Anyone care to comment/advise

[MSTRS]

My darling would like some help here. I think it may be to do with sub-liminal distractions ie the sub-conscious notices an offcamber and the eyes stop looking far enough ahead. But I don't know what it could be

Just wondering tho, if anyone can help out, I ride a series of corners and all is fine, nice and smooth etc etc and then I come up to another corner and i just freeze/lose all confidence and have to slow right down again. I have no idea why. It doesn't make any sense, (but then I probably don't either!) I have never had an off or a serious whoopsy moment on a corner, if anyone can shed some light, I'd be grateful.

[imdying]

Stop trying to go fast? More to life than being 'fast' on a bike :)

[Colapop]

This is not a 'speed' thing as such is it? It's more of a riding 'smoothly' thing?

[bugjuice]

clear your head. don't think about what you've just done or where you're going, just go..
worst thing for some is to think too much during a ride. I've done it before
I find trying to clear everything and just being there for the ride, makes a nicer ride

[Mental Trousers]

Happens to me too. For a while I'll get along quite happily and smoothly, but then I'll make a bit of a mistake which will give me a fright. After that, I'm no where near as smooth because I don't trust my judgement anymore cos I might make another mistake. However, if I'm riding like a mad bastard I brush it off and go hard, but if I'm being sensible it messes up my ride quite badly and I have to try and get my head straight again.

[MSTRS]

Moving at all is 'going fast' compared to standing still:rofl: Yungatart rides conservatively and seldom exceeds even the posted corner speeds. Her concern is definitely with achieving a nice, regular flow of riding style.

[imdying]

Sounds fair. Tell her to keep riding slower and slower. Eventually, she'll get to a speed where she can ride all day every day smooth as she likes :) Once shes been there, and is feeling real good about her riding, start creeping the speed back up.

[Ixion]

I struggle with this at times. And am also not a fast rider (those are miles per hour on the advisory signs, right? cos that's what my speedo is) .

I think it is due to trying to predict the road - looking ahead, subconsciously drawing a picture of where the roads going. Usually works well. But every so often something deceptive upsets it - what looked like the road continuing beyond that corner isnt, it's a driveway, the road goes the other way: that corner is much sharper than expected, whatever. Then the mind goes "WTF - where's the road gone - it should be *there* and it's not - I dunno what to do , gonna go on strike"

The way i overcome it is simply to recognise that I've been fooled , mutter "OK, you got me- now lets get on with it" and put it behind me. So, it goes left instead of right. OK, left we'll go - now, where's it go next.

Inherently, you mainly get this on roads you don't know really well (most roads, for me). Which is why sprotsbike riders don't encounter it, because they seldom ride unknown roads. They "know" the road - when you don't you have to try to guess, and sometimes the guess fools you.

Actively accepting that the road tricked you "releases" the mental bind and allows you to move on. Otherwise your mind grinds its gears trying to force the reality to conform with what the mond thinks it *ought* to be

[Lou Girardin]

It sounds like she loses the rythym during a sequence of bends. It happens to us all. My worst one was through the Gates of Haast when it was dirt. Luckily the third corner I stuffed up had the bank cut away so I went off-roading and straightlined the corner over boulders and all sorts of crap. Tough bikes those old XJ750's.

[Motu]

Use the rhythm method...you gotta have a flow from one piece of road to ther other,it's not about being fast,it's about being smooth.Like Ixion I am mostly on roads I don't know,they are unmarked and have tricky surprises around every corner.I am often wrong footed and having to make decisions mid corner...this is my preference,and I like to ride like that,but it's hard to make it look like I know what I'm doing....

[buellbabe]

Sounds like the sort of thing ya get on unknown roads... just chill and don't worry about it so much. I would suggest slowing down but apparently thats not the issue.. maybe a handling skills course would help boost the confidence. Theres other factors to consider tho...How long has she had the bike? How familar is she with how far she can push it?

[Keystone19]

Relax your legs Yungatart. I bet they are gripping the tank like a...

[MSTRS]

Thanks for the replies so far. I will point Yungatart at this thread after work & let her answer the questions and/or ask more.

[Grahameeboy]

Relax your legs Yungatart. I bet they are gripping the tank like a...

like a ??

Remember MotoGP riders have moments and lose confidence.

Riding a bike requires a lot of concentration and we all crap it at times. The main thing is that you did not bin it which shows that you are good enough a rider to deal with these situations so take that positive.:2thumbsup

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Relax and clear your head. Think of nothing but the road. Lift your head and just enjoy the day. I think you fear falling off and that is normal. But your bike will go around any of the corners at the speed you set them up at. You drop your eyes and you slow down. Just get in the grove and relax. Relax your hands and legs. All said here before.
Are you coming on the Elephant ride? I hope to take a group half an hour before the main group and we can get some good k's in and relax you. A long ride will be good cos you will have to relax and that is what you need. Speights_Bud said you had a good ride on the weekend. You did slow down at times but it was due to dropping your eyes. Look up and out to the end of the corner. You will get it.
Take the corners at the posted speed. You can go too slow and the bike will not flow. Get it flowing like a ????? ??? dancing.

[Blackbird]

One possibility is too short a focus on what is unfolding ahead. When I went for my advanced riding course 3 years ago, the instructor introduced me to the "12 second rule". What this means in practice is that you should be scanning ahead for a distance equivalent to what your current speed will take you in 12 seconds. This applies whether it's urban riding or open road. The instructor noticed that I was only scanning for 6-8 seconds on average. Scanning further ahead prepares you for more eventualities and better decisions.

The other possible improvement which could be made is use of the "vanishing point" on corners to make informed decisions about positioning and entry speed. I'm assuming that you know about this and won't expand on it here. I raised this with my wife with some trepidation as she was pretty hesitant on blind corners in her MX5. She cottoned on really well and is very smooth through corners now. Interestingly, I did a straw poll among the car drivers in our office a while back about corner vanishing points and not one of them knew what I was talking about!

Hope that these items might help, but best wishes for a speedy solution.

Cheers

Geoff

[Charlie]

Wheres your head at on your bad corners?

I find the same thing happens to me sometimes, and the one thing I notice is that just about everytime I nail a great corner my head and eyes are focused on the vanishing point. Body leans and throttle opens up as the road ahead does. Peripheral vision takes care of the road immediately in front.
1st thing I learnt in cornering is stear with your head! And it works!

Now when I have an oopsie corner - I notice EVERY time, something on the road in front has distracted me. A potential hazard perhaps. Now my head and eyes are focused on the road directly 2-5m in front of me. Very hard to corner smoothly and counter steering is all stuffed up etc etc when your NOT leading with your head.

Just something to maybe consider Yungatart.

[EDIT] Darn.. Blackbird read my mind!

[GIXser]

Track days are always good , you go at your own pace, with no real interference" did wonders for me--

[Gixxer 4 ever]

One possibility is too short a focus on what is unfolding ahead. When I went for my advanced riding course 3 years ago, the instructor introduced me to the "12 second rule". What this means in practice is that you should be scanning ahead for a distance equivalent to what your current speed will take you in 12 seconds.
Geoff

This is good but, be careful you don't focus on points ahead cos they go by quickly. Look a long way ahead. Your peripheral (sp) vision will pick up hazards on the road side at a slower speed.
You need to be very active at high speed. Your eyes work as hard as the body when you get to the fast hard riding.

[Blackbird]

This is good but, be careful you don't focus on points ahead cos they go by quickly. Look a long way ahead. Your peripheral (sp) vision will pick up hazards on the road side at a slower speed.
You need to be very active at high speed. Your eyes work as hard as the body when you get to the fast hard riding.


Totally agree with your comment on object fixation, you should be constantly scanning and not fixing. That's what's so good about the 12 second rule. That means that at 100km/hr, you should be looking at least 336 metres ahead and around, and if your "clear ahead" vision is less than that, scan closer for potential hazards and/or use the vanishing point if it's a bend obscuring forward vision.

[yungatart]

Thanks guys/girls for all your replies. I still don't really know what causes it, but will ponder on what has been posted. I know it is not due to riding fast, or gripping the tank too tight so I'm guessing it is a case of not looking far enough ahead. However, I am getting it right more than I was so its not all bad aye? More riding will definitely fix it_ now I just have to finish this bloody course, so i can have some riding time instead of having to do those stooopid bloody assignments...
Will keep you posted...

[enigma51]

She needs to follow someone that she will feel confident to follow and that person just needs to "flow" at the pace she feels confartable with.

this might sound crazy but boomer had ride behind very competent mutal friend of ours and he improved alot he use to be very nervous. He has his moments (The hoon in him is strong) but he tends to "flow" with the roade and he does not seem so nervous anymore and when the pace picks up he tend to keep up and when we get to our destination and ask him about it he says he was not pushing it and was feeling comfortable.

[boomer]

Indeed Enigma; i feel like i've come on leaps and bounds and its all thanks to you and Murray.

not 6 months ago we went for a ride and they both told me at a rest stop.. "go your own pace don't try and keep up". I met them after the next set of twisties probably 5-10minutes after they had got there. Now...constant rides out with you guys means i can keep up and on occassion even try and set the pace. I've learnt a lot from following and learning. A real confident booster. ps.. we're all slow pokes :lol:

i'm still learning and have me moments but hey... all good fun!

[stify]

Track days are always good , you go at your own pace, with no real interference" did wonders for me--

gota go with ya there, very cheap investment

[JohnR]

Gixxer and Blackbird are right. The theory of the 12 second rule is that you scan the road out to the 12 second distance, scan back then check your mirrors. This is a constant process and should involve the whole width of the road. This is a major component of teaching emergency vehicle driving (I am involved in ambulance driver training). Once it becomes second nature you will wonder how you managed to ride/drive without doing it! Practice, practice, practice. (Good excuse for lots of riding!):niceone:

[sugilite]

hmmm, it sounds like you "may" be coming through a series of corners with good visability and coming into a blind one, which could on a semi sub concious level be giving ya the heebie geebies.

Lots of good points been made already, relax, don't be to hard on ya self and practise heaps, look ahead without focusing on any one thing for too long.

I'm not sold 100% on the idea that you would have to slow it down, as I've found the optimum line for safety and flow often needs a certain speed to be attained in order to hold that line smoothly. If ya get what I mean lol

[Motu]

I don't know anything about the 12 second rule,I started doing this stuff before anyone developed theories about it.As soon as I exit a corner I look straight to the horizon and then scan back to where I am now,this can be a few metres,or a few kilometres,but I constantly scan this area to know where the road might go and what other obsticals like other vehicles etc I might meet.At times I also scan back with my mirrors and look to the sides...not just taking in the scenery,but as much info as I can.

[jonbuoy]

Inherently, you mainly get this on roads you don't know really well (most roads, for me). Which is why sprotsbike riders don't encounter it, because they seldom ride unknown roads. They "know" the road - when you don't you have to try to guess, and sometimes the guess fools you.


So how do we get to know new roads if we never travel on them?? Yes I have my favorites but I still enjoy finding new roads that become my new favorites.

Maybe shes getting tense - if your physically tense you cant ride well. If I get tense I try to focus on tightening my stomach muscles only. I sometimes get like that riding on a damp wet days, especially if I've had a little slide or something. Best to stop, have a break to chill, then carry on.

[pritch]

The original question didn't mention whether the problem occurred on particular corners. I have a couple of bogey corners, off camber and bumpy with it, and I use one of them every day. The normal cure involves walking around the corner and picking the best line. Bit of a problem on a busy intersection...

Saw a guy drop a Blackbird on one of them once and that has effected how I approach it.

Time may cure all...

[Mental Trousers]

Track days are always good , you go at your own pace, with no real interference" did wonders for me--
gota go with ya there, very cheap investment

Yup. Everyone should do track days. After a track day the road feels dangerous cos it's full of cars/animals/idiots/more idiots/every idiot and his dog/etc. Despite what mothers (like mine) think, the track is a much safer environment to learn. It also helps you figure out whats going on in your head when you're losing concentration, as I found down at Manfield.

[MSTRS]

I agree that TrackDays are a must. BUT......like a lot of women, Yungatart is nervous of being a slowpoke and holding others up. The track is a big scary bogey (in your head) until one has actually been on it, so I understand where she is coming from. She is a better rider than she gives herself credit for and once I get her on the track, she will make a quantum leap in confidence. In the meantime, every ride we do helps as do your comments and advice. Cheers all.

[JohnR]

I don't know anything about the 12 second rule,I started doing this stuff before anyone developed theories about it.As soon as I exit a corner I look straight to the horizon and then scan back to where I am now,this can be a few metres,or a few kilometres,but I constantly scan this area to know where the road might go and what other obsticals like other vehicles etc I might meet.At times I also scan back with my mirrors and look to the sides...not just taking in the scenery,but as much info as I can.

That's the point.:spudwave: There are probably a lot of things that you/we do that are instinctive, enabling us to ride as we do.:ride: In this case (12 second rule) somebody realised that not everyone did it, hence the theory.

[Colapop]

Get her to talk to Str8 Jacket about trackdays, I understand she was nervous about it but had an absolute blast (airhorns and all). She was, slow compared to some, but that didn't stop her.

I understand if at any stage anyone doesn't feel comfortable they can pull off to the side and the truck will come and pick 'em up? So there's no pressure. (get her up to Taupoo)

[Ixion]

That's the point.:spudwave: There are probably a lot of things that you/we do that are instinctive, enabling us to ride as we do.:ride: In this case (12 second rule) somebody realised that not everyone did it, hence the theory.


I never got the 12 second bit. I look as far ahead as I can see both down the road and out to the sides - looking for hazards, and trying to figure out where the road goes - looking for power poles, tree lines, buildings, tail/brake lights, anything that gives some advance notice of which way the road's going to head. But I dion't know how far ahead 12 seconds is, especially on windy stuff. So I suppose i'm doing it, but I think trying to work out "Um is that 12 seconds aahead? Or 15 ? - allowing for what looks like maybe a bend in between - but it might be two bends ? Um , if it's two that next hill is probably 20 seconds , but theres a river down there , so maybe a bridge coming up, how many seconds does that add ? - oh shit I just crashed, worrying about how many secnds things were away" is a waste of time.

[JohnR]

I never got the 12 second bit. I look as far ahead as I can see both down the road and out to the sides - looking for hazards, and trying to figure out where the road goes - looking for power poles, tree lines, buildings, tail/brake lights, anything that gives some advance notice of which way the road's going to head. But I dion't know how far ahead 12 seconds is, especially on windy stuff. So I suppose i'm doing it, but I think trying to work out "Um is that 12 seconds aahead? Or 15 ? - allowing for what looks like maybe a bend in between - but it might be two bends ? Um , if it's two that next hill is probably 20 seconds , but theres a river down there , so maybe a bridge coming up, how many seconds does that add ? - oh shit I just crashed, worrying about how many secnds things were away" is a waste of time.

OK. You win.:slap: :thud: From now on it shall be "the as far ahead as you can see without running over the dog, cat, cage, elderly pedestrian or police officer that has appeared 5 metres in front of you" rule.:brick:

[Ixion]

Why not just the "Look ahead as far as you can " rule. And at 100kph 12 seconds would only be about 300 metres. So I reckon you need a 24 seconds and 36 second and 48 second rule too. Simpler rule , "If you can see it , watch out for it. If you can't see it, assume it's there and dangerous". Even covers bath tubs around corners. I reckon there's to much trying to make "rules" about driving and riding nowdays , instead of applying common sense. Asians are bad at that they're so busy figuring out which rules to apply that they run into you.

[JohnR]

Why not just the "Look ahead as far as you can " rule. And at 100kph 12 seconds would only be about 300 metres. So I reckon you need a 24 seconds and 36 second and 48 second rule too. Simpler rule , "If you can see it , watch out for it. If you can't see it, assume it's there and dangerous". Even covers bath tubs around corners. I reckon there's to much trying to make "rules" about driving and riding nowdays , instead of applying common sense. Asians are bad at that they're so busy figuring out which rules to apply that they run into you.

Because... oh never mind.:mellow:

[Blackbird]

Why not just the "Look ahead as far as you can " rule. And at 100kph 12 seconds would only be about 300 metres. So I reckon you need a 24 seconds and 36 second and 48 second rule too. Simpler rule , "If you can see it , watch out for it. If you can't see it, assume it's there and dangerous". Even covers bath tubs around corners. I reckon there's to much trying to make "rules" about driving and riding nowdays , instead of applying common sense. Asians are bad at that they're so busy figuring out which rules to apply that they run into you.


Sigh......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You wouldn't work in IT would you Les??:rofl: :rofl:

[yungatart]

Okay everyone, thanks for your help. What I am going to do is not think too much about my riding, relax more and look further ahead and just keep riding...eveytime I go out I get better, more confident, more relaxed and smoother, so if I keep on riding I will get to the stage where I won't feel like such a Nana...right?
More practice....

[Ixion]

.. so if I keep on riding I will get to the stage where I won't feel like such a Nana...right?
More practice....

Woz wrong wiv being a Nana? Doesn't hurt , anyrate.

[yungatart]

Nothing wrong with being a Nana, Ixion. I am one, to four darling little rugrats- however it doesn't mean I want to ride like one or look like one either, for that matter. But, as at this point in time, I do ride like one, it is nice to know I am in such good company!

[Motu]

Looking ahead and reading the road is good stuff...but we can still get caught out eh? Who hasn't been reading the power poles and see them go in a straight line,and you can also see the road 500mts ahead....then found a U bend to rival the waste pipe under your sink!?

One evening going on dusk/getting kinda dark on a gravel road...I had been following the road on the edge of an old stream bed or shore line,it was pretty obvious where the road was going,even in the dark,then I came across a one lane bridge.''Oh choice!'' thinks me,I like to get a bit of air time over the bridges....but in the back of my mind I know that Murphy puts right angle turns on the other side of these bridges.So I hit it kinda a bit quick,but not too,too fast - and sure enough there was a 90 deg turn after the bridge! I got around ok...just another wake up call.

You just have to leave that little bit of room for these things.

[Gixxer 4 ever]

Because... oh never mind.:mellow:
:spudwave: Welcome to KB. You will do a lot of this :brick: here. All part of belonging :calm:

[JohnR]

:spudwave: Welcome to KB. You will do a lot of this :brick: here. All part of belonging :calm:

Thanks Gixxer. :2thumbsup I'm sure I'll get the hang of it.:scratch: