Riding Gravel on a Sprotsbike [Archive]

Keystone19

13th February 2006, 16:47

Dunno if this is the right forum to post this but here it is...

Yesterday I had a brilliant ride up to Tawharanui Regional Park. Rode via Hwy16 and across to Warkworth and then through Matakana before turning off to the Regional Park.

Now for those of you who haven't been to Tawharanui, the last 5km of the road in is twisty gravel corners with one straight stretch through the middle. Although I rode the gravel by choice yesterday, sometimes there is no choice and we have to ride the gravel through road works or up the mates driveway or whatever. Thought I'd share my experiences in case someone finds it helpful.

Yesterday I rode in second gear and managed to keep a comfortable speed of about 40kph. By staying in the vehicle track, keeping a relaxed grip on the bars and just guiding the bike rather than steering it made the riding easy. Keeping it in second meant I could give it a little handful if need be.

Being a Vtwin I was able to use a lot of engine braking but still found I had to use the brakes on the odd steeper downhill corner. In these instances I tended to use the back brake gently in combination with the engine braking.

Anyone else got tips for riding gravel on a sprotsbike? I have to say I quite enjoy it and might have to think about getting a trail bike...:msn-wink:

skelstar

13th February 2006, 16:52

We discussed this on our trip eh KS?

We decided that grabbing a handleful of the front brake was a BAD idea, and if the back slides out then stomping on the brakes was NOT good, and putting a bit of power on (hence 2nd gear) WAS good.

Correct me if Im wrong.

I think the 'loosy goosy' thing is fairly important though. :niceone:

Mental Trousers

13th February 2006, 18:14

Standing on the pegs helps stop the bike from moving around much, and if the bike is on any sort of a lean weighting the outside peg gives you more grip and control over the bike.

cowpoos

13th February 2006, 18:35

listen to uncles Poo's real good kids....I live on a gravel road...a longish one...

Okay first up...you can use a fair bit of front brake no worries...just not around corners...a slightly lower gear is good...and you could probally find u can travel much much faster...I usually sit on around 90-120kmph sweet as...

DON"T STAND UP!!!! because of your shit for purpose tyres u want the centre of gravity as low as posible...especially for any little slides as its much easyer to control...try to ride in the wheel tracks if possible...if you have to cross the centre of the tracks [looser stuff] take a bit of weight off the front handle bars by gripping your tank with your knees...smooth throttle...
and your bike will move abit so try if you can [it can be hard] to relax... back brake can be fine to use as long as your on a level piece of road if it has to much camber the back can [can] step out a little or alot...I personal don't use the rear brake on gravel unless I'm getting wheel spin going up a hill [a form of traction control...I keep the throttle about the same and apply alittle rear brake till the wheel spin stops]....and hav fun kiddies :done:

far queue

13th February 2006, 19:07

I have to say I quite enjoy it and might have to think about getting a trail bike...:msn-wink:

Yeah, that's the story swap the SV650 for a DR650, have fun on road and off :2thumbsup

Mental Trousers

13th February 2006, 19:23

SHould be more careful with explaining these things I guess. I should've added that you don't actually want to stand up as such, just put quite a bit of your weight through the pegs.

far queue

13th February 2006, 19:57

Yeah, that's the story swap the SV650 for a DR650, have fun on road and off :2thumbsup
... or, you could try this ... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=24632

Milky

13th February 2006, 23:16

I personal don't use the rear brake on gravel unless I'm getting wheel spin going up a hill [a form of traction control...I keep the throttle about the same and apply alittle rear brake till the wheel spin stops]

The man speaks wise words - I use that technique for most loose surfaces and it works a treat. Settles the bike down a huge amount, and even if you do not notice the rear spinning as such, try it out anyway. It smooths out the drive and stops the wheel skipping over large stones or ruts.

scumdog

14th February 2006, 00:25

Hmm, two-up on my crappy Harley Sportster I wouldn't go faster than 100kph (the law says I shouldn't)
But I stick in about 3rd gear with foot hovering on the brake pedal.
Not meeting tractors is good too - especially if they are heading in th opposite direction.
And try and stay away from ruts and corrugations etc.

Fishy

14th February 2006, 07:02

listen to uncles Poo's real good kids....I live on a gravel road...a longish one...

Hey Mr Poos, do you have dusty shit all through your bike where cloths and sponges can't get at to clean? My driveway is 400m long, is dirt and gravel and it fuckens covers the bike in shit every time I go out.

How do you clean the inside of your front fairing area where the speedo and headlights n shit are? or is it all accessible on the gixxer without having to pull things apart?

Krusti

14th February 2006, 07:55

Number 1.....look as far ahead as possible. If you find yourself looking just in front of your bike force yourself to look at least 100 m ahead. Goes for riding on any surface as well.

Motu

14th February 2006, 08:03

Can't really help with the specific post - I don't ride sprotsbikes on seal,let alone gravel,so have no real clue to the troubles you'll get into....but I can guess.

A certain amount of speed is important,this smooths out the bumps,the bike will just float over them.It also gets the gyroscopic forces of your wheels working,this allows your bike to function as it was designed,not a 200kg dead weight that keeps wanting to fall over - dirt bikes have bigger dia wheels to roll over bumps better,and the gyroscopic forces come into play earlier.You can certainly use a lot more front brake than you think,but I use my rear brake a lot - after a gravel road dash my rear brake is smoking and the rotor blue,the front brake is just warm to touch.The rear brake acts as a sea anchor,pulling from the rear,keeping you pointed where you want to go.Over braking will produce a rear wheel slide,sometimes losing control over the rear wheel and you may not get it together in time to make the turn...so be careful.Entering a turn sideways is advanced stuff,and you need a clear view of the exit before you do that.

I use a lot of road,and when I can see through a corner will cut a right hander to the gutter,this keeps things smooth and gets you out of the loose stuff on the outside - use caution there,you need to be looking well ahead on gravel,scanning well ahead for clues on road condition,where it's going and oncoming traffic.Data inputs to your brain are far greater than you'll get on seal....one of the reasons I like to ride gravel,lots more is happening.I will sometimes ride the right wheel track completely as it is often smoother...corrugations happen at corner entry and exit,be aware they are there.Keep it smooth and loose,cross the wheel tracks under power...let it shake,it's no big deal and will settle down in the next wheel track.

Don't worry if it all feels too much - I've done a hell of a lot of gravel,it's what I go out and do when I ride - and I still have times when I find it diffucult going,on a dirt bike with knobs even.

skelstar

14th February 2006, 08:06

Motu - I imagine that the camber of corners is significantly more pronounced on gravel? And perhaps would affect a bike considerably more as a result?

Motu

14th February 2006, 08:35

For sure,they can be very difficult,and you can use them to your advantage.One a right hander you can see through (very important that bit) you can ride down the camber to the inside,then up the camber to the next left hander - the surface will be smoother and the line straighter.But a blind down hill off camber right is a real nasty one - you have to stay out wide because you can't see through to the exit,all the loose stuff is thrown to the outside.So you end up going slow and wobbling though all the loose stuff.DHOCRs and newly laid thick gravel are the worst stuff on gravel roads.

A series of cambered corners are good fun - straighten them out and hit them hard on full throttle and you can leap off the up cambers.

The_Dover

14th February 2006, 08:51

Mr Poo's doesn't wash his balls, let alone his bike. He's a dirty farm boy.

cowpoos

14th February 2006, 10:21

Hey Mr Poos, do you have dusty shit all through your bike where cloths and sponges can't get at to clean? My driveway is 400m long, is dirt and gravel and it fuckens covers the bike in shit every time I go out.

How do you clean the inside of your front fairing area where the speedo and headlights n shit are? or is it all accessible on the gixxer without having to pull things apart?

well those that know me kinow that I really don't clean my bike much....but when I do I use a a feather duster [thats not acctually feather] and a cloth wraped around a small stick for hard scrubing.....works really well.... my biggest problem in the chain....oil it....gets covered in dust straight away...so solution....don't oil it much and develop a protective layer of crap.... :2thumbsup

Fishy

14th February 2006, 10:38

Cheers man, yep I know what you mean about the shit all over the chain!. That dusty shit stick to my lchain like a fat kid on a cupcake!.

far queue

14th February 2006, 15:11

Hmm, two-up on my crappy Harley Sportster ... Not meeting tractors is good too - especially if they are heading in th opposite direction

mmm OK, we all know that smaller gives way to bigger. Yeah, that's not the way it's supposed to work, but if you want to stay alive it pays to be aware of it. So what happens when your tractor meets another tractor scumdog?

ManDownUnder

14th February 2006, 15:18

I don;t claim any expertise opn the issue... but I can confirm the only pieces of advice I was ever given on the subject have served me well...

Lower gear and keep a little power on. This lifts both wheels (the rear is down but climbing, and the front is lighter).

Don't "steer" - point the front wheel "in about the right direction" and follow it.

Bend your arms - allow the front to bounce around a little more if it wants to.

Stay out of gravel mounds, go for the worn grooves.

Bias the rear brake - it keeps extra weight on the front wheel meaning you can use the front brake to greater effect - or steer... but not both at the same time.

In soft stuff (i.e. sand) don't stop unless you have to. Keep it in a slightly higher gear to stop it spinning up and burrowing in.

scumdog

14th February 2006, 21:25

mmm OK, we all know that smaller gives way to bigger. Yeah, that's not the way it's supposed to work, but if you want to stay alive it pays to be aware of it. So what happens when your tractor meets another tractor scumdog?

Hmm, funny bastard eh?
USUALLY I get around the tractor!!:motu:

motobob

14th February 2006, 21:30

Don't know about being smooth in the stuff. I reckon you just get aggressive with the throttle and slide or fishtail the rear. Heaps of fun on a gixxer. Key is to get used to having the bike move under you. Course I grew up on skinny tyres not the fat donuts on bikes now.

CowPoos yah poof only 120 KmH in the metal!. 200K is much more fun.

Another reason not to jump on to big bikes too early. If only I could ride like this in the rain.

cowpoos

14th February 2006, 21:45

CowPoos yah poof only 120 KmH in the metal!. 200K is much more fun.
.

you trash talkin me fella....wanna race? :sherlock:

boomer

14th February 2006, 22:16

you trash talkin me fella....wanna race? :sherlock:

Poo's.. before you getting ya self in shit.. this aint a soggy biscuit race..K??!!:yeah:

Wasp

14th February 2006, 22:30

5ks, pah don't make me laugh. I got my license in oct last year and was 50 kms from martinborough of which 30kms was gravel for the week before new years. (end brag)

Posh Tourer :P

15th February 2006, 08:48

what I would do is trail the rear brake. Not enough to slow you down, but enough to stop it spinning up slightly everytime it gets over a stone or so. I dont think spinning up the rear on road tyres really helps, as it gets out of control without the knobs to provide the traction.... Of course, a little spinning up can be good aswell. but I think it is very hard to control. Also, let the front end do what it wants (within reason). If you approach a deep patch of gravel, point in the right direction, and let the bike do what it wants as it goes through.

Of course I´m on an old BMW with skinny (3.50-19 and 4.00-18 rear) tyres, but they are´t knobbly, and the above really helps.....

motobob

20th February 2006, 21:31

you trash talkin me fella....wanna race? :sherlock:

Ha ha. Showdown at Taupo III huh. Bring it on dude. Heard you binned out practising to wax my tail. :shifty:

What is it with you young fulla's got to pick on an old man who is just learning to ride again. I've got K19 all over me at Puke as well now. Jeez.

I'm getting a target painted on the back of my leathers just so you guys don't get confused as to which yellow gixxer I ride. We're starting to congregate in packs up in the north now (just to confuse the constablery). So this will help you get the right guy.

Anyway hope yer mending well.

KATWYN

20th February 2006, 21:49

DON"T STAND UP!!!! because of your shit for purpose tyres u want the centre of gravity as low as posible...especially for any little slides as its much easyer to control...:

Ok uncle ya learn summit new everyday. I was standing up on the bike pegs
yesterday on the gravel on our ride. - I always stand on the pegs on gravel,I thought
thats what ya do ??-
It feels safer for me too?? (am used to off roading btw)

Now i'm all confused what do I do ?......arghhhh :eek:

Jantar

20th February 2006, 22:05

Like cowpoos, I also do a lot a gravel riding on a sports/tourer and our driveway is just over 1 km of gravel. I find it is a lot of fun riding a big road bike in gravel, but there are a few things to watch. Much of the advice already given on this thread is apropriate and safe, but there are many item that can be improved on.

The first thing to consider is your bike/tyre combination. That nice sticky sports tyre that gives so much grip on a dry sealed road is not ideal for a surface that is loose or has a lubricating coating like fine dust on it. Your bike may have 100+ HP at the back wheel, but your tyre is only going to transfer about 30 HP to the road surface before it breaks loose, so a lower gear may not be appropriate if it is going to allow your engine to rev well into the power band. If anything, I tend to ride one gear higher than I would for the same speed on a sealed surface. Ideally your engine revs should be quite low, but not so low as to bog down the engine. You should be able wind on plenty of throttle and get a nice smooth response without exceeding around 30 HP at the rear wheel.

Many gravel roads have corrigations in the wheel tracks, yet the wheel tracks are the part of the road that will provide you with the most grip. When riding over a corragated surface you must either keep your speed very low (walking pace) or travel at a speed that allows your suspension to work and absorb the bumps so that it feels like you are gliding over the surface. The actual speed will depend on your bike's suspension setup, the wheelbase, and the frequency of corragation. On our driveway I generally find 65 kmh or above is comfortable on the GS1200SS yet the RE5 on the same road is comfortable at 45 kmh and above. Perhaps I should take this thread as a reminder to grade the driveway this week.

If you can stand on the footpegs in a reasonably upright postion and still comfortably reach the bars, then that is the ideal riding position. However with most sprot bikes standing on the pegs will have you leaning so far forward that you will look and feel like a hunchback preparing to take a dive. In this case you are better off sitting down, but put your weight on the footpegs, and not on your bum. This helps keep the center of gravity of the bike as low as possible, and allows the bike to move around on a loose surface independantly of the rider.

I use mainly the front brake for slowing down, and the rear brake only very carefully. Braking performance is better than you would expect, but prepare to slow down for corners a lot earlier than you would on a sealed surface.

Wash you bike more frequently after gravel riding, and pay attention to the chain. It will dry out and stretch quicker with a layer of gravel dust on it.

Incidentally, much of my gravel riding experience on large sport/tourer bikes goes back to when we used to have a national road trial championship. I believe that there hasn't been a national championship since the NZACU sanctioned KiwiRider 500 in 1989. Prior to that they were held quite regularly. And the national champion in 1989? :first: Well, I'm still riding... :o

ZeroIndex

6th March 2006, 08:04

My thoughts so far of the little bit of gravel riding I've done, is grip the tank hard with your legs, and switch the frong 70% / rear 30% braking to front 40% / rear 60%

...just my 2 cents

Edbear

6th March 2006, 10:46

Been out to Tawharenui but not on the bike, a trip worth the trouble though it's a nice spot. Last gravel road I did was to Sth Head where the last 4k's were gravel. The F handles well on gravel, partly I think because of the weight and the skinnier tyres. Just let the front end go pretty much how it wants and relax. Biggest problem is the short suspension travel on a road bike, and it really isn't pleasant feeling the corrugations hammering the blazes out of the fairing! It's already cracked so I try to avoid gravel only for that reason. Usually get along around 80kp/h and the bike's really steady at those speeds. Always very cautious about braking, don't really want to try lifting 200kg off the road! The DR650 would have to be about the 'bee's knees' for NZ roads. Good weight, exc comfort, adequate power and handles everything you can fling at it, or so I've heard. Not ridden one, but apart from not really liking the style, I think it would have to be on my short list when I upgrade.

Jantar

9th March 2006, 22:54

My thoughts so far of the little bit of gravel riding I've done, is grip the tank hard with your legs, and switch the frong 70% / rear 30% braking to front 40% / rear 60%

...just my 2 cents

I would strongly recommend that you use more front brake than rear. There is less grip on gravel, and that rear wheel will lock up real quick if you try to apply 60% braking force at the rear. Once it does lock up your rate of decelleration is reduced, and you will have minimal directional control. Its a good way to find yourself over a bank, or even worse, heading head first for on oncoming vehicle. :thud:

ZeroIndex

10th March 2006, 12:02

I would strongly recommend that you use more front brake than rear. There is less grip on gravel, and that rear wheel will lock up real quick if you try to apply 60% braking force at the rear. Once it does lock up your rate of decelleration is reduced, and you will have minimal directional control. Its a good way to find yourself over a bank, or even worse, heading head first for on oncoming vehicle. :thud:
I blame my poor braking skills on my friend who attempted to teach my on his farm bike in Te Kauwhata... he reckons "stay off the front brakes as much as possible" hence why I lost the back of my bike twice when it rained on Tuesday. But I have learnt to brake properly now...

Ixion

10th March 2006, 12:37

I blame my poor braking skills on my friend who attempted to teach my on his farm bike in Te Kauwhata... he reckons "stay off the front brakes as much as possible" hence why I lost the back of my bike twice when it rained on Tuesday. But I have learnt to brake properly now...

This is ture in soft sand. Do not use front brake in soft sand.

Motu

10th March 2006, 12:38

Your smooth rear tyre will ride up on top of the stones under braking,reducing their effectivness.A knob will scoop the stones before it,and also dig down to dirt.My rear disc smokes and turns blue in gravel.

Ixion

10th March 2006, 12:42

Bonez

10th March 2006, 15:59

My rear disc smokes and turns blue in gravel.May I suggest your disc take some sort of therapy for it's smoking addiction. Next it'll be taking harder stuff........................:doobey: :doobey: :doobey:

pritch

28th April 2006, 16:53

DON"T STAND UP!!!! because of your shit for purpose tyres u want the centre of gravity as low as posible...

Odd as it may seem standing on the pegs does lower your c of g and steadies the bike.

On the one lap commentary Shaun Harris did for the 2003 IoM TT he mentions more than once that he does the rougher bits with his bum off the seat for that very reason.

kickingzebra

28th April 2006, 16:58

I blame my poor braking skills on my friend who attempted to teach my on his farm bike in Te Kauwhata... he reckons "stay off the front brakes as much as possible" hence why I lost the back of my bike twice when it rained on Tuesday. But I have learnt to brake properly now...
Are you still dropping that jolly thing?? Have a heart!!

thehollowmen

28th April 2006, 18:44

Odd as it may seem standing on the pegs does lower your c of g and steadies the bike.

No it doesn't. It makes you a sprung mass.

SwanTiger

28th April 2006, 20:31

In loose gravel with road tyres it is a good idea to deliberately lock the rear wheel at the start of braking. This causes the wheel to "snow plow" and dig down through the gravel to something solid, instead of (as Mr Motu says) skipping along on top of the stones. Then ease off a bit and brake normally

What Mr. Ixion said is absoloutely true.

I learnt to ride on gravel roads with a bike that only had a rear drum brake. With it being an old fucked drum brake it was either fully engaged or not at all. This meant that I got use to sliding the arse end around corners.

Think about what you do when you counter-steer with the handle bars on bitumen, effectively you are dragging the arse end around. Because there is a lack of traction (i.e. Gravel) you cannot do this with the front wheel on gravel roads.

So you need a different approach.

Motorcross bikes have larger front tyres to make this possible so that the rear will drag itself around.

On a sportsbike it is obviously completely different, so the easiest way to "gravel counter-steer" is to use the rear brake. Locking them up enough to cause loss of traction and to give you control of the arse end does the trick.

Once you have control, you can guide it around a corner, however until you get use to it and can maintain the correct speed it may fishtail more than you want.

When I come up to a corner I'll brake hard, locking up and digging down to the hard stuff. This will easily shave off 30kmp/h or more before you are actually at the corner. Once at the corner I drag the rear in a little bit and then release and throttle hard spinning the wheele slightly.

By this point I'm at the apex and begin to straighten up and nail it.

Things to remember:

Sit hard up against the fuel tank
Sit as upright as possible
Put your foot down where possible (skimming it)
Gas it up!
Remeber: your front tyre is your lifeline

Take it with a grain of salt, I'm a newbie through and through, but that is how I navigate gravel and love riding on it.

The particular route that Miss Keystone is talking about makes for some good riding. It is quite tricky and narrow and provides you with an array of corners to digest. One of the most beautiful roads Auckland'ish has to offer in my opinion - with an equally beautiful "destination".

Qkkid

28th April 2006, 20:39

grit your teeth keystone

paturoa

28th April 2006, 20:46

Done heaps over the years and got me thinking .... its hard to know what you do unless you are doing it at the time.

Keep your weight as far forward as possible on gravel. The more planted u can keep the front the better.

Don't recommend throttle if you dont like the slide with road tyres as gives less grip if spinning.

The post above talking about rear as sea achor rang a bell for me too.

I'm sure I do more of a point squirt and brake technique rather than trying to keep up corner speeds, more fun that way too.

All (both) offs on gravel roads on my road bikes have been front wheel wash outs around right handers when I drifted out of the rut.

cowpoos

28th April 2006, 21:26

What Mr. Ixion said is absoloutely true.

I learnt to ride on gravel roads with a bike that only had a rear drum brake. With it being an old fucked drum brake it was either fully engaged or not at all. This meant that I got use to sliding the arse end around corners.

Think about what you do when you counter-steer with the handle bars on bitumen, effectively you are dragging the arse end around. Because there is a lack of traction (i.e. Gravel) you cannot do this with the front wheel on gravel roads.

So you need a different approach.

Motorcross bikes have larger front tyres to make this possible so that the rear will drag itself around.

On a sportsbike it is obviously completely different, so the easiest way to "gravel counter-steer" is to use the rear brake. Locking them up enough to cause loss of traction and to give you control of the arse end does the trick.

Once you have control, you can guide it around a corner, however until you get use to it and can maintain the correct speed it may fishtail more than you want.

When I come up to a corner I'll brake hard, locking up and digging down to the hard stuff. This will easily shave off 30kmp/h or more before you are actually at the corner. Once at the corner I drag the rear in a little bit and then release and throttle hard spinning the wheele slightly.

By this point I'm at the apex and begin to straighten up and nail it.

Things to remember:

Sit hard up against the fuel tank
Sit as upright as possible
Put your foot down where possible (skimming it)
Gas it up!
Remeber: your front tyre is your lifeline

Take it with a grain of salt, I'm a newbie through and through, but that is how I navigate gravel and love riding on it.

The particular route that Miss Keystone is talking about makes for some good riding. It is quite tricky and narrow and provides you with an array of corners to digest. One of the most beautiful roads Auckland'ish has to offer in my opinion - with an equally beautiful "destination".
errr.....a lil true....but most of it...not so much me thinks....

if I go around a corner at 40kmph or more on a dirt bike or a road bike...I hav to counter steer...otherwise shit just won't work bro...larger front tyre is for hittin holes and bumps and letting the wheel ride over or through rather than providing a pivot point to end on ya head...

traction is the key to fast and safe riding...road bike or off road bike [motard boys make their own rules]...locking brakes unsettles the chassis...you loose a small amount of control at the instant you break traction...where as before you break traction you have complete control...I know what your trying to say about digging a hole in the gravel to find traction...but not so much with a road bias tyre...I ride very smooth and very much with absaloute traction on my road bike while on gravel...being smooth with inputs,body movements,throttle,etc...is the key to riding well on gravel...the biggest obsacle to over come is apprehension....thats where most people fail.

cowboyz

29th April 2006, 05:20

The main key thing to think about is to try not thinking about the damage to your paintwork/fairings/chain/how long its going to take to clean the bike again. Sportsbike were not designed for gravel rides. If you HAVE to go down a gravel road then all tips above are good except locking the brakes up. Dont lock your brakes up. try to stay on the hard stuff and think about who owes you a favour to clean your bike.

Kendog

29th April 2006, 07:43

My heart drops whenever I see roadworks signs. I don't have too much of a problem on straight level grades, but if we have to go down hill or corner I find it a little hard.:eek: I always ride into gravel in second and try to keep the revs steady, but going down a hill, momentum takes hold and I start picking up speed. So I normally just keep the back brake pretty much just on enough to keep the bike at a constant speed. Is this right, or am I an accident waiting to happen?
Mrs KD

SwanTiger

29th April 2006, 08:58

the biggest obsacle to over come is apprehension....thats where most people fail.

That be true Mr. Pooey.

pritch

29th April 2006, 13:13

No it doesn't. It makes you a sprung mass.

I'm no expert but I would have thought I was sprung mass whether my weight was on my fat arse or on my feet. Since I'm not part of the suspension.

Since the pegs are approaching half a metre lower than the seat, weighting the pegs instead of the seat must lower the c of g .

Motu

29th April 2006, 14:21

Crasherfromwayback

29th April 2006, 14:27

I think it was 'Jantar' that mentioned using a higher gear, and I'm with that 100%, not only for what was mentioned there, but also in a higher gear engine braking is not as pronounced, so you don't get such a violent weight transfer to the front tyre just when you don't want or need it.
When I went from a KX500 (very little engine braking) to my RMZ450 (plenty of engine braking), I really struggled with the front end burying it's self in soft sand (not that different to deep gravel) when I shut it down.
When I ride in deep soft sand now, I wind the idle up to combat the effect, bit like riding your road bike in a higher gear.
Try and practice riding your bike at lowish speed while applying more and more (really progressivley, NOT aggressively) front brake until you get to the point of lock up.....see how far you can ride the bike in a straight line with the wheel locked. THE best practice you can do.....once you've learnt what it feels like locked, you'll never panic and bin it when you do have a wee lock up, just ease off and carry on!

Jantar

29th April 2006, 14:58

No,standing on the pegs doesn't lower the CG,your weight may be on the pegs,but your body mass is now higher.I don't like to stand on gravel roads - oh,some people are very fast standing up on gravel,but I think you'll find they are fast no matter what they do.

On a sprotbike, I weight the pegs rather than stand on them. The idea being that that the bike can move around a bit more under you. The total C of G of the bike rider combination is indeed higher, but as the bike can move a small amount independant of the rider it will act as though the C of G is lower. I would not suggest that you try and stand on the pegs on a sprot bike. The ergonomics are not set up for that, and you would only succed in transferring weight further forward. Ideally, if there is to be any weight transfer it should be further rearward.

Motu

29th April 2006, 16:01

I've found the bikes that feel best on gravel are what these days would be termed ''classic'',but really just the old bikes.They have a more even weight distribution,the sports bike has far too much over the front wheel,a dirt bike not enough.When I do a lot of kms on gravel I find my inner thighs hurt - that's how I'm moving the bike around,I don't put my leg out,it's just from weighting my inside leg.

I've found it great going to a 2 stroke Crasher - corner entry is a breeze,I can do brake slides and stuff,make a mess of it and overshoot...what the hell,it doesn't matter what you do.And mid corner when you hit the thick loose stuff it just goes over it like it's not there,a big thumper will bury the front and you'll be sawing on the bars fighting for control.Mind you,when you get the gas on there's a bit more work to do!

cowpoos

29th April 2006, 20:27

When I went from a KX500 (very little engine braking) to my RMZ450 (plenty of engine braking), I really struggled with the front end burying it's self in soft sand (not that different to deep gravel) when I shut it down.
When I ride in deep soft sand now, I wind the idle up to combat the effect, bit like riding your road bike in a higher gear.

I throttle a lil as soon as I turn on sand...winding more throttle on till I get a lil oversteer as I'm turning to sharpin it....take a bit to change your brain but works very well.....thou...I mite try your technqe next time I'm out hav a play on the dirt bike...havn't thought bout that....hmm

carver

29th April 2006, 21:27

i find the main thing is keeping your wheels at 90 degrees with the slope of the cambered corners, i stay in the left wheel track for as long as possible!
tire pressures are a biggie, i run 20 psi at the front and 25ish at the back :gob: it helps to smooth out the feedback, and lets you hang on less and relax more.
i put my weight forward, and use the rear brake and gears a lot for slowing down, i "feather" the front brake.
use power to keep you where you want to be, i find once you loose your nerve and hit the anchors stuff goes bad.
look ahead and try get it smooth and flowing
i got a record, i challange anyone to try it
i rode a 03 suzuki Burgman 250 down pironghia west road (high up the mt to kawhia) and only came close to loosing it once
unsure of what a burgman is? http://www.dailymotos.com/backoffice/images_dinamic/tbl_Pruebas_imagen_opinion_5.jpg
20kmh of sheer hell.

Jantar

29th April 2006, 22:13

tire pressures are a biggie, i run 20 psi at the front and 25ish at the back :gob: it helps to smooth out the feedback, and lets you hang on less and relax more.
i put my weight forward, and use the rear brake and gears a lot for slowing down, i "feather" the front brake.
use power to keep you where you want to be, i find once you loose your nerve and hit the anchors stuff goes bad.
look ahead and try get it smooth and flowing
i got a record, i challange anyone to try it
i rode a 03 suzuki Burgman 250 down pironghia west road (high up the mt to kawhia) and only came close to loosing it once
unsure of what a burgman is? http://www.dailymotos.com/backoffice/images_dinamic/tbl_Pruebas_imagen_opinion_5.jpg
20kmh of sheer hell.

You are on a KLR, hardly a sprot bike. Remember that when riding a sprotbike on gravel it will normally be set up for the open road. That means no playing with tyre pressures or anything similar. Sprotbikes already have too much weight forward, and that is the reason for NOT standing on the pegs.

As for the Pironghia West Road? I love that road. pure delight, not hell. It was one of the roads in the 1989 Kiwi Rider 500, and I absolutely blitzed it on a GSX750. Didn't even come close to losing it. But the road from Kawhia to Raglan gave me a fright when I came too close to a holiday bus at a rather high speed.

carver

3rd May 2006, 14:26

You are on a KLR, hardly a sprot bike. Remember that when riding a sprotbike on gravel it will normally be set up for the open road. That means no playing with tyre pressures or anything similar. Sprotbikes already have too much weight forward, and that is the reason for NOT standing on the pegs.

As for the Pironghia West Road? I love that road. pure delight, not hell. It was one of the roads in the 1989 Kiwi Rider 500, and I absolutely blitzed it on a GSX750. Didn't even come close to losing it. But the road from Kawhia to Raglan gave me a fright when I came too close to a holiday bus at a rather high speed.
well, the wheels on the burger aint exactly big, and i had a passanger on it too!:doobey:
they are very unstable at low speeds, have a long wheel base, a automatic tranny (no engine braking) and you sit with your feet forward on a deck! no pegs.
kawhia raglan is easy, if you need something good try raglan- pt waikato!
might do it soon.
did that on my DT 175