Question of "Not being allowed to"

[Ms Piggy]

Well since I started on my wonderful journey into the world of 2 wheels I've met somne fabulous people :hug: However I've also met a few men who have said "I'd love another bike but my wife/partner/girlfriend 'won't let me'" <_<

I find this a really interesting comment and just wondered why anyone would wanna be with or get involved with someone who wouldn't give them the freedom to do something they love so much. I know there's lots of different reasons but, for me personally if I ever met a guy who said he 'wouldn't let me ride' my response would be to hop on my bike & ride away as fast as I could! :kick:

[DeanOh]

For me its not that she wont let me ride, in fact she's keen to get a helmet and 2-up. But im not allowed at this moment to spend money on a new/better bike. Like she says, "you will get a new bike, and then 6 mths later you will want something else, and whats wrong with wat you have ?".
Plus its hard to argue with the fact we have to spend cash for other things, like our impending wedding. :bash:
Priorities...new bike is low down at the moment. dammit.

[wkid_one]

ride away as fast as I could! :kick:
Within the confines of NZ speeding laws of course??? :msn-wink: :buggerd:

[DEATH_INC.]

Got a good mate like that.sold his bike to pay for stuff and isn't allowed another......at least for now.Been married for quite a few years,kids,mortage ect,pretty hard to walk (run) away from.......

[James Deuce]

The "not allowed" thing is bollocks. Either the wife is a harridan, or the bloke has "no balls".

Marriage is a supportive environment, not a prison of diminishing returns and antagonistic rules.

My wife, Heather, always gives other women who "won't let" their husband do something a very hard time. Been around long enough to learn that this goes both ways too, and met a few blokes who won't let their wife participate in something outside their ken.

If we disagree on something we discuss it, we don't just dismiss it out of hand.

[James Deuce]

For me its not that she wont let me ride, in fact she's keen to get a helmet and 2-up. But im not allowed at this moment to spend money on a new/better bike. Like she says, "you will get a new bike, and then 6 mths later you will want something else, and whats wrong with wat you have ?".
Plus its hard to argue with the fact we have to spend cash for other things, like our impending wedding. :bash:
Priorities...new bike is low down at the moment. dammit.

Your bike is 2 years old!

This sounds like healthy compromise, not total denial.

[Ghost Lemur]

The "not allowed" thing is bollocks. Either the wife is a harridan, or the bloke has "no balls".

Marriage is a supportive environment, not a prison of diminishing returns and antagonistic rules.

My wife, Heather, always gives other women who "won't let" their husband do something a very hard time. Been around long enough to learn that this goes both ways too, and met a few blokes who won't let their wife participate in something outside their ken.

If we disagree on something we discuss it, we don't just dismiss it out of hand.

I agree. My girlfriend wasn't keen on the idea of me getting a motorbike to start with. Understandable concerns like leaving my son's without a father, etc. But instead of dismissing my desires out of hand, we discussed it and laid some of her fears to rest. Of course to a certain degree her fears are justified, but life is fragile and uncertain anyway. All we can do is make educated desisions and protect ourselves as much as possible (wearing leathers etc).

Communication, understanding and willingness to compromise are all that's needed.

As for those who say "oh I'd love to get a bike but the missus wont let me", you'll find can be fitted into one of two categories. 1. They don't really want a bike and it's a cop out. 2. They're spineless kissass.

[Big Dog]

As for those who say "oh I'd love to get a bike but the missus wont let me", you'll find can be fitted into one of two categories. 1. They don't really want a bike and it's a cop out. 2. They're spineless kissass.
Total agreement here.

I have sold my bike for my kids before, but no woman that cannot respect my judgement is worthy of a major lifestyle change. If any woman told me it's me or it's the bike I would pack her bags for her. :finger: I would only grow to hate her and end up leaving her anyway, so why not keep the bike and savew a few days.

[SpankMe]

I've had to say thanks, but no thanks to a couple of girlfriends that just did not want to get on the bike.

Love me, love the bike.

[Big Dog]

They don't have to like the pillion seat or ride themselves but they MUST not begrudge me my bike.

[Ms Piggy]

Within the confines of NZ speeding laws of course??? :msn-wink: :buggerd:

Of course! And I'd have to get all my gear on 1st so I don't think it wouldn't quite have the dramatic impact I'd hope for! :rolleyes:

[mangell6]

Communication, understanding and willingness to compromise are all that's needed.

As for those who say "oh I'd love to get a bike but the missus wont let me", you'll find can be fitted into one of two categories. 1. They don't really want a bike and it's a cop out. 2. They're spineless kissass.

Well said GL. Currently I am the one who is stopping us (read me) from progressing on the bike front. However it doesn't stop my wife, of twenty five years, from going and playing in an open squash tournament this weekend nor riding her own bike to Napier and back (two weeks ago). She just wants to know where I will be going riding. :ride:

Mike

[Jackrat]

Amazing what some dudes will do for poontang huh!! :killingme
Known a couple of guys that married horrible critters that tryed that on.Nether marrige lasted long.
Not aloud doe'st make for good marriges.

[What?]

They don't have to like the pillion seat or ride themselves but they MUST not begrudge me my bike.
Egg Zactly.
I had four bikes in the shed when I met the now Mrs What?, and I still have four bikes in the shed. Likewise, Mrs What? has hobbies that I do not participate in. It's called space - something every good marriage needs some of.

[FROSTY]

Since baby bikie came along I refused to carry my (now ex ) wife on the bike with me.
We used to go on the bike a lot together and she doesn't ride.
My thinking is that if I have a big off my son is without 2 parents not just one.
Very fatalistic I know but hey reality is reality.

[Zed]

Well since I started on my wonderful journey into the world of 2 wheels I've met somne fabulous people :hug: However I've also met a few men who have said "I'd love another bike but my wife/partner/girlfriend 'won't let me'" <_<

I find this a really interesting comment and just wondered why anyone would wanna be with or get involved with someone who wouldn't give them the freedom to do something they love so much. I know there's lots of different reasons but, for me personally if I ever met a guy who said he 'wouldn't let me ride' my response would be to hop on my bike & ride away as fast as I could! :kick:I suppose that those individuals who are not in or have never been in a serious committed relationship with someone would ever completely understand this comment, therefore it's pointless trying to explain the reasoning behind it because it must be experienced to find out whether or not it would apply in your case!

Some things are far more important than bikes- people for instance. If you are not willing to sacrifice something important to you for someone else then you may never know true love? :hug:

Personally, if my wife decided that she was against motorcycles and wanted me to stop riding, then I would! Thankfully she is very considerate and encouraging when it comes to my riding...and I want it to stay that way :)


Zed

[riffer]

Hmmm. My wife has just kicked me out of the house and got a restraining order out on me so I guess my opinion doesn't really count but I would have to agree with Jim2 on this one.

[James Deuce]

Hmmm. My wife has just kicked me out of the house and got a restraining order out on me so I guess my opinion doesn't really count but I would have to agree with Jim2 on this one.

Oh no!

Need a hand with anything???

[sps996desmo]

it's sometimes a case of wanting to do it for the one you love.
"no greater love doth a man have, then to lay down his bike for the one he loves"
I know it sounds sick, but thats just the way it goes sometimes.
less fun then a :Pokey:

[Zed]

it's sometimes a case of wanting to do it for the one you love.
"no greater love doth a man have, then to lay down his bike for the one he loves"
I know it sounds sick, but thats just the way it goes sometimes.
less fun then a :Pokey:
John 15:13- Good one! :msn-wink:

[RiderInBlack]

it's sometimes a case of wanting to do it for the one you love.
"no greater love doth a man have, then to lay down his bike for the one he loves"
I know it sounds sick, but thats just the way it goes sometimes.
less fun then a :Pokey:
The big difference here is WANTING to do so, rather than being TOLD you HAVE TO. Was married to a "HAVE TO, but I'll do what I want". It lasted for 3 1/2 yeras before I got totally sick of it and told her to :finger: Lucky for me, we had no kids. That would have made it more difficult. As it goes I got the bike and she got the Pathfinder:Punk: and we lived happily devorced hereafter.

[DeanOh]

Hmmm. My wife has just kicked me out of the house and got a restraining order out on me so I guess my opinion doesn't really count but I would have to agree with Jim2 on this one.


Bugger!!! :mellow:

[riffer]

Oh no!

Need a hand with anything???
Well, we're talking at the moment. Best we can do at the moment. We'll see what happens.

Long story. I'll tell you about it one day mate.

[Big Dog]

Some things are far more important than bikes- people for instance. If you are not willing to sacrifice something important to you for someone else then you may never know true love?

[b][color=navy]Zed
But the point is How can you love someone so patently incpable of loving you for who you are?
If it's important to you they have three choices, participate, like it or lump it.

If anyone gives me a ultimatum they don't care about me only the image of me that they have created for themselves.

As stated people do come first.

I sold my bike for the kids once and would again.

I would sell it to fund an op for my pillion or some other such threat.

I will not today or ever sell a motorcycle, or other asset for that matter, just because someone else told me to.

Life and love are about compromise not domination to me, and that is more important than my bike.

[Big Dog]

Since baby bikie came along I refused to carry my (now ex ) wife on the bike with me.
We used to go on the bike a lot together and she doesn't ride.
My thinking is that if I have a big off my son is without 2 parents not just one.
Very fatalistic I know but hey reality is reality.
Same reason I want to get my pillion her own 6L and bike, I hate the thought of taking her pillion after we have kids, let alone tring to fund a 6L at during the diaper stage.

She loves the buzz, but due to a lack of understanding that comes from not having her own lic she makes some very dangerous decisions.

[Big Dog]

I suppose that those individuals who are not in or have never been in a serious committed relationship with someone would ever completely understand this comment, therefore it's pointless trying to explain the reasoning behind it because it must be experienced to find out whether or not it would apply in your case!

I beleive I have found my life's pillion and I still disagree with overgeneralisation based on your personal beliefs rather than global rules of attraction. :shake:

[Big Dog]

life's pillion
= She who is along for the ride. :ride:
+ She who makes the ride more fun. :ride:
+ She who makes decisions that affect us both. :o
+ She who accepts I will do the same. :sly:
+ She who shares responsibility for our wellbeing. :doh:
+ She who will be my pillion for the rest of the journey werever it may take us. :hug:

[Hitcher]

The great thing about riding is having a wife/partner/best buddy who loves riding too.

There are lots of selfish pursuits guys can enter into -- golf/cricket/rugby/carpentry/duck shooting/fly fishing/train spotting and motorbike riding could easily become just another one of these for some guys... In those circumstances it's easy to see why their partner could become a bit fraught!

[Angry Puppy]

In answer to the origninal question, I think one needs to look deeper than the statement of 'not allowed' that is being offered. I guess that for a lot of us guys it is easier to say to our mates that we are not allowed than to admit the truth, we can't afford it. Sure, you could stick it on the HP, but would you really be willing to submit you and the one you claim to love to a decrease in cashflow for what is to all intense purposes another toy? I would hope not.

WHat I am trying to say is that most guys will just say that they are not allowed rather than going in to a rather heavy (and probably inapropriate for the time ans place) conversation about school fees, savings, holiday funds, christmas and the like.

Personaly, Mrs Bloke says I can get a second bike, if I am willing to sell the car, because quite simply, we can't afford to keep and run 2 cars and 2 bikes.

Fazer Bloke

[James Deuce]

WHat I am trying to say is that most guys will just say that they are not allowed rather than going in to a rather heavy (and probably inapropriate for the time ans place) conversation about school fees, savings, holiday funds, christmas and the like.

Personaly, Mrs Bloke says I can get a second bike, if I am willing to sell the car, because quite simply, we can't afford to keep and run 2 cars and 2 bikes.

Fazer Bloke

Which is the the bloke being just as disrespectful to the wife, as the wife was to the husband, in the original premise of "not allowed". What a nice thing to do. Tell lies about the person you love, that make them look like an evil ogre because you'e too chicken to say you can't afford to buy a bike.

I was too scared to get another bike for 5 years after my big accident, and by then we had started on trying to have kids, which due to infertility issues ended up costing about $25k per kid. I had no issue saying I couldn't afford a bike to mates who asked about it.

We're uncovering some interesting attitudes in this thread.

My wife doesn't like riding or pillioning on bikes. In no small measure due to an idiot on a stolen bike that hit her when she was crossing the road and put her in a coma for a couple of days. Plus we now have to consider that our kids should probably have at least one parent around.

[Zed]

= She who is along for the ride. :ride:
+ She who makes the ride more fun. :ride:
+ She who makes decisions that affect us both. :o
+ She who accepts I will do the same. :sly:
+ She who shares responsibility for our wellbeing. :doh:
+ She who will be my pillion for the rest of the journey werever it may take us. :hug:
Have you married your pillion Big Dog?

[Coldkiwi]

For me its not that she wont let me ride, in fact she's keen to get a helmet and 2-up. But im not allowed at this moment to spend money on a new/better bike. Like she says, "you will get a new bike, and then 6 mths later you will want something else, and whats wrong with wat you have ?".
Plus its hard to argue with the fact we have to spend cash for other things, like our impending wedding. :bash:
Priorities...new bike is low down at the moment. dammit.

hehe, sorry to shuckle at your expense, but this is partially why i was keen to get my GSXR before i got engaged... you just never know :)

[jrandom]

Which is the the bloke being just as disrespectful to the wife, as the wife was to the husband, in the original premise of "not allowed". What a nice thing to do. Tell lies about the person you love, that make them look like an evil ogre because you'e too chicken to say you can't afford to buy a bike.

Some guys *do* use the "not allowed" thing as a copout. In my experience it's been because they simply fear or dislike the idea of riding a bike, or whatever it may be, and don't want to appear... what? Wimpy? I dunno. You know what I mean. It's rather sad, and it usually seems to be the vaguely unhappy types that have never forged any real inner existence for themselves.



due to infertility issues ended up costing about $25k per kid

Jeepers! Respect. And I thought *we* had it bad, getting pregnant unintentionally (no bad jokes about this please) three months after #1 was born, at a point where we were convinced that we couldn't afford any less than a 5 year gap between kids.



My wife doesn't like riding or pillioning on bikes.

As is probably usual, we know about, oh, ten or so guys that died on bikes, some closer to us than others. My wife is pretty twitchy about the subject. After my recent head injury, I did what the doctors tole me to (not my usual style) and stopped riding for a couple of weeks, mainly out of respect for her concerns. It's all about give-and-take.

In my case, I wasn't riding a motorcycle when we got married, so I can hardly argue that she's trying to change or control me if she doesn't like the bike. Fair's fair. Fortunately she's happy enough to live with it, although recent comments re. stunting indicate that I may not get much sympathy if I fall off...

[scumdog]

I'm lucky, Mrs Scumdog likes 'bikes and the lifestyle and makes a damn good pillion ( and has her full 6 licence).
Also likes the hot rod/street machine scene so she is absolutely no help in controlling my spending on wheels - mind you I like the wine she buys so I call that a fair balance :shifty:
If you get the perfect woman (like I did) more power to you, if the only chink in her personality is the "I'd rather you didn't ride" well, I guess you would have to figure a way around it.
celticno6, Sorry to hear your woes, been down that road, can be tough getting over it and if the split is final you end up with "baggage" you never knew you had and it takes time to get over it (I can't tell you how much time, it's been 5 years for me and I ain't there yet :(

[Hitcher]

Jeepers! Respect. And I thought *we* had it bad, getting pregnant unintentionally (no bad jokes about this please) three months after #1 was born, at a point where we were convinced that we couldn't afford any less than a 5 year gap between kids.
I discovered a term the other day "Irish twins" used to describe siblings born in the same calendar year!

[jrandom]

I discovered a term the other day "Irish twins" used to describe siblings born in the same calendar year!

Ah, we didn't quite manage THAT, but they *were* born 363 days apart. Birthdays on the 18th and 16th of the same month.

[James Deuce]

Ah, we didn't quite manage THAT, but they *were* born 363 days apart. Birthdays on the 18th and 16th of the same month.

Holy crap! Respect to thee brother!

Thanks for your comments above - funny thing is after all the hassle and indignity we eventually conceived both kids naturally after making a decision to give up on the process. Funny how stress can affect things.

[SPman]

If anyone gives me a ultimatum they don't care about me only the image of me that they have created for themselves. - Yep

I sold my bike for the kids once and would again. Yep - me too

I would sell it to fund an op for my pillion or some other such threat. - Yep, if I had a pillion

I will not today or ever sell a motorcycle, or other asset for that matter, just because someone else told me to. - Not without a VERY good reason

Life and love are about compromise not domination, to me, and that is more important than my bike. - hmmmmmm - maybe
We can but live our life to the best of our ability,but you have to control your own life - having someone else control it is not living!

[Ghost Lemur]

Ah, we didn't quite manage THAT, but they *were* born 363 days apart. Birthdays on the 18th and 16th of the same month.


hehe.. My son's were born on the 27th and 26th of the same month. If Sebastian (youngest) had of waited 9:45 hours they would have been exactly a year apart. :D

[Zed]

...you have to control your own life - having someone else control it is not living!
Excluding childhood and old age years when others control our lives, one might have approx. 50yrs where they have the liberty to be in control of their own life...but from what I have experienced, many a person when given such liberty is more out of control at times!

Take away the various authorities in our lives that are in "control" and things would get much worse in our society and world.


Zed :innocent:

[FzerozeroT]

But you do need the illusion of control. Otherwise you don't feel like you have any power to change your life and so why get out of bed?
Society would be even worse off with more control.

Education, not control.

[celticyankee]

Celtic Sea Lily, good question, one I've asked meself without really finding an answer that made sense to me...........

[Zed]

Society would be even worse off with more control.
Agreed...and there is MUCH more control coming- you mark my words. You guys in gun circles should know what I'm talking about! :devil2:


Zed said it 26/4/04

[riffer]

celticno6, Sorry to hear your woes, been down that road, can be tough getting over it and if the split is final you end up with "baggage" you never knew you had and it takes time to get over it (I can't tell you how much time, it's been 5 years for me and I ain't there yet :(
Thanks scumdog. I'm happy to report that due to a lot of talking and stuff (unmentionable) I'm now back at home and we're looking forward to sorting a whole load of stuff out.

Not quite ready to give up on marriage number 2 just yet!

[claire]

I'm in total agreeance with Mrs Scumdog. In our house we have both motorbikes & street machines & a pre 49 is on the cards in the future. Makes it a lot easier if your both into the same things when it comes to bikes & cars. I've met a lot of woman who can't understand why their husbands can get excited over the latest mod to their car believe me. (Must order those lake pipes for my car!!!)

When people say they are "not allowed" to do something its a pretty poor excuse don't you think. If you want something bad enough you'll get it eventually & its a pretty selfish person who would stand in your way.

[Ghost Lemur]

Thanks scumdog. I'm happy to report that due to a lot of talking and stuff (unmentionable) I'm now back at home and we're looking forward to sorting a whole load of stuff out.

Not quite ready to give up on marriage number 2 just yet!

Good to hear things are being worked out. A friend of mine is in a similar position, he did something (doesn't matter what) and was kicked out. Thankfully, him and his wife are still talking, and working on it. They haven't got to the stage where he's back at home yet, but that's only a matter of time if they keep up the communicating.

It is a perfect illustration of how a marriage (or any relationship for that matter) works. Obviously there has had to be comprimises and a willingness to understand the others pov on both sides. If one of you hadn't been willing to do that then there is no way things could be worked out.

The same goes for ultimatums/demands. One sides is saying I don't care enough to try and understand, here's what I want to happen, take it or leave it. To me that says they don't want to be with you in the first place. They're either trying to push you away, or, are only interested in the person you "could" be if you do exactly as they want.

I have generally found that people like that (both women and men) are never happy, and can never have a substantial relationship. They are always pushing to the point where either the other person leaves or they get bored of molding you and move onto someone else.

Damn I'm in a ranty mood.

[riffer]

Good to hear things are being worked out.
Thanks for the kind words mate.

Both Gini and I are incredibly passionate, creative people, with the capacity to completely go off the deep end at times, particularly when we decide to ignore doctors advice on certain things I don't (and won't) go into here...

Suffice to say, we're now following doctor's advice, and looking after each other now.

BTW we went for a ride today on the bike. First time for Gini on the back of the bike. Kind of a way of building up the trust again in the relationship.

[Ms Piggy]

Thanks for the kind words mate.

Both Gini and I are incredibly passionate, creative people, with the capacity to completely go off the deep end at times, particularly when we decide to ignore doctors advice on certain things I don't (and won't) go into here...

Suffice to say, we're now following doctor's advice, and looking after each other now.

BTW we went for a ride today on the bike. First time for Gini on the back of the bike. Kind of a way of building up the trust again in the relationship.
Good news matey! :2thumbsup I'm a sucker for happy endings! I'm really glad you've been able to work things out. :yes:

[Ms Piggy]

But the point is How can you love someone so patently incpable of loving you for who you are?
If it's important to you they have three choices, participate, like it or lump it.

If anyone gives me a ultimatum they don't care about me only the image of me that they have created for themselves.

Life and love are about compromise not domination to me, and that is more important than my bike.

Thanks for all your intersting & varied comments on this guys & gals. It certainly opened up a lot more discussion that I thought it would! In the end though I think what BD has said sums it up for me too.

Life is generally about compromise & I guess it also depends if you are in a relationship and then start riding or meet some gorgeous thang & are already riding and then there are bigger things to consider if you have kids added into the equation!

My question was more directed at men who say the "aren't allowed" and to me that's control & domination. Heck, it didn't work for Hitler so why would it work in a relationship!

Cheers All :niceone:

Whhoaaaa...this is deep! :beer:

[Big Dog]

Have you married your pillion Big Dog?
Not yet. Getting her a safe mode of transport (ie road legal) and getting us both out of debt are higher on the priority list at this stage as we both agree that you do it right because you do it once.

I expect to be asking later this year.

[FROSTY]

Thanks for the kind words mate.

Both Gini and I are incredibly passionate, creative people, with the capacity to completely go off the deep end at times, particularly when we decide to ignore doctors advice on certain things I don't (and won't) go into here...

Suffice to say, we're now following doctor's advice, and looking after each other now.

BTW we went for a ride today on the bike. First time for Gini on the back of the bike. Kind of a way of building up the trust again in the relationship.
Hey good luck mate . :rolleyes:
I split up from my ex a year odd back. Turns out one reason was I DIDDN'T want her on my bike. Aint women strange creatures?

[SPman]

..
Damn I'm in a ranty mood. Yeah, but its True!

[Ms Piggy]

Aint women strange creatures?

I find men incredibly difficult to figure out! Am I missing something or not??? :eek5:

[Ms Piggy]

Yeah, but its True!

Yup - good words GL :niceone:

[Wonko]

I find men incredibly difficult to figure out! Am I missing something or not??? :eek5:

Trun up, bring :beer: , be naked, what more does a man need? (Apart from two wheels of course, goes with out saying)

:cool:

[James Deuce]

Trun up, bring :beer: , be naked, what more does a man need? (Apart from two wheels of course, goes with out saying)

:cool:

Exactly - men are thoroughly uncomplicated.

Women are the tricky ones.

[MadDuck]

I find men incredibly difficult to figure out! Am I missing something or not??? :eek5:

LMFAO....It doesnt get any easier does it Celtic? ...I have come to conclusion they are not meant to be "figured out". Just nod and smile at the right places and all is well :whistle: and the naked thing only works for one night usually.

Just to put another angle on the topic...heck NO bloke will ever tell me to give up my bike or any of my other mad pastimes. Take me as I am or not at all..... hmmmm maybe why me still single :eek5:

[Timber020]

One of my ex's used to joke that I had 6 girlfriends but she was on only one that I didnt try to make go faster. She was pretty good with the bike thing only to later on start having nightmares after watching me work. She basically said "Its either your job or me"
Hell I know I could love my job for another 10 years.......
My present girlfriend (who I plan to do alot of miles with) does have a problem with my work and bike but knows that they are to much a part of me for me to give up. So she supports them kinda although I am thinking of buying her a bike for her birthday. Problem is I would worry to much about her, talk about double standards!

Dont know if I should buy her one (or give her one of the 7 I have) or not. Would hate to see her get hurt on the road.

[FROSTY]

I find men incredibly difficult to figure out! Am I missing something or not??? :eek5:
You sure are--its easy really--we have one track minds is all ya need to know--The hard bit is figguring out what track we happen to be on at the time :Oops:

[Lou Girardin]

I find men incredibly difficult to figure out! Am I missing something or not??? :eek5:

Feed 'em and f@#k 'em, what's to figure out? ;)
Lou

[Ms Piggy]

Feed 'em and f@#k 'em, what's to figure out? ;)
Lou

That's you say!

I think it's when you trying and get them to do something other than feeding or f@#king that the shit hits the fan. :confused:

Still I do like the simple things in life...like men ;)

[KATWYN]

That's you say!

I think it's when you trying and get them to do something other than feeding or f@#king that the shit hits the fan. :confused:

Still I do like the simple things in life...like men ;)


I think they are really rather easy to understand and quite predictable.

(although the actual thought patterns are another thing to understand)

Nothing complicated about that, as you say it really is quite simple.

I also think woman aren't that complicated either (as men say), a switched on man knows exactly how to understand and treat a woman -

[James Deuce]

I think they are really rather easy to understand and quite predictable.

(although the actual thought patterns are another thing to understand)

Nothing complicated about that, as you say it really is quite simple.

I also think woman aren't that complicated either (as men say), a switched on man knows exactly how to understand and treat a woman -

I find terrified works for me.

[pete376403]

This has always explained the difference fairly well for me

[Ms Piggy]

Hmmmmmm....dunno if I'm that convinced yet.

Maybe wot I should ask is what is the key to a "successful" relationship, there seem to be lots of people on this forum who have partners/spouses they have been with for the long term.

And do you all believe that monogamy (ie. one partner long term) is a realistic expectation to have?

Ooooooooo....getting deeper :D

[James Deuce]

Hmmmmmm....dunno if I'm that convinced yet.

Maybe wot I should ask is what is the key to a "successful" relationship, there seem to be lots of people on this forum who have partners/spouses they have been with for the long term.

And do you all believe that monogamy (ie. one partner long term) is a realistic expectation to have?

Ooooooooo....getting deeper :D

Yes. (message too short error - what does this mean? Hmmm)

[Ghost Lemur]

Hmmmmmm....dunno if I'm that convinced yet.

And do you all believe that monogamy (ie. one partner long term) is a realistic expectation to have?

Having been in both open and monogamous relationships I'd have to say that it's very much up to the couple. Each sort has its own pro's and con's. As long as both people are happy with the way it is it works. The times it doesn't is when one person wants to be open and the other doesn't.

I have meet couples in open relationships who have been together for a long time (ie 10 years) who would never betray each other and are extremely happy. It's certainly not for everyone, and if it's not for you don't go out with someone for whom it is. Cheaters/players are either cowards who want to be in an open relationship or more likely egotistical control freaks who want their cake (a monogamous partner) and to eat it too (fool around themselves). I think there can be as many different successful ways of having a relationship as there are different people.

What is important is knowing who you are and what you want. Then and only then can you find someone who will compliment/complete you.

Jackrat - That's a feature of the forum software to stop one worded posts and alieviate people spamming forums.

[aff-man]

Well i'll put it this way my ex-gf (of a little over 2 years) although wasn't particularly interested in bikes but if i said i needed to go for a ride so couldn't make it to this or that she would understand. She also didn't give me shit (likw my folks did) when i had an off all she did was bring me pretzels and beer and let me wallow in the misary of a crashed bike. :Punk: .
As to previous posts about if you love somebody will you give up anyting for them ect ect ect i think that only applies to people whi start biking while in a relationship. If someone you met really doesn't approve of biking then you won't get to know them due to difference of opinion. And if the topic comes up later in the relationship wouldn't they know how much pain it wou :confused2 ld cause you to give it up?????

[jrandom]

Maybe wot I should ask is what is the key to a "successful" relationship, there seem to be lots of people on this forum who have partners/spouses they have been with for the long term.

Be best friends for starters. Otherwise, why would you want to be around each other for so long? And if you don't both believe in sticking to your word and putting the partnership first instead of yourself yer doomed.



And do you all believe that monogamy (ie. one partner long term) is a realistic expectation to have?

Sure. Worked for me so far. It's very realistic if both parties want to do it!

I suspect that our current social climate of selfishness and instant gratification does have an influence on relationship 'failure' rates.

Marriage is a worthwhile social institution... I don't know why people count it as a 'failure of a long-term relationship' when people 'break up' who never even committed to each other in the first place.

Oh, and that reminds me - to all you women out there who are happy to get pregnant off some random guy and be a solo mum by choice - a hearty F#*K YOU on behalf of your emotionally-screwed-up fatherless offspring. Do the world a favour and use a condom next time. The children don't deserve the fallout.

[James Deuce]

Be best friends for starters. Otherwise, why would you want to be around each other for so long? And if you don't both believe in sticking to your word and putting the partnership first instead of yourself yer doomed.




Sure. Worked for me so far. It's very realistic if both parties want to do it!

I suspect that our current social climate of selfishness and instant gratification does have an influence on relationship 'failure' rates.

Marriage is a worthwhile social institution... I don't know why people count it as a 'failure of a long-term relationship' when people 'break up' who never even committed to each other in the first place.

Oh, and that reminds me - to all you women out there who are happy to get pregnant off some random guy and be a solo mum by choice - a hearty F#*K YOU on behalf of your emotionally-screwed-up fatherless offspring. Do the world a favour and use a condom next time. The children don't deserve the fallout.

Me like um you. You have um healthy attitude Kemo Sabe.

[KATWYN]

This has always explained the difference fairly well for me

Lol, that pic always cracks me up. And yes one uncomplicated button
for the man...and like I say a "switched" on man who knows what hes doing
knows all those other woman buttons and how & when they work. Just like
a tradesman who is really good at his job.

[KATWYN]

For lasting R/ships - Compromise & looking for positives not dwelling on negatives of a person

[Hitcher]

Successful relationships? Different strokes for different folks. There are no silver bullets.

Mrs H and I have been together for about 19 years and married for 17. First and foremost we're best mates. I love her to bits and am amazed and delighted that each day she loves me back. She sometimes also lets me ride her Marauder...

[jrandom]

She sometimes also lets me ride her Marauder...

See? See what I mean about suggestive Suzuki model names?

[duckman]

See? See what I mean about suggestive Suzuki model names?
I'm not sure I'd ever refer to any part of my G/F or activity as .... TLRing ?? :lol:

[jrandom]

I'm not sure I'd ever refer to any part of my G/F or activity as .... TLRing ?? :lol:

It's just the cruisers.

I mean, "she lets me ride her Marauder"? Suggestive, that is.

And if Mrs Hitcher started wanting to straddle Hitcher's Intruder, I would be obliged to leave the room. Perhaps it's fortunate that he doesn't have one.

[duckman]

It's just the cruisers.

I mean, "she lets me ride her Marauder"? Suggestive, that is.

And if Mrs Hitcher started wanting to straddle Hitcher's Intruder, I would be obliged to leave the room. Perhaps it's fortunate that he doesn't have one.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh ma God, Stop before I piss my pants!! hahahaha

Thats brilliant.

[Hitcher]

And if Mrs Hitcher started wanting to straddle Hitcher's Intruder, I would be obliged to leave the room. Perhaps it's fortunate that he doesn't have one.

I guess it's fortunate that I don't have a "Fat Boy" either??

I think Jrandom needs some psycotherapy...

[jrandom]

I guess it's fortunate that I don't have a "Fat Boy" either??

Yebbut we all know about Harley riders, don't we. I was just referring to the weird Suzuki model name thing. At least they don't use all those 'orrible faux-Italian names like they do for cars.



I think Jrandom needs some psycotherapy...

"He was always bad..."

[Ms Piggy]

Ha ha ha! You peeps crack me up!! :laugh: :lol: :killingme

[Ms Piggy]

Oh, and that reminds me - to all you women out there who are happy to get pregnant off some random guy and be a solo mum by choice - a hearty F#*K YOU on behalf of your emotionally-screwed-up fatherless offspring. Do the world a favour and use a condom next time. The children don't deserve the fallout.

Whoa! That's a HUGE gross genralisation matey! My Mum was a solo parent on the DPB & it wasn't b/c she slept with a random guy it was b/c the loser (my Father, well sperm donor) f@#cked off before I was born & then whinged about having to pay $10- a week in child support!

C'mon mate I thought you were a bit more cleverer than that :wacko: Or is this a personal knowledge you have of women deliberately getting preggers to get the thousands they dole out to solo parents?

[KATWYN]

Wow thats a brave comment to make JR. I think I
would run for cover after saying that. It may not
have been a "choice" as the alternative they may
have faced (in their opinion) may have been veiwed
(by them) as murder.

But hey, the alternative is one less fatherless screw up
in the world..right?

[RiderInBlack]

"He was always bad..."
... since the day he was born." Gee your frist name is not Eddy, jrandom:Pokey: ("let's do the time warp again":Punk: ).

[James Deuce]

Whoa! That's a HUGE gross genralisation matey! My Mum was a solo parent on the DPB & it wasn't b/c she slept with a random guy it was b/c the loser (my Father, well sperm donor) f@#cked off before I was born & then whinged about having to pay $10- a week in child support!

C'mon mate I thought you were a bit more cleverer than that :wacko: Or is this a personal knowledge you have of women deliberately getting preggers to get the thousands they dole out to solo parents?

I know where he's coming from, and I think Fathers are massively under valued in NZ in particular, and Anglo-Saxon Christian culture in general. The Father/provider, Mother/nurturer model is only part of the story.

[James Deuce]

Wow thats a brave comment to make JR. I think I
would run for cover after saying that. It may not
have been a "choice" as the alternative they may
have faced (in their opinion) may have been veiwed
(by them) as murder.

But hey, the alternative is one less fatherless screw up
in the world..right?

It is better to have an opinion than nothing to say at all.

I'm sensing a history in those comments that we aren't privvy to.

[KATWYN]

It is better to have an opinion than nothing to say at all.

I'm sensing a history in those comments that we aren't privvy to.

Yes, I think that came across loud and clear.

[Ms Piggy]

I know where he's coming from, and I think Fathers are massively under valued in NZ in particular, and Anglo-Saxon Christian culture in general. The Father/provider, Mother/nurturer model is only part of the story.

Hey I totally agree with you Jim - in an ideal world families would have good male & female role models but just b/c a child is Fatherless it doesn't make them a screw...I'm ok aren't I!! :confused: And I'm sure there are plenty of screwed up kids who had both a Mum & Dad as well. And as Katwyn has said, not all women who are a solo parent feel they had a choice, my Mother certainly didn't & was a damn brave woman to bring up me & my older sister on her own and carve out a career for herself. Yay for my Mum :Punk:

I think Dad's are really important - I regret not having had a reliable Dad & I know it has affected me...heck maybe I would have got into bikes sooner if I had, who knows aye. :scooter:

[James Deuce]

Hey I totally agree with you Jim - in an ideal world families would have good male & female role models but just b/c a child is Fatherless it doesn't make them a screw...I'm ok aren't I!! :confused: And I'm sure there are plenty of screwed up kids who had both a Mum & Dad as well. And as Katwyn has said, not all women who are a solo parent feel they had a choice, my Mother certainly didn't & was a damn brave woman to bring up me & my older sister on her own and carve out a career for herself. Yay for my Mum :Punk:

I think Dad's are really important - I regret not having had a reliable Dad & I know it has affected me...heck maybe I would have got into bikes sooner if I had, who knows aye. :scooter:

I don't think he means your situation at all.

And you're mostly ok ;) - We needs to do coffee sometime - you aren't getting out enough :)

[Ms Piggy]

I don't think he means your situation at all.

And you're mostly ok ;) - We needs to do coffee sometime - you aren't getting out enough :)

:) Heh heh...is it showing? Cabin fever! :scooter:

Hey JR - wot do ya mean?? I know I can rely on a response from you :yes:

[jrandom]

Hey JR - wot do ya mean?? I know I can rely on a response from you

Precisely what I said, and no more. There is a sub-group of women who get pregnant intentionally with no particular plans for involving the father beyond conception and occasional association thereafter. I'm certainly not including truly accidental pregnancies here, and my thoughts were not primarily directed at the cost to the welfare system, although that *is* a problem.

For that matter I know many solo parents who aren't in that position due to choice, and I applaud their bravery and hard work.

The fact *does* remain that a fatherless upbringing disadvantages a child (although 'fatherless' is a hundred times better than a violent, abusive home). I despise the selfishness inherent in a decision to have a child with no regard for that.

A decent marriage with a mother and father prepared to go the long haul should be a basic prerequisite for a sane and conscious decision to have kids. If things don't always go to plan later on, well, nobody's perfect. We just do our best.

And any guy who gets a woman pregnant and skips out would get a re-arranged face from me if I ever ran into him.

Has your opinion of me gone down, CSL? Hopefully it's obvious now that I wasn't referring to anyone in the situation that your mother experienced. And I'm glad you agree that Dads are important...

[riffer]

I know where he's coming from, and I think Fathers are massively under valued in NZ in1.
Tell me about it mate.

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

...but unfortunately, as Nick Smith found out, that path leads to criminal conviction.

so, I'll just keep my mouth mostly shut on this subject, and accept my lot.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.

[Ghost Lemur]

Tell me about it mate.

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

...but unfortunately, as Nick Smith found out, that path leads to criminal conviction.

so, I'll just keep my mouth mostly shut on this subject, and accept my lot.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.


Yeah the family court system is shocking.

At present I'm still involved in a custody case with my ex. The boys have live with me since I left her. She caused CYPS to be involved when we were together. Has known psychological problems. Was physically abusive in front of children. Been ingaged to 4 different guys since I left (close to 2 years ago) and hasn't seen the boys since xmas (including missing their b'day's at the end of March).

And yet even with her parents, cyps (who said if I get full custody then it's case closed as their concerns were solely related to her abilities), etc all in full support of me it's still been almost two years and $7k (thanks taxpayers for legal aid) later and there is still no end in sight. Every time I get a new letter of a new court date I call my lawyer to see if this is going to be it and find it's just another paperwork filing.

And in the meantime my son's, gf, family, and I are kept in constaint limbo of uncertainty as there is nothing stopping things still going against me.

Don't pity my son's for not seeing her though, my gf of one year and counting is more of a mother to them than they ever had with her. And she's there for the long haul not just when she feels like it.

Besides having a maternal figure in their life, the only thing that concerns me if my ex deciding she wants to pop in and out of their life every six months or so. I would rather she just dissapeared off the face of the earth (which see seems to have done recently) and let Jay (current gf) get on with being their mother. Otherwise they have all this uncertaintly as to why their "mum" doesn't want to see them, etc. They deserve to be in a loving nurturing enviroment, and I'm just lucky I've now found someone with whom I not only have a fantastic relationship with (best I have EVER had), but also someone who 100% loves my son's as much as if she had given birth to them herself.

Once the custody is finally sorted, it'll probably be time to go through the adoption nightmare (we've discussed it and whether or not we get married - both of us come from broken home and have mixed feeling about marriage - we'd both like to ensure the law see's her as their mother just as the boys do).

I'm ranting again I can tell. :lol:

[James Deuce]

Yeah the family court system is shocking.

(we've discussed it and whether or not we get married - both of us come from broken home and have mixed feeling about marriage - we'd both like to ensure the law see's her as their mother just as the boys do).

I'm ranting again I can tell. :lol:

Rant away. Jay will need to adopt the boys, but that can be arranged. Be aware that the biological mother will need to do something physically heinous to be denied access to the lads, emotional torture doesn't seem to rate. :(

[Holy Roller]

It's not just the anti father bias but the anti family bias that messing up our country. CYPS can just take children out of a family as happened to a mate because the neighbour made up blatent lies as proved later (much later) but resulted in the marriage splitting over the strain. There was no come back to remedy the situation no concequences for the actions of the worker she was just "following orders".
The stats of mariages lasting are rather dismal these days, I'm blessed with a good wife and family more the grace of God than anything else I guess. My dad split in the 60s mum did a good job bringing us kids up by herself, went without heaps for us, But I wasn't the easiest to keep in line.... one screwed up fatherless kid..... wasn't so common in my days but it appears to be the norm these days. And the government isn't helping with its anti family policies being promoted from a childless she nazi ....just me raving again..... :o sorry

[Hitcher]

Good well argued opinions here folks. A compelling thread approaching "classic" status!!

[James Deuce]

Number one son is beautifully behaved (as much as a 3 year old can be) and the only "symptom" of son number two arriving is bedtime rages. We had to register with CYFS and Plunket to be allowed to use the necessary discipline to get him to bed at night. It's just about all over now, but at its peak there was lots of very loud screaming from number one son. Not because we were beating him mind, but because he felt left out because he was being put to bed - lots of psych stuff going on. We had to register in case the neighbours rang the police. We were advised to by a paediatrician and a couple of Heather's workmates from the Hutt Hospital kid's ward and we were both stunned to find out that not only did the process exist, but some B**stard had already tried to dob us in.

[Big Dog]

(although 'fatherless' is a hundred times better than a violent, abusive home)....
Well said old bean.

I don't live with my kids anymore because my ex was short tempered often violent around me and to me, sometimes unprovoked and I could no tlive with the fear it would happen to them one day.

On the other hand she is a sane rational considerate loving mother in my absence.

If it were not for the violence I would still be there loveless or not.

on the other hand I pay $730 a month for the priveledge of not getting to see my children for fear that if she knew I knew where she lived she would skip town again and she might not be so easy to find this time.

Don't even get me started on our archaic police / court system that see's police laugh at the mere suggestion my bloody lip and loose teeth came from a caste iron frying pan, or clock, or.... Three reports no charges need I say more. And the courts still do not want to know about a fathers rights unless there is proof ie it has to have already occured regularly enough to collect evidence. that abuse has occured, even where the child would be better provided and cared for in the fathers custody.

Please note: I have never hit her or any other partner. For that matter it is now 19 years since I hit another living creature in anger (playfighting and sparring don't count)

:shutup:

[White trash]

Number one son is beautifully behaved (as much as a 3 year old can be) and the only "symptom" of son number two arriving is bedtime rages. We had to register with CYFS and Plunket to be allowed to use the necessary discipline to get him to bed at night. It's just about all over now, but at its peak there was lots of very loud screaming from number one son. Not because we were beating him mind, but because he felt left out because he was being put to bed - lots of psych stuff going on. We had to register in case the neighbours rang the police. We were advised to by a paediatrician and a couple of Heather's workmates from the Hutt Hospital kid's ward and we were both stunned to find out that not only did the process exist, but some B**stard had already tried to dob us in.

Been "dobbed" to CYFS before about 4 years ago with my number one daughter. After much interogation and checking refrences they decided it was unfounded.

my (then) wife was an absolute wreck and I tried to be philosophical about the whole thing. 'Till about 9 months later when one of our friends let it slip who had dobbed us. Seems everyone knew except us. When I found out who it was (and it was completely malicious!) I went round to sort things out for myself.

Aint it funny how CYFS see things as guilty 'till proven inocent. All in the best interests of the kids though so i'll tolerate it.

Shame they didn't move their lazy arses re: Corral Burrows :ar15:

[Ms Piggy]

Has your opinion of me gone down, CSL? Hopefully it's obvious now that I wasn't referring to anyone in the situation that your mother experienced. And I'm glad you agree that Dads are important...

Ahhhhhhh - so there is logic behind your angry rant ;) All is good mate & now that I understand where you are coming from I can see what you mean. :)

[Ms Piggy]

I could tell you a lot about the family court system in this country, and the bias against men in general, and fathers in particular.

Some fathers don't even get given the choice to be hugely active members of their children's lives.

Not that I'm slagging any of you guys off but, apparently there has been research done into men who say that even though a lot of men state that they "don't have access" to their kids, most of them don't really want it when it comes down to it.

Now don't all jump down my throat.

It's just there is research about it...nothing I can put my finger on right now! :rolleyes:

[KATWYN]

Gosh it seems there are a lot of dobbers out there.

I wonder how hard it is for child and young person
services to sift out the stirrers and exaggeraters
from the genuine concerns.

I don't envy their job.

[Hitcher]

Gosh it seems there are a lot of dobbers out there.

I wonder how hard it is for child and young person
services to sift out the stirrers and exaggeraters
from the genuine concerns.

I don't envy their job.

Amen to that, sister. The two extremes of this spectrum -- dobbers and ignorers -- are almost as bad as each other. Unless you feel personally threatened there is no excuse for dobbing without first trying to ascertain the facts about what's going on and why.

[claire]

You definately have a point there Katwyn and the sad thing is when they do get it wrong the consequences are sometimes extreme. Not something I would want to do for a living.

[Ms Piggy]

Amen to that, sister. The two extremes of this spectrum -- dobbers and ignorers -- are almost as bad as each other. Unless you feel personally threatened there is no excuse for dobbing without first trying to ascertain the facts about what's going on and why.

Yeah I agree with you Katwyn & Mr H...seems to me that NZers are pretty much cowards when it comes to actually communicating with their neighbours to find out what's going on. I find it staggering how after an event people are often heard to say "We all knew that something was wrong but..." :thud:

[James Deuce]

Sorry Hitcher,Katwyn, and CSL I can't agree with your statements. I think they are far to general..

[Ms Piggy]

Sorry Hitcher,Katwyn, and CSL I can't agree with your statements. I think they are far to general..

So what would you say then? I'm just going on what I've seen on the telly & heard & read in the newspaper, it isn't by any means an educated or fully informed opinion...hmmmmmm, sounds a bit like how a lot of people come their opinions on the Treaty :shutup: Ooopsss, getting off the topic sorry.

[Big Dog]

I Think in general terms it is very easy to agree with you but your statements above are too general and open ended to agree with beyond the principle.

[James Deuce]

I Think in general terms it is very easy to agree with you but your statements above are too general and open ended to agree with beyond the principle.

Possibly, though at the end of the day I may have to lean in a different direction.

[KATWYN]

Jim, Big dog can you elaborate further on some specifics?
I feel I have missed something.

[Ms Piggy]

Jim, Big dog can you elaborate further on some specifics?
I feel I have missed something.

Maybe they're just messing with our minds! :shifty:

[FROSTY]

Something has gone awry with our country. Why is a family financially rewarded for breaking down ? Where is the encouragement for families to stay as a family unit?
Where are the positive male role models for those children with a mum raising alone?
Why should a mother be a better parent just because she is a she?

[johno]

There seems to me to be a lot of intolerance out there! One persons experience of the world, or the "teachings" they have subscribed to, horribly generalise everything, and are the root of bigotry. Count your blessings, but life aint perfect. A lot of people push shit uphill with all sorts of outcomes of past events, relationships and ye olde sex drive being prime. I have detected some smugness out there for those people where things have worked out. Cut the others a bit of slack, don't begrudge them a bit of help because of your "fault" analysis. Go ride and all is well.

[Ms Piggy]

There seems to me to be a lot of intolerance out there! One persons experience of the world, or the "teachings" they have subscribed to, horribly generalise everything, and are the root of bigotry. Count your blessings, but life aint perfect. A lot of people push shit uphill with all sorts of outcomes of past events, relationships and ye olde sex drive being prime. I have detected some smugness out there for those people where things have worked out. Cut the others a bit of slack, don't begrudge them a bit of help because of your "fault" analysis. Go ride and all is well.

Good points Johno - I think basically it's that smugness & intolerance you speak of that stuffs it up every time. :bash: Snobbery, predjudice, superiority complex, arrogance - whatever you like to call it. We all have it in certain areas of our lives I reckon, some in larger doses than others. But when it is part of your everyday dealings with certain sectors of our society it creates barriers. Why can't we all just get along? :yes:

:grouphug:

[MikeL]

Why can't we all just get along? :yes:

:grouphug:

Because life would be sooooooo boring.

It's people's little foibles (snobbery, arrogance, hypocrisy etc) that make social interaction endlessly fascinating. The trouble starts either when you start taking them too seriously, or when those people start taking themselves so seriously that they become convinced that they have the answers not only for their own lives but for yours as well. And when that gets translated into moral, religious or legal commandments and prohibitions, watch out!

[KATWYN]

I have detected some smugness out there for those people where things have worked out. Cut the others a bit of slack, don't begrudge them a bit of help because of your "fault" analysis. Go ride and all is well.

Interesting comment, how can people know when things have worked
out for others? and what is a life that has worked out?

"fault" analysis and not helping people or looking down on them because
of it, is pretty disgusting. I hate to say it, but I have said it before, those
sorts of people need to experience something bad in their lives to develop
empathy for others.

[James Deuce]

So what would you say then? I'm just going on what I've seen on the telly & heard & read in the newspaper, it isn't by any means an educated or fully informed opinion...hmmmmmm, sounds a bit like how a lot of people come their opinions on the Treaty :shutup: Ooopsss, getting off the topic sorry.

You've already answered your question in the Hikoi thread - media puts the spin on news stories they want to present.

My wife works in paediatrics, and has seen the power on NZ's social services in action, many, many times. As has already been mentioned, names, dates, and times net you a criminal conviction. I would be stupid to mention specific cases. However I will say that in all cases where social services have been involved the male in the parental unit has paid a large cost. Particularly in unsubstantiated child abuse claims that are later proved to be false, the relationship between husband and wife never recovers. They always end up separated, and the male usually loses his job, and access to his children permanently. Even though the accusation was false.

Because of that background my wife and I are terrified of them - they can ruin your life at the stroke of a pen, and most social services case workers are unqualified and over worked.

If I appear "smug" or "perfect", let me assure you than I am neither.

[Ms Piggy]

Because of that background my wife and I are terrified of them - they can ruin your life at the stroke of a pen, and most social services case workers are unqualified and over worked.

If I appear "smug" or "perfect", let me assure you than I am neither.

Nah Jim I already knew you were perfect anway! :D

Yes it's very scary to think of the power one overworked, under qualified person has. It's something I think about a lot b/c of my chosen career path.

[Ms Piggy]

Because life would be sooooooo boring.

It's people's little foibles (snobbery, arrogance, hypocrisy etc) that make social interaction endlessly fascinating. The trouble starts either when you start taking them too seriously, or when those people start taking themselves so seriously that they become convinced that they have the answers not only for their own lives but for yours as well. And when that gets translated into moral, religious or legal commandments and prohibitions, watch out!

Oh yeah - that's right! :Punk: I guess I'm just a little too idealstic for my own good some days!

[Big Dog]

Jim, Big dog can you elaborate further on some specifics?
I feel I have missed something.
I was probing to see if maybe my theory that jims reluctance to agree on a blanket level may have to do with the fact that it is easy to agree with what you said because it is so general, but for those of us with real life experience they are difficult to agree with because it was so general.

Like all things intended for the masses these things are thrown together with the best intentions athen ruined by beuracracy gone mad. Triplicate this, if then.

You can't just make a rule and then expect it to fit every case.

CYF's and other such agency are relatively new and focus on a relatively new field, a field in which there are no easy answers.......

eg.
Premise one.
In theory their jobs are very easy.
Follow x procedure to get y result.
Record steps taken.
Record result.
Next case.

Premise two.
Their job's are complicated by a lot of factors not the least of which is the fact they are still humans dealling with humans.


In theory their jobs are very hard.
No because
Follow x procedure to get y result.
Record steps taken.
Record result.
Next case.
Their job's are made easier because the fact is they are still humans dealling with humans.
As you can se by the above example of two sides to the same argument using exactly the same facts, if you keep it general you can argue any direction you like without ever having a point or a conclusion.

Neither argument was wrong in principle.
Without first hand experience neither can be discredited.
Either can be easily beleived depending on the medias projection at the time.

Neither is completely true.
Neither is correct for every case.
Neither is false.

It is easy to agree to either given no personal experience.
It is difficult to agree to either with personal experience.

Or for a second example, who was the best astrologer you ever read?
Would it be fair to say they were rarely wrong?
Would it also be fair to say they were rarely specific?
Were some months to vague too make sense of but someone else you knew made a perfect fit with it in hindsight?
Well thats what I mean keep it general and it is easy for someone who is not aware of a better conclusion to agree.


For a third example.
Who is the best politician that you ever knew?
Did they ever draw a line in the sand and say don't cross it?
No all the best pooliticians you have never heard of or they have never been pinned down to one policy.
(keep in mind George Dubya is a crap politician but a good leader :bash: .)

[johno]

[QUOTE=KATWYN]Interesting comment, how can people know when things have worked
out for others? and what is a life that has worked out?

Point taken, I retract from the phrasing, but you know I mean the perception of it. Was a bit pompous eh?
Agree also with the rest of your statement.

[toads]

It's not just the anti father bias but the anti family bias that messing up our country. CYPS can just take children out of a family as happened to a mate because the neighbour made up blatent lies as proved later (much later) but resulted in the marriage splitting over the strain. There was no come back to remedy the situation no concequences for the actions of the worker she was just "following orders".
The stats of mariages lasting are rather dismal these days, I'm blessed with a good wife and family more the grace of God than anything else I guess. My dad split in the 60s mum did a good job bringing us kids up by herself, went without heaps for us, But I wasn't the easiest to keep in line.... one screwed up fatherless kid..... wasn't so common in my days but it appears to be the norm these days. And the government isn't helping with its anti family policies being promoted from a childless she nazi ....just me raving again..... :o sorry

Totally agree with you here, in fact I couldn't have said it better

[danb]

Well since I started on my wonderful journey into the world of 2 wheels I've met somne fabulous people :hug: However I've also met a few men who have said "I'd love another bike but my wife/partner/girlfriend 'won't let me'" <_<

I find this a really interesting comment and just wondered why anyone would wanna be with or get involved with someone who wouldn't give them the freedom to do something they love so much. I know there's lots of different reasons but, for me personally if I ever met a guy who said he 'wouldn't let me ride' my response would be to hop on my bike & ride away as fast as I could! :kick:


For me is trying to con my parents into letting me get a bike. Hate to think what the chances for me are but some day I will have to let the cat out of the bag. Being still at home and I dont want to get kicked out just yet either as my job wont go so far to pay for the bill's. :bash: :bash: :doh: :doh:

We shall see...

[Ms Piggy]

For me is trying to con my parents into letting me get a bike. Hate to think what the chances for me are but some day I will have to let the cat out of the bag. Being still at home and I dont want to get kicked out just yet either as my job wont go so far to pay for the bill's. :bash: :bash: :doh: :doh:

We shall see...

Hmmmm...yeah this is true. My Mum has always been supportive of decisions, well she doesn't actually any say now anyway b/c I'm 32! Is it the "safety" aspetc of it that makes them anti?

[bungbung]

...Is it the "safety" aspetc of it that makes them anti?

Mothers, they're universal... "You'll kill yourself on that thing!"

[Ms Piggy]

Mothers, they're universal... "You'll kill yourself on that thing!"

It's cos you'll ALWAYS be their baby...mo matter what your age :wacko:

[danb]

Mothers, they're universal... "You'll kill yourself on that thing!"

ummm... I think it will be my dad that will be the biggest one to con. He used to ride himself in his younger years. He gave it up becuase he throught it was too dangerious. Mum well I dont know how she will react. I dont blame them really but hey life is full of danger :crazy: (Well unless you are a couch potato or something, Even then the roof could cave in :yeah: .....)

[Motu]

My mother bought me my first bike - $60,and I paid her off at $5 a week - a big hunk of my $18 pay packet,$5 board,50c to fill up the Bantam...money to burn! When the bike was payed off I gave her $10 a week.

She may have worried about me,but the only complaints were about the noise I made with open exhausts coming home in the early hours of the morning.

I thought parents let their kids run wild these days?

[riffer]

Mothers, they're universal... "You'll kill yourself on that thing!" My mother STILL says that - and I'm 37 now! You'd think after 21 years she'd give up on that line of argument.

of course she said that about the fags and dope too. I guess since I've long given tham the flick she's hoping it'll work on the bikes too.

[toads]

My kids have all endangered their lives with all sorts of risk taking behaviour, I believe that it is better to make informed decisions and minimise the risk, I have encouraged their dreams, tried to steer them in the safest direction with it too, in the case of young son (16) I have made sure his bike is up to wof standard and safe, and he has a brand new helmet, and a good leather jacket, other than constantly nag him the only thing I can do is hope and pray sensible riding behaviour and the human instinct to survive at all costs will carry him through, it's impossible to "keep them safe" idiocy will never be outlawed!

[Big Dog]

We must be about the only species that never at any point says to the kids, "right fly!"

Birds push their babies out of the nest to teach them to fly.
Goats abandon their young for a day or two then two or three etc

Male sheep are child abusers, They attack their young (with increasing ferocity) to teach them how to butt back and how to identify danger.

How come as the "most evolved species" we lack this instinctive desire let our young spread their wings?

[James Deuce]

We must be about the only species that never at any point says to the kids, "right fly!"

Birds push their babies out of the nest to teach them to fly.
Goats abandon their young for a day or two then two or three etc

Male sheep are child abusers, They attack their young (with increasing ferocity) to teach them how to butt back and how to identify danger.

How come as the "most evolved species" we lack this instinctive desire let our young spread their wings?

I don't think we lack it, I think it has been edited out of western culture.

It used to be that your Dad took you to your first pub brawl (brawl not crawl you poofters), taught you how to crash a car properly and how leer lecherously at women (a very dangerous passtime). Of course the PC brigade have banned that type of behaviour so we're out of luck now.

[Big Dog]

It used to be that your Dad took you to your first pub brawl (brawl not crawl you poofters), taught you how to crash a car properly and how leer lecherously at women (a very dangerous passtime). Of course the PC brigade have banned that type of behaviour so we're out of luck now.
Hell yeah!

My first pushbike arrived as a frame and a beer crate of parts. "When you are old enough to assemble it, you are old enough to ride it." Consequently two days later I was a menace to society. Three almost major accidents (that would have made millions out of Funniest home movies)after that I learnt how to fit brakes.

Consequently I have grown fairly adept at using the diagnostic equipment in my arse on all sorts of vehicles both two and for wheels, to detect even the slightest weekness in brakes, tyres, suspension.... and at fitting or repairing al;l manner of things.

[scumdog]

Mothers, they're universal... "You'll kill yourself on that thing!"

My motto about the dangers of riding motorbikes? Ships are safe in the harbour - but that's not what ships are for.

I hope I never have to eat me words :2thumbsup

[Big Dog]

My motto about the dangers of riding motorbikes? Ships are safe in the harbour - but that's not what ships are for.

I hope I never have to eat me words :2thumbsup
So you have never seen Pearl Harbour then?

Perhaps befitting a motorcycle forum maybe you better add that you need to be ready to "put to sea" whenever a japanese vehicle approaches. :lol:

[danb]

So you have never seen Pearl Harbour then?

HAHA nice point even though its besides the point. :killingme