Battery, Voltage and Jump Starting.

[Devil]

Hey people, looking for advice/opinions/knowledge on the following.
Am a biker newbie here. Just got the first bike a few days ago.

1) Bike Battery: Do bikes run on a standard 12V system? or are they something stupid like 6V? (silly little batteries!)

2) Following on from the above question. Jump starting from a car (assuming standard 12V setup). Any issues here? Do you guys have any recommendations?

3) Now a general question related to the above. What should be the proper procedure when jump starting from a car? What shoudl you connect first, then what order etc? Any tips? Ive done it a couple of times car -> car but not with a bike.

T.I.A.
:scooter:

[Rocket]

Just cause its not nzgames.com dont think yopu can be lazy.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2401&highlight=jump+start

[Devil]

Just cause its not nzgames.com dont think yopu can be lazy.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=2401&highlight=jump+start
*cough*
Sorry ;) my bad :buggerd:

[Devil]

Gah, even in there people seem to have opposing ideas :/
Neg first on both, then positive on donor, then positive on dead vehicle?
:confused2

[vifferman]

The main things are: Make sure the bike and car aren't touching, and don't run the car engine when using jumper cables. Which cable you connect first isn't that relevant.

[Grumpy]

Having a nosey through a Kawasaki bike manual recently, one interesting thing I noticed was the jump start procedure.

It said to connect positive on jump battery to positive on bike then negative on jump battery to footpeg!

Never heard of this before. Not sure if this is a common practice for all bikes or for this particular model.

[Wenier]

easiest way is the postive to positive terminal and negative to the brake or gear shifter on metal of course. and yes 12v and yes car do good :)

[What?]

Having a nosey through a Kawasaki bike manual recently, one interesting thing I noticed was the jump start procedure.

It said to connect positive on jump battery to positive on bike then negative on jump battery to footpeg!

Never heard of this before. Not sure if this is a common practice for all bikes or for this particular model.
This is common advice. The reason for making the connections in this order is that the final one may do some arcing, so the trick is to have a good earth away from things like fuel tanks and batteries. I always hook the neg lead onto the sidestand. Connecting negatives first may mean sparks flying where there be fuel...

[Yamahamaman]

Just buy a new battery. You are going to have to eventually.

[Lou Girardin]

Don't jump start injected bikes unless your cables have spike protection.
ECU's are expensive.
Lou

[Devil]

Thanks people. this is getting more informative!

Interesting to hear about connecting the neg to part of the frame. Makes sense now after watching my friend wire up the sub in my car. Theres only a connection to the positive terminal for power! The neg is dealt with by a wire to the chassis.

[Slim]

This is common advice. The reason for making the connections in this order is that the final one may do some arcing, so the trick is to have a good earth away from things like fuel tanks and batteries. I always hook the neg lead onto the sidestand. Connecting negatives first may mean sparks flying where there be fuel...
None of the connections will do any arcing if both vehicles are turned off before you start connecting jump cables!!!! :shit:

If you're still worried about arcing, make the last connection to the donor battery.

[Lou Girardin]

None of the connections will do any arcing if both vehicles are turned off before you start connecting jump cables!!!! :shit:

If you're still worried about arcing, make the last connection to the donor battery.

They will Slim, seen it dozens of times.
Lou

[Posh Tourer :P]

Hey people, looking for advice/opinions/knowledge on the following.
Am a biker newbie here. Just got the first bike a few days ago.

1) Bike Battery: Do bikes run on a standard 12V system? or are they something stupid like 6V? (silly little batteries!)
T.I.A.
:scooter:

The CB125 has a 6V system, as do some older bikes, and scooters. Most bikes are 12V. However, :Offtopic: TS had any number of issues with a 12V battery only putting out 6V :doh: Replaced the battery and his rev counter, lights etc etc worked again

[MacD]

This is common advice. The reason for making the connections in this order is that the final one may do some arcing, so the trick is to have a good earth away from things like fuel tanks and batteries. I always hook the neg lead onto the sidestand. Connecting negatives first may mean sparks flying where there be fuel...

Also a charging battery produces hydrogen gas, which could ignite when you disconnect the cable from the battery terminal and produce a spark. So the general rule is to make and break the connection at an earth point remote from the battery and carb(s).

I saw a guy quite recently who had been hit in the face and eye by bits of exploding battery case...it wasn't a pretty sight!

:sick:

[What?]

Yep - seen a few ugly efforts myself. BTW, I wasn't just referring to petrol when I wrote "fuel". Hydrogen + Oxygen + ignition = bang! Anyone doubt it, go ask NASA.

Sorry Slim, I must disagree with everything you put in the above post. As a good battery will have far more available grunt than the vehicle's charging system, it can not possibly make any difference whether or not the engine is running. The advice from Kawasaki is very sound.

Mind you, there are some other very good reasons why the donor vehicle should not have it's engine running...

[MacD]

[QUOTE=What?]Yep - seen a few ugly efforts myself. BTW, I wasn't just referring to petrol when I wrote "fuel". Hydrogen + Oxygen + ignition = bang! Anyone doubt it, go ask NASA.
[QUOTE]

Heh, I used to play around with using electrolysis to produce hydrogen and oxygen when I was younger and even more stupid. Not being satisfied with producing 2 volumes of hydrogen in one bottle to 1 volume of oxygen in another, you can guess what I did next! And yes, the two carbon electrodes I was using (out of old D-cells) did touch and spark! Instant rocket! How I didn't lose an eye I don't know to this day...I didn't try that again!

:stupid:

However the local chemist did ring up my friend's mother one day to warn her that we were trying to buy potassium nitrite? to make gunpowder.

:D

Kids, don't try this at home OK!

[Slim]

Sorry Slim, I must disagree with everything you put in the above post. As a good battery will have far more available grunt than the vehicle's charging system, it can not possibly make any difference whether or not the engine is running.
Fair enough, but I didn't suggest you turn the engine over, but have the ignition off. I mean it's pretty standard electrical advice around the home to pull the fuse at the box before you play with wiring or to unplug a toaster from the wall before sticking a knife in it to fish out your burnt toast.

And I thought the suggestion to make the last connection to the donor battery was fairly sensible. :confused:

[krisby]

why use a car? I had a ZZR600 that turned out to have blown a head gasket and the valves and pistons were all rooted, but I had to bump start it probably 20 times before I got it fixed. I got pretty good in the end, and pushing a 200kg bike ain't easy, but it isn't that hard either. In fact a kwakker dealer I asked to look over it and give a me a price could not start it with 2 people pushing, so they were amazed when I did it first pop on their short drive way.

But then, my problem was not battery problems, but if it was, the seat was bolted down so access to the battery was a faff, and I would choose bump starting anyway.

I hate jump starting, never trust myself, especially with newer cars, you have to be careful not to fry the computers, so when a legacy GT I was testing recently would not start in my garage, instead of jumping from my Diamante I pushed the car to the top of my driveway, got in, one little push to get it rolling backwards, then bumped it into life in reverse.

Ah well, each to their own.

[pete376403]

Bump starting a fuel injected bike? Spinning the engine hard enough to generate enough voltage to get the computer up and the fuel pump running is going to take the mother of all pushes. Maybe down Ngauranga Gorge, have it in fifth and drop the clutch just as you go under the rail bridge. Maybe.

[What?]

...it's pretty standard electrical advice around the home to pull the fuse at the box before you play with wiring ...
Really? Now someone tells me!! :gob:

And I thought the suggestion to make the last connection to the donor battery was fairly sensible. :confused:
Yeah, it does seem reasonable. But please, not when the donor battery is attached to another vehicle.

[What?]

[QUOTE=MacD...we were trying to buy potassium nitrite? to make gunpowder...[/QUOTE]
MAAaaate! Didja ever try making nitroglycerine? That was real boys fun!!!!

[krisby]

Bump starting a fuel injected bike? Spinning the engine hard enough to generate enough voltage to get the computer up and the fuel pump running is going to take the mother of all pushes. Maybe down Ngauranga Gorge, have it in fifth and drop the clutch just as you go under the rail bridge. Maybe.

good point, never bumped a FI bike.is it really that hard though? if I can start a bike with low compression surely even with computer and stuff its not that hard is it? and why fifth? you would want 1st to create more RPM, in 5th the gearing would be too high to turn over the engine fast enough.

[DEATH_INC.]

good point, never bumped a FI bike.is it really that hard though? if I can start a bike with low compression surely even with computer and stuff its not that hard is it? and why fifth? you would want 1st to create more RPM, in 5th the gearing would be too high to turn over the engine fast enough.
On yer bike,everything runs from the battery;the alternator charges it.The ecu uses various variable-voltage signals to calculate the fuel maps,if the battery voltage is off it won't get the right signals,therefore won't inject fuel....
Another thing to be wary of is that some of the voltage regulators won't funtion properly without enough voltage in the system,so if your battery is really flat it pays to leave it running with the jump battery hooked up for a while,till you get a bit stored up in the bikes one.You may melt regulators ect if you don't.....

[pete376403]

good point, never bumped a FI bike.is it really that hard though? if I can start a bike with low compression surely even with computer and stuff its not that hard is it? and why fifth? you would want 1st to create more RPM, in 5th the gearing would be too high to turn over the engine fast enough.
Using a low gear will make the back wheel lock up. There's probably a tech explaination why but believe me it will. The higher gear overcomes this.
(Having had speedway bikes, one thing I am good at is bump starting, or even flicking the back wheel by hand with the bike on the stand.) When the bike was geared high for big tracks it was always easier.

[krisby]

Using a low gear will make the back wheel lock up. There's probably a tech explaination why but believe me it will. The higher gear overcomes this.
(Having had speedway bikes, one thing I am good at is bump starting, or even flicking the back wheel by hand with the bike on the stand.) When the bike was geared high for big tracks it was always easier.
i never had a problem with my ZZR600, always started it in 1st gear, if it was wet the wheel would just slide, but in the dry it would dig in, turn the engine over and fire up, so I guess we differ on our opinions and experiences on that one.

Actually, come to think of it, maybe I used 2nd gear...:confused: