My insurance company is looking for a loop hole.....Advice please!.

[Fishy]

So a few of you know that my bike is very dead now due to a slide up the road and hitting a bank.

I filed my claim with the insurance company and made sure that all information given was correct to the best of my knowledge including me calling the Police Infringement Bureau to get a correct list of all traffic offences I have committed in the past 5 years.

The bike was written off on Friday by the assessor.

The insurance company called me this morning saying that there is a bit of a discrepancy in that on my original application for insurance there are a couple of speed camera fines that I haven't listed. I clearly remember when I filled the original application in, I couldn't remember these offences and made the comment "I think thats all of them" to the lady who was processing the application. She said "Ok thats fine" (I wish I had this in writting!).

My insurance company are now of the opinion that I may be with holding information from them and they now request a list in writting from the police dept clearly listing all offences I have committed in the past 5 years.

After getting the runaround from the Police Infringement Bureau and then the Auckland District Court and then the Infringement Bureau again I finally managed to get a hold of someone with half a brain and have written a letter to her and she is going to put the info in writting for me.

Do you think that the insurance company can decline my claim for this very reason??? I bloody hope not!. Has anyone been through this situation before??? I had a friend who had his insurance claim declined due to not letting them know about a speeding fine even though after taking them to court he still has his claim declined.

Am I going to be stuck with a wrecked bike worth jack diddly squat and still have to pay the thing off??? I bloody hope not!.

[Colapop]

Insurance companies make money by not paying out claims. They tried to screw us when our car got stolen - even sent a guy around to see if there was any broken glass (from the car window) FFS! Good luck FS (I know you've been thinking of a new bike lately!!)

[bugjuice]

I'm sure someone will clarify like mud why, but personally I fail to see how old speeding tickets can affect a new claim. They aren't related in any way. But I'm sure they're trying to use that to show that you speed, and since you speed, you will crash blah blah fukin bollox.

Insurance companies will go miles out of their way if they can, just to not pay out. If you aren't water tight, they'll find that little hole.

And I know some people here are brokers and work for ins companies, I ain't attackin you peeps (i like you.. :yeah:), but the 'company' is scum sometimes..

[Oscar]

If you've only failed to mention two speed camera tickets you should be OK.
The Insurance Law Reform Act says that an insurer can only use non-disclosure to decline a claim if the information is a "material fact". It then says that a "material fact" is information that if know, would have caused the underwriter to decline or modify cover in the first place.

In other words, had the insurer known about your speeding tickets when you originally proposed for cover, would they have declined to insure you? Doubtful.

[Fishy]

I fail to see how old speeding tickets can affect a new claim. They aren't related in any way. But I'm sure they're trying to use that to show that you speed, and since you speed, you will crash blah blah fukin bollox.


I forgot to mention that the 2 tickets that I couldn't remember where for doing 61kph in a 50kph zone and the other one for 63kph in a 50kph zone....... really speeding huh (and both were in the car and in 2001 and 2003).

[Colapop]

Hmmmm ... sounds like it's the big house for you then J. Better get used to 'looking' for the soap!!

On the serious issue a call to the Citizens Advice Bureau might help.

[bugjuice]

that's kind of the catch with insurance. You're buggered without it. You're buggered with it. You're buggered if you make a claim, and you have a snowballs chance in hell of never having to use it..

i might get into insurance.. :devil2:

[Fishy]

In other words, had the insurer known about your speeding tickets when you originally proposed for cover, would they have declined to insure you? Doubtful.

Yeah I completely agree with you on this one.

Shit how are we to remember ALL traffic offences other than parking fines over the last 5 years?!.

I suggest that everyone should check with the police infringement bureau on 0800 105 777 and get a list of them for your own piece of mind. I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through this bullshit like I am.

[Fishy]

Hmmmm ... sounds like it's the big house for you then J. Better get used to 'looking' for the soap!!


:crybaby: :crybaby: I'm too young to die :crybaby: :crybaby:



On the serious issue a call to the Citizens Advice Bureau might help.

I will try these guys once I have heard back from the insurance company, after they have received the letter from the police dept.

[Grahameeboy]

Fishy........just let me know if you have problems and I will sort it out for ya matey................

[Fishy]

I have problems... can you sort them?

[Grahameeboy]

:crybaby: :crybaby: I'm too young to die :crybaby: :crybaby:



I will try these guys once I have heard back from the insurance company, after they have received the letter from the police dept.

No talk to GAB....Graham's Advice Bureau..............

[Grahameeboy]

I have problems... can you sort them?

Yes..............nah probs.....................always help a friend........

[vifferman]

When in the past I've mentioned speed camera tickets to them (not that I've ever had any, but the second one the wife got was sent to me), they've said, "That's OK, they don't count". It's more to do with full disclosure than that the tickets make a difference.

In the weekend I dumped State after more than 30 years and swapped everything to AMI - did it all with one phone call to AMY. By and large, they were pretty comparable, but AMI were better in a couple of regards: State wouldn't give one of my sons fire and theft, only comprehensive ($1900 for a $5k car!) or third-party only ($410), and the excess on my bikes was $1500 with State regardless of what the claim was for or the circumstances. AMI was $1000 excess for accident or theft, otherwise $500. Also AMI allow a few minor claims without it affecting your no-claims rebate.

[Fishy]

Good man! :Punk:

[Hitcher]

So the insurance company is saying its only duty of care to accept the information you provide to them is correct is when you make a claim? They're happy to accept your premium payments on the voracity of the information you provide and only check this when you claim? They should be exposed and subjected to public ridicule.

[Oscar]

So the insurance company is saying its only duty of care to accept the information you provide to them is correct is when you make a claim? They're happy to accept your premium payments on the voracity of the information you provide and only check this when you claim? They should be exposed and subjected to public ridicule.

Actually this is what all insurance companies do.
An insurance contract is completed on the principal of "utmost good faith" on both sides. Both parties to the contract most make full disclosure, anything else would require huge investigative resources. Think about it - if insurers checked up on every policy they issued, your premiums would increase by a factor of 10.

[Suzi Q]

I work for an Insurance company in the claims department and completely agree - if you have forgotten about a couple of speeding tickets you should be OK, especially if you have told them about others. If you have said you had some and given them info on the ones you can remember then you were not deliberately with holding info. if they decline your claim you can lodge a written complaint that goes though the head office to be relooked at by their technical people. If you took out the insurance over the phone ask if they can listen to the call.
The speeding tickets or criminal convictions never relate to the actual claim it is whether the insurance would have been offerred in the first place or the terms and conditions of the insurance may have been different - higher excess etc.




If you've only failed to mention two speed camera tickets you should be OK.
The Insurance Law Reform Act says that an insurer can only use non-disclosure to decline a claim if the information is a "material fact". It then says that a "material fact" is information that if know, would have caused the underwriter to decline or modify cover in the first place.

In other words, had the insurer known about your speeding tickets when you originally proposed for cover, would they have declined to insure you? Doubtful.

[ManDownUnder]

Escalate it inside the insurance co, and if there's no joy, take it straight to the insurance ombudsman highlighting the process thus far and the fact you seem to be unduly held up on this.

Keep a diary of everything you've done, and get a copy of the submitted paperwork if you can.

As I understand it, the assessors have a budget to hit in respect of the claims they don't pay out on (i.e. the money saved) and I suspect you're a victim of this.

There are a couple of insurance types in KB - I'm sure they'll be able to give you the real inside word on what's going on... but if you're in the right - don't stop pushing till you've got your money.

[Oscar]

As I understand it, the assessors have a budget to hit in respect of the claims they don't pay out on (i.e. the money saved) and I suspect you're a victim of this.

.

Where did you hear this?:killingme

[Suzi Q]

How do you know there is a budget that they can not go over? - I am sorry but that is BS. A claim can not be declined because it may cost the company too much. I believe you are living in the clouds here!
Also only escalate ift if they decline the claim, you ahve no idea what they are thinking at the moment, give them a chance to review everything.


Escalate it inside the insurance co, and if there's no joy, take it straight to the insurance ombudsman highlighting the process thus far and the fact you seem to be unduly held up on this.

Keep a diary of everything you've done, and get a copy of the submitted paperwork if you can.

As I understand it, the assessors have a budget to hit in respect of the claims they don't pay out on (i.e. the money saved) and I suspect you're a victim of this.

There are a couple of insurance types in KB - I'm sure they'll be able to give you the real inside word on what's going on... but if you're in the right - don't stop pushing till you've got your money.

[Momentum]

Fish just sent you a pm about this?

Will pass on the info my old man gave me to you tonight.

ps: the old man owns Frankton Law down here

[Lou Girardin]

Wait and see what happens next. If they do try to decline your claim, write to the Insurance Ombudsman.

[bugjuice]

write to the Insurance Ombudsman.
is that those 3 frogs that sit in the pond and drink that beer..??

soz, couldn't help it

[marty]

Shit how are we to remember ALL traffic offences other than parking fines over the last 5 years?!.


umm let me think.

oh that's right, a parking ticket in sydney last year, and a 61 in a 50 on marine pde at the mount in 2002.

oooh that smarts.

edit: oh yeah parking tickets don't count

[Finn]

Sorry to hear about your incident but at least you did it in style mate. There's just something to be said for "Yeah, I wrote off a litre bike"

My advice is not to piss them off otherwise the little twerp on the other end will dig their toes in. Remain calm and pleasant. Do everything they ask of you.

We've just picked up an Insurance Co as a customer...PAY BACK TIME!!! Lets see if they read the small print.

Edit: Just realised I've posted over 1000 posts. Jesus, how did you guys put up with all that dribble?

[The_Dover]

Some people will do anything to get a Suzuki in their garage, eh?

[Ixion]

Actually this is what all insurjnnies do.
An insurance contract is completed on the principal of "utmost good faith" on both sides. Both parties to the contract most make full disclosure, anything else would require huge investigative resources. Think about it - if insurers checked up on every policy they issued, your premiums would increase by a factor of 10.

No, it is not, and no they do not. Insurance companies insist on full disclosure by the applicant, but never disclose anything themselves. How many people taking out insurance have had the insurance company tell them what percentage of claims they decline. Or how many people they knocked back last week. Or how many applications they decline. Or even present you with a copy of their balance sheet (after all, there's been many an insurance company go belly up , and leave the insured persons in the lurch).

Shall I mention Trans Tasman Insurance ? Mutual utmost good faith ? Humbug.

No offence to any here who work in the industry, but insurance companies are blood sucking leeches of the first degree who have made bad faith into an art form. First on the list for nationalisation.

[Finn]

Some people will do anything to get a Suzuki in their garage, eh?

Just like how some people will do anything to change the colour of theirs.

[Grahameeboy]

Edit: Just realised I've posted over 1000 posts. Jesus, how did you guys put up with all that dribble?

You are not that bad matey..............:killingme

[imdying]

Edit: Just realised I've posted over 1000 posts. Jesus, how did you guys put up with all that dribble?You'll be our Rebel Leader yet!

[kickingzebra]

Hmm... Beginning to think I might be in the shit if i have a major claim... They paid on a minor one, I suspect they didn't check my record for what it was worth... How long is the disclosure period for insurance? If I recall rightly, i only have to not do anything too dodgy for another 2 years, then my 5 years is up, and it shouldn't matter. Is that right???

[Lou Girardin]

Edit: Just realised I've posted over 1000 posts. Jesus, how did you guys put up with all that dribble?

1000!
Fuckin' amateur.

[Ixion]

Hmm... Beginning to think I might be in the shit if i have a major claim... They paid on a minor one, I suspect they didn't check my record for what it was worth... How long is the disclosure period for insurance? If I recall rightly, i only have to not do anything too dodgy for another 2 years, then my 5 years is up, and it shouldn't matter. Is that right???

No, it dates from when you first took out the policy.

[kickingzebra]

Maybe if I change insurer at the 5 year after last indiscretion mark?

(not meaning to highjack your thread FS. I have had to fight the big insurance companies before, in fact every claim I have ever made has been a fight, the thing I wished I had done is kept notes of EVERY phonecall, cause they will conveniently forget that they always record their phonecalls, and tell every lie under the sun to make you go away, In my personal experience)

[Ixion]

I guess that would probably work. or just cancel the policy and start another one. Logic is based on the idea that you need to tell them stuff when first taking out the policy. So they can't say "Well, shit, if we'd known *that* we'd never have agreed to insure you in the first place. You done suckered us into giving you a policy". Which is why it dates back to the time you took the policy out.

In theory, the disclosure does not have a time limit. The 5 year thing is just for practicality.

[kickingzebra]

See, they asked me if I had ever lost my license, I was like, no I've had speeding tickets, but never lost my license... (license suspended, now that is another story... thought I was a smart cookie at the time, but beginning to grow up now, major liability issue... fook!!)

[bugjuice]

1000!
Fuckin' amateur.
you're one to talk.. :bleh:

[pritch]

1000! Fuckin' amateur.

We can't all play on the computer all day when we're actually s'posed to be toiling away :-)

Said he who has to use a manual smiley 'cause the security at work won't let me use the others...

[2much]

Well at this stage mate, it doesn't sound like you have too much to worry about. Just sit back and wait to see what the do first.

BTW, how did they find out about these 2 tickets?

[eliot-ness]

So the insurance company is saying its only duty of care to accept the information you provide to them is correct is when you make a claim? They're happy to accept your premium payments on the voracity of the information you provide and only check this when you claim? They should be exposed and subjected to public ridicule.

Voracity Mr Hitcher sir. Surely not

[surfchick]

oooooooooooggggrrrrrrhhh
i hate it when the beurocracy gets bogged in fineprint bollocks:tugger: -at the best it's a huge waste of your time when they should be paying out-you payed your policy so they should pay out. case closed.
fight for your money. i sooo hope you get it.

[Suzi Q]

The question regarding criminal convictions and traffic offences relates to the last 5 years, and speed camera tickets do not count. Always tell the Insurance company when you have ahd another speeding ticket or at least tell them at renewal. Always check the sum insured - make sure it reflects the current value of your bike.


Maybe if I change insurer at the 5 year after last indiscretion mark?

(not meaning to highjack your thread FS. I have had to fight the big insurance companies before, in fact every claim I have ever made has been a fight, the thing I wished I had done is kept notes of EVERY phonecall, cause they will conveniently forget that they always record their phonecalls, and tell every lie under the sun to make you go away, In my personal experience)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Do you think that the insurance company can decline my claim for this very reason???


Yes. NZ's insurance law has a feature that ANY non disclosure (whether material or not to a claim) means that the claimant has breached their duty thus enabling the insurance co to get out of their side of the deal i.e. pay the claim. They have a whole department of the company dedicated to finding reasons NOT to pay remember (they are called claims adjusters but really, who is fooled by that).




I bloody hope not!. Has anyone been through this situation before??? I had a friend who had his insurance claim declined due to not letting them know about a speeding fine even though after taking them to court he still has his claim declined.

Am I going to be stuck with a wrecked bike worth jack diddly squat and still have to pay the thing off??? I bloody hope not!.

quite possibly.

One avenue I can suggest is that if you need to you find out the name of the drone you were dealing with at the time of the conversation, and then record that in a letter to the company. My point being that your phrase "I think thats it" and her response "Thats fine" might constitute a reasonable attempt on your part to provide full disclosure, and their acknowledgement that you had made that effort and that the co was satisfied.

Your best bet for recovery is the Disputes Tribunal because the DT doesnt have to abide by the letter of the law, and its as cheap as chips, so even if you file and lose, you havent added too much insult to injury.

Good luck. You might need it.

[Oscar]

The question regarding criminal convictions and traffic offences relates to the last 5 years, and speed camera tickets do not count. Always tell the Insurance company when you have ahd another speeding ticket or at least tell them at renewal. Always check the sum insured - make sure it reflects the current value of your bike.


Wrong.
Speed Camera convictions do count.
Goes to driving record/attitude.

[WINJA]

my insurance company declined my insurance cause when the car was recovered they saw the mags were 1" bigger than the originals even though they were the same style mags that the vehicle came with from the factory , the dude said to me sorry but you did not declare that modification , i asked why does it matter he said it makes the vehicle more of a target with bigger wheels . i told him what a dick he was then pointed out it was recovered with the whells still on it so it cant of been a contributing factor , secondly i said did you realise its a jap import so you dont really know what fucken wheels it came with , i abused some fuckwits there and finally got my money.
insurance people piss me off , i try to be nice but if it dont go my way im a real cunt .

[madboy]

I love to see all the slappers on here get all uptight about insurance. No one held a gun to your head and said you must take out insurance. And don't use the "I needed it for the finance" argument, cos no one forced you to finance the bloody bike either! If you don't like a product, don't buy it.

Is it any wonder insurance companies are so tight at paying out? How many people here either have, or know of someone, who has submitted a dodgy insurance claim, or has embellished it? Yeah, there were 75 of my favourite CDs in the glovebox. There was my new ski jacket on the backseat. My laptop, my digitial camera, no that scratch was not there beforehand... What do you mean I must have been pulling a wheelie at 200k when I flipped the bike? No, I was doing 100k over that rise when the front wheel suddenly went skyward!

Do what I do when I apply for insurance. I fax through a copy of the LTNZ printout of my driving history. I don't edit it. I don't blank out those over 5 years. They can see all the really dodgy things I did 10 years ago plus. They can see the bugger all things I've done lately. I don't declare speed camera fines. Mainly because I don't remember. But if I was ever challenged I would say they were not necessarily committed by me, after all, who else share's their cars/bikes with friends and family?

The thing that an insurer will be asking is not about two poxy speed camera fines. They don't give a rats ass about those. But if you didn't tell them that, what else didn't you tell them? That's what they'll be interested in.

If that's all they've got, then there's bugger all they can do about declining your claim. It certainly wouldn't stand the test with the ombudsman who's so pro-insured that the insurer would need a rock solid case before even trying! And you can't go to the ombudsman before all internal dispute resolution avenues are exhausted - which means the company has to decline the claim, and you have to argue with them a bit first.

[WINJA]

i think you got it wrong , if you think of it as a product , then you can think when they dont pay out under reasonable circumstances then that product if faulty and thats when people bitch and moan

[The Stranger]

I recently had problems with the insurance on the blackbird. They claimed that I had not accepted their quote.

Their call centre (whilst they don't tell you this) tapes all calls. I suspected as much and asked them to provide a tape of the calls I made that day and gave them the numbers that I called from.

They provided the tape sans the last call and declared that I never made it. Luckily the last 3 calls made to them were from a cell phone and I was able to match the call durations and prove that there was another call. After much argument they found the last call and in the end agreed I did have insurance.

So, perhaps if you know the date and the phone number that you called from perhaps you could ask them to pull a copy to prove the content of the conversation and the fact they said that was ok.

[Suzi Q]

no they don't - not at my insurance co - speed camera fines are on the car not the driver so it is the registered owner who gets the fine and that is not always going to be the driver


Wrong.
Speed Camera convictions do count.
Goes to driving record/attitude.

[Fishy]

BTW, how did they find out about these 2 tickets?

When I was filling in the claim form I though I'd better get this completely accurate so I called the Police Infringement Bureau for my past history.....all this hassle for just being honest.

[Fishy]

Thanks heaps everyone for your advice and comments.

I just have to sit and wait for a few days till I can submit the letter to my insurance company from the police to confirm that i am not with holding any information from them and see what happens from there.

I will let you all know how it goes.

[kickingzebra]

So suzi, you do insurance for under 25 year old, riders with suspension of license, bucketloads of speed camera tickets, failure to pay RUC tickets and all at mates rates?? (less than a grand a year would be good:blip: :blip: )

[kickingzebra]

Keep the faith Fishy!!

[Storm]

Stick it out mate, its worth the time to get what , after all ,you paid for !!

[Bandit Rider]

Actually this is what all insurance companies do.
An insurance contract is completed on the principal of "utmost good faith" on both sides. Both parties to the contract most make full disclosure, anything else would require huge investigative resources. Think about it - if insurers checked up on every policy they issued, your premiums would increase by a factor of 10.

Not completely right, utmost good faith (uberriemae fide) applies only to the insured not the insurer - would not have needed the law reform Act otherwise. Insurers were previously happy to require utmost good faith from the insured, and decline claims on the basis of non disclosure that would not have influenced them issuing the policy. Not what I would call utmost good faith.

Agree that there is an obligation to disclose material information (whether asked for or not), but declining on the basis of immaterial stuff is simple dishonesty i.e. taking premiums intending not to honour the obligation accepted for the payment - simple fraud if done by ordinary folks.

The Insurance and Savings Ombudsman (http://www.iombudsman.org.nz/) is there to deal with dishonest/bad practice on the part of insurers. Give them a try if you are having problems.

[Bandit Rider]

Yes. NZ's insurance law has a feature that ANY non disclosure (whether material or not to a claim) means that the claimant has breached their duty thus enabling the insurance co to get out of their side of the deal i.e. pay the claim. They have a whole department of the company dedicated to finding reasons NOT to pay remember (they are called claims adjusters but really, who is fooled by that).



...

Good luck. You might need it.

That is not the law now.

(http://www.legislation.govt.nz)

"INSURANCE LAW REFORM ACT 1977

5.Mis-statements in other contracts of insurance—


(1)A contract of insurance shall not be avoided by reason only of any statement made in any proposal or other document on the faith of which the contract was entered into, reinstated, or renewed by the insurer unless the statement—

(a)Was substantially incorrect; and

(b)Was material.



6.Incorrectness and materiality defined—

(1)For the purposes of sections 4 and 5 of this Act, and notwithstanding any admission, term, condition, stipulation, warranty, or proviso in the application or proposal for insurance or in the life policy or contract of insurance, a statement is substantially incorrect only if the difference between what is stated and what is actually correct would have been considered material by a prudent insurer.

(2)For the purposes of sections 4 and 5 of this Act, and notwithstanding any admission, term, condition, stipulation, warranty, or proviso in the application or proposal for insurance or in the life policy or contract of insurance, a statement is material only if that statement would have influenced the judgment of a prudent insurer in fixing the premium or in determining whether he would have taken or continued the risk upon substantially the same terms."

The insurance Ombudsman is not likely to have much sympathy with an insurer who attempts to decline on the basis of a couple of minor speed camera fines have been omitted from a basically correct list. Frankly, I think the insurance company would be regarded as seriously delinquent. On the other hand if an an insured did not bother to mention a major insurance claim, they can expect no sympthy either.

[Shadows]

Yeah I completely agree with you on this one.

Shit how are we to remember ALL traffic offences other than parking fines over the last 5 years?!.



Easy... none, including parking fines :innocent:

[Fishy]

Maybe I should get rid of my car as I don't get tickets on the bike!

[beyond]

Yeah, then you can get one of those wicker baskets on the handlebars for when you do your shopping. :bleh:

[scumdog]

Yeah, then you can get one of those wicker baskets on the handlebars for when you do your shopping. :bleh:


And a pair of those flashy tassle things that fit into the end of the handle-bars!:rofl:

[Fishy]

If I had handle bar ends......

I don't have a front fairing anymore so yeah a basket will fit nicely on the front of my wreck.

[inlinefour]

bugger about the bike mate, must bite. Dunno if you remember but in Feb I had a Yammaha TT350 stolen at work. Took the insurance company along time to sort out and a couple of things happened that made me wonder if they was stalling. I kept my mouth shut and waited. After much longer that initially expected they paid out. Good thing I could afford another bike sooner than they paid out. If it was my only vehicle, I would have been walking for quite some time. As for the tickets you forgot, you disclosed what you could remember in good faith, can't see a problem myself. The insurance company will stall, ask for more info and then eventually pay. Just don't hold your breath...:eek:

[Fishy]

Cheers IL4, yeah I do remember you saying your bike got nicked. Yeah I'm just waiting at the moment....I just hope it turns out ok. Should be fine once I get confirmation from the police that I haven't withheld any information from them, just the couple of camera fines I forgot about.

[Swoop]

Always check the sum insured - make sure it reflects the current value of your bike.
I am always intrigued when the insurance renewal arrives and the "agreed amount" has changed...
When did I agree to this lowering amount? I have pointed this out to them several times...

[Sniper]

As have I swoop. My insurance company asked me what I paid for the bike (This was the CBR at the time) and I told them. Every renewal afterwards my bike value changed according to them. Bastards

[HenryDorsetCase]

That is not the law now.
<snip>

The insurance Ombudsman is not likely to have much sympathy with an insurer who attempts to decline on the basis of a couple of minor speed camera fines have been omitted from a basically correct list. Frankly, I think the insurance company would be regarded as seriously delinquent. On the other hand if an an insured did not bother to mention a major insurance claim, they can expect no sympthy either.

Thanks for that. Appreciated. :

[Squeak the Rat]

I am always intrigued when the insurance renewal arrives and the "agreed amount" has changed...
When did I agree to this lowering amount? I have pointed this out to them several times...

It's a contractual agreement - you agree by paying the money. Of course most people just go along with the amount tabled - path of least resistance and all that.

[Pixie]

First on the list for nationalisation.
ACC beat you to it

[Ixion]

They're on the list too.

[Mattyc]

insurance companies belong at the bottom of the ocean along with speed cameras and brian tamaki.

fuck i have been ripped hard by thise fucks before, i reckon walk in there, climb up onto the counter and do a big steaming crap

[Thunder]

So suzi, you do insurance for under 25 year old, riders with suspension of license, bucketloads of speed camera tickets, failure to pay RUC tickets and all at mates rates?? (less than a grand a year would be good:blip: :blip: )

Don't be ridiculous

[kickingzebra]

This site is all about being ridiculous!!

[Suzi Q]

As have I swoop. My insurance company asked me what I paid for the bike (This was the CBR at the time) and I told them. Every renewal afterwards my bike value changed according to them. Bastards
What happens is that you tell them what you paid for it - that is the starting figure, then every year there is depreciation - not sure what - may be just a certain percentage. No one actually looks at the policy and thinks "maybe that sum insured is too high let's lower it" it is an across the board thing. if you don't agree with the figure when you get your renewal notice you can ask to get it changed but you have to prove the value - ring the insurance company and ask them what they need to get the sum insured right. it is up to you to do this as you know the bike, not the pencil pushers in their comfy little offices!!!

[Suzi Q]

insurance companies belong at the bottom of the ocean along with speed cameras and brian tamaki.

fuck i have been ripped hard by thise fucks before, i reckon walk in there, climb up onto the counter and do a big steaming crap

Do you get respect and courtesey when you behave like that? Do you treat others as you would like to be treated?

[Scouse]

I forgot to mention that the 2 tickets that I couldn't remember where for doing 61kph in a 50kph zone and the other one for 63kph in a 50kph zone....... really speeding huh (and both were in the car and in 2001 and 2003).Who's the aleged insurance company Fish......?

[Toast]

I reckon you'll be sweet aye Fishy. I know how ya feel when you're the one making the claim and the money's on the line, pretty unsettling.

[saul]

I reckon you'll be sweet aye Fishy. I know how ya feel when you're the one making the claim and the money's on the line, pretty unsettling.

Yup me too:buggerd: , be patient hang in there, it will get sorted, you will have to push a little I am sure, but it will all come out in the wash:2thumbsup

All the best, get a 10:banana:

[Fishy]

Who's the aleged insurance company Fish......?

Hmmm not sure if I should mention there name just in case they are reading but this will give you a clue... twinkle twinkle little.....

[Fishy]

I reckon you'll be sweet aye Fishy. I know how ya feel when you're the one making the claim and the money's on the line, pretty unsettling.


Yup me too:buggerd: , be patient hang in there, it will get sorted, you will have to push a little I am sure, but it will all come out in the wash:2thumbsup

All the best, get a 10:banana:

Cheers guys, from what I have been told and what I have read it sounds like I should be ok. Just a bit unsettling as Toast said... I guess if they were going to decline me they would have straight away instead of having a bit of a dig for more info on me.

[Fishy]

Right, so I thought I would be receiving the letter from the cops with a list of my previous infringements around now....checked the mail and nothing.

Called the infringement bureau back again and they fobbed me off and put me through to a general customer service line who couldn't give me the time of day.

I called them back again and told them the story and luckily I got the lady who I spoke to previously about this. She remembered my letter I wrote and faxed through requesting the letter from them. I asked her what the progress was, she said she took the letter to an officer who would process this for me....

She tried getting hold of an officer to see when it could get done but their response was around 2 - 3 weeks...WTF??? they can give me the info over the phone in less than 30 seconds..how hard is it to type this info out and put in in the post????? they said that they receive hundreds of thousands of letters each year and mine is just another one on the pile. GREAT!. What else is gonna go wrong??!!

Are there any cops on this site that can do this sort of thing???

[Grahameeboy]

Get Insurance Co to do it....just give them a letter of Authority and it should not take long.............................

[Fishy]

But my insurance company are asking me to do it.

[Grahameeboy]

But my insurance company are asking me to do it.

They are being lazy Fish........other Insurer's do it themselves....Star are just buying time so call them, fax them an authority saying that you give them authority to access your driving licence records etc.

Give your address, licence number date of birth etc on the authority.

Otherwise, I will call them...ggrrrrrrr

[Fishy]

Ok I just called them.....the guy I have been dealing with (the GM) is out at lunch. Will try again at 2pm when he is due back.

[kickingzebra]

I wonder if the information act has any stipulations on how long agencies that hold information on you have in which to supply it?
Presumably it is fair and reasonable timeframe type wording, which I imagine would mean 2 weeks would be within that. 2 months would not...
Could get your lawyer to request it, that might speed things up, but for everything the insurance company gets you to do, they are cutting their own overheads significantly. you don't pay them premiums so you can do your own homework. That should be their problem, and the fact you are insured should be enough that they can access this having already been granted your permission, in the offer to insure.

[Brett]

The bastards at my insurance company tried to make me do all the research on my case when i had a drunk fool hit my car. Dont let them do it, you pay a premium so that they do this sort of thing when you need it.
Man i hope they see you right. Keep us updated!

[Oscar]

Ok I just called them.....the guy I have been dealing with (the GM) is out at lunch. Will try again at 2pm when he is due back.


You are dealing with the General Manager?!
What sort of outfit is this...?

[Suzi Q]

But my insurance company are asking me to do it.

It can take up to 6 weeks for the Insurance company to get anything from the police. You would need to sign a form giving permission for the company to get the info then it would take another 4-6 weeks to get the info from the police.

[750Y]

you poor bastid.
let's face it, they're not trying to prove your innocence are they..
all the best mate, hope you get your money.

[SlowHand]

What if you called the policia/driving histoire thing and said you want to know if there are any outstanding fines? they might get into dracula mode and hunt through your records, or they could send you to another department

[NordieBoy]

When I crashed the Nordie the in-sewer-ants company said my helmet was covered under house and contents and that made sense so I faxed off my acceptance.
Whilst riding along the next day I had a brainwave.
Hey! He hit me! Barstewards.

Oh and they wern't prepared to cover the cost of a hire bike whilst mine was out of action either :oi-grr:

So basically in the end I forked out $1500 of my own money and ended up with 2 working Nordies :eek: :ride: :ride:

[Fishy]

You are dealing with the General Manager?!
What sort of outfit is this...?

Yes I am dealing with the General Manager, apparently there are only 2 people at this place that deal with the motorcycle insurance side of things as this company are underwriters for a bigger firm.

[Fishy]

What if you called the policia/driving histoire thing and said you want to know if there are any outstanding fines? they might get into dracula mode and hunt through your records, or they could send you to another department

Nah man all ready tried every option with the police infringement bureau. They can't help me for 2-3 weeks to type a simple letter.

[Fishy]

Ok so I managed to get hold of the GM at the insurance company and asked if I gave him written authorization could he access my driving history and he said yes. So I wrote out a pretty detailed letter explaining all events up until now and gave him the authority to access my history. I faxed it off to him yesterday afternoon and I am gonna call him back today to see whats happening.

[beyond]

Mate, what a drama :(

They don't mind taken your mulla all that time and when the time comes to make a claim ya can't find them for dust.

Looks like this might be spun out a fair bit especially if the reports they need, take so long to process. Man, beaurocracy, who needs it.

[Fishy]

Yep talk about drama alright!!!! I just wanna get back on two wheels. All of this crap is just making me mad......

[Fishy]

Ok so I called my insurance company (who are actually quite nice to deal with) its the company that they are underwriters for (Lumley Insurance) that are causing the issue.

They faxed my letter of authority off to Lumley and asked if they can access my driver history now that I have given them written authorization...... they came back with NO and that I MUST get the information for them from the police.

My insurance company have said that just by talking with me that he trusts me and that he feels that I have been honest about the whole thing and is going to write a letter to Lumley Insurance to re consider and to access my records so that my claim can be settled. He is cc'ing me into the email.....

This is gonna be a looooong process I feel. This really sucks! I have no bike and I still have to pay off a wreck. :mad: :angry2: :weep:

[Jantar]

There are three insurance companies that appear to crop up again and again with bad reputations for settling claims. Lumley, Star and State.

The best appears to be AMI and John Barker. So how do the premiums compare between the best and the worst? It alsmost seems that the best companies have the cheaper premiums.

[Fishy]

Do what I do when I apply for insurance. I fax through a copy of the LTNZ printout of my driving history.

Hey man, how can I go about getting a copy of this for my history???

[Rashika]

Ok so I called my insurance company (who are actually quite nice to deal with) its the company that they are underwriters for (Lumley Insurance) that are causing the issue.

They faxed my letter of authority off to Lumley and asked if they can access my driver history now that I have given them written authorization...... they came back with NO and that I MUST get the information for them from the police.


Interesting... the Lumley part anyway.
Had a problem with them a few years ago when we were burgled... They almost didn't believe it had happened as we said it had. The burglers stole the items, after breaking in thru the ensuite window while we where asleep, walking thru our bedroom (oh fkn yay!) stuffed them in partners work vehicle and drove away...then ...wait for it... brought said vehicle back and parked it up, tho now quite in the same spot, and tossed keys back inside house.
How did we know?
TV remote in the van, along with chip packet and half drunk beer....not to mentiuon the mess and missing bits
Police believed it.. took finger prints etc even tried for DNA off the beer, they were great, i was freaked :spudbooge Insurance assessor believed it...
What eventually decided them was the 5 other identical burgs in the same area and night... geeeeee, not just a coincidence then huh?
It did take them (being Lumley NOT the actual company we dealt with) over 3 weeks and numerous calls from us to get it all sorted out tho...

Hope you do get it sorted out too mate...shit having to wait tho

[Cibby]

Fish, i would probably stop publicly dissing Star Insurance. I work with them personally and have had nothing but excellent service from them. I have also written off two bikes and had the payout within 8 working days. I have also been involved with two claims for other kb members that have been handelled professionally and quickly.

Insurance Fraude is a very real problem that insurance companies have to deal with, and it states very clearly on the proposal form that you must disclose everything.

I do trust you that you did at the time with everything that you can remember but i've been dealing with an issue recently where a client says that he put down everything he coudl remember.. 2 speeding fines in teh last 4 years. His claim was then declined as we got his driving history and he had had 3 speeding fines PER YEAR for the last 4 years and two loss of licences that he had "fogotten" about.

As i said, they need to protect their bottom line and if what you say is true about your history then you shouldnt have a problem.

[Fishy]

Yep absolutely suck waiting!. This Lumley crowd sounds like a lot of people have trouble getting money out of them.

[Cibby]

There are three insurance companies that appear to crop up again and again with bad reputations for settling claims. Lumley, Star and State.

The best appears to be AMI and John Barker. So how do the premiums compare between the best and the worst? It alsmost seems that the best companies have the cheaper premiums.

Star insurnace IS John Baker.

[Fishy]

Fish, i would probably stop publicly dissing Star Insurance.

I haven't...
Ok so I called my insurance company (who are actually quite nice to deal with) its the company that they are underwriters for (Lumley Insurance) that are causing the issue.

Its not Star that are causing the problem its Lumley. The guy I am dealing with at Star is actually really good to deal with.

[Fishy]

Insurance Fraude is a very real problem that insurance companies have to deal with, and it states very clearly on the proposal form that you must disclose everything.


Guess it my fault then seeing I didn't put down the other couple of speeding fines when I first filled in the original insurance application form.

When I was filling in my original application form I told the lady (I think it was the insurance person from a bike shop) that "I Think thats all of them but can't quite remember".. she said "ok thats fine" whicht was a mistake on both our parts.

I should have read the fine print where I'm guessing I would have read that there must be full disclosure, and the lady who I was talking with shouldn't have said "Thats fine" she should have said thats not good enough, this information needs to be 100% correct down to the last ticket otherwise your claim can and probably will be declined.

[750Y]

insurance fraud and non disclosure are 2 completely separate issues.
i get sick of hearing from insurance people how fraudsters are the reason why genuine people get screwed. the money is the reason.
in reality a large part of the reason that motorcycle insurance claims are so tenuous is due to the risk, & a HUGE part of that is to do with people throwing their bikes up the road. this is factored into the premium but that is not the only concession an insured party suffers, case in point is this run around that FS is getting.
As a Risk Analyst & Strategic Risk & Intelligence Advisor i know something about the subject. also been screwed by insurance big time. I've had well over a dozen bikes & have only ever made 1 bike insurance claim in my life (bike stolen) but still got screwed, oops i almost forgot my standard STATE SUCKS plug 8-) disgusting pigs...

[Cibby]

Fish - Sorry, i'm not being mean, i know it is arse.. Phil is great at Star and your right it is Lumley that are holding things up.

YAH for insurance :)

[madboy]

At the end of the day, you didn't tell the insurance company everything that they needed to base their decision to accept your cover on. Driving history is directly relevant to a MV insurance risk. Whether you forgot to tell them, or whether you "forgot" to tell them doesn't matter, the insurer still needs to check it ALL out before they can make a decision. No disrespect Fish, they're just doing their job and you seem on to it enough to understand that.

I see loads of cases of non-disclosure, misstatement and fraud, dealing with insurance policies worth a lot more in financial and emotional terms than pissy little motorbikes. As soon as one of these three elements comes into the equation, they have to be checked out - fully. And if that delays the claim decision, then so be it. Just be thankful they're only checking out a driving history - that's pretty easy. Wait until you've got to check someone's medical history, who may have lived in another country, and is deliberately trying to hide information from you! But at the end of the day, once the insurer has ALL the information, they don't necessarily decide NOT to pay out. In fact, in most cases I've seen, we've still paid. But I've had to do my homework first!

As per my PM to/from Fish re: obtaining driving history, I'll publicise it here for others who may be interested in obtaining their own. Ring LTNZ - driver licensing. I had to fax thru a written request and the info was provided I think within a week (it was a few years ago now). Easy peasy.

[Fishy]

No disrespect Fish, they're just doing their job and you seem on to it enough to understand that.


Yep I completely understand that they are just doing their job.




As per my PM to/from Fish re: obtaining driving history, I'll publicise it here for others who may be interested in obtaining their own. Ring LTNZ - driver licensing. I had to fax thru a written request and the info was provided I think within a week (it was a few years ago now). Easy peasy.

I have now just done this. They reckon it will take around 10 working days to get it to me.

[WINJA]

Fish, i would probably stop publicly dissing Star Insurance. I work with them personally and have had nothing but excellent service from them. I have also written off two bikes and had the payout within 8 working days. I have also been involved with two claims for other kb members that have been handelled professionally and quickly.

Insurance Fraude is a very real problem that insurance companies have to deal with, and it states very clearly on the proposal form that you must disclose everything.

I do trust you that you did at the time with everything that you can remember but i've been dealing with an issue recently where a client says that he put down everything he coudl remember.. 2 speeding fines in teh last 4 years. His claim was then declined as we got his driving history and he had had 3 speeding fines PER YEAR for the last 4 years and two loss of licences that he had "fogotten" about.

As i said, they need to protect their bottom line and if what you say is true about your history then you shouldnt have a problem.
TO SPEED THEM UP INSURANCE COMPANYS SHOULD HAVE TO COUGH UP A LOANER BIKE FOR THE TIME IT TAKES THEM TO PROCESS THE CLAIM THAT WOULD SPEED THINGS UP .
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE A LAW TO COVER US FOR TIMES WHERE INCONVIENECED WHEATHER IT BE A WARRANTY CLAIM WAITING 3 MONTHS FOR A NEW CRANK OR A BIKE PUT DOWN THE ROAD AND INSURANCE FUCKING US AROUND

[scumdog]

TO SPEED THEM UP INSURANCE COMPANYS SHOULD HAVE TO COUGH UP A LOANER BIKE FOR THE TIME IT TAKES THEM TO PROCESS THE CLAIM THAT WOULD SPEED THINGS UP .
THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE A LAW TO COVER US FOR TIMES WHERE INCONVIENECED WHEATHER IT BE A WARRANTY CLAIM WAITING 3 MONTHS FOR A NEW CRANK OR A BIKE PUT DOWN THE ROAD AND INSURANCE FUCKING US AROUND

That wouldn't be too hard to get sorted - but the buggers would double the premiums to compensate, they never lose.:angry:

[WINJA]

That wouldn't be too hard to get sorted - but the buggers would double the premiums to compensate, they never lose.:angry:
NOT IF THE LAW STATED ANY INCOME OVER A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE IS FORFEITED TO THE CROWN , THE IDEA IS ONLY TO GET THEM TO SPEED UP THEIR PROCESSES , SO IF THEIR FAST ENOUGH IT WILL COST THEM FUCK ALL .


BUT THINK OF THIS , WHY IS IT FAIR TO BUY A NEW BIKE HAVE IT FAIL IN A WEEK OR 2 , THEN WAIT MONTHS FOR THEM TO GET THE PARTS FROM JAPAN AND FINALLY GET IT FIXED ALL THE WHILE YOUR 2 YEAR WARRANTY IS TICKING OVER AND YOUR CATCHING THE BUS . WELL IF THEY HAD TO SUPPLY YOU WITH A BIKE THAT IS EQUAL TO OR BETTER THAN THE ONE YOU BOUGHT DURING THE REPAIR PERIOD IMAGINE HOW FUCKEN FAST THEYLL BE, OR ALTERNATELY WHILE YOUR $20,000 SUPER BIKE IS OFF THE ROAD THEY MUST PAY YOU $150 A DAY TO HIRE ALTERNATE TRANSPORT . CONSUMERS ARE ROOTED IN THE ARSE TOO MUCH IN THIS COUNTRY

[slopster]

Surely speed camera tickets mean nothing because they could have been done by anyone and you are just the owner of the vehicle hence no demirits.

[villiant]

speeding tickets would be a used to decline your claim unless you have lost your licence before because of speeding infringements. Any criminal charges or accidents you were liable for could though. Are they trying to prove that careless or dangerous use of your motorbike cause the accident? If you weren't, and your accident was purely 'accidental' or 'unavoidable' you may want to get hold of any witnesses for statements. Make sure put writing the conversation you had with the claim handler when discussing your past infringements etc - send this to your insurance company. If your claim is declined, write again and request they reassess their decision. good luck!!

[Ixion]

NOT IF THE LAW STATED ANY INCOME OVER A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE IS FORFEITED TO THE CROWN , THE IDEA IS ONLY TO GET THEM TO SPEED UP THEIR PROCESSES , SO IF THEIR FAST ENOUGH IT WILL COST THEM FUCK ALL .
,,

Don't mess around. Nationalise the bastrads.

[N4CR]

I think I saw your gheyblade RRRR in mt eden today, good effort mate. Looks completely fucked. Guess they aren't built like they used to eh.. stupid hondas. WOn't make that mistake of getting one again eh :nono: :shake:

Shoulda put a rotang in it.


Hope you get back up and running soon man, AND those picky cunts pay out. Get a mans bike... bleck zx10r anyone ;)

[R6_kid]

well i finally read the lot mate and after telling this to the insurance guy i mentioned in the PM he said this "Ask them what the premium would have been had they known about said 'omitted' speeding fines. If you are able to pay the amount, ask them this, If you payed out to them the amount extra that the premium would have been would they then payout on the claim?"

I'm sure its not what you want to do but for the cost of maybe an extra few hundred dollars you will be back on the road again, albeit on probably a slightly lesser bike (of course if you change brands the only way is up!)

The guy said that this works 90% of the time.

[2much]

Surely they've paid out by now, what's the latest FS?

[Fishy]

Surely they've paid out by now, what's the latest FS?

Well after about 6 weeks they finally paid out. Just basically had to prove that I wasn't hiding any information from them.

So just trying to put some money away till I have finished at uni which is when I will be back on 2 wheels again.

Thanks everyone who helped out with advice on what to do. :niceone:

[2much]

Good to hear mate, hope you've healed up alright too.

When do you finish uni?

[Scouse]

Well after about 6 weeks they finally paid out. Just basically had to prove that I wasn't hiding any information from them.

So just trying to put some money away till I have finished at uni which is when I will be back on 2 wheels again.

Thanks everyone who helped out with advice on what to do. :niceone:Fuck Uni go buy that brand new Yellow ZX10 from Mt Eden

[soundbeltfarm]

im with FMG insurance and they have been awesome.
got burgled and got the cop out he gave me a form to give to my insurance company.
i went to our local office instead of using the 0800 number.
and she just said get the stuff and get the bills sent to her and she'll sort it. and she did.
i drove the quad into the back of our silage wagon and wrote it off i had a new one within 5 days and i got a loan bike while i waited for it to be assesed for nothing.
had that quad knicked last year and the same primo service again.
using the 0800 number is crap because they said i'l have to wait till it assessed and that was on public holidays so was going to be 10 days .
i rung our local insurance lady and had a new bike in 3 days.
ive never had any trouble with them and their premiums seem pretty good to.

[Free Rider]

hey, i wouldn't think they could but you never know from a insurance company.. they always do try to find loopholes..

[Fishy]

Good to hear mate, hope you've healed up alright too.

When do you finish uni?

Still having my leg dressed by my local nurse each week, but it is finally starting to heal up. Should be all good in about another 3-4 weeks they reckon.

I have my final exams at Uni on the 19th and 20th of August. Reason why I'm gonna wait is...

A) I am at Uni most weekends Saturday and Sunday until then so I don't really have any spare time to go riding.

B) It will allow me to get a bit of money saved up so I can buy something quite late model.

C) It will be towards the tail end of winter too.

So I am gonna be bike less for the next 12 weeks :( anyone got a spare one for when I get a free weekend? :ride:

[imdying]

Yeah, if I was that close to finishing, I'd try and hold off too (considering the season and all). Make the olds give ya some extra cash if you pass with honours :lol: