Free trade with China. What are your thoughts?

[Streetwise]

Hello, As you all no we are about to sign a free trade agreement with china, What are your thought regarding this agreement, :sherlock:

[cowpoos]

fuckin awesome...they will inhale as much commodity products as we can produce....they are an emerging economy....the things they will produce in the future will be alot higher quality than they are now...and free trade means cheaper products for us.....higher prices in return for our exports as we'll have no tarriffs to pay for...

[MisterD]

fuckin awesome...

Should be good for you dairy types f'sure f'sure...

[Marmoot]

First we will be swamped with cheap products.
But then, as China enters free trade with a lot more countries, their production cost will increase (becoming more in par with other countries), and thus their product prices will increase.
The end result, NZ products (which are better quality) will have more sales.

Beneficial.
:clap:

[madboy]

I think the bastards should bugger off home and stop taking up the carparks outside the Hotel Intercontinental today.

But I can understand that cowpoos could do with some more cash for some cosmetic touch ups.

[Streetwise]

have you though about the job losses, They say that upto 15000 textile workers will be out, Why would they import slop from here when it can be produced there at a 10th of the price. Get with it, They want to offload cheap shit on our shores. We will see very little benifit to our local businesses. Yes we will be able to purchase cheap crap from the warehouse and alike. BUT THERE WILL BE A COST TO JOBS HERE.

[Sniper]

I think I better start up an English tutoring class and make some extra money

[chickenfunkstar]

It'll be bad for our manufacturing sector for sure, but should be good for everyone else.

Farmers and other exporters will get a real boost, firstly from a removal of tarriffs.
Secondly, if there is a massive inflow of cheap goods, our currency will depreciate over time, making it even better for our exporters.

Consumers should benefit from cheaper goods as well.

[Karma]

If it means the sweet and sour pork and noodles is cheaper, then I'm in :D

[Streetwise]

are you thinking right. BAD for manufacturers, Fuck yea, Local business is going to die. We all will have to shop at the warehouse. all money that is spent will go off shore.

A bonus is that we will all get served by qualified airnz engineers, GO LABOUR

[SimJen]

Its labours easy way of propping up a failing economy.
China is a communist country with massive censorship (even the internet), people disposing of unwanted baby girls in the streets due to their one child policy, massive corruption, lack of space for an ever burgeoning population, not to mention what the cunts did to Tibet....
Its only a matter of time before it all goes tits up....as with everything else the government puts their hands on.

[Streetwise]

Its labours easy way of propping up a failing economy.
China is a communist country with massive censorship (even the internet), people disposing of unwanted baby girls in the streets due to their one child policy, massive corruption, lack of space for an ever burgeoning population, not to mention what the cunts did to Tibet....
Its only a matter of time before it all goes tits up....as with everything else the government puts their hands on.

To true but do we have to be part of it.. funken :tugger:

[mstriumph]

.......at least YOUR lot haven't agreed to sell 'em uranium :angry2:

ohhhh yeah - let me see - there's a provisio in the agreement that they don't use it for weaponry [of course, there's NO chance they'll just use it to free up their OWN uranium for weaponry is there? :bs:]

raises imorality to an artform, dunnit?

:brick: i despair .................

[Sniper]

To true but do we have to be part of it.. funken :tugger:

Doesn't seem like you have much choice or say in the matter either way, so how about not insulting Simjen?

[Marmoot]

.......at least YOUR lot haven't agreed to sell 'em uranium :angry2:

I'm surprised not many people hit that fact :hitcher:
bloody australians......

[SimJen]

Its funny how something of such stature just gets done.......yet other smaller less important things go to a referendum.
Doesn't really sound much like a democracy.
As for Streetwise :tugger: right back at ya :nya:

[Streetwise]

Doesn't seem like you have much choice or say in the matter either way, so how about not insulting Simjen?

I wasnt insulting simjen, allthough it does look that way,,,Sorry Simjin, I was saying the govt are wankers,

[Streetwise]

well yea thats a stupid idea as well, lets provide something to help build nukes, YEA thats a good idea,

[Jonty]

I think it is a great idea. To many countries are looking to free trade with the USA, but to be honest that economy will be surpassed by China very soon as is not worth worring about. The issue of cheap labour in China will sort itself out over time. Once the economy hits certain point then the cost of labour will increase. What it will mean is that the "sweat shop" labourers will be found in places like India. I is all cyclical as we used to see low wages in Japan a few years ago.

[Streetwise]

Why do you think they want us,??? have a think about it,

[Jonty]

the Britten

[Marmoot]

About bloody time someone remake it.
ANd I would appreciate if the price is lower too.

I just hope it would not break down too often.

[Streetwise]

mmmm ok there is a thought, Would olny cost a couple of grand to have one wipped up.

[SimJen]

Why do you think they want us,??? have a think about it,

Land and immigration...

[madboy]

The NZ textile industry has been in the twillight for years, a free trade agreement isn't going to make a hell of a lot of difference to most players. Very few clothes are locally made. Haven't been for many years. NZ is a bit player in the world economy. We don't have any bargaining power, so we have to take what's on offer. The local dairy doesn't turn around to Coca-Cola Amatil and tell them to bite the big one, throw in some free stuff and knock another 10c off the unit cost. You can either be their bitch, or don't deal with them. Same goes for NZ and China. Might as well make friends, 'cos you don't want to make enemies.

[Streetwise]

yea i tend to disagree, NZ dosnt need anymore cheap shit flooding the markets,

[Streetwise]

Land and immigration...


I think you hit the nail on the head.

[limbimtimwim]

The chinese government is sick disgusting horrible thing. We shouldn't recognise it as a legitimate government by entering into free trade agreements with them.

They are muderous swines and I wish them death.

I have no problem with Chinese people however, just the cesspool of waste that strangles them if they step out of line that pretends to be a legitimate leadership. That pretends to be communist.

When they are gone, they will be likened to the Nazi Party. You will all wonder why you tolerated their disgusting existance.

[Streetwise]

I second that,

[Sniper]

I don't, I would like to see you survive a day in the busy chinese economy. Im impressed at their dedication and work ethics. Hell, just cause they did a few wrongs doesn't mean squat.

Every nation in this world has a history of violence, so why don't we all boycott their products cause someone a few years ago made a shit desision.

(Wheres my stirring smiley)

[Jonty]

I don't, I would like to see you survive a day in the busy chinese economy. Im impressed at their dedication and work ethics. Hell, just cause they did a few wrongs doesn't mean squat.

Every nation in this world has a history of violence, so why don't we all boycott their products cause someone a few years ago made a shit desision.

(Wheres my stirring smiley)


Agree, at least they are keeping their problems at home and not blowin the shite out of eveyone else.

[Streetwise]

not yeat,, But aussie has supplied the goods for that.

[The_Dover]

I already have a free trade agreement with my local chinese takeaway. I give them ten bucks and I get all the grub I can pack into a little polystyrene container.

Sometimes I take an elastic band so that I can cram a little more in and still close the lid.

[Sniper]

not yeat,, But aussie has supplied the goods for that.

You honestly think China has the capability to use nukes? They have the biggest Army, Navy and Airforce in the world, Im fairly sure a nuke would just piss them off. Besides, they have been collecting uranium from numerous countries since the 70's, and most their nukes have been accounted and watched over by UN members.

[Winston001]

The chinese government is sick disgusting horrible thing. We shouldn't recognise it as a legitimate government by entering into free trade agreements with them.

They are muderous swines and I wish them death.

I have no problem with Chinese people however, just the cesspool of waste that strangles them if they step out of line that pretends to be a legitimate leadership. That pretends to be communist.

When they are gone, they will be likened to the Nazi Party. You will all wonder why you tolerated their disgusting existance.

That's a good point. The free trade deal is a political stamp of approval for the Chinese government and the repression it entails. I know Helen Clark will say that it is purely an economic deal but in her youth the same woman was opposed to any ties to South Africa.

As to what is in it for the Chinese? Sod all money-wise but big kudos politically and diplomatically. Favourable impressions are very important in Asia and a trade connection with a liberal Western nation like NZ opens doors for them elsewhere. Plus it lends legitimacy to their regime.

[Streetwise]

who knows. I guess we will see in time.

[SimJen]

I don't, I would like to see you survive a day in the busy chinese economy. Im impressed at their dedication and work ethics. Hell, just cause they did a few wrongs doesn't mean squat.
Every nation in this world has a history of violence, so why don't we all boycott their products cause someone a few years ago made a shit desision.
(Wheres my stirring smiley)

Stirrer :)
Unfortunately China's history of wrongs are still being written. The communist society has a lot to answer for. It has a violent present.
The people do have a great work ethic, better than mine.......as I sit at my desk writing this instead of working :msn-wink:

[Sniper]

who knows. I guess we will see in time.

So do you ever add anything constructive to your threads that you start? :Pokey:


Unfortunately China's history of wrongs are still being written. The communist society has a lot to answer for. It has a violent present
So does South Africa, but people are quite happy to let it run its course at the moment insted of claiming apartheid when apparently the white people were opressing the black

[Streetwise]

Yes we will all pay the price for the free trade crap, I would rather pay $10 more and have it made here if posible,

[Streetwise]

So do you ever add anything constructive to your threads that you start? :Pokey:


what are you on about

[Jonty]

not yeat,, But aussie has supplied the goods for that.

it's not China you need to worry about, it's the third world countries that in the grip of extreme poverty whcih are being tormented by the US that you need to keep an eye on.

Personally I think China is evolving and the political enviroment, while not that flash at present, will change in the next ten years. Why not be first in the door to secures its services?

[Sniper]

what are you on about

Big long threads about world stuff (Which are great, don't get me wrong) but you rarely have much else to say except little comments about waiting and seeing

*Sniper runs off to find a bigger spoon*

[Streetwise]

well its better than sitting here reading an essay wouldnt you think, And if you read the heading on this thread you will see i wanted your thoughts so where are they.....

[MSTRS]

Yes we will all pay the price for the free trade crap, I would rather pay $10 more and have it made here if posible,
I see a market opportunity....The TenPlusTwo Dollar Shoppe

[Sniper]

well its better than sitting here reading an essay wouldnt you think, And if you read the heading on this thread you will see i wanted your thoughts so where are they.....

Lost in Translation

[Streetwise]

yea thats it do you want to invest, im sure it will go well,

[MSTRS]

yea thats it do you want to invest, im sure it will go well,
And we could open a MacXaio's - DimSums on an EggRoll will be the specialty

[Sniper]

Is it the Chinese or Japanese who eats cats and dogs and rats?

[Streetwise]

And we could open a MacXaio's - DimSums on an EggRoll will be the specialty


We could also have deepfried maori rass lips, as a side dish.

[MSTRS]

Is it the Chinese or Japanese who eats cats and dogs and rats?
....yes....

[Sniper]

Both?

[Kickaha]

I would rather pay $10 more and have it made here if posible,

Unfortunately most people wont and will buy on price rather than quality

Chinese Quality control leaves a lot to be desired

[MisterD]

That's a good point. The free trade deal is a political stamp of approval for the Chinese government and the repression it entails. I know Helen Clark will say that it is purely an economic deal but in her youth the same woman was opposed to any ties to South Africa.

HC needs the Chinese vote if she's ever going to have a chance of the big chair at the UN. Thats the price of our stamp of approval....

[Matt Bleck]

Be good if they start sending over some decent motorcicles!!

[Motu]

the Britten

I'm not sure what your reply means - but that's exactly what we will lose,the ability to make things like the Britten.This country is rich in smart people who can work with their hands and brains,we have always turned out leading edge engineering products.Twenty years ago this country was full of small engineering shops churning out items for our own consumption,and a small export trade.Free trade killed them,probably 75% have gone,just a few left who are able to make and market niche products.Free trade with China will kill our smart engineers completely,we won't be able to make a single thing to compete...we will be consumers only,non productive people with the inability to support themselves...we won't know how.

[cowpoos]

.......at least YOUR lot haven't agreed to sell 'em uranium :angry2:

ohhhh yeah - let me see - there's a provisio in the agreement that they don't use it for weaponry [of course, there's NO chance they'll just use it to free up their OWN uranium for weaponry is there? :bs:]

raises imorality to an artform, dunnit?

:brick: i despair .................


some body a lil outta touch with what really happening in the big wide world lass???

you'll find canada has been selling uraniium to china for donleys years...

[Biff]

Chinese industry knows no ethics. They steal their designs from other countries, and from companies that have ploughed millions into R&D, knowing they can't be sued. They treat their staff miserably. They have no worker protection policies (safety, rights, social/health care), they are heavy polluters etc etc.

How can a civilised industiral society compete against Chinese industry?

I believe the world should take a moral stand and not just look at the $ value of doing business with these guys. The world should only deal with these guys as and when they conform to international law and respect human rights. Then again I live in a dream world.

Animals IMO. (again - the govt not the people)

[Lou Girardin]

Ever said to your girlfriend, "go on sweetie, just try it. I'll be real gentle and you'll probably enjoy it"?
That's what China is saying to Helen now. But we'll be the ones getting fucked.
In everything from conservation to economics they are parasites. They have no respect for anything but their own needs. Be it indiscriminate killing to supply sharks fin soup, bear bile or just ignoring patent and copyright laws.

[Biff]

Is it the Chinese or Japanese who eats cats and dogs and rats?

Chinese and Koreans mostly. I don't believe the Japs do though. OAB may be able to answer that one.

[The_Dover]

Ever said to your girlfriend, "go on sweetie, just try it. I'll be real gentle and you'll probably enjoy it"?

errm, what if she did enjoy it?

[Ixion]

Free trade is newspeak for economic slavery.

[Streetwise]

we can export our cats and dogs there will be no need for the spca...

[Ixion]

errm, what if she did enjoy it?

Trust me, no-one enjoys being the victim of economic rape.

New globalisation is but old colonialism writ large.

[oldrider]

I'm not sure what your reply means - but that's exactly what we will lose,the ability to make things like the Britten.This country is rich in smart people who can work with their hands and brains,we have always turned out leading edge engineering products.Twenty years ago this country was full of small engineering shops churning out items for our own consumption,and a small export trade.Free trade killed them,probably 75% have gone,just a few left who are able to make and market niche products.Free trade with China will kill our smart engineers completely,we won't be able to make a single thing to compete...we will be consumers only,non productive people with the inability to support themselves...we won't know how.
There is a lot in what you say Motu, especially the last comment!
We will most likely degenerate into "potential" consumers, because the majority of us will have no income or ability to pay for the cheap imports from Helen's friends in China!
Who will she tax to pay us our benefit money so that we can "consume"?
Perhaps her friends in China will send us "aid". :spudwhat: MMmmmmm, John.

[Lou Girardin]

errm, what if she did enjoy it?

Lucky girl. I don't want to find out.

[Brian d marge]

Any chance you fellas can have a peek out side the window and see what the rest of the world has been doing.

Shes a big ole wide world out there ......

scary init

Stephen

[Streetwise]

Any chance you fellas can have a peek out side the window and see what the rest of the world has been doing.

Shes a big ole wide world out there ......

scary init

Stephen


ive had a look and dont like it,.....

[Ixion]

I had a look to. It needs blowing up.

[Streetwise]

leave that to the americans

[The_Dover]

leave that to the americans

Nah, they'd only fuck that up too.

[Dafe]

You honestly think China has the capability to use nukes? They have the biggest Army, Navy and Airforce in the world, Im fairly sure a nuke would just piss them off. Besides, they have been collecting uranium from numerous countries since the 70's, and most their nukes have been accounted and watched over by UN members.

The Chinese Airforce is nowhere near the technological level of the U.S. Airforce. The U.S. airforce is considered far superior.
The Chinese Naval fleet is only larger because the Chinese haven't decomissioned so many rust buckets that other navy's such as the U.S. would have sunk a good 20-30 years ago. Although the Chinese fleet is larger, the U.S. fleet is still considered more powerful.
As for the Chinese Army, they have it over that over the U.S. based on pure man power.
However, The U.S. have allegience with Cern. The technology held by a European/American community, if harnessed for warfare, this technology would see China backdown in an instant.
Let's hope the U.S. have it under wrapps, coz I hate communism fullstop!

God Bless Democracy and God Bless the U.S.!

and China can stick their "tooo dollah" shops up their arses!

[Motu]

Sorry sonny,the yanks are fucked - money power beats fire power any day.

[Pathos]

people complain that the chinese government treats their citizens like shite.

well yes they do, but most of them are too poor to care about.

Only once chinese start earning money will they place more value on each others lives and society will improve. Its the same all over the planet. no one cares about civil rights and governments until they can afford to care.

Lately china started shutting down dangerous mines, its a small start but would it have happened 10 years ago? No cause they can afford to do so now.

Economic changes over the next 50 years are going to be staggering and will probably spark a new round of political change. Although some seem to be falling back into the dark ages (russia).

[Sniper]

Very true Dafe, but a 3vs1 fight doesn't make me feel secure......... not that it would happen

[cowpoos]

errm, what if she did enjoy it?
well you one didn't....she keeps booting ya out

[WINJA]

Should be good for you dairy types f'sure f'sure...
THEIR DAIRY INDUSTRY IS ALREADY QUITE ADVANCED THANKS TO A FEW KIWIS CASHING IN WITH OUR TECHNOLOGY.THATS YOUR EXPORT QUESTION ANSWERED NOW FOR YOUR IMPORT QUESTION , A LARGE NZ DAIRY COMPANY JUST SIGNED A HUGE DEAL WITH A CHINESE COMPANY TO SUPPLY US WITH DAIRY EQUIPTMENT THAT THEY COPIED FROM US .
REDUNDANCYS ANYONE?

[mstriumph]

some body a lil outta touch with what really happening in the big wide world lass???

you'll find canada has been selling uraniium to china for donleys years...

canadian government making NO pretence of representing ME

the Aus. government IS ............... bastards!

[scumdog]

THEIR DAIRY INDUSTRY IS ALREADY QUITE ADVANCED THANKS TO A FEW KIWIS CASHING IN WITH OUR TECHNOLOGY.THATS YOUR EXPORT QUESTION ANSWERED NOW FOR YOUR IMPORT QUESTION , A LARGE NZ DAIRY COMPANY JUST SIGNED A HUGE DEAL WITH A CHINESE COMPANY TO SUPPLY US WITH DAIRY EQUIPTMENT THAT THEY COPIED FROM US .
REDUNDANCYS ANYONE?


Well at least THEY might get paid by US - most times the fall short when it comes time for the Chinese to pay.

Fraud, non-payment and poor quality control are the norm for Chinese business - acceptable practice.

[Winston001]

I'm not sure what your reply means - but that's exactly what we will lose,the ability to make things like the Britten.This country is rich in smart people who can work with their hands and brains,we have always turned out leading edge engineering products.Twenty years ago this country was full of small engineering shops churning out items for our own consumption,and a small export trade.Free trade killed them,probably 75% have gone,just a few left who are able to make and market niche products.Free trade with China will kill our smart engineers completely,we won't be able to make a single thing to compete...we will be consumers only,non productive people with the inability to support themselves...we won't know how.

No argument, but so what? If a Chinese engineer can be equally smart, and do it cheaper, why shouldn't he? He just wants to put food on the table like anyone else.

[scumdog]

Stirrer :)
.
The people do have a great work ethic, better than mine.......as I sit at my desk writing this instead of working :msn-wink:

Only they would be using a pirated computer and somebody elses electricity..

[Ixion]

Because the food he puts on his table comes off my table. And he'll nab the knives and forks while he's there as well.

EDIT: And it's only cheaper if you don't figure in the cost of supporting the Kiwis and their families thrown out of work. Or, you are prepared to follow the Chinese capitalist ethic and let them starve. Literally.

[Motu]

No argument, but so what? If a Chinese engineer can be equally smart, and do it cheaper, why shouldn't he? He just wants to put food on the table like anyone else.

That's fine - in their country.Plus they have very little inovation....great Chinese inventions of the last 1000 years?? Toughen up is all well and true,but kinda hard to do.If the only thing we can do is agriculture using Chinese made equipment....what the hell are the rest of us 3,500,000 going to do for 8 hrs a day.....

[Streetwise]

No argument, but so what? If a Chinese engineer can be equally smart, and do it cheaper, why shouldn't he? He just wants to put food on the table like anyone else.


say that when you are the engineer.

[scumdog]

No argument, but so what? If a Chinese engineer can be equally smart, and do it cheaper, why shouldn't he? He just wants to put food on the table like anyone else.

'Cos he has no understanding of ethics or morals when it comes to business.

[Streetwise]

well igues that answers my question, People have very little idea of what this is going to do i think.

[scumdog]

well igues that answers my question, People have very little idea of what this is going to do i think.

IGUES that answer? IGUES? What does THAT mean???

I KNOW what free trade with China will do - they get richer, we get poorer (in many senses).

[mstriumph]

Because the food he puts on his table comes off my table. And he'll nab the knives and forks while he's there as well....................

silly :rolleyes: ........he doesn't USE knives and forks .....................

[u4ea]

but they'l never have the BRITTON

[Motu]

but they'l never have the BRITTON

If it moves they'll eat it....

[chickenfunkstar]

Perhaps these job losses could be made up in export related sector?

All the money which goes overseas has got to come back to the country somehow right?

[Ixion]

No, it doesn't have to come back in. A net outflow simply gets taken up by a reduction in living standards - everybody has less money.

Initially this shows up as reduced standards of services - public transport, health education. The country finds it can't afford hospitals and operations, can't afford to pay teachers, can't afford new roads. Then it ripples down to individual living standards. More people can't afford decent housing. Unemployment rates go up. And so on.

Simply put,every dollar that multinational corporates send overseas comes out of someones wage packet. The more money the corporates take out of the country, the less there is for us.

Say no to globalisation. Vote communist.

[scumdog]

Simply put,every dollar that multinational corporates send overseas comes out of someones wage packet. The more money the corporates take out of the country, the less there is for us.

Say no to globalisation. Vote communist.

Then in oh, say 80 years we can ditch the communism and do it back to them!

[Finn]

Say no to globalisation. Vote communist.

China is communist and they have finally seen the light and are opening up their market to globalisation. Capitalism will always win in the end.

Religion, Dictators and Helen Clark must go!!!

[chickenfunkstar]

I can't see why that's true in the long run.

New Zealand dollars can only be spent in New Zealand. Sure there's a big capital inflow at the moment, but that should decrease when interest rates go down and the economy starts to cool down. The value on the NZ$ will start to fall making it a really good time to be an exporter. Its already starting to happen.

[scumdog]

I can't see why that's true in the long run.

New Zealand dollars can only be spent in New Zealand. Sure there's a big capital inflow at the moment, but that should decrease when interest rates go down and the economy starts to cool down. The value on the NZ$ will start to fall making it a really good time to be an exporter. Its already starting to happen.

And a really bad time to be an importer.

Anybody got an idea how much of our product 'on the shelves' in NZ is imported? (Motorbikes, leathers, dvd players etc etc)

[chickenfunkstar]

Heaps, there'll be even more if we open up our trade barriers. Then we can concentrate on producing what we're good at. China can do the same. Who's the loser?

[scumdog]

Heaps, there'll be even more if we open up our trade barriers. Then we can concentrate on producing what we're good at. China can do the same. Who's the loser?

We are. See post #86

[Streetwise]

do you really think that are going to want to import from us. Like what milk products, Thats about the only thing we have over them at this stage. But that will not be for long as fonterra is teaching the asian market how to do everything themselves. Right through to opening a plant over there. its a win lose situation and we will be the loosers.

[chickenfunkstar]

We are. See post #86

I'm not really sure why you think that. If its because we're going to be buying more stuff from China, thereby sending all our money that could have gone to NZ firms then thats not true.

If we buy heaps of goods from China then there's gonna be a whole heap of NZ$ in China. However NZ$ can't buy anything in China so They'll have to be swapped to Chinese money. If there's enough NZ$ in China, The Chinese will hardly be able to give them away so the NZ$ will depreciate. Then exporters will find it cheaper to send stuff to China, Chinese tourists will find it cheaper to come over here and spend up large as tuorists tend to do.

All we've lost is is the inefficiency of us trying to make shoes and of the Chinese trying to grow stuff / be a tourist destination.

[Ixion]

I can't see why that's true in the long run.

New Zealand dollars can only be spent in New Zealand. Sure there's a big capital inflow at the moment, but that should decrease when interest rates go down and the economy starts to cool down. The value on the NZ$ will start to fall making it a really good time to be an exporter. Its already starting to happen.

International trade is not conducted in NZ dollars. And a falling dollar aids exporters,yes. But, since the premise is free trade , that necessitates us having something to export that China wants. And doesn't have cheaper themselves . Which is ?

And conversely a falling dollar increases prices of everything we import. Like oil. And bikes . And most everything you see around you. NZ is a net importer , a falling dollar worsens the living standard of everyone except farmers.

Moreover , in product sectors where we export we are price takers, in sectors where we import we are price acceptors. Our exports are commodities , we do not have any ability to adjust prices. We are at the mercy of the whim of the international cartels.

Do not look for relief in lower interest rates either. A collapsing economy, interest rates stay high. Because of those increased prices on imports, leading to inflation. And the only weapon the Reserve Bank wants to use to control inflation is interest rates (there are other, and better ones, but they will not use them - ideologically incorrect) .

[Ixion]

..
If we buy heaps of goods from China then there's gonna be a whole heap of NZ$ in China. However NZ$ can't buy anything in China so They'll have to be swapped to Chinese money. If there's enough NZ$ in China, The Chinese will hardly be able to give them away so the NZ$ will depreciate. ..

International trade is almost never denominated in $NZ. It is in Euros, $US or sometimes sterling.

We do not send New Zealand dollars to China. We sell in $US , China buys in $US. China is quite happy to build up $US credit balances (which can handily be spent on weapons).

And the Chinese yuan is not convertable into anything. The Chinese *talk* free trade, but, like the USA , they never practice it. I actually have a roll of Chinese renminbi in my drawer, about $100 worth at the notional exchange rate. Can I exchange it for NZ dollars (or anything else)? No, not a chance.No bank will take them. The Chinese government do not allow their currency to be exchanged. Or to be taken out of the country either .

Free trade is what Bubba practices with his new cell mate. "I give you a root up the arse, you give me a blowjob. We're both giving each other something , that's fair isn't it. Now bend over"

[Grahameeboy]

China is communist and they have finally seen the light and are opening up their market to globalisation. Capitalism will always win in the end.

Religion, Dictators and Helen Clark must go!!!

No Mr Finn..................:no:

[chickenfunkstar]

International trade is almost never denominated in $NZ. It is in Euros, $US or sometimes sterling.

We do not send New Zealand dollars to China. We sell in $US , China buys in $US. China is quite happy to build up $US credit balances (which can handily be spent on weapons).



Great then, the currency will fall against the US$, there's lots of stuff we can export there. What is all this NZ money gonna do while its in the US$. How does it not come back to NZ in the end?

[Streetwise]

Great then, the currency will fall against the US$, there's lots of stuff we can export there. What is all this NZ money gonna do while its in the US$. How does it not come back to NZ in the end?


dosnt the us has a protected market ???,

[Streetwise]

does anyone here belong to the Printing and engineers union,??? If so you dollars support this labour govt and there ideas, Ive heard recently that a percentage of the funds giving to the union goes directly into the coffers for the labour govt, Now thats support....

[SimJen]

China is communist and they have finally seen the light and are opening up their market to globalisation. Capitalism will always win in the end.
Religion, Dictators and Helen Clark must go!!!

Your the man Finn :)
Right on bro :devil2:

[chickenfunkstar]

dosnt the us has a protected market ???,

I think that some of their industries are protected but im not sure that it really matters. Other countries would just swap their money into US$ and then NZ exporters can sell the US$ which they recieve for NZ$

[Streetwise]

I think that some of their industries are protected but im not sure that it really matters. Other countries would just swap their money into US$ and then NZ exporters can sell the US$ which they recieve for NZ$

The downside to what you are saying is that we are now going to have people manufacturing here as they can import the same shit, without duty for less dollars that it costs to make. You have to understand that once this crap flows in, jobs are going to go. Half of the engineering and manufacturing companies are already closing down. (to many imports.) They cant compete with what the world can offer. We need to close the borders a tad and make companies in NZ make and supply what we can, This will increase imployment and dollars flowing through our economy. go to the port of wellington and look at the logs that are shipped to china only to get shipped back as cheap furniture. How Does that work ????

[MSTRS]

The downside to what you are saying is that we are now going to have people manufacturing here as they can import the same shit, without duty for less dollars that it costs to make. You have to understand that once this crap flows in, jobs are going to go. Half of the engineering and manufacturing companies are already closing down. (to many imports.) They cant compete with what the world can offer. We need to close the borders a tad and make companies in NZ make and supply what we can, This will increase imployment and dollars flowing through our economy. go to the port of wellington and look at the logs that are shipped to china only to get shipped back as cheap furniture. How Does that work ????
Are you saying that we need a 'closed economy'?? Jobs for all with the same pool of money going round in a circle?? Don't see how that could work for long.

[Ixion]

Are you saying that we need a 'closed economy'?? Jobs for all with the same pool of money going round in a circle?? Don't see how that could work for long.

Worked absolutely beautifully for quarter of a century when I was a lad (1950 to 1975 or so).

Highest standard of living in the world, zero unemployment (except for one git in Lower Hutt), lowest infant mortality in the world and on and on.

Just a matter of deciding whether a decent standard of living for everyone is more inportant than capitalists overseas making a few more millions of dollars. or not.

[oldrider]

No, it doesn't have to come back in. A net outflow simply gets taken up by a reduction in living standards - everybody has less money.

Initially this shows up as reduced standards of services - public transport, health education. The country finds it can't afford hospitals and operations, can't afford to pay teachers, can't afford new roads. Then it ripples down to individual living standards. More people can't afford decent housing. Unemployment rates go up. And so on.


Reduced standards of services in New Zealand now:

Public transport? yes

Health? yes

Education? yes

Cant afford hospitals and operations? yes

Can't afford to pay teachers? yes

Can't afford new roads? yes

Then it ripples down to individual living standards! yes

More people can't afford decent housing! yes

Unemployment starts to go up! and so on! yes

Well Ixion it sounds to me like China's representative in this country is right on schedule, all she needs now is to sign the agreement!

Well done Helen, China is proud of you! :crybaby:

[Ixion]

Great then, the currency will fall against the US$, there's lots of stuff we can export there. What is all this NZ money gonna do while its in the US$. How does it not come back to NZ in the end?

It's not NZ money. It's gone . Why should it come back? You buy a bike for $10000 you don't expect your $10000 to "come back"

[Streetwise]

Worked absolutely beautifully for quarter of a century when I was a lad (1950 to 1975 or so).

Highest standard of living in the world, zero unemployment (except for one git in Lower Hutt), lowest infant mortality in the world and on and on.

Just a matter of deciding whether a decent standard of living for everyone is more inportant than capitalists overseas making a few more millions of dollars. or not.

Yes i agre, We need to protect business in this country form cheap rubbish, Mind you i think most New Zealanders now have been brought up with the Warehose mentality, CHEAPER IS BETTER. but i think thats the wrong answer.

[Ixion]

Reduced standards of services in New Zealand now:

Public transport? yes

Health? yes

Education? yes

Cant afford hospitals and operations? yes

Can't afford to pay teachers? yes

Can't afford new roads? yes

Then it ripples down to individual living standards! yes

More people can't afford decent housing! yes

Unemployment starts to go up! and so on! yes

Well Ixion it sounds to me like China's representative in this country is right on schedule, all she needs now is to sign the agreement!

Well done Helen, China is proud of you! :crybaby:


Yep, that's what 20 years of free market economy has done to us. And we want more of it ?

[MSTRS]

Worked absolutely beautifully for quarter of a century when I was a lad (1950 to 1975 or so).

Highest standard of living in the world, zero unemployment (except for one git in Lower Hutt), lowest infant mortality in the world and on and on.


Of course back then Mother England (:killingme ) took every pound of meat our farmers could produce

[Lou Girardin]

The Chinese Airforce is nowhere near the technological level of the U.S. Airforce. The U.S. airforce is considered far superior.
The Chinese Naval fleet is only larger because the Chinese haven't decomissioned so many rust buckets that other navy's such as the U.S. would have sunk a good 20-30 years ago. Although the Chinese fleet is larger, the U.S. fleet is still considered more powerful.
As for the Chinese Army, they have it over that over the U.S. based on pure man power.
However, The U.S. have allegience with Cern. The technology held by a European/American community, if harnessed for warfare, this technology would see China backdown in an instant.
Let's hope the U.S. have it under wrapps, coz I hate communism fullstop!

God Bless Democracy and God Bless the U.S.!

and China can stick their "tooo dollah" shops up their arses!


The same situation existed in Korea. The Chinese nearly kicked the Yanks out then.
Don't think technology will always win. Check out Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Willpower will always win, it just takes longer.

[cowpoos]

canadian government making NO pretence of representing ME

the Aus. government IS ............... bastards!
how is the auz government representing you doll? i don't geddit?

[chickenfunkstar]

I agree, thats the down side. Because of this, domestic money supply will decrease, causing the NZ dollar in depreciate. Then our exports will appear cheap to overseas consumers and we'll be able to export more.

It seems to me as though we'd be trading jobs which we're not good at, for jobs which we are good at.

[Lou Girardin]

And a really bad time to be an importer.

Anybody got an idea how much of our product 'on the shelves' in NZ is imported? (Motorbikes, leathers, dvd players etc etc)

We have a record current account deficit which will give you a clue. About 9% of GDP I believe.

[chickenfunkstar]

It's not NZ money. It's gone . Why should it come back? You buy a bike for $10000 you don't expect your $10000 to "come back"

Not to me specifically. $10,000NZ is of no use at all to Suzuki in Japan. They're gonna have to sell our currency to someone who wants to use it in New Zealand.

[Finn]

It's not NZ money. It's gone . Why should it come back? You buy a bike for $10000 you don't expect your $10000 to "come back"

WRONG. You put it into one of your trusts, claim the GST back, depreciate the fuck out of it then sell it to your company for $17,000.

[cowpoos]

Well at least THEY might get paid by US - most times the fall short when it comes time for the Chinese to pay.

Fraud, non-payment and poor quality control are the norm for Chinese business - acceptable practice.
we'll....the dairy industry are still waiting for some payments from russia....

[cowpoos]

EDIT: And it's only cheaper if you don't figure in the cost of supporting the Kiwis and their families thrown out of work. Or, you are prepared to follow the Chinese capitalist ethic and let them starve. Literally.

well acctually....if things are gunna be cheaper in NZ from imports....and our exporters are recieving more $$$ from our exports.....there will be more jobs.....better pay....and cheaper expendible goods to buy....one would think living standards would increase....wouldn't it?

[Streetwise]

No, Living standards in this country have been on the decrease for a long time now, The only thing that has changes is that imports outway exports.

[cowpoos]

And a really bad time to be an importer.

Anybody got an idea how much of our product 'on the shelves' in NZ is imported? (Motorbikes, leathers, dvd players etc etc)

s'funny....95% of NZ consumers are relitively stupid....

dollar drops everyone expects things to go up....when its not really the case at all....90% of importers hedge currency....to protect margins and profit and stay compeditive...now it seems the dollar is dropping I've seen petorl prices go up imediatlly...when there was no need...it will be a fair while before the dollar should be effecting the price of imported oils and petrols...its the compannies profit taking...they would have hedged for years if they are smart...same with motorbikes,dvd players, all that shit too...

the other day the price of 91 octane went up 6c in the morning.....and down 6c in the afternoon....funny that....some one obivously made a call from the commerce commision....or the media asking why?

[cowpoos]

Of course back then Mother England (:killingme ) took every pound of meat our farmers could produce

and wool,butter and cheese....

and yer....was just about all the money NZ made....we also borrowed alot from overseas...

[Streetwise]

owell its all going to go up, Telecom going to do the runner, Fletcher building doing the runner, companies delisting on the exchange, free trade with china, what next......

[cowpoos]

No, Living standards in this country have been on the decrease for a long time now, The only thing that has changes is that imports outway exports.
not acctually....they are definatly on the increase....it relects quite simply in how many houses ae being built....how may cars are being sold....motorbikes,etc... more...far more than in past years per person avg..

[Streetwise]

owell its all going to go up, Telecom going to do the runner, Fletcher building doing the runner, companies delisting on the exchange, free trade with china, what next......


no no no we have slipped down the leadger compaired to where we were 15 years or so ogo,

[scumdog]

s'funny....95% of NZ consumers are relitively stupid....

dollar drops everyone expects things to go up....when its not really the case at all....90% of importers hedge currency....to protect margins and profit and stay compeditive...now it seems the dollar is dropping I've seen petorl prices go up imediatlly...when there was no need...it will be a fair while before the dollar should be effecting the price of imported oils and petrols...its the compannies profit taking...they would have hedged for years if they are smart...same with motorbikes,dvd players, all that shit too...

the other day the price of 91 octane went up 6c in the morning.....and down 6c in the afternoon....funny that....some one obivously made a call from the commerce commision....or the media asking why?

s'funny, every time the dollars has dropped in my life the products on the shelf go up in price p.d.q. - "It's not our fault, it's the falling dollar ya know" - even if the product looks like it's been there a while at times.

When the dollar gets stronger the prices seem to take forever to drop.

[Lou Girardin]

I think most Japanese sourced goods are paid for in US dollars.

[MisterD]

When the dollar gets stronger the prices seem to take forever to drop.

Not always, look at what happened with the prices of stuff like plasma TVs over the last few years...

[eliot-ness]

In a nutshell.
Early 1960s. The British textile industry was the largest in the world. Mid 60s. Import tarriffs removed. Result. British textile industry has now virtually disappeared.
Late 70s, NZ textile industry one of the biggest empoyers. Early 80s, import restrictions eased. Result. Of the big companies only Feltex is still around and they are struggling.
The same result applies to all manufacturing.
NZrs will always be at the forefront in inventiveness but who in the future will reap the benefits. Certainly not NZ companies.

[Streetwise]

Not always, look at what happened with the prices of stuff like plasma TVs over the last few years...

Technology becomes cheaper thats just standard, Look at the old price for Video players, $3500.00,, bugger that

[scumdog]

Not always, look at what happened with the prices of stuff like plasma TVs over the last few years...

That's more to do with the fact they've become less exclusive and more 'run-of-the-mill' - all new gimmicks cost aheap until there is a lot of them around.

Look at a vcr, back in 1980 a top-loader vcr was $1,600, had two heads and was the size of the top of the tv.

[terbang]

Well our National carriers airliners will be maintained over there shortly..!

[cowpoos]

s'funny, every time the dollars has dropped in my life the products on the shelf go up in price p.d.q. - "It's not our fault, it's the falling dollar ya know" - even if the product looks like it's been there a while at times.

When the dollar gets stronger the prices seem to take forever to drop.
yes.... but the point I was making....is that it doesn't reflect on the dollar....its companies making that an exuse....because they hav hedged currency to cover effects from dollar movements...

[oldrider]

Yep, that's what 20 years of free market economy has done to us. And we want more of it ?
Not quite true in my opinion.
I think the Muldoon and Clark years have been the most destructive that I have witnessed over my life time.
In my early years I leaned towards Socialism but life experience has taught me that Capitalism and free trade is reality if you want to keep your freedom and living standards. Then there are so many pretenders to sort your way through.
At least you have an opinion and make some good points, I respect that. Cheers John.

[cowpoos]

no no no we have slipped down the leadger compaired to where we were 15 years or so ogo,

what are you talking about....are u comparing NZ to other countrys?....thats a political trick....doesn't mean shit...

[oldrider]

Well our National carriers airliners will be maintained over there shortly..!
The only ones who really needed to keep the "National Carrier" were our politicians, to maintain their endless "perks".
Who paid for it? us silly gullible tax payers.
Service is what we require who cares who it is supplied by as long as it is the best and priced accordingly.
We need a National Carrier like we need a dumb non performing national railway, or a hole in the head even. :doh:

[Ixion]

Not quite true in my opinion.
I think the .. Clark years have been the most destructive that I have witnessed over my life time.
....
Capitalism and free trade is reality if you want to keep your freedom and living standards. ..

Surely you are contradicting yourself ? If the Clark years (capitalism and free trade run riot) are destructive, why do you think that more of it will enable us to keep our living standards

(Muldoon and Clark were diametrically opposed. He was a Socialist)

[Lou Girardin]

Isn't it strange how people still think Muldoon was a conservative and Clark is a socialist.
Methinks they pay more attention to labels than actions. It's that nano-second attention span happening again.

[Ixion]

well acctually....if things are gunna be cheaper in NZ from imports....and our exporters are recieving more $$$ from our exports.....there will be more jobs.....better pay....and cheaper expendible goods to buy....one would think living standards would increase....wouldn't it?

Uh , you have it backwards.Imports get DEARER, cos of a falling dollar. So things cost more, people have less money (cos they have no jobs).

[oldrider]

Surely you are contradicting yourself ? If the Clark years (capitalism and free trade run riot) are destructive, why do you think that more of it will enable us to keep our living standards

(Muldoon and Clark were diametrically opposed. He was a Socialist)
Correct, but is not the label where the problem lies, it the confusion of the "mix", the end result is the same. Think about it. In their cases (unlike motorcycling) it is not the journey but the destination that counts.(IMO) John.

[chickenfunkstar]

Ixion - Can you explain why, in the long run, NZ$ won't return to New Zealand. I can't see how they're of any use to anyone who doesn't intend to buy things in New Zealand.

You seem to know a reasonable amount about this. What you say sort of does make sence, but I can't see how it's possible to have an indefinate outflow of $NZ.

[Ixion]

Because we don't buy or sell internationally in $NZ. Noone wants them. We buy in $US (usually - maybe Euros) . And we sell in $US. $NZ is just a local currency. Can be converted to other currencies , but that is for the benefit of tourists and small time trade (eg Ebay).

China has a completely non-convertable currency (they're promising to make it convertable. Sometime. Yeah , right).

If you buy something from China, they demand payment in $US. So you have to pay for it out of the $US income you (you the country - I am talking at a national level here, it is different for small personal trading) have received from selling wool, timber etc. So that uses up your $US income

But, if you sell something to China they insist on paying in yuan, the Chinese currency. And that's not convertable. If you do have some $US, you can exchange them at a bank for $NZ. If you have money in a US bank, you can arrange to have it sent back to NZ and spend it here. Not so with yuan. you can't exchange it (except with Chinese government approval ,and then only at an artifical , horrendously bad , exchange rate they set). And you can't repatriate it - it is actually illegal to take money out of China. So if you sell them something , you end up with these yuan in a Chinese bank account. Not much use to you, eh. Ask the Chinese government - "Oi, this money, these yuan, I got paid for selling you that stuff- what am I supposed to do with it ? It's no use to me in China" " Ah. Velly solly. Most unfortunate. Maybe you come to China, have big holiday, spend all the money , eh ".

Take servicing. (Like Air NZ). Let's say you are a chippy.Your bike needs a service. I'm a NZ mechanic. You get me to service your bike, I do. You pay me in $NZ. I take the $NZ, and buy some meat and fruit for the family dinner, at the local shops.Now, you're happy , your bike's running well. I'm happy, there's food on the table. The shop keeper's happy, he's made some money selling me the food. The farmer down the road is happy, he raised the meat beast, and grew the fruit. And the farmer now calls you up and gets you to build him a new packing shed, paying you (partly) with the money he got from the shop keeper, who got it from me. Everyone's happy, everyone's got a job.

Alternatively you send your bike to China to be serviced. We'll assume they do a good job, and you get your bike back. So you're happy. So far.

But, the money you paid for the service stays in China (by law) And of course, I'm now out of a job. No income. I have to go on the dole , so your taxes go up to pay for that. And I can't afford fresh meat and fruit any more. So my family are hungry and unhappy. And I'm not spending money at the shops (don't get much on the dole eh). So the shop keeper isn't happy. And the farmer is staring at all this fruit and meat he can't sell. China doesn't want it , they grow their own. And even if he could sell it to China, they'll only pay in yuan. Which he can't bring back to NZ. So he's not happy, the fruit is rotting on the trees. And he certainly can't afford a new packing shed. So you have no work either, so you have to go on the dole too. So you're no longer happy.

Only happy people here are the Chinese. They're OK, they've got your money. But none of the Kiwis are happy, they're all out of work and broke. And taxes have gone through the roof to pay the dole to all the folk thrown out of work.

Obviously, highly simplified, and exaggerated. But in a nutshell, that's gloabalisation for you.

[oldrider]

Obviously, highly simplified, and exaggerated. But in a nutshell, that's gloabalisation for you.
Thats not globalisation but it is dealing with China.

[MSTRS]

Take servicing. (Like Air NZ). Let's say you are a chippy.Your bike needs a service. I'm a NZ mechanic. You get me to service your bike, I do. You pay me in $NZ. I take the $NZ, and buy some meat and fruit for the family dinner, at the local shops.Now, you're happy , your bike's running well. I'm happy, there's food on the table. The shop keeper's happy, he's made some money selling me the food. The farmer down the road is happy, he raised the meat beast, and grew the fruit. And the farmer now calls you up and gets you to build him a new packing shed, paying you (partly) with the money he got from the shop keeper, who got it from me. Everyone's happy, everyone's got a job.


Neglects to mention that in such a closed economy ALL raw material must be sourced locally, Absolutely NO imports, and to avoid all the money ending up (eventually) in one place there must be some exports (or inbound tourists). Welcome to the game of MonopolyThatNeverEnds (TM)

[cowpoos]

Uh , you have it backwards.Imports get DEARER, cos of a falling dollar. So things cost more, people have less money (cos they have no jobs).
if we have free tarde with china....they will have no import tariffs placed on them for importing goods into NZ....that will make goods cheaper yeah?

[terbang]

Service is what we require who cares who it is supplied by as long as it is the best and priced accordingly.
:

Hmmm after having trained/flown with Asian pilots in the past that had quite a different cultural/religious view on life and death to us in NZ (so I suspect the mechanics are much the same) I am definatly left with the impression that catching the train is a safer option..

[Brian d marge]

Been following this thread a bit, Dealing with China can be a bit frustrating. Two of my good friends here in Japan both as a part of their job deal with nthe chinese and boy do they let me know when they have had a bad day ! ( Yukiko is a materials Engineer with Mahl and Tetsuya buys stainless , a lot of stainless 40 rolls ..dont know what he does with it all but hes got grey hair !!!

What Tetsuya has found is that the chinese want the business, and are very keen to meet the standards he requires ( some are, but you dont find out till you receive the first batch! , tell you a story about some springs!)

Tetsuyas company is Iso and so requires the supplier to be of similar Or have a fully documented system. After a year of shagging a round they settled on one chinese company who delivered consistant quality. Tesuya told them that is they were to get the contract then they had to be at this standard, which they did ( except for the inventory ...one wonders why that wasnt documented ?? who was supplying???)
Anyway Tetsuya trades in Chinese dollars ( pun intended) he invests in the plant using chinese dollars and buys the product.. BUT he adds value to the product and sells it to another at a much higher rate That money comes back to Japan .....

Yukiko bought 3 million yens worth of springs after confirming the standard, received the first shipment and they were the wrong spring rate .....( I have it sitting in front of me now ) you get a lot of springs for 3 million yen at 1/2 a yen each !!!!!

Me .....the chinese I know are really nice good average middle class people. Nice people , Each country has differing ways of doing business. ( Try dealing with America then do the same business in NZ and see which country you prefer !)

If you deal in comodities , then you are going to be bound by price ( they even have BOTs that search the internet for the cheapest price !! )
and the lowest price wins ....... ( Isnt wool and farming stuff a commodity???)

The stuff thats inside my head ( A faded photo of Felicity Kendal , a half finshed Maltesa and some sawdust ) can never be a commodity. You want it you pay for it . That where the money is. ( Opps I fogot you have 54000 in Student Loans , dont worry live in Europe earn a decent wack and dont pay anything back ! ) ....... Now that WAS a dumb move Roger !!!

Still the one thing NZ has is the life style and as more chinese get money the more they will want ( naturally ) a better life and can now afford the inflated house prices ,....Many people I assume would be comming back to live in NZ , but leave their savings in a protected envionment. ( I would )

I also know that Mom and pop investors here in Japan invest in NZ as the interest rates are higher ,,,how that effects NZ i wouldnt know .......

At the end of the day ( Me personally ) I like being here in Japan. I feel like anythings possible and can be done with hard work. ( a can do place) . Though I really want to go back to NZ and just it in a park eating fish and chips ( or a giant steak burger with chips and fried oysters ,,,) with no feelings of I have to do something .... ( Things are looking up for a few races in Hawkes bay in September ..Have a VMX Cr250 now , and Franken Cr ...might receive a new Engine as I have a 94 CR on the watchlist ,,,,, ) so shes all set .... Come back , race a few enduros and the odd VMX ...just cruise for a few months .....( I am dreaming now arent I ,,,,,,,,,)

Stephen

[Winston001]

Great post Brian/Stephen.

One theme has emerged in the thread and that is good old-fashioned bigotry against Chinese. They look funny, talk funny, so any work they do must be shoddy and dishonest.


Gimme a break. They are poverty stricken compared to us and if they can make a few yuan stitching clothes 12 hours a day - good for them. We wouldn't do it. We are wealthy not just in money but in lifestyle beyond the dreams of 90% of the Chinese population.

[Winston001]

Because we don't buy or sell internationally in $NZ.....

Obviously, highly simplified, and exaggerated. But in a nutshell, that's gloabalisation for you.


I disagree with you Ixion, especially about retreating to Fortress New Zealand. But you make some good arguments and I enjoy your posts. :D

[oldrider]

We are wealthy not just in money but in lifestyle beyond the dreams of 90% of the Chinese population.
I worry about how much longer we will have it for? It feels a bit fragile at times. Wouldn't take too much to break it. :spudwhat:

[Indiana_Jones]

Fuck this labour government


<img src="http://static.flickr.com/27/51778345_e9c02758e7.jpg" align="centre" vspace="10" hspace="10">

Right ! now ! ha ha ha ha ha I am an antichrist I am an anarchist!

ANARCHY FOR THE NZ!!!!!!

-Indy

[SPman]

I disagree with you Ixion, especially about retreating to Fortress New Zealand. But you make some good arguments and I enjoy your posts. :D
In WA in January when I was there, they are importing Chinese fruit and veges, whilst the local orchards are bulldozing trees because it costs them money to pick the fruit!
Somethings fucked up!

[SPman]

Yes we will all pay the price for the free trade crap, I would rather pay $10 more and have it made here if posible,

You want Dover to pay $20 for his little plastic container........

[inlinefour]

We should sell to them, but never buy any of their shyte. I looked at the Chinese bikes while on holiday and I certianly would not touch one, clothing is rubbish to.
I feel a bit crook atm, might go have a dump. Which is pretty much what China will do to us, if we allow them to sell their wares in NZ.:Oops:

[Streetwise]

So what you are saying is we are going to be the chinese poo grounds, mmmmmmmmmm thats a plesant thought.

[scumdog]

We should sell to them, but never buy any of their shyte. I looked at the Chinese bikes while on holiday and I certianly would not touch one, clothing is rubbish to.
I feel a bit crook atm, might go have a dump. Which is pretty much what China will do to us, if we allow them to sell their wares in NZ.:Oops:

I wonder how many of us thought the same about Japanese products when they first arrived in New Zealand all those years ago?????

I was probably a little young to look at the politics but I remember the products were poorly assembled jokes made of equally poor quality material.

But look at japanese products now.

[Streetwise]

Great post Brian/Stephen.

One theme has emerged in the thread and that is good old-fashioned bigotry against Chinese. They look funny, talk funny, so any work they do must be shoddy and dishonest.


Gimme a break. They are poverty stricken compared to us and if they can make a few yuan stitching clothes 12 hours a day - good for them. We wouldn't do it. We are wealthy not just in money but in lifestyle beyond the dreams of 90% of the Chinese population.


No you have it wrong, This isnt about the chinese, this is about protecting nz businesses. Cheap crap from anywhere is a bad thing, If it can be made here and sold here it should be...

[scumdog]

No you have it wrong, This isnt about the chinese, this is about protecting nz businesses. Cheap crap from anywhere is a bad thing, If it can be made here and sold here it should be...

Why would we want have 'cheap crap' that is 'made here and sold here' if it's a 'bad thing'?

Sorry, couldn't help it but I know what you mean.

[Streetwise]

Why would we want have 'cheap crap' that is 'made here and sold here' if it's a 'bad thing'?

Sorry, couldn't help it but I know what you mean.


To true hahahahaa, But i think you understand my meaning.

Made here = Jobs Here = Money spent here = your boss being rich..

cant complain with that. unless he pays you like you are in china...

[Brian d marge]

Your supposed to have a standards authority that bans products unfit for sale.

I just bought a die grinder , Chinese , cheap as not exactly the best quality but fit for purpose. As I said comodities will be traded on price and if you cant meet that price ..the customer will move

NZ has to move with the times as it cant be a market price setter as others are higher up the food chain.

But other industries should be helped , I am thinking of WETA image production , Crop research , ( I am thinking here of the Dsir making a machine that can show levels of food contamination on a conveyer! ,,,Good stuff all NZ made ! )

Now I am not a greenie , but I fail to understand why farmers havent been moving to organics , As places like brittain cant get enough of the stuff ! If I was a farmer thats what I would be doing

I do remember an Australian biker build off ( actually farmer build grow off ), a couple of greenies and a older style farmer , growing cotton I think

At the end of the day the hippies didnt grow enough to sell to pay for the costs ....

BUT ,,If NZ turned its focus on how to be organic , I would like to think the levels of production would come back to normal quite quickly.

The people I feel sorry for are the people who cant change or dont like a changing environment. I like change otherwise I get bored . But others get quite disorientated, or have situations that require a stable income ,,( my friend was expecting ONE baby girl and was quite suprised to find two !! meaning he has three daughters now......)

An example of an industry NOT to be in would be motorcycle mechanic ,,,,, great when we had points and condensors, but a 24 000 km before the first ( big) service engine , and engine that will last easily for 150 000 or more km ........:slap:

Education and a flexible skill set are the answers I believe .


Stephen

[kickingzebra]

Works well if your boss is you. I suppose, but who really want to pay more for a similiar item unless they can truely afford it? (I suppose not very many would drive ladas, although they do the sameish job, and are cheaper)

[Finn]

I think you guys are taking this trade agreement too seriously. We've always been an experiment both socially and fiscally, that's why I gave up taking NZ seriously years ago. We've got a bunch of academics full of ideoligy and the cracks have finally surfaced. This is just desperation. The world economies are commenting on two countries that are fucked at the moment. NZ & Iceland.

I say, just look after yourself and your family. Don't live beyond your means and save for a rainy day. Adopt this approach and all this bullshit won't bother you. Now go drink some beer, watch some rugby and beat the wife. You'll feel much better.

[kickingzebra]

I think you guys are taking this trade agreement too seriously. Now go drink some beer, watch some rugby and beat the wife. You'll feel much better.

So, on this wife beating thing, do I actually have to Wear a Wife Beater shirt while beating, or before, or after? I just want to make sure I get it right...

:doobey:

[Brian d marge]

Just did a search for NZ and Iceland . Now I wouldnt know anything about the money markets , ( I assume its nowt to do with me wife at the flea market on sunday , though the financial reprocussions are felt sooner )

But it seems to me we have very little control over what happens to the dollar./ Something called carry trade , and the investors dont want to buy NZ ,,,so its hard for us to service the money we owe...

Friggen eck ..that means that Mr Cullen is err not needed ? and that Helen has been trying to move ny focus onto not important things like those nasty icelandic eskimos nuking those cute wee whales.

I think Finn is right , except I am hiding the little money I have under the bed ...what I spent it on another bike,,,well IF I DID have some money I would hide it under the bed in a sock ,,,no one would ever look there !!

Stephen

Whos still struggling with concepts ,,,see pic ( who cares if its a repost its still funny !)

[Winston001]

Friggen eck ..that means that Mr Cullen is err not needed ? and that Helen has been trying to move ny focus onto not important things like those nasty icelandic eskimos nuking those cute wee whales.

Yep, exactly. The fact is that our politicians are virually irrelevant in terms of whether our economy succeeds or not. Booms and busts happen despite whoever is in Parliament.

[inlinefour]

I wonder how many of us thought the same about Japanese products when they first arrived in New Zealand all those years ago?????

I was probably a little young to look at the politics but I remember the products were poorly assembled jokes made of equally poor quality material.

But look at japanese products now.

However I just was commenting on the quality. I don't care where they come from so much. But shyte quality is just garbage. Although there must be kiwis out there who are happy to buy the stuff. As for Japanese? I swear by the stuff.:scooter:

[Winston001]

No you have it wrong, This isnt about the chinese, this is about protecting nz businesses. Cheap crap from anywhere is a bad thing, If it can be made here and sold here it should be...

Why protect NZ business? Which business? Shoe manufacturers? Clothes? Motorcycles? Cars? With enough protection all off these could be produced here. But we'd pay 5 - 10 times the price and we'd all be poorer.

Earlier a poster mentioned the closure of textile mills in Britain because the work moved to India, Bangladesh etc. Did that bankrupt Britain? No. In fact the Poms are better off than us in money terms. (Lifestyle is a different matter).

What about all the American auto and steel plants which closed? Competition from the Japanese and Asian manufacturers was too much. So is the USA broke? No, it continues to be the strongest economy in the world.

[Toast]

have you though about the job losses, They say that upto 15000 textile workers will be out, Why would they import slop from here when it can be produced there at a 10th of the price. Get with it, They want to offload cheap shit on our shores. We will see very little benifit to our local businesses. Yes we will be able to purchase cheap crap from the warehouse and alike. BUT THERE WILL BE A COST TO JOBS HERE.

Can't be fagged reading the whole thread, but in regards to this...

Why keep producing textiles here if we're no good at it? If those produced here are really that much better to justify the price, then they'll survive.

If they can't be innovative, then yes, they will die out because the Chinese have bred like rabbits over the past 150 years or so, and there is a huge human resource there being exploited by the upper class and those with mates in government.

Protecting an industry that relies too much on labour (which is relatively expensive in this country) with bullshit protection mechanisms will do nothing for the country. Look at our farming, it's some of the most efficient (if not the most?) in the world, because they had tariffs removed and were made to fight for themselves and improve.

Compare this with the European farmers, and what a fuckin waste of space they are. White blood elephants. The official line for the UK is that they are only kept around as a lifestyle image to show city kids how it used to be back in the day. They suck up so much tax payer money there it's not funny.

The textile industry here may get killed (unless they improve). Local ivestors will then put their money in to something that NZ can make money from.

We bitch when the stupid Yanks put 50% tax on our lamb to protect the morns who're still doing it the way gramps and gramma did it back the day because they don't want to change, so why should our textile industry get the same kind of protection.

Easy for me to say because I don't stand to lose. But then, I didn't gain when the industry was making money, so it's pretty fair really.

[Toast]

No you have it wrong, This isnt about the chinese, this is about protecting nz businesses. Cheap crap from anywhere is a bad thing, If it can be made here and sold here it should be...

Who says it's crap? Plenty of stuff made in China is of fine quality. If NZ consumers are too dumb to make a purchasing decision based on long-term economic benefit, or at least consult someone who can make that decision well (none of us know everything about everything), then it's their own fault, and they're screwing the country, not the Chinese.

As for protecting NZ business, see above post.

[Kickaha]

Who says it's crap? Plenty of stuff made in China is of fine quality..

Like what?

[Streetwise]

Who says it's crap? Plenty of stuff made in China is of fine quality. If NZ consumers are too dumb to make a purchasing decision based on long-term economic benefit, or at least consult someone who can make that decision well (none of us know everything about everything), then it's their own fault, and they're screwing the country, not the Chinese.

As for protecting NZ business, see above post.


I said it was crap, But thats only my opinion. You might know better, Infact you may have been made in china,??? .
All im saying is that ,,, aaaaaaaaaaaa fuck it lets just import lots, loose our work force, go on the doll, get drunk, and not give a shit.......:crazy:

[SPman]

... go on the doll, get drunk, and not give a shit.......:crazy:
Do you have a particular doll in mind......:blip:

[cowpoos]

Like what?
he's talking bout the prositutes me thinks....oh.....but isn't that where hondas are made?

[Insanity_rules]

he's talking bout the prositutes me thinks....oh.....but isn't that where hondas are made?
Nah Honda's are made in Taiwan.... Suzukis are made in China arent they?

[cowpoos]

Nah Honda's are made in Taiwan.... Suzukis are made in China arent they?
japan acctually

[Finn]

Like what?

Fireworks silly.

[Madness]

Fireworks silly.

Don't forget Royal Doulton. Very fine indeed!!

[Streetwise]

Do you have a particular doll in mind......:blip:


Yea Yea Yea i cant spell i know it, :doh: