Braided brake lines

[vifferman]

Hi there.

I'm new to "Kiwi Biker" (as of right now) and I've just fitted Aerotek-BSR braided stainless steel brake lines to my VTR. Now I've been informed that they may not be road legal, as they don't have crimped-on fittings (they use bolt-on bits). Does anyone know for sure what the regulations are? I've done mutliple Google searches, and I can't find the information pertaining to this. The nearest I've got is something saying that brakes may not have potentially unsafe connections, or vague crapola to that effect.

[pete376403]

Last time I got a warrant, the guy said he would pass the hoses "this time" but technically they are not legal as they don't have an approval number (ie DOT) I had a look at the hoses on a Triumph Speed Triple here at work and there is a sleeve on the hose with various numbers.
I fabricated the hoses on my bike with parts from BMS in Wellington. They are a zillion times better than the previous rubber things which, in spite of being crap, were legal. I'm seriously considering putting the old ones back on for the wof, then reverting to the good uns.

It seems once a vehicle has been failed and the data entered into the system, you can't go somewhere else for a second opinion
WOF inspectors have considerable power and some of them get a real hard-on using it (or a wide-on, in the case of the female inspectress at the testing station in Tory St, who failed my work vehicle for an empty windscreen washer bottle. I should have pissed in it while she waited)

[vifferman]

Thanx, Pete. Not quite the news I was hoping for, but at least it's more data to work with.

Like you say, they're a million times better than the stock ones, and if the stupid inspectors exercised a bit of common sense it would be helpful. Are they safe? Do they work? So what's the problem?

I had the Pajero I used to own failed for a WOF because it was missing one of the tags on the back seatbelt. Any moron could see that (a) the belts were all the factory-fitted ones (apart from the driver's, which I'd had replaced after it had been passed through the WOF process FOUR times despite being frayed!!), and that (b) the other ones in the back had the tags, so WTF did it matter if one didn't?!? It was the same freakin belt, for goodness sake!

[Deano]

Last time I got a warrant, the guy said he would pass the hoses "this time" but technically they are not legal as they don't have an approval number (ie DOT) I had a look at the hoses on a Triumph Speed Triple here at work and there is a sleeve on the hose with various numbers.
I fabricated the hoses on my bike with parts from BMS in Wellington. They are a zillion times better than the previous rubber things which, in spite of being crap, were legal. I'm seriously considering putting the old ones back on for the wof, then reverting to the good uns.

It seems once a vehicle has been failed and the data entered into the system, you can't go somewhere else for a second opinion
WOF inspectors have considerable power and some of them get a real hard-on using it (or a wide-on, in the case of the female inspectress at the testing station in Tory St, who failed my work vehicle for an empty windscreen washer bottle. I should have pissed in it while she waited)

I got hassled by the local WOF inspector for braided brake lines - I had to show that they met DOT standards - I can't recall the numbers but they were FMVSS standards approved and had a DOT number on them.

I got the WOF eventually - I belive the confusion arose from LTSA putting out a new booklet to guide inspectors in issuing WOF's, BUT as it was simplified, the guide did not state that some braided brake lines were ok, providing they met the FMVSS standard.

The concern being that some crimped lines have blown leaving the rider with no brakes. I have rechecked the Traffic Reg's 1990, but appears that the brake standard listing has been revoked. Maybe they have outlawed them all since I had mine.

[Motu]

With the way things work these days Pete,if your front brake fails and you kill yourself they come looking for someone to blame - you're dead,so the inspector who ''let it go this once'' is done for manslaughter....any wonder no one wants to put their neck in the noose.Someones got to put their name on these things as being safe - that means whoever made them,and if they are approved by the LTSA to do brake hoses then that's ok...oh,you done it yerself eh,yeah right....next please!

It doesn't matter if your vehicle is enterd into the system as a fail,all you have to do is pass,it doesn't have to be passed by the same crowd that failed it - but you will have to pay another inspection fee.

[MikeL]

I had a talk with Mike at Red Baron just after I got my CB400 a year and a half ago. I wanted to put braided lines on as a relatively cheap way to improve the mediocre braking on this bike, and he told me I would have no end of WOF troubles and so I abandoned the idea. As has been noted elsewhere on this forum, the steady tightening up in the WOF regulations has now reached the point where the law of diminishing returns applies and it constitutes another insidious erosion of freedom as well as an extra form of taxation. How many of the deaths and injuries on the roads have been directly or even indirectly attributable to mechanical defects other than the obvious ones of bald tyres and worn brakes?
Where is the lobbying coming from? Vehicle importers??
I'm tempted to get the braided lines anyway and keep the old ones for the WOF check. I suspect there might be some insurance implications though...

[Motu]

This is straight from the VIRM - open for your interpretation

Requirements for rejection


g) is a stainless steel braided brake hose that is not:

i used to substitute OE hoses only,and

ii designed specifically for highway use,and

iii can be identified as complying with a recognised approved automotive standard(such as FMVSS - 106)

Do you understand that? if you do,read it a few more times until you are confused!

I take it to mean that if it had stainless hoses OE,then it can have replacment ones fitted...I don't know how not for highway use hoses differ from highway hoses.Recognised automotive standard such as....and they only give us one - uh,what other standards apply guys,thanks a lot eh.

My Honda has a stainless hose and has some band around the top,I take that as some sort of standard at least.

[F5 Dave]

Yes my previously homologated parts braided lines are now illegal :brick: , I muttered & groaned but ended up getting some more made by Alert Engineering in Auckland. Just sent the originals away & got them to reproduce them, However I had already a 2 line system, 3 line system will be more expensive.
If you do go to a 2 line system make sure the lines are long enough with the wheel off the ground & you have suitable brackets to hold the lines out of the way.

Alert make up Hel brand lines (quick search on web will find them) & these are LTSA approved, crimped properly & have the right numbers & get away from the legal hassle of ‘I didn’t build these up myself’. I considered the legal implications & insurance & figured it was worthwhile. Having said that I also fitted R1 callipers which strictly speaking; any changes to the brake components require certification. Even changing the master cylinder I was told.

Screw ‘em! :sneaky2: they work a million times better & are std on R1s & most assessors wouldn’t be able to tell they aren’t std & if they argued you could say -prove it, this model has them.

[FzerozeroT]

easiest way is toget them fitted at a garage that does WOF's, they will pass them forever and a day, otherwise you getthem to fix them cause they legally have to do them to a WOF standard

[merv]

This is straight from the VIRM - open for your interpretation

Requirements for rejection


g) is a stainless steel braided brake hose that is not:

i used to substitute OE hoses only,and

ii designed specifically for highway use,and

iii can be identified as complying with a recognised approved automotive standard(such as FMVSS - 106)



Motu the bit of the VIRM you have quoted I read that as not applying to motorcycles (except the three wheeler classes) but if you read the bit about motorcycle brakes here http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/publications/vir-manual/motorcycles/008-mc-brakes.pdf you'll see its similar but different and damned near as confusing. The guts of it seems to be that they are expecting near enough like for like replacement and braided lines are only OK if braided were supplied as OEM in the first place.

Also the modification can be signed off by a qualified vehicle certifier if you can find such a person, otherwise the person checking the machine is obliged to follow the VIRM. i.e a bit like getting an engineers certificate for the work. Probably more hassle than its worth.

[Motu]

It was out of the motorcycle section of the VIRM,but it's damn near the same as the car section with a couple of motorcycle bits tossed in,hidden in the bullshit.But yeah,I read it like you - if they came OE they're ok,if they are replacment for rubber make sure they have some sort of marking you can bullshit as being official.I'm lucky,the guy who does my bike WoFs is not the full quid,he's always half pissed when he does mine...nod,nod...wink,wink.

[Rodders]

I have just got braided lines for tke R1 - work great. I took my original lines in and got them made up by ALERT ENGINEERING 7 Gabador Pl Mt Wellington ph 5731008 and they give you a Certificate of LTSA compliance. They have been certified by LTSA and use HEL brand lines from UK. I have some threaded braided brake lines on another bike and I used some black electrical wiring heat shrink over the outside of the fittings and had no problem getting a WOF -Good Luck

[k14]

How much does it normally cost to get braided lines made by a certified place?

[merv]

It was out of the motorcycle section of the VIRM,but it's damn near the same as the car section with a couple of motorcycle bits tossed in,hidden in the bullshit.But yeah,I read it like you - if they came OE they're ok,if they are replacment for rubber make sure they have some sort of marking you can bullshit as being official.I'm lucky,the guy who does my bike WoFs is not the full quid,he's always half pissed when he does mine...nod,nod...wink,wink.

You're right, looks like my LTSA links were all screwed up and I was looking at the August 2002 VIRM on motorcycles, not the July 2003 one that reads the same as the bit on cars. The old one used to say

Requirements for rejection

17. A flexible brake hose (including connections):
a) is a different type or specification than OE (e.g. non-OE braided hoses), or

etc etc

That seems a bit clearer than the new one which some bureaucrat has seen fit to change so that no one really understands it.

Rodders picks up the point that the right place can certify the lines and anyone wanting braided lines should do it that way.

k14 has asked about cost - Rodders should answer that as he has had some done.

[vifferman]

Yeah Rodders - how much were your HEL lines from Alert Engineering?

[Lou Girardin]

WOF inspectors have considerable power and some of them get a real hard-on using it (or a wide-on, in the case of the female inspectress at the testing station in Tory St, who failed my work vehicle for an empty windscreen washer bottle. I should have pissed in it while she waited)

That's news to me, since when were washers a WOF requirement?
Lou

[SPman]

That's news to me, since when were washers a WOF requirement?
Lou Little people in little jobs wanting to feel powerful.........

[Motu]

92 on,but some of the testing station gestapo think anything with a windsheild needs them - tell em to get fucked...and like,if ya can't pour water into the bottle for the lady...hellooooh?

Like the prick who failed one of my customers for a loose fuel cap...duh,it was loose,you had your hand on it,how easy was it to just do it up.He probably goes home at night and says ''mummy,everyone hates me,sniff,sniff''

[750Y]

dam if she failed you on the water bottle she musta really wanted you to come back huh. next it'll be the rear seat belts and would you like to climb in for a closer look young man. :whistle:

[Drunken Monkey]

You guys are so unlucky. Had braided lines on the '88 gixxer. The only responses I ever got from WOF testers were:

"Wow check out this guys brakes! Ever seen a bike stop like this?" *Applies quick stop with 1 finger only*

Then the big thumbs up...

[Eddieb]

I will have to see what happens with my bike, the WOF expires this week and I'll try and get it in this weekend or early next week.

When I bought the bike back from the UK last year I had to replace the braided lines I had with new ones because they had no markings on them. I got new ones with all the right markings from Motorad in Lower Hutt and they were approved by VTNZ on Tory street. They are screw on not crimped so might be interesting.

I'll be going back to VTNZ because they passed the import mechanical check, if they fail them I will be kicking up a stink cause they approved them 6 months ago.

[vifferman]

Eddie,

Just got the word from the horse's mouth - it's only the markings that are the problem. My screw-on fittings and the rest of the lines are fine, or would be if the had the relevant 'DOT' markings. Now where's me felt-tipped marker pen...

Update:
Went to MotoHaus (next door to MotoMail in Kingsland) and had Kerry replace the brake lines with some that weren't particularly different, apart from having the all-important LTSA approval due to the relevant DOT number being printed on the lines. So now I don't got to worry no more. :laugh:

Also had him change the rear brake fluid, clutch fluid, and tyres while the bike was on the hoist. It now sports shiny newAvon Azaros - an AV36 S/T rear, and an AV49 Sport front.

He's a Top Bloke, that Kerry.

[pete376403]

That's news to me, since when were washers a WOF requirement?
Lou
I was told by one tester that, basically, any item on a vehicle when it was registered as new, has to work when tested. I've also been failed on (Mazda Capella wagon) exhaust pipe extending too far at the rear (because the rear bumper wasn't fitted). The lack of bumper wasn't an issue, just that the pipe stuck out too far. In another instance, I had a Corolla wagon, which had a mesh rack behind the drivers seat and the rear seats were bolted down. Tory St LTSA failed this because they couldn't check the rear belts. "Um, no one can use the rear belts, because the seats are bolted down". Didn't matter, because it was registered as a 5 passenger, she (yes, that one again) had to check five sets of belts. She said my employer could re-register the car as a two seater, or else remove the rack and unbolt the seats.

[pete376403]

dam if she failed you on the water bottle she musta really wanted you to come back huh. next it'll be the rear seat belts and would you like to climb in for a closer look young man. :whistle:
See my reply to Lou and I will NEVER go back to that place.

[wkid_one]

I will have to see what happens with my bike, the WOF expires this week and I'll try and get it in this weekend or early next week.

When I bought the bike back from the UK last year I had to replace the braided lines I had with new ones because they had no markings on them. I got new ones with all the right markings from Motorad in Lower Hutt and they were approved by VTNZ on Tory street. They are screw on not crimped so might be interesting.

I'll be going back to VTNZ because they passed the import mechanical check, if they fail them I will be kicking up a stink cause they approved them 6 months ago.
Had mine done by GSS in Penrose for the VTR - they never had a problem with these through the WOF's. Didn't even mention them once. These are made to order on the spot - and are then not preassembled and unless you shrink wrap them yourself - they come as exposed braided hoses (you will want to cover them as they are quite abrasive and can rip through the plastic and soft metals under the cluster pretty easily).....just get some 7mm Black Loom piping from RepCo - works a treat.

[Drunken Monkey]

In another instance, I had a Corolla wagon, which had a mesh rack behind the drivers seat and the rear seats were bolted down. Tory St LTSA failed this because they couldn't check the rear belts. "Um, no one can use the rear belts, because the seats are bolted down". Didn't matter, because it was registered as a 5 passenger, she (yes, that one again) had to check five sets of belts. She said my employer could re-register the car as a two seater, or else remove the rack and unbolt the seats.

hmmmm...I ripped out the rear seats and belts from my Supra. The testing station guy said I had to take it back if I put them back in to get the seat anchors and the belts retested, but otherwise he marked the sheet as "presented without rear seats or belts" and passed it...I didn't even think there was a 'number of seats' based registration here - can't see anything on my MR3 form that says "4 seater", it only has:
Make, Model, Vehicle Year, CC Rating, body type, VIN/Chassis #, Engine #, Vehicle usage, Registered in, First registered.

Dude, I think you were had...(or at least dealt with someone who didn't understand the finer points of their job...)

[Motu]

No,to be classed as a commercial vehicle the rear seat needs to be removed,and the belts too,this is to make sure that it is a comercial vehicle and not just a passenger vehicle with the seat pushed forward.If the load space is more than the passenger space you don't need rear belts.No matter how clear the rules,someone can still reinterperate them in a ''new'' way.

[Drunken Monkey]

No,to be classed as a commercial vehicle the rear seat needs to be removed,and the belts too,this is to make sure that it is a comercial vehicle and not just a passenger vehicle with the seat pushed forward.If the load space is more than the passenger space you don't need rear belts.No matter how clear the rules,someone can still reinterperate them in a ''new'' way.

You're talking about a 'work vehicle' for Fringe Benefit Tax purposes - ie to not have to pay FBT on a vehicle, it must be a 'work vehicle' only, not available to staff after normal business hours. Bolting the seats down, cargo cage and visible sign writing are all parts of this requirement. I direct you to the IR409 pamphlet for more information on this subject.
That's got nowt to do with REGISTRATION of a vehicle or a WARRANT OF FITNESS. A car can have back seats and still be a 'commerical' vehicle as far as the LTSA/road licensing is concerned, just look at Taxis.
TWO seperate issues not TO be confused!

[Motu]

No,I'm talking about WoF - notto be confused with registration.

[FROSTY]

The man to talk to is a fella called alex Gee --hes a low volume vehicle certifier --Ie He gets outragous bikes onto the road.
As I understand it there are two problems with braided lines
1) if the lines aren't stamped with a standard or have a letter of standard there is a chance they will fail - We all say -yea mine wont but not all braided lines are alike and there are those that might fail.
2) proven cycle ability.-Noone has done a test to see how well braided wire stands up to constant repeated flexing as in on a bikes brakes.
aircraft replace their brake lines after a certain number of landings.

[scumdog]

That's news to me, since when were washers a WOF requirement?
Lou

The requirement is: if you have them fitted they have to work - like reversing lights and a whole reft of things I see as "optional" :wacko:

[pete376403]

The man to talk to is a fella called alex Gee --hes a low volume vehicle certifier --Ie He gets outragous bikes onto the road.
As I understand it there are two problems with braided lines
1) if the lines aren't stamped with a standard or have a letter of standard there is a chance they will fail - We all say -yea mine wont but not all braided lines are alike and there are those that might fail.
2) proven cycle ability.-Noone has done a test to see how well braided wire stands up to constant repeated flexing as in on a bikes brakes.
aircraft replace their brake lines after a certain number of landings.

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all

[vifferman]

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all

Waddya mean, it doesn't do anything?!? It looks KEWL, and that's a VERY important function! :ride:

[merv]

The braided wire doesn't do anything except protect the actual hose. They would work just the same without any braiding at all


The guts is I thought the braiding makes them much stronger so when you pull hard on the brake they aren't as spongy as you get with a plain old rubber (synthetic or whatever) line i.e. the braiding encases the line and stops it expanding so much under pressure.

[pete376403]

The guts is I thought the braiding makes them much stronger so when you pull hard on the brake they aren't as spongy as you get with a plain old rubber (synthetic or whatever) line i.e. the braiding encases the line and stops it expanding so much under pressure.
When the braid is removed from the hose it's much like the shield conductor in a bit of coax wire (but in stainless) and pretty stretchy. I believe the hose itself is a teflon based plastic and super strong, much like the hose used for pneumatics on industrial machinery. My hoses are about to be sacrificed to the little gods at LTSA so I'll cut the braiding off before removing them and see if it makes any difference to the lever travel (new hoses waiting at Boyles - $150 / meter not including banjo ends.

[Coldkiwi]

goodness me! What a mine field. You'd think upgrading your brakes would be easy? Can't see the point in saying 'if it didn't come with braided lines, you can't have them'. Why would LTSA have a beef about a potentially better way of stopping? Sure, make it certifiable but it seems like they're almost discouraging improvements.

[merv]

When the braid is removed from the hose it's much like the shield conductor in a bit of coax wire (but in stainless) and pretty stretchy.

I think you'll find its stretchy (and flexible) in certain directions but when its encasing the line it won't allow stretch outwards because after all it is a strong stainless steel cover a bit like a boa constrictor wrapping itself around.

[FROSTY]

My point is that brakes are such an essential part of a bike that the LTSA
arent going to issue WOF's on brakes that MIGHT be ok.
They need to know for sure that they will work.
The standard lines meet LTSA standards.
All they are really asking is for you to PROVE that the brakes are as good as standard and will stay that way.

[FROSTY]

boing. --interesting rereading so Im bringin it back up :niceone:

[Quasievil]

Hi there.

I'm new to "Kiwi Biker" (as of right now) and I've just fitted Aerotek-BSR braided stainless steel brake lines to my VTR. Now I've been informed that they may not be road legal, as they don't have crimped-on fittings (they use bolt-on bits). Does anyone know for sure what the regulations are? I've done mutliple Google searches, and I can't find the information pertaining to this. The nearest I've got is something saying that brakes may not have potentially usnfae connections, or vague crapola to that effect.


Err thats spelt mutliple is spelt as Multiple, usnfae is spelt unsafe. :msn-wink:
just trying to help :niceone:

[wkid_one]

Never had a problem putting braideds on either of the two bikes. Both were made to order from Green Lane Speed Shop in Penrose (ie not bought off the shelf - but made by them on the spot). Many many WOF's later and no probs with the bikes brakes at all.

[FROSTY]

unless the lines have a proof of compliance attached (look for FMVSS 106) your insurance compaqny and LTSA won't see your WOF's as valid.
There are a couple of other British and australian standards you could use but the lines made up by Greenlane Speed shop are not certified if the are assembled from components rather than being one piece items.the shop will tell you they are sold for "competition use only" not road use.
You can also get guaranteed lines made by a comapnay in auckland called Alert Engineering , who have an approved process which LTSA recognises.
The WOF which some kindly certifier gave you will probably give him a huge fine and a stand down of up to 6 months loss of work and your insurance company will decline to pay out in the event of a claim.
it doesn't matter if they work or not -they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA

[RiderInBlack]

Had a rear flatie that "cut" the standard back brake hose on my 1991VFR750 and got Lambert Brakes And Clutch Ltd in Whg to make a braided hose to replace it (to stop this for happening again). With what you are saying here:


Is that braided hose not legal?
And how in this sutiation would a unbraided hose be safer?
PS: I no long have that bike, but would like to improve the standard of the brake hoses on my present bike (which are unbraided and probably will not last as life of my 14year old bike).

[Posh Tourer :P]

-they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA

What a load of rubbish.
Brake lines, like any other piece of equipment on a bike, are expected to be replaced at some point in the life of the bike. Perhaps in a perfect world the bike would no longer be used after a certain "lifetime" that is built into the bike, but in the real world, some bikes go on forever. If I fit quality hoses (not necessarily those that have bothered to comply to standards) to my bike, they are likely to last longer than the factory hoses, due to me being willing to spend more on quality hoses than the factory was. The bikes are made to a price. This means economising, including not using braided lines. Manufacturers *do not* always have the best gear on the bike. Moreover, it is not only certified work that is the best work. Ok, with uncertified stuff, you take a risk in terms of quality, but there can be some good work done without the piece of beaurocracy that says it ought to be good.

This sounds like a similar line to the MOTs :Police: line when using boxer twins. "We will not replace the crash bars as they are designed to last the life of the bike"
:no:

[wkid_one]

unless the lines have a proof of compliance attached (look for FMVSS 106) your insurance compaqny and LTSA won't see your WOF's as valid.
There are a couple of other British and australian standards you could use but the lines made up by Greenlane Speed shop are not certified if the are assembled from components rather than being one piece items.the shop will tell you they are sold for "competition use only" not road use.
You can also get guaranteed lines made by a comapnay in auckland called Alert Engineering , who have an approved process which LTSA recognises.
The WOF which some kindly certifier gave you will probably give him a huge fine and a stand down of up to 6 months loss of work and your insurance company will decline to pay out in the event of a claim.
it doesn't matter if they work or not -they will eventually fail before the expected life of the common original equipment items your machine came with.
XJ Frosty asked me to reply to this ]
Alex Gee
Low Volume Vehicle Certifier to LTSA
I gotta think that is a load of bollocks....will fail before the expected life of the original equipment....my arse. Who researched that fact? I have never heard so much dribble in my live.

I specifically asked GSS if they were recognised by the LTSA - to which end they produced the LTSA Accreditation confirming that they were happy with the way they were produced. They produce braided lines for both cars and bikes - road and track.

Besides this point - which numbnuts in the the LTSA decided riding a 20 year old bike with vulcanised old rubber brakes lines are safer than new braided ones?

Sorry - I will run the risk and continue to run braided lines.....

[Motu]

I don't think Alex was talking about them lasting the life of the vehicle,just the component.

But that's just what it is - the life expectancy of a Japanese vehicle is 7 yrs,that's why you will find almost all Jap Imports are 7 yrs old.So the vehicle was expected to last 7 years and the component manufacturers made sure their products would last beyond that,no more is required - in Japan all brake,steering and suspension components would need to be replaced at that time,along with seatbelts and any other safety related system.We are playing catch up with vehicles well beyond their expected life span,that's why new regs keep coming out.Like seatbelts are snapping in accidents - asked why and the manufacturers say they need to be replaced at 7 yrs,so we have to find some phony reason to get them out of our pool of cars.

Alex is involved in compliance,I just see inservice - 10 yr old brake hoses are perished and cracked,7 yr old hoses are fine.We also check for bulges etc,but it's only a visual check - I have seen plenty of burst hoses,not one had external deterioration,we can't see the inside.

Oh,and PT - old Aussie and British/Euro hoses are physicaly perfect externaly even at 20yrs,quality? dunno,but if I see nothing is wrong...nothing is wrong.

[FROSTY]

hey guys I asked the expert --this is the guy the auckland testing stations ask when they aren't sure if something is up to WOF standard on a motorbike.
Keep in mind his is the OFFICIAL line
You guys are missing the point--It isn't a matter of quality of product its PROVEN quality of product.
WKKD --if you have brake lines with a certification of compliance -be it a bit of paper or markings on the lines.-then they comply -plain and simple.
Posh--Personally I am not prepared to take the risk of a brake line failing because some idiot didn't assemble them properly.
Quick question -What kind of brake lines do most combat aircraft use? Yep braided lines
Are they replaced after a limited number of hours use--YES
Why? -no not a flight of fancy -The lines are tested through a number of duty cycles till they fail
Then they build in a pretty big safety factor and tell the end user that the lines need to be replaced after that period.
Rubber hoses have isssues -we all know that-but they do have one good feature. You can flex em a heck of a lot more times than you can a bit of woven wire

[Posh Tourer :P]

You guys are missing the point--It isn't a matter of quality of product its PROVEN quality of product.
WKKD --if you have brake lines with a certification of compliance -be it a bit of paper or markings on the lines.-then they comply -plain and simple.
Posh--Personally I am not prepared to take the risk of a brake line failing because some idiot didn't assemble them properly.
Rubber hoses have isssues -we all know that-but they do have one good feature. You can flex em a heck of a lot more times than you can a bit of woven wire

Point 3: You can flex them sharply more times than woven wire. Brake lines shouldnt have sharp kinks in them anyway. Wire will last longer if it isnt forced into sharp bends.
Point 2:The reason things and people are cerified is legal liability. You can get idiots anywhere. I will rely on certification if that is all I have to go on. If I know a little about the issue I will keepit in mind but not limit myself to certified providers. There are people out there who take far more care over their work than some of the high volume certified engineers.
Point 1:Proven quality is different to acceptance of legal liability. They are close but not the same. Accepting legal liability often means proven quality, but not all proven quality products accept legal liability

[Motu]

True,Golemand are having to redo their hoses,same hoses,just the new ones have a number stamped on them.The quality is the same.

[FROSTY]

Mate we will have to agree to dissagree on this one.
Actually now I was mulling this over last night and I wonder.
The isssues with braided lines are indeed perception.
if its a case of what the eye doesnt see.....
Why dont we slide an outer casing of rubber hose over the braided line ?.
Your average testing officer aint gonna see the difference .

[vifferman]

Err thats spelt mutliple is spelt as Multiple, usnfae is spelt unsafe. :msn-wink:
just trying to help :niceone:
Thanx, Mr QsauiEliv.
And thanx for not taunting me becoz I suffer from keyborad dyslixijadio ... dyoiuoa... dxyliax... dicklessai... D Y S L E X I A. (There. Dunnit.) :blink:

And BTW - if you look back at my lastest post - I had to replace my quality Aerotek lines with some that to my expert untrained eye looked eggszachary the same (in fact, not as pretty), except they had the accepted markings on the sides of the hoses. And they were twice the price.

Another by the by - it's worth fitting (approved) braided lines, especially to replace the crappy flexy OEM :2thumbsup ones on the VTR1000. No, they won't help you to stop faster, but they do feel a heap better, especially if you brake with one or two fingers most of the time.

[nico]

so has any one any updates on this????? also what are the brands we can buy here in n.z that will pass , so where to go to get em?

[imdying]

Go read the VIR manual on the LTSA site. It explains what is acceptable for WOFs and what isn't. Basically, anything that is crimped is fine.

[Usarka]

I'm new to "Kiwi Biker" (as of right now) and I've just fitted Aerotek-BSR braided stainless steel brake lines to my VTR.

Welcome to the site.

[rabidnz]

the front brakes on my rg250 are terrible and barely work until the lever is at the bar, i have bled and bled and there is no air in there or getting in and the pressure doesnt really pump up so im thinking i need a new master cylinder? is there any way i can open it up and fix it without a rebuil kit?

oh and the relevance to this thread is.... I just passed a wof yesterday, in fact a re-vinning exam, at VTNZ, and it flew through.

[imdying]

Something of that age should be given a complete overhaul... brakes are more than an eclectic collection of items, they're a complete system and must be treated and maintained as such.