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Motoracer
7th April 2004, 12:21
Hi guys, I was just wondering if any of yous had a good trick to take off a chain with a non detachable link from my bike.

White trash
7th April 2004, 12:24
Hi guys, I was just wondering if any of yous had a good trick to take off a chain with a non detachable link from my bike.

Find the rivet link, grab an angle grinder and grind off the end of the pins flush with the side plates. Then punch the pins out.

Go and get another rivet link joining link to replace it when reinstalling the chain.

Whats wrong with it anyway?

merv
7th April 2004, 12:47
If you haven't got a chain breaking and rivetting tool you may as well take it into a shop because as WT has said above you have to basically wreck the rivetted link to take the chain off and without the right tools you aren't going to put a new one together.

Motoracer
7th April 2004, 12:48
Kewl thanx, the chain's fucket! the wheel is set all the way back on the swing arm and still the chain is loose as.

hey, I was going to PM you about the chain size. Do you know what size I am suppose to use? I know how many links but whats the other measurement of it.

White trash
7th April 2004, 13:10
That has a 520 conversion on it.

Bear in mind to leave enough room for larger sprockets, Johann sold it with Pukekohe gearing so it's as small a rear sprocket as you'll ever use.

You should also run the chain a little looser than you would a normal road bike and lubricate it with a DRY lube after every race.

pete376403
7th April 2004, 13:12
Depending on the frame layout you can sometimes get the chain off unbroken by removing the swingarm. It would be a major to do it this way, you'd have to have a really good reason.

Angry Puppy
7th April 2004, 14:26
I used a Dremel-style hobby hand drill with a grinding bit to grind off the side of the pin, but at the end of the day, as they guys above have said, you may as well invest in a decent breaker and riveter. Use it a few time and it will have paid for itself.

Fazer Bloke

Motoracer
7th April 2004, 14:42
Thanx guys, I'll work out something from all of your great advises. The chain has WAY too much sideways bend in it for reuse so its prolly time to depart with it.

Just 1 more Q, why would I want to use a non-detachable link type anyway? It just seems like a pain in the arse! From memory, other racers like Dave and ho-hoon had the detachable types on their race bikes. Apart from the safety issue of the clip comming off, there are no other reasons right?

P.S. I looked at the work involved in getting it out without taking the link off and lets just say that I am not even going go there.

Big Dog
7th April 2004, 15:16
Just 1 more Q, why would I want to use a non-detachable link type anyway? It just seems like a pain in the arse! From memory, other racers like Dave and ho-hoon had the detachable types on their race bikes. Apart from the safety issue of the clip comming off, there are no other reasons right?
Because under heavy acceleration they can snap or deform..... not an issue under 70hp or in road applications...... but they do have a shorter life span.

I saw breaker kits starting at $70 odd in a motomail mailer... so they should be cheaper elsewhere. From memory they also had sets with the joiner tools for as well $150. Try www.Motomail.co.nz search criteria breaker for the latest prices.

k14
7th April 2004, 15:25
Can't you just remove a link and then it will be alright??

svs
7th April 2004, 15:37
Can't you just remove a link and then it will be alright??

Nah. If the chains buggered, then its buggered and needs replacing. Good way to tell if the chain is stretched is to try and lift it where it goes round the rear sprocket. If you can lift it far enough to see a reasonable amount of tooth then chain is stretched. A new chain should sit fairly tight round the sprocket. just my 2 cents.

merv
7th April 2004, 19:24
Just 1 more Q, why would I want to use a non-detachable link type anyway? It just seems like a pain in the arse! From memory, other racers like Dave and ho-hoon had the detachable types on their race bikes. Apart from the safety issue of the clip comming off, there are no other reasons right?

Its a strength issue as Big Dog says. No bike manufacturer would recommend a clip type joining link on a bike with any power to speak of. Even my 250 dirt bikes have rivetted chain links.

Big Dog
7th April 2004, 19:34
Nah. If the chains buggered, then its buggered and needs replacing. Good way to tell if the chain is stretched is to try and lift it where it goes round the rear sprocket. If you can lift it far enough to see a reasonable amount of tooth then chain is stretched. A new chain should sit fairly tight round the sprocket. just my 2 cents.
As I understand it that just means it needs adjusting.

To test wether it needs replacing adjust it then grab the bottom run of chain and see how much it will rotate. A new chain won't. as the bushes get more worn it rotates further. Basically if you can rotate it more than a few degrees it's knackered.

Big Dog
7th April 2004, 19:38
Also as I understand it if you angle grind it off it will burn the bushes. I was told this was only a real option where you were going to change it or where a pin is warped and you plan to take another link out with a link breaker.

merv
7th April 2004, 19:52
SVS is right, if you pull the chain at the middle of its run around the rear sprocket and it comes out to about the height of the teeth its kaput. No use adjusting it, that will only pull it tight on the first teeth top and bottom.

As for burning bushes and stuff, by the time you need to remove a rivetted link its time to throw the whole chain in your wheeliebin and fit a new one, or as I said above if you don't have the tools get the bike to a shop (before you've removed the joining link and find you can't fit a new one yourself).

However if the bike has a small back sprocket can you get away with a chain two links shorter or do you need to go back to stock gearing?

WT you said the bike had a 520 conversion - what is it normally - 530?

If so Motoracer what use are you putting the bike to are you racing it? If not maybe consider going back to stock which I'm guessing is a stronger 530 chain with wider sprocket teeth - more friction I guess but should last longer. Many shops can sell you chain and sprocket kits for not much more than the price of a chain so no need to worry about the cost of sprockets if you are buying a chain anyway.

Big Dog
7th April 2004, 19:59
Many shops can sell you chain and sprocket kits for not much more than the price of a chain so no need to worry about the cost of sprockets if you are buying a chain anyway.
You should replace your sprockets with you chain anyway to avoid unneccessary wear.

Big Dog
7th April 2004, 20:05
I have had 30,000 out of a link chain before but had to adjust it weekly. I had my current rivet link for over a year before I had to adjust it.

Your chain is only as strong as its weakest link, imagine using a substandard link!

Posh Tourer :P
7th April 2004, 20:48
As I understand it that just means it needs adjusting.

To test wether it needs replacing adjust it then grab the bottom run of chain and see how much it will rotate. A new chain won't. as the bushes get more worn it rotates further. Basically if you can rotate it more than a few degrees it's knackered.

Wrong BigDog, what SVS (? - I think) is saying is that when you have the chain on the sprocket, and you try and pull it out from the middle of the "attached to sprocket" area, it shouldnt come off much. If it is able to pull away from the sprocket, you have a worn chain, as it will be all loose and able to stretch out a bit.

Motoracer
7th April 2004, 20:51
However if the bike has a small back sprocket can you get away with a chain two links shorter or do you need to go back to stock gearing?

WT you said the bike had a 520 conversion - what is it normally - 530?

If so Motoracer what use are you putting the bike to are you racing it? If not maybe consider going back to stock which I'm guessing is a stronger 530 chain with wider sprocket teeth - more friction I guess but should last longer. Many shops can sell you chain and sprocket kits for not much more than the price of a chain so no need to worry about the cost of sprockets if you are buying a chain anyway.

Ok, luckily from my spares box for the ZXR, I found out that I had bought a brand new 520 - 108 link chain and never used it. Its quite a lot shorter than 112 but with a bit of luck, it just might do the trick.

The bike is mainly for the road, some track day use and a few club races if I am lucky, so 530 wouldn't be a bad call for the long run. For now thoe, I just hope the ZXR chain fits the GSXR. But if it doesn't work or ones I am done with this chain, I'll look into a 530 with a bigger back sprocket. thanx again!

MR

Big Dog
8th April 2004, 15:54
Wrong BigDog, what SVS (? - I think) is saying is that when you have the chain on the sprocket, and you try and pull it out from the middle of the "attached to sprocket" area, it shouldnt come off much. If it is able to pull away from the sprocket, you have a worn chain, as it will be all loose and able to stretch out a bit.
Never let it be said that I am never wrong. Cheers for that.

merv
8th April 2004, 16:12
Ok, luckily from my spares box for the ZXR, I found out that I had bought a brand new 520 - 108 link chain and never used it. Its quite a lot shorter than 112 but with a bit of luck, it just might do the trick.

The bike is mainly for the road, some track day use and a few club races if I am lucky, so 530 wouldn't be a bad call for the long run. For now thoe, I just hope the ZXR chain fits the GSXR. But if it doesn't work or ones I am done with this chain, I'll look into a 530 with a bigger back sprocket. thanx again!

MR

WT never answered but would it be a 530 chain stock?

As for 4 links less I suspect that will be too short because that is a big difference but no harm checking if it is OK. Depends on how many teeth smaller that back sprocket is and how much adjustment you have.

merv
8th April 2004, 16:13
... and have you got the tools to do the joining link?

Motoracer
8th April 2004, 16:19
... and have you got the tools to do the joining link?

I am planing to drill out the pins. My new chain has the detachable link with a clip.

White trash
8th April 2004, 16:28
WT never answered but would it be a 530 chain stock?

As for 4 links less I suspect that will be too short because that is a big difference but no harm checking if it is OK. Depends on how many teeth smaller that back sprocket is and how much adjustment you have.

Sorry Merv.

Busy having a heated discussion elsewhere, not paying attention :whistle:

yeah you're right. 530 is stock. 520 for less resistance (especially when the riders over 100kg. Sorry Yo-show!)

merv
8th April 2004, 16:34
I am planing to drill out the pins. My new chain has the detachable link with a clip.


OK now don't be silly, no-one would recommend a detachable link with clip on a 100hp+ bike. That's what we've been talking about for the last few days. Best you get down to the shop and buy a rivet type link if you can fit one to that chain or buy a new chain. Your life is not worth the risk of a link that could fail.

See Big Dog's comment about weakest link.

When a chain lets go you can have a locked wheel and go splat - not a pretty thought eh!

Motoracer
8th April 2004, 16:34
especially when the riders over 100kg. Sorry Yo-show!

No wonder the suspention set up is all wrong for me! It'll be great to ask you guys on the 23rd and set it up there and then properly.

Motoracer
8th April 2004, 16:38
Oh ok, now I get ya properly Merv and Big D, I'll get it done properly by the shop then. Can't really afford to buy the tools right now.

I've never owned anything bigger than a 4 hundy untill now so I never knew this rule about chains. Thanx a mill again!

White trash
8th April 2004, 16:44
Hey Sudeep! Ask Yo what happens when a chain comes off a race bike.

The only REAL big crash he had was at Taupo coming onto the front straight when a chain from the bike in front came off (split link strikes again!) and went straight under his front wheel.

Posh Tourer :P
8th April 2004, 21:48
Never let it be said that I am never wrong. Cheers for that.

That was a bit blunt wasnt it... sorry :cool:

merv
9th April 2004, 08:37
Hey Sudeep! Ask Yo what happens when a chain comes off a race bike.

The only REAL big crash he had was at Taupo coming onto the front straight when a chain from the bike in front came off (split link strikes again!) and went straight under his front wheel.

That's another whole element to this story when I was just thinking of the small chance of it wrapping round the back sprocket and locking the wheel as opposed to just falling on the ground which it will probably do most of the time if its not wrapped around your gearbox sprocket maybe cracking the engine case in the process.

Anyway glad Motoracer gets the picture and he will get the chain replaced properly.

moko
9th April 2004, 09:51
Dont bother taking links out of a knackered chain,if it breaks it can cause you/your bike/both serious damage,just not worth the risk.

pete376403
9th April 2004, 17:52
I am planing to drill out the pins. My new chain has the detachable link with a clip.
Don't think you'll ever drill out chain pins- they are hardened. Grind off the ends then punch the pins through.