first bike - big problems

[wendy]

Hi

I got my first bike a Honda VTZ250 1987 (second hand) last week but only got my learner licence today, I went to ride it but it wouldnt start.

i'm an aussie (hope you dont mind me posting here, you can tell me to piss off if you want) i got my bike from Sumoto in Melbourne - anyone else had dealings with them? they advertised it as 2005 complianced with a 6 month warranty.

when they gave it to me the engine and stuff had been sprayed black but when you take the covers off you can see its really corroded underneath and they didn’t change the spark plugs – they told me they would pretty much rip out the insides and replace everything they said they where putting in about $2000 worth of new stuff with the compliancing, I thought that sounded pretty good.

I couldn’t actually see the bike before I bought it, it was imported from japan then complianced here. Big bloody mistake. :slap:

They specifically told me to always turn the fuel off when im not using it. Which now sound like they knew something was wrong.

I know pretty much nothing about mechanics and the guys at the company knew that, I’m afraid they ripped me off cause I’m only an 18 year old girl who knows nothing about bikes. Does that happen much? My friend (an experienced male rider) bought a bike years ago from them and said it was perfect and great when he got his, no hassles at all.

here are the problems and i was wondering if anyone could suggest anything or help me figure out what to do. My dad and friend helped me with this list.

- at first it kept stalling, but its now running well.
- The engine is spitting oil onto the back tyre
- Theres rust on the front forks – been told it can ruin the seals and make it leak

I didn’t use it for 3 days before today and this is what happened when I tried to start it (the fuel thing was defiantly off and had been since last using it)

- the engine wouldn’t turn over – charged the battery incase, still doesn’t work.
- Fuel is coming from the muffler/exhaust pipe joint – and the fuel was off when this happened.
- fuel coming out of front cylinder exhaust port and exhaust pipe junction
- wont push start – back wheel locks up (doesn’t have a kick start)
- starter motor solenoid clicks but doesn’t turn over
- float valve not working?
- Fuel thing not locking?

I think im going to take it back to them and try and get them to fix it.

they stuffed me around with the cheque and other stuff too. jerks. :angry2:

any advice is welcome, thanks for listening

*****************
27th
Thanks for your advise and support, im glad to have the backing

- the hydrolock thing sounds right
- im getting the fuel tap and float checked by a mechanic
- im going to take it back, if they dont fix it then i will ask for the money back

thanks, wish me luck

*****************
28th
my friend is a licenced roadworthy tester and has seemed to scared them a bit (i hope) he said something about their licence could be taken away and he said they will fix the bike for no charge but after reading the article in the link about candys experience im a bit worried what they will do.

at the moment its at the local honda dealer and getting thoroughly checked out and its getting a service so i will have a proper list of things to give to sumoto

*****************************
3rd
got my bike back from the local honda dealer he gave it a service and checked it over then had a big ride on it and it seems fine now, it doesnt appear to be spitting oil anymore and its not losing all its fuel

he had to pull off the carburetor and pull it apart and clean all the junk from in there and there was also a huge build up of junk everywhere to do with the tank. otherwise there isnt anything unroadworthy about it.

ive got him to call sumoto and tell them what was wrong and stuff.

next problem - INSURANCE
ive called a few places who insure motorcycles but im either to inexperianced or they dont know my bike model (cause its a grey import) so they wont accept it.

waiting for a call from another mob, otherwise i'll have to use an insurance broker.

[Ixion]

Oh dear. Firstly, welcome, and sorry the circumstances are not more auspicious.

I fear the signs may not be good.

The oil on the rear tyre thing would be a worry (if you are sure it is not coming off the chain) . Blowing oil would indicate possible serious engine problems.

More worrying however is the latest development. There is a reason that they told you to turn the tap off. This model of bike (if memory serves me true) has a bad habit. If the tap is left on (or leaks) fuel will often run down , past the floats (which should stop it, but often don't) and into the cylinder. Then it leaks into the crankcases. If the cylinder has filled up with petrol, this can cause a thing called hydrolock.

Basically, normally when you turn the engine over, the piston will compress air mixture in the cylinder. But the cylinder is now full of petrol, and liquid cannot be compressed. So the engine will not turn over . Moreover attempts to make it turn can easy bend and damage parts of the engine (such as the conrods). Longer term, the petrol leaking into the crankcases and diluting the oil can cause the big end bearing to fail, and the motor may blow up.

Even if the tap is turned off, they sometimes leak.

The rust on the forks is not such a biggy, it can damage the fork seals, but it can easily be moved with fine sand paper and the pitting filled with epoxy.

I think your suggestion of going back to the shop is definately the best one. Since the argument may turn on whether the tap was in fact off or not (if it was , it must be defective and leaking internally), you might want to get an independant shop to check this (does the tap work properly ?) before taking it back.

I am sorry to be the bearer of such (possibly) bad tidings. However on a more hopeful note, I have known cases where this has happened, and after draining out the leaked petrol , all has been well. So there is still hope.

And there is the warranty, which gives you some ammunition, too. They may try to evade thye claim though by saying that you left the fuel tap on, hence the suggetsion of getting an independant check that it is working properly - or not. If it is leaking internally, turning it off will not be effective, and you could not know that.

[FROSTY]

sounds like a typical vtr fuel tap--not working.I think its hydraulic locked with all the gas thats in the engine.
I wont give a big speech--just dont ride it and get the bike shop to sort it out.

[Wasp]

hey hey another VTZ, im glad to say that mines working great!

ive had mine not turn over sometimes (usually after rain but not always), put the choke on ya left on full slip it into neautral turn the lights off.

next twist the throttle fully open twice, now hold the starter for about 2-3 seconds and "blip" the throttle. i find this starts mine most times.

sounds sort of like the engine is stuffed though, i read somewhere the fuel tap should be turned off when the bikes not in use other wise it somehow stuffs the engine so i turn mine off unless i forget..

p.s. incase your wondering the vtz is my first bike too, i had some problems with it at first, higher octane fuels are allright at higher rpm due to higher compression, i also have a couple of rust spots on the forks but they are up high(ish) so the seal barely ever goes over it.

cheers, Doug (17 yo male)

[mstriumph]

welcome to kb Wendy

you'll find plenty of support and useful information on here ---- they are a good bunch even when they are playing up :yes:

tell us how you get on when you take it back ...

chin up!! you may not know anything about mechanics but really you don't need to if you think about it - except for explaining what is wrong [and you seem to have that covered in your list?].... its the same as taking anything back that you've just bought that isn't working like it should

... go get 'em Girl!! good luck with it!

[sugilite]

What Ixon said, now thats what I call quality information!

you really do need to find out where that oil is coming from, if it is coming from a tube connected to your airbox, your crankcases could be pressurizing. (they often vent to the airbox)
Definitely take it back to the shop you got it from.
Take your knowlegible friend with you me thinks....

[sugilite]

Oh yeah, welcome to the site lol
It does not matter where you are from, you ride a bike, your one of us!

[2much]

Welcome to KB Wendy.

Would have to agree with everything Ixion said (clever old fella innit he!)

Pull the sparkplugs out and then try to turn it over, if it is hydrolocked then this will cause the engine to pump the excess fuel out of the sparkplug holes. Wind it over (hopefully it's turning over now) for a bit (5-10 secs should do), then replace the plugs and with any luck it should start

[Wasp]

i find that my vtz runs at idle speeds with the throttle fully open when flooded(just be ready to let go when it un floods and revs up)

let me know how you get on, if you want any general specific advice on the vtz i'd be more than happy to help.

[iwilde]

If I were you I'd try and get my money back as they are ripping you off and taking advantage that you're a female. If that was brought over here the dealer has a resonable amout of time to correct the problems or he has to refund your money in full. But as they spray over rust I doubt they will fix anything correctly. See a laywer if they won't come to the party.

BTW, welcome

[Colapop]

I agree entirely with what Iwilde says. I'd take it back tell them I wanted a cash refund (they can't cancel cash but they can a cheque). I assume that in Oz you have a Citizens Advice Bureau or some community help association? Usually these outfits have some free legal advice.

First and foremost contact the shop and inform them of the situation. If they are willing to sort all the issues out for then great. If not then go the complete refund route. If you are not happy with these guys do not accept a different bike in return for yours.

[DemonWolf]

Welcome to KB... hope you get this sorted out. Let us know how you get on.

[Lazy7]

I’m only an 18 year old girl.

The number of times i get fooled by that line in online chats! :devil2:

hehe. - sorry to hear your having troubles. go take it back to them :Oi: , put your hands on your hips, flick your hair and demand your money back! :niceone:

[Lou Girardin]

I don't know how your consumer protection laws work, but that bike is clearly not fit for it's intended purpose.

[yungatart]

Welcome to the madhouse, and good luck with getting a fair go on your bike.

[marty]

google:

http://www.consumer.gov.au/html/faqs.htm#consumers

[Sutage]

there is a lack of 18 year old girls who ride motorbikes !
dont rip them off when they buy a bike !

[John Banks]

From the sounds of it they've sold you a dangerous machine. Why don't laws call for a full refund and a square kick in the bollocks for the dealer? However it transpired, it doesn't matter - they pretty much screwed you. See if you can't screw back.

Oh, and welcome! :Oi: :Oi: :Oi: :hug:

[zadok]

A big welcome Wendy. Sorry to hear about your problem. Does Victoria have cooling off periods for these purchases? What sort of warranty did they give you?
You could try a couple of areas to se where you stand:

http://www.complaintline.com.au/consumeraffairs.html
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/287271/fromItemId/325459

[SDU]

Welcome to the site Wendy- It's good to get more gals on site. As for being an Aussie, I'm sure we can handle it- there are already a few around plus some expats living on your side off the ditch.
Good luck with getting your money back or your bike repaired to what you expected it to be on sale. Arm yourself with all the legalities and take some witnesses with you to the dealer. Go :kick: gal.

Good to see you are not letting one asshole put you off getting out there.
Cheers
SDU

[FlyingDutchMan]

My advice is to take the bike back & get a full cash refund ASAP - don't settle on any other outcome AT ALL. Then go elsewhere buy another learner legal bike for 1/2 the cash. Sumoto has a REALLY REALLY bad rep - and for good reason. They're a curse on the world of aussie motorcycling. Get your cash back and avoid them like the plague. I suggest you have a look here http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31117 and here http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10375

Words cannot describe how bad they are...

[notme]

My advice is to take the bike back & get a full cash refund ASAP - don't settle on any other outcome AT ALL. Then go elsewhere buy another learner legal bike for 1/2 the cash. Sumoto has a REALLY REALLY bad rep - and for good reason. They're a curse on the world of aussie motorcycling. Get your cash back and avoid them like the plague. I suggest you have a look here http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31117 and here http://www.cr-x.org/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10375

Words cannot describe how bad they are...

The Red Baron of Aussie? Hang on - RB is in Aussie too aren't they?

Wendy, PLEASE don't ride the thing, some of those issues sound dangerous to your continued enjoyment of life on this planet. Others have offered great advice so I won't stick my $0.02 in.... Hope you get it sorted mate :banana:

[hunt]

hi wendy, if it was me i'd try and return the bike for a refund, but if they wont do that i wouldnt leave the bike with them to fix unless it was absolutely clear they will carry out repairs at no cost to you, because if they are dodgy i'm sure they'd try to extract more cash from ya,

you could try removing a sparkplug and with the bike in gear and rear wheel off the ground spin the wheel slowly around and if there is a fuel hydraulic lock as mentioned in other posts you will see fuel come out the sparkplug hole( I dont know if your bike 2 or 4 stroke ) also a simple test for fuel taps is to remove fuel line from carb but still attached to fuel tap, with the tap off there should be no fuel leakage(have a rag or 2 handy for fuel spills)
I dont know alot about jap bikes bit this info should apply to yours

[HenryDorsetCase]

It does sound like you have been screwed over. I would try and get my money back if I was you. there must be consumer protection legislation that helps you out (Ours is called the Consumer Guarantees Act). you should be able to access free legal advice thru a consumers advice bureau or similar.

If you can get lawyered up that might help. the problem is of course chucking good money after bad.

oh, and welcome.

[HenryDorsetCase]

last time I was in Melbourne I wandered into a HUGE motorbike shop on Elizabeth St. Sold vespas and Triumphs and H-D and such. they seemed very friendly and nice.

FWIW.

more I think about it, the more I would be rejecting the goods and demanding a refund. Also if there is a hydraulic lock, possibly/probably your crankcases are full of petrol as well. not the good look.

[Sparky Bills]

Just take it back and speak to the salesperson who sold it to you. Let them know your troubles, and come to an arrangment to get it sorted.
I dont think you should have to pay a cent personally.
See if you can get a loan bie from them too, as your gonna be without transport.

Dont get angry infront of them, that wont help you at all.

[Sparky Bills]

OH! And Welcome to the site.


Good luck.

[FlyingDutchMan]

Just take it back and speak to the salesperson who sold it to you. Let them know your troubles, and come to an arrangment to get it sorted.
I dont think you should have to pay a cent personally.
See if you can get a loan bie from them too, as your gonna be without transport.

Dont get angry infront of them, that wont help you at all.

Did you read those links I put up? They'll keep your bike for a few weeks, wash it and return it otherwise untouched. Getting the money back is the only wise recourse here at all.

[Insanity_rules]

How have ya gotten on? have they done anything for you yet? Wishin ya luck!