I have a vision*

[Big Dave]

Utopia.
I looked it up just to make sure i have the right definition. yeah, I know, Wikipedia ain't 'definitive' - but for the sake of this exercise:
--------------------

Utopian, in its most common and general positive meaning, refers to the human efforts to create a better, or perhaps perfect society. Ideas which could/are considered able to radically change our world are often called utopian ideas.

"Utopian" in a negative meaning is used to discredit ideas as too advanced, too optimistic or unrealistic, impossible to realize. Hence, for example, the use by Marxists, of such expressions as "utopian socialism".

---------------------

After 1 BRONZ meeting and half a dozen emails I now put forward my highly qualified, enlightened take.

What I observed last night at AKL BRONZ was half a dozen enthusiastic and diligent souls doing some good work in the rider training and charity fields and have achieved some 'statutory' results too, but pretty much, a few swimming against the tide.

My utopian vision is of a 'motorcycle lobby' with a self funding professional advocate lobbying the govt and making appropriate submissions on behalf of motorcyclists on matters like traffic laws, road construction, loose seal killing us, cell phone safety, etc etc etc. under whatever is the most appropriate banner - BRONZ has my vote so far.

Writing and researching these submissions would be a part time gig because the other half would be spent chasing the funding and grants that ACC, LTNZ etc put out - to pay for it all.

Just like I bet the AA, Fulton Hogan, Dept of Works ACC and all the other interested parties have.
For all I know there may already be someone doing it?

The reality
Is a small contingent of under resourced enthusiasts lurching between submission deadlines and commendably picking up what they can. Their efforts are above reproach - the fact that there is so few of them is not.

I'm going to help 'em out with a bit of PR and design work. I knows some folks that knows some folks....and see if I can get it supported/tabled at the Importers Association and the halls of the Industry.

I also have this foggy idea of identifying the process of how Land Transit makes laws and what consultative process are in place - and how motorcyclists can best voice their needs and concerns - as some sort of feature in Kiwi Rider. (The WIIFM)

Unfortunately sussing out how LTNZ makes laws seems to be even foggier.

Fortunately since I penned the first part of this note the response to those emails has been a bit staggering. Some influential people have stepped up. Watch this space.

In the meantime Support BRONZ - I joined last night - They do some good shit.

Some of you senior KB members - step over here please - if we all do a little bit we might make a difference.

Take it forward suggestions welcome.

Bernstein.


(Elmer)

*and slight stigmatism from staring at phosphor screens.

[Finn]

So did Martin Luther King and look were it got him.

But seriously, good job. I might tag along to the next meeting.

[bugjuice]

bugger, forgot that was on..

I think we should do everything possible to get someone (at least) in an important spot in the government gaff, who will listen to Kiwi bikers (no, not just us) and be seen to be doing an active role, not just someone with a title and business card.


Anything I can do (and I'm sure many others will agree) to get this person(s) stated and elected, just say what, and we'll do it.

The sooner it's done, the sooner we get a decent voice on the roads for us.

[Lou Girardin]

The LTNZ drafts policy for Govt minions to translate into legalese. Which then goes through Parliamentary process. (Select committees etc.)
Or they use discretionary powers of "the Director" to make/change regulations on their own initiative. eg. varying speed limits.

[Ixion]

Do BRONZ have the balls though ? I have to admit this is a somewhat unfair aspersion, because , although I am a member, I haven't managed to get to any meetings - not for want of trying , but Wednesdays are never a good day for me and somehow their Wednesday ahs always conflicted with other stuff. I will try. But my perception is of a bunch of people shuffling timidly forward , with a "um , ah , excuse me, um , see we're motorcylists , and um ,ah , - oh , right , OK then , I'll just have another latte then".

I have some experience at dealing with quangos and governmental tomnoddies , and whilst outright agression does not work, a certain assertiveness (coupled with an ability to stir shit if iognored) , is.

They do excellent work with the RideSafe stuff - but are they up for more than respectful submissions?

I'm very happy (nay, desireous) of being told I've got the wrong end of the stick.

BTW, don't know if you know it, but a number of the original founder members of BRONZ, back when it decidedly DID have balls, are members of KB. They got shafted and screwed over a few years ago, and gave up in disgust. But if it's action that's wanted they know whereof they might speak, and might be willing to share experience and tips.

[enigma51]

How do one sign up?

[trev]

I'm very happy (nay, desireous) of being told I've got the wrong end of the stick.

You have.
I went along to the meeting too and Dave and I extended their meeting for some considerable time throwing our ideas at them. They had tried every one ( plus more we hadn't thought of ) and gave detailed reports of their approach & the results they got. Believe me these guys have tried & are trying everything.
They freely admitted that just because something didn't work in the past that doesn't mean it won't work now but it needs some fresh members with new enthusiasm to make it happen.
THEY ALSO NEED SOME SUPPORT FROM THE INDUSTRY - BIKE DEALERS etc. which they are not getting. It makes you wonder whether bike dealers have the long term interest ( safety ) of their clients at heart.
Did I join ??? - no not yet. I have taken on a racing committment which takes up much of my spare time but I will become an active member later.

[texmo]

How do one sign up?
And when is the next one?

[Big Dave]

And when is the next one?

Nice one guys.
Next is a month from last night.
Details are on the KB events calendar. keep an eye on that.

Ixion - double dare you to come to the next one - or I'm buying you an apron.
Now print this off and show it to your missus.:wari:

[Ixion]

Tis not the missus is the problem on Wednesday's . If I can I'll come.

[Big Dave]

How do one sign up?


good question - mine was spur of the moment at the meeting.
web site?

[Big Dave]

Tis not the missus is the problem on Wednesday's . If I can I'll come.

i know i was just wraggin'. - timidly shuffling forward as I do :gob:

chaaaaarrrrrrrrgge!

[Ixion]

Here. print form, fill in , post with money.
http://www.bronz.org.nz/Membership/member_application.htm

[Ixion]

Their website is probably a good indicator



Short Cut to latest postings by date:

Annual General Meeting for National Committee
General Meeting for National Committee

Presidents Report September 2004
New Submissions to LTSA and ACC

BRONZ Auckland Minutes August 2004

Presidents Report August :2004
Rain” is a four—letter Word by Robert Vaughan


Cold Kiwi details
Get ready for that Cold Kiwi ride
Now get the Gloves

Auckland May meeting Minutes
Presidents June Report
Tyre Tales
Bikers Words


latest news is 2004.

[stify]

not knowing much about alot stuff, how big is bronz as in member numbers?

[Big Dave]

Their website is probably a good indicator



latest news is 2004.


An indicator of the lack of resources.

Here we go - lets do summat boot it.

what about one of the you young blokes who are building their web skills at the moment?


WANTED:

Want a unique work experience opportunity? Showcase and advertise your www skills in a worthwhile project - collaborative solutions welcome.

The job entails liasing with the org. secretary - obtaining and translating word documents to html and presenting them in an eye catching design.

Give the site a freshen up:
http://bronz.org.nz/

I can probably find some nice motorcycle kit as payment and will help with direction.


should this go in a new thread?


shuffle shuffle ;-)

[Big Dave]

not knowing much about alot stuff, how big is bronz as in member numbers?

A few hundred nationally.

From what ixion says it appears to be a cyclic thing. burns bright then fades.

perhaps one of these days someone will step up and bang the drum loud enough that it gets it's own momentum and becomes a bit like the aussie model.
now might not be the cycle - I got some issues. I'll have a bash. I'm probably in a unique position being tight with all 4 bike mags and media too.

For the record - I'm not losing sleep - but I want something done about the loose gravel shite on our (I pay me taxes) roads and hands free phones in cars.

And Utopia.

[stify]

well good on big dave for havin a crack,got my support, as the motorcycle is a daily thing for me i gota few issues as well, will keep the next meetin day free an check it out....not so much for utopia, but me skin an bones

[terbang]

Yup Big Dave I agree count me in.

[SwanTiger]

An indicator of the lack of resources.

Here we go - lets do summat boot it.

what about one of the you young blokes who are building their web skills at the moment?


WANTED:

Want a unique work experience opportunity? Showcase and advertise your www skills in a worthwhile project - collaborative solutions welcome.

The job entails liasing with the org. secretary - obtaining and translating word documents to html and presenting them in an eye catching design.

Give the site a freshen up:
http://bronz.org.nz/

I can probably find some nice motorcycle kit as payment and will help with direction.


should this go in a new thread?


shuffle shuffle ;-)

I was actually considering offerring my expertise to them, however I wanted to get along to the meeting on Wednesday and gauge the enthusiasm and future of BRONZ and its members.

For free membership I will be willing to help out with the website as well as anything else computer related.

BD, I'll PM you.

[Lou Girardin]

I'll have to try and get to the next meeting, but one thing occurred to me. They need better communication to the public at large about biking issues. To do that they need a name change. Bikers Rights of NZ (Bronz) has far too many negative connotations. Bikers should be Motorcyclists, Rights sounds militant, there should be a reference to Safety instead and the acronym BRONZ just sounds like Bro's.
It's all a turn-off to non-bikers.

[DemonWolf]

I agree with Lou.. though I have no solution for a new name. BRONZ and the insignia used on the website appears to be 'gang' related... and thats not an image you want to portray to government or the public (IMHO).

I like where you are going with this so far Big Dave.. count me in (though I doubt I'll get to any auckland meetings anytime soon.. but I'll join as a member!)

[Ixion]

Motorcyclists' Action Group . MAG. Don't agree with excessive focus on safety in the presentation, or it would become just a channel for the government to push more restrictive legislation on us , like the AA ("How can you object to the new laws, they're to makethe roads safer, isn't that what you're all about?"). After all we all know speed kills, right?

Needs the young guys, too, and the guys with bottle, not all Nanas like me and grey heads.

[bugjuice]

I agree on the name issue.

But a bunch of newbies (to them) who barge in shouting about rights etc, and their name sucks, ain't gonna look good. Unless someone is going to take lead on a new group and start from the ground up, we can't go changing things like that, just cos it doesn't sound right.

And Ixion, instead of Action, how about Association? Altho we are bikers, not associated with bikers.. hmmmmm...


anyway, something else I thought about this morning, are there any MPs that ride bikes? May be some thought should be put into lobbying with them?

[Ixion]

Suggested MAG because that's the name of a quite successful motorcyclist lobby group in the UK. I checked once and they said they'd we willing to help with advice and such - I was doodling with the idea of starting a ginger group here, but never got beyond the doodle stage.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the name BRONZ. Bikers is what we are, Rights is what we want and the NZ comes naturally. And it's pronouncable.

Just needs more members and more clout. And more ginger.

Personally, again, I reckon having a somewhat "tough" public persona isn't a bad idea. No matter what you do , you're never going to make some members of the general public regard bikes positively, and trying to play Little Miss Goody Twoshoes just risks being marginalised, and becoming the token rubber stamp for the LTSA.

And, in fact, given that bikers do an awful lot of public good (when did you hear of a cage Blood Run or Toy Run ?) having a tough image can be good for publicity - makes a contrast , like - "Oh how interesting , see all those tough bikies, and they're collecting toys for the kiddies, isn't that cute"

I reckon some of the Maori activist groups probably would provide a good model.

EDIT: Only problem with BRONZ as a name is some people have thought the B meant Bikes as in treadleys. And MRONZ (Motorcyclists rights) would be an unfortunate choice - say it quickly. But really I don't reckon that changing a name is going to do much , and it's not really needed.

[Big Dave]

I was actually considering offerring my expertise to them, however I wanted to get along to the meeting on Wednesday and gauge the enthusiasm and future of BRONZ and its members.

For free membership I will be willing to help out with the website as well as anything else computer related.

BD, I'll PM you.


Excellent - I've sent the emails. Will get back to you.
cheers
dc

[Big Dave]

anyway, something else I thought about this morning, are there any MPs that ride bikes? May be some thought should be put into lobbying with them?


Spooky - Indeed there is - I'm meeting one for lunch today.

[bugjuice]

good on ya mate. Let us know how it goes then.

We need to get pally with someone on the inside and has connections. Be it someone from Bronz, or someone who has no idea, just rides bikes.. But we need a recognized voice with some clout.

[Big Dave]

I could maybe ask that Tamaki bloke? :slap:

[bugjuice]

and we'd all leave you Dave..

[Big Dave]

BRONZ and the insignia used on the website appears to be 'gang' related... and thats not an image you want to portray to government or the public (IMHO).


keep em coming,

Short of the Mickey Mouse type triumph rat - anything will get that result.
too soft and it won't appeal to bikers. (like the stupid mouse)

They are the cards we've been dealt and the good reputation the group has garnered would be wasted with a new playing pack.

[Pixie]

Utopia.
I looked it up just to make sure i have the right definition. yeah, I know, Wikipedia ain't 'definitive' - but for the sake of this exercise:
--------------------

Utopian, in its most common and general positive meaning, refers to the human efforts to create a better, or perhaps perfect society. Ideas which could/are considered able to radically change our world are often called utopian ideas.


*and slight stigmatism from staring at phosphor screens.I had vision too...the meths sorted that out.

Utopia...greek for nowhere.

Stigmatism? you have holes in your hands?

[Big Dave]

Stigmatism? you have holes in your hands?


Hmm - St Big Dave the evangelist - I like it!
yes! we have no tomartyrs today!:banana:


You set 'em up - I'll knock 'em over
boom-tish!

[bugjuice]

so..

[Big Dave]

so..


gold :first:

[Motu]

BRONZ was started back when we were all just hippies that got dirty (I've never been a member,but knew some of the guys who were) Utopia wasn't a dream,it was really going to happen....poof,like just appear with no effort on our part.We had ideals in those days,we were going to change the world - we sat around and talked about it,and talked about it....and then read another book and smoked some more dope and had another dream about another new world.

It seemed so real at the time,y'know?

I've always stood on the outside of the circle looking in...I always agree with what everyone says.I'm one of the reasons BRONZ is so gutless....

[SwanTiger]

BRONZ sounds like a dead entity to me, the lack of effort that goes into communicating with its members and to potential members is surprising. I'm sure there are dedicated people within the group however it needs a funeral.

It might be time a group of motorcycle minded individuals setup an organisation with more transparency and outward communication with members and non members. As well as organised rides to gain attention and notoriety from all the right people.

Not a new idea - Big Dave, anyone else keen on that?

BRONZ has the frame work there, but maybe its just rusted out to the point of no return, so to speak, Can it be revived?

[Big Dave]

I don't know for sure. I don't *know* the answers to lots of this stuff.

To me the work and effort that the people I met so far have put in is worthy of respect. Motu's call is true, if there is 'blame' then it rests more with indifference.

It appears to me that there is more right than wrong. Ther are processes already in place, I don't want to re-invent the wheel, just lubricate the one that is there. and maybe bolt on a big dave turbo kit:Punk:



I also like this brave new world stuff of using the e-forums to collaboratively talk it through. We're the first generations to do stuff like this.

[SwanTiger]

Yeah, well I'm keen to get along to one of these meetings and gauge its "liveliness" for myself then base a factual opinion.

For one, that website really does need some attention, I don't think its ready for a forum just yet, but it definitely needs to be updated on a regular basis and a member community needs to be established as well.

[Ixion]

All voluntary organisations go through this. They start out with everybody keen, and full of spunk , and roaring. It's a brave new world and everyone rushes head long into the fray. Sort of like a young guy with his first bike

Then the years go by , and everybody settles down. Gets comfortable. Establishes little routines. The bovver boots get changed for carpet slippers. Everybodys still keen and just as committed. But the fires banked down to a nice glow.

Sort of like when you're young a fire means a roaring conflagration with steaks and sausgaes, and lots of beer and people passing out and spewing intot he flames and heaps of noise. Then when y'get older a fire means a cost fireplace and a couple of easy chairs and a nice glass of wine before bed.

But new blood can revitalise an organisation, cos the new folk are all roar and full throttle again. And if you CAN introduce the new blood without the old experienced hands getting pissed off and quiting, then you have the best of both worlds.

And if you can wind the motor up again, it's much easier than restarting from scratch.

[Ixion]

Yeah, well I'm keen to get along to one of these meetings and gauge its "liveliness" for myself then base a factual opinion.

For one, that website really does need some attention, I don't think its ready for a forum just yet, but it definitely needs to be updated on a regular basis and a member community needs to be established as well.

See , 'tis indeed the bold nbew world. 20 years ago, even 10 years ago , who'd have thought the first question about any organisation would be "What's its website like?". Yet nowdays it's the first question folk ask - "What's the URL ?"

These are exciting times we live in .

[Big Dave]

See , 'tis indeed the bold nbew world.

touch early for the sherry ibsn't it?