Speed? Not necessarily dangerous!

[oldrider]

I have been taking notice now for quite a long time and I believe that

"Failing to keep to the left"

or not staying on their side of the road, is the most prevalent rule that drivers of "all" types of vehicles break. (Referring to open highway driving)

Everything else is usually a contributing factor to that breach of the road code.

Speed doesn't really matter much as long as all the other rules are observed.

If speed is dangerous it's usually because another part of the code is breached as well.

What do other people think? :spudwhat:

If this has been done to death before, teach me how to delete the thread! :hitcher: Cheers, John.

[Ixion]

Failing to ensure that you can stop in the clear length of road ahead, IMHO.

And if you take clear to mean "clear and hazard free", and stick with that, then any speed is safe - barring acts of God, like meteorites.

("hazard free" means, no side roads, no farm entranceways , unless anything on them is covered by the "can stop" bit. No matter what speed you are doing, if you can stop before any possible hazrd, it's pretty safe)

[Motu]

Yep,definatly inability to stop safely in the length of clear road ahead.To me it covers 90% of ''accidents''.

[madboy]

I get really sick of the people on this site who seem to think that speed is safe. It's not. If you speed, be prepared to kill. It's a fact. Our government says so, and since more of us voted for them than any other party, it must be true. Because they never lie.

Take me for example. I died on the way home from the hospital when my parents cracked 80 in their 1970-something Toyota. No airbags, no ABS, no pre-tensioners, crossply tyres, drum brakes. And shit that median barrier wasn't that hot in those days. Yeah, I was dead on day one. And I guess since I speed every single day I must have been dead ever since.

It's fine to not keep left, just so long as you do it under the speed limit.

[KLOWN]

although being able to stop safely in the amount of road you can see depends on where you are looking, if , like alot of drivers you are looking at the end of your bonnet you would have to drive around at about 10k/h to be safe. Thats y imho there are alot of nose to tails, as well as people following too close. I think crossing the white line is one of the most 'done' things on our roads and it drives me CRAZY!! Quite often its some old fart doing 20 under the limit or some speeder that can't handle thier car at the speed they are doin. My mates girlfriend crosses the white line all the time, even to the point that the whole car is on the wrong side of the road, my mate and I give here heaps for it but she thinks there is nothing wrong with doing it :weird: and also my mate and I are more dangerous cause we exceed the speed limit (without going over the white line). I know i've talked for ages but this isn't one tenth of what i want to say on this topic it really gets me worked up!!!

[bluninja]

Wow.....crossing the white line is bad???? So offsiding to get a better view through a left hand bend/curve must be really insane. I remember my advanced riding instructer telling me how dangerous it was (that bits true). I avoided several collisions in NZ because I could see the idiot cutting the corner and have time to get back to the nearside (and they could see me earlier too). Having said that, it's possible they could move the 'wrong' way to avoid the person on 'their' side of the road and take me out anyway....that's why it's dangerous.

If I drove to the distance I could safely stop in I would be stationary. Every time I increase the gap on motorways for safety somebody moves into that gap...everytime I leave a proper gap on residential roads people see it as an invite to pull out and 'park' in front of me.

[miSTa]

Failing to ensure that you can stop in the clear length of road ahead

A big +1 on that as well. You've just got to give yourself a margin of error.

[Finn]

Just look at the Autobahn if you want proof. Speed is very safe in the right conditions.

[miSTa]

Plus you've got the Northern Territory with no speed limits as well. It's not speed as such but speed for the conditions.

[Grahameeboy]

Just look at the Autobahn if you want proof. Speed is very safe in the right conditions.

Psst....don't tell the Govt...........speed also gets you out of trouble too and the following is interesting:

NZ has one of the lowest average speed limits in the world yet has one of the highest deaths per capita.......

100k = 66mph.....UK limit is 70mph and some of you will know that traffic flows much faster than that on the motorway....and he Police do not get funny about it.

In UK the speed varies....30, 40, 50, 60 mph so as you leave a really built up area the speed limit increases....makes sense and improves driver skils....in NZ it is either 50kph or 100kph except the bridge which is 80kph........real accident spot that...not.........this cannot be good.

Remember 30% of accidents are caused by speed...but 70% are not caused by speed........

[KLOWN]

Psst....don't tell the Govt...........speed also gets you out of trouble too and the following is interesting:

NZ has one of the lowest average speed limits in the world yet has one of the highest deaths per capita.......

100k = 66mph.....UK limit is 70mph and some of you will know that traffic flows much faster than that on the motorway....and he Police do not get funny about it.

In UK the speed varies....30, 40, 50, 60 mph so as you leave a really built up area the speed limit increases....makes sense and improves driver skils....in NZ it is either 50kph or 100kph except the bridge which is 80kph........real accident spot that...not.........this cannot be good.

Remember 30% of accidents are caused by speed...but 70% are not caused by speed........ I bet that the 30% of accidents that are caused by speed involved oher probs aswell, like crossing the white line or some dumbshit who can't drive.

[KLOWN]

Wow.....crossing the white line is bad???? So offsiding to get a better view through a left hand bend/curve must be really insane. I remember my advanced riding instructer telling me how dangerous it was (that bits true). I avoided several collisions in NZ because I could see the idiot cutting the corner and have time to get back to the nearside (and they could see me earlier too). Having said that, it's possible they could move the 'wrong' way to avoid the person on 'their' side of the road and take me out anyway....that's why it's dangerous.

If I drove to the distance I could safely stop in I would be stationary. Every time I increase the gap on motorways for safety somebody moves into that gap...everytime I leave a proper gap on residential roads people see it as an invite to pull out and 'park' in front of me.

Ok I should have been more specific, crossing the white line on a corner when u can't see whats coming. If its a long straight road with no other road users about you cann drive on the wrong side of the road for all i care.

[Lou Girardin]

You're right Madboy, I've died hundreds of times. Even this morning I had a near death experience when I did 51 km/h.
In fact, I'm thinking of sueing the Govt for allowing me to speed officially and getting me hooked on the feeling.
It's worked for undercover cops hooked on dope, so why not me?

[Grahameeboy]

I bet that the 30% of accidents that are caused by speed involved oher probs aswell, like crossing the white line or some dumbshit who can't drive.

Yep, if you take out "Didn't stop cause I was going to fast"; "Didn't see him cause he was going too fast" which contain the "Speed" element to enter under speed related accidents it works out that just 4% of accident involve actual excessive speed....

[bugjuice]

I can't stand the fact that people drive in whatever lane they want at whatever speed they want. Fucks me off big time. I've seen people join the motorway, and hit the brakes hard to join the slow moving right hand lane?!?!?! wtf?!?! they feel bad cos they're in a free flowing lane already?!!? ffs

FUCKING LEARN TO DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of town, on the single lane roads, when a passing lane comes up, it says 'Keep left unless passing'. Is that so hard to do on motorways??!?!!?!?!! gah!!!!!!!!!!! :brick:

[Grahameeboy]

I can't stand the fact that people drive in whatever lane they want at whatever speed they want. Fucks me off big time. I've seen people join the motorway, and hit the brakes hard to join the slow moving right hand lane?!?!?! wtf?!?! they feel bad cos they're in a free flowing lane already?!!? ffs

FUCKING LEARN TO DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of town, on the single lane roads, when a passing lane comes up, it says 'Keep left unless passing'. Is that so hard to do on motorways??!?!!?!?!! gah!!!!!!!!!!! :brick:

Hey you alright BJ............fancy a beer on me tonight? PM me if you do matey......

[oldrider]

What prompted me to post on this issue was an accident that held us up on our return from Nelson last week.

Two vehicles (There may have been more) were involved, a car and a van, hit almost head on, on a bend, it appeared.

This was on the South side of the Hope Saddle. Sunday 12 Feb circa mid day.

There was debris scattered over a very wide area of the road and surrounding embankments.

A casual observation in passing would indicate crossing of the white line by at least one of the vehicles and the distribution of the accident area would suggest excessive speed by at least one of them.

This may of course be a completely wrong observation I accept that.

We have not been able to hear or learn anything else about what happened perhaps some one in the Nelson are may be able to enlighten us.

As a passenger all the way up and back I just amused myself observing the behaviour of road users in general. Not a good look.

This is not a holier than thou rant, I do some pretty silly and risky things at times too.

Doesn't make it right though. :whistle: Cheers John.

[Rashika]

In UK the speed varies....30, 40, 50, 60 mph so as you leave a really built up area the speed limit increases....makes sense and improves driver skils....in NZ it is either 50kph or 100kph except the bridge which is 80kph........real accident spot that...not.........this cannot be good.

ummm down here so do we ...lots of places are 60 kms especially if they are mostly non residential and/or double lane areas, few 70s and 80s as well.

it is becoming more common to see these speed variations now...altho one area i ride on the old pushie is 60kms, but you'd think the sign actually said "fuckin hoof along at any old speed you like, and dont even comtemplate going 60 or under...oh and dont worry about the poor wee cyclist on the apparently invisible cycle lane...I'm sure they dont mind when you run them down"

[Grahameeboy]

ummm down here so do we ...lots of places are 60 kms especially if they are mostly non residential and/or double lane areas, few 70s and 80s as well.

it is becoming more common to see these speed variations now...altho one area i ride on the old pushie is 60kms, but you'd think the sign actually said "fuckin hoof along at any old speed you like, and dont even comtemplate going 60 or under...oh and dont worry about the poor wee cyclist on the apparently invisible cycle lane...I'm sure they dont mind when you run them down"

Interesting.......I think it is sensible because drivers have more freedom and I believe that this makes sensible drivers...good on Christchurch.....love South Island....

[Lou Girardin]

All my cage induced frights have been by pricks cutting corners. Make it a capital offence I reckon.
Then there's drivers who drive on the centre line, even when there's 2 metres clear road on their left. Haven't they heard of the safety cushion?
It's as if they'd rather have a head on than collide with a car door.

[miSTa]

Then there was the head-on crash between two trucks in the last week near Kaikoura. The article I read said that they hit head-on but didn't know what caused the crash - wtf, one was on the wrong side of the road! The trucking industry then turns around and blames the road and want the road widened at our cost for them.

[Rashika]

Then there was the head-on crash between two trucks in the last week near Kaikoura. The article I read said that they hit head-on but didn't know what caused the crash - wtf, one was on the wrong side of the road! The trucking industry then turns around and blames the road and want the road widened at our cost for them.
It would be interesting to know where that one actually happened. That road is particularly narrow in spots... there are certain spots you cant even get 2 trucks past each other, even if they stay in their own lanes!
But it was probably just carelessness on their part.

[Grahameeboy]

All my cage induced frights have been by pricks cutting corners. Make it a capital offence I reckon.
Then there's drivers who drive on the centre line, even when there's 2 metres clear road on their left. Haven't they heard of the safety cushion?
It's as if they'd rather have a head on than collide with a car door.

I ride and drive near the centre line as a safety cushion ie cars out of side roads......makes sense....will 2 meters/6 feet make all that difference.....it is really swings and roundabout and most likely scenario is someone pulling out plus I find that cagers stick their noses out before stopping.

[Lou Girardin]

I ride and drive near the centre line as a safety cushion ie cars out of side roads......makes sense....will 2 meters/6 feet make all that difference.....it is really swings and roundabout and most likely scenario is someone pulling out plus I find that cagers stick their noses out before stopping.

I was referring to cage drivers mainly. I'll also keep right in a lane if the main threat is likely from the left. But I won't risk a head-on to do it, which is quite likely when you have two clowns both on the centreline.

[Grahameeboy]

I was referring to cage drivers mainly. I'll also keep right in a lane if the main threat is likely from the left. But I won't risk a head-on to do it, which is quite likely when you have two clowns both on the centreline.

I am also a cage driver.....I keep to Centre still...use the same defensive skils as I do riding my bike.....believe it or not my huge Mazda MPVpeople carrier seems invisible sometimes.....I do have airbags so less exposed...

[myvice]

Speed doesn’t kill, slow reactions kill!

[Pathos]

I'll admit to doing naughty speeds that would lose my licence here and there and if you've got your fully concentration and no ones going to magically appear infront of you you'll be sweet.

But 10 years on the road has taught me to always give plenty of room to everyone around you, you never know what they hell they'll do. I think I sit about 1.5 seconds behind people. You need more if you aren't concentrating on the road, but that never happens to me on a motorcycle. I'm always ready to hit the brakes.

its idiots in heavy vehicles that don't realise/care how long it takes to brake and sit on your arse that cause many accidents. You see people following others then when the car in front turns they have to take evasive manuvers to miss it because they don't have the time to break...

[buellbabe]

Following distance is a biggie and obviously you adjust for whatever speed yr doing... PLUS be DEFENSIVE, expect those cagers to do something stoopid cos 9 times outta 10 they WILL.

[bluninja]

Ok I should have been more specific, crossing the white line on a corner when u can't see whats coming. If its a long straight road with no other road users about you cann drive on the wrong side of the road for all i care.

No don't be more specific. It leaves less room for me to make an ass of myself :bleh: on either side of the white line.

[Grahameeboy]

Following distance is a biggie and obviously you adjust for whatever speed yr doing... PLUS be DEFENSIVE, expect those cagers to do something stoopid cos 9 times outta 10 they WILL.

Yep....when ever the car in front pulls over and slows without indication you know that a u-turn is on the cards.....its a bugger.......a lot of people would just overtake whereas I wait to make sure what the cager is going to do and I have handled a lot of Insurance Claims where the following vehicle has overtaken in this situation when they cannot be sure what the front vehicle is doing and hey presto here is an accident.....non-fault just does not make things better does it.

I would rather have better awareness skills than fast riding skills any day...and that is what they teach you in the Advanced Bike/Car courses back in the UK....and what you find is that you still ride fast.

With following distance, by riding near the centre line, I find that I am not actually behind the cage in front (if you know what I mean) which gives you more braking distance.

[Lou Girardin]

I am also a cage driver.....I keep to Centre still.


As per my previous post, do you think hitting a car door or T boning another car is a greater evil than a offset head-on collision?

[Grahameeboy]

As per my previous post, do you think hitting a car door or T boning another car is a greater evil than a offset head-on collision?

When my Daughter is in car....NO!!:mellow:

[spudchucka]

All my cage induced frights have been by pricks cutting corners. Make it a capital offence I reckon.
A personal favourite of mine. $150 for being a lazy arsed wanker, love it.

[Motu]

But,but....it's OK for us Pajero drivers isn't it?

[Lou Girardin]

But,but....it's OK for us Pajero drivers isn't it?

You have an exemption. It's hard to steer with just one hand.

[Rashika]

You have an exemption. It's hard to steer with just one hand.
guess that all cantabs must have an exemption as well...us only have one eye and all :devil2:

[Lou Girardin]

guess that all cantabs must have an exemption as well...us only have one eye and all :devil2:

Maybe, but there's a physical reason why Pajero drivers only have one hand to steer with.
At least the name is apt.
Unlike Bighorn.

[SPman]

I must admit, that with the amount of yellow no passing lines around, all geared to the average car and drivers abilities and speeds, I will often pass and cross the line, if I know I have got clear roads throughout the 4 secs it takes for the manouvre. ...........Of course, this combines (illegal) speed, with making informed judgement calls on road conditions, driver behaviour, visibility ahead and possibility of obstructions/hazards. All perfectly safe in the situations I do it. Utilising the full spectrum of a bikes dynamics, which are so different from a cars or trucks. But, if caught, I am judged under the same criteria as cars or trucks! It is deemed to be highly dangerous in all aspects - excessive speed (shock horror, child killer!) Crossing the yellow, which, society KNOWS and the papers tell us, will lead immediately to a head on collision, killing innocent families of cute kids! We are becoming so obsessed with a "one size fits all", no allowance for different dynamics, numbers on a meter, enforcement policy, that we have lost sight of the objective.
Traffic policing should be in the hands of experienced, mature well trained police, who are given a broad set of sensible guidelines and then are left to do the job that’s important, ensuring the traffic is flowing in a safe manner for the conditions prevailing in the area and time, unhindered by obsessions on one small aspect (speed, generally), quotas, points, political agendas, etc. ie – discretion. More plain cars targeting erratic behaviour, bad driving practices, inconsiderate drivers…driven by cops who are actually aware and knowledgeable about what is going on. There are police out there who do try, but it seems more and more succumb to the pressures imposed by their bosses and political masters and take the easy way out....ie...hammer the motorist on areas which are easy to score on, speed being the major one.
The media dont help - equating a vehicle doing 140k on a clean deserted road in the wops, with doing 140 up a congested clogged motorway - its all speed to them, conditions dont even enter into it! Sensationalise it! Demonise it. Convince the majority of people who don’t actually turn their brains on when driving, that anyone who speeds, is somehow a dangerous lunatic, who will fly, totally out of control, into THEIR vehicle. Bring back local area cops…they generally know who to watch out for, who the loonies are, the big risk drivers in their area..and the local conditions (right Spud, SD)
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Shit – I’m raving again…. :o

[miSTa]

Shit – I’m raving again…. :o[/FONT]

You are indeed, trouble is it makes sense.

[buellbabe]

Well said SPman! Theres 1 thing that really irritates me when I'm on a group ride in heavy traffic... and thats when the bike in front of me CAN pass safely but WON'T bcos of dble yellow lines... aaaargh! You're on a bike for christs sake! You're not in a car!!!!!

[Rashika]

Well said SPman! Theres 1 thing that really irritates me when I'm on a group ride in heavy traffic... and thats when the bike in front of me CAN pass safely but WON'T bcos of dble yellow lines... aaaargh! You're on a bike for christs sake! You're not in a car!!!!!
yep, well that'd be me then... unless i can stay inside the dble yellows, then I will definately pass. Otherwise I wait, there is a reason for them being there (maybe not always appropriate nor apparent for a bike rider, but we do have to cater for the lowest common denominator on the roads eh?)...and it aint gonna kill me to wait, it might if I dont :blip:

[buellbabe]

yep, well that'd be me then... unless i can stay inside the dble yellows, then I will definately pass. Otherwise I wait, there is a reason for them being there (maybe not always appropriate nor apparent for a bike rider, but we do have to cater for the lowest common denominator on the roads eh?)...and it aint gonna kill me to wait, it might if I dont :blip:
You WHAT?? So theres a stretch of road where you can pass safely and yr seriously telling me you WON'T just becos theres some namby-pamby dbl yelo's???

[buellbabe]

Just to clarify... I'm not stoopid! Obviously I am talking about a situation where you can clearly see the road ahead... sometimes there will be dbl yelo's merely cos the road is narrow which may be an issue for cars but is no problem for a bike... As Spman said, most road rules are geared towards cars with absolutely no thought given to the difference tween car and motorbike...

[Rashika]

You WHAT?? So theres a stretch of road where you can pass safely and yr seriously telling me you WON'T just becos theres some namby-pamby dbl yelo's???
yep :rolleyes:
But dont know of many round here (even the hilltop road does not have many) so it doesn't happen often... fk lot of em around Queenstown tho... oh yeah kinda a lot of tourists round there too, they seem to like the wrong side of the road for some reason as well?

Seriously tho, dble yelos mean something, usually to do with lack of visibility... and unless you know the road really well (which is something else entirely!), I've had enough scares to warrent staying inside them, be it in the car or bike.

[buellbabe]

Yeah hearing ya mate... you can ride behind me OK? ;-)

[Rashika]

Yeah hearing ya mate... you can ride behind me OK? ;-)
HA! You think I would be able to keep up with ya anyway?? :laugh:

[buellbabe]

Hey you know me chick, I will adjust my speed for whoever I am riding with... Going fast isn't the be-all-and-end-all!:2thumbsup

[scumdog]

Just look at the Autobahn if you want proof. Speed is very safe in the right conditions.

Yep, get NZ up to Germanys population and we too could have autobahns.

Or drop it down to the Northern Territorys level of people per hectare and we could do without speed limits.:niceone:

[Lou Girardin]

I was really tempted to pass a truck on double yellows out of Tauranga. There was plenty of clear road, no reason not to do it. Except that if a cop comes around the corner you're toast. 40 or 50 demerits, and a fine. And there's no way I'd consider running with a pillion on.

[scumdog]

I was really tempted to pass a truck on double yellows out of Tauranga. There was plenty of clear road, no reason not to do it. Except that if a cop comes around the corner you're toast. 40 or 50 demerits, and a fine. And there's no way I'd consider running with a pillion on.

Good.

But if you had not had a pillion you would have - and maybe put somebody elses pillion at risk??????????:pinch:

[miSTa]

Yes indeed, yellow lines are there for a reason - I can wait few the few seconds it takes to get passed them.

[Rashika]

Yes indeed, yellow lines are there for a reason - I can wait few the few seconds it takes to get passed them.
hmmmm.... tucking that wee bit of info away for the future :whistle:

[nadroj]

When there are double yellow lines there is no centreline (a white line as described in the roadcode) so how can you cross a non existant line? (pt)

[scumdog]

When there are double yellow lines there is no centreline (a white line as described in the roadcode) so how can you cross a non existant line? (pt)

Well duh! It's the BLACK line between the two yellow ones dopey!!:laugh: :killingme

[miSTa]

hmmmm.... tucking that wee bit of info away for the future :whistle:

What's to keep? I know you - you're just trying to get your post count up so you can become a whore (994 posts at time of writing) :lol: Well I'm sorry it's going to work.

[Ixion]

Yes indeed, yellow lines are there for a reason - I can wait few the few seconds it takes to get passed them.

Hurumph. Not on SH2 they're not. Unless the reason was to let some plonker get off on his monthly power trip.

[Rashika]

What's to keep? I know you - you're just trying to get your post count up so you can become a whore (994 posts at time of writing) :lol: Well I'm sorry it's going to work.
SHIT!! I hadn't even noticed....HONEST I REALLY HADN'T
Amazing how time flies eh?

[miSTa]

SHIT!!

:laugh: :laugh: Great expession - of course you hadn't noticed :no:

[Lou Girardin]

Yes indeed, yellow lines are there for a reason - I can wait few the few seconds it takes to get passed them.

Try riding from Tauranga to just before Katikati. Quite a few seconds, hundreds in fact.

[mstriumph]

Agree ---- speed isn't the danger
........ drivers who aren't alert, drivers who don't ride to the road, weather & traffic conditions - those are the danger;
drivers who overestimate either their own capacity or that of their vehicle - those are the danger .....

and 'the powers that be' .:tugger: whose over-restrictive legislation and idiotic road layouts treat road users like morons and inhibit the freeflow of traffic - those are the danger.


Here in west aus they have a sign they are fond of putting up on stretches of new road ...........
the sign says "NO WHITE LINES - DO NOT OVERTAKE UNLESS IT IS SAFE TO DO SO"

i have to overcome the urge to break into a quick chorus of 'alice's restaraunt every time i see that notice :drinknsin