Cop never saw me but gave me a ticket!

[Girlie]

Hows about this one guys - while on holiday near the sleepy SI town of Palmerston (nr Oamaru)

Car overtakes me doing 120, then gets stuck behind a slow vehicle, I overtake him, he gets miffed at losing his place so he calls 555 and reports me. Cop stops me 2 minutes later, says 'Someone has reported you were driving dangerously' and hands me a ticket for not being able to see 100m of clear road!
I'm flabbergasted - surely the cops haven't got that bad yet - this is a Nazi state!

[onearmedbandit]

Welcome to the site.

That to me just seems out of order. You say the officer did not see you at all, did he claim to have witnessed the infringement? No? Then how can he determine that 'you could not see 100m of clear road'? Or is the road that you passed the cage driver on short (ie around or less than 100m)?

[Patrick]

More to this story me thinks...probably something like overtook the car on a blind corner or crest of hill perhaps? (Hence the 100metre clear viz throughout the entire overtaking move?).

[pritch]

At work we recently received a letter from the Police as a result of such a call. We identified the driver of the vehicle concerned and her supervisor presented her with the letter and a homily on safer driving. I thought that was reasonable in the circumstances.

Yours sounds a bit rugged.

[Patrick]

Hi Pritch... fair call, but when these driving complaints do come in, they will ask if anyone is near there in the first...if not, then they send out a traffic complaint form and subsequent letter. Unsure if this was a case of a cop in the right place at the time or wrong place at the time... more to the story?

[Scouse]

Hows about this one guys - while on holiday near the sleepy SI town of Palmerston (nr Oamaru)

Car overtakes me doing 120, then gets stuck behind a slow vehicle, I overtake him, he gets miffed at losing his place so he calls 555 and reports me. Cop stops me 2 minutes later, says 'Someone has reported you were driving dangerously' and hands me a ticket for not being able to see 100m of clear road!
I'm flabbergasted - surely the cops haven't got that bad yet - this is a Nazi state!

Welcome to the site Girlie If you were to get yourself a good Lawyer and fight this you would probably get of as what is the cop using as evidence if its just the cage driver then its a case of your word against his and any good lawyer will rip a civilian to peices in court

[thealmightytaco]

Welcome...

And it does sound very disturbing, Judge Dread like almost. A bit of a warning would have been more appropriate, but without proof of anything any old putz could call in anyone and get them a ticket. I'd write a letter to somebody.

[Girlie]

Went back to the cop to ask him to show me where it was so I could take a photo. He refused - 'it's not my job'
I went back and looked. It was definitely not a blind corner and I could see 4 or 500 metres - been driving 30 years no accidents, and I'm not that stupid. But it's my word against cage driver's.
Cop just smirked - obviously needed the ticket for his quota but it seems real dodgy to me - wonder if the driver was his buddy?

[Ixion]

Tis a try on. Write in, dispute, flatly deny. Point out that bikes have enormously better visibility than a car (higher, better placed on road,no pillars etc), and that no cage driver could possibly know how far *you* could see, and that just because the cage driver couldn't see 100m ahead doesn't mean that you, with your visibility advantages, couldn't. Make it plain you'll dispute the charge in court (even if you don't intend to). I doubt they'll go through with it, too easy for a lawyer to tear the only civilian witnesses to shreds (" Have you ever actually *ridden* a motorcycle , Mrs OldHag ?")

[kels]

Hi and welcome to the site :)
Write in and dispute the ticket....believe it or not they do take notice when you write in ...all the best.

[Macktheknife]

Hi Girlie, Definitely write in, this ticket is bogus. Just the letter should do it but take it to court if you have to, no judge in his right mind would uphold it.
BTW welcome to the madness that is KB

[inlinefour]

Contest it, deny it and say there is not a chance in hell of it actually happening. Don't worry about the lawyer as you just need to tell the judge these things. Its up to the Police to proove that you did it next and its that pathetic that they are even trying it on in the first place. Any Police officer who tries this sort of shyte should be repremanded by his/her superiors. :corn:

[merv]

Where is Spud when we need him to explain this? I didn't think the cops gave out ticket based purely on *555 calls and before they even write to people I thought they expected the complainant to fill out a complaint form. That is other than taking a call and looking out for you and if you break the law in front of their eyes then they can do something.

[JMemonic]

Ahh Pamerston, had a couple of tickets in that area one in a cage and one on the bike, the local cops really do seem to have attitude, the one in the cage was because I was passing a car doing variable speed with a huge build up of traffic behind it max speed of 80K's so I overtake as I do this clown speeds up so I hit the gas to complete overtaking and hit 120 get in front and start to reduce bang theres the cop, he gives me a ticket for 111k in 100k zone.

During my conversation I told him what had happened, he informs me well the reason he was the was because someone did 555 thing from a cell and complained about the driver I passed actions and driving to that point. He told me he figgured that people would pass this clown and it would be an easy way for him to get a few infringments in. Great, nice guy.

When I asked him two pertinant questions he got really defensive and basicly told me to f*$% off, what were the questions, 1 was he going to persue the driver that the inital complaint was made about given he now had two complaints about dangerious driving by this person and 2 could I please see his certificate of accuracy on the radar.

The other ticket the cop actually asked me what would happen if I hit a lampost at the speed I was going, this question raised an eyebrow, there were no lamposts in sight, to my left was a sandy beach to my right train tracks, sorry but I do think this area is where they send the rejects.

[Cookie]

Welcome!

Regarding the ticket - that's not cricket. I would challenge it.

[MikeL]

This is worrying. Assuming your version of the incident is accurate, to issue a ticket on the uncorroborated complaint of another road user is an affront to the principles of justice on which our legal system is supposedly based. Yet it is not the only instance I have heard of. All I can assume is that it is a cynical ploy resting on the assumption that a certain percentage of victims will be deterred from pursuing justice through the courts.
Write in, girlie, categorically deny the offence, state the facts, say you will defend it. If they refuse to drop it, I will be as flabbergasted as you were.

[madboy]

Girlie, welcome to the jungle.

I'm with the others, write in. Whether you choose to actually take it as far as a defended hearing is up to you - time, money all that must be considered before deciding just how far you want to go. But a letter and idle threats of taking it to a defended hearing don't cost you anything.

[Coyote]

Surely you're having us on? From what I understand from all this I could call up my old neighbour and say she's been driving at the speed of light mowing down Mum's with their prams and she'll get a ticket. That can't be right

[Str8 Jacket]

Welcome to the site.
If you do decide to write in to dispute the ticket, you will actually need to request a court hearing... If you don't then they will just "ignore" your letter and after 2 months the fine will be imposed into the court system where the court will start hounding you to pay the fine and will enforce it if you don't. Take a copy of the letter that you send to the police and if they dont reply and your fine is sent to the court system you will have the right to file a form 58 (they sent your fine to court without a re-hearing after you applied for one...) and you will have evidence. Good luck! Hopefully the police officer wont have a leg to stand on and your fine will be wiped, i'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

[NotaGoth]

My sister had the same problem in her cage. I was in the car with her at the time. Guy in front was driving extremely slow and was all over the road. She up and over took. Cop drove past and pinged her for being slightly over 100kmph. Cop turned around and pulled her up. Next thing you know the guy that my sister over took turned up and starts telling the cop that my sister was driving extremely dangerously and did not have 100metres of clear road in front of her. Which is utter crap. There is maybe approximately 3 or 400metres worth. We said to the cop that he could go back and have a look for himself in the same place where she over took the guy. But no he wouldn't. Took the guys word. Slapped her with a ticket. And she didn't have a leg to stand on. :pinch:

[Leong]

This sounds so wrong.... I'm with the others, write in and contest it... unless it ends up costing you too much time/money etc

[terbang]

We pay for a police force to police our roads and now we are getting second hand policing from the general public (unqualified) via the dob in *555. Its a sham and you should contest it and hopefully that Rozzer will be held accountable for dubious practise..
How many burglarys took place while this little game was being played out..?

[Ixion]

This is worrying. Assuming your version of the incident is accurate, to issue a ticket on the uncorroborated complaint of another road user is an affront to the principles of justice on which our legal system is supposedly based. Yet it is not the only instance I have heard of....

No, it is not, though it is pretty dodgy. Consider: If you saw a man burgling a house, and flagged down a police car and said to them "The guy in that car driving away , there, just burgled this house. Stop him and arrest him." The cop (assuming he did indeed take off after the alleged burgler, and not call a taxi) would be relying on your uncorroborated word. Of course, he'd need you to give evidence in court, as would this case. The police must often proceed on the basis of eyewitness evidence. What is dodgy about this case is that it calls for an informed opinion on the part of the witness, and the cop ahs no idea whether the witness is qualified to give such an opinion (ie a cager can't have any idea how far ahead a bike, - or truck- can see)
. And that is why this case would fall apart in court - unless the witness turns out to be an experienced motorcylist, which is unlikley

[Girlie]

Presumably if they caught the burglar they would have to find some evidence a) that there had been a burglary
b) fingerprints, stolen gear etc
to corroborate the eyewitness report
Also they'd have a written statement
Giving out a ticket on the say so of joe public is just not on:argh:

Thanks for all your support everyone - definitely fighting this one!

[Highlander]

One time in the Cage we got passed by another cage on a double yellow line, us and cars coming the other way had to take evasive action to avoid a head on. Reported it to the Police about 10 minutes later.
They tracked the guy down he said "don't remember" his word against mine unless the other cars were to also complain (clearly they didn't) end of story.

Contest it if you believe you were doing nothing wrong.

[Indoo]

Presumably if they caught the burglar they would have to find some evidence a) that there had been a burglary
b) fingerprints, stolen gear etc
to corroborate the eyewitness report
Also they'd have a written statement
Giving out a ticket on the say so of joe public is just not on:argh:

Thanks for all your support everyone - definitely fighting this one!

I would ignore Terbangs opinion, for obvious reasons.

However contest the ticket, and take photos of the exact location where you overtook. It sounds like bollocks to me, or we are not being told the entire story.

[terbang]

Play nice there Indoo. Opinions are just that, opinions. So why the personal attacks...? Too close to the truth..?

[Indoo]

Nah prolly cos your so far from the truth.

Btw which company do you fly for?

[cowpoos]

welcome to the site girlie...nice to see another wairarapa biker on here...after all we a genrally well known that wairarapa bikers are the best lookin in NZ :spudbooge

anyway...thats crap...fight it and go shit on the cops lawn...and take out his letter box.... eye for a eye :rockon:

[Scouse]

Btw which company do you fly for?

Terbangs employers are your buissiness because.....?

[Indoo]

Terbangs employers are your buissiness because.....?

Because he makes so much of an issue over what I happen to do for a job.

"Like front line troops in a war they are not selected for intelligence or any sort of individual/origional thought and there are countless stories of police reverting to basic and primitive tribal type behaviour (thats the type they attract). Here we have the gang in blue being a bunch of guys of very average intelligence, elevated to a status far in excess of thier abilities (because of which side of the law they are on) and we expect discretion..Yeah Right"

Apparently all the bikers on this site who happen to be cops are nothing more than illiterate thugs. It just made me curious given that I'm such a primate who has been through law school what esteemed position in society he holds that makes him qualified to judge people.

I'm just wondering what puts him in that position is all.

[Patrick]

Hi Girlie, welcome to the site by the way...see my reply #5...

Write in and explain your situation as described. Request full disclosure, including the copy of the ticket, front and rear.
Request information/copy of the phone call even but do it soon as they only hold them for a month.
Request copy of officers notebook regarding this matter, if there are any notes...he should have noted your protests at the time if they are not on the ticket already. If not, Why???
In your letter, advise that you asked for details of the offence (location etc) but he wouldn't tell ya. Why?
Ask if the car/complaint is from another cop...(could have been CIB/Youth Aid and probably don't know how to write out tickets...:rofl: )

The later three points will mean the file will be sent to the cop himself as the Bureau does not have access to these points.

I find it hard to see why they would write out a ticket on the spot without full information/offence location detail, checking out the scene themselves since it was nearby etc, unless you coughed to it at the time?

Good luck. Does sound like shite tho...or perhaps this is just yet another cop bashing site?:nya:

[MikeL]

No, it is not, though it is pretty dodgy. Consider: If you saw a man burgling a house, and flagged down a police car and said to them "The guy in that car driving away , there, just burgled this house. Stop him and arrest him." The cop (assuming he did indeed take off after the alleged burgler, and not call a taxi) would be relying on your uncorroborated word. Of course, he'd need you to give evidence in court, as would this case. The police must often proceed on the basis of eyewitness evidence.

I intended "uncorroborated complaint" to have a somewhat different meaning from "eyewitness evidence". In the latter case presumably the police could independently confirm that an offence had been committed, i.e. by contacting the householder. In Girlie's case the question of whether an actual offence has been committed is, as you say, a matter of opinion. My point is that for justice to be done a court hearing is necessary in which the complainant's and the defendant's versions will be weighed up. Without independent witnesses the chances of a prosecution succeeding must be slim (provided the defendant has a lawyer who is not totally incompetent). Yet surely some people must be frightened into paying up through ignorance of their rights or deterred from pursuing the matter because of the costs involved?

[Patrick]

See my last post... all for free...including the freepost address - no stamp needed!

[marty]

Terbangs employers are your buissiness because.....?

probably as much business as what business it is yours that he asks that question.

[Scouse]

Because he makes so much of an issue over what I happen to do for a job.

"Like front line troops in a war they are not selected for intelligence or any sort of individual/origional thought and there are countless stories of police reverting to basic and primitive tribal type behaviour (thats the type they attract). Here we have the gang in blue being a bunch of guys of very average intelligence, elevated to a status far in excess of thier abilities (because of which side of the law they are on) and we expect discretion..Yeah Right"

Apparently all the bikers on this site who happen to be cops are nothing more than illiterate thugs. It just made me curious given that I'm such a primate who has been through law school what esteemed position in society he holds that makes him qualified to judge people.

I'm just wondering what puts him in that position is all.
Knowing who his employer is wont help you with that Indoo

[Scouse]

probably as much business as what business it is yours that he asks that question.
Marty go find yourself another drunk that you can impress with your Ex-cop Status

[MikeL]

I presume then that in such cases the full details of the informant are recorded and they are told that they may be required to give evidence in court?
In a subsequent court case does the defendant have the right to know the name of the informant?

[Pixie]

Tell them to piss off.
Lou Girardin posted how he was stopped by a cop after a *555 call (couldn't find the post)
Allegedly for passing on the left of the complianant's van.He said yes ... on a passing lane.
Cop looks pissed off and says "he didn't tell us that"

Ask for the proof.Don't pay up

[Zed]

A lot of us have got positive stories to tell about getting off fines in those kind of freak circumstances, such is life. Contend it in a letter firstly and you may get let off without having to spend heaps of time & $$ in court or whateva.

And yes, inevitably i believe we will become a police state of sorts in NZ.

Welcome to KB too! :done:

[terbang]

Nah prolly cos your so far from the truth.

Btw which company do you fly for?

I am a contractor (Globally) so its whoever pays the highest price.. Mainly Rich Arabs..

Bottom line there Indoo I just don't like traffic police much at all and have little respect (need I really state it) for thier methods, its nothing personal there to a fellow biker .

[Holy Roller]

And yes, inevitably i believe we will become a police state of sorts in NZ.


led by the dictatorship of aunty Helen. Democracy is slowly slipping away and who really cares?

[Holy Roller]

Years ago had a complaint laid against me about the squeeling of tyres going around a corner on a double passing lane passing another car. got off that one as the complaint was, the squeeling of tyres, not the fact that the car was in a sideways drift at the time.

[Warr]

Looks like a good place to see who knows where you can get number plate hinges. :blip:
Then problem may not exist.
Preferably one that you can control up and down.... or even rotate then you could have a personalised message for someone P...ing you off behind

[spudchucka]

Where is Spud when we need him to explain this? I didn't think the cops gave out ticket based purely on *555 calls and before they even write to people I thought they expected the complainant to fill out a complaint form. That is other than taking a call and looking out for you and if you break the law in front of their eyes then they can do something.
If there is a formal complaint coming from the informant then a ticket may well be issued. If the informant doesn't make a formal complaint or isn't willing to give evidence then the driver would probably just get pulled over and spoken to about the alleged incident with no further action to follow.

[Fatjim]

welcome to the site girlie...nice to see another wairarapa biker on here...after all we a genrally well known that wairarapa bikers are the best lookin in NZ :spudbooge


At least the sheep think so.

[loosebruce]

Dunno if it's been said, but i'm fairly sure that on 555 calls and the likes there generallyhas to be more than one witness to make a case out of it, one time me an a mate walking home back in welly saw some clown hooing up my road took a corner that he couldn't see around on the wrong side of the orad and carried on giving it the berries up the street, i rang the 5-0 straight away, and they asked if anyone else witnessed it to make it easier to catch up and fine the driver, which they did, seeing we got the plate n all.

I'm certain if you wrote in and explained in full exactly what happened and that you intend to take the matter further to a lawyer and then to court, the fine would be dropped, i still have a lot of respect for cops but it does seem they are under some pressure to make quota and are handing out B/S tickets with most people muibling and grumbling about them but not doing anything about it other than paying for it. Dont just roll over and take it.
I got fined for Reckless by a young HP snake, he saw me pull a pathetic (by my standards) stoppie coming of the m/way at a roundabout and then "filtered" through some traffic, only to turn around and see an HP car glued to my arse, fuck knows where he came from :brick: but he was all I saw you almost crash at the roundabout, dont try and run from me matey, i could fine you for dangerous and lock you up for the day, what a tool.
I though lots and decided that reckless was bullshit and wrote in saying that i think the reckless charge was unfair and that if dropped to careless i would be inclined to plead guilty, as what i did was a bit careless and have no problem taking the hit for it, and they did drop it.

All I'm saying is dont just rant about it then take it on the chin, if it's bullshit, say so to the right people, there are some reasonable cops out there.

[marty]

Marty go find yourself another drunk that you can impress with your Ex-cop Status


that was 300 threads ago. time to move on.

[jonbuoy]

Since when was joe public a qualified HWP officer? I can't believe thats legal, if some joker comes up to you in the street and gives you a punch unless youv'e got an independant witness who saw it happen and can clearly identify the assailant you don't have a hope of a prosecution. I can understand them issuing a letter as a caution but thats all.

So if I want to stitch someone up all I have to do is phone 555 and say they overtook me on a blind bend and my mate in the passenger seat saw it too - no evidence, then the police will issue a ticket?? - Thats outrageous and surely not true. Too open to abuse.

[scumdog]

We pay for a police force to police our roads and now we are getting second hand policing from the general public (unqualified) via the dob in *555. Its a sham and you should contest it and hopefully that Rozzer will be held accountable for dubious practise..
How many burglarys took place while this little game was being played out..?

At last count it was only five burglaries.......

Girlie, on the assumption you are telling the whole story truthfully I would defend the charge.
Ask for disclosure, that way you'll find out how much substance the *555 complaint has.

[Lou Girardin]

Write in as has been suggested, but be prepared to go to court. The witness will probably not show up.
I'd also approach the media about enforcement based on untrained observers complaints.

[*sic]

challenge, they'll back down. you save bling

[oldrider]

Hows about this one guys - while on holiday near the sleepy SI town of Palmerston (nr Oamaru)

Car overtakes me doing 120, then gets stuck behind a slow vehicle, I overtake him, he gets miffed at losing his place so he calls 555 and reports me. Cop stops me 2 minutes later, says 'Someone has reported you were driving dangerously' and hands me a ticket for not being able to see 100m of clear road!
I'm flabbergasted - surely the cops haven't got that bad yet - this is a Nazi state!
This was first posted on 5 Feb but happened while you were on holiday in SI!

When was that and what have you done about it, other than post on here?

This is in my "home" riding territory, that means I have a vested interest in the outcome. :eek5:

Please keep us informed about your actions and the outcomes.

Too many threads on this forum are inconclusive. :spudwhat: Good luck with it. Cheers John.

[Sniper]

Welcome and bugger. I would challenge it and just say that there was another bike. Play the blame game.

[JWALKER]

no offence to all cops down there, but some of them are a bit whack. i had a friend who was driving down there and she pretty much got hounded by a couple of policeman, just cause she was in a high powered car, they tailgated her for about f**king 100km, before they pulled her over and gave her a ticket for 106km in a 100km zone

[scumdog]

no offence to all cops down there, but some of them are a bit whack. i had a friend who was driving down there and she pretty much got hounded by a couple of policeman, just cause she was in a high powered car, they tailgated her for about f**king 100km, before they pulled her over and gave her a ticket for 106km in a 100km zone

Must be a regional thing, just been to Rangiora (about 900km all up) and back in a vehicle that is "in your face" in appearance/noise and stance, went past a fair few rozzers both H.P. and regular, never got followed or pulled over - and most of them don't know me and a shitload that do know me do not know I own this vehicle.
Maybe I'm just lucky?????????

[Grahameeboy]

Must be a regional thing, just been to Rangiora (about 900km all up) and back in a vehicle that is "in your face" in appearance/noise and stance, went past a fair few rozzers both H.P. and regular, never got followed or pulled over - and most of them don't know me and a shitload that do know me do not know I own this vehicle.
Maybe I'm just lucky?????????

Guess luck has a lot to do with it eh......just like life itself.......we generally only hear of bad luck which is really just a drop in ocean compared with good things..............cue Lou!!

[oldrider]

Most of the cops down here are all right and just doing a job like every one else!

Have to admit it though the few tossers among them seem to come from another planet. (Some say they come here by ferry)

They are really prise :tugger: wankers. Cheers John.

[JWALKER]

Most of the cops down here are all right and just doing a job like every one else!

Have to admit it though the few tossers among them seem to come from another planet. (Some say they come here by ferry)

They are really prise :tugger: wankers. Cheers John.

yeah, its always the minority, just ticks me off the abuse of power

[Momentum]

Must be a regional thing, just been to Rangiora (about 900km all up) and back in a vehicle that is "in your face" in appearance/noise and stance, went past a fair few rozzers both H.P. and regular, never got followed or pulled over - and most of them don't know me and a shitload that do know me do not know I own this vehicle.
Maybe I'm just lucky?????????

maybe you look alot older than most of us :wacko:
trying being young and in a moded car.

[scumdog]

maybe you look alot older than most of us :wacko:
trying being young and in a moded car.

I AM "alot older":rolleyes:

And I've had the vehicle for 32 years, been looking the same as now since 1985, in the whole time I've had it I've beeen pulled over no more than 5 - 6 times, - maybe I drive in a sensible manner????:whistle:

Don't need to worry about 'trying to look young, it's too late for that!!:wacko:

[Shadows]

I was watching Motorway Patrol last night, they issued some chick in a Rover a ticket for not driving within her lane or something, all based on *555 hearsay. I couldn't believe it and I'd definately not be paying it if I was her.