Let's make learner drivers have 800cc cars [Archive]

Meanie

25th March 2006, 21:28

Restricting the HP rather than engine size like they should do on motorcycles would be a good idea..
Yea i have to agree my 18 year old son went out and brought a Evo 4 dam thing is a street legal race car and is faster than my XR8 ute
Trouble is with the attitude they have at that age they think they are bullet proof until they kill someone
Thankfully my son lost his job and had to sell it before he got into too much trouble but not before he racked up a fortune in tickets, some nasty letters from public hed pissed off when drag racing and loosing his lisence
So yea just let them drive a stock standard 1200cc car and nothing bigger until they have a year or so under thier belt
I know the roads will be a hell of a lot safer for us bike riders!!! and our children

Streetwise

25th March 2006, 21:31

here here i agree

thealmightytaco

25th March 2006, 22:21

Brian d marge

25th March 2006, 23:20

Lets make learner drivers have 800cc cars, Did you see the news tonight regarding the use of smaller cc cars for under 20s, I think its a bloody good idea,:killingme

They can have my honda acty ..600cc of pure mussel ,,,3 working cylinders, AM AND FM radio ... Manual Airconditioning Actual Dunlop PnueMatic tyres.

Can reach actual motorway speeds. ( well a friend of mine said it did 90 km/h I personally dont have any evidence of that ...)

Mind you the average hoodie could still become a statistic even in one of those

Stephen

Timber020

26th March 2006, 00:00

I think a power to weight ratio ruling would work better and to not allow them to have modified cars, otherwise you would have people making sleepers all over. Engine size limits is as stupid as the 250cc limit when you could get an RGV yet a 70's cb350 was a no go.

Crazy Steve

26th March 2006, 00:17

think...a bout...the...children...

will...someone...think...a bout...the...children

cra z y...steve

Shadows

26th March 2006, 00:55

I reckon make them all ride bikes for six months first. Darwin had it right.

myvice

26th March 2006, 02:43

I reckon make them all ride bikes for six months first. Darwin had it right.
Make it a year, we have to ride through winter and why should we have all the fun?

Colapop

26th March 2006, 08:04

It's something I've been saying for years. Learner drivers and those under the age of 20 should not be allowed to drive cars greater than 1200cc unmodified.
I heard on the news last night some guy saying that you'd have to have cops be machanics to be able to see if a car has been modified - Bullshit. Granted there are modifications you can make that aren't easily seen, but if you lift the bonnet of a car and see a whole mess of shiny bits then that's a dead giveaway isn't it? Who is going to go to the effort of spending that sort of money and hide it?

Limb

26th March 2006, 08:18

lol 800cc is toooo slow...

myvice

26th March 2006, 08:57

lol 800cc is toooo slow...
I dunno, the Smart car is good for about 130kph...

Krusti

26th March 2006, 10:04

What the world needs now is more slow drivers..:mad:

But you're right some of these cars are rockets...I remember when I was a young fulla and went for a ride in a GTE Cortina, we got excited when it got to 70 mph!:2thumbsup

What about the time we put 2 horses on the carriage:lol:

Streetwise

26th March 2006, 10:06

i say under 1300 unmodified would be good, Yes i agree you would be hard pushed not to spot a modified car,

Streetwise

26th March 2006, 10:08

I guess its not really how fast i goes, its how fast it gets there and how controllable the power is, These evo s and alike take off like rockets and these kiddies just cant handle the power, where a car that can do 200k but takes 10ks to get there is less risk ???

terbang

26th March 2006, 10:56

Whilst the vehical type certainly plays a big part in the final crunch it is the attitude of the driver that also plays just as bigger part when it comes to a serious accident. We have had cc restrictions in th M/C world for some time now and I wonder if there is any statistic to prove its worth.
Boy Racers are generally lumped into the category of those that drive fast in hotted up jap cars around our public roads and it is the attitude that tends to offend (and eventually Kill) that needs attention. If we broaden our view a little, even to some of the "im faster than you" or "you are so slow" squid type postings we often see on this site by some of our members, we will easily see that the boy racer attitude is not only confined to cars and is still alive and kicking in the M/C world where we have had supposed power restrictions for some time. What I am saying here is the power restriction is only a part measure to fixing the problem.
Things like Education, age restrictions, availability of race tracks (to let off the steam), compulsory third party insurance & perhaps harsher penalties (FOR KILLING SOMEONE) also need to be addressed.

Sniper

26th March 2006, 11:09

Doesn't bother me really. I mean, if someone wants to buy a car they can lose their license in, cool. Means they are off the road for a while

Swoop

26th March 2006, 11:15

Doesn't bother me really. I mean, if someone wants to buy a car they can lose their license in, cool. Means they are off the road for a while
But how many innocents/passengers/bystanders do they kill to get to that stage?

Lower cc rating (like bikes) and NO MODS done or else we'll see 800cc's with NOx kits added to them...

Make ALL licence applicants HAVE to ride a bike for a year and we'll see more respect on the roads from tin tops (plus an increase in bikers!).

Krusti

26th March 2006, 11:25

But how many innocents/passengers/bystanders do they kill to get to that stage?

Lower cc rating (like bikes) and NO MODS done or else we'll see 800cc's with NOx kits added to them...

Make ALL licence applicants HAVE to ride a bike for a year and we'll see more respect on the roads from tin tops (plus an increase in bikers!).

Problem is imagine our ACC levies after all those dickheads crashing their bikes! Would teach them to look out though. But putting some of those Asian learner drivers on a bike? NO THANKS.

terbang

26th March 2006, 11:27

Doesn't bother me really. I mean, if someone wants to buy a car they can lose their license in, cool. Means they are off the road for a while

So how many have to die to get them off the road..? We are allready measuring our sucesses (or failures) on the yearly road death toll which is a reactive way of looking at it. Its time we (road users) bacame more proactive to road safety.

Sniper

26th March 2006, 15:22

I suppose I could have worded my sentance better. I understand that these guys buy certain cars to give themselves bigger penises, but what I meant is that in the timeframe between them losing their licenses and then gaining it again, we are just that minute but safer.

Quite a few people consider themselves to be bulletproof. Shit 5 days out of the week I believe myself invincible. And the other 2 are spend reflecting on what sort of an idiot I was. We all have to admit that at one point or another we did something that in hindsight was dangerous for ourselves, neighbours, bystanders, dogs, cats, woolly mammoths and such. But for that brief 30mins, hour, a day, we felt like king of the world didn't we? Thats why its so hard to drill the thought pattern into youngsters (and some oldies) heads that certain shit they do is dangerous. I suppose we could use a 12v drill and some titanium drill bits, but then again I don't want to go to jail.

But my point is that its hard to educate certain individuals at certain times because of a situation they have just experienced has caused them to believe that they are Gods. Hell, Im a guilty culprit of that, but sit down with them when they are calm or tied down and you may just have a wee bit of luck educating them. Otherwise they will just learn the hard way.

Did that make sense?

terbang

26th March 2006, 15:31

Loud and clear there Sniper..
Here is something sobering for all of us that ride in groups together and have those little moments..

Matekohi Matthew Morgan was not driving the car that crashed, killing teenagers Luke Hall and Tyson Bruggy, but he appeared in court yesterday charged with their manslaughter.

In what is understood to be one of the first cases of its kind, Morgan has been charged for his part in a street race that claimed the lives of the two young men.

It is alleged that 18-year-old Morgan and the driver of another car, Ricky John Smith, began racing between Pukekohe and Waiuku in November 2004. As Mr Smith, 17 at the time, tried to overtake at between 148km/h and 178km/h, his car left the road and rolled. His passengers, Mr Bruggy and Mr Hall, both died.

The Crown case is that Morgan encouraged Mr Smith to drive dangerously, making him a party to the manslaughter. He faces two charges of causing death by dangerous driving causing manslaughter.

He denies the charges.

In his opening address, Crown prosecutor Howard Lawry said Mr Morgan's part in the race, in which he is alleged to have reached speeds that were "off the clock", was a direct cause of death.

"At those speeds it's small wonder two young men died," he said.

Mr Lawry told the jury Morgan's actions had contributed to the deaths by encouraging, or inciting, the race.

He likened the point of law to a bank robbery. The getaway driver was guilty of the robbery despite not being the man who walked in and demanded the money.

"[Mr Smith and Morgan] have formed an informal agreement," Mr Lawry said. "They've started racing and, by participating, the dangerous driving is known to be a likely consequence. It's that dangerous driving which in turn is a direct cause of two deaths."

Mr Lawry said Crown evidence would show it was not a pre-arranged race. It came after two groups met up at Sandspit Beach, Waiuku, one including Morgan and the other including Mr Smith.

Both the drivers had been drinking, Mr Lawry said, but there was no suggestion Morgan was over the limit.

They decided to drive to Pukekohe to buy alcohol and on the way back began overtaking each other at "excessive speeds". The fatal smash happened as Mr Smith tried to overtake Morgan about 2.45am on November 12, 2004.

Mr Lawry said: "Where you have two men who have consumed some alcohol and are involved in a cat and mouse race at grossly excessive speeds while overtaking each other, then both their actions have contributed to the deaths."

More than 20 witnesses are expected to be called during the trial before Justice David Baragwanath.

onearmedbandit

26th March 2006, 15:32

The area of the brain that deals with reasoned thinking is not fully developed untill around the age of 25. Consequences, no matter how hard you drill them home, don't mean squat to these guys on average as their brains are not fully developed. I remember a member here posting about his younger boy-racer brother who was still going out and living on the edge despite I think 5 of his friends being killed in recent weeks. Now if that doesn't teach them what will?

Having been into performance cars for a long time, although bikes have always been my first love, owning numerous V8's and turbo cars, I still don't understand why people refer to them as 'penis extensions'. I, and others I knew and still know, built or bought our cars because we enjoyed driving them, owning them, and working on them. The admiration we got from some females as a result was just a bonus, sometimes one you could do without! Others could just say our bikes are the same yet everyone here would argue the opposite.

Sorry Sniper, this is nothing against you. I haven't checked this thread for a while and only read your post and it reminded me to write this.

Sniper

26th March 2006, 15:38

No offense taken OAB, its a true fact and there is no challenging it. Its nice to be reminded of it now and again.

thealmightytaco

26th March 2006, 15:49

They decided to drive to Pukekohe to buy alcohol and on the way back began overtaking each other at "excessive speeds". The fatal smash happened as Mr Smith tried to overtake Morgan about 2.45am on November 12, 2004.[/FONT][/COLOR]

All I can think reading that is... I'd hate to be riding casually along in the opposite direction and come across these two. Even in a cage you'd be rooted. Give these kinds of guys pedal powered cars till they're 25 I reckon.

In the modern world of fandangled computers, soon you'll have to swipe your license through the cars/bikes computer before it'll start, and then depending on what level of license you have it'll map it and restrict the engine just so. Then even the likes of MidnightMike can puddle around town on his Hayabusa, swearing and cursing as he tries to pass Grandma in her Morris.

Streetwise

26th March 2006, 16:52

Yea it is a serious problem right throughout nz, Go to any city on a friday and sat night and you can see for yourself, Whats funny though is that these kids get thousands of dollars worth of tickets and dont care, Once you have your fisrt thousand worth you just keep on paying, So my theory is the first tickets have to make these kids stop what they are doing, (Ie) no second chance, car is gone first time, ??? We all no that this would be a pain in the ass but it may work for your drivers not on full licences, ???

onearmedbandit

26th March 2006, 17:02

Whats a 'true fact' Sniper? If you are refering to the 'penis-extension' analogy it must work also on the sub-conscious level as neither my friends nor myself thought it necessary to make up for anything. We just enjoyed our cars and bikes.

Coyote

26th March 2006, 17:26

Castrate boy racers so they don't go showing off

oldguy

26th March 2006, 17:27

Having been into performance cars for a long time, although bikes have always been my first love, owning numerous V8's and turbo cars, I still don't understand why people refer to them as 'penis extentions'. I, and others I knew and still know, built or bought our cars because we enjoyed driving them, owning them, and working on them. The admiration we got from some females as a result was just a bonus, sometimes one you could do without! Others could just say our bikes are the same yet everyone here would argue the opposite.

I know what your saying, I to love my car and injoy "cruzin" around in it, when I'm out i always have young guys coming up behind me maybe they think I'm gay, and try and entice me into a race,
Hell they would beat me anyway I,m out just for a cruz, I think its got to to with that good o'll testosterone thing again my car is faster than yours sort of thing that guy that got killed had the option he did not have to race, it,s the same as riding in a group you don't have to try and keep up with the fast guys.
So even if they reduce the engin capacitie there are so many aftermarket stuff out there would be hard to police.

Streetwise

26th March 2006, 20:25

yea but its still better than letting a 15 year old cruise in a V8,

oldguy

26th March 2006, 22:18

yea but its still better than letting a 15 year old cruise in a V8,
Yeah my 12 year old daughter has got her eye on the brocky says that when shes old enough to get her licence she wants to drive that around.:no:
Not likely to happen unless I'm sitting in the car, may be if she were 25 yeah.:mellow:

Streetwise

26th March 2006, 22:56

yea a good idea i would think

Buster

26th March 2006, 23:01

I think some sort of horsepower limit is a step in the right direction. Ive been saying it for years. Make insurance compulsory so young people can be held more responsible for there actions.. Say 2 infringments in 2 years means cancellation of insurance, which means no more driving. Cant buy that v8 subaru evo IVVII because its in the wrong class till you turn 25. Lets face it, almost anyone can walk into a dealer and get finance on a fast car. Not over 25? no sale. They can still bling out there cars to a certain degree, it will just be more about show than go.

Insanity_rules

27th March 2006, 07:11

I gotta say I agree with Buster. Compulsary insurance would be a start to restricting the type of car a learner/ restricted pilot could get. When I was a kid the fastest things you could get were holdens and the like. Now a restricted licence kid can go buy an Evo or a GTST without really knowing how to hold an old piece of shit on the road at motorway speed which in my opinion made you a better driver. I've had some scary encounters with boy racers while on my bike.

Before you put this post down to old guy with a chip or jealousy, I'm only 33 and have owned 4 V8's (2 of which were show cars), a celica, a very modified cordia turbo, A skyline, an RS2000 Escort and many other fast cars.

There is a time and a place to test performance.

Sniper

27th March 2006, 08:34

Whats a 'true fact' Sniper?

The area of the brain that deals with reasoned thinking is not fully developed untill around the age of 25. Consequences, no matter how hard you drill them home, don't mean squat to these guys on average as their brains are not fully developed.

That fact. It just was a nice simple way of summing up my babble

Drunken Monkey

27th March 2006, 08:38

Ixion

27th March 2006, 08:57

,,, Don't you think we live in a country with enough "you can't do this" and "don't do that" laws?

No, no, we need LOTS more laws to tell us what to do. Don't you relaise, there are still people out there deciding what to do for themselves . Thinking for themselves! Why , horrific though the notion is, there may even be some who are still taking responsibility for their own lives and their own actions.

We must put a stop to this!. We need more laws and regulations. Lots more laws and regulations, so that EVERYTHING people do is covered by a rule. People's lifes must be regulated solely by rules, made by the rule-makers. If there isn't a rule about it, one should be promulgated immediately.

Oh, and lots more government departments to enforce all the rules. And lots of heavy penalties for anyone who breaks the rules.

Motu

27th March 2006, 09:09

What I want to know is how these kids can afford to buy these things? I started work when I was 16,and by the time I was 18 could afford the deposit and payments on a 175cc motorcycle.An 18 yr old is practicaly straight out of school these days,and if they have a few clues they are going to uni...how the hell do they get these vehicles I can't even afford??

onearmedbandit

27th March 2006, 09:23

Drunken Monkey, we're talking about people who don't have the skills to handle an olfd Ford escort yet can go and buy a 300hp 4wd turbo. See if you think the same when one of these people take you or someone close yto you out.

Buster

27th March 2006, 09:33

It's a bloody arse idea, that's what it is. F'n typical attitude of people these days, regulate the moderate masses just to 'protect' the stupid few who are going to hurt themselves in some shape or form anyway. Don't you think we live in a country with enough "you can't do this" and "don't do that" laws?

Inocent bystanders arent necessarily stupid but they still get hurt. Times have changed, technology has moved on, I recon the laws have to be bought up to date.

terbang

27th March 2006, 17:04

The area of the brain that deals with reasoned thinking is not fully developed untill around the age of 25. Consequences, no matter how hard you drill them home, don't mean squat to these guys on average as their brains are not fully developed

Well I sort of agree though at 23 I was commanding a multi crew aircraft and some of my colleagues were younger. However that was in a more controlled environment than a bunch of teen age dicks out on the piss trying to impress their females..

sAsLEX

27th March 2006, 17:17

Well I sort of agree though at 23 I was commanding a multi crew aircraft and some of my colleagues were younger. However that was in a more controlled environment than a bunch of teen age dicks out on the piss trying to impress their females..

My mates younger than that control 30000 shaft HP 500 million dollar warship, but then could only drive a pissant 800cc ? blanket laws like that would just annoy people and they would still find way to go out and kill themselves and innocent people.

Ixion

27th March 2006, 17:24

Don't know whether anyone noticed, but the crash which occassioned the original comments form teh coroner, occured at the breathtaking speed of 120km (estimated, probably less).

What sort of capacity limit do we need to ensure that top speed will be less than 120kph ?

Ask Mr Motu about his 800cc turbo Charade.

Very logical solution. If it is agreed that young drivers should not be allowed to drive faster than 100kph, make it a legal requirement to fit restrictors that cut the ignition at 100kph. Sorted.

Course, how long before some bright spark realises that the 100kph limit applies to everyone so everyone should have the restrictors. Including those idiot motorcylists racing about at absurd and dangerous speeds.

Still want to go there ?

Ixion

27th March 2006, 17:25

My mates younger than that control 30000 shaft HP 500 million dollar warship, ....

hah. BUSTED. So it was YOU guys that stole Frosty's horsepower !. Give it back !

BTW, what's the HP at the rear wheel, shaft HP doesn't count for much.

Free Rider

27th March 2006, 18:33

yeah to slow..

oldguy

27th March 2006, 18:42

Before you put this post down to old guy with a chip or jealousy, I'm only 33 and have owned 4 V8's (2 of which were show cars), a celica, a very modified cordia turbo, A skyline, an RS2000 Escort and many other fast cars.

There is a time and a place to test performance.

Why would you say that I would put your post down or have a chip or jealousy what I"m trying to say if I go out on a friday nite just for a cruz I will always
get some Idiot who wants to race me, that is were the problem lies with younger guys instead of egnoring them they take up the challage to race its like they have somthing to prove, most times they have someone else in the car with them egging them on I have also had this when out on my bike its just not worth it.
I Love performance cars be they be Yank tanks jappers or Ozzie cars its just who is sitting in that drivers seat.
I love my car there is nothing on this planet that I would ever trade it for, its not fast 15 sec 1/4 mile but it is what I have always wanted.
I see you have had a nice collection of cars would like to have seen that RS2000 Escort.
I think with the insurance thing is a good idea to monitor the type of car a restricted drive can buy, but with all the after market parts available testing stations would have to have a dyno to check power output when they come in for a WOF

Timber020

27th March 2006, 21:14

When racing standard stocks, the cars have to have a plate fitted to the air intake which limits what air the engine can take in, therefore limiting horsepower. Have a size worked out for exhaust to the engines size. It could be added to family cars when learners are driving. To check no extra out holes have been put in the system you just need to block the exhaust while its running. If it doesnt stall, its probably got other holes.

Wouldnt cost much, would be easy to police. Would mean people having to have different cars. You can have your evo but its only going to have an inch and a quarter exhaust!

terbang

27th March 2006, 21:38

You can have your evo but its only going to have an inch and a quarter exhaust!

Much to the horror of all the boyracers I imagine after seeing the norm for pipes on their current cars.

ZeroIndex

27th March 2006, 22:04

I HAVE THE ANSWER!!!! All cars should have a system built into them (that is needed for the car to operate at all), that starts playing Barbara Streishand music as soon as the car reaches 107km/h. Now, the music I'm talking about is the type that is REALLY LOUD, but can only be heard inside the car... that would stop boy-racers...
...sorry to all the Barbara Streishand fans, for liking Barbara Streishand... I'll try forgive you :D

Hawkeye

27th March 2006, 22:25

Crikeys Meanie, ya should've taken his wheels off!

But a limited engine size aint a bad thing yeah. I've driven a 1600cc Nissan Sentra since I started driving, nothing bloody wrong with it.
Except it's rusting out now...

Time for a Caldina!!
And then a Buell!!

Totally agree. Recently bought a 1.8 caldina. Looked at the 2.0 but decided that the 1.8 would be better for my 17 year old. Not quite the power I'd prefer but for safety, it's ideal for the son. Reasonable acceleration without being extreme. (Thank god it was only the 1.8. Yesterday when I got the ticket, it could have been alot worse)......

Streetwise

28th March 2006, 09:54

ok it seams hat there are many ideas and how to slow people down, and i agree a blanket approach may end up just that way, all of us with restrictors added. imagen that a gsxr1000 k5 only alloud to do 100kph. mind you do they go faster than that , lol. i guess the real options are training and inforcement. 1 strike your out.

Lou Girardin

28th March 2006, 16:41

My mates younger than that control 30000 shaft HP 500 million dollar warship, but then could only drive a pissant 800cc ? blanket laws like that would just annoy people and they would still find way to go out and kill themselves and innocent people.

So airmen and naval ratings don't kill themselves on the road?
I seem to remember quite a few did/do.

Besides, it's not top speed that gets these clowns in trouble. It's the rate they accelerate at. Same with bikes.
Our sedate coupe is faster than a restricted Evo, but that Evo will be at 180 k's a long time before ours is.