speed differential?

As I said, I base my assessments on weather (particularly wind), mood (do I feel like splitting or not) and speed differential. I still split when the traffic is doing 90k+, just not usually as aggressively as if they were doing say 50k. There are notable exceptions to my comments :chase:

As for Firefights mate, I don't know the facts at all in that case so are generalising in my comments - certainly not related to his mate's case, but I can see how a link can be drawn. It's not hard to see how one day I'll be splitting aggressively through slower traffic, pop into the lane and flow with the traffic when it speeds up, get taken out by some idiot not indicating or whatever and the witnesses will all be talking about how I was splitting past them five minutes before the accident. I reckon I'd be up for a ticket then too, and probably told I caused the accident.

[Fatjim]

I split at around 20-30 faster than the traffic is going, regardless of their speed. That seems to be a safe differential and gives everybody time so they're not suprised by my good looks.

[skelstar]

...and gives everybody time so they're not suprised by my good looks.
So thats about 20mins then?

[Blind spot]

I lane split daily on the greenhith rd past slow moving traffic and have on 3 occasions split past police caught in the lane who ignor me, thing is if you rip past at stupid speed you are asking for trouble.
On one occasion lat year there was an accident on the bridge stopping traffic completely, as i slowly went down the wrong side of the road over the double yellow lines i was followed by 3-4 other bikes who were just waiting, got to the head of the que near the accident and stopped and the police let us go slowly around the side.
If we had ripped down the wrong side at 50 k's i don't think we would have got far.

[Firefight]

get taken out by some idiot not indicating or whatever and the witnesses will all be talking about how I was splitting past them five minutes before the accident. I reckon I'd be up for a ticket then too, and probably told I caused the accident.


that's pretty much the way I was thinking about this incident, having read the witness statements, however, I am just happy that my mates still with us.

F/F

[bugjuice]

These people who comment here about splitting at speeds, what do they mean by the speeds they're quoting? When they say 20km/h is okay and 50km/h is not, are they talking about the outright speed they're (biker) doing? The outright speed the traffic is doing? Or are they talking about the speed differential?
i ride around 20-25kph when splitting. When the traffic gets to about 25ish, I merge in. When they're moving at less than 25, I still split past, but keeping around the 25ish mark.

I've had bikes come racing up behind me heaps. I just pull into the first gap I can without stopping or causing me hassle, and let them pass. Call me a nana if you want, but I'm still alive :bleh:

[KLOWN]

I have only lane ssplit twice but there is not much need to do this down here, I think the longest line of traffic i've seen is about 10 cars. I have lived in auckland most my life but only got my bike when i moved down here cause I had problems enough with people not seeing me in my bright orange mini let alone a small bike.

[justsomeguy]

There's nothing wrong with lanesplitting (I don't really care what the plod says - I'm talking from a safety perspective) if you know your bikes braking limits, have enough rpm to pull out and are able to watch the drivers eyes/heads as you split.

It is possible to safely lanesplit at pretty high speeds provided you are able to split continuously and not dart from gap to gap and if you are confident in what you're doing.

[bugjuice]

It is possible to safely lanesplit at pretty high speeds provided you are able to split continuously and not dart from gap to gap and if you are confident in what you're doing.
errr.... no it's not.
Drivers will dart into any gap they can see. Their process is something like:
1) ooo there's a gap in that lane, and it's moving
2) gonna get it
3) done it.

What's missing there?
Your version
1) yeah, splittin quick..
2) ooo a gap
3) SPLAT

You're moving at something like 20m p/s say. How fast is that? Now go find 20m of traffic. Go filter thru, and see how many seconds it takes to do 20m. Now how many cars would you pass at that speed, within a minute? Now, how many of those cars, are going to check their mirrors in that minute and see you? Not many, if any. And no, they aren't going to check their mirrors, cos they aren't thinking that a bike could be coming down the lane any second. They just don't. Fact.

Faster you go, the more ground you cover, the less likely a driver is going to see you before they move/switch lanes.

[Grahameeboy]

errr.... no it's not.
Drivers will dart into any gap they can see. Their process is something like:
1) ooo there's a gap in that lane, and it's moving
2) gonna get it
3) done it.

What's missing there?
Your version
1) yeah, splittin quick..
2) ooo a gap
3) SPLAT

You're moving at something like 20m p/s say. How fast is that? Now go find 20m of traffic. Go filter thru, and see how many seconds it takes to do 20m. Now how many cars would you pass at that speed, within a minute? Now, how many of those cars, are going to check their mirrors in that minute and see you? Not many, if any.

Faster you go, the more ground you cover, the less likely a driver is going to see you before they move/switch lanes.

Exactly why I don't lane split.....better to be late and get home......rather than be "justsomeguy".....sorry could not resist...just poetic licence nothing personal JSG

[justsomeguy]

errr.... no it's not.
Drivers will dart into any gap they can see. Their process is something like:
1) ooo there's a gap in that lane, and it's moving
2) gonna get it
3) done it.

What's missing there?
Your version
1) yeah, splittin quick..
2) ooo a gap
3) SPLAT

You're moving at something like 20m p/s say. How fast is that? Now go find 20m of traffic. Go filter thru, and see how many seconds it takes to do 20m. Now how many cars would you pass at that speed, within a minute? Now, how many of those cars, are going to check their mirrors in that minute and see you? Not many, if any. And no, they aren't going to check their mirrors, cos they aren't thinking that a bike could be coming down the lane any second. They just don't. Fact.

Faster you go, the more ground you cover, the less likely a driver is going to see you before they move/switch lanes.

You missed my bit about watching the drivers as you do it?? It's pretty easy to pick up on their behaviour through their side mirrors and looking into the cars with a bit of practice.

That's another reason why it's important to "split" between the gaps at a decent speed -so you're in and out of the gap before anything happens.

I dunno how you guys split (everyone does it their way). But I usually just stick to the centre line and only move myself from lane to lane about a meter depending on how close to the center line the car is each lane is. It's also better to split in the fast lane of the motorway as it's usually the slowest moving lane and is full - meaning no gaps for the cages.

It also depends how comfortable you feel being close to cars, trucks are the worst as they have bits that stick out on their trailers that break your mirrors.

It all comes with practice.

[justsomeguy]

Exactly why I don't lane split.....better to be late and get home......rather than be "justsomeguy".....sorry could not resist...just poetic licence nothing personal JSG

NO offence taken. :)

Grahameeboy: "..better to be late and get home..."

Be late??:blink:

I though lanesplitting was done for the kicks/rush not getting from point A-B:nono:

[bugjuice]

You missed my bit about watching the drivers as you do it?? It's pretty easy to pick up on their behaviour through their side mirrors and looking into the cars with a bit of practice.
no, I didn't. At speed, it doesn't matter what you do. A car can be traveling in a straight line, then a split second decision will easily see you on your sorry arse.

Also, at speed, you are going to see the driver, acknowledge (or basically trick yourself into thinking) that they see you and recognise you're there then decide that it's ok to pass them, twice (since you have one car either side) at speed (so, 16 cars every couple of seconds?), and still be confident that no one is going to cut across you? good luck..


That's another reason why it's important to "split" between the gaps at a decent speed -so you're in and out of the gap before anything happens.
utter utter utter bs. The faster you go, the less you're seen. The less you're seen, the higher the chances of being cut off. The faster you go, the longer it takes to stop. The faster you go, the harder you smack into the back/side of a car/van etc. The faster you go, the further you fly (that's the fun bit), and the harder you fall (that's the ouch bit). How the hell can you think that moving faster between stationary or slow moving vehicles that have no predictable pattern, is safe?


It also depends how comfortable you feel being close to cars, trucks are the worst as they have bits that stick out on their trailers that break your mirrors.

It all comes with practice.
if you're not comfortable doing it, then just don't. Start small if anything, but motorway splitting is really optimistic.

And practice? well..

[mstriumph]

the authorities are trying to introduce legislation against lane filtering and splitting over here ...... proposed 'rule 151A' :no:

there's been a fair amount of negative comment about it as you can see from the public submissions

http://www.ntc.gov.au/rfccommentsview.aspx?page=a023124034004500204

if there's any shred of commonsense left in the system it'll be abandoned .... but i have a nasty feeling that if it goes thru, there will be a fair few additional outlaw bikers about in sheer self-defense .......:confused: :Police:

[justsomeguy]

if you're not comfortable doing it, then just don't. Start small if anything, but motorway splitting is really optimistic.

And practice? well..

Hahahaha, you like dissagreeing huh??

I really like all your theory, the real worlds a bit diff sorry. Buggy no offence mate, but after reading your comments I know you're not a lanesplitter. :shutup:

As for me being optimistic by trying to split on the m'way - hehehe - ask around.

[madboy]

Lanesplitting on the mway is no different to anywhere else, in fact I do MORE lanesplitting on the mway cos the lanes are wider generally, and the traffic is moving slower.

The odds go up with the speed, and the proximity to areas where cars are prone to change lanes - particularly last minute. Like nearing offramps, areas where congestion builds up "Shit, I can save four car lengths if I suddenly duck into the left lane real fast without looking, then duck back into the fast lane four car lengths up". Hey, I still lanesplit pretty much everywhere on the mway, but time and place and all that.

Now Buggy, you must be one of the few bikers who check their mirrors while splitting. I used to never pass a biker until I was dead cert they'd seen me and either moved over or waved me thru. But I've been stuck behind so many that act like f***ing cage drivers now that I'm all good with cutting them up splitting. When you split your focus tends to be what's in front, as that is where the threat is, and you don't check your mirrors that often. And the frequency shrinks even more when you start splitting real quick. But the amount of bastards I see on bikes who NEVER seem to check their mirrors for kilometres on end, split slowly and then hog the centreline while they decide do they split, do they not... And then they check their mirrors, see a bike behind them, and go back to what they were doing - hogging the centre line jammed up the butt of the cars nearest to them!! It's like you just about have to pry the position from them to get past. Fine, they may think they're going fast. They may think they're taking all the risks they need to. No problem with that. I'm not running around with lights and sirens so I don't expect instant parting. But you'd think they could make some effort to let a faster moving bike through?

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty that do let you through, but there's just as many letting the side down.

[bugjuice]

Hahahaha, you like dissagreeing huh??

I really like all your theory, the real worlds a bit diff sorry. Buggy no offence mate, but after reading your comments I know you're not a lanesplitter. :shutup:

As for me being optimistic by trying to split on the m'way - hehehe - ask around.
no, I like to make sure newbies don't listen to advice like yours.
I split all the time. What's the point of being on a bike and sitting in traffic? But it's the rate that we seem to differ. It fuckin hurts to crash, so I'm just gonna take it easy. Doesn't seem to hurt you, so you go right ahead and knock yourself out ;)

All my advice I offer, is from what I see and do in your so-called real world. You think people don't switch lanes in a split second? I hope you never find out what happens when they do. I've seen it happen a couple of times, and that's a couple of times too many.
good luck mate.

Madboy, we've met, and played (true, not on the road yet), and I know you have some common sense knockin around in there sometimes, and a bit more experience under your belt. Plus, the added bonus of not being in Auckland :niceone:

[Lou Girardin]

Now I know I'm a riding God,:rolleyes: but I've never had a really close call when splitting (touch wood). If you know what to look for you can tell when a cager is thinking of grabbing a gap. You always leave an escape route too.

[justsomeguy]

no, I like to make sure newbies don't listen to advice like yours.

All my advice I offer, is from what I see and do in your so-called real world. You think people don't switch lanes in a split second? I hope you never find out what happens when they do. I've seen it happen a couple of times, and that's a couple of times too many.
good luck mate.


Yup, newbies and oldies - do what I do at your own risk. I'm only voicing my opinion not preaching anything. It works for me, it may not work for you.

Yeah, it's fun when cars change lanes suddenly. Only had it happen about 3 times a week, pretty much every week, pays to be awake when that happens.:Oops:

[skelstar]

I rarely split, but was in town yesterday (talking to a man about a Daytona) and had to ride out to the 'burbs in v-heavy 50km/h traffic. Got stuck down between a 18wheeler truck and a line of cars. A road cyclist was behind me and things just got uncomfortable all of a sudden. Obviously he could get through but I couldnt. A common problem?

[thehollowmen]

There are a couple of intersections in Dunedin where the lanes narrow so family sedans will touch mirrors. I'm not sure why they narrow like this but there are a few marked in my head that you'd get pinned in if you tried to split them.

Are we able to split in and out of cycle lanes?

[Phurrball]

You missed my bit about watching the drivers as you do it?? It's pretty easy to pick up on their behaviour through their side mirrors and looking into the cars with a bit of practice.

That's another reason why it's important to "split" between the gaps at a decent speed -so you're in and out of the gap before anything happens.

You can watch all the cages up ahead - pick up on cues...'easy', fine and dandy until you get an aberrant cage driver who does not give the cues you are expecting...ya know what they say about assumption...

'Decent' speed means less time to react - for you and any lane-chopping cagers.

Slow and steady with the RH indicator on works for me on the NW M/Way - so does minimal splitting near on/off ramps - only if cages are near as goddamit to stopped. They be dangerous places. (Kinda like those blank places on maps of old with the notation 'Here be dragons' = worth avoiding.)

Going nice and slow in a low gear means plenty of ability to accelerate fast (Or stop quickly) to get out of potential strife, and a nice, loud zorst note to wake the sleepy commuters from their comfortable, air-conditioned slumber...

I'm only a n00b, so I take it *really* easy on the spiltting. I do it 'cos it's a god-given advantage of being on a motorcycle. If it starts to feel wrong, I stop doing it.

Fast splitting is asking for trouble IMHO.

(I do try my best to monitor the mirrors and look for quicker splitters than I so that I may move - 'tis harder when you are more front focussed than normal, but if someone appears behind you 'tis your duty to let them past in a timely and safe fashion, making it very obvious that that's what you're doing...)

[madboy]

A road cyclist was behind me and things just got uncomfortable all of a sudden. Obviously he could get through but I couldnt. A common problem?Most cyclists are more aggressive than bikers. Let's face it, they zoom in and out of cars wearing only lycra!

[mstriumph]

Most cyclists are more aggressive than bikers. Let's face it, they zoom in and out of cars wearing only lycra!

:slap: i think they should be made to wear full-face helmets - an leathers, with armour --- and gloves --- and boots with sliders an stuff

c'MON all you "anti-t-shirt-an-jeans" brigade ........ or are you gonna tell me that spandex lycra [in a range of trendy, jewel-like colours ...... please avoid contaminating with suncreen preparations and the like and ALWAYS follow the manafacturer's laundry instructions] has some sorta 'anti-bingle' properties that magically deflect traffic when the wearer does something bloody stupid [which seems to be every few minutes??]:brick:

- just give me a minute - i'll be fine .......

[skelstar]

I coincidently stopped cycling when I started motorcycling (six months ago). Ill be a nervous wreck when I get back on a bicycle.

[thehollowmen]

] has some sorta 'anti-bingle' properties that magically deflect traffic when the wearer does something bloody stupid [which seems to be every few minutes??]

Why you've hit it on the head exactly! Nobody wants to touch a great big hairy guy wearing lycra. Especially if he's excited.
And everybody can see when he's excited. Yep, sir, everybody can see.

Can't go telling me that you'd want to touch him
That's the secret to successful lanesplitting : deflecting properties of lycra and a well placed kumara.

[Swoop]

i ride around 20-25kph when splitting. When the traffic gets to about 25ish, I merge in. When they're moving at less than 25, I still split past, but keeping around the 25ish mark.

I've had bikes come racing up behind me heaps. I just pull into the first gap I can without stopping or causing me hassle, and let them pass. Call me a nana if you want, but I'm still alive :bleh:
Saves me writing out my own post... all comments exactly the same!

[Phurrball]

I coincidently stopped cycling when I started motorcycling (six months ago). Ill be a nervous wreck when I get back on a bicycle.

Similar story here...I have hardly touched my treadlies since I moved to Auckers. Too fearful to go out on the road.

There be thermal issues on treadlies - hence the fantasic lycra. Can't say I like how it looks, but I do like how it works. The arse does not like long journeys on narrow, hard roadie saddles in normal shorts...

[jazbug5]

I've cycled for many years (largely in London.. I'm THAT crazy!), but have never understood the need to look like you're competing in the Tour De France. I did have some cycling pants for longer trips, but no crazy colours, thanks. Unless Dunlop et all really are going to give me shitloads of money to look like a 'person-stuffed-in-a-da-glo-condom' loon. And I never wore a helmet either... *shoot me now*