Courts waive $41.5 million in fines

[riffer]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3601873a10,00.html

Can someone please explain to me:

a) Why anyone should bother paying fines; and
b) if a lot of these fines are for speeding, does that make a further mockery of the speed kills campaign/speedcameras etc...

your opinions please?

[bugjuice]

bollox. i've just paid a fine too. had i known this, why should i have bothered?

[spudchucka]

Surely that can't be right? I mean to say, it is all about revenue gathering, isn't it?

[marty]

Mr Power said serial non-payers were appearing before the courts and judges had limited options to deal with them.

the fines were REMITTED, not waived. that is, they were (in the main) swapped for another sentence.

this is the main issue. it's not joe public who keeps themselves honest and pays the bills on time. if you want to rack up $20000 in fines, then be a total loser and go through all the hassles of community service, disqualified driving, general tosser behaviour (speaking of which - did you see that loser from chch complaining cause his skyline was being impounded for his $18000 of fines the other night?).

i doubt if your $170 speeding fine is going to be worth doing community service for

[ManDownUnder]

Why write it off???

ESCALATE the fucken things... if the fine remains unchallenged at the time it falls due, hand it to the Tax Department.

They have to pay... and if they don't, cancel driver's licence, passports etc till they do.

That's MY MONEY they're giving away... MINE.

Fucken idiots

[ManDownUnder]

i doubt if your $170 speeding fine is going to be worth doing community service for

All good points, but I'd challenge the last statement... if you simply "refuse to pay" then yes - community srvice or whatever for you...

No point in issuing threats (or penalties) if they're not going to be enforced.
edit - see remitted (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=remitted)

Cancelled, written off etc. That's not a swap for something else... it's a get out of jail card.

[enigma51]

Well that confirms it im a nice law abiding citizen I pay my fines! But apparently (after reading this) im an idiot as well.

[Str8 Jacket]

I work for the MOJ in Collections, specifically dealing with the Top 20 fines defaulters in NZ. As the media has stated the top fines defaulter in NZ owes 1.8 million and has left the country as have most of the top 10. For these we cannot do anything but issue a WTA (warrant to arrest) for when they come back into the country. However all that does is put the person up in front of the judge who then assesses the defendants means to pay. If a person who owes a sizeable amount of fines has no assets etc then they can be imprisoned or given community service. The courts are also able to get charging orders over peoples property even if they are not residing in NZ. Yes some people do have their fines remitted but there are many "guidelines" that a judge has to follow.
I believe that some of the $$ included in these figures will be put down to businesses that have been written of, liquidated or similar and those fines are now deemed uncollectbale same goes if someone is deceased. You will be amazed at the lies people tell just to get out of paying their fines, sometimes they get away with it. Alot of people fail to take responsibility for their actions and unfortunately no one can make them no matter what processes or procedures are in place. People change their names and all do all sorts of things to avoid paying their fines. However like alot of people here it angers me to see some peoples fines being remitted/wiped whatever is the case.

[ManDownUnder]

As the media has stated the top fines defaulter in NZ owes 1.8 million and has left the country as have most of the top 10.

Cheers for that

A couple of questions.. (not having a go at you - just trying to understand).

1) How does one rack up $1.8 million in fines? I'd expect to be hauled in front of a judge long before that... Are they speeding, parking, other?
2) What is the total debt across all 10, or what is the debt owed by #10?

Cheers
MDU

[Str8 Jacket]

MDU, its all good mate. Its just a job, not a religion.....

Answer to question 1 - He was winding the odometers back on cars he was selling, cant go into too much detail because of the privacy act however when he knew that he was getting in trouble he left the country. He now owns and operates a car yard in Aussie and we cant do anything. NZ courts/law has no power in any other country which is why many serial fines defaulters leave...

I cannot answer question 2. I like being paid.

[The Stranger]

Surely that can't be right? I mean to say, it is all about revenue gathering, isn't it?

Sure it is, and this is entirely consistent with that.
They are simply wiping the ones which are going to cost more to collect than the income they will generate.

In fact it reinforces the position that it is revenue based, were it about justice or some other pipe dream they wouldn't let up would they.

[Jonty]

It is an interesting problem. The fine system, although aimed at being fair, does disadvantage some. For instance, a person on $200K a year isn't going to give two shites about a $170 speeding ticket. To someone on the DPB this is a huge amount of money. I am not saying that these fines should be imposed, I just think that we can not expect everyone to pay these fines upfront. Some people, even though they have made a mistake, will think logically community service will be a more effective way of paying the fine. Currently to do this they can only simly refuse to pay and wait for a court date.

My view is that the community service program should be updated and better funded. If people get a ticket they can have the choice to work it off or pay it off. It may be that community service for not paying fines should not be marked on your record. This way the offender is still punished but they can immediatley (without hassle) perform a valuable service to the community without bankrupting them.

[Str8 Jacket]

In fact it reinforces the position that it is revenue based, were it about justice or some other pipe dream they wouldn't let up would they.

Of course it is. Thats why it pays to pay your fine or dispute it before it goes to court. The courts are just like Baycorp - the issuing authority tickets the person, you dont pay it before its due it goes to court with an extra $30 banged on top of it, when its late with the courts another $100 on it.
As for it being too hard, thats definately not a reason, there have to be many reasons for why a fine is wiped. The unit I work in is relatively new, we are paid to track and trace people who dont pay their fines some of theses fines date back to 1980..... they are putting more and more measures in place to find these people.

As I said previously its just a job to me, im not going to get offended at those who are angry with the processes/courts/law/world in general etc, I worked as a fines collector at the contact centre for almost 2 years believe me it makes you very thick skinned! However someone needs to do my job, if it wasnt me it'd be someone else.

[enigma51]

It is an interesting problem. The fine system, although aimed at being fair, does disadvantage some. For instance, a person on $200K a year isn't going to give two shites about a $170 speeding ticket. To someone on the DPB this is a huge amount of money. I am not saying that these fines should be imposed, I just think that we can not expect everyone to pay these fines upfront. Some people, even though they have made a mistake, will think logically community service will be a more effective way of paying the fine. Currently to do this they can only simly refuse to pay and wait for a court date.

My view is that the community service program should be updated and better funded. If people get a ticket they can have the choice to work it off or pay it off. It may be that community service for not paying fines should not be marked on your record. This way the offender is still punished but they can immediatley (without hassle) perform a valuable service to the community without bankrupting them.


You do the crime you pay the fine!

Im with you on the last paragraph!

[marty]

that community service/pay a fine thing is a great idea.

and yeah, i know remitted is to cancel, but in the context of remitting fines, they are almost always replaced by some other sentence. unfortunately the hourly rate usually works out to be about $500/hr

[marty]

although here's a question. if i got a $300 speeding fine, should i do community work to pay it off, or a saturday afternoon extra at work?

[Jonty]

although here's a question. if i got a $300 speeding fine, should i do community work to pay it off, or a saturday afternoon extra at work?

Whatever you like I guess. Maybe an afternoon at work will mean you don't have to spend a day cleaning out the blocked sewage drain outside my flat :shifty:

[Sutage]

fuck gimme community service over an 1100 fine anyday
where/who do i see to do this?

[Str8 Jacket]

fuck gimme community service over an 1100 fine anyday
where/who do i see to do this?

Well firstly you have to prove that you have no income (we data check with WINZ and IRD) no assets (they would rather seize the vehicle that you got the fine in) they can and will seize household goods for fines. Once that is established and you have absolute proof that your not lying about your income situation your "profile" will be put up in front of the judge who will decide.
Be aware that if you have any income the courts can legally deduct up to 40% of your income directly from it. This will also cost you an extra $100 per fine as its enforcement. Community service is not supposed to be given out lightly but it appears to be all to common these days...

[Lou Girardin]

This is why there's no resources available to target boy racers and other assorted scum at night. While there are plenty available to hit the roads during the week when all the reps, school-run Mums and assorted other people who pay their fines on time are about.
Nope. It's not about revenue. Never ever.

[riffer]

Lou - you would laugh at the situation in Upper Hutt at present.

You see, there aren't enough police in UH to man the station at weekends, as they are all out on the road.

so call the local police station and you get a phone message telling you to either call Lower Hutt or the Staff Sergeant on his cellphone.

Seven houses (out of 30-odd) on our street got burgled a couple of weeks back. i don't need to tell you how many are still waiting for a response, do I?

[Str8 Jacket]

Just to clarify the courts and the police are two entirely seperate entities (sp?). A fine can only be imposed into court by the issuing authority (police, MAF, City Council etc etc) but once its in court it can only be withdrawn by the issuing authority... The police or any other issuing authority does not and cannot make the decision on how the fine is collected (or not) once its in the court system...

[Jonty]

Lou - you would laugh at the situation in Upper Hutt at present.

You see, there aren't enough police in UH to man the station at weekends, as they are all out on the road.

so call the local police station and you get a phone message telling you to either call Lower Hutt or the Staff Sergeant on his cellphone.

Seven houses (out of 30-odd) on our street got burgled a couple of weeks back. i don't need to tell you how many are still waiting for a response, do I?


Yep - one of the buggers got me on Sunday on the motorway heading into town. He said I quote "You were doing 122 back there changing lanes. I know that on a bike this is easy to do and you were doing things safely, however, I am still issing you an infingement notice. I am sorry about that I hope your day gets better"

Cheers mate I hope you have a nice day too ya bastard. And cheers for the toot and wave from about 3 bikes passing me:2thumbsup

[Lou Girardin]

I know that on a bike this is easy to do and you were doing things safely, however, I am still issing you an infingement notice. I am sorry about that I hope your day gets better"


Kinda leaves mixed feelings doesn't it. You hate the prick but he WAS polite.

[Jonty]

Kinda leaves mixed feelings doesn't it. You hate the prick but he WAS polite.

Yeah I know - he had definately been a highway cop for years with his uncanny ability to make you feel like he was a good guy despite the fact he was f**king you over. Still no complaints I broke the law and got caught, just wish he was a prick so I could have had a decent rant:mega:

[SPman]

..... However someone needs to do my job, if it wasnt me it'd be someone else.
...and if everyone refused to do it?

[Str8 Jacket]

...and if everyone refused to do it?

I shudder to think!...

[Sutage]

Yeah I know - he had definately been a highway cop for years with his uncanny ability to make you feel like he was a good guy despite the fact he was f**king you over. Still no complaints I broke the law and got caught, just wish he was a prick so I could have had a decent rant:mega:

your choice to stop;) then no rant neccessary e EHHEHEHeh

[avgas]

Mr Power said serial non-payers were appearing before the courts and judges had limited options to deal with them.

the fines were REMITTED, not waived. that is, they were (in the main) swapped for another sentence.

this is the main issue. it's not joe public who keeps themselves honest and pays the bills on time. if you want to rack up $20000 in fines, then be a total loser and go through all the hassles of community service, disqualified driving, general tosser behaviour (speaking of which - did you see that loser from chch complaining cause his skyline was being impounded for his $18000 of fines the other night?).

i doubt if your $170 speeding fine is going to be worth doing community service for

I dunno man, i used to work for $8/hr - thats a reasonable amount of hours i think the suckers should work to 'pay-off' the system.

[oldrider]

It's a sick joke. Helen's cup is full and running over! :eek:

Hear the pennies dropping listen to them fall
every one for Jesus (read Helen) she shall have them all!

Learned at Sunday school circa 1944. And the beat goes on, ya de da de duh! :weird: