Newbie Advice [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Skyryder

13th March 2006, 20:01

SwanTiger

13th March 2006, 20:10

Wow, I didn't even know my motorcycle had a horn, now I do, gee you learn something everyday! Thanks for that Skyryder.

DEATH_INC.

13th March 2006, 20:13

Don't see the need for a horn, if ya got time to use it you got plenty of time to avoid the situation......

Scorpygirl

13th March 2006, 20:15

Wow, I didn't even know my motorcycle had a horn, now I do, gee you learn something everyday! Thanks for that Skyryder.

Horn...... Let me think... :scratch: Something that Rhino has!!! :rofl: :spudbn: (P/T).

I know where it is on my bike thanks SkyRyder :msn-wink:

Skyryder

13th March 2006, 20:17

Wow, I didn't even know my motorcycle had a horn, now I do, gee you learn something everyday! Thanks for that Skyryder.

You need one for a warrent. Get a car change lanes out in front of you at the 'critical time..................:doctor: ??? or mortician, if you get my drift.

Skyryder

far queue

13th March 2006, 20:18

SwanTiger

13th March 2006, 20:21

The only time I use my horn is for social gestures, such as saying hello, good bye or acknowledging someone or something.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I like the "tight" horns, the ones where you can almost spell out profanities. My favorite is FUCK YOU CUNT, try it some time, you can get quite creative with that shit.

Psalm42

13th March 2006, 20:23

Yes the horn is good, I have even gone to some extremes to secure a good one for my road bike project. Yes it will have a bottle which looks like nos on it, but it is actualy compressed air running through a regulator and powering a set of Truck air horns mounted behind the fairing. I plan to kill via heart attack the cagey types whom fail to Respect My Authori tie...

But on a more important issue, Brakes, brakes brakes. Make sure you have well maintained and excellent brakeing system, from the rubber to the lever. The kind that will pull a stoppy on grass if possible.

Scorpygirl

13th March 2006, 20:24

I've never really bothered with the horn on any of my bikes. The horns I've had have all been pathetic pieces of shit and I've ususally been a bit busy avoiding whatever the incident is to worry about the horn anyway. Hitting the horn won't stop me hitting the dick in the cage. Much better to concentrate on avoidance then hurl the abuse and a good door kicking later - far more effective that a pathetic little beep beep.

I know some bikes have really good horns, but mine never have.

MMMMM - yeah the one on the Virago ain't that good and most cagers have cloth ears and the stereo up so loud they can't even hear a siren or the blast of a fire engine, ambo or cop in a hurry and get out of the way. Now how can a pathetic horn on a motorbike compete. Answers welcome!

SwanTiger

13th March 2006, 20:28

But on a more important issue, Brakes, brakes brakes. Make sure you have well maintained and excellent brakeing system, from the rubber to the lever. The kind that will pull a stoppy on grass if possible.

Sorry to splash this thread with my rhetorical bullshit, but that is true, I had a little intimacy with some gravel on the side of a road today. Only having the front brakes working made for an interesting stopping procedure (dropped into 1st quickly, killed engine and used clutch and gear as rear brake).

I was about 2 meters away from a cliff. Made me want to ride faster so if it happened again at least my last effort would be a fairly decent cliff jump.

Hyosungs can fly. I'll prove it one day.

Insanity_rules

13th March 2006, 20:28

I like the horn, I've got a really loud not wimpy sounding one!!!
Sometimes cagers need a wake up and remove brain from the glovebox jolt!

Also very entertaining, my mate had an airhorn on his XZ400. You should have seen the reaction.

DMNTD

13th March 2006, 20:34

...My advice would be to know where your HORN BUTTON is...

Ok sure but there's other things that are more important IMO when it comes to a freaky situation...like ummmmmm brakes :shit:
Naturally knowing how much of each,front and rear,brakes to apply in every road condition in all situations...obviously this comes with experience.
To me that would be the most valuable bit of knowledge to have when the shit goes down as it does...most times you ride.
The average bike horn is more of an embarrassment than anything else. Would rather put that split second into avoiding a crash than warning the other party that I'm about to crash into them :blip:

imdying

13th March 2006, 20:37

Only smoke dope before riding, the cops can smell piss a mile off and will breath test ya. Oh, and don't forget the clear eyes. And don't do a runner when on reserve. And know where parks are so you can get away. And look at the oncoming lane when filtering in the cycle lane. People often stop and let people come across them, which is also coming across little invisible you...

miSTa

13th March 2006, 20:41

Don't see the need for a horn, if ya got time to use it you got plenty of time to avoid the situation......

Gotta agree with that - avoidance is the best policy.

At the same time a horn can be quite a usefull tool for ensuring avoidance.

Skyryder

13th March 2006, 20:47

The average bike horn is more of an embarrassment than anything else. Would rather put that split second into avoiding a crash than warning the other party that I'm about to crash into them :blip:

Yes it is and I am of the opinion that it's lack of power directly relates to the importance that bikers place in it. I don't place the horn as the most important piece of equipment but I am of the opinion that knowing exactly where it is for 'instant' use is just as important as know exactly where the brakes are for instant use.

Evasive manourvres can be carried out with 'instant' use of the horn. Not too sure if this is taught in riding schools...........if not it should be.

Skyryder

Squeak the Rat

14th March 2006, 07:20

Totally agree with the horn, sometimes i get sick of having to avoid a doofus changing lane on the mway. I once used it to alert a mother that the baby in the pram she pushed into the road without looking could easily have been squashed.

My rather generic single piece of advice is to always ride in "what if" mode.

What if this car doesn't see me (we all should be thinking that!)
What if there is something around this corner blocking the road? (pot hole, stopped car, oil etc)
What if I run out of petrol. Stupid reserve switch.

Always have an out. If you don't have one then be prepared to accept the consequences if Mr Fate or Mrs Bad Luck start screwing on your doortstep.

Str8 Jacket

14th March 2006, 07:29

Air horns! They stop most dickheads (minus bus drivers) in their tracks. I reckon all bikes should have them!

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 07:43

far queue

14th March 2006, 08:01

Got to agree with TL Rider here, if you got time to hit the horn it wasn't a real emergency. In addition to that often enough a bike horn only confuses the hell out of the cager.

They are off in their own little world, not a worry or care in the world and all of a sudden their dreams are shattered by a strange noise from ... from... what??? where??? oh fuck, what did I just hit.
The reaction can be quite unpredictable, especially when they are executing a lane change and you are in/near a blind spot.
Much like when a sheep pops up at the side of a road, you never know what the bloody thing is going to decide to do, and its actions are often quite irrational. If you honk at it, you'll just startle it into doing exactly what you don't want. Cage drivers have the same mentality ... and the same IQ.

Finn

14th March 2006, 08:11

Been meaning to post this for some time but the slagging I copped on another thread has prompted this now rather than later.

Ok so you have one piece of advice to give to a new rider. Just one, not several.

What would that be.

My advice would be to know where your HORN BUTTON is.

THE HORN BUTTON Not something we use a lot and as such, I'd hazad a guess that few here can find it 'instantly,' yet when we need to use it, if you have to think where it is, it could be too late.

Skyryder

Just when I thought you couldn't say anything more stupid, here you go again.

How exactly could that have helped Momentum in his bin? Please explain at what point the horn would have saved him from over shooting the corner.

Any more bright ideas?

MSTRS

14th March 2006, 08:12

Air horns! They stop most dickheads (minus bus drivers) in their tracks. I reckon all bikes should have them!
Yep AIR HORNS!!! $35 from repco and easy to fit. What are you waiting for?? You know you want to 'Tootle melodiously'

Oakie

14th March 2006, 08:29

Did a defensive driving course about 25 years ago and one of the things I remember was not to put too much faith in the horn as an emergency device. If you do that you're asking the other person to take avoiding action rather than giving yourself another couple of seconds to do it yourself.

Best piece of advice I could give a noobie is "don't trust anyone else and don't assume they're all going to obey the road rules"

DMNTD

14th March 2006, 08:40

... but I am of the opinion that knowing exactly where it is for 'instant' use is just as important as know exactly where the brakes are for instant use.

Evasive manourvres can be carried out with 'instant' use of the horn.

:mellow: OK lets agreed to disagree on that one. Not interested in a slagging match cause my slag's better anyway

Another bit of advice/opinion for newbies is to learn to read the traffic/drivers/riders and also the road.
Although not a good idea to assume where/how someone will react it's handy to have an idea so you can be prepared. Obviously this comes with experience too.

Squeak the Rat

14th March 2006, 08:41

Just when I thought you couldn't say anything more stupid, here you go again.

How exactly could that have helped Momentum in his bin? Please explain at what point the horn would have saved him from over shooting the corner.

Any more bright ideas?

The guy is trying to offer some advice to new riders. Riders that maybe aren't experienced enough to be able to react in the same way as some one who has been riding for 6 years.

What you are saying to new riders is to never use your horn, because it won't save you if you run wide on a corner. And if a car looks like it might pull out in front of you, use your 2 weeks of riding experience to avoid it rather than alerting the driver to your presence.

I'd rather teach new riders multiple methods of keeping themselves alive, including using the horn, hazard identification, reading the road surface.....

Finn

14th March 2006, 08:48

The guy is trying to offer some advice to new riders.

Perhaps you should check out his other posts, then come back and appologise to me.

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 08:48

The guy is trying to offer some advice to new riders. Riders that maybe aren't experienced enough to be able to react in the same way as some one who has been riding for 6 years.

I'd rather teach new riders multiple methods of keeping themselves alive, including using the horn, hazard identification, reading the road surface.....

If we look at the first post it says

"Ok so you have one piece of advice to give to a new rider. Just one, not several"

Now really, would that be the ONE piece of advice you would give a new rider?

Can just see it now. New rider bowls up for the basic handling skills test, toots the horn and passes. Cool.

MSTRS

14th March 2006, 08:49

One of the best bits of advice I could give is to "Keep an open mind and be aware that if something could happen, it probably will, so be ready to react. Never lose concentration and eventually you will be able to compartmentalise and categorise the risk factors as they present. ie you will develop that biker 6th sense"

Ixion

14th March 2006, 08:52

Horn's no panacea. BUT -- using it doesn't slow down any other avoidance/emergency/defensive stuff. Cage ahead looks a bit dodgy? Maybe going to pull out? Assume he will. Cover the brake, throttle off, run through the bolt holes you can duck into, move to a safer position, BUT while you're doing all this, what's the problem with flicking out your thumb (its not needed elsewhere), and giving him a teeth rattling blast of melodious tootle. Dozy twit may not notice it or may ignore it. But sometimes it may be enough to jerk him into the real world.

And yes, sometimes a horn blast may startle Mabel (or Syd - it's hard to tell the difference) and make her do something incomprehensible. But they're as like as not to do that anyway. Surely no-one would say that dozy twits can safely be relied on to do the sensible thing if not tootled. They'll do stupid unpredictable shit anyway, tootled or untootled. And sometimes tootling may snap them out of wherever it is they go to.

Sure, don't *rely* on a horn. But don't discount it as another weapon in our armoury . Used , not instead of all the other things, but as well as. And make then BLOODY LOUD horns.

Squeak the Rat

14th March 2006, 09:02

If we look at the first post it says

"Ok so you have one piece of advice to give to a new rider. Just one, not several"

Now really, would that be the ONE piece of advice you would give a new rider?

Can just see it now. New rider bowls up for the basic handling skills test, toots the horn and passes. Cool.

Excellent argument, but read all the thread to answer your question.

Given your adherence to the original post, what's your ONE piece of advice you would give to a new rider?

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 09:06

But they're as like as not to do that anyway. Surely no-one would say that dozy twits can safely be relied on to do the sensible thing if not tootled. They'll do stupid unpredictable shit anyway, tootled or untootled. And sometimes tootling may snap them out of wherever it is they go to.

Most cagers first (and only) reaction to the unknown is to hit the brakes.

Cage is pulling out of a side road across your path of travel. It hasn't seen you, but it is not a real emergency cause you have time to think and say to yourself hit the horn. So you blast the bastard. Bang cager hits the brakes SMACK you go into the cage, day ruined.

OR

Cage is pulling out of a side road across your path of travel. It hasn't seen you, but it is not a real emergency cause you have time to think and say to yourself hit the horn. You show restraint and not blast it, totally oblivious the cager nearly wipes you out, but luckily you just slip around the rear whilst pulling the finger, you arive at work and regale your mates with the stupidity of cagers.

To say that the horn wont affect them is fallacy.

Now sure, do use the horn, and yes get air horns. But use them for fun. When you are perfectly safe. The cage just changed lanes on you, but you anticipated this and have an out and or are capable of stopping then let it rip and enjoy.

But as a knee jerk reaction to any given situation or a first line of defence forget it.

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 09:09

Get your arse to a BRONZ Ride Right Ride Safe riding course as soon as possible, like the this Sunday the 19th.

Str8 Jacket

14th March 2006, 09:11

But as a knee jerk reaction to any given situation or a first line of defence forget it.

For sure. When Im riding around town and see a cager that may pull out in front of me, at an intersection or car park or u-turns (the list goes on) I instinctively (sp?) rest my hand over the brake lever just so im ready to stop if I have to. The horn is more of an OI! but never a preventative measure for avoiding an accident. I always ride like someones out to get me, that way im aware of almost everything thats going on around me.

Ixion

14th March 2006, 09:16

Cage is equally as likely to hit the brakes without horn, when he belatedly does see you. You can't assume he'll keep moving just because you don't tootle him. In fact, your argument supports tootling him, because if it reliably makes him stop, that makes him more predictable. And of course , you are not *only* tootling - you are doing all else that is necessary.

And if you can avoid him without drama then you don't need horn or finger - just drive around him (front or back), or change lanes, or duck into that driveway - the small change of riding that we deal with every day.

The horn is also useful to confirm your presence. The cage has stopped at the give way. You are still a fair distance off, but travelling fast. He sees you , hesitates, you know exactly what is going through his mind - "Have I time to get out before that motorcycle". A good loud tootle will confirm his thinking "No - shit he's in a hurry - have to wait" . A horn blast will make people think you are moving faster - which is a good thing.

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 09:20

Another example of the effectiveness of a horn.

We are travelling up a twisty hill whilst doing the coro loop on Saturday.
There is a truck in front with roofing material on it, CaN2, then myself then bugjuice.

Me spies a lump of 4x4 dunnage slipping out of the strap on the truck and it is going to fall off right in CaN2's path of travel.

I sat on the horn and gradually slowed down. I had the horn on for about 10 seconds before the dunnage fell. Fortunately as it did so it fell to the road in about the left wheel track and she was in the right wheel track. Quite lucky really as it was on the RHS of the truck.

She hadn't seen the timber, was watching for an over take op. She looked back to see why I was in strife and making such a racket. Reality is she may have been looking forward and seen it if I wasn't tooting.

Ixion

14th March 2006, 09:30

And conversly - last week, going along, minding my own business, and woz all this - lottsa bits of wood (firewoody sorta wood) all ova road. Whaa. Carry on , avoiding wood ,round corner in front is car pulling trailer , loaded with , yep , firewood.And there's another bit falling off. Overtake car, tootle melodiously, cager jerks into consciousness, I point back to his trailer and down to the road, he pulls over and in the mirror I see him redistributing stuff. Without horn, he'd never have noticed me, or my signal.

(EDIT: Never much point tootling from behind though, they can't hear you)

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 09:35

In fact, your argument supports tootling him, because if it reliably makes him stop, that makes him more predictable.

So you are saying that reliably making him stop smack in front of you is preferable to maybe he/she stops in front of you?

How the hell do you figure that?

Presumably this is because you are better prepared for your death?

You would rather the accident was a sure thing, than a maybe, different stroke I guess.

pritch

14th March 2006, 09:42

Ok, so a horn might not be the first thing I would mention but it seems to be the topic du jour . I did think it important enough to throw the OE item away and fit a pair of FIAMMs early in the piece. These guys were good to deal with:

http://ridesafer.com/store/category/5wlf/Horns.html

The FIAMM Dual HF 90 horns are much louder than the stock but still sound like a motor bike, I'd really prefer to make a noise like a big rig.

Air horns, however, can take a lot of space although the Stebel Nautilus is apparently authoritatively loud and is at the same time compact. US riders are reporting good results and if I was replacing a horn today I'd have a look at these.

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 09:54

So let me get this straight.

The thead is entitled "Newbie Advice" and I am arguing about the ONE piece of advice you would give a new rider according to the first post.

I am not saying the horn should never be used. I am saying that it is not the most important thing. I am saying that it can produce unpredictable results.

My concern is that there is some dopy newbie out there reads some of the shit they see on KB and actually believes it.
I doubt there are many newbies that are sufficiently dopey as to think the horn is their saviour, even if that position is being extolled by some seemingly experienced riders.

In The Breeze

14th March 2006, 10:13

Best advice I can give a newbie is this: Rely on nothing but your wits :yes:

Ixion

14th March 2006, 10:33

So you are saying that reliably making him stop smack in front of you is preferable to maybe he/she stops in front of you?

How the hell do you figure that?

Presumably this is because you are better prepared for your death?

You would rather the accident was a sure thing, than a maybe, different stroke I guess.

Actually, on reflection, your arguement is proceeding from a wrong premise. Why on earth would you be tootling him AFTER he is front of you? Time is long gone for that, you need to tootle him BEFORE then, while he is still back wherever he came from. Horn is a WARNING signal, means "Hey, don't do what you are thinking of, I'm here"

And yes, I'd rather he reliably stopped where-ever, than unpredictably moved one way or other. Stopped, he's just a static obstacle. No different to a tree or rock. Off roaders navigate round those all the time - they'd have a much harder time if the rocks and trees were moving randomly about (might be fun though :lol: )

Why do you assume that having the cage reliably stop in front of you means certain accident/death ? He has stopped. So you have more choices. You can go behind him. You can go in front of him (cos he's stopped). You can stop (cos you *did * slow down, way back when you first noticed him, right? Prepared for the eventuality that he'd pop out in front of you. Or you can remove yourself to one of the safe palces you mapped out when you first noticed him.

Only reason you'd be hitting him is if you never saw him in the first place (either because you weren't watching or because he wasn't able to be seen- happens). And if you never saw him, you wouldn't tootle him either , right.

So tootling is a WARNING. To use to PREVENT people coming out in front of you. If they still do, you (riding defensively) slow down or stop , or do whatever else works.

Works for me, for 40 odd years.

FWIW, I wouldn't say that the horn is the NUMBER ONE thing for a newbie to know about. But I don't think that's what Mr Skyryder said. He said he'd give ONE tip - not necessarily the most important.

DMNTD

14th March 2006, 10:41

Best advice I can give a newbie is this: Rely on nothing but your wits :yes:

Green bling awarded :ride:

pritch

14th March 2006, 10:50

they'd have a much harder time if the rocks and trees were moving randomly about (might be fun though :lol: )

Be more fun as a spectator :-)

Zed

14th March 2006, 10:54

Been meaning to post this for some time but the slagging I copped on another thread has prompted this now rather than later.Firstly, you deserved every bit of slagging you received on that other thread! A fellow rider had an accident and you were totally unsympathetic and proceeded to make him feel terrible by telling him what he did was wrong!! :no:

Ok so you have one piece of advice to give to a new rider. Just one, not several.

What would that be.Easy, that would be to be very careful who's advice you take when it comes to motorcycling, because there are a lot of know-it-alls out there offering BAD advice! :confused:

buellbabe

14th March 2006, 11:01

My advice is to assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot and that they WILL do stoopid things when least expected... so... expect it!
RE: the Horn isssue? Well of course I know where my horn button is! And its blimmin loud! I travel the Southern Motorway everyday and use it as a "don't do it bucko" warning to those drivers that seem to be in a little world of their own!And a blast from my horn doesn't make the driver swerve erractically but it does make them aware that maybe they should be using their mirrors AND... heaven forbid.. perhaps check over their shoulder...:ride:

The Stranger

14th March 2006, 11:13

Actually, on reflection, your arguement is proceeding from a wrong premise. Why on earth would you be tootling him AFTER he is front of you? Time is long gone for that, you need to tootle him BEFORE then, while he is still back wherever he came from. Horn is a WARNING signal, means "Hey, don't do what you are thinking of, I'm here"
.

Personally I wait for someone to do something wrong before actually taking evasive action. So using the scenario of car about to pull out, as I am approaching I check that the driver is looking and try to make eye contact, I check the cars wheel to see if it moving or starts moving, which way is it pointed, if the car starts to move, what are the options. If anything looks amiss I will reduce speed and or cover the brake, thus reducing reaction time, and yes I may even cover the horn.

No wonder there are so many fucked up cagers around with you riding around tooting at them just in case they do something wrong. Interesting approach though, I supose it cuts down on his/her average 2 second reaction time, more than enough to get smak in fron of you from a standing start.

FWIW, I wouldn't say that the horn is the NUMBER ONE thing for a newbie to know about.

Well we are making progress aren't we? Cause shit that is what I have been saying too.

Flatcap

14th March 2006, 11:14

I find the most common use of the horn for me in my commute is to warn pedestrians who appear to be about to step out from between parked cars on my left, or between queued cars on my right. In each case they are usually looking the wrong way for traffic.

Another reason for having a loud bike, I would say

Skyryder

14th March 2006, 18:02

Firstly, you deserved every bit of slagging you received on that other thread! A fellow rider had an accident and you were totally unsympathetic and proceeded to make him feel terrible by telling him what he did was wrong!! :no:

Easy, that would be to be very careful who's advice you take when it comes to motorcycling, because there are a lot of know-it-alls out there offering BAD advice! :confused:

Well so what. I bet he knows what I said as against anything advice you offered...............on anything.

Skyryder

Skyryder

14th March 2006, 18:05

Skyryder

14th March 2006, 18:07

FWIW, I wouldn't say that the horn is the NUMBER ONE thing for a newbie to know about. But I don't think that's what Mr Skyryder said. He said he'd give ONE tip - not necessarily the most important.

Right on the button if you will excuse the pun.

Skyryder

Zed

14th March 2006, 18:08

Well so what. I bet he knows what I said as against anything advice you offered...............on anything.

SkyryderYou have absolutely no PR skills man...must be all those years of bus driving huh?! :wacko:

Skyryder

14th March 2006, 18:13

You have absolutely no PR skills man...must be all those years of bus driving huh?! :wacko:

But I do have self discipline. Neve red reped you ever and all my comments to you have been out in the open unlike yourself and some others.

Love and kisses as usual

Skyryder

SwanTiger

14th March 2006, 18:15

In every situation i have encounted which required evasive actions, the number one thing I did was ensuring I had a clear mind. Me and the Road, nothing else.

If in one instance I was thinking about what sexy dress I should wear for my date with Boomer, then I'd be fucked!

boomer

14th March 2006, 20:19

oi!!!! no....!!!! If i were to see you down the pub...i'd say

NO!!!!

and whats this "bike:boomer" business... why am i afraid :eek:

SwanTiger

14th March 2006, 20:26

Hahaha, I was wondering when I would get a few words from you about my chosen bike. I quite enjoy riding my booo wooo wooo mer.

I was going to call my bike Boomer, but I'm not sure anymore, I watched that 'Seabiscut' movie last night and that little retarded horse just had a heart to barbeque. Might have to name my little Suzuki A100 after him.

I saw your face when I turned up on my sexy Hyosung :gob:

I can give her a rim job in front of you, if you like. :blip:

:rofl: