Who's in the right...accident question.

[Motu]

I'd like some input on an prang I saw on friday,I'm going to have to write a little essay....

The intersection at Carr Rd outside my work is busy all day,cars well banked up several times a day...the right lane straight ahead,or turn right around the round about,left lane left turn only.The right hand lane banks right up to Dominion Rd in peak hours,and at least 100mtrs all day...so cutting across from the other side relies on courtesy,not as rare as you all seem to think.I do it several times a day..stop and indicate,usualy the car in front doesn't move as the line moves,and you cautiously move across and check the inside lane - prangs are numerous...at least once a week.

So I friday I watch as one of my elderly woman customers tries to come across the road,a couple of Pacific Islanders in a small truck stop and let her across,she slowly edges her way in to the inside lane,is halfway across when a young Chinese guy (oops,sorry) comes flying down the inside lane and slams into her.The usual modern Whatamacallit with spoilers colapases completly,the old 1990 Corona has not only the left front wheel folded over,but the right hand strut is bent too.Amid the carnage of my forecourt being ripped apart by diggers the wrecks are taken away.

That evening the young Chinese boy and a couple of his friends turn up and ask me if I saw the accident,and want me to put it in writing,as they believe the woman is in the wrong,turning across oncoming traffic - I say no,I think he was in the wrong....obviously going too fast for the conditions (very close to the intersection) ,he didn't notice the truck stopped to allow a car across,and he hit the car when it was more than halfway across the lane - he just wasn't taking due care and notice of his surroundings,he caused an accident he of could easily avoided.The woman he hit rang me today and asked if I would write in support of her claim....I said I would.

So...what's your take on the situation??

[kro]

I'm trying to picture where you are, If there are two lanes, the chinese guy might be right, depending on whether he was hoofing it at inappropriate speeds etc etc (what you said).

Which roundabout is it?, the Tony Martins Gym end, or down the other end?

[Shadows]

If I've got the picture right, that the lady was cutting across two lanes from the opposite side of the road to enter your premises, I'd say that she has pulled out in front of an oncoming car and is in the wrong. She should not have entered the other lane without making sure that it was safe to do so. Being in front of a truck wouldn't have helped visibility, sounds like she may as well have pulled into the lane with her eyes closed.

[crashe]

Was she crossing two lanes to get to the other side of the road????

The truck in the first lane and the lad speeding up in the other lane?
She got past the truck and going into the second lane to get to the other side of the road to continue on her way when she got hit by the lad?

If she was, then she didnt have full view to see that the way was clear for her to cross. She shouldnt rely on others to let her know.


Yep, He was travelling to fast for the conditions...


So It could go either way but more in his favour... except he was speeding over the speed limit.



We have this happening outside Foodtown at Te Atatu South with people trying to get back onto Te Atatu Road heading towards Glendene all the time.

Let the cops sort it out for them or their insurance companies..

[Skyryder]

I'm not familier with the road layout but the lady does have the right to change lanes. I hope she indicated. This would be of help. Even if she did not and the asian rear ended her either on the rear or to the side rear of her vehicle the asian would be in the wrong. You simply can not drive into other vehicles from a rear position.

Skyryder

[sAsLEX]

Just put what you have put above, an honest and fair assesment, she cant ask for more

[Mr Skid]

Bugger this honest shite, who's paying your bills?

[justsomeguy]

Which roundabout is it?, the Tony Martins Gym end, or down the other end?

Yup - the one between Tony's and the BP.

[Motu]

the asian rear ended her
Skyryder

Where did you see rear ended?

Yes,he has the Law as far as intersection rules on his side....but undue care and attention against him.She was well across before he hit her,they ended up with both wheels in the gutter...if you saw the nose of a car pointing through the other cars you'd be aware of something going on - to hit her at a reasonable speed just behind the front wheel I'd say she made a claim on coming across.He didn't even brake...I heard no wheels lock up,there are no skid marks.

Also at the moment,and on friday - my forecourt on the Carr Rd frontage is being ripped up and a 50,000litre tank put in.That afternoon trucks were taking fill away,and bringing more in.(what stupid safety rules say they can't leave an open hole overnight...so they dig a huge hole,and fill it in again) So the whole intersection is in disaray. This guy saw nothing...did nothing - does this put him in the right?

[Ixion]

Hm. tricky, very tricky this one. Neither the road code nor the legislation help much.

If I understand correctly, two lanes outside your driveway, outer lane had truck who allowed her in. She was turning from far side of road into your driveway, right?

And in law your driveway classes as a road with the same priority as the "real" road (catches learners that one does). So this is in fact an intersection.

Now if the road was a single lane and she turned right from the far side of the road , she would clearly be in the wrong. She is turning traffic, and he is straight through. Turning always gives way to straight through at an uncontrolled intersection. But it's not one lane. And one *could* argue that once she had turned into the outer lane (courtesy of the truck) she was no longer turning traffic, she was now straight through traffic (as if she had come out of another raod directly opposite your driveway)

And if she was straight through traffic, she had the right of way , by the right hand rule. If she HAD come out of a driveway , or road, opposite your driveway she would certainly have right of way. (Told you it catches learners)

So, if I have turned into a lane, straightened up and am now driving striaght ahead across another lane, am I still turning. Even though my wheels are straight ahead ?

Very tricky. But there is also an obligation to slow down on the approach to an intersection. But the chinese gentleman will no doubt say he HAD slowed down .

I'd say both are equally in the wrong. But, a very difficult situation.

[Motu]

I am right on the intersection,we are a corner site,not 50 metres up the road,so she was turning where cars were stopped.I see this everyday - some people just turn across onto the inside lane without looking...they are obviously in the wrong,undue care and attention.This is the opposite - she was turning with due care and attention,he entering an intersection without due care and attention.It's tricky,and I'm troubled...but I'll call it as I saw it - but keep your views coming....

[SPman]

Call it as you saw it - thats all you can honestly do.
Some of the twats around there drive with an arrogance that is sickening.
Tunnel vision and no consideration for any other drivers - if, indeed they actually see any other drivers!

[Hoon]

I reckon the lady was at fault for changing lanes without ensuring it was safe to do so. In situations like this its always dangerous threading through stationary cars onto a busy lane, all you can do is nudge forward slowly giving ample time for oncoming traffic to see you entering their lane. The problem is people just thrust their nose out into the lane up to the drivers door until they can see if there are any cars coming instead of proceeding slowly.

Sure the asian is partly at fault for not slowing down for the conditions but this isn't a crime - more of a proactive measure to reduce/avoid potential accident making situations that we all learn from experience. Yes he could have prevented the accident with better threat assessment but the lady still created the situation in the first place. The worse he could be done for is "driving at a speed as to be unable to stop within the length of lane visible" but when someone enters that lane illegally then I don't think it applies.

I'd like nothing more than to see some boy racer pinged instead of a nice lady customer but in my unprejudiced impartial opinion, the lady is to blame.

[DemonWolf]

Its a tough one alright.. let us know if anything else develops from this.

Just call it as your saw it. Being careful not to be bias, stating the facts. A court will more than likely decide whom was 'right'

[Lou Girardin]

She failed to give way when turning right.
The other drivers speed may be a mitigating factor, but how can you prove it?

[Pixie]

so they dig a huge hole,and fill it in again) So the whole intersection is in disaray. This guy saw nothing...did nothing - does this put him in the right?
The whole place is a shit hole at the moment.I've had to try to get out of Para Rubber's car park on several occasions while trying to see through a line of SUV's parked on the road.
But the young fella was being a fuckwit for not taking into account the conditions and driving carefully

[Oscar]

Is the inside lane (the one the Chinese guy was in) marked?

[Motu]

I think because he hit her dead on with her front wheel,she was moving slowly,as elderly woman are want to,she was well into the lane and he hit her at speed without even slowing down...he just wasn't looking.This is a situation where techncaly she was in the wrong...but he caused the accident by going too fast for the situation and not being aware of the situation.Kinda the reverse of all these old dudders who've never had an accident in their life....but caused hundreds by their inattention...

[MSTRS]

She failed to give way when turning right.
The other drivers speed may be a mitigating factor, but how can you prove it?
Ixion might have it.....she gave way, but the truck driver graciously allowed her thru. Having reached the second lane, she would be at rightangles to the road, meaning the Asian was on her left.
One for the insurance ombudsman and the lawyers??

[Ixion]

Morally, I'd blame him. Because there was very little if anything that the woman could do to have prevented the smash (other than not coming to visit you at all). Whereas *he* could easily have prevented it, simply by driving carefully.

Legally, is tricky. A case where the careful driver is legally in the wrong, and the careless speedster who actually caused the accident is in the right. The law's an ass. (NO Mr Hitcher - NOT an arse, call off you BOTTYNZ hit squad, - this one really is the donkey)

[DevoDave]

Looks as though this is a problem for the insurers to work out, if they are insured. It appears to be a knock for knock claim with both parties being in the wrong. Insureres will appropriate blame on a percentage basis. The lady was wrong by undertaking her turning manouver the guy was wrong for not driving in a manner appropriate to the conditions.

it's a bugger but a salutary lesson for us all.

[Mental Trousers]

Unfortunately it looks like the old lady is at fault for accident. However, the young guy will probably get slapped with dangerous driving or something. Farked if I know who the insurance will pay out to.

[thealmightytaco]

I'm thinkin' our asian friend will have the book on his side, there isn't exactly a give way for him there, but Grandma Round-Eye totally has moral victory here.

You should be lookin' for people pokin' their noses out through blocked lanes of traffic and looking to either swing out and around them at least, or preferably be a good bassa and let them come through. I mean if a kid runs out you don't exactly just pile into them and moan at the parents do ya. These are the trials and obstacles about in modern day traffic.

Whether a judge will have the common sense to go with that or want to cut it clean through the words of the relevant good book... who knows. But I say go with your gut Motu.

Fo tru.

[HDTboy]

The way I see it, She's legally in the wrong. But He's morally in the wrong according to common sense (which has nothing to do with road law)

[Marmoot]

She failed to give way when turning right.
The other drivers speed may be a mitigating factor, but how can you prove it?

Strictly speaking on legal point of view, I agree with Lou. The caucassian lady is at fault.
You must not cut across an oncoming lane unless you can see it is clear or there is a car stopped to give way in that lane.



But, from personal point of view, the truck driver is partially at blame for giving way without due care and attention. Actually, all the three parties (and the parties around them) are to be blamed for causing the accident by creating traffic jam and driving cars. The council is also at fault for not repairing the road condition. It's the society, I tell you. Blame it on the society.

Actually, what's the ethnicity of the truck giving way? We might get important information here.

[WRT]

He shouldnt have been going fast in those situations, but she shouldnt blindly drive across oncoming traffic, regardless of the conditions. She could have:


Signaled to the guys in the truck to check the lane for her and wave her on if its free (not ideal, but better than just pulling out)
Driven down the road to the next intersection where she can safely turn around and come back at your driveway from the other way


I had a situation last night where I needed to turn across Symonds St through three lanes of traffic that backed up over the road I wanted to turn (right) into. Instead of fighting my way through the blocked lanes, I just went 50m further down the road past the end of the queue and turned there. You dont *have* to cross traffic like that.

Another scenario - every morning on my way to work, I take a slightly longer route just so that I dont have to turn across 2 lanes of oncoming traffic. Means I turn left to come on to Gt Sth Rd rather than turning right - safer, and easier. Often its quicker too, as there is less waiting involved. Same principal, just different circumstances. I hate the people that think, theres where I want to go, and head straight in that direction, everyone else be damned. Dont get me wrong, I feel for the lady, and I think that the asian guy was also in the wrong, but she didnt have to make that turn there.

[Mental Trousers]

Whether a judge will have the common sense to go with that or want to cut it clean through the words of the relevant good book... who knows. But I say go with your gut Motu.

The Justice System is incorrectly named - it's Law not Justice. The judge will follow the letter of the law.

[Marmoot]

Instead of fighting my way through the blocked lanes, I just went 50m further down the road past the end of the queue and turned there. You dont *have* to cross traffic like that.

Bling for you, sir.

That is probably one of the most-useful but overlooked tips on driving lessons and tests here.

[Lou Girardin]

Ixion might have it.....she gave way, but the truck driver graciously allowed her thru. Having reached the second lane, she would be at rightangles to the road, meaning the Asian was on her left.
One for the insurance ombudsman and the lawyers??

Turning right implies the whole manouevre, not just until you straighten up. Her obligation was to check the way is clear and to give way to all approaching traffic.
If the Chinese cager was a biker would everyone be so understanding?

[Skyryder]

Where did you see rear ended?



From your original post on this. My itallics.

So I friday I watch as one of my elderly woman customers tries to come across the road,a couple of Pacific Islanders in a small truck stop and let her across,she slowly edges her way in to the inside lane,is halfway across when a young Chinese guy (oops,sorry) comes flying down the inside lane and slams into her.The usual modern Whatamacallit with spoilers colapases completly,the old 1990 Corona has not only the left front wheel folded over,but the right hand strut is bent too.Amid the carnage of my forecourt being ripped apart by diggers the wrecks are taken away.

As I read this the Chinese guy is coming from her rear. If he was not behind where was he?

Skyryder

[Skyryder]

From your original post on this. My itallics.

So I friday I watch as one of my elderly woman customers tries to come across the road,a couple of Pacific Islanders in a small truck stop and let her across,she slowly edges her way in to the inside lane,is halfway across when a young Chinese guy (oops,sorry) comes flying down the inside lane and slams into her.The usual modern Whatamacallit with spoilers colapases completly,the old 1990 Corona has not only the left front wheel folded over,but the right hand strut is bent too.Amid the carnage of my forecourt being ripped apart by diggers the wrecks are taken away.

As I read this the Chinese guy is coming from her rear. If he was not behind where was he?

Skyryder


I have just read some other posts on this, as said I am not famileir with the intersection. But when I read comes flying down the inside lane I made the assumption that they were both going the same way.

Skyryder

[Motu]

If the Chinese cager was a biker would everyone be so understanding?

I would be even less forgiving if a bike came down that inside lane not being aware of what was unfolding before their eyes.Perhaps it's my motorcycling experiance that sees him in the wrong,it's stupidity to ride like that oblivious of your suroundings.

Oh,Marmoot...the guys in the truck were Samoan.I do this same manoevour as the lady in the Corona several times a day - if I see a Pacific Islander in the oncoming queue ahead of me they will always stop and let me through.Once you put your nose slightly into the oncoming lane,the cars in the inside lane stop.

I guess you need to be involved in this intersection on a daily basis.I told my mechanic who was in for the first time since friday about both parties wanting a sumary from me - he's incredulous that the Chinese driver should think he's in the right....he was standing next to me watching as well.

[SPman]

Its just another example of blind fuckwits who think they are the only vehicle on the road and therefore have all the rights, not watching what is going on and being oblivious to all the nuances of a busy congested bit of road where tolerance and caution are paramount. They fuck up, then blame everyone else! Bit like society at large, I suppose, so shouldnt really be surprised!
I find it slightly incredulous given the situation, that people should even be discussing, who was in the right! There was a fuckin crash that could easily have been avoided if people had shown some restraint, caution and a little less arrogance towards their fellow road users!

[FROSTY]

Ive been to Motu's workshop a few times.
His workshop is almost bang on a roundabout.-

[Krusti]

Hey Motu....just remember....you are not required to make any judgement as to who was in the wrong...the main thing is to state what you saw without bias...someone else is paid to make the call..I know it's difficult at times but that's life...

[Motu]

My story won't have any judgments in it,I'll only highlight the care she took in making her move,how far across she was before hit,and the speed the other car was doing with no evaisive action.

[Lou Girardin]

My story won't have any judgments in it,I'll only highlight the care she took in making her move,how far across she was before hit,and the speed the other car was doing with no evaisive action.

What speed exactly was he doing?
How did you measure it?
What evasive action did he have recourse to? Drive onto the footpath? Sideswipe a car in the right lane?
I'm amazed that the knowledge of road rules is so lax that anyone thinks the Chinese guy is mainly at fault.
BTW The truck driver does not have to "give way with due care and attention" there is no such requirement.

[Motu]

Under the speed limit,perfectly legal...there is no speed limit at intersections,you can be doing 50 kph right to the line...can't measure skid marks as he didn't do that part,he took no evaisive action at all.A post investigation of the scene would perhaps indicate that the car appeared suddenly from stationary traffic giving no time to stop or take evaisive action...when in fact the opposite happened.

[Marmoot]

the guys in the truck were Samoan.

They should be charged with 'impending traffic flow' as well

[MisterD]

giving way without due care and attention.

Good grief, I hope they don't start giving out tickets for that!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I had something similar happen to me and i got done for dangeres driving and had to pay up for the other persons car no insured at the time and they where speeding as well.so no sorry in the eyes of the law she is in the wrong.because she was pulling out into on coming cars.

[Flatcap]

Got to agree with busa pete (if I understand his flowing prose correctly)- the old lady pulled into oncoming cars.

I get the impression in some posts that the old lady deserves a break just because she is old. Would there be less discussion if both drivers were boy racers......?

[Motu]

To me it's got nothing to do with the age or race of the people involved...but the complication of who's really at fault.Do we use the law,or do we use driving ability....??

The fact that there is a dispute leads one to suspect insurance issues...and yes,I've found there is.She is uninsured,and she has no problem with that,possibly her late husbands car.Our young Chinese boy is more complicated - he has finance on the vehicle,but only third party.I would of thought he'd have to carry full insurance on a finance deal - this is why he is being so aggressive about proving his innocence,he has been to see the woman with his back up crew several times,he's very pushy...probably why I told him to get lost.

[Rhino]

Had a similar thing happen about 12 months ago in Grafton Rd here in Auckland. I was going down Grafton road from the Grafton Bridge and was waiting to turn right into the Starship Hospital entrance. Below the entrance the road has one lane coming up towards Grafton Bridge. The entrance is marked with the usual "don't stop here" cross hatching. Above the entrance two lanes are marked.

As I sat waiting, the uphill traffic was at a standstill, as the traffic lights were on red. The guy below the entrance flashed his lights and waved me through. When I was half way across, a lady coming up the road, passing on the left in a single marked lane, hit me and removed the front 12 inches of my vehicle.

Since I was convinced that her passing on the left was illegal, I left the car in the middle of the road (f*cked up Friday night traffic) and called the Police.

Eventually I got a letter from them stating that both parties where in the wrong, so no action would be taken.

[SPman]

Legally - shes probably fucked...
Morally - the other driver is a fucktard

Its all very well people getting on their high horse about who is legally in the right or wrong - the trouble is, in a heavy traffic situation, as in a community as a whole, a bit of give and take is neccesary for the smooth running of the whole scenario. It all seems to get lost in the hyper macho bullshit that seems to surround these incidents.........rights always seeming to totally override obligations..!

[John Banks]

Road code issues aside, to me it seems like: She was paying attention and being very (if not overly) careful, he was not - he didn't even have the sense to brake! I would say she is in the right, it was the lad's inattention that caused it.

Apart from anything else, seems like a dick too. Taking a pack of friends to intimidate an old lady?

[Lou Girardin]

To me it's got nothing to do with the age or race of the people involved...but the complication of who's really at fault.Do we use the law,or do we use driving ability....??
.

That's opening a huge can of worms.
If we were judged on ability I'd be immune from prosecution.:cool:

[DEATH_INC.]

I did that a few years ago on my ducati,just down a bit from you on carr rd....I was going up the left of the stopped traffic and some guy decided to edge through and turn up the sideroad....I didn't see him, he didn't see me....bugger....he was cool about it, even though I bent his dads car (oops!) but I still take resposability for it :confused:
The asian bloke was doing what I was so I guess I'd blame him if the finger has to be pointed.....even though legally he may well be in the right.

[Motu]

Yes,both parties have to be on their toes there don't they? - you don't go down the inside without being cautious of someone coming through the stationary lane.....and you don't cut over the stopped traffic into the other lane without being aware that a car might be coming down the inside.Both have to take caution or there will be a prang.


She know's she didn't have a leg to stand on,but was upset by his aggression and unwillingness to accept any responsability on his part.So was I.

[Marmoot]

She know's she didn't have a leg to stand on,but was upset by his aggression and unwillingness to accept any responsability on his part.So was I.

so, "biased judgement" then?

Edit: sorry. Let me clarify: if the court decides based on your testimony, it would be 'biased justice'?

[XTC]

Just say you didn't see it happen...... Easier.

[SlowHand]

So its been 2 months and nothing?

Speed's a funny issue, I had a woman pull out infront of me, both in cars, I had no time to brake, so no skid marks, but cops went from point of impact to where the cars ended up. Cop told me she said I was speeding but he doesnt think so, I said if she saw me, why did she pull out.

Which raises another 'moral' thing, if it were me, I would have been waving and crap to make someone stop/slow down. Unless you were inside the workshop etc or it happened too quickly.

[Motu]

I have no idea what has happened,but he is a young guy with an expensive car on finance...and no insurance,so he's the one in deep poo doo.He'll have to take her to court to get anything out of her.

I can't see up the road - all I saw was his car slam into hers,and the speed he was doing.Anyone who comes up the inside of stationary traffic at 50kph is asking for trouble - but it is legal,you are not breaking any laws...I do it all the time,with my eyes peeled!

[Marmoot]

Cop told me she said I was speeding but he doesnt think so, I said if she saw me, why did she pull out.

DAMN! bloody legend you are. I'll print this quote out and put it in my wallet as my mantra. :killingme

[ChookThief]

To me it's got nothing to do with the age or race of the people involved...but the complication of who's really at fault.Do we use the law,or do we use driving ability....??



Is the Garage at fault for not putting up a no right turn sign into their drive way or changing the driveway layout so they can't? especially when they know its an ongoing problem.

Maybe the witness who knew it was a problem area is at fault for not reporting this earlier so the problem could be sorted.

You could blame almost anyone.

[Motu]

Do you know the intersection?....Do you know who made it?

I do - Keith Hay himself went out there with some curbstones and made the traffic island.Do you know why the motorway stopped at Hilsborough Rd for so many years? Because Keith Hay said so.You can do all sorts when you make your own suburb.

I have no power to go around altering the intersection though....and you better hope no one gives me that power either! That type of ''accident'' is not the most common on the island - trucks and buses hitting cars as they swing wide to turn around the small island is the main one.Cops come out to maybe 10% of them...sometimes I am the wittness,and they are surprised when I tell them it happens many times a day,you'd think high hitting sites would come to their attention.

Anyway,it's got nothing to do with the intersection,but it's got a lot to do with driving skills and awareness.....

[ChookThief]

That type of ''accident'' is not the most common on the island - trucks and buses hitting cars as they swing wide to turn around the small island is the main one.

Anyway,it's got nothing to do with the intersection,but it's got a lot to do with driving skills and awareness.....

I would suggest that as you pointed out the intersection causes most of the accidents, ie the buses and trucks, which would indicate that its not just driving skills and awareness.

Drive ways can be changed even if the road can't be changed restricting access from coming across the two lanes.

By the way blaming the witnesses and garage owners was only to bring up the point that if you look hard enough you can always find some one else to blame.

[Motu]

Well the core of the problem is that they have been sending traffic heading onto the motorway down a street meant to service a small industrial centre and 3 schools,it's just not designed for grid lock 60% of the day.But construction has finally started on the motorway extention....which will take the snarl up to another place,and we can return to a quiet backwater....yeah right.I hope I'm not still here by then.

[ChookThief]

The Local councils and Transit are so slack its not funny. By time they fix any problem area its a. to late and traffic volume has increased to out weigh the work done b. overpriced and costing rate and tax payers more c. repair/redesign no better than before.

I feel sorry for the old lady but she is in the wrong in the eyes of the law. If its not safe and her vision blocked by the truck she should not have turned and she must give way to traffic coming straight through.

[Marmoot]

Do you know the intersection?....Do you know who made it?

I do - Keith Hay himself went out there with some curbstones and made the traffic island.Do you know why the motorway stopped at Hilsborough Rd for so many years? Because Keith Hay said so.You can do all sorts when you make your own suburb.

Sorry, being immigrant who has settled in NZ for only 7 years, may I ask who is Keith Hay? :confused:

[Lou Girardin]

I would suggest that as you pointed out the intersection causes most of the accidents, ie the buses and trucks, which would indicate that its not just driving skills and awareness.

Drive ways can be changed even if the road can't be changed restricting access from coming across the two lanes.

By the way blaming the witnesses and garage owners was only to bring up the point that if you look hard enough you can always find some one else to blame.

You're contradicting yourself.
If the roundabout was the problem, why do the vast majority negotiate it without a problem?

[Ixion]

Sorry, being immigrant who has settled in NZ for only 7 years, may I ask who is Keith Hay? :confused:

Who is Keith Hay ??? :Oops: :shit: :eek: :buggerd: Oh dear. You were doing so well, and now you've been and gone and done it,dropped yourself right in the shit.

But, you may still be able to recover. It's Saturday, no-one at the Immigration dept today who can prepare an urgent Removal Order.

If y' delete the post, there's a chance not too many people will have seen it, and we'll pretend it never happened. By the time Immigration catch up with you on Monday the evidence of your unfortunate solecism will be gone.

[slimjim]

mate does not matter what was happening, the lady was crossing lanes, whether he was going a bit fast or going slow, the person who was crossing into any lane must always apply the right hand rule, period, whether she could see or not, she failed to give way,:spudguita

[ChookThief]

You're contradicting yourself.
If the roundabout was the problem, why do the vast majority negotiate it without a problem?

Try reading from where I quoted from, MOTU stated that most of the accidents, buses and trucks, were caused because the round about was to small, you can't blame just driver skill some accountabilty must be held for road design.

[Marmoot]

Who is Keith Hay ??? :Oops: :shit: :eek: :buggerd: Oh dear. You were doing so well, and now you've been and gone and done it,dropped yourself right in the shit.

But, you may still be able to recover. It's Saturday, no-one at the Immigration dept today who can prepare an urgent Removal Order.

If y' delete the post, there's a chance not too many people will have seen it, and we'll pretend it never happened. By the time Immigration catch up with you on Monday the evidence of your unfortunate solecism will be gone.

oH Well....I'll just ask the officer when they come with my removal order then......

[Motu]

Try reading from where I quoted from, MOTU stated that most of the accidents, buses and trucks, were caused because the round about was to small, you can't blame just driver skill some accountabilty must be held for road design.

''Accidents'' are caused by people,not by roads,cars,bikes or safes falling out of the sky,it's up to the drivers and riders to take the conditions into account and act accordingly...it's so easy to find someone else to blame....

[SPman]

Driving around that area quite extensively for the last few months, the main problem IS the drivers! You have to be on full alert around that area and so many drivers just dont have a clue! I had a couple of close calls around there myself...some drivers have complete tunnel vision and assume everyone will get out of their way - thats if they even see you........
At least they've finished the garage now!

[Motu]

Oh yeah,I got my forecourt back.I guess I should warn all blind sprotsbike riders not to come and see me,there is gravel all over the forecourt....those who open their eyes and see it should have no problem.(uh oh,bet the villiage idiot tells me to go out and sweep it up)

A lot of prangs,and possibly this one too are caused by ''cheaters'' - the left lane is left turn only,the right lane is gridlocked,the left completely clear....very tempting for those in a hurry....

[ChookThief]

Hey I agree that drivers being unaware or careless is the main factor causing accidents, however road design is a factor, this piece of road was not designed for high volume traffic. Well designed roads can minimise accidents, but there will always be those drivers that cause accidents due to their lack of ability/awareness.

My point was that although there is always some one at 'fault' there are also other factors to take into account.

[Motu]

Um,we've just spent 70 posts thrashing that one out - that was the whole point of me starting the thread.