Evil doings afoot

[avrflr]

Some of you may be aware that I binned my bike the other day due to the engine spraying oil all over the rear tyre.

I have just received disturbing news regarding the history of this bike from an anonymous source. Apparently this bike has suffered the exact same failure before and was not ever meant to be road registered again.

There is speculation (from the anonymous source) that the oil filter was cross threaded after it's first service and soon after sprayed all the engine oil out from the oil filter. (The oil filter was the source of the oil in my accident, also.) Someone has stuffed up badly by putting this bike back on the road and selling it to me and putting my life in jeopardy.

The question is: who to sue? The obvious target is the guy who converted it to a road bike. But I find it difficult to believe he would have knowingly put my life in danger and exposed himself to criminal and civil liability for the sake of a few thousand bucks.

I think it's more likely he just didn't know. Opinions?

[The Beast]

That is shithouse mate, hit the person up who sold it to you and see what they say. It may have been an honest mistake, but you don't know unless you ask.

[imdying]

If you're going to get serious about that, you need to contact your lawyer. Only they are truly qualified to comment, and they're worth the money if it turns into a shit flinging contest :)

/edit: tone :/

[gav]

If the person had known, it wouldnt be that hard to safety wire the filter in place would it? Guess its a bit of a give away that its an ex race bike then, but could have saved this circumstance. As for who to blame, was it sold with any warranty? Who did the last service or replaced the oil filter? Frankly think you've got no show of getting anywhere with this but again got nothing to lose. Good luck!
In one of you're threads you mention the guys riding with you noticed it smoking for a while, did they try and wave you down to check it out?

[ZeroIndex]

Good luck at getting money from whoever you can... it sux to get ripped off in any way, especially when your life can be at such risk like that...

[avrflr]

In one of you're threads you mention the guys riding with you noticed it smoking for a while, did they try and wave you down to check it out?


They only saw it start smoking seconds before the accident, and I was giving it a bit on a bigger faster bike so they had no chance of waving me down.

[onearmedbandit]

Is your 'source' willing to go on record? Have you got anything other than hearsay at the moment?

[avrflr]

Is your 'source' willing to go on record? Have you got anything other than hearsay at the moment?
By the sound of it my source most definitely isn't willing to go on record. However, he quoted me the chassis and engine number and other details he provided convince me that he knows what he's talking about.

[2much]

I'd check it out for yourself first (or atleast get the shop to) before you go anywhere. A crossthreaded filter mount won't be hard to spot.

[Motu]

What's being an ex race bike got to do with an oil filter being stripped? Like,that only happens to bikes that have been raced.....I kinda think it might happen to bikes that have their oil filter changed.Dunno what sort of oil filter retaining system the bike has - how about some photos of the offending article so we can make an informed decision,rather than one just based on hearsay?....

[Pixie]

If it's a spin-on filter fitment,how difficult is it to replace a stripped filter stub?
To dispose of a bike for such a minor fault seems strange.

[Mr Skid]

If it's a spin-on filter fitment,how difficult is it to replace a stripped filter stub?
To dispose of a bike for such a minor fault seems strange.Erm.. I think the bike has more than a 'minor' fault now?

[avrflr]

If it's a spin-on filter fitment,how difficult is it to replace a stripped filter stub?
To dispose of a bike for such a minor fault seems strange.
After the initial accident the bike got sent back to Suzuki NZ who then stipulated it was never to be road registered. So whatever the damage was, it was difficult enough to repair that they only used the bike for spare parts until it was sold on to the next guy.

Yes I will investigate the offending oil filter further and hopefully post pics. This evening I just needed to vent my moral outrage.:Oi:

[pritch]

After the initial accident the bike got sent back to Suzuki NZ who then stipulated it was never to be road registered.

That seems pretty radical. Apart from Suzuki buying it back I don't see how they can stipulate much at all. Of course I could be wrong.

The best suggestion yet was the request for a photo.

[avrflr]

Apart from Suzuki buying it back I don't see how they can stipulate much at all.

There's the rub. It sounds like, to fix the problem definitively, they would have had to do an engine block transplant - massive amount of work. So what happens is Bill from Suzuki says to Dave the race mechanic "look, just use that bike as a christmas tree but don't race it and for god's sake don't let anyone road register it." So Dave puts a sticker on the tank as a reminder. At the end of the season maybe Dave is no longer with the team, maybe he forgets. Maybe the sticker fell off. The bike is sold to another racer, who races the bike without incident. He then buys a new bike, tries to sell the old one as a race bike - has no takers. So he figures he'll put it back in street trim, give it a wof + reg and stick it on trademe. Avrflr, being a bit of a fuckwit then buys it, not knowing it's a time bomb.

[gav]

Hmmmm, is this what your "contact" has said re Suzuki NZ? If you approach Suzuki NZ now about the bike, asking just how the hell its got back on the road, wonder what their response would be? Maybe a letter from your lawyer re this could be worth exploring?

[SPman]

...Avrflr, being a bit of a fuckwit then buys it, not knowing it's a time bomb.
That sounds a bit harsh on yourself - you bought it in good faith.

[Ixion]

Hm. Finally found a parts diagram picture of it. Ordinary spin on filter. Looks as if the male thread bit the filter spins onto is cast into the lower crankcase half. So if it *were* thread damaged could be a bit of a task to repair.

Does seem a bit melodramatic though.

(I'm rather guessing here about the bit at the front of the crankcase being the oil filter mount, so if I'm wrong correction is welcomed)

[Motu]

I doubt if Suzuki NZ would write the thing of and never allow it's use again over a filter mount,there would be other more importaint reasons for doing so.LTNZ has a concern with written off motor vehicles ending up back on the road,and some of their silly legislation is to keep track of them....such vehicles are repaired ''out of the system''....but it would need a VIN.So if it was VINed,what's the problem....they don't exactly inspect oil filter mounts as part of the VIN,if they did everyone here would be up in arms with their bike failing on some small technicality....but when the boot's on the other foot....

[Ixion]

Thinking about it, even if the filter mount WAS shagged, and even if that DID mean replacing the lower crankcase, that's not such a big deal to Suzuki. Ordinary person would blanch at the cost, but presumably Suzuki would get it at cost, and in the context of the overall budget for a racing program, it's fairly small change . I can't see them effectively writing off a whole bike just because of that.

And wasn't it claimed that Ray Clee set the motor up. I can't see him missing something like that.

More to this than appears, methinks.

[onearmedbandit]

That's right Motu, when the boot is on the other foot. IF this bike WAS ordered off the road by Suzuki then questions have to be asked. It has nothing to do with the fact the bike was a race bike, in fact no inference was made in the first post. Something along the lines of 'at is's first service'.

This could've had far worse consequences. I think it is fair for questions to be asked.

[TLDV8]

I have just received disturbing news regarding the history of this bike from an anonymous source. Apparently this bike has suffered the exact same failure before and was not ever meant to be road registered again.

There is speculation (from the anonymous source) that the oil filter was cross threaded after it's first service and soon after sprayed all the engine oil out from the oil filter.... Opinions?

Sorry to hear of your off on the bike............. Is someone saying that on a previous occasion this bike had crashed due to a replaceable oil filter nipple being damaged ? (M20/1.5 mm pitch ,i think) ..that the bike was then deemed non road worthy due to that but the VIN was not removed ?.... this person is talking about a simple pipe nipple that threads into the base of the oil filter flange?......Surely there is a lot more to the history of this bike that you need to find out...I am not doubting anything but anyone familiar with that type of filter mount will be scratching their head,it would take some work to start one cross threaded then get it anywhere near seated....... I guess further examination will remove any confusion...Good luck in getting to the bottom of it.

[TLDV8]

Hm. Finally found a parts diagram picture of it. Ordinary spin on filter. Looks as if the male thread bit the filter spins onto is cast into the lower crankcase half. So if it *were* thread damaged could be a bit of a task to repair.

Does seem a bit melodramatic though.

(I'm rather guessing here about the bit at the front of the crankcase being the oil filter mount, so if I'm wrong correction is welcomed)

Mr Ixion.. i am fairly sure that part can be replaced,but could be very wrong....... of course if it isn't and Suzuki did some kind of out the back door sale to a racer leaving the factory VIN plate attached,i think they might be a little in the poo..or someone has managed to get it reVINed ..either way you would think something would have been done as far as the online system,any attempt to get it VINed/registered for the road raising some kind of alarm.

[Ixion]

Did the filter canister actually come right off? Or just leak ? I would have thought that a dicky filter thread would show up fairly quickly as a steadily worsening oil leak? And maybe loss of oil pressure ? If the thread was bad enough for the canister to actually blow off I would have thought (as Mr TLDV8 said) that it would not have been possible to get a leak proof seal when putting the canister on in the first place.

Is it certain the oil filter did come off ? has anyone actually looked at the motor?

EDIT: One would also assume (hope) it would not pass race scrutineering?

[FROSTY]

Maybee just muddying the waters but a sponsored racer I know had a deal where he was allowed to road register his bike long enough to run it in.
He then had to deregister it and "never" ride it on the road again.
Nothing wriong with the bike per se -but it was a condition of his sponsorship.

[SixPackBack]

Hm. Finally found a parts diagram picture of it. Ordinary spin on filter. Looks as if the male thread bit the filter spins onto is cast into the lower crankcase half. So if it *were* thread damaged could be a bit of a task to repair.

Does seem a bit melodramatic though.

(I'm rather guessing here about the bit at the front of the crankcase being the oil filter mount, so if I'm wrong correction is welcomed)

Although the photo does not show it clearly I would be very surprised if the thread is not a secondary part screwed into the block or attached some other way....manufacturing all in one would be expensive and probably unnecessary and fall outside of normal Engineering practice.
As an Engineer I would thread a hole in the block and manufacture and fit a secondary threaded [ and replace able] nipple...hope I make sense!
Good luck with the bike mate. Start shouting and stamping your feet.

[Sniper]

Morally I would be inclined to go after them. Ethically/Technically I would just cut my loses. It would be a mirical if you got them to admit to it without your source wanting to go on record.

[kiwifruit]

thats terrable!
i hope all this get sorted asap
best of luck, Allan.

[Bandit Rider]

The theory that a damaged thread resulted in some sort of "not on the road" order doesn't (on what we know) make sense for the reasons people have already given. If there is something wrong with the thread on the filter mount it is almost certainly the result of being hit in some way, not cross-threaded.

You need way more facts before you can figure out who, if anyone, is responsible. You are wasting your time with lawyers until you know the facts.

Get someone who knows what they are doing (and is prepared to say what they think) to look at it.

Give us some good pictures of the filter (gasket & thread), seat on the crankcase where the oil filter gasket sits, and the threaded stud the filter is mounted on.

There are comments here from engineers and a lawyer. So it's probably not a bad place to start to get things straight.

[Bren_chch]

sorry about ya crash and glad ya ok!



More to this than appears, methinks. I agree!

[Bren_chch]

Also it was only used by Vaughn for 1 season. ;)

[avrflr]

OK, this is where I put my hand up and say "I'm a dick, I jumped to the wrong conclusion". Turns out the source of the oil leak was the bung on the end of the crankcase that is used to access the crank to turn the engine by hand. Just a freakish coincidence that this bike has suffered two unrelated major oil loss incidents.
Thanks for all the opinions and expressions of sympathy. I still don't know why this bung came loose, possibly just human error - not tightened adequately. I guess I'll never know.
I hope the bike has had all of the bad luck it's going to have. Bugjuice is the proud new owner and he is promising to restore the bike to it's former glory. I hope he enjoys it as much as I did - only longer.

[Sniper]

Buggy, owning a Suzuki?

Glad to hear you are OK

[Motoracer]

BJ, so you'r the one!!

Damn, you beat me to it. I was so close to arranging everything too.. I'm jelouse

Oh well, good to see a mate get a great bargain. Congrats man, best of luck with putting it back together!

[bugjuice]

:o i actually wasn't going to say much just yet.. i know (probably not the half of it) of how many riders were after this bike!

The reasoning for this bike is just a series of coincidences that just couldn't be ignored. I've nearly finished the current project bike, so I was looking for the next. I've been looking more towards newish thous, and on the night of the day I was starting to seriously look around, this happened.

I plan on restoring it to its former road glory. I'll then be out on the roads, and seeing what I prefer. To be truthful, I can't see myself selling the 636. But then, why can't you have 2 toys..?? lol.. we'll see i guess

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Hmmm strange end to what was an interesting looking discussion. A lot of unanswered questions about the history and the vining etc. Suppose it needs to be left here but still a lot of questions were raised. I was about to ask for bike details and see if we could get Zuki NZ to answer a few. A cloud was cast on them or one of their representative companies in respect to the first service. Anyway best left I think, but please do more home work before we send out the clouds and all the grim reapers gather to attack a company or worse an individual.
Bloody sorry you had the off avrflr. :crazy:

[texmo]

Hey buggy dont supose you need the cash even more now hence really cheep sale of your 'current project'?

[bugjuice]

nice try ;)



I'm gonna have a proper good look over the bike when I get it, and find out as much as I can about its history both on and off the track, and find out what and why things have gone wrong with this bike. For as long as I have it, these issues of oil depletion ain't gonna happen with me on it..

[texmo]

Cant blame a fella for trying, good luck with this man. Will be good to see which one ends up being sold. As nice as it is to have 2 toys, you do have a girl friend:pinch:

[bugjuice]

I never count my luck - something always ends up falling out of sync then.. I'm just counting the blessings and hoping the high lasts for a while..

[Motoracer]

Hey Buggie, since I am so pissed off about you swiping my future race bike from right under my nose. How about you let me have a go on it, to make it up to me?! ;)

[Firefight]

dont, fuckin paint it Orange:sick:


oh, yeah congrats on stealing it away from my best mate, :angry:

will meet you later to discuss this serious breach of Fight Club conduct:nono:

F/F:shit:

[bugjuice]

it's kinda orange.. when the sun hits it, and you squint real hard.. as in your eyes are shut.. then it looks really orange..

can't wait to get it down 22. just don't wanna die

[enigma51]

it's kinda orange.. when the sun hits it, and you squint real hard.. as in your eyes are shut.. then it looks really orange..

can't wait to get it down 22. just don't wanna die
No thats rust!

Glad to hear you finaly bought a real motorcycle!

[bugjuice]

i might squash it, to make a point...










nah, couldn't do that actually..