United NZ & Oz?

[bugjuice]

what do ya reckon?

[James Deuce]

It's more of a certainty than Kiwis will ever admit or expect. We'd be stupid to fight it to. All we need to do is stop those stupid Aussies from sucking up to the US first.

[Quasievil]

in currency possibly ,as in a one nation identity, it will never happen, not ever

[bugjuice]

personally, I have no idea.
on one hand, the single currency could have a lot of pro's. As one identity, nah, don't think that'd work. I guess it'd be more like a 'europe' sort of affair. I haven't voted myself yet..

[Hitcher]

Australia's constitution allows for New Zealand to become another state of their Commonwealth.

New Zealand, however, doesn't have a constitution. But we share the same head of state and there are numerous other similarities between the two countries. I guess political union could be one way of getting them to accept our apples...

Let's see what happens when the exchange rate reaches 1:1.

[Quasievil]

Well I reckon the Commonwealth similarity needs to be put to rest with NZ becoming a republic asap.
As for joining up with aussy the implications would be to detailed to even contemplate, ie treaty issues, trade agreements, stances on foreign politics for example the nuclear debate and NZ refusal to allow US ships into its ports.
Surely if we were to join it would mean one government one law etc, who would the prime minister be an aussy or a NZr the complications go on and on and on, we aint even yet mentioned the flag stuff.

Anyway I dont want it to happen and would be the first to demonstrate and crack some heads over the issue:stoogie:

[onearmedbandit]

Without taking into account political reasons I believe we should retain our independence from Australia. We are a nation with our own well established identity (who cares if some think we are a part of Australia already) that I don't think needs to amalgamate with another to strengthen our standing in the world.

And what would we do with all our aussie jokes?

And feesh and cheeps? (or fush and chups)

[Shadows]

If it means we could ditch Aunty Helen I'm keen as.
It would definately dilute the South Auckland / Porirua beneficiary vote which would be good for the state as a whole.
A bit of proper government would suit me fine. I'm sick to death of the PC Greeny Nanny State bullshit we have to put up with. :brick:
And a stronger currency would mean cheaper bikes! :2thumbsup

If nothing changes we'll just become another poor pacific island nation within our childrens' lifetimes (if not sooner) where absolutely everything revolves around a stupid little game with an egg-shaped ball and nothing else matters if accepted that it exists at all.

Oh shit maybe its too late!!!!!!!!

[mstriumph]

DON'T DO IT!!!

'cause once they've sucked you in, you'll never escape!!
[west australia has been yearning to sucede from the rest of aus. for years ..........:no: ]

[kro]

According to the Australian constitution thingymabob, NZ has been a state of Australia since the early 1900's, but it was never made official, because NZ never ratified the document, so we stay as Kiwis for now. I Think its coming though, which is a pity, because we already have a huge populace of wombats, I read about them daily in these forums

[SPman]

No thats Turkeys - its our part to beat Australia to Amerikanisation........

[Storm]

Bugger off, its worked well enough for years the way it is, so if it aint broke, dont play with it

[JWALKER]

i agree with oam, we are our own nation, you real think the aussies want to deal with our shit and us deal with theirs aswell

[MisterD]

I can see some plusses from our side (jetison some of the excess freeloaders (aka MPs) that we have to support, get the Aussies to stump up for some half decent infrastructure etc), but I really can't see what's in it for them. Especially while the whole Waitangi bollocks is still ongoing. Would you invest in a company with such an uncertain liability on the books?

Would we have to have pink stars on the flag?

[MSTRS]

Go for it. We could then settle all 'early settlers' claims by giving them Tasmania....

[Sniper]

Im not too clued up on the economy side of things, but I know the military benefits if we do merge. Wouldn't be a bad thing

[Dadpole]

but I know the military benefits if we do merge. Wouldn't be a bad thing

Like "Where America goes, we go" sort of thing. PT

[Colapop]

Militarily the problems would lie with the Aussies propensity to kiss America's ass and with our liking not to spend money on our military. It would have benefits to have a better policed economic zone.
As for currency, it'd be a good thing, so would a global single currency unit. Economically if we (OZ and NZ) operated with closer economic links and less trade restriction (CER - hasn't that supposedly been done) then not only would NZ exporters have better access to Ozzie markets but Ozzie manufacturers wouldn't have to import Maori's to work in their factories! Seriously costs are better here for manufacturers just that the export cost is so great.
Identity should ever change although I wonder how long before an 'indeginous' culture tries to claim part of Bondi beach? Exported land wars? :wait:

[ManDownUnder]

We'd need to have it all written down of course - in the treaty of warrangatta or something.

Fair crack though - it'd give both countries an opportunity to resolve all land claims and similar issues as part of the process.

"We will be one nation in 5 years - you have to sort out all your grievances and shit like that before then - GO!"

[Grahameeboy]

Why would joining change our Identity.....Brits are still Brits despite EU......French are still well French.......

I reckon it is a good thing as we need the money.......there is not as much difference between NZ & Aussie compared with the issues of EU....may bring in compulsory Insurance which is a good thing.

[onearmedbandit]

Correct if I'm wrong but despite France etc belonging to the EU they still are independent countries. What is being suggested here is NZ become another state of Australia. So we will no longer have our own government except a state govt overseen by the federal govt in OZ.

[bugjuice]

some european countries have gone with the Euro.. not sure how that's working out, and if a can of coke is the same in all countries so to speak.

Slightly OT, the UK government spent millions of pounds to convince the Brits to buy into the Euro. So much so, that it was uneconomic not to. They wasted a lot of money with that 'stunt'. Fuckers.

Not all european countries want the Euro. But the ones that have, some still have duel currencies, which I don't really understand how confusing that would be

[Hitcher]

Which European Union member states have dual currencies?

[rasty]

It's more of a certainty than Kiwis will ever admit or expect. We'd be stupid to fight it to. All we need to do is stop those stupid Aussies from sucking up to the US first.

What Jim2 says.

[bugjuice]

for 50 points...
Can't remember now. Spain..?
May be they don't any more, could have been just the transition period, but I remember it being a long time for dual currencies

[Matt Bleck]

Mate, Aussies and the treaty of Waitangi......I can't see it.

[Lou Girardin]

The sooner the better. It's the only thing that'll stop our slide into third world status.

[Finn]

Mate, Aussies and the treaty of Waitangi......I can't see it.

Exactly. Here's our opportunity to rid ourselves of the treaty.

[Dadpole]

The sooner the better. It's the only thing that'll stop our slide into third world status.

You mean we're not already?
A whole generation of people at subsistance level
A class of wealthy who keep getting richer
petty laws being constantly introduced to "keep us safe"
Auntie helen harping on that "the media is free, but there are some things they should not publish (political cartoons)
The suggested "big sister" policy that would test your childrens physical, mental and - presumably - political health.

mumble mumble mumble

[WRT]

The French still had dual currency when I was there in (?) '02. Thats gone now, but I heard the Swiss were getting on the band wagon, anyone know if they have the Swiss Franc and the Euro running? Google will know, but I really cant be assed - its just about lunchtime and soon I wont be getting paid to be on here.

As for us and Oz combining - has anyone considered whether the Maoris will get the same treatment as the Aboriginies???

[Hitcher]

The Confederation of Helvetia (Switzerland) is not part of the EU.

[Skyryder]

Won't happen. There may be trade, financial deals etc. but New Zealanders will never give up their independence. As for the political differences Australians are required by law to vote. We are not. That's just one off the top of my head. There are many in NZ who feel that Wellington is 'too' far away let alone Cambera and the ACT. Besides..............why would Australia want us?? I can see no benifit in any shape or form.

Skyryder

[Biff]

Which European Union member states have dual currencies?

Legal tender? Then only Lichtenstein. Swiss Francs and Euros. With the Swiss Franc being the 'official' currency.

[parsley]

I'm sick to death of the PC Greeny Nanny State bullshit we have to put up with. :brick:
You've never lived in Australia then. I lived there before moving to NZ and I was amazed at how bureaucratic it is there.

[kro]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear the first time.
http://www.oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/as01000_.html

Read section six, yes it is referring to the commonwealth of Australia, but this is not the " commonwealth" we know as including UK, Aus NZ etc etc.

According to Australia, we have been a state of Oz since the constitution was drafted in the early 1900's, NZ simply has not ratified its validity as yet, thus retaining our independence from them.

[Jackrat]

The United States of Australia or USA for short,sounds good to me.
I'm sure Helen will enjoy being prime minister of Australia as well.
Hey a win win situation really.
Choise bro,,,,,aye Dave<_<

[SPORK]

Not if I can fucking help it.

[Hitcher]

Legal tender? Then only Lichtenstein. Swiss Francs and Euros. With the Swiss Franc being the 'official' currency.
You've only forgotten Sterling and the Swedish Krona. But I suppose they're not really major currencies in the grander scheme of things...

[geoffm]

Won't happen. What is in it for Australia that they can't aready have for nothiing now?
G

[kro]

Won't happen. What is in it for Australia that they can't aready have for nothiing now?
G

Chaste women?, virgin sheep?.

Personally, the whole idea blows chunks, and that Aussie PM seems to live up Bush's bottom, and only comes out when Bush shits in someones front yard. Silly man needs to have some balls like our PM, and do what any sane country would, and stop rewarding Bush's bratty behaviour with attention, and ignore the whole damn regime.

[myvice]

Hmmm, na.
I was born a Kiwi and will remain one!
I don’t like the idea of having our central government in another country either, we get ignored now, but to have them another 8 hours away would make me even more cynical!
The political system is a lot more bureaucratic and self serving than our one too, with the state governments, local councils and then the federal government all with there ores in the mix nothing gets done and it takes a long time to do it!
Would our cops start carrying guns? Would our laws be changed? Would our education system have Australian history taught? Would the Maori’s stand a chance against what seems to be a raciest and impartial government? Would our taxes go into a new highway from Broom to Darwin?
Its one thing to have a slightly stronger dollar but how many times would you hear “Sorry that has to come through Australia…” Remember they have very different import laws than us, and many things we take for granted now would cease to exist in a short time. Brought a cheep Jap car/bike/TV lately?
And our exports? Where would our wool stand if it has to go through an Aussi middleman?
As nice and empathic as the Americans have proved themselves to be I don’t want to be in too tight with them. And when the Ausies marched due to the war and where dismissed as hippies or troublemakers how much notice would be taken of us?
Hmmm, no sir I don’t like it, I don’t like it one bit.

[Big Dave]

A common currency would be worthwhile.

There are 2 reasons against a common government;

1. John
2. Howard.

Carnt!

[Big Dave]

Won't happen. What is in it for Australia that they can't aready have for nothiing now?
G

A 20% bigger economy?
I'm a patriotic Aussie - even my tattoos are 'nationalist' - but I don't think NZ should ever entertain common govt.
Aussie foreign policy completely sucks, that tax and GST system is a shambles and there is an entire extra layer of state government to deal with. Not to mention having to insert your nose up GWB's arse.

NZ should adopt the Aussie model of health funding (the medicare levy), it's model for the institute of sport and continue going to the Gold Coast for holidays. Apart from that forget it. The rest works better here already.

[Winston001]

Economic union - yes. Political union - no. We don't need to abandon our sovereignty. The EU, bureaucratic though it is, shows that a union can be economic without the individual countries losing their identity.

The international trend, driven by global business is for harmonisation of laws. Free trade arrangements such as NAFTA are an example.

Currency is also under the same pressure with the $US being the default. All of this can happen without each country surrendering their political independance.

[Hitcher]

Political union with Australia raises similar issues to us becoming a republic. Notably the Treaty of Waitangi...