No burqas when riding, ok...

[Streetwise]

Whats up with this country,, its a joke. People who move here from another land should i think take on our way of life,, I was listening to the radio today and it seams that the muslims are getting upset that the police no longer want people to wear berkas while driving, Makes sence to me what about you,,, :moon:

[Lou Girardin]

Are the cops going to object to Sikh headgear too, or is it just ragheads that are a problem?
I have bigger problem with Chinese women who wear cotton gloves when driving. Ever tried evasive steering while wearing them?

[Streetwise]

mmm no i havnt, cotton gloves thats fucked. slippery as hell,

[Ixion]

Perhaps the objection to bhurkas lies in their restriction of vision?

[Streetwise]

actually i must say im sick to death of this sort of shit going on,,, If you move here do what we do, mmmmm im angry

[Streetwise]

Perhaps the objection to bhurkas lies in their restriction of vision?


Yes i understand why, But i think there is a bigger picture here and we are al having to bow to this crap.

[MSTRS]

Absolutely agree with it. And in a court room etc. In fact - everywhere. They are the ultimate 'hoodie' and whatever the reason, their purpose is to conceal. Ban the fucken things. The women affected can wear a headscarf like other religions do. Or go back where they came from.

[Colapop]

What about driver lisence testing? Why do they need to hire official translators? If you can't speak english (the predominant language in NZ) then how the fuck can you read it? 99% of road signs are in English and the rest are in Maori. If you can't read the test paper then how the f*ck are you going to be able to read road signs? ie. No Entry.

[Ixion]

Actually, it is Muslim women who wear the head scarf I think the headscarf is called habjib. Not all Muslim authorities concern that Islam requires the wearing of a bhurka or equivalent. The actual requirement is that the woman modestly cover her hair and face.

It seems to me that there is a tradeoff here. In the countries where the bhurka is reuired wear for women, they would not be allowed to drive at all. So, here, if they want the greater freedom, they should accept the responsibility that goes with it.

(Women of some other religions and races also wear headscarves of course. As indeed did respectable married women when I was a wee lad. Times change)

[madboy]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Don't like it, move out.

But streetwise is right - the PC brigade!!!

[Marmoot]

"We deal with criminals who will very quickly cotton on to the fact that it's to their advantage to be driving around wearing burqas and that will happen because that's the sort of people we deal with.


Mr O'Connor said there may need to be a law change to prevent people from wearing items of clothing while driving that would seriously impede their vision.

Based on those two quotes reported in NZHerald, full-face helmets should be banned too.
1. Surely, there were more robberies done by persons wearing full-face motorcycle helmets than burqas.
2. Full-face helmets do take up a bit of field-of-vision, and most likely to be more than a burqa would take. Full-face helmet thickness range between 2-5cm from your face while burqa is thinner than 1mm and sticks to the face without covering the eyes of the wearer (which means it is out of field of vision)

If they want to ban burqas, they'd better make the reason right first rather than risking opposition. These law-makers we have are hasty young ones indeed. Much haste and carelessness I sense. Weak is the Force within them. Jerking around their knees are always.... :wacko:


Edit: Anyone knows if driving a car while wearing helmets (or, let's make it "full-face motorcycle helmet") illegal? I'm concerned about my safety at times.

[MSTRS]

Actually, it is Muslim women who wear the head scarf .....
(Women of some other religions and races also wear headscarves of course. As indeed did respectable married women when I was a wee lad. Times change)
I was thinking of Brethren with my reference to other religions.
In our 'more enlightened' society fashion dictates dress more so than any religious mores

[madboy]

Edit: Anyone knows if driving a car while wearing helmets (or, let's make it "full-face motorcycle helmet") illegal? I'm concerned about my safety at times.I think it is illegal. We used to have to remove our helmets between rally stages when we were touring on public roads again.

[Marmoot]

I think it is illegal. We used to have to remove our helmets between rally stages when we were touring on public roads again.

Thank's Madboy.

Personal opinion: I honestly failed to see the logic in that when we're allowed to wear it in Motorcycle. What restricts vision in one would restrict vision in the other, No? :weird:

[aff-man]

what about those stooopid visors you see some asian woman wearing... they cover thier whole face and the edge surley cuts down your periferal (sp) vision surley...

Been almost taken out by them once or twice.

[Ixion]

..

Edit: Anyone knows if driving a car while wearing helmets (or, let's make it "full-face motorcycle helmet") illegal? I'm concerned about my safety at times.

Certainly not illegal, but likely to attract the attention of Mr Plod. I actually drove thus (in a cage of course) for some weeks years ago. Got stopped twice, basically out of puzzlement 'Wotcha fink yer doin , then?". Much the same response as we used to get from cops if we wore a crash lid on a bike "Fink yer names Surtees d'ya then ? So how fast you planning to be goin to need that fing then ? "

[Sniper]

Welcome to New Zealand, abide by our laws. If you don't like it............ FUCK OFF

[madboy]

Personal opinion: I honestly failed to see the logic in that when we're allowed to wear it in Motorcycle. What restricts vision in one would restrict vision in the other, No? :weird:You ever tried wearing a helmet in a car? Not a lot of headroom. Worse when you've got a full roll cage in there, but at least it's usually padded so you don't scratch the helmet!

I can see arguments for and against in a car. The theory of a helmet is to protect where there is no other protection on a bike, whereas in a car you don't generally need as much protection cos there's a bit of car to go through before your head *usually* touches anything. Why potentially restrict someone's breathing and vision, and give them a higher chance of cervical injuries from the added weight of a helmet on their head if you don't really have to? But then you could say that about an airbag with a potential for minor injuries from that. Better than wearing a steering wheel though.

[MSTRS]

What people seem to be missing here is not the vision thing but the fact that these women are totally covered up. Their religion (or form of it) insists that they reveal no part of themselves to any man who is not their husband. So how are they supposed to have a photo taken for their NZ driver's licence for a start??

[Marmoot]

You ever tried wearing a helmet in a car? Not a lot of headroom. Worse when you've got a full roll cage in there, but at least it's usually padded so you don't scratch the helmet!

Not if you're driving a Honda Accord....
Wouldn't it be safe if everyone wears full leather and helmets?
We'll probably reach that ZERO FATALITIES that the government always yearn for.

In fact, I think that's the only solution for 100kph speedlimit. 5-point seatbelts, rollcage, fire retardant suits and helmets for everybody. Babies are not exempt.

[Marmoot]

What people seem to be missing here is not the vision thing but the fact that these women are totally covered up. Their religion (or form of it) insists that they reveal no part of themselves to any man who is not their husband. So how are they supposed to have a photo taken for their NZ driver's licence for a start??

I suppose if they unwrap for driver-licensing photo then it should be ok?
Or would you still be unsatisfied and would press on insisting they unwrap everywhere, therefore banning burqas from NZ?

The question then, if you ban something from someone else's religious belief, won't we (NZ) be degrading ourselves to the same level as middle-eastern countries where religious intolerance is rife?
If so, where is the so-called 'freedom' that we Western (read: "more-civilized) civilization boast?

If CanWest (C4) can broadcast Bloody Mary episode and a lot of kiwibiker members agree "if you don't like it, look away" in the reason for freedom-of-expression, then burqa-wearing women should be able to apply the same principle "if you don't like it, look away" as long as they stay legal (remove their burqa when applying for driver licensing). Banning burqas would be in contradiction with the said principle, No?

I fail to see that..... :devil2:

Edit: This is argument's sake only. I don't have anything against or for burqa, but some people's behaviour and remarks are simply contradicting to the values that they preach.

[Ixion]

People would still drive themselves into creeks and rivers and drown in the cage.

Incidentally does anyone know the reaosn why full 5 point harness is not legal for road use ? (I believe this to be the case - correction welcomed). Seems totally fatuous.

[Marmoot]

Incidentally does anyone know the reaosn why full 5 point harness is not legal for road use ? (I believe this to be the case - correction welcomed). Seems totally fatuous.

So 4-point is legal?

[Ixion]

I suppose if they unwrap for driver-licensing photo then it should be ok?
Or would you still be unsatisfied and would press on insisting they unwrap everywhere, therefore banning burqas from NZ?

The question then, if you ban something from someone else's religious belief, won't we (NZ) be degrading ourselves to the same level as middle-eastern countries where religious intolerance is rife?
If so, where is the so-called 'freedom' that we Western (read: "more-civilized) civilization boast?

If CanWest (C4) can broadcast Bloody Mary episode and a lot of kiwibiker members agree "if you don't like it, look away" in the reason for freedom-of-expression, then burqa-wearing women should be able to apply the same principle "if you don't like it, look away" as long as they stay legal (remove their burqa when applying for driver licensing). Banning burqas would be in contradiction with the said principle, No?

I fail to see that..... :devil2:


Well , there is a difference if the objection is based on a restriction of visibility. If drivers cannot properly see where they are going, then that is a hazard to all road users.

I do not know if they *do* adversely affect vision, since I have never worn one. Looking at them it seems that they would. It seems an objective matter that could easily be put to the test by the appropriate authorities. But presumably the polcie objection *is* based on visibility (since I cannot think of any othe reason), and they may have put it to such a test ?

If there are no functional problems I for one could not care less. People can wear whatever they want to (or not want to, for that matter).

(Gotta say in passing, I always reckon those habjib head scarves are dead sexy)

[Madness]

Make them ride Camels!!!
If the police are concerned that criminals will get the idea to wear Burkha's to avoid identification, maybe going on telly talking about such concerns isn't such a good idea. More likely a traffic conviction has been overturned somewhere due to an identification issue, a lot happens in our courts that we don't seem to hear about, like rape convictions.

[MSTRS]

I suppose if they unwrap for driver-licensing photo then it should be ok?
Or would you still be unsatisfied and would press on insisting they unwrap everywhere, therefore banning burqas from NZ?
No, cos it doesn't end there. The licence photo is a means of id so they would have to uncover everytime to prove they are that person. If this wasn't a problem, where is the need to wear it at all?? Ban them, fullstop.

[Coyote]

Why don't we ban fuckin' christmas while we're at it? Bah, humbug

[Madness]

Why don't we ban fuckin' christmas while we're at it? Bah, humbug

You've got my vote!!!

[Coyote]

You've got my vote!!!
I plan to be in government by 2007

[Krusti]

If they are ugly make them keep wearing them. More dangerous being distracted by a butt ugly woman...:whistle:

[OMG]

Absolutely agree with it. And in a court room etc. In fact - everywhere. They are the ultimate 'hoodie' and whatever the reason, their purpose is to conceal. Ban the fucken things. The women affected can wear a headscarf like other religions do. Or go back where they came from.
Does that mean Maori should be rulling the country, and if white people don't like it, they should go back to where you came from?

Thanks Marmoot for getting some sense back into this thread

[Motu]

People would still drive themselves into creeks and rivers and drown in the cage.

Incidentally does anyone know the reaosn why full 5 point harness is not legal for road use ? (I believe this to be the case - correction welcomed). Seems totally fatuous.

The only reason I can think of is the standard 3 point belt complies to a standard,and so do the mounting points.Most racing equipment (eg,stainless hoses) doesn't need to comply with say a DOT or EU standard,but road equipment does.If ALL racing harnesses went through a EEC,ECC EU??? standard then I guess they would turn around that rule.

[Streetwise]

Does that mean Maori should be rulling the country, and if white people don't like it, they should go back to where you came from?

Thanks Marmoot for getting some sense back into this thread


I was born here and value my way of life, It is slowly being strangled by people that dont give a fuck about this country, Most of the imports are more unstrustworthy than the imported 50cc scooters, Ill bet you are thinking im a racist, But guess what im not im just sick of the hairy fairy govt that we have running this country. To many people that offer no benifit to new zealand come here and demand there rights, I say fuck off,

[zaq]

what about those stooopid visors you see some asian woman wearing... they cover thier whole face and the edge surley cuts down your periferal (sp) vision surley...

Been almost taken out by them once or twice.
What exactly are those visors?? I've seen two people... perhaps going for a masquerade party?

[u4ea]

not sure wot those chicks are wearing.as you say,cant be good for perifials tho.

[kickingzebra]

higher chance of cervical injuries from the added weight of a helmet on their head
Cervical injuries? Gee whizz, a babies head can only just fit out the hole, how the hell is a helmeted adult head going to swing down that far (presumably through the steering wheel) and cause Cervical injuries? EG, to do with the Cervix??

Not really being pedantic, but that word picture is Ridiculously funny at best, and disturbingly kinky at worst!! Good laugh, cheers!!

Oh by the way, The Burkha is a symbol of subservience to a regime that disallows the wearer any rights.
No problem with head coverings, but I get a bit unsure when people cover there face.

[scumdog]

What people seem to be missing here is not the vision thing but the fact that these women are totally covered up. Their religion (or form of it) insists that they reveal no part of themselves to any man who is not their husband. So how are they supposed to have a photo taken for their NZ driver's licence for a start??

Be handy - only one licence needed for all the females in the household - how is anybody ever going to know WHO exactly is drivng when they're stopped by police??

"Yep, I'm XXXXXX, my licence is at home but you can check, I do have one"

Meanwhile their mother/sister is saying the same thing on the other side of town.

[Ixion]

Could get the same issue with two brothers or two sisters, though, often siblings look alike enough to pass as one another. $150 fine for not carrying licence isn't it?

Could always ask them to provide a signature if in doubt. And if real doubt exists, call a chicky-cop to check 'em out.

[scumdog]

Does that mean Maori should be rulling the country, and if white people don't like it, they should go back to where you came from?

Thanks Marmoot for getting some sense back into this thread

And if Moriori were still around they would be able to say the same to the Maori........it's pointless going down THAT road BUT if you go to another country accept it and its present laws/customs status quo, - there's too much of 'the tail wagging the dog' in New Zealand, not good.

[Shadows]

Everybody should have one of these

[surfchick]

Are the cops going to object to Sikh headgear too, or is it just ragheads that are a problem?
I have bigger problem with Chinese women who wear cotton gloves when driving. Ever tried evasive steering while wearing them?

there might be secret sticky goo on the steering wheel-you never know :psst:

[Streetwise]

Everybody should have one of these


Yes i agree :niceone:

[u4ea]

Yes i agree :niceone:
yep.:headbang:

[Marmoot]

Everybody should have one of these

And I suppose the same should be applied to our kiwis overseas in countries with different languages, such as Dubai, Saudi, China, Japan, Korea, Hongkong, and such?
I've never seen them being booted, though......... :weird:


And, in regards to 'cervical injuries' as result of wearing helmet, DAMN I MISSED THAT ONE :killingme

[Marmoot]

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Don't like it, move out.

I see some european-camp in Saudi.............why they don't do what saudis do and wear burqas there?

[u4ea]

I see some european-camp in Saudi.............why they don't do what saudis do and wear burqas there?
do we take our overcrowding,diseases......exepting helen...............guns and extremist beleifs with us overseas???????????

[Motu]

I have bigger problem with Chinese women who wear cotton gloves when driving. Ever tried evasive steering while wearing them?

They probably work better than the sheepskin steeringwheel cover...I love those,like a fox terrier dog paddling as you furiously keep turning the wheel and still go straight ahead.

Those Chinese woman with the white cotten gloves - they are the ones with the Tweety Bird sun shade stuck on the driver's window I think....

[u4ea]

:shutup: :shutup:
They probably work better than the sheepskin steeringwheel cover...I love those,like a fox terrier dog paddling as you furiously keep turning the wheel and still go straight ahead.

Those Chinese woman with the white cotten gloves - they are the ones with the Tweety Bird sun shade stuck on the driver's window I think....
hers one for ya..recently moved house and took my 4 cats with me.happily escaping outa there enclosures i ended up with cats on my knee and o god...4 an hour.coud"ve quite happily wrapped them round the steering wheel that day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ixion]

I see some european-camp in Saudi.............why they don't do what saudis do and wear burqas there?

That issue nearly became an international incident a while ago. US army camp in Saudi. Saudi authorities "asked" (well, it is their country after all) that female US troops, when outside the camp (ie, in the city) should wear "modest" clothing, covering them from neck to knee (not bhurka).And, female troops not to drive cars when not on duty (cos Saudi women not allowed to drive). US Army initally agreed, then some GI Joanna started kicking up a merry stink. Reckoned it was their God given right to parade around in halter tops with their tits hanging out anywhere on God's good earth. And drive there too.

Big fuss in US press, diplomatic exchanges at highest level etc. Not sure what happened in the end, hope the Saudis stuck to their guns (metaphorically speaking). Fair enough I reckon, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[u4ea]

That issue nearly became an international incident a while ago. US army camp in Saudi. Saudi authorities "asked" (well, it is their country after all) that female US troops, when outside the camp (ie, in the city) should wear "modest" clothing, covering them from neck to knee (not bhurka).And, female troops not to drive cars when not on duty (cos Saudi women not allowed to drive). US Army initally agreed, then some GI Joanna started kicking up a merry stink. Reckoned it was their God given right to parade around in halter tops with their tits hanging out anywhere on God's good earth. And drive there too.

Big fuss in US press, diplomatic exchanges at highest level etc. Not sure what happened in the end, hope the Saudis stuck to their guns (metaphorically speaking). Fair enough I reckon, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
did a short stint in TF a few moons ago and joined as a peacekeeper.if diplomacy means keeping the peace and not stirring the sauce,in that situation i woudve complied.:Oi: war shoudnt be about anarchy but humanity.sadly,the goose always dies:Playnice:

[Shadows]

That issue nearly became an international incident a while ago. US army camp in Saudi. Saudi authorities "asked" (well, it is their country after all) that female US troops, when outside the camp (ie, in the city) should wear "modest" clothing, covering them from neck to knee (not bhurka).And, female troops not to drive cars when not on duty (cos Saudi women not allowed to drive). US Army initally agreed, then some GI Joanna started kicking up a merry stink. Reckoned it was their God given right to parade around in halter tops with their tits hanging out anywhere on God's good earth. And drive there too.

Big fuss in US press, diplomatic exchanges at highest level etc. Not sure what happened in the end, hope the Saudis stuck to their guns (metaphorically speaking). Fair enough I reckon, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

So, just so I'm clear....... at home they aren't allowed to drive, but now they are over here driving is allowed?
Well they can take off their bedsheets and tea towels then, can't they?
Fucking hippocrates.

[Shadows]

And I suppose the same should be applied to our kiwis overseas in countries with different languages, such as Dubai, Saudi, China, Japan, Korea, Hongkong, and such?
I've never seen them being booted, though......... :weird:


And, in regards to 'cervical injuries' as result of wearing helmet, DAMN I MISSED THAT ONE :killingme

I haven't seen a T-Shirt like you speak of but yeah I would have to say that it makes sense.
However I think you will find most self respecting Kiwis would make the effort unless just there on holiday.

[scumdog]

Could get the same issue with two brothers or two sisters, though, often siblings look alike enough to pass as one another. $150 fine for not carrying licence isn't it?

Could always ask them to provide a signature if in doubt. And if real doubt exists, call a chicky-cop to check 'em out.

$55, Fails to Produce drivers Licence

Cheaper than $400 for not having one - and being forbidden to drive until they get one.

BTW Cervical IS used in reference to neck injuries - i.e. "Injury to C2" means injury to 2nd cervical (neck) bone.

So save your laughter guys and feel embarrassed at not knowing THAT.

[spudchucka]

Are the cops going to object to Sikh headgear too, or is it just ragheads that are a problem?
I have bigger problem with Chinese women who wear cotton gloves when driving. Ever tried evasive steering while wearing them?
Apparently its do with identification of drivers. A photo licence is obviously useless for identification if the face can't be seen. It has nothing to do with discriminating against a particular sector of the community.

[u4ea]

thanks for that scumdog,even i was worried.............thought being out in the elements was good for the health............:spudflip:

[Oscar]

Whats up with this country,, its a joke. People who move here from another land should i think take on our way of life,,

So are you Maori?

[u4ea]

Apparently its do with identification of drivers. A photo licence is obviously useless for identification if the face can't be seen. It has nothing to do with discriminating against a particular sector of the community.
exactly,if i went over there i would have to cover up to follow their laws so they should follow ours.they have freedom of speech in nz so they could try exerting some free will.those women have been enslaved under religios laws for soo long its tragic.nz laws are based off orthidox religion but we are waking up at least!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

[MSTRS]

Does that mean Maori should be rulling the country, and if white people don't like it, they should go back to where you came from?

Thanks Marmoot for getting some sense back into this thread
FYI - I was born in NZ. Real big assumption on your part as to what 'race' I am. Many Maori (for instance) do not buy into the Treaty industry etc, just as many paler-skinned NZers agree with the claims (not just because it is the PC thing to do).
I think Marmoot is playing Devil's Advocate & fair enough too - shows an understanding from both sides. BUT in the case of the Bhurka 'custom'....leave it in the country(s) that expect it. Those countries expect 'our' women to respect their customs, at least in part. In this country men and women are deemed equal and since the Bhurka is a symbol of women's subservience, it has no place here.
I say again....Ban the damn things.

[Smorg]

Does that mean Maori should be rulling the country, and if white people don't like it, they should go back to where you came from?


Ummmmmmm......:kick: :kick: :kick: :slap: Idiot

[ManDownUnder]

hang on - hold up...

THEM and US.... that's always a good starting point. Why make it THEM and US? Here's a radical departure - who cares?

Focus on the basic set of requirements required to uphold law. If it means catering to the reasonable sensitivies of others so be it. Gender, religion, etc - whoopdy la.

We're doing it alreay - and rightly so. Cavity searches at the airport are (rightly) done by someone of the same gender. But it goes both ways. You come into the country with drugs up your arse - expect to have a cavity search, don't claim it impinges on your moral code.

As per the Berka debate. You want a licence - fine. It's a reasonable thing that you can be identified when needed by the appropriate authorities, but those authorities should not use those powers in a way that humiliates or degrades.

Your driver's licence should have your face on it it - that's the law. No Berka in the photo. But if showing that photo is somehow degrading - keep it sacred! Put it somewhere special, put it in a black silk purse of it's own. Put value on it and give it discretion - don't just chuck it in the glove box where kids will find it and take the piss.

If required by the police to give a positive ID, do it in the POlice car, or if that's not acceptable, go to the nearest cop shop, and do it dicreetly.

Needs CAN be accommodated - it's not hard. Just put some thought into it, and put some value on the needs of the other. Those enforcing the law should respect the sensitivity of showing the face of a woman who wears a Berka, but so the person wearing a Berka should also be sensitive to the requirements of the law.

Why is this so hard?

[MSTRS]

hang on - hold up... THEM and US.... that's always a good starting point. Why make it THEM and US? Here's a radical departure - who cares?.......Why is this so hard?
But...but... bu- that makes too much sense for us red-necks to cope with.
If logic should be applied, then since these women wear this thing and DON'T drive in 'their' country, then why should they expect to drive here, yet still wear etc...?

[u4ea]

But...but... bu- that makes too much sense for us red-necks to cope with.
If logic should be applied, then since these women wear this thing and DON'T drive in 'their' country, then why should they expect to drive here, yet still wear etc...?
....because they know us kiwi woman were the first to be allowed to vote and theyre just arn:t aware we don"t throw hot oil on our ladies for speaking up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!unless its the rite temperature of course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MSTRS]

....because they know us kiwi woman were the first to be allowed to vote.....
...and wasn't that just the beginning of the end for a normal, sensible society?:devil2: ...sheesh, next 'they' will be expecting roles in upper management, government and so on. Where will it end???:cry:

[u4ea]

:Pokey:
...and wasn't that just the beginning of the end for a normal, sensible society?:devil2: ...sheesh, next 'they' will be expecting roles in upper management, government and so on. Where will it end???:cry:
i hate equality,it means i have to go to work and pay bills................would much rather be on a cool bike site all day..........................

[Marmoot]

I think Marmoot is playing Devil's Advocate & fair enough too - shows an understanding from both sides.

A bit of correction there, it's not about Devil's advocate. :oi-grr:

I'm all up for requirements for drivers not to wear veils, etc.

BUT, with the excuse of 'impending field of vision'? C'mon, have you ever tried to wrap a shirt on your head and only allow your eye parts looking out? It's not as much impending vision as a motorcycle full-face helmet.
I'm just Sick and Tired of this government's knee-jerk reactionist and making such half-baked legislations every fortnights.

IF they are paid hundreds of tax-payer's hard-earned dollars per annum to make legislation, then THEY BLOODY WELL MAKE A GOOD AND ROBUST LEGISLATION, not some legislation that even a kindergarten teacher can tear up to shreds.

Again, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST/FOR ANY FRIGGIN BURQAS, BUT I DO HAVE THINGS POLITICIANS WITH HOT AIR THAT STINKS :pinch:

May I remind you all just a bit of recent examples:
- recent taxi/bus driver legislation that needs repairing?
- Noise legislation that could not be implemented?
- council bylaws that contradicts nationwide law (auckland brothel bylaw, anyone?)
- dog laws made just after a few mauled kids got reported in NZHarold, not before.
- immigration laws that changes everytime NZHarold reported something (yesterday we ban chinese, today we ban middle easterns, tomorrow maybe we have too much pommy, etc)
- pregnancy tests for islanders coming here, oh damn it contravenes human rights and blatantly embarassing...
- and the list goes on and on and on...

[MSTRS]

:Pokey:
i hate equality,it means i have to go to work and pay bills................would much rather be on a cool bike site all day..........................
....or on your knees scrubbing the kitchen floor, and making sure your man has his pipe, slippers & newspaper waiting for when he gets home. "Make yourself comfortable dear. I'll give you a call when your dinner is on the table".....
.....and not a bloody bhurka in sight.

[MSTRS]

Sensible as usual, Marmoot. The right laws for the right reasons eh?

[Marmoot]

Sensible as usual, Marmoot. The right laws for the right reasons eh?

thanks.....that's exactly my point.

[skelstar]

Sunglasses screw your peripheral vision a fair bit too...we gonna ban those in cars too?

Fuck that...Im not going to live in a police state and thats what this country is legislating its way towards at the moment. I thought bikers were a bit more open minded than this?

Get real people...Burkas/headscarfs='go home'...I mean come-on?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Edit: Anyone knows if driving a car while wearing helmets (or, let's make it "full-face motorcycle helmet") illegal? I'm concerned about my safety at times.

dunno if its illegal but when we were young one of our mates was such a crap driver (in his Mums Mini 850 powerhouse, four up) that we all wore our crash helmets... and gave him a running commentary. (90 left, tightens.... that sort of stuff).

He developed into quite the nervous type after a while.

[Insanity_rules]

Your all infidels and Mohammed will send you all to hell........... LOL
I've yet to see a muslim woman on a motorcycle (I just got a funny mental pic of that) in a Berkah.

I say each to their own.

[Marmoot]

dunno if its illegal but when we were young one of our mates was such a crap driver (in his Mums Mini 850 powerhouse, four up) that we all wore our crash helmets... and gave him a running commentary. (90 left, tightens.... that sort of stuff).

He developed into quite the nervous type after a while.

welcome home (from the other thread).... :Pokey:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Again, I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST/FOR ANY FRIGGIN BURQAS, BUT I DO HAVE THINGS POLITICIANS WITH HOT AIR THAT STINKS :pinch:

May I remind you all just a bit of recent examples:
- recent taxi/bus driver legislation that needs repairing?
- Noise legislation that could not be implemented?
- council bylaws that contradicts nationwide law (auckland brothel bylaw, anyone?)
- dog laws made just after a few mauled kids got reported in NZHarold, not before.
- immigration laws that changes everytime NZHarold reported something (yesterday we ban chinese, today we ban middle easterns, tomorrow maybe we have too much pommy, etc)
- pregnancy tests for islanders coming here, oh damn it contravenes human rights and blatantly embarassing...
- and the list goes on and on and on...

awwwww. all I wanted to do was rant. Now you've made me think. NO fair

:(

[Marmoot]

Sunglasses screw your peripheral vision a fair bit too...we gonna ban those in cars too?

Fuck that...Im not going to live in a police state and thats what this country is legislating its way towards at the moment. I thought bikers were a bit more open minded than this?

Get real people...Burkas/headscarfs='go home'...I mean come-on?

*ahem*....."burkas/headscarfs='go home'" principle will make this country a police state.
I thought you as a biker was a bit more open minded than this? :Pokey:

edit: I didn't know smilies are case-sensitive....

[chickenfunkstar]

Has anyone actually seen a Muslim woman driving with a full face burqa?
There's quite a few Muslim girls who wear a head scarf only at uni but I can only remember seeing a couple wearing a full face burqa in the whole time i've been there. As for restricting vision, I wouldn't know as i've never worn one.

Seems as though some of the people in this thread are just looking to attack Islam. Whats with the 'if you move here, do what I do' attitude? Part of the deal with New Zealand is that you don't have to do what everyone else is doing. We have the freedom to wear / believe in what ever we want. Why should this not extend to everyone who lives here?

[Lou Girardin]

If the Police are concerned that identification is a problem, they must be expecting an big increase in female Muslim criminal immigrants. Or, they're expecting an awful lot of home-grown crims to have sex-changes and convert to Islam.
And, as has been said, the strict form of Islam that requires burkhas, aslo bans women from driving. They can't have it both ways.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I I don't have anything against or for burqa, but some people's behaviour and remarks are simply contradicting to the values that they preach.

I blinged you for that. absolutely right.

[Marmoot]

Seems as though some of the people in this thread are just looking to attack Islam.

It has something to do with Human Nature, with few basic elements such as:

1. Don't know don't care - what makes 1 american soldier casualty worth more than 500 dead iraqi civilians.

2. Different = don't belong - it is easy to marginalize someone that is different than the majority. That is why discriminations are always everywhere. Not just based on race, but also towards disabled people, gender (women in men-dominated society such as armed service, straight men in women-dominated society such as fashion industry, etc). And these discriminations more often comes sub-consciously. E.g: the persons doing it do not realize they are doing it.

Humans, basically, are a type of social animal. They still have basic animalistic instinct, normally suppressed by legal laws in everyday life. Frustrated state, large group or anonimity may trigger the animalistic instinct which will overcome the suppresant.
These instinct only concerns him/her with the welfare of his/her 'herd' (read: similar type of beings, either in physical appearance or ideas) and would give tendency to reject those outside the 'herd' as enemies.

How much of the instinct affect his/her behaviour depends on his/her social life (education, family values, etc). That is why some groups are easier to get incited into mobbing, while other groups appear to resort more to educational debates, etc.

Edit: I took a step back and read and thought "what the f**k am I writting?....." so I think I'd go out tonight and grab a few 'bottles' just to clarify my mind for a better weekend.......

[Hitcher]

Looking at the photo published in this morning's DominionPost and at the image on Stuff (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3628771a11,00.html),
the muslim woman in question appears to be of European origin -- I suspect a New Zealand convert -- rather than of Middle Eastern or Asian stock.

On this basis, if she were to "go back to where she came from" she may only be going as far as Timaru or Dargaville.

Rather than a rednecked rant about recent immigrants, particularly those who don't look like "us", how about confining discussion to whether or not drivers of motor vehicles should be allowed to wear apparel that stops others identifying them? Isn't the real issue "religious freedom" versus vehicle operator identification?

And, on that basis, what's the difference between a niqab and a full-face helmet?

[Marmoot]

And, on that basis, what's the difference between a niqab and a full-face helmet?
exactly.........full-face helmets should be made of transparent resin compound reinforced by carbon-fibre frames?
But it would be a bit hard without the sponge padding unless they are transparent too.

And sunglasses should be made with clear glass........eh, what???.....:scratch:

[Streetwise]

It has something to do with Human Nature, with few basic elements such as:

1. Don't know don't care - what makes 1 american soldier casualty worth more than 500 dead iraqi civilians.

2. Different = don't belong - it is easy to marginalize someone that is different than the majority. That is why discriminations are always everywhere. Not just based on race, but also towards disabled people, gender (women in men-dominated society such as armed service, straight men in women-dominated society such as fashion industry, etc). And these discriminations more often comes sub-consciously. E.g: the persons doing it do not realize they are doing it.

Humans, basically, are a type of social animal. They still have basic animalistic instinct, normally suppressed by legal laws in everyday life. Frustrated state, large group or anonimity may trigger the animalistic instinct which will overcome the suppresant.
These instinct only concerns him/her with the welfare of his/her 'herd' (read: similar type of beings, either in physical appearance or ideas) and would give tendency to reject those outside the 'herd' as enemies.

How much of the instinct affect his/her behaviour depends on his/her social life (education, family values, etc). That is why some groups are easier to get incited into mobbing, while other groups appear to resort more to educational debates, etc.

Edit: I took a step back and read and thought "what the f**k am I writting?....." so I think I'd go out tonight and grab a few 'bottles' just to clarify my mind for a better weekend.......



This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

[ManDownUnder]

If logic should be applied, then since these women wear this thing and DON'T drive in 'their' country, then why should they expect to drive here, yet still wear etc...?

because they're allowed to drive here, and wearing it is in accordance with their beleifs and values.

[ManDownUnder]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

Sure you can - unless they violate a law... and in this case there is a workaround. - See my post a while back
MDU

[chickenfunkstar]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

Part of our 'social expectations' is that everyone if free to wear whatever they like. They can also believe in what they like. I like it that way, I'd hate to have the government tell me what I can and cannot wear.

Who's expecting their belief systems to be followed over here? Muslim's aren't saying that NZ women should have to cover their faces. It's their choice to do so and I don't have a problem with that.

[Marmoot]

This isnt about about race color creed or whatever, this is a about social expectations. This is NZ not the middle east. If you choose to move here you must live by the social expectation of the country you are moving to. You cant come here and expect your belief systems to be followed as it was back in your own land.

That is a pretty harsh argument......let me show you why.

I asume the moslem women wears burqas because of their religion (their belief that it is a sin to 'tempt' other man. Note: this is their belief. This argument does not concern whether you think you will not be tempted).
If they do wear it because of their belief, then it is not a cultural issue.

In which case, NZ as a society can only adopt TWO different stance:
(1) tolerate their belief/religion as we tolerate other religion. Which means they should be allowed to wear burqas. OR,
(2) define their belief as non-acceptable, therefore condemning Moslems to be non-acceptable. I'd imagine it would be pretty harsh to ban a religion as big as Moslem.

I don't see a way of tolerating a religion but not one of it's value. For religion, it would be either YES or NO, and there would not be halfway.

Why? Because religion is different from culture.
With culture, you can change. It is only from family and social education.
But with religion/belief, it is between an individual and his/her God(s). You cannot say something is right or wrong unless that religion says so.

That is also why religion is the easiest to be used as mass control. If you control the religion, you control the mass. There is nothing any outsiders can do to prove the religion is wrong, regardless of anything.

Not only moslem in middle east, but also Catholocism (I'm a catholic), some Christian lines (Want to talk about Zed?), Jehovah's witness, Samoan Churches, Destiny Church, that church in US that did mass suicide, middle age crusades, etc.

Sad but true...Religion is a great concept misused...

[Streetwise]

here here, But when it starts to effect my children in schools, my life outside my home, ill say my piece. You cant sit there and tell me that nz isnt falling to pieces around us. mind you maybe you just dont care.

[Marmoot]

here here, But when it starts to effect my children in schools, my life outside my home, ill say my piece. You cant sit there and tell me that nz isnt falling to pieces around us. mind you maybe you just dont care.

falling to pieces? I disagree. It is more like 'rotting from inside'. Sort of brain-cancer but you're not allowed to medicate it.
Or being in your car with your family, and your mother fart great stink and your father tells you to inhale as much as possible or pay a fine.

[Streetwise]

owell once the free trade deal is signed with china, we will all be better off and have money flowwing from our pockets. We will be free to roam the earth and not worry about out little piece of dirt that we used to call home. aaaaaaaaaaaa wont it be bliss. YEA RIGHT.

[Marmoot]

owell once the free trade deal is signed with china, we will all be better off and have money flowwing from our pockets. We will be free to roam the earth and not worry about out little piece of dirt that we used to call home. aaaaaaaaaaaa wont it be bliss. YEA RIGHT.
you're going out of topic.......come back........come back..................

[Streetwise]

no im not its all part in parcel in my view.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That is a pretty harsh argument......Sad but true...Religion is a great concept misused...

NOw I disagree. Ban all religion is my answer. Its just wrong. and bad. and stuff.

[Streetwise]

not likely to happen though, Would be nice.

[u4ea]

...and wasn't that just the beginning of the end for a normal, sensible society?:devil2: ...sheesh, next 'they' will be expecting roles in upper management, government and so on. Where will it end???:cry:
haha yea i hate equality.have to go to work and pay my own bills.....and cant ride like a man,am sure thats a testosterone thing......................not to mention that now c sections are common theres no fairness that men cant have the babies!!!!!!!!!!!!nah men in skirts make me sik!!!!!!:slap:

[Streetwise]

now im confused, What the hell are you on about...

[Marmoot]

NOw I disagree. Ban all religion is my answer. Its just wrong. and bad. and stuff.

Dang.....you're more chinese than me and my wife and her whole family and friends combined :wacko:

[Clockwork]

...And, on that basis, what's the difference between a niqab and a full-face helmet?

Pupose. One is designed to protect, the other to conceal.

I'm sure that many Muslims will tell you that these concealing garments are not a requirement of Islam, they are a "cultural" requirement. If this is so, should they be given the same privilege?

[Marmoot]

One should not assume all moslems are the same, as one should not assume Catholics and Protestants are the same.

Whatever their belief, it is their belief. And one can argue until the froth produced is more than one in the one's flatwhite but belief will stay as belief.




And, regarding niqab vs full-face helmet, different purpose (yes) but same end-result (concealment). And, same goes with sun-glasses (albeit partial-concealment only).
I'd say, though, it is more socially acceptable to wear burqas than motorcycle helmet when playing a hand of poker with your mates.

[u4ea]

Dang.....you're more chinese than me and my wife and her whole family and friends combined :wacko:
now ya back on topic.was meaning previosly about berkas ,woman and equality.how do we interpret diffrent beleifs?...................................sorry my pc playing tricks on me!not getting shit together.

[Marmoot]

now ya back on topic.was meaning previosly about berkas ,woman and equality.how do we interpret diffrent beleifs?...................................sorry my pc playing tricks on me!not getting shit together.

Now you're talking about drag????
Makes us wonder sometimes: if gays are not attracted by women, then what is the point of trying hard to dress up as girls since none of their mates will be unattracted by them? Just act girly, dress normal, and one 'male' gay would pick them up, won't it?

Edit: wait....where does the piece about 'drag' went to?

[Streetwise]

im not poking my finger just at muslims im poking it at all people who move here from afar and preach, Once here you should follow what is socially acceptable by the masses, Lets forget law, We all break it anyway.

[u4ea]

Now you're talking about drag????
Makes us wonder sometimes: if gays are not attracted by women, then what is the point of trying hard to dress up as girls since none of their mates will be unattracted by them? Just act girly, dress normal, and one 'male' gay would pick them up, won't it?

Edit: wait....where does the piece about 'drag' went to?
anyhoo yea those queers are a confusing bunch.i wuold never get 1 shitty,they still punch like a man!!!!!!!!!

[Streetwise]

so ive been told.

[u4ea]

im not poking my finger just at muslims im poking it at all people who move here from afar and preach, Once here you should follow what is socially acceptable by the masses, Lets forget law, We all break it anyway.
YEP,REGARLESS OF GENDER OR CREED

[Streetwise]

Yea. regardless

[u4ea]

i still think gays are yukky tho........................................:beer:

[Streetwise]

ok thats out in left field.

[Streetwise]

so i guess you dont own a copy of broke back mountain, hahahaha

[ManDownUnder]

i still think gays are yukky tho........................................:beer:

No worries - they quite possibly think the same of you and I - no big deal.

[Ixion]

The whole of the argument misses the point. As far as I am concerned (and I can not see why any one else would differ) , I do not care what anyone does so long as it does not detrimentally affect me or my family. Do what you will , so long as it does not endanger me, cost me money , impinge on MY freedom to likewise do what I want etc etc.

Now, if this headgear (there seems to be a nomenclature issue, I think of bhurka as those tent things that hang down from the top of the head with a little fabric grille thingy to peer through, but most people seem to be talking about the soft head scarf/veil things) affects a driver's vision then that potentially endangers me. I don't like that .

Note, I don't say that it DOES affect vision - I've never worn one, if someone who has says "No, I've tried it and it's not a problem" then I'm happy to accept that.

If it doesn't then I can't see any way at all that someone wearing one , at any time, affects me. What other people wear is none of my business and I don't care.

Simple as that . Vision hazard ? Affects me, puts me in danger, not happy. No vision hazrd , not my business, do what you will. Get police person to try one a few examples of different sorts and report back. Sorted

What concern can anyone else have about it other than that ?

[u4ea]

mm.at the end of the day if we can have other peoples beleifs thrust upon us then this debate woudnt occur.societies do need to be governd by some form or another i guess

[chickenfunkstar]

im not poking my finger just at muslims im poking it at all people who move here from afar and preach, Once here you should follow what is socially acceptable by the masses, Lets forget law, We all break it anyway.

Who defines what 'socially acceptable'? I'd assume that we're both 'kiwis' as are many muslims, but we all have a completly different idea on what is and what is not 'socially acceptable'

[u4ea]

mm.at the end of the day if we didnt have other peoples beleifs thrust upon us then this debate woudnt occur.societies do need to be governd by some form or another i guess,

[kickingzebra]

Soooo, in summary
Gays are bad
Different people are bad
Muslims are bad
Kawasakies are bad
and dont wear burgers while you are riding....

Does that sum it up well enough?
Oh, and viewing brokeback mountain with critical acclaim will see all kiwibiker rights removed.... That is also bad.

I find it real funny how emotional reaction and logical reaction are two differnt things, logic by definition plays the devils advocate with every scenario, whereas emotional reaction refuses to think from any other point of view, but cannot hold its intensity..

BTW the above is a joke, which does not neccesarily mean that all of the above bad things are good things.

[Teflon]

Sad but true...Religion is a great concept misused...
They created religion as a law system to scare and control..

[u4ea]

yep,scary now gays can marry............................................. ......

[Streetwise]

Soooo, in summary
Gays are bad
Different people are bad
Muslims are bad
Kawasakies are bad
and dont wear burgers while you are riding....

Does that sum it up well enough?
Oh, and viewing brokeback mountain with critical acclaim will see all kiwibiker rights removed.... That is also bad.

I find it real funny how emotional reaction and logical reaction are two differnt things, logic by definition plays the devils advocate with every scenario, whereas emotional reaction refuses to think from any other point of view, but cannot hold its intensity..




BTW the above is a joke, which does not neccesarily mean that all of the above bad things are good things.


all is correct but kawasakies arnt that bad, Not as bad as honda,s anyway..:moon:

[Streetwise]

They created religion as a law system to scare and control..


that backfired didnt it. :violin:

[idb]

Edit: Anyone knows if driving a car while wearing helmets (or, let's make it "full-face motorcycle helmet") illegal? I'm concerned about my safety at times.
Especially with all those half-blind Muslim wimmin driving around!!!

[Marmoot]

Once here you should follow what is socially acceptable by the masses

OMG, wouldn't you wish.......

If that is what we should do, this will be KIWICOROLA.CO.NZ as we'd all be in shabby toyota corolas moving in flow at 50kph max, and creatures such as Fireblades, R1s and Hayabusa would all be extinct.

The greatest thing about Free country is individualism, where you are free to express your individualism, AS LONG AS (as ixion said) you do not infringe on others.
Responsible freedom, that's what we call it.

If burqas are not blocking view, then it should not be banned. If it is, then it should. BUT, it has to be proven scientifically, not just someone in wellington has his knees jerking around from last night's big orgasm.
I.e., if the restricted vision is less than that of a person wearing full-face helmet, then the result of such scientific experiment will surely affect us..........unfortunately.......

I think the whole debacle reported in NZHarold that triggered this thread is a bit PC-driven, which I am sick and tired of. Hence my replies.....:mellow:

[Streetwise]

its not the vision thats the problem i thought, Its that police dont have the right to ask these woman to remove them when they get pulled over, They have to get a female officer to do that, What a load of bollox.

[Marmoot]

They created religion as a law system to scare and control..

No, religion is created as a structure around faith. Which, in the beginning, is a great concept.

But some smart people figured "hey, let's talk smart and pretend we know a lot about religions and skew them to control the masses".



A bit like guns. They are created for self defence against intruders. Then some smart people use them to intrude........

[u4ea]

Especially with all those half-blind Muslim wimmin driving around!!!
i have shifted to a nice quiet country town,no berkas,no pushy asians,no triads,no nothing.and its great so far anyway.........................i dont really mind immigrants but they can be bloody ignorant

[Marmoot]

its not the vision thats the problem i thought, Its that police dont have the right to ask these woman to remove them when they get pulled over, They have to get a female officer to do that, What a load of bollox.

I'd say if they don't remove it, the police should have rights to detain them (take them to metro downtown) until identity can be established. It is common sense anyway.

[scumdog]

Weren't burquas around before Mohammed ????

[Marmoot]

Weren't burquas around before Mohammed ????

no historical fact on that

[MSTRS]

The burkha vs. helmet thing doesn't fly. One is used for concealment (a form of protection, I guess). The other is designed for protection only. Try and go about your daily life using a helmet as concealment - CrimeWatch will run for 5 hours every night on your TV with the majority of items asking "Who can ID this individual?"

[idb]

Fucking hippocrates.
I agree.
Thanks to him inventing doctors the sicker I get the poorer I get.
Prick!!!

[Streetwise]

I'd say if they don't remove it, the police should have rights to detain them (take them to metro downtown) until identity can be established. It is common sense anyway.


How much time is that going to take up, :pinch:

[u4ea]

How much time is that going to take up, :pinch:
exactly.those women are proving a problem in france as well r they not?some of them are trained to kill as of 911 and like the russian women,they are not wot they seem.i am ex TF and beleive they need to be treated like everyone else for obvious reasons

[Streetwise]

exactly.those women are proving a problem in france as well r they not?some of them are trained to kill as of 911 and like the russian women,they are not wot they seem.i am ex TF and beleive they need to be treated like everyone else for obvious reasons

what is TF

[u4ea]

what is TF
nzdf.....................territorial force.:2guns:

[Streetwise]

aaaa nice work, i think they will be in need before long.

[Marmoot]

How much time is that going to take up, :pinch:

about 4 weeks I guess. It took them 12 days to come to my place after burglary, and 1 hour to come to my workplace when I reported someone wanted-by-police was in my premise grabbing letters off my staff (of course they complained afterwards for coming all the way to my place and couldn't find the individual....perhaps she ran away during that one hour, but what are the chance of that happening....)

[u4ea]

mmmmmmmmmmm.just quietly

[MSTRS]

Just a point here....I assume these people move from their country of origin in the hope of a better life. How can it prove to be better if they essentially change nothing about themselves??

[Streetwise]

its sucks fat jobbies i no,

[Deano]

Apparently its do with identification of drivers. A photo licence is obviously useless for identification if the face can't be seen. It has nothing to do with discriminating against a particular sector of the community.

So all boy racers wearing hoodies and sunnies can expect to get pulled over cause they can't be identified when driving ? No caps or sunnies allowed ?

What about someone wearing a groucho marx nose and moustache ?

Wouldn't a crim be better off getting a cheap wig and some sunglasses to disguise themselves when driving ? Might look a bit cheesy but less conspicuous than a burqa (sp):sherlock:

[Streetwise]

Just a point here....I assume these people move from their country of origin in the hope of a better life. How can it prove to be better if they essentially change nothing about themselves??


that was the whole point of the thread,

[Streetwise]

So all boy racers wearing hoodies and sunnies can expect to get pulled over cause they can't be identified when driving ? No caps or sunnies allowed ?

What about someone wearing a groucho marx nose and moustache ?

Wouldn't a crim be better off getting a cheap wig and some sunglasses to disguise themselves when driving ? Might look a bit cheesy but less conspicuous than a burqa (sp):sherlock:

well i must say its odd being in a bank and a berka wearer walks in, You have no idea if its a mad bastard with a gun up his skirt.

[Marmoot]

Just a point here....I assume these people move from their country of origin in the hope of a better life. How can it prove to be better if they essentially change nothing about themselves??

better-paying job. I was going to say about security too, but then again I got burgled 5 times already so I am not sure about that anymore.....

And to add fire to Deano's argument, Ministry of Health is now promoting the use of masks to prevent outbreak of sickness. If any of people around you are sick, it should be made normal for you to wear mask to prevent contagions.
Should you be banned from driving while wearing mask when one of the car occupants is sick? <_<

[Marmoot]

well i must say its odd being in a bank and a berka wearer walks in, You have no idea if its a mad bastard with a gun up his skirt.

have there been more burqa-wearing bank robbers than non-burqa-wearing ones?
If so, yes it is a real concern to our society......

[Deano]

well i must say its odd being in a bank and a berka wearer walks in, You have no idea if its a mad bastard with a gun up his skirt.

Thought we were talking about identification of a person while driving.

[u4ea]

Just a point here....I assume these people move from their country of origin in the hope of a better life. How can it prove to be better if they essentially change nothing about themselves??
true.as fore mentioned these societies are ruled by their religiuos doctrine and its extreme by what our society knows and tolerates.they are power trippers and havn't quite realised the stregnth in the kiwi ways.our laws arn;t tuff enuff yet,but we won;t tolerate it either!!!!!!!!!

[Deano]

And to add fire to Deano's argument, Ministry of Health is now promoting the use of masks to prevent outbreak of sickness. If any of people around you are sick, it should be made normal for you to wear mask to prevent contagions.
Should you be banned from driving while wearing mask when one of the car occupants is sick? <_<

I saw an asian woman walking up the road from home this morning with a mask on - thought I was in Singapore or something for a moment. With the wind up on the hills where I live, there is bugger all pollution and it's the wrong season for pollen, so I can't figure out why the need for a mask ? Paranoia about bird flu ?

[MSTRS]

Can we agree on how to spell berka/bhurka/burkha/burqa. Ut's doin'ma heid in.

[u4ea]

I saw an asian woman walking up the road from home this morning with a mask on - thought I was in Singapore or something for a moment. With the wind up on the hills where I live, there is bugger all pollution and it's the wrong season for pollen, so I can't figure out why the need for a mask ? Paranoia about bird flu ?
faken scary:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: and some jack for this cough

[Marmoot]

I saw an asian woman walking up the road from home this morning with a mask on - thought I was in Singapore or something for a moment. With the wind up on the hills where I live, there is bugger all pollution and it's the wrong season for pollen, so I can't figure out why the need for a mask ? Paranoia about bird flu ?

Mate, didn't you get a leaflet from Ministry of Health a few weeks ago? They recommend us to wear mask if we're sick, or if anyone around us is sick.
Better start getting used to it before they make it compulsory with a fine for not wearing mask. You know how our government is........they'd call it mask-tax.
or max-tax

[u4ea]

Mate, didn't you get a leaflet from Ministry of Health a few weeks ago? They recommend us to wear mask if we're sick, or if anyone around us is sick.
Better start getting used to it before they make it compulsory with a fine for not wearing mask. You know how our government is........they'd call it mask-tax.
or max-tax
yea i read it .reckon the buggers sent the cuogh too,no prepepayed envelope to send it back to them......................................:crazy:

[Streetwise]

yea this all started with the riding while wearing a bizurka. but the conversation has changed around alot.

[u4ea]

yea this all started with the riding while wearing a bizurka. but the conversation has changed around alot.
haha yea and now no one wants to talk to me .maybe they think bronchitis is caught thru a computer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!enuff to drive ya BERKAS:devil2:

[Streetwise]

hahahahaa heha ha thats funny. bird flu in england,, ooooo not long now.

[u4ea]

hahahahaa heha ha thats funny. bird flu in england,, ooooo not long now.
your faken joking me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thats it i am going to kidnap a man ,stock up on steak and wiskey and hibernate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:gob:

[Streetwise]

yea im serious, ok it was on the radio. a swann has been found with the virus.

[u4ea]

o shit.i used to work around swans and koots and geese and ducks before my crash.bloody scary:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[Streetwise]

time for a job change i would think...

[Teflon]

that backfired didnt it. :violin:
Backfired in what way?

[u4ea]

yep.at home nowadays.surgeon taking his time so i can hybernate for the winter hehe

[Teflon]

yep,scary now gays can marry............................................. ......
well, that's religion for you.

[Streetwise]

They created religion as a law system to scare and control..


I miss read your statment, sorry dude :weird:

[u4ea]

well, that's religion for you.
yea but the old law said you could take everything for adultery now you can take faken half even if you were a pratt.mind you i have half a bike now............................................... ...:doctor:

[MSTRS]

yea but the old law said you could take everything for adultery now you can take faken half even if you were a pratt.mind you i have half a bike now............................................... ...:doctor:
That was the concession we made when 'you lot' wanted out of the kitchen. Can't have it both ways, you know.:banana:

[u4ea]

just a thought................instead of a berka,us gals just have to wear tinted visors 24;7 and that would be just as dangerous.....................::slap:

[u4ea]

That was the consession we made when 'you lot' wanted out of the kitchen. Can't have it both ways, you know.:banana:
nah i hate having to go to work and come home and cook,do dishes,washing and it gets tiring.wish i was addicted to pokies that wud be better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!then the male works and girl spends the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mot u:

[u4ea]

sorry what i meant to say was i worked as hard as the guys and payed 8 grand cash for my 2000 trx.i am answerable to no one and altho terrific in the kitchen i really enjoyed my job.it is true we are the weaker species but not to be underestimated either.:ride: :moon: :rolleyes:

[kickingzebra]

How many Muslim women (or men dressed as muslim women) speed and run drugs? Just wondering if there is room in the market...!

[u4ea]

want to borrow my berka?????????????????

[Deano]

Shouldn't be a need to wear a face mask in the open air to avoid person to person illness. Especially in Wgtn.

I will start wearing one when the first Wgtn 'victim' is known. Surely won't be me...what are the odds.

[Marmoot]

Shouldn't be a need to wear a face mask in the open air to avoid person to person illness. Especially in Wgtn.

I will start wearing one when the first Wgtn 'victim' is known. Surely won't be me...what are the odds.

I'd agree with you. But that was the official recommendation from Ministry of Health.

Now, bugger me if I understand, but Ministry of Health recommend wearing mask and Ministry of Police wants masks banned.
We might have a civil-war going on soon between ambos and police :killingme

[Lias]

Welcome to New Zealand, abide by our laws. If you don't like it............ FUCK OFF
Thank you for a new sig sir :-)

[Lias]

How many Muslim women (or men dressed as muslim women) speed and run drugs? Just wondering if there is room in the market...!
Considering muslims invented hashish and Afghanistan is one of the worlds top top heroin producers, i'd say there are probably quite a few muslim druglords around.

[jazbug5]

........................i dont really mind immigrants but they can be bloody ignorant

*splutter*

[u4ea]

*splutter*
ok alrite....................i was being nice.i wont be nice anymore........................................... ...........:mellow:

[kickingzebra]

Im told some of the biggest duty free alcohol sellers in the world are in muslim countries. Kinda interesting when your religion prohibits alcohol... (and presumably drugs) Wonder if the women are allowed to buy alcohol, after all as sub humans, surely the human laws can't apply to them.

Keep the burkha on, keep raising your children to be angry, to continue in unjustified hate. Keep the progression up I say, the world will grow to love you and support you when the oil runs out.

Oh, and, just keep wearing the sack. At least then we know who we should probably mistrust.
Rant for the day...

[Oscar]

Im told some of the biggest duty free alcohol sellers in the world are in muslim countries. Kinda interesting when your religion prohibits alcohol... (and presumably drugs) Wonder if the women are allowed to buy alcohol, after all as sub humans, surely the human laws can't apply to them.

Keep the burkha on, keep raising your children to be angry, to continue in unjustified hate. Keep the progression up I say, the world will grow to love you and support you when the oil runs out.

Oh, and, just keep wearing the sack. At least then we know who we should probably mistrust.
Rant for the day...


You're "told" are you?
Well, that's acceptable proof on the internet...

As for "unjustified hate", have you ever met a Muslim?

[The_Dover]

Does my bomb look big in this?

[Streetwise]

i wondered what you where hiding up your burka,

[Streetwise]

You're "told" are you?
Well, that's acceptable proof on the internet...

As for "unjustified hate", have you ever met a Muslim?


You cant say that its unjust hate as you dont know the history of the fella making his point. I dont know many muslims but the ons i do are pretty extreme people,

[The_Dover]

I have a really good mate who's a muslim, I used to be his manager. He was a hard working, ambitious and all round top cunt.

He's a total stoner too.

[kickingzebra]

In general I like the people, and I like the diversity. The digression between what is said, and what is done is what gets my goat. So, generalisation, not a personal attack, I would sit down and talk for hours with any Muslim that knew a little about his own religion. I have the same beef with Christianity, of which I am an adherant.

Is that a banana in your burkha, or are you just pleased to see me?

[Oscar]

You cant say that its unjust hate as you dont know the history of the fella making his point. I dont know many muslims but the ons i do are pretty extreme people,


I do know that he's just posted an inflammatory comment here with absolutely no evidence. The irony (which you/he obviously miss) is that you are posting hate speech complaining about Muslim hate speech.

There are hundreds of millions of muslims in the world - do you judge them all on the ones you know or what you're told?
Shallow.

[Streetwise]

I have a really good mate who's a muslim, I used to be his manager. He was a hard working, ambitious and all round top cunt.

He's a total stoner too.

I dont deny that he might have been a top man, But muslims dont tke drugs do they ???

[Streetwise]

I do know that he's just posted an inflammatory comment here with absolutely no evidence. The irony (which you/he obviously miss) is that you are posting hate speech complaining about Muslim hate speech.

There are hundreds of millions of muslims in the world - do you judge them all on the ones you know or what you're told?
Shallow.

I think you have it wrong, Are you a muslim???

[Oscar]

I think you have it wrong, Are you a muslim???


There's not much evidence here that you think at all.
Are you a moron????

[kickingzebra]

I do know that he's just posted an inflammatory comment here with absolutely no evidence. The irony (which you/he obviously miss) is that you are posting hate speech complaining about Muslim hate speech.
Shallow.

Hate Speech is the fundamental right of a free society. Inflammatory comments are the realm of the bored. Burkhas look funny. Monkeys are cool. People from the waikato have something funny in the water supply...

It's called free speech, and you have the right to disagree. You even have the right to hate me for hateing the haters, but I assure you, I will treat the standard backslider muslim well, hell, I'll even buy the beer and talk and listen, long and in depth about life, philosophy and religion with said people. (edit, maybe even bikes, if the mahudjadin allow it)

The ones that actually believe whats written in the Koran worry me too much. I'd prefer to stay out of bomb range thankyou very much.

[Oscar]

Hate Speech is the fundamental right of a free society. Inflammatory comments are the realm of the bored. Burkhas look funny. Monkeys are cool. People from the waikato have something funny in the water supply...

It's called free speech, and you have the right to disagree. You even have the right to hate me for hateing the haters, but I assure you, I will treat the standard backslider muslim well, hell, I'll even buy the beer and talk and listen, long and in depth about life, philosophy and religion with said people. (edit, maybe even bikes, if the mahudjadin allow it)

The ones that actually believe whats written in the Koran worry me too much. I'd prefer to stay out of bomb range thankyou very much.

So are you a Christian, then?
Do you realise that God and Allah are fundamentally the same being?

BTW - You are correct, we live in a free society. It is your right to go on line and be a complete moron...

[kickingzebra]

Thankyou and I try. In the same way that Ali G and Dolly parton are the same, maybe. But you need to read more if you truely believe that.

[Streetwise]

There's not much evidence here that you think at all.
Are you a moron????


well i guess i am a moron then, But you still didint aswer the question are you a muslim, or does that question bother you,??

[enigma51]

Fit in or fuck off plain and simple!

[Oscar]

Thankyou and I try. In the same way that Ali G and Dolly parton are the same, maybe. But you need to read more if you truely believe that.


Jesus is a Muslim prophet.

[Streetwise]

Jesus is a Muslim prophet.


mm ill take that as a yes, :brick:

[kickingzebra]

Jesus is a Muslim prophet.
And some said he was a good Man, But I say he is the son of God.

Confucious was said by some to be a prophet, though his teachings were not strictly spiritual, some would say they were humanistic at best. Oil is a Muslim Profit.
Hell, call anything what you like, doesn't mean it is that.

[Oscar]

well i guess i am a moron then, But you still didint aswer the question are you a muslim, or does that question bother you,??


The only thing that bothers me is ignorant people (be they Muslim, Christian or whatever).

[kickingzebra]

Define ignorant? Not in agreement with you?

[Streetwise]

The only thing that bothers me is ignorant people (be they Muslim, Christian or whatever).


Well if thats the case im wondering how you live with yourself.

[Oscar]

And some said he was a good Man, But I say he is the son of God.

Confucious was said by some to be a prophet, though his teachings were not strictly spiritual, some would say they were humanistic at best. Oil is a Muslim Profit.
Hell, call anything what you like, doesn't mean it is that.

Oil is a Muslim profit?
That's pretty funny. Do you think the families of the dead in Iraq would laugh?

So if Allah is not God, is God the same as Yahweh?

[Oscar]

Well if thats the case im wondering how you live with yourself.


Oh gee, that hurt.
Those five years in Standard Four not wasted, I see?

[Streetwise]

Oh gee, that hurt.
Those five years in Standard Four not wasted, I see?


what ever you say my muslim mate...

[Oscar]

Define ignorant? Not in agreement with you?


Not at all.

This is ignorant:


Im told some of the biggest duty free alcohol sellers in the world are in muslim countries. Kinda interesting when your religion prohibits alcohol... (and presumably drugs) Wonder if the women are allowed to buy alcohol, after all as sub humans, surely the human laws can't apply to them.

Keep the burkha on, keep raising your children to be angry, to continue in unjustified hate.

You have not the slightest scintilla of proof for that comment.
That's ignorant.

[enigma51]

So i take from you guys that you have actualy met these people first hand?

[kickingzebra]

I glad it amused you.
So my guess for you as a person, you wear pink, you vote left, Bush Hater etc. How did you manage to get a motorcycle, thats dangerous, and lefties don't like danger.

[Oscar]

what ever you say my muslim mate...

Allahu Akbar
May the peace of God be upon you...

[enigma51]

I glad it amused you.
So my guess for you as a person, you wear pink, you vote left, Bush Hater etc. How did you manage to get a motorcycle, thats dangerous, and lefties don't like danger.

im not left handed :rolleyes:

[Streetwise]

cheers for that im obviously in need of a prayer,

[enigma51]

Its not realy a prayer I think what do i know

[Streetwise]

I wouldnt know either, I only went to standard four,

[enigma51]

Idiot!

10 characters

[Oscar]

For the record, I am neither Muslim or Christian.
I find a small minority of adherents of each faith to be dangerous zealots.

Notwithstanding this, I am reasonably well informed about organised religion and I find it very strange that whereas Judaism begat Christianity and Christianity and Judaism begat Islam - these religions can't co-exist.

I suppose that I shouldn't be that surprised as there is conflict within these religions as well (Shiite v. Sunni, Protestant v. Catholic, that sorta stuff).

The lesson is that religion is a dangerous business, best avoided.

[kickingzebra]

Regarding my proof, do first hand witness accounts not count for anything? I can't honestly claim to have seen it with my own three eyes, but independantly have had it confirmed by two individuals, who don't know each other, one is a travel professional. Ill informed? you decide.
Back to the burkha gentlemen....

[The_Dover]

I dont deny that he might have been a top man, But muslims dont tke drugs do they ???

No, they pay for them like the rest of us.

At the end of the day we are all just human being and should be judged on our individual merits, not cultural or religious identity. Well, except kiwi sheep fuckers.

I have a good few muslim mates, they dont nick my pork scratchings when we are in the pub but other than that they are the same as any of you pricks.

They all have their prejudices and bullshit islam rants but at the end of the day it's the propaganda they have been fed by their elders and the media, same as us.

When you meet people and judge them on your own interactions it's all a little different. Just like the shit slinging on this dumb ass place!

[Oscar]

Regarding my proof, do first hand witness accounts not count for anything? I can't honestly claim to have seen it with my own three eyes, but independantly have had it confirmed by two individuals, who don't know each other, one is a travel professional. Ill informed? you decide.
Back to the burkha gentlemen....


You decide?
I have - judging every Muslim in the World based on two individuals is ill informed...

[kickingzebra]

wise words from the dover. We are all pickled in media, and idealogical preconceptions... Basically comes back to that arguing on the internet quote...

Nuurrrr say I

[kickingzebra]

I was refering to alcohol sales for the record, as to the ideaology, read the books.

[Marmoot]

No, they pay for them like the rest of us.

At the end of the day we are all just human being and should be judged on our individual merits, not cultural or religious identity. Well, except kiwi sheep fuckers.

I have a good few muslim mates, they dont nick my pork scratchings when we are in the pub but other than that they are the same as any of you pricks.

They all have their prejudices and bullshit islam rants but at the end of the day it's the propaganda they have been fed by their elders and the media, same as us.

When you meet people and judge them on your own interactions it's all a little different. Just like the shit slinging on this dumb ass place!

Gees, Dover........this comment does not bear your hallmark.
Is that really you, Dover?

[Marmoot]

I was refering to alcohol sales for the record, as to the ideaology, read the books.

You were referring to Duty-Free alcohol sales, not alcohol sales as a whole.
I'd imagine Duty-free alcohol sales figures are nowhere near total alcohol sales.

[Marmoot]

Hate Speech is the fundamental right of a free society. Inflammatory comments are the realm of the bored. Burkhas look funny. Monkeys are cool. People from the waikato have something funny in the water supply...

It's called free speech, and you have the right to disagree. You even have the right to hate me for hateing the haters, but I assure you, I will treat the standard backslider muslim well, hell, I'll even buy the beer and talk and listen, long and in depth about life, philosophy and religion with said people. (edit, maybe even bikes, if the mahudjadin allow it)

That is not Free world, but instead you are living in a Euphoria.

Free world should guarantee other's freedom too. By your euphoric freedom, you are infringing on someone else's freedom.
True freedom should not only go one way, but should be balanced in the middle.
As I have been taught, with freedom and rights also comes responsibilities.
There is a need for balance on what CAN be said and what NEEDS to be said.

Take a thought on this: What good does a Hate Speech do?

[enigma51]

This thread has taking a big turn from No burqas when riding to drug alcohal religion whos god whos alla inteligence freedom etc

So in that spirit I think I should add a new one men wearing dresses are wrong!

[kickingzebra]

Several thoughts come to mind, one part of me thinks you are dead right. My argument is this. The confrontation between Islam and the rest of the world is unavoidable. This much is obvious if you should take the time to study the teachings of said religion.
So, to avoid hurting the feelings of those that profess faith in Islam, should we cede all authority and sovereignty of our countries immediately to them?

Unfortunately, by guaranteeing one form of freedom, by neccesity, you cede authority for others.
Hence, though a free citizen in NZ, the government has the power to arrest me if I excercise my freedom in a manner which doesn't fit the public ethos.

My agenda is awareness. It makes me cringe to hear Muslims saying "Islam is a religion of Peace" the bit they leave out is "peace with all other followers of Islam" By their own book, they claim war as their behest.

Hence my vehemence. I don't want my Daughters to grow up, to be forced to wear a burkha. I want them to be free to think for themselves. That is going to require a strategic defence of what the rest of the world holds dear.

Don't imagine it will go away by itself, that is madness.

[Phurrball]

Regarding my proof, do first hand witness accounts not count for anything? (sniip)

Not unless they're yours. 'Tis hearsay otherwise. And what was said about judging the entire Muslim world on two opinions.


(snip)So, to avoid hurting the feelings of those that profess faith in Islam, should we cede all authority and sovereignty of our countries immediately to them?

Unfortunately, by guaranteeing one form of freedom, by neccesity, you cede authority for others.
Hence, though a free citizen in NZ, the government has the power to arrest me if I excercise my freedom in a manner which doesn't fit the public ethos.

(snip)

What's wrong with carrying out identification in a manner sensitive to the mores of the party concerned? That protects the person concerned, avoids Bill of Rights issues, and is of minimal substantive consequence to due process.

Powers of arrest and may happen when under arrest are strictly prescribed. POlice have such powers on the understanding that they will use them reasonably and within the (statutory, policy, and court) rules. Taking this reasoning to its conclusion, police aren't allowed to use certain interview techniques on detainees (undue pressure etc) or the evidence gained is binned. Why should making a person do something that is anaethema to them be reasonable when there is a way around it where all parties are happy? That doesn't affect the freedom of anyone, and certainly doesn't involve any cession of soverignty.

I know where you're coming from, but I don't think that your implication that this opens a door that may be difficult to close is sustainable.

Cheers,

Ross.

[Ixion]

If the issue is identification, motorcyclists are on shakey ground.

A woman wearing a veil may be hard to identify. But not as hard as a motorcylist wearing a helmet and tinted visor. If I am wearing such, and Mr Plod stops me, asks for licence - "I need to see your face to establish that you are the person this licence was issued to. Please raise your visor". " No. Won't". Now, I am quite sure that the law has a means to resolve this impasse. Probably with me being taken down to Plod Central.

So, with bhurkas and all such. "Please enable identification - no ? OK , come along with me then". And Muslim spokespersons have indicated that they find that acceptable.

Where is the problem? I can't see what the fuss is about. When I was a boy, nuns wore pretty much the same get up (wimple and veil). No-one had problems with them driving.

I could of course comment that this whole bruhaa is typical with the current day obession with identification. Personally I am jolly fed up with every Tom Dick and Harry demanding ID at every turn. Piss off.

And how much use are the photos on licences anyway? Brothers often look alike (look at Messrs BugJuice and Postie). And , apart from that, here is my licence with the photo taken 10 years ago. When I had long black hair, And a full beard and moustache. Doesn't look like me ? Oh , well, I've got a No 1 buzz cut now - hairs pretty grey anyway. And shaved the beard. And got my nose broken a while back. And put on 50 kg. Yeah, it's me though.

If the Muslim women want to modestly cover head and face, where's the harm . Live and let live.

[MSTRS]

The lesson is that religion is a dangerous business, best avoided.
Yes - but ignored at your peril.
Allah Akbar = God is great ... ??
Salaam = God's peace on you ...?

[Marmoot]

Several thoughts come to mind, one part of me thinks you are dead right. My argument is this. The confrontation between Islam and the rest of the world is unavoidable. This much is obvious if you should take the time to study the teachings of said religion.
So, to avoid hurting the feelings of those that profess faith in Islam, should we cede all authority and sovereignty of our countries immediately to them?
...
...
My agenda is awareness. It makes me cringe to hear Muslims saying "Islam is a religion of Peace" the bit they leave out is "peace with all other followers of Islam" By their own book, they claim war as their behest.

I fail to see where you are coming from.
If history is to be a good teacher, I believe there were more invasions and confrontations started by non-moslem authorities. Shall I say Spanish (inquisition, colonization, etc), Dutch, Portuguese and England as the past. Germany, Italy and Japan in the World War II, and our beloved modern-day US in the past 50 years.
The number of Moslem authorities invading non-moslem country to spread their words in the past 50 years? Zero.
So, how did you say we need to cede all our authority and sovereignty to them? or you were simply referring to the handful terrorist (relative to world's total Moslem population)? What about Basque, Free Chechens movements and IRA? They're not Moslem though they use similar methods of bombings, kidnappings, etc.
Is it 'there are some moslem extremists' or 'all moslems are extremists'?
Two similar sentence, but two different logic. One is partial, exceptional, anomaly; the other is total.
Which begs me (though I hate it so much) to question your motive: are you really concern about Moslems invading us, are you paranoids, or do you simply hate moslems because they are of different beliefs?
Remember, it only takes one to bark and being ignored. But it takes two to make a confrontation.




Hence my vehemence. I don't want my Daughters to grow up, to be forced to wear a burkha. I want them to be free to think for themselves.
I fail to see who is forcing them to wear burkhas.
In fact, what I see is you forcing moslem daughters not to wear burkhas even if they hold it in their belief to do so.
Same logic, but in reverse.....

[Oscar]

Yes - but ignored at your peril.
Allah Akbar = God is great ... ??
Salaam = God's peace on you ...?

True - I try and avoid religion, however as this thread proves, there's no ignoring it.

As sala'amu alaikum (peace be upon you).

[Marmoot]

As sala'amu alaikum (peace be upon you).

Wa'alaikum salaam...

[Oscar]

Several thoughts come to mind, one part of me thinks you are dead right. My argument is this. The confrontation between Islam and the rest of the world is unavoidable. This much is obvious if you should take the time to study the teachings of said religion.
So, to avoid hurting the feelings of those that profess faith in Islam, should we cede all authority and sovereignty of our countries immediately to them?

Unfortunately, by guaranteeing one form of freedom, by neccesity, you cede authority for others.
Hence, though a free citizen in NZ, the government has the power to arrest me if I excercise my freedom in a manner which doesn't fit the public ethos.

My agenda is awareness. It makes me cringe to hear Muslims saying "Islam is a religion of Peace" the bit they leave out is "peace with all other followers of Islam" By their own book, they claim war as their behest.

Hence my vehemence. I don't want my Daughters to grow up, to be forced to wear a burkha. I want them to be free to think for themselves. That is going to require a strategic defence of what the rest of the world holds dear.

Don't imagine it will go away by itself, that is madness.

"My agenda is awareness".

You agenda appears to be making baseless inflammatory statements.

For example you may wish to substantiate this statement:


The confrontation between Islam and the rest of the world is unavoidable.

This is like saying the existence of the IRA means that conflict between the Vatican and the rest of the world is unaviodable.

Although this one is true:

Hence, though a free citizen in NZ, the government has the power to arrest me if I excercise my freedom in a manner which doesn't fit the public ethos.


Because there are laws against hate speech.

What it comes down to Bubba, is that you can try and dress up ignorance in the guise of free speech, but it doesn't make you any less of a redneck moron than you obviously are...

[Oscar]

Wa'alaikum salaam...


Thanks, Cobber.

[enigma51]

But not as hard as a motorcylist wearing a helmet and tinted visor. If I am wearing such, and Mr Plod stops me, asks for licence - "I need to see your face to establish that you are the person this licence was issued to. Please raise your visor". " No. Won't". Now, I am quite sure that the law has a means to resolve this impasse. Probably with me being taken down to Plod Central.



Good point!

[kickingzebra]

Sorry, it seems I missed a part of my explanation.
The initial premise is that Islam is a forward moving, expansionist religion, in fact I believe the fastest growing in the world. The current favoured method is assimilation, I have posted this elsewhere. The stated goal of Islam is one of conquest. The methodology may change, but the end result is the same.

Islam recognises 2 (arguably 3) types of people in the world, it is my paraphrasing, but if you chase it down in the koran, you will find it to be true. There are Muslims, And Muslims that don't know it yet, and there are dead people. That is the ultimate end of the agenda.

Islam is a religion of control, the same could be argued of Christianity, The difference is in legalism. Sharia Law dictates what you can eat, what you can do, what you can wear, whom you can associate with amongst other things. These matters are not about choice for the true Muslim, they are final.

Islam is now invading countries by way of immigration, and reproduction.
They move to a country, they reproduce at a much greater rate than said countries population, then vote themselves into power.

What are you going to do when an Islamic party is voted into power, ushering in sweeping reforms, including the adoption of Sharia Law? Public executions are legitimised, and the right for women to vote is rescinded. Because they hold a popular majority, what can the minority do about it?

How often do you see outspoken free speech coming from the muslim world? Not very often, as it is frowned upon within the ranks. However, when Islam relocates to France for example, It can speak, and act in a brutal manner with absolute impunity.

It has been at best an uneasy peace for several hundred years now. I am not condoning the acts of the crusades, but that sort of time will come again. I sincerely believe that it will come to conflict on a much larger scale yet, and maybe in our lifetimes.

My answer if my Daughter was to decide to embrace Islam? I would be devastated, and expect a hell of a lot of good reasons out of her. It would be not unlike if one of your relatives was to join a cult. By default these are exclusive, and sometimes you cannot help but take a back seat and wait it out. There would be no excommunication from the family, but i would not hide the fact that I think that would be a dangerous decision to make. I would expect my Daughter to have thought it through.

I don't hate Muslims for having different beliefs, and if one could filter out the conquest motive from Islam, (and, for my peace of mind, i would have to add filtering out the control element) Then I would have no problem with it.

There are millions upon millions of Hindus in this world, and Buddhists. Yet none of these kill hundreds of innocent people in order to spread a message. none of these have written into their Holy books world domination, and death to opponents.

Allahu Akbar means God is Greater. Greater than what? the God he is an incomplete facsimile of.

[Oscar]

Sorry, it seems I missed a part of my explanation.
The initial premise is that Islam is a forward moving, expansionist religion, in fact I believe the fastest growing in the world. The current favoured method is assimilation, I have posted this elsewhere. The stated goal of Islam is one of conquest. The methodology may change, but the end result is the same.

Islam recognises 2 (arguably 3) types of people in the world, it is my paraphrasing, but if you chase it down in the koran, you will find it to be true. There are Muslims, And Muslims that don't know it yet, and there are dead people. That is the ultimate end of the agenda.

Islam is a religion of control, the same could be argued of Christianity, The difference is in legalism. Sharia Law dictates what you can eat, what you can do, what you can wear, whom you can associate with amongst other things. These matters are not about choice for the true Muslim, they are final.

Islam is now invading countries by way of immigration, and reproduction.
They move to a country, they reproduce at a much greater rate than said countries population, then vote themselves into power.

What are you going to do when an Islamic party is voted into power, ushering in sweeping reforms, including the adoption of Sharia Law? Public executions are legitimised, and the right for women to vote is rescinded. Because they hold a popular majority, what can the minority do about it?

How often do you see outspoken free speech coming from the muslim world? Not very often, as it is frowned upon within the ranks. However, when Islam relocates to France for example, It can speak, and act in a brutal manner with absolute impunity.

It has been at best an uneasy peace for several hundred years now. I am not condoning the acts of the crusades, but that sort of time will come again. I sincerely believe that it will come to conflict on a much larger scale yet, and maybe in our lifetimes.

My answer if my Daughter was to decide to embrace Islam? I would be devastated, and expect a hell of a lot of good reasons out of her. It would be not unlike if one of your relatives was to join a cult. By default these are exclusive, and sometimes you cannot help but take a back seat and wait it out. There would be no excommunication from the family, but i would not hide the fact that I think that would be a dangerous decision to make. I would expect my Daughter to have thought it through.

I don't hate Muslims for having different beliefs, and if one could filter out the conquest motive from Islam, (and, for my peace of mind, i would have to add filtering out the control element) Then I would have no problem with it.

There are millions upon millions of Hindus in this world, and Buddhists. Yet none of these kill hundreds of innocent people in order to spread a message. none of these have written into their Holy books world domination, and death to opponents.

Allahu Akbar means God is Greater. Greater than what? the God he is an incomplete facsimile of.


Working from the bottom up, Allahu Akbar actually means "God is Great" - so what's wrong with that.

Hindus have killed plenty. Study the partition of India.

There are plenty of Christian elements to our laws. What are you going to do about that.

Please post the quote from the Quoran about world domination.

In Islam there are the believers, "people of the book" and infidels.
"People of the Book" are Christians (and maybe Jews IIRC).

You are living proof of the saying "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

[Streetwise]

No, they pay for them like the rest of us.

At the end of the day we are all just human being and should be judged on our individual merits, not cultural or religious identity. Well, except kiwi sheep fuckers.

I have a good few muslim mates, they dont nick my pork scratchings when we are in the pub but other than that they are the same as any of you pricks.

They all have their prejudices and bullshit islam rants but at the end of the day it's the propaganda they have been fed by their elders and the media, same as us.

When you meet people and judge them on your own interactions it's all a little different. Just like the shit slinging on this dumb ass place!


Well you are allowed your opinion just like the rest of us, as for the shit slinging thats what this forum was all about. dont like it dont read it.

[kickingzebra]

I'll post the quotes when I get back home, during the weekend, as that involves a bit of research and rummaging on my part. A little knowledge may be a dangerous thing, but then fools do think themselves wise.

The christian elements in our law don't force christianity upon the beholden to them.

Hindus are people who have had wars aplenty, but the agenda is not there. Interestingly enough, most of the Hindus I have talked to speak of Islam as the worst evil imaginable, and Jews are muslims?! theres my startling thought for the day!!

A little knowledge is possibly the footstep up to more?
Surely it is better to have a little, and learned more through reasoned debate, than to happily go through life with only your own presuppositions to guide yourself, and never learn again.

keep the masses dumb, isn't that a labour party election promise?

[The_Dover]

Well you are allowed your opinion just like the rest of us, as for the shit slinging thats what this forum was all about. dont like it dont read it.

Sorry mate, that is just TOO funny.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Oscar]

I'll post the quotes when I get back home, during the weekend, as that involves a bit of research and rummaging on my part. A little knowledge may be a dangerous thing, but then fools do think themselves wise.

The christian elements in our law don't force christianity upon the beholden to them.

Hindus are people who have had wars aplenty, but the agenda is not there. Interestingly enough, most of the Hindus I have talked to speak of Islam as the worst evil imaginable, and Jews are muslims?! theres my startling thought for the day!!

A little knowledge is possibly the footstep up to more?
Surely it is better to have a little, and learned more through reasoned debate, than to happily go through life with only your own presuppositions to guide yourself, and never learn again.

keep the masses dumb, isn't that a labour party election promise?

Perhaps a little bit more knowledge than you currently possess would help you realise the old maxim about "'Tis better to be quiet and be thought a fool than opening ones mouth and removing all doubt".

[MSTRS]

.... and Jews are muslims?
People of the Book as referred to are the Jews and the early Christians. Islam, like Judaism, recognises Jesus as a prophet only. Islam also gives almost as much respect to Mary as Catholics do. The Koran, like the Bible, is not only a 'teaching' tool, but is also a history book in part.

[Oscar]

People of the Book as referred to are the Jews and the early Christians. Islam, like Judaism, recognises Jesus as a prophet only. Islam also gives almost as much respect to Mary as Catholics do. The Koran, like the Bible, is not only a 'teaching' tool, but is also a history book in part.

He may have been referring to the fact that Arabs and Jews are of the same racial makeup - Semitic

[Marmoot]

Sorry, it seems I missed a part of my explanation.
The initial premise is that Islam is a forward moving, expansionist religion, in fact I believe the fastest growing in the world.

Mate, you're not reading my post, so I'll write it again here :oi-grr:



If history is to be a good teacher, I believe there were more invasions and confrontations started by non-moslem authorities. Shall I say Spanish (inquisition, colonization, etc), Dutch, Portuguese and England as the past. Germany, Italy and Japan in the World War II, and our beloved modern-day US in the past 50 years.
The number of Moslem authorities invading non-moslem country to spread their words in the past 50 years? Zero.

However, reading your last long post, I'd deduce that you are a bit schizoprenic paranoid, and I see there is little point in arguing anyway.....so perhaps I shouldn't have requoted myself up there. :pinch:

Anyway, I have strong suspicion that whatever I say or do will not change your mind, so good luck to you in whatever you do. Just don't hurt 'innocent' parties in the process. Otherwise, you might turn out to be just another one of the people that you depise.

[kickingzebra]

I read your post Marmoot, but a 50 year timeframe is just a glimpse, not, I am afraid the whole story.
Yes, I'm buying my guns now...
We all know there is no point in arguing, as even if we "win" the likelihood of changing someone elses view is slim.
To be honest, I have been thinking about this for quite some time, the solution that I can see is likely to happen without too much interferance from humanity.
If the God of the bible is real, time will tell. According to that old book of mythology and anger, (no, not the Koran, we can hear peace frothing from its pages as we read it...or have you actually read even a little of it?)

God has protected his people before, and will do again. Now you know for sure I am a religious nut, but time alone will prove me right or wrong on that point.

My points,
Confrontation is inevitable.
Islam is only a religion of peace, if christianity is a religion of Non judgementalism.
Neither live their beliefs to the fullest extent.
If they did, Christians would be better people, Muslims would be more violent people.

For the record, I am not antisemitic, quite the opposite, I have some Jewish blood flowing in my veins. I can't honestly claim to have researched much about Semitism, but I would defend the rights of Israel with whatever means neccessary. (yeah, I know, they're killers and land grabbers... woe to the poor palestinian terrorists etc)

[Dafe]

I don't know why the majority of them sand niggers are here anyway?

Why do we not have an Immigration policy that states the following:

Immigration access to New Zealand will only be granted if the immigrant is beneficial to the government through tax payments via a working income.

Immigrants are not eligible for any government assistance once the immigrant has been unemployed for any period exceeding 1 month.

Also, stop allowing immigrants families through the doors FFS!

Four years ago, there was a man coming to NZ via plane who ripped up his passport and flushed it down the toilet. When the plane landed he claimed refugee status and was admitted into NZ.
Apparantly, this one man, over the past four years, has managed to immigrate 65 of his family members into the country. Thats Farkin Wrong!
I think this is whats sparked the immigration reviews of late.

[OMG]

Dafe, as the world's fastest Cook Islander, I presume that at some time in your family's history, your family were immigrants to New Zealand too.

[MSTRS]

Dafe, as the world's fastest Cook Islander, I presume that at some time in your family's history, your family were immigrants to New Zealand too.
As are/were every last person here. Length of tenure appears to confer greater rights.

[kevie]

Nah its cos it makes it hard for the cop too see if they are worth chatting up :P :Oops:
The couple times I have been pulled up by a cop I was asked to take the helmet off... so cop can see me..... and I spoke to our local garage, the ladies go in there with the headgear on and wont take them off ... I said to him what if us bikers came in with our full face tinted helmets on ? he said we wouldnt get served ... is that discrimination or what ?? :bash:

Its the old "rules for them and rules for everyone else story eh"

[OMG]

As are/were every last person here. Length of tenure appears to confer greater rights.

So then you would agree with my previous post that Maori should be ruling the country

[MSTRS]

So then you would agree with my previous post that Maori should be ruling the country
Hell no....note word 'appears'. Belief in it being so, does not make it so.

[Marmoot]

I don't know why the majority of them sand niggers are here anyway?

Why do we not have an Immigration policy that states the following:

Immigration access to New Zealand will only be granted if the immigrant is beneficial to the government through tax payments via a working income.

Immigrants are not eligible for any government assistance once the immigrant has been unemployed for any period exceeding 1 month.

Also, stop allowing immigrants families through the doors FFS!

I'd rather have 100 sand niggers in taxis here than 10 'immigrants from other part of the world' going under health/unemployment/family-assistance benefits

:scratch:

Edit: it is interesting how these remarks come up in burqas-while-driving debate. If I may connect the dots, it seems the debate began from some form of religious or racial prejudice against burqa-wearing people......

[Jantar]

In this whole trhead we appear to have lost sight of the difference between a person's legal or moral duties, their obligations, their rights and their priviledges.

To Moslem woman wearing her burqa is a religious and therefore a moral duty. Here in New Zealand we have no such legal requirement, but we also have no law forbidding her from wearing it. Therefore in most situations wearing a burqa is her right.

We do have laws requiring that in some situations a person must be able to be identified. In these cases a moslem woman may not wear her burqa. In other words there is a conflict between her legal duty and her religious duty. Our law is based on the Wesminster model where legal law outweighs religious law and so, when such a conflict arises, the requirement to be identified outweighs the religious requirement to wear the burqa. If a moslem woman is at all worried about the need to be identified, then she has the option to avoid those situations. She doesn't have to walk into a bank wearing a burqa, she can stay at home and let her husband do the banking. She doesn't have to drive a car, she can be a passenger while her husband drives etc.

Driving a car, or riding a bike, is another level. It is not a requirement, it is not even a right. It is a priviledge. Moslem women who wish to drive should recognise that fact, and realise that if they wish to have that priviledge of driving, then they also have a duty to be identifiable, and that means ... NO BURQA.

[OMG]

Hell no....note word 'appears'. Belief in it being so, does not make it so.
So what is it then? If length of tenure does confer greater rights then you must agree that Maori should have more rights than those who arrived at a later date. If length of tenure does not confer greater rights, then those who wish to wear burqa have equal right to do so no matter how long they have been here.

[Hitcher]

I cannot believe the venom in some of these threads. So there are about 20-odd women in New Zealand who choose to wear a full burqa. That's hardly the end of our world as we know it.

List the top 10 events likely to cause a cataclysmic disaster in this country. Some bird in a burqa is unlikely to make the top 100. Get over it.

[Streetwise]

When i started this thread it was a bit of a joke, Thats why i put in the line NO RIDING WHILE WEARING A BERKA. although my personal view came through pretty strongly as it does once the conversation has started. it has got a tad heated in here and that was not the intension of the forum, If anyone in here has been offended by anything that has been posted please accept my oppologies,

[Marmoot]

no worries.
A bit of debate makes a day more exciting. At least it didn;t get up to mudslinging and smear-campaign..... :msn-wink:

Unlike somewhere else in the capital............

[OMG]

It's funny how threads evolve. Still it is good for people to have an opinion, and to have a forum when debate can take place, though I agree that care is needed. I've certainly enjoyed debating points with MRTRS (and hope that I have not offended anyone in the process).

[Lou Girardin]

I cannot believe the venom in some of these threads. So there are about 20-odd women in New Zealand who choose to wear a full burqa. That's hardly the end of our world as we know it.

List the top 10 events likely to cause a cataclysmic disaster in this country. Some bird in a burqa is unlikely to make the top 100. Get over it.

The power of propaganda. Demonise a sector of humanity and it won't matter if you massacre them.