Tank Slapper

[Two Smoker]

Hey everyone,

I saw the famous footage that Le Mans reposted of the tank slapper.... That got me thinking, how many of you have had a tankslapper and what were the consequences....?? also were there instances where you rode it out, ie accelerating to lift the front wheel..? I hope like anything it wont happen to me, but im sure it will one day.......

Cheers everyonce :niceone:

[James Deuce]

Hey everyone,

I saw the famous footage that Le Mans reposted of the tank slapper.... That got me thinking, how many of you have had a tankslapper and what were the consequences....?? also were there instances where you rode it out, ie accelerating to lift the front wheel..? I hope like anything it wont happen to me, but im sure it will one day.......

Cheers everyonce :niceone:

Had one on my RG400 going like the clappers along the Paekakariki rd. It was along the bit near the Pauatahanui village where there is a couple of final twisties to finish off the ride heading Sth. Banked left, then right, and nailed it mid corner. Hit a bump just as the front went light. Lucky for me the front came off the ground and the front stayed stable as it landed or I would have been through a fence and into a paddock.

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah, on a CB750 MOT bike. Started at 140km/h, finally spat me off at 100. I used to bounce in those days.
The bosses put an 80 km/h limit on them for a while after that.
Lou

[wkid_one]

Yup - had a blinder not long after I got the R1. Combination of heavy right hand, light front end and a small bump on the exit of a corner saw me wiggle my way down the next 50m.

Had a few more since then. I just let the front end do its thing and try not to hang on to the bars too tight to avoid transfering any of the movement to the rear of the bike - it tends to sort itself out. Had I not sold the R1 - I would have had a damper on it pretty soon.

[Jackrat]

Twice,First time on a Suzuki T500,That one I buttoned off and it came right.
Second one was a Suzuki GS 850G and it spat me off and then landed on top of me.Also known as a straight line high side.Not fun.!!
The 850's were well known for it.
My current bike could also do it without to much encouragement.
Next on the shopping list is a good stearing damper.

[Racey Rider]

Yep! One here!
Pushing the RZ250 a little hard on the way home, along a narrow back country road I'ld ridden lots of times. leaning into the corner tightly, (not getting the knee down ofcourse, couse you'ld end up with cow S... all over your jeans), maybe a little TOO tightly. Pothole! Or should I say, Edge of the road hole, Slap, Slap, Slap, Slap, Slap then came right. :sweatdrop It wasn't cow S... over my jeans that day!

[wkid_one]

Second one was a Suzuki GS 850G and it spat me off and then landed on top of me.Also known as a straight line high side.Not fun.!!
.
And not overly pleasant to watch either....ouch. I still remember the one with the motogp rider who got flicked off the bike but held on and was sliding along the track standing up beside the bike trying to slow it down - now he deserved a DB

[speedpro]

I've ridden Kawasaki triples and Z1s, and a Honda CB750. So plenty of tank slapping at times. The closest to departing the bike was on the old club circuit at Puke just coming off the main circuit towards the start/finish on a GSX1100. The front was coming off the ground as it swapped sides and the front engine mounting bolt was missing afterwards, probably the cause. People on the hill afterwards said they could hear the front tyre chirping. I ended up sitting on the gas cap.
My brother had a cracker on his GPz600R on a corner just out of Rottenrua when he clipped a bump while peeled into a corner. No warning on that one just straight into a full on tank slapper and into the weeds. I'd hit it on my GPz500S and thought it might cause a problem for him and checked the mirrors just in time to see him disappear. I think those 16" front wheel Kawasakis were worse than the older bikes, except the triples, as they were either sweet or tank slapping to the stops with no warning.
The McIntosh wiggles a bit down the front straight at Puke, especially if the damper isn't wound in but you can fix that by either backing off a bit to plant the front or gassing it to stop it skipping from bum to bump. Actually not too sure if backing off would fix it, haven't deliberately tried it.

[speedpro]

bum?? Wrong forum - sorry!

[FROSTY]

The old club circuit at pukekohe used to have a lip about 40mm high just before the start finish line. I think everybody got tank slappers to one extent or the other. The worst one I was involved in was a kwakka KR1 rider who's slapper just seemed to get worse and worse till he finally got shaken off the bike -It happened ruight in front of me just as I was hitting the line that caused the tankslappers. Shat me daks as I tried to control my bike and steer round the debris.
In between race bikes I used to punt an ex cop xj750 round tauranga raceway. Those that remember the place will remember turn one was a decreasing radius corner with a wicked bump at the end.
The old XJ used to give a real nasty slapper as she hit that bump.

[Jackrat]

Any body know what you are supposed to do when it happens.??
The first time it happened to me I backed off and was lucky.
With my 850 it would always start to wobble a bit at 120km so you just pushed it through,when you came back down it would give a little shake again at 120 but wasn't much to worry about.The day it chucked the big one I had just passed a car on a passing lane with a corner in it.That time she slapped instantly with no warning as I came out of the corner.
That was on the first passing lanes after turning off the motoway heading for Puke' just past the apple place.
I have a thing about stearing head bearings and correct suspension set up now days. :sweatdrop

[Vagabond]

:thud: Had a few in my time riding, especially in the 80's, Z750 ,Z1000.
Had a really bad fall on the Z750 actually wrote the bike off as it had holes on both sides of the tank where the clubmans punched through, the tank slap started when I hit a really good bump in the road (dead straight) was busy accelerating and can remember seeing the needle creep past 160km/h, thats when all hell broke loose :ar15:
Initially I also thought you could just keep accelerating out of it, I actually dropped a gear when I realised things wern't improving, I then locked my arms at the elbows and that was the end for me as the handlebars then started to shake me around like a rag doll! :shake:
The next thing I remember was my elbow hitting the ground and I was still basically in the riding position, but the bike was going down the road on it's side the foot peg dug in and I was then thrown high side. Boy was that painfull.

The next day I went back to the crash site and only then did I realise how lucky I was to still be walking around, as from the first scratch marks to where I stopped was just under 200m, the bike carried on for another 50 odd meters where it ended up against a tree.

But my reason for writing is that Iv'e learnt to keep accelerating when in a tank slap and apply the rear brake at the same time this tends to straighten it out very quickly. :2thumbsup

Hope my advice will help you out in your time of need !

[Wonko]

Had it happen to me twice, both post crash. First time shoot off from the Greenlane/Manauku road lights and hit 80ish and saw nothing ahead of me till the next red light, so sat up and took both hands of the bars. As I slowed down passing 70 the bars started to slap, managed to grab both, change down a gear, and hold on. As soon as I'd changed gear it disapeared, leaving only a brown stain in my pants to show it had ever happend. times slowing down while going along Greenlane road.

Next time heading off the motorway at Greenlane, sat more upright putting less weight on the handles, and letting the rev's slow me down. As I was about to change down the bars gave a quick one-two-three-four before I clicked down. Again magiclly disapearing.

[Ghost Lemur]

[Spot the n00b]

What's a tank slapper?

[/Spot the n00b]

[DEATH_INC.]

Had a good one on my mates TL1000s out hunua,just pulling past my mate doing about 240kph and she just went mental,no real reason.Kept her nailed (good old MX learning :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse,the whole bike was leaping from side to side (the rear was trying to come around :eek5: )my mate who owned it was following and said he could see daylight under both wheels.....got to the point I knew it wasn't gonna come out of it and started looking for somewhere to crash it(I still had a bit of directional control.....)and decided to try to slow down a bit before I hit the ground :doctor: ,and buttoned off(amazing how fast yer brain works in these situations isn't it?)......and it stopped :argh: Didn't ride it far after that :sweatdrop
When I gave it back to my mate(after a quick change of daks)He told me 'yeh it does that,I just button off and it stops'(though he'd never had it happen that fast....) :kick:

[riffer]

[Spot the n00b]

What's a tank slapper?

[/Spot the n00b]
Go here. There's a classic Isle of Mann tankslapper.

http://www.utahsba.com/html/gallery/video/video_2.html

[James Deuce]

[Spot the n00b]

What's a tank slapper?

[/Spot the n00b]

Here's a nice intellectual study on roading induced slappers.

http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/roadforcing.pdf

Here's a cute little Elmer Fudd cartoon

http://www.hawgeye.com/sniffy.htm

Basically it's when your bars oscillate at their natural frequncy, smashing your thumbs against the tank repeatedly; if you ride a sportsbike that is. I saw an HD rider with ape hangers wildly waving at me on the Southern motorway in Auckland once - until I realised that not many people wave violently with the entire front end of their bike.

[Motu]

The worst ones I've had have been on the beach in soft sand - these are huge steering stop to steering stop,the bike slaming side to side under you.There is no way to fight these,with the sand build up in front of the wheel if you locked your arms you'd be tossed off.Ridden them to a stop,but othertimes using the rear brake can help.

Riding an XS650 such things are an every ride occurance,but they involve the whole bike and it seems to be a lesurely experiance - in the corners it goes ''chink,chink,chink'' as the whole bike flaps around.At higher speeds it's bloody scary,feels like you are riding an origami bike.

The XLV750 has done some scary ones at speed - but I've found out why,so that helps.Seems I am getting air time or close to it,and countersteering at the same time in the corner - when we come down the front wheel is at an angle...so it straightens up with a mother of a wobble,so I don't blame the bike anymore.

[FROSTY]

Had a good one on my mates TL1000s out hunua,just pulling past my mate doing about 240kph and she just went mental,no real reason.Kept her nailed (good old MX learning :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse,the whole bike was leaping from side to side (the rear was trying to come around :eek5: )my mate who owned it was following and said he could see daylight under both wheels.....got to the point I knew it wasn't gonna come out of it and started looking for somewhere to crash it(I still had a bit of directional control.....)and decided to try to slow down a bit before I hit the ground :doctor: ,and buttoned off(amazing how fast yer brain works in these situations isn't it?)......and it stopped :argh: Didn't ride it far after that :sweatdrop
When I gave it back to my mate(after a quick change of daks)He told me 'yeh it does that,I just button off and it stops'(though he'd never had it happen that fast....) :kick:
Bugger--and noone there to video it for ya :scooter:

[Posh Tourer :P]

My dad had one when he rode over a patch of farmer's dirt tracks on a sealed road at about 120. Didnt remember anything, concussed for 2 days, but apparently had a mean tank slapper start and throw him off the bike

[Holy Roller]

Only get them when on right hand corners that tighten as they go and if I'm 20 + kph over. First time gave one heck of a fright.
Coming from Tepuke to Rotovegas thought I was about to bin it. Like most of the other posts I somehow slowed down and rode through it. Must of given the oncoming cars a bit of a fright though. Now i am more careful leaning to the right.

[vifferman]

speedpro said:

I think those 16" front wheel Kawasakis were worse than the older bikes, except the triples, as they were either sweet or tank slapping to the stops with no warning.
I've never actually had a proper tankslapper, but the VF500 I used to own (with the 16" front wheel) started one when I hit some bumps near Picton doing about 160. Luckily, it stopped as quickly as it started, so by the time I registered what it was, it was over. I think if I'd had the Dunlop Arrowcrap I replaced the Metzeler front with, it would have been worse, as the fookin thing had headshake the whole time it was on, especially if you took one hand off the bars. Two hands? No way - it went mental.

The Firestorm tends to give a bit of a wiggle accelerating out of corners as the front end gets air, but it's never been a cause for concern, although a couple of times it's got a wee bit crossed up.

[Kwaka-Kid]

Umm, had a minor kinda one on the GS1000 in the wet going to work when i had the old tyres on.. it was weird, because 5th gear winding on power started to wheel spin and get a little out of control and i remember like just the whole bike shaking around and nearly falling off, or at least i thought i was nearly going to as it was like so scary! anyways just got one @ last pukekohe meet over the hill on the VFR400 and still dont understand exactly why and stuff but i did absolutly nothing... just carried on and it stopped, chances are it was like the most minor one you get but to me sitting on the bike i thought it was all over for sure! felt like i was just a rag doll waiting for it to get bigger and bigger - ask Keith Brock as i came around the outside of him shaking away and cut right across his line, thank god he had brakes because i sure as hell didnt have brains on what to do!

[Kickaha]

Crossing the Waiau river bridge on a XJ550 pulled out passed a car indicating 180kmh as it hit the 160kmh mark as I slowed it went into a violent shake,by the time I thought WTF it had already stopped.

[Big Dog]

Only ever had the one, funnily enough twelve hours after reading about it in a book from the library.

I was pitched in up north accellerating uphill when I hit a lump on the apex. Bugger!

On about the third oscillation i remembered that advice of the book picked a side (the side with the most road on it helps) and pulled on it as it started to slap to that side. This upsets the rythum and then treated it like any other vagueness at the frontengine brake and for Feck sake no front brake.

It worked for me. I only ever "tried" it the once, but I survived.

[Motu]

Sidecars alway have a shake somewhere in their speed range,you just make sure you don't go that speed.On one of mine I could take my hands off the bars - no wobble,give them a tap and she'd shake away forever,just a touch on the bars and it'd stop.

I've got some videos of mile flattrack - they come down the straight at 140mph,tucked down on the tank,one hand on the throttle,the other holding a fork leg - the bikes are shaking like crazy,you expect them to get spat off anytime,but no worries,they all do that.

[jimbo600]

Hey everyone,

I saw the famous footage that Le Mans reposted of the tank slapper.... That got me thinking, how many of you have had a tankslapper and what were the consequences....?? also were there instances where you rode it out, ie accelerating to lift the front wheel..? I hope like anything it wont happen to me, but im sure it will one day.......

Cheers everyonce :niceone:

I had a belter in the UK on a FZR600. Shook so hard it wound off the headrace bearing locknut. What did I do? Shit my pants is what. Normal behaviour for the old FZR600 apparently though.

[Marknz]

Hey everyone,

I saw the famous footage that Le Mans reposted of the tank slapper.... That got me thinking, how many of you have had a tankslapper and what were the consequences....?? also were there instances where you rode it out, ie accelerating to lift the front wheel..? I hope like anything it wont happen to me, but im sure it will one day.......

Cheers everyonce :niceone:

Late last year I was test riding the 03 CBR600RR on one of the backroads around Canberra. Went to overtake one of those not-so-small trucking bohemoths and would had to have been doing approx 140-150 at the time. Probably just had the front end come down on one of those tits in the road and it was all on. Have no idea to this day how I saved it, but it all came together and I was so cacking myself that I got off the bike to have a think about things. The aforementioned truckie pulls up and asks me "that was pretty Impressive, how the f#$k did you save it?". "I got no freaking idea!" and we both had a good laugh.

[DEATH_INC.]

I forgot to mention I had a biggie on the ZX12 doin about 200k when I landed it from a wheelie with the bars turned.....couldn't physically hold on to it,it was so violent that i had one foot on the road(thank f**k race boots slide eh)and was just hanging on with my knees.....
One of my mates got spat off an XJ750 a few years back at about 180kph when he hit some bumps on a bridge going into whangarei too.....

[Two Smoker]

Shit those are some pretty scary events as well as some pretty amazing saves..... It seems the majority of them started when in mid corner and hitting a bump or popping the wheel and ladning with the bars turned:wacko: :eek5: keep the tank slapping stories coming guys :niceone: i think people might be learning from it (i certainly am.....)

Cheers

Two Smoker

[Death 'N' Taxes]

The only one I have had was on an old 1986 GSXR750. Sitting at the lights on Grafton Road turning right to go up the Stanley St on ramp heading south (prior to the big roadworks).

Next to me on the inside of the turn was a guy on a 250 who thought he could give me a go. So I accelerated hard into the turn, back end got a bit loose. I did want you're not supposed to do and shut the throttle, tyre got grip and bike tried to flip me. Held on, only to go through a nasty tank slapper with my legs flapping about hitting the sides of the bike. Once the bike slowed it was fine. But after looking like a complete prat I nailed it up to the m'way, went around the left hander and found a wall of traffic - slammed on the front brakes but nothing happened. Pumped as hard as I could and got them to work finally.

Ended up speaking to a mechanic who said that those bikes were prone to throw the pistons in the callipers out from the disk during a tank slapper and you have to pump them to regain contact with the disk.

One shit scary experience.

[Bleck K6]

Had a good one on my mates TL1000s out hunua,just pulling past my mate doing about 240kph and she just went mental,no real reason.Kept her nailed (good old MX learning :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse,the whole bike was leaping from side to side (the rear was trying to come around :eek5: )my mate who owned it was following and said he could see daylight under both wheels.....got to the point I knew it wasn't gonna come out of it and started looking for somewhere to crash it(I still had a bit of directional control.....)and decided to try to slow down a bit before I hit the ground :doctor: ,and buttoned off(amazing how fast yer brain works in these situations isn't it?)......and it stopped :argh: Didn't ride it far after that :sweatdrop
When I gave it back to my mate(after a quick change of daks)He told me 'yeh it does that,I just button off and it stops'(though he'd never had it happen that fast....) :kick:

I was in front of DEATH.INC when this happened.
All I noticed was the headlight in my mirror waving all over the place, Then he went past me I was doin about 240kph & he started slowing down,He pulled over & switched back not long after that.

[Big Dog]

Here's a nice intellectual study on roading induced slappers.

http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/roadforcing.pdf


Well after reading the whole thing ... finally, it has become apparrent that outsisde of the description of the program used to simulate the experience outside of the physical perameters of the original design the only thing a rider can do is weigh 20kg more, or lean over the tank. Unless i have lost the ability to read techy data the intention was to desribe how to use autosim and how it will benifit designers, which parameters are user defined etc.
Endless references to data not supplied left me feeling :eek5: .
If anyone else found a more salient point be my guest.

ps the 20kg thing might be why in 160,000kms I have only experienced one tank slapper, as in theory I am 2.2 riders. (based on Industry standard of assuming that average rider weight is 68kgs)

[Deano]

I was in front of DEATH.INC when this happened.
All I noticed was the headlight in my mirror waving all over the place, Then he went past me I was doin about 240kph & he started slowing down,He pulled over & switched back not long after that.

Used to get quite a few on the two stroker, kept the throttle hard on and hung on to the bars a bit tighter, all good - had a couple on the SP-1 but not too bad.

Never ridden a TL but I would have been swapping bikes back after that experience.....or if I owned it I would fit a steering damper or have the thing checked out.....best thing to do though would be to buy a HONDA :2thumbsup

[MacD]

Here's a nice intellectual study on roading induced slappers.
http://www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/roadforcing.pdf


Interesting read! ;)

The other point that may be of use to people is that increasing your front suspension damping (ie: fork damping) reduces the "weave mode resonance" at higher speeds - in other words, tank slappers. :ride:

That, and as Big Dog pointed out, gaining 20-30kg would help too!

[Bleck K6]

Used to get quite a few on the two stroker, kept the throttle hard on and hung on to the bars a bit tighter, all good - had a couple on the SP-1 but not too bad.



Never ridden a TL but I would have been swapping bikes back after that experience.....or if I owned it I would fit a steering damper

I have had a couple on the TLR but it just rides through them.

His was a 99TLS all TL's had steering dampers from factory after the problems they had in 97.

As for buying a honda? they just don't do it for me. :2thumbsup

cheers

[FROSTY]

I saw a guy today on a little stroker get a nasty looking slapper after the rail crossin in new lynn. I think that guy fair shat his daks -arms and legs flying in all directions--then it seemed to settle down and he rode off--slowly

[2_SL0]

I found tanks slappers occur on both my KDX and KX dirtbikes. Best advice was open up the throttle. (as someone else pointed out, MX style "When in doubt, GAS IT" I prob dont recommend that for the road. :eek5:

[TwoSeven]

I get a wicked head shake on my 250 just about every day, but its deliberate.

I have a right hand corner that I nail in first and exit full throttle in 2nd. As the bike comes upright I let go of the bars and sit up. Then grab the bars ready to nail a sharp left half throttle in 2nd.

When I let go of the bars the weight drops back on the front that shakes something wicked. Is fun and I always forget to not let go of the bars for that corner. Sorts itself out if I get back on the gas again. Probably the only corner I know of where a steering damper would help. :)

[Lou Girardin]

As the bike comes upright I let go of the bars and sit up. Then grab the bars ready to nail a sharp left half throttle in 2nd.
:)

Let go of the bars?

RIP

[pipeman]

Yep not a nice feeling, fear shit me self. I had just past two of my mates fear giving it on my RGV250 on long left and just come over a small crest lifting the front when keeped on giving it gas to get out of it. nealy broke my rists off though. also on my old CB750 could never work that one out because they DONT have a very steep rake i think the problem was in the rare some where if that makes seen.

[aff-man]

full lock tank slapper at 180km/h front wheel locking up. Managed to hold it together somehow but fully fucked the front wheel bearings

[Fryin Finn]

You get tank slappers in soft sand on heavy trail bikes. The bikes bang side to side eventually ploughing the front end and spitting you over the handle bars. You get up saying "oh dear that was unpleasant" and repeat the proceedure until you learn to ride flat out in sand and ignore the wobbles until you have to stop. :doctor:

[2_SL0]

You get tank slappers in soft sand on heavy trail bikes. The bikes bang side to side eventually ploughing the front end and spitting you over the handle bars. You get up saying "oh dear that was unpleasant" and repeat the proceedure until you learn to ride flat out in sand and ignore the wobbles until you have to stop. :doctor:

YEP, you learn quickly from that problem, it helps develop the no FEAR atitude for sand riding. :eek5:

[TwoSeven]

Let go of the bars?

RIP

No hands riding is just one of those bad habbits.

[Kwaka-Kid]

like wanking?




:P

[onearmedbandit]

My best, or worst for that matter, happened on my first gixxer 750, the original 85 model. Suppossedly it was an ex production track bike, but only ridden for about 5 races. There were two of them, both in mint condition with original fairings and very tidy full stop. My brother and I were to buy them both, but in the end I couldn't raise the coin, so my brother bought the best of the two. (The owner was one of the riders of that year and owns a bike outfit here in town). It was relatively std, we know the carbs were bored out, and the engine was blueprinted and balanced, but that was about it.

Anyway, it proved too much for him so he sold it to me. So, on my first open road blast, with my friend on his gixxer we set off to Akaroa. Being young, dumb, and full of, yeah well you know, we started to race each other, full throttle shit, which was all good and proper through twisties. However, when I approached 180km/h the bike would go into a 'death weave'. Determined to wring its neck I move my body around the bike until I found a position that allowed me to go past the magic 180 mark. Big mistake. The bike pulled like it was in 2nd gear and before I knew it I was at an indicated 260km/h and still pulling when I hit a bump in the road. Next thing I knew I was looking at the mudguard and the road, visioned blurred, feet in the air and thinking, 'this is it, I'm dead'. No shame in admitting that I had no control in the situation, just a passenger, a damned lucky one because next thing I'm back on the bike (well, half on) and slowing down. Turned around, went back to town, put new tyres on her and cured it instantly. Without a doubt, that is the scariest thing ever to happen to me on a bike.

(BTW, the gearing was stock 85 gixxer)

[Morepower]

Had a good one on my mates TL1000s out hunua,just pulling past my mate doing about 240kph and she just went mental,no real reason.Kept her nailed (good old MX learning :rolleyes: ) and it just got worse and worse,the whole bike was leaping from side to side (the rear was trying to come around :eek5: )my mate who owned it was following and said he could see daylight under both wheels.....got to the point I knew it wasn't gonna come out of it and started looking for somewhere to crash it(I still had a bit of directional control.....)and decided to try to slow down a bit before I hit the ground :doctor: ,and buttoned off(amazing how fast yer brain works in these situations isn't it?)......and it stopped :argh: Didn't ride it far after that :sweatdrop
When I gave it back to my mate(after a quick change of daks)He told me 'yeh it does that,I just button off and it stops'(though he'd never had it happen that fast....) :kick:
A tank slapper on a TL ??? :shake: couldnt be !! the most stable bike on the road :done:
:ride:

Been there( at lower speed thank god), the steeringdamper takes care of it though , just got to ride it with soft hands theres nothing to be gained by fighting it.

Dave

[Mongoose]

Had one memorable one on the Guzzi SP1000 but did manage to stay aboard.
Still remember it clear as, it was one of those ultra fast/slow motion thinking sessions. Throttle on?Throtle off? On? Off? On YES and relaxed grip as much as on the bars as i could feel the whole bike starting to want to follow the bars lead in that dance.
Fortunately not a real tight corner, maybe a tad faster than it should have been taken, but the main culprit was some left over frost grit, only about 6 inches square, if that, that started it.

[Two Smoker]

I have had a couple mean short ones on the ZXR400 just recently..... mainly from hitting big bumps...

[aff-man]

I have had a couple mean short ones on the ZXR400 just recently..... mainly from hitting big bumps...

just wait they get a hell of a lot worse believe me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Was talking to hoon and he said that maybe the forks need to be re-done. He had some interesting times before he re-did his.