Hazards - A recent happening [Archive]

Squeak the Rat

22nd March 2006, 15:03

Just a [soft] little wake up reminder that I got the other weekend….. Take from it what you will, flame if you must.....

I was in the car with some passengers and I was doing just over 110 on the Hauraki plains. Just cruising, plenty of time to slow down if a car on the horizon looks like a copper, nice long road with no side roads, just a couple of fences, hedges, and long farmer driveways etc. A speed which I’m sure 95% of people on this site would deem perfectly acceptable.

Then a very young girl ran out onto the road from behind a hedge. :mellow:

I had just enough time and space to swerve around her whilst being bloody careful not to cause a head on with the oncoming traffic. The car behind me only just had enough time to stop and the passenger got out and grabbed the girl off the road.

Don't get me wrong, I’m certainly not trying to preach about speed or anything (because I'd be the last to talk), but another 10km per hour and I reckon she would have been toast. Even if i was only doing 80kph that would haunt me forever.

Should I have identified the hazard? Well I sort of did - I saw the hedge and thought something could be there, but there didn't look like anything was behind it. I certainly didn't expect a 2 year old girl to jump out in front of me.

I guess sometimes shit happens, but do your best to avoid stepping in it. Keep them eyes open and that brane thinking…

PS - Of course on a bike there would have been much more room to manouver. But then again i *cough* might be going a wee bit quicker on the bike.....

bugjuice

22nd March 2006, 15:05

whats the posted speed limit?
this a residential area?

Paul in NZ

22nd March 2006, 15:11

whats the posted speed limit?
this a residential area?

Unfortunately, in the era of 'The Lifestyle Block' the whole country is becoming an urban area!

Maha

22nd March 2006, 15:20

When an accident like thats happens ( which it didnt ) it could screw you up for a long while, it aint like running over a dog or hedgehog but where were the parents?. Surely living so close to the highway it would be paramount for the parents to have a closed gate on the driveway if there are kids around. I know of a family that sold their house just north of here recently for those very reasons. Take a deep breath Rat and pat on the back for your reaction at the time, you saved a life it would seem.... could have worse but wasnt...:calm:

SwanTiger

22nd March 2006, 15:20

whats the posted speed limit?
this a residential area?

With long straights and farmer driveways I'm going to assume this isn't exactly your typical suburban 'road' with a posted 50kmp/h speed limit.

Open road presumably.

Its interesting how many people there are who can't identify these sorts of hazards while riding (or driving for that matter). When coming across potential hazards such as concealed side roads it is common for most to do nothing.

I can illustrate this with a short blat I did last night out to some of my favourite round abouts. Coming up I noticed three vehicles coming from the left, I presumed they hadn't seen me. I was correct. Two cars drove straight out in front of me, If I had of assumed that they'd seen me and carried on ... my poor bike!

The female driver in the rear car got a fright when I pulled up beside her, you could see it on her face.

Motu

22nd March 2006, 15:28

This sort of stuff gives me nightmares,it doesn't matter how alert you are - scanning continuously,as you scan across to the right...there she is from the left and bang! One in a million possibility,but it's always there....

Squeak the Rat

22nd March 2006, 15:31

whats the posted speed limit?
this a residential area?

Sorry guys, it was open road. Nice looong open road, so 110 = no problem in my book (unless you squash some one small i guess....)

The farm house was about 400 metres from the road. It was just that damn hedge......

WRT

22nd March 2006, 15:38

Ok, doesnt help in this case, but a tip for newbies - if you are driving round town, you can use any mirror like surface such as shop windows to see behind obstacles. Also, if you are passing stationary trucks and buses, dont try to look around them, look under them instead. If someone has just hopped off a bus at a stop and is walking around the front of it (as an example), you will see their feet and be able to react long before they have chance to pop out from in front of it.

Well done though Rat, that could have gone a lot worse if you werent paying attention. Scary if you think what might have happened if you had been changing the radio station at the time, or if you were one of the many muppets around that txt while driving.

Paul in NZ

22nd March 2006, 15:57

When I was about 16 and on my first bike (1954 AJS 500cc Single) I collected a young girl (only a couple of years younger than me) who raced out of her folks drive on her push bike and straight into my bike. (ie she ran into the side of the bike). I wasn't speeding or anything like speeding and just had time to try and avoid her (more felt her coming than actually saw it) but sadly I only nearly missed her.

The house had a big hedge out the front and there was no way I could see her until the last minute and she (by her own admission) was just plain not looking.

No real harm done. Her bike was a bit mangled and the AJS lost some paint, she lost a bit of skin and I damn near shit myself. In fact the worst injury to her was her pride! I took her back inside the house and her mum went apeshit at me and then, when she found out what happened, her but it was just that Mum was worried etc (you know how it goes) Apparently she had already had a go at her about not looking before she tore out the driveway!

I tell you what though! Those driveways still give me the willies even now!

Good skills to avoid the kid!

Cheers

Mental Trousers

22nd March 2006, 16:46

That would've scared the fuck out of me.

kickingzebra

22nd March 2006, 16:59

Practising the "spider sense" definately makes you expect more of the unexpected and plan accordingly. Thank the good lord you missed on that occasion, and I as a muppet who occasionally texts while driving, am growing more and more against the practice.

sunhuntin

22nd March 2006, 20:05

good luck on missin the kid....but im also wondering where the hell where her parents? :slap:

sAsLEX

22nd March 2006, 21:48

just going to mention one thing "Darwin" now he had some sharp ideas that man :yes:

Timetogo

23rd March 2006, 10:30

Was really lucky that you missed her,you did well:clap:
But from another pint of view the media etc is always bloody quick to blame "speeding" but how about parental control and responsibility...:bash:

FROSTY

27th March 2006, 20:05

Im sorry guys I gotta defend ma and Pa here.Unless you are around young kids (1-5) all the time you have NO idea how far and how fast the lil critters can move- Or for that matter just how big an obstical theycan get over/through to make their break for freedom.

Its one of my worst nightmates keeping baby baby bikie safe.

surfchick

27th March 2006, 20:14

... Scary if you think what might have happened if you had been changing the radio station at the time, or if you were one of the many muppets around that txt while driving.

dude i was riding home over the te atatu off ramp bridge and a rider coming off the north western was texting while RIDING-i kid you not... probably someone form here...:devil2:

madboy

27th March 2006, 20:35

I gotta agree with Frosty, it's pretty damn hard to keep your eyes on kids. Even more so in a rural environment where traditionally kids will wander more than a few metres from the doorway.

I used to deliver pizza years ago, and the one night of the year I truly hated was halloween. It was friggin kids bloody everywhere, zooming around from outta no where, too excited with the goodies they were scoring to worry about big heavy metallic objects travelling toward them. Kids don't think.

But in saying that, for every example someone puts up where 10km/h slower woulda made the difference, I can also think of an argument where if you'd been going 100km/h faster you would've been long past them. I tell ya, you can't fault that logic can you? Completely avoids the need for evasive maneouvres.

oldrider

27th March 2006, 20:39

A few years ago a girl, (similar to your incident Squeak the Rat) rode her bike out onto the highway directly into the path of an oncoming car.
Result: instant fatality.
The family lived just down the road from here and our kids were friends with older siblings of the victim.
Very sad event for the family, the community and the driver of the car, who was not found to be doing anything wrong by the way but it didn't make it any easier for anyone involved.
I guess you were very lucky not to have been involved in a no fault, no win very sad situation. :( Good post. Cheers John.

Krusti

27th March 2006, 21:01

This is one of my great fears when riding...half of the thoughts running through my head relate to what if...? Defensive driving is a real kill joy!

Then again I dare not tell you what I think about the other half of the time...:cold: :angry: :shit: :ride: :confused: :o :chase: :Oops: :woohoo: :finger:

FROSTY

27th March 2006, 21:08

Ohh and squeak --Good onya for avoiding the lil gal

ZorsT

28th March 2006, 17:44

If you were doing 120, you waould have been past her when she ran out onto the road...

terbang

28th March 2006, 18:29

Good Skills for avoiding what could have easily become a fatality and an absolute nightmare for all involved..!
Bling bling

terbang

29th March 2006, 08:54

But in saying that, for every example someone puts up where 10km/h slower woulda made the difference, I can also think of an argument where if you'd been going 100km/h faster you would've been long past them. I tell ya, you can't fault that logic can you? Completely avoids the need for evasive maneouvres.

And the arguement that the the small girl had stepped out 10 or 30 seconds earlier would mean that at 210 KPH (as you imply) avoidance would have been far more difficult to cognite. This being the fault in yer logic I tell ya. Need I describe the mess an impact of 210 KPH would have on small body. I also enjoy riding at higher speeds on my bike but I don't try to kid myself that it may improve safety.

Obviously the good outcome of this incident was, along with luck, directly as a result of Squeak's appropriate speed at an appropriate time thus giving him the time to avoid (as he did). 110Kph is not a difficult speed for most drivers or cars to operate at and is below speed limits in many parts of the world.

Finn

29th March 2006, 09:09

If you'd been going at least 130, you would have been well past her by the time she walked out onto the road.

Fact: Speeding saves lives.

terbang

29th March 2006, 09:31

If you'd been going at least 130, you would have been well past her by the time she walked out onto the road.

Fact: Speeding saves lives.

Keep up the medicine mate..!

ManDownUnder

29th March 2006, 09:51

dude i was riding home over the te atatu off ramp bridge and a rider coming off the north western was texting while RIDING-i kid you not... probably someone form here...:devil2:

that's amasing ...

texting with gloves on... (I assume they had gloves - right??)
texting while riding (which controls weren't they using?)

and a bonus point for sheer stupidity...!

Next time - hunt them down and give them earful. The life you save might be theirs... or it could be yours...

kickingzebra

29th March 2006, 11:44

Oh, and when you have hunted them down, and chewed their ear off, find out their KB log in, and award green bling, for inventiveness!!

madboy

29th March 2006, 12:34

yada yada yada... I'm either taking the piss or an LTNZ patsy.At 210k your fairings would be rooted. Or if in a car, the front of the car would be rooted. Either way you'd be picking bits of little Daisy out of your vehicle for a while to come. At 110k, your fairings would be rooted. Or if in a car, the front of the car would be rooted. Either way, you'd be picking bits of little Daisy out of your vehcile for a while to come. I'm not seeing a significant difference in impact result here?

How do you figure Squeak was doing the appropriate speed at the appropriate time? If he'd been going 10k slower and OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT therefore NOT engaging in an illegal act, he would have been able to avoid the situation with even more ease. And if he had identified the potential hazard of the hedge AND slowed down to, say, 80k then it would have been a complete non-event.

Don't discount the role luck plays in crashes. Driving on the wrong side of the road through a blind corner doesn't kill you, it's the car coming the other way. So logic says if the car isn't there, you don't get killed. Doesn't meant o say that it's a good idea to do, or that you can or will get away with it that often before the coin flips. In this case, luck was on the side of Squeak and the kid. He appeared to react well to the circumstances he was put in when the kid popped out. In another case, it may well have not been such a good outcome.

Brett

29th March 2006, 17:44

This reminds me of a very similar experiece i had as an 18 year old.
I bought my first sports car, AE101 Levin GTZ, and there used to be this long and straight road near my house in a rural setting(100kph) that was seldom used.
The thought came to me to give it a bit of a speed test. I started at the beginning of the road and got to about 90kph, and got this sick feeling in my stomach that something was not right, buttoned off and sat at 90 for the rest of the road. Got to the point where i WOULD have been doing about 160kph and a little girl on a bmx road straight out into the road.
Yes you might say, you woulda missed her possibly, but i know for certain that if i hadn't slowed down she would have been part of my bonnet.
Sickening thought that i try to remember when the speed demon comes calling. No amount of fun is worth killing someone innocent. I would rather kill myself.

There are still a few good roads that are safe for speed, but they are becoming far and few between.

Hazard identification of the most important part of driving!

SlowHand

29th March 2006, 20:29

If you'd been going at least 130, you would have been well past her by the time she walked out onto the road.

Fact: Speeding saves lives.

:slap: post stealer! you just changed the speed. scroll up a lil doo'

metric

29th March 2006, 20:31

FROSTY

29th March 2006, 22:09

Finn

29th March 2006, 22:34

Im a responsible parent --my son climbed out of his bedroom window when He was put to bed for a nap --and wandered off up the road --age 2 and stark naked.
What would I have done different ??--nothing

Dude, buy your kid some clothes. No wonder he tried to find some new parents.

scumdog

30th March 2006, 08:26

that's amasing ...

texting with gloves on... (I assume they had gloves - right??)
texting while riding (which controls weren't they using?)

and a bonus point for sheer stupidity...!

Next time - hunt them down and give them earful. The life you save might be theirs... or it could be yours...

Yep, where is Darwin when you need him at times like this??:rolleyes:

BTW Good avatar MDU, have any others noticed the significance??:msn-wink:

terbang

30th March 2006, 08:42

How do you figure Squeak was doing the appropriate speed at the appropriate time? If he'd been going 10k slower and OBEYING THE SPEED LIMIT therefore NOT engaging in an illegal act, he would have been able to avoid the situation with even more ease. And if he had identified the potential hazard of the hedge AND slowed down to, say, 80k then it would have been a complete non-event.

Have another read of what I said and you will notice the word cognite now relate it to the difference between 110k and 210k and I did not discount luck. Its a lot to do with recognition and subsequent reaction time/distance and the ability for the vehicle to manouvre at that speed. It appears that Squeak had all of this on his side at 110 K thus enabling him, as he has said, to move to the other lane and avoid. So the logic of his speed being appropriate remains tight because an accident was averted and I did not discount luck ther .. I aint taking the piss and I aint a LTSA pussy. I do have a good understanding of the human & machine factors of high speed flight in close proximity to the ground "see and avoid" concept twas my job for a while and also did it in the night time as well (luck was also involved there as well) which, apart from not being on a road and having no speed limit, it is not much different to the "see and avoid" in a car or motorcycle (same physics). Believe me your safety logic between 210K and 110K is fundamentally flawed and the only bit I agree on is the luck.
When an accident happens it is a series of events that causes it which it is often referred to as an error chain. When all the links in the chain are connected (including the ran outta luck one) then an accident will happen. Breaking one link (our intervention) in that chain will avert an accident and that occurs often, in our environment, by the appropriate management of speed.

Short of putting my little ones on a leash I cant see any other way in giving kids 100% supervision and certainly hope, that if/when they stray onto the road, all other factors are in their favour and that it is not in front of some twat, who relying on good luck, believes 210Ks is as appropriate as 110K on a public road.

madboy

30th March 2006, 12:50

...some twat, who relying on good luck, believes 210Ks is as appropriate as 110K on a public road.I never said 210k was as appropriate did I? Or did I? I don't remember! But in this particular example if squeak was doing 210k he would have been miles up the road before the kid ran out. So IN THIS case 210 would have avoided THIS potential crash by a much bigger margin than he did at 110k.

Of course, he might have run into the farmer who crossed the road on his quad without looking, 10k up the road, but cos he was travelling at 110k he arrived minutes later when the farmer was stopped in the middle of the paddock eyeing up his favourite sheep and posing no road hazard whatsoever.

scumdog

30th March 2006, 12:58

I never said 210k was as appropriate did I? Or did I? I don't remember! But in this particular example if squeak was doing 210k he would have been miles up the road before the kid ran out. So IN THIS case 210 would have avoided THIS potential crash by a much bigger margin than he did at 110k.

Of course, he might have run into the farmer who crossed the road on his quad without looking, 10k up the road, but cos he was travelling at 110k he arrived minutes later when the farmer was stopped in the middle of the paddock eyeing up his favourite sheep and posing no road hazard whatsoever.

Okaaay, this whole post was a piss-take, right?...right??

madboy

30th March 2006, 13:07

A piss take? Hell no... I genuinely believe that 210k is safe! Particularly lane-splitting in the wet with high winds in the midst of a pig chase during rush hour.

Goblin

30th March 2006, 18:59

I guess sometimes shit happens, but do your best to avoid stepping in it. Keep them eyes open and that brane thinking…

Good skills Squeak....

Shit does happen....often. On my way to Te Puke today I took the back road around Lake Rotorua(Hamurana). Over the years I've learnt to trust my instincts on the road and as I was approaching the Hamurana bridge, I thought, "ya never know what's around the corner!" Well I was only doing 100km/h but backed off and came round the blind left hander and there was a surveyor with his little wheel IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FARKING BRIDGE!! NO signs out or any kind of warning. I grabbed a handful of brakes and JUST missed him as he RAN off the road! I yelled at him to put some FARKIN signs out:mad: but doubt he heard me under my lid. It seems that EVERY time I think 'ya never know what's around the corner'...something happens. Then on my way home-via the Kaimais-I came up behind two cars doing 80km/h but was a double yellow line, could have passed them both but thought again....then whadya know? A cop was coming the other way....so it seems I have a built in :Police: detector too.:shifty: Also had a good play up & down the Kaimais with a guy on a brand new Apriliahhhh....then stopped at Oko to find out he'd just bought it yesterday:woohoo: :2thumbsup

pritch

2nd April 2006, 10:37

When I was about 16 and on my first bike (1954 AJS 500cc Single)

Now that takes me back, my first bike was a 1954 AJS 350.

Driving along a suburban street where the houses are above the level of the road needs care. I was driving a bus one day and a kid (maybe seven or eight years old) came shooting out onto the road on a skateboard going like the clappers. He had a nice steep driveway and could get real good acceleration.

I missed him but it was only good luck really

metric

2nd April 2006, 12:32

Metric--dude do we really want yet another law that gives the nanny state more control of our lives.??
Im a responsible parent --my son climbed out of his bedroom window when He was put to bed for a nap --and wandered off up the road --age 2 and stark naked.
What would I have done different ??--nothing
We do our best but sometimes its fatal

frosty - dunno man - its a tough one... if something had happened to him, you'd be devastated... yeah I guess I haven't really thought about it like that