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ZorsT
12th February 2006, 11:55
This was only really a problem for me when I went racing, but.

At the hairpin, I would enter too fast. My peg would start scraping early in the corner, and continue to scrape all the way through.

By the time I got half way around the corner, i realised that with the line I chose to take, at the speed I chose to go, I would not make it all the way around the corner.

On all occations, I would straighten up just before hitting the grass and run out and then ride back onto the track.

What i want to know is this:
At the point that i realise i'm not going to make it how i'm going, what can I do to make the corner (and therefore lose less time)

cowpoos
12th February 2006, 12:11
pull more of your weight to the inside of the bike...not just your lower torso and leg,knee...more ur upper body over alot and closer to the tank...find some pic's of racers at high lean angles and look at there positions....
another thing is PM 'shaun' [as in shaun harris...he's on the site] and ask him...

Two Smoker
12th February 2006, 12:47
What i want to know is this:
At the point that i realise i'm not going to make it how i'm going, what can I do to make the corner (and therefore lose less time)

Have a slightly slower entry...

But i prefer, roll off the throttle slightly, and feather the front brake...

Skunk
12th February 2006, 16:58
PM 'shaun' [as in shaun harris...he's on the site] and ask him...
Then tell us too.

James Deuce
12th February 2006, 17:45
Like The Dover says, "Slow in, fast out."

Speaking relatively of course.

FROSTY
12th February 2006, 17:59
Working on the theory you have already entered the corner
LEAN MORE -- when all else fails--LEAN
Get your body inboard WAAY inboard.
The other thing is--the peg scraped--so what?? let it scrape and fold up --
Lay the bike over on its side till the peg hits then see how much further ya can lean before anything solid hits the deck.

The other thing is PRACTICE --You know iots a weakness so see how the other guys do it then make use of the practice time

The_Dover
12th February 2006, 18:12
Slow in, Fast out.

Peace.

mikey
12th February 2006, 18:31
fukn hell dover, claiming to be fast again...... your just a little less slow coming out of corners. not fast......

ZorsT
12th February 2006, 19:06
Every time I poo'd that corner up, the next few times I entered at a slower speed, and all was fine. A slower entry speed is easy enough to say, but when you are already in the corner it is too late.

It seems I need to move more weight off the bike (another known weakness of mine) and crank it over further ;D

I am reluctant to roll off the throttle or touch the brake for fear of a bin, although with a TT900GP i should be able to get away with a fair amount.

Cheers

Two Smoker
12th February 2006, 20:00
I am reluctant to roll off the throttle or touch the brake for fear of a bin, although with a TT900GP i should be able to get away with a fair amount.

Cheers

Theres only one way to learn, and thats to try it, the worst case scenario if you roll off the throttle too much is you run wide, and do a bit of grass tracking which is managable. Feathering the brake is all about learning how much you can use. You will be surprised how much brake you can use in mid corner... Just take things in small steps and you will learn what it feels like when the front is starting to tuck and how much brake you can use

On a RG150 dont do what Frosty said, because it will unload the back wheel, and you will lowside (experienced in this...) But this doesnt apply to bigger bikes

So in summary... GET OUT THERE AND PRACTICE LEARN THE BIKE AND LEARN WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH IT BUT MOST OF ALL HAVE FUN :niceone:

Rhino
12th February 2006, 20:19
Well said Two Smoker,

That's a good piece of advice. Practice and more practice is the only way to learn what your bike is capable of and how it reacts to mid corner braking etc. Every bike is unique. I ride the 'Wing totally different to the Kawasaki 750 that also shares the gargre.

Kickaha
12th February 2006, 20:24
i realised that with the line I chose to take, at the speed I chose to go, I would not make it all the way around the corner.


Perhaps you need to try a different line

Will you be down for the have a go day on March 18th?

FzerozeroT
12th February 2006, 21:07
Rearsets...

ZorsT
13th February 2006, 07:06
Perhaps you need to try a different line

Will you be down for the have a go day on March 18th?
I'll try to get down, but i'm not too sure about riding down again


Rearsets...
streetstock rules don't allow rearsets IIRC, but I had thought of that

Jamezo
13th February 2006, 09:02
Tell me about it. I cocked up yesterday when I couldn't flick the bike over fast enough through an S-bend while I had the front brake on (just lightly mind).

Could I have made it even with the brake on, if I had just given it heaps and counter-steered harder?

Pathos
13th February 2006, 16:35
Also need to be prepared to throw your weight over the over side too so the bike doesn't have to drag you over as well.

The_Dover
13th February 2006, 16:38
Okay,

Slow in, slightly less slow out.

Sweet?

ZorsT
13th February 2006, 19:23
when I'm halfway through a corner, its too late to enter the corner slow

.produKt
9th April 2006, 14:37
I didnt think it was possible to go too fast :D.... In a straight line anyway :D

Sniper
9th April 2006, 15:38
I didnt think it was possible to go too fast :D.... In a straight line anyway :D

Its a corner????? HTF would you go straight? :eek5:

Good tips there guys. I have always found that getting my arse off the seat and just hoping the tyres held. I still ride like shit though

.produKt
9th April 2006, 15:40
Lol.... i know its a corner, but theres a straight before each :P

beyond
23rd April 2006, 15:46
Ok, my humble wee comments.
My 1400 has a habit of grounding fairly early, though it's a fair way over before it does.

The rubber will hold okay and you will be suprised at how far you can lean a bike in good conditions and with good rubber before it lets go, as long as you don't upset it.

Any bike will pull 1 to 1.1 g's in a corner but you can't brake and corner TO THE LIMIT all in one go as you will overload the tyres. You can feather the front brake through a corner as long as you are not on the cornering limit for your tyres and bike.

I have found the only way to stop scraping through a corner when pushing hard on my 1400, is to hang off the bike. Your weight needs to be over the side, arse, head, shoulders and upper body as well. This allows your bike to keep upright more and gives you more margin for error. If you find you are still swinging wide, lean the bike more with you hanging off it.

By hanging off it, you change the centre of gravity and corner faster and harder than by staying in the seat and thereby minimise the chances of hard parts touching down.

I have had the centre stand and side stand foot and left peg down hard once and even on a heavy 1400, this has thrown the rear out. Disconcerting but it restabilised quickly which was good. On a lighter bike you will get thrown when the hard bits touch down hard. The rear will toss out and you will lowside, so get off the side and you will find it makes a huge difference.

pritch
27th April 2006, 16:48
[QUOTE=mikey]your just a little less slow coming out of corners. QUOTE]

Oh so cruel. Cruel but funny :-)

DEMONFZR
2nd May 2006, 16:34
I have also found myself in the same situation, but on the road :(

When im out for a cruise on unfamiliar roads I have this nasty habit of not noting things like 55k corners, and when I hit them at 140ish I tend to shit myself a bit (actually I shit myself a lot)!! Doesnt matter if its a lefty or righty, either way im in trouble, either the wrong lane or in the dirt on the side of the road.

I have never actually practised what to do in this situation, I just tend to button off and lean real hard, and thankfully ive managed to make it on the few occasions I have done this. Its not so bad when you know its a sharp one coming, its those long tight corners that catch me out.....I no its not quite the same as being on a track trying to save time or whatever, but il be taking onboard the advice you guys have posted.

cheers

texmo
2nd May 2006, 18:48
You can only go around a corner so fast.

Ixion
2nd May 2006, 19:49
Not so. You can also go round them too fast. Or, strictly speaking, I suppose go round most of the corner.

beyond
2nd May 2006, 21:56
Not so. You can also go round them too fast. Or, strictly speaking, I suppose go round most of the corner.

:) I like that. Exactly what happens when you are too fast. Getting around most of the corner is a real worry.

1 to 1.1g of lateral force is all a bike will handle. Now this includes rider weight, the weight of the bike etc etc. Once the tyres have reached that maximum G force, you don't complete the corner. :(

Notice how in Moto GP some riders get around a corner just fine and another one shoots off, highsides or lowsides. Sure the bikes are setup different but weight is a huge factor. Look at the riders. They would all have been jockeys.

So, if you push the envelope that little bit too much, you ain't going to complete the corner.

Some things you can do in this scenario:
1. If there is a little bit of room to play with, straighten momentarily and apply front brake, hard but safely to get speed down and dip into it again.
2. If there is no room and the arse or front is about to give way and you know you aren't going to hold it (you'll know) it's better to lowside than it is to high side. By trying to regain control, you run the risk of high siding, which means you hit the ground a lot harder :( Then the bike can roll, bounce and sometimes land on top of you. Ouch. :(
3. If you do manage to regain control momentarily, but still find there is no way to make the corner, straighten and aim for the nicest, softest looking spot you can see, while applying maximum braking force without full lock up.
Once in the gravel, full lock up doesn't matter. as the bunching of gravel in front of the tyres will slow you quicker anyway, as long as you don't wash out the front.

BUT, better not that you get into this situation in the 1st place.

FROSTY
3rd May 2006, 08:22
or of course you could be hung off peg on the deck fully coomitted and have the front tyre go bye bye on ya

XP@
3rd May 2006, 09:34
A few months ago I was scraping pegs and scrubbing off my chicken strips with ease.

Then I was told to lean in to the corner not out of the corner... doh, i knew this but wasn't doing it. So in a right hander my head is now over my right hand and the opposite in a lefty.

Now, maintaining the same speed (or even a tad faster) as before I am cornering without anything touching and I still have some of the furry bits on the edges of my tyres. Given the change to riding style I appear to have a lot more avalible grip for any given corner. And on the occasions where I have come in too hot there has been well enough grip to cope. My suspension set-up on the other hand really did not coped too well with the added speed, making the bike more like a pogo stick on occasion, have fixed it now :-)

buellbabe
3rd May 2006, 10:54
...I have this nasty habit of not noting things like 55k corners, and when I hit them at 140ish I tend to shit myself a bit (actually I shit myself a lot)!!

There is a 45km corner on the way to Mangawai that has a big sign preceeding it that says something like 'SLOW DOWN NOW'... I took no notice of it cos the previous 45's had been easy-peesy... well I found myself on the other side of the road and thought 'hmmm... guess I should have slowed down!!!' Shit happens!
Re: this hairpin on the track... I agree with what others have said and will just add this, are ya looking thru the bend or into the apex of the corner? Yr line will improve if you're looking thru...

FROSTY
6th May 2006, 00:31
BB--that corner is a stunner.--my ma and pa live about 5 k frm there.
The number of bikers that muck that one up I can't count.
Ohh and I stand by my origonal sttatement--when all else has failed LEAN more

ZorsT
9th May 2006, 18:57
Every time i lean more (twice now) the back wheel has unloaded and almost resulted in a crash, once was a nearly lowside, and the other was a nearly highside.

Jamezo
9th May 2006, 21:48
There is a 45km corner on the way to Mangawai that has a big sign preceeding it that says something like 'SLOW DOWN NOW'... I took no notice of it cos the previous 45's had been easy-peesy... well I found myself on the other side of the road and thought 'hmmm... guess I should have slowed down!!!' Shit happens!
Re: this hairpin on the track... I agree with what others have said and will just add this, are ya looking thru the bend or into the apex of the corner? Yr line will improve if you're looking thru...
One of the most useful things I've heard here is the "MPH rule"; that a nice and friendly corner speed for signposted corners can be found by pretending the sign is written in MPH. Hasn't failed me yet.

In the twisties however, the only evidence you have of the corner radius is your own eyes, and that can be decieving. Most of the time with a positive margin of error, but occasionally the opposite.... It's a skill that can only be honed through lots of ridez0ring.

TonyB
9th May 2006, 22:09
Moderators, please delete this thread. These people have been talking about cornering on motorcycles for two pages now! Come on! This is KB! ;)

Good thread. Can't really offer too much advice except that you should be avoiding the situation in the first place- if you can't lean any more then you really have overcooked it.

Four wee ideas, but they all apply to just before it all turns to shite;
- pick a braking marker
- pick a point where you turn in
- don't slowly lean the bike over, get it over quickly. You'll end up using less lean to do the same job.
- look as far ahead as you can. You might be just taking a bad line? Looking way ahead will help sort that out.

But then what do I know? (Just getting in before Kickaha ;-) )