White crosses on the side of the road

[Hitcher]

After reading the front page of this morning's Dominion Post, I have been unable to restrain a hobby horse and it has set out for a bit of a canter, nay (neigh?) gallop.

To summarise the story, some person or persons unknown removed some white crosses from the side of Wellington's "killer highway". A grieving mother is distraught because of this act of despicable and uncompassionate barbarism.

At this point the hobby horse bolts...

1. Her son didn't die at the scene of the now missing cross. He died two days later in hospital. Put the white cross up there. St Johns would be really pissed off if the families of people who died in ambulances wanted to erect white crosses at the scene of death. Transit would be annoyed if the families of people who died in the middle of a road wanted to erect crosses there. Etc.

2. Was her son a Christian? If not, leave the cross thing alone. It is (or should be) a symbol of resurrection, not of random death.

3. If Transit realigns or replaces a stretch of road where there are white crosses, what happens to the crosses?

4. I am particularly incensed by what has, in recent years, become a "white cross industry". Some of these are more than crosses, they're shrines! And they are distracting and a blot on the landscape.

5. New Zealanders are accepting of road deaths. Bunging white crosses on the side of the road neither serves as a warning or a reminder. It is an act of self-indulgent grief.

The point of this post isn't to denigrate people's sense of loss of a close friend or family member, or to belittle road deaths. It is about people being sensible as to how they grieve.

[Sniper]

I agree with Hitcher. Although they are a tribute to the person who died, they are more a nuisanse to drivers and tourists who sometime steal the flowers around a cross too.

[sAsLEX]

5. New Zealanders are accepting of road deaths. Bunging white crosses on the side of the road neither serves as a warning or a reminder. It is an act of self-indulgent grief.


I find they are often a Darwinian reminder with straight stretches of road still littered with them, see the and often wonder justhow someone managed to off themselves in that spot.

[Ixion]

I disagree. I find the presence of the crosses a sobering reminder, and a timely call to review my riding. and, usually, slow down. And when I see a stretch with a number of them, I *really* start taking care.

As to the use of the cross - it is a symbol of the hope of redemption. Not confined to Christians. Christ died for *all* men and if the symbol of His sacrifice brings comfort to the grieving - why then, that is what it is intended to do.

As for the place- maybe they did not die there (though often they did), but that is (presumably) where the fatal accident took place, and the effective end of their lives.

What harm do they do? And, for that matter, what is wrong with shrines?

[Paul in NZ]

Possibly this is a thread that needs to be merged into the Metal illness in NZ thread?

Is this a sign of the times that we can't seem to get over the death of a loved one? We indulge in all this pain and sorrow and never really get a handle on it. I know it hurts but going on and on about it and no one ever having the guts these days to say, hang about, thats 5 years ago mate? Build a bridge already! In some cases, those crosses are the markers for some monumental errors on behalf of the person remembered.

I'm a bloody big softie myself! I cry at funerals etc etc but if I screw up on the road I don't want a little white cross to remind everyone what a nong I was.

Jeeze, we are getting pretty introspective and weak as a civilisation.

[Hitcher]

I find they are often a Darwinian reminder with straight stretches of road still littered with them, see the and often wonder justhow someone managed to off themselves in that spot.
On the subject of Darwinian reminders (without wanting to prematurely liberate another hobby horse), I have two words: Piha Rescue...

[Paul in NZ]

I disagree. I find the presence of the crosses a sobering reminder, and a timely call to review my riding. and, usually, slow down. And when I see a stretch with a number of them, I *really* start taking care.

As to the use of the cross - it is a symbol of the hope of redemption. Not confined to Christians. Christ died for *all* men and if the symbol of His sacrifice brings comfort to the grieving - why then, that is what it is intended to do.

As for the place- maybe they did not die there (though often they did), but that is (presumably) where the fatal accident took place, and the effective end of their lives.

What harm do they do? And, for that matter, what is wrong with shrines?

I think an official and maintained sign re an accident area, 10 deaths this year might be better. The crosses and just odd and don't really slow me down. half the time i think, how the hell did you manage to crash there?

edit - appologies to anyone thats offended by this! I know it hurts when you loose a loved one, been there done that but... Does the white cross thing really work?

[Mental Trousers]

Bit harsh there Hitcher. People grieve in different ways. The place that the person died is often a focus for those that knew them. And also as time goes by any reminders of a person are slowly erased. Other than a few photos in an album and a headstone a cross on the side of the road may be the only thing left to remember someone by. Even after 10 years I still stop at the side of the road where a very close friend died and go visit the cross there as I can't visit her grave (it's 3 hours ride away). And it's nice to see that others have been out there and left things so she isn't forgotten.

[sAsLEX]

On the subject of Darwinian reminders (without wanting to prematurely liberate another hobby horse), I have two words: Piha Rescue...

lol I quite like that show but it amazes me how stupid people can be on what is an Island nation when it comes to entering the ocean.

[Colapop]

The crosses although a sometimes timely reminder of the dangers of road travel are an unnessessary and unwelcome addition to the roadside. While I do not begrudge the greivers right to grieve I do not see that putting croses and shrines up at the accident achieves anything for the rest of us. They are a distraction to good driving at best, at worst a danger and an eyesore. I have heard (only anecdotally) that people stopping at these places, to tend these quasi-graves, actually caused accidents by the placement of their own vehicles.

Having dealt with PCC and Transit during recent re-alignments I can inform you all that the crosses that are left on the roadside are considered rubbish and removed after a period of time by contractors.

[Marknz]

I agree that these crosses tend to be a distraction more than anything else, and that is the last thing we need on the road, especially as motorcyclists.

It is my own personal view that two or three well decorated crosses out in the Wairarapa may well have cost the life of one of our young fellas last year ( or maybe it was the year before?). I don't remember his name, but the young fella that was riding with Jimbo and lost his life might have seen those crosses on the left side of the road and maybe taking too long a peek... he was a good church boy so may have been paying respects in his own way... but that sincere act "may" have been what caused him to drift into the other lane.

Who knows, I'm not a crash scene investigator, but that was my opinion having been out and surveyed the crash site while paying my own respects to him.

Food for thought?

And just incase any of you consider this post denegrating of the young fellas name/memory, that is not my intention. It is simply to add value to the original post and no ill intent is meant.

[sAsLEX]

This thread reminded me of an incident on the Ngarea overbridge in south Taranaki, the day before a car had crashed into it and burst into flames with the obvious result. Now this bride is a dangerous mother fuckin thing single lane sharp turn in a 80 zone I think.

Anyways the next day a unmarked cop car, detective from the looks, pulls over and stops without indicating halfway along the bridge with what looked like family in the car and in the process nearly caused another significant pile up.

My point? Should another persons greiving end up causing more death is that fair? As pointed out by some above the crosses and people on the road side can be a distraction to drivers who stuggle to keep their vehicles on the road with out it.

[Hitcher]

This thread reminded me of an incident on the Ngarea overbridge in south Taranaki
Ngaere (halfway between Stratford and Eltham, pronounced "nyree" by the locals). This railbridge of death has been replaced with a dirty great culvert.

[Motu]

The crosses don't do much for me other than get my mind trying to recreat a fatal crash in an unlikely spot.The big yellow signs with a smiley face and ''No Road Deaths in Rodney County this Month''...then later a sad face with the number of deaths is a bigger reminder and incentive to take it easy for me.

There certainly seems to be a preoccupation with grieving,it's almost like those ''other culture'' funerals where you get cred for how much wailing and screaming you do.Like the boi racer cars and the RIP signs and the rear window cover in some script.I wear black....because it doesn't show the dirt....

[u4ea]

umm with no disrepect to the dead or greiving,these croosses tell me of carnage and its not nice.it does mke the mind wander when on the road.wouldn t it be better to remember our dear ones in a more serene place??

[Paul in NZ]

I wear black....because it doesn't show the dirt....

Damn - I thought you were a fellow Johnny Cash fan...

"Man In Black"

Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,
Why you never see bright colors on my back,
And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone.
Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.

I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down,
Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of town,
I wear it for the prisoner who has long paid for his crime,
But is there because he's a victim of the times.

I wear the black for those who never read,
Or listened to the words that Jesus said,
About the road to happiness through love and charity,
Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose,
In our streak of lightnin' cars and fancy clothes,
But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back,
Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black.

I wear it for the sick and lonely old,
For the reckless ones whose bad trip left them cold,
I wear the black in mournin' for the lives that could have been,
Each week we lose a hundred fine young men.

And, I wear it for the thousands who have died,
Believen' that the Lord was on their side,
I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died,
Believen' that we all were on their side.

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,
And things need changin' everywhere you go,
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,
And tell the world that everything's OK,
But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,
'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Black.

[u4ea]

nice ode there paul

[Lias]

Personally I dont think the crosses should be onthe sides of the road. Just find them distracting and annoying.

[BuFfY]

There are hundreds of different things on the side of the road to distract drivers/riders... such as signs for different venues etc yet I haven't heard anyone saying how distracting they are! On the way to Whitianga for new years there were all these signs on the side of the road saying JAFFA and all these silly little sayings. This is distracting.. you have to read that! Yet the little white crosses simply show you that someone died here... they are a symbol and up for interpretation. And personally they do get me to slow down... they make me realise that someone was distracted here in some way and maybe I should concentrate going down this strip of road

[MisterD]

On the subject of Darwinian reminders (without wanting to prematurely liberate another hobby horse), I have two words: Piha Rescue...

If that hooby horse does get free, I'm more than happy to give it space on my soap-box....why anyone would paddle beyong ankle-depth at Piha is beyond me...

[Big Dave]

I walk in to AMPS and Robert upstairs says

'you never have to sort your washing do you.'

'Black.............like a pastel black' - Spinal Tap.

[Motu]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ]Damn - I thought you were a fellow Johnny Cash fan...
QUOTE]

'Course I am,but couldn't be bothered putting in a verse from Man in Black...I figured those who know the song would run it through their head - thanks for the effort.I'd love to go to the movie,but my wife hates people who don't sing in tune,,,she doesn't see the irony.

[Ixion]

It is interesting how many people claim they are a distraction

yet, when you think about it, they are only one item in a great mass of stuff by the roadside. Are bushes a distraction? trees? Phone poles ? Cattle ? marker posts ?

No, of course not. Why then are crosses a distraction?

Presumably, because people NOTICE them. You don't actually notice the phone poles as you ride past. But the crosses , people do notice them. And feel uncomfortable , they are a momento mori, a reminder of our mortality .

Most people find that reminder uncomrtable - we don't LIKE being reminded that we too are moral and must soon die. So they resent the reminder - it is "distracting"

All of which would seem to indicate that the crosses work! They make people uncomfortable. They are noticed.

The "distraction" of which folk complain is the niggling thought "uh , someone died here - DANGER - Maybe I'm not immortal and bulletproof either - maybe I should slow down". We don't like that niggling thought.

(wouldn't put one up m'self btw)

[Squeak the Rat]

No, of course not. Why then are crosses a distraction?

As humans we gravitate towards what we are thinking about. What's [arguably] the number one rule when cornering? Look where you are going, don't fixate on the tree, ditch, pothole, powerpole etc because that's where you'll head.

Athletes these days mentally picture the perfect shot, throw, putt whatever, and this influences their actual actions. Imagining a bad shot, throw or corner will have the opposite effect.

Every time I see a cross on the side of the road I get a mental picture of a grizzly road crash.

These are the last thoughts that I wan't in my head as I'm negotiating a series of corners at 100km/hr.

[Nitzer]

These are the last thoughts that I wan't in my head as I'm negotiating a series of corners at 100km/hr.

or maybe they can act as a timely reminder to be careful when conering at 100km and maybe drop your speed a bit.

I don't have a problem with the white crosses, there are plenty of other objects on the road that are far more distracting.

[Ixion]

..

Every time I see a cross on the side of the road I get a mental picture of a grizzly road crash.

These are the last thoughts that I wan't in my head as I'm negotiating a series of corners at 100km/hr.

I would have thought these would be the FIRST thoughts you would want in your mind as you negotiate a series of 80kph corners at 100kph ?

What you say just shows that the crosses work. They make people think, and slow down. I could accept your argument if this was about crosses at a racetrack. But it's a public road, not a race track. If you're going so fast that a mental image of a grisley crash unsettles you, then SLOW DOWN.

Answer this - if the poor souls to whose memory the crosses are erected , had themselves seen a cross at the point they crashed, would they perhaps have had a mental picture of a grisley crash AND SLOWED DOWN. thus NOT crashing

(circular argument of course, if they don't crash there is no cross. but y'know what I mean)

[Patrick]

Same. Timely reminders for all I think. Sure reminds me. Keeps the kids occupied counting them on long journeys...

[ZeroIndex]

haha, in south africa... if they did crosses where people died, the highway would have *WHITE-PICKET-FENCES* HAHA, so cruel and harsh...

[sAsLEX]

Answer this - if the poor souls to whose memory the crosses are erected , had themselves seen a cross at the point they crashed, would they perhaps have had a mental picture of a grisley crash AND SLOWED DOWN. thus NOT crashing


May of target fixated and only added to the white mess on the side of the road!

Going on from the dont see the gorilla thread does this not point out that people see the crosses as a sign of danger and focus on them maybe missing the diesel on the road etc where as a bush aint really a sign of danger?

[madboy]

I can't say I care one way or another on white crosses. I don't do the whole mourning thing myself. But then I've never had anyone I was THAT close to die in a road accident. I was at Flyin's funeral, I've been to the accident site. That is the one corner where I do slow down and think "what if" specifically because I do know "what did". Other than that, there are no white crosses that slow me down nor distract me. If I'm in a bored moment with spare mental capacity to think "what if", it's usually more like "WTF? How did they do that here?"

But if we put aside the emotion and think of this from another angle - what if I go and put up a sign on the side of some road saying "Madboy was here". People call that littering. Sure, pandering to my ego may not be a valid reason for putting a sign on the side of the road, but is mourning a loved one's death also a valid reason? How about we also put signs up where people have had serious accidents that did not result in death? "Johnny crashed his WRX here, and ended up in hospital for six months, rehab for years for his brain injury, doesn't recognise his family and will forever be dependant on third parties for the next 50 years until he dies of natural causes." Is that a valid reason for a sign? I mean, your son's brain, personality and executive functioning died at that spot - should that be noted too?

[ZeroIndex]

Damn - I thought you were a fellow Johnny Cash fan...

haha, Johnny Cash is the man... did you hear the Nine Inch Nails cover he did of 'Hurt'?

[Ixion]

..How about we also put signs up where people have had serious accidents that did not result in death? "Johnny crashed his WRX here, and ended up in hospital for six months, rehab for years for his brain injury, doesn't recognise his family and will forever be dependant on third parties for the next 50 years until he dies of natural causes." Is that a valid reason for a sign? I mean, your son's brain, personality and executive functioning died at that spot - should that be noted too?

Good idea. I think in the USA, some State or other used to deliberately leave car wrecks (ie the smashed up cars) by the roadside, as a similar reminder.

Anything that gets people to think about what they're doing,and if needed , slow down, has got to be good.

[ZeroIndex]

Good idea. I think in the USA, some State or other used to deliberately leave car wrecks (ie the smashed up cars) by the roadside, as a similar reminder.

Anything that gets people to think about what they're doing,and if needed , slow down, has got to be good.
nah, it's for people who need free spare parts for their POS cage

[Lou Girardin]

I'm with Hitcher here. They're like a bloody scoreboard at times. Then you have flowers, lei's and bloody twirly things all over them as well.
I don't give a damn that dazza died right there and took three of his mates with him.
What's next? Are they going to bury people at the side of the road?

[RantyDave]

"Johnny crashed his WRX here, and ended up in hospital for six months, rehab for years for his brain injury, doesn't recognise his family and will forever be dependant on third parties for the next 50 years until he dies of natural causes." Is that a valid reason for a sign?
Yes, yes it is. The countryside should be littered with pictures of Charles Darwin looking thoroughly irritated.

Dave

[Sniper]

haha, in south africa... if they did crosses where people died, the highway would have *WHITE-PICKET-FENCES* HAHA, so cruel and harsh...

Bwhahahaha, imagine standing near any taxi rank. :clap:

Although, they would dissapear as fast as they appear, people need firewood and roofs for the lokasies!

[Beemer]

I actually thought of doing a book on the white crosses at one point, telling the stories behind not only the deaths but the lives of those behind them. But I never did - not an easy task.

I have two responses when I see them - if I have attended the accident (I was a newspaper photographer for a while) or written about the death, I tend to have a quiet think about the circumstances of the crash and what could have been done to avoid it, and I think about the people who died. However, if I see them in a place where I cannot understand how the hell someone could die there (especially if you know it was a one-car accident in the middle of the day in good driving conditions), I often get a bit distracted, thinking "how the hell could you kill yourself HERE?" And therein lies the problem.

While it is nice to remember loved ones, I don't believe that where they died is the place to do it, I feel where they LIVED is more appropriate. Visit the places where they had fun, enjoyed themselves or spent a major part of their lives. I would feel dreadful visiting the side of the road if a loved one of mine had died there. I would rather visit the beach or a park or somewhere I had happy memories of them. I don't want to visit the hospice where my father died - it holds nothing but bad memories for me. I think of him when I pick up a Reader's Digest (we had battles over the "it pays to enrich your word power") or I see horses (he started his working life as a shepherd). I don't visit cemeteries for the same reason - I believe when you're dead, you're dead - and the place you died is irrelevant unless it holds some special significance - like Erebus, Gallipoli, etc.

I saw a decorated cross (heaps of flowers, etc) on a farm fence today and I actually thought of the people who had to live there. It's bad enough to know someone died outside your home, but to be constantly reminded of it by a tribute like this must be horrible. A young girl was killed in a car accident near Manakau many years ago and I fully expected a white cross to appear on the power pole her car was wrapped around after colliding with a truck. Instead, her parents approached the business it happened outside and there is a rose climbing up the power pole. I still think of her when I see it, but it's a more private tribute. I think that is the main reason I wouldn't want a cross erected in memory of anyone I lost in an accident - I don't want others to be reminded of my grief or to even be aware of it unless I tell them.

[erik]

Crosses don't bug me. I'm not religious and don't recognise any religious symbolism in them. They just serve as a sad reminder of what can happen.

[Biff]

Do what they do in they UK - allow them for a fixed period of time after the tragic event, then take them down or they'll get removed for you. The arguement up there is that within 10+ years the carriageways could be littered with tend of thousands of these things, if you simply allow anyone to stick one up wherever they like and that they're distracting.

IMO..
Mildly distracting? Yup.
Reminds me we're all mortal? Yup.
Do what the poms do? Yup.


Imagine this 'craze' began about two thousand or even two hundred years ago, and nobody had nipped this thing in the bud. Farq.

[N4CR]

I want an inverted one. HAIL SATAN!!! That will:Pokey: :psst: :lol: get some attention for sure! :not:

[TonyB]

Personally I can see why people want to put up crosses. But I think they are an unnessesary distraction which may actually contibute to accidents rather than prevent them.

If a driver/ rider rounds a tricky bend feeling like they are going too fast and then sees a row of white crosses it's not going to help their state of mind at all. Infact it may cause panic and lead to them fixing their vision on the crosses, which as we now is about where they will end up.

[Jackrat]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ]Damn - I thought you were a fellow Johnny Cash fan...
QUOTE]

'Course I am,but couldn't be bothered putting in a verse from Man in Black...I figured those who know the song would run it through their head - thanks for the effort.I'd love to go to the movie,but my wife hates people who don't sing in tune,,,she doesn't see the irony.

Go by yourself,well worth it.
Or you could just wait til I get the DVD.

An white crosses,only time I think about them is when somebody else mentions them.
Suppose I could put one up for my Bro'.
Wouldn't bring him back but..

[FROSTY]

By an Irish band that used to play in Auckland.
The song is actually called white crosses.

The words go something like
white crosses by the roadside -each and every one --somebodys daughter ,somebodys son. You can shove ya fucken booze bus and ya stupid TV ads --But white crosses by the roadside and I ease up on the gas.
White crosses by the roadside mean weget home alive.

Ive fucked up the words but hopefully not the meaning.

[terbang]

Have no problem with them being there and find them a very effective reminder. They don't distract me any more than any of the other propoganda that various authorities stick up on the road side (Like the JAFFA ones on SH 2) to try and shock us into staying alive.

[Macktheknife]

By an Irish band that used to play in Auckland.
The song is actually called white crosses.

The words go something like
white crosses by the roadside -each and every one --somebodys daughter ,somebodys son. You can shove ya fucken booze bus and ya stupid TV ads --But white crosses by the roadside and I ease up on the gas.
White crosses by the roadside mean we get home alive.

.
I've heard that song, its great!
I personally have no problem with them, in fact I think that many people who otherwise would be serious dumbasses are provoked into slowing down when reminded.
I kind of agree with the whole idea but also see the value of removing them after a set period of time. This also lets you know if there is still a bunch of them there after the set time is over then maybe there is a problem with this corner!

[Indoo]

Have no problem with them being there and find them a very effective reminder. They don't distract me any more than any of the other propoganda that various authorities stick up on the road side (Like the JAFFA ones on SH 2) to try and shock us into staying alive.

Ditto, I don't really see how a small cross can be that distracting anymore than anything else we face on the roads on a daily basis. I see one and it might depending on the peice of road give me a heads up to take a bit more care but nothing more than that.

[metric]

Good idea. I think in the USA, some State or other used to deliberately leave car wrecks (ie the smashed up cars) by the roadside, as a similar reminder.

Anything that gets people to think about what they're doing,and if needed , slow down, has got to be good.

I remember them doing something along these lines to this up north a few summers ago... great idea... definitely makes you slow down to think of the 'what ifs'

[metric]

I want an inverted one. HAIL SATAN!!! That will:Pokey: :psst: :lol: get some attention for sure! :not:

actually, st peter was crucified on an upside down cross... so not particularly satanic after all

[metric]

...and for the record I like that English idea too - give them a timeframe of 5 years perhaps

[Edbear]

Don't particularly agree with them but don't find them particularly distracting either. They do make the thought cross (!) my mind as to what may have happened there. There's one locally with the inscription, "Sunstrike causes blindness!" which obviously explains the death. UNfortunately it is on a corner and it took a few passes over a few trips to actually read the sign as I was concentrating on the corner! If I'd tried to read it fully the first time, I could have crashed! Regardless of distractions, one should primarily be concentrating on the road! CAn always stop and go back to check on it.

[Scorpygirl]

I don't really have an opinion on the white crosses. I find the ones that are more highly decorated to be more of a distraction. One thing that really p'ed me off, was Easter (?) last year when they first put up the JAFFA signs on highway 27/2. We were following a vehicle and everytime they came to one of those signs they slowed down to about 60km (on a 100km, give or take, road) so they could read the signs. :brick: This guy was an accident waiting to happen!! :bash: Needless to say as soon as we could we passed him! :)

[Madmax]

I just say set them on fire (would look cool and piss a lot of people off)

:crazy:

[Skyryder]

Not something I given a lot of thought to. Just hope that I never have to put one down but then I'm not too sure that I would. There are better places for me to pay by respects to member(s) of my family than where they died.

Skyryder

[Smorg]

Who gives a shit if theres a white cross on the side of the road here and there? What else are you going to put there.......waterslides?

[Finn]

On my way back from the Whyrapper, I noted a tree with 4 differant crosses on it. Wouldn't it be a better idea to cut the tree down, then people would stop hitting the fucking thing and killing themselves.

[scumdog]

Get rid off the crosses - saves any 'religious' slant on the idea for a start.

But mainly because they look too 'nice' - a skull silhouette nailed to a post would have more impact.

[Finn]

Get rid off the crosses - saves any 'religious' slant on the idea for a start.

But mainly because they look too 'nice' - a skull silhouette nailed to a post would have more impact.

Or maybe just leave the wreck alone by the side of the road. I know they already do this up north but mainly just for breakdowns, not accidents.

[Swoop]

Get rid off the crosses - saves any 'religious' slant on the idea for a start.

But mainly because they look too 'nice' - a skull silhouette nailed to a post would have more impact.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :yeah: :yeah:

[NC]

It's reminds people that a life can easly be wasted...:bye:

[Motu]

Jeez,tell me about it.....

[Big Dave]

I see the little crosses and think 'careful - bad shit has gone down here' and ride on.

Scumdog you metrosexual softie - bring back heads on pikes on the castle wall i say!

[Smorg]

I see the little crosses and think 'careful - bad shit has gone down here' and ride on.


which is exactly the point of them, to remind people to be carefull

[Edbear]

which is exactly the point of them, to remind people to be carefull





5 pages and 62 posts. Now you go and sum up this whole thread in just 13 words! :innocent:

[Big Dave]

which is exactly the point of them, to remind people to be carefull


yeah - but I could do without the 3 month old floral arrangements too.

[Smorg]

yeah - but I could do without the 3 month old floral arrangements too.

those are to remind you of how little all your relatives care for you

[mstriumph]

am assuming that [since i've never seen any little white jewish magen dovids or any little white islamic crescents] it's only christians that die on the roads?

[diggydog]

i agree hitcher, we need to make these people aware that they do'nt own this area, or should we be taxing or get them to pay rent, any way we will put the cross at the hospital hahaha under the bed on the floor.:blip:

[Smorg]

am assuming that [since i've never seen any little white jewish magen dovids or any little white islamic crescents] it's only christians that die on the roads?

Majority rules.....

[Lou Girardin]

am assuming that [since i've never seen any little white jewish magen dovids or any little white islamic crescents] it's only christians that die on the roads?

Perhaps we only get Christian imports.

[Drunken Monkey]

*bump*

Current events make this thread particularly relevant...

[skidMark]

. New Zealanders are accepting of road deaths. Bunging white crosses on the side of the road neither serves as a warning or a reminder. It is an act of self-indulgent grief.

if you had been on the side of that road today at loosebruce and dss3's crash site ,

it was a very strong reminder of the worst that can happen

i do not see it as grieving i see it as not forgotting those you care about,

and if i come around a corner and see a cross i always have a moment of silence for that person as i go past and it reminds me what can happen, life is a gift.

as you were

SkidMark

[Hitcher]

as you were

SkidMark

Given this weekend's events I won't rise to the bait, other than to say I stand by my original post. Perhaps people should be more careful about the timeliness of old posts they resurrect...

[Fatjim]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't made PD yet! Come on mods, sort it out!

[skidMark]

Given this weekend's events I won't rise to the bait, other than to say I stand by my original post. Perhaps people should be more careful about the timeliness of old posts they resurrect...

my mistake, thought it was a new thread thus my reaction.

sorry.

[Donor]

Given this weekend's events I won't rise to the bait, other than to say I stand by my original post. Perhaps people should be more careful about the timeliness of old posts they resurrect...

Agreed, on both the original and this post.

[candor]

Before losing someone to the toll I never really thought they were about 'grieving'. Still don't - just as a warning is how I saw / see them.

Before losing someone I found crosses annoying for reasons others said - as in ?relevance. As in ? could be distracting etc etc.

My mum who has one now didn't approve of them either I think I recall her saying. My Dad is an extreme anti christian (prolly moreso than antichrist) so I was stunned beyongd belief when he put a cross up.

But the good side is that the cross has raised awareness by featuring in newspapers, it and ones like it prick the killers consciences (I hope) and do remind people that roads are just as much gorey battlefields as they are sanitary transport venues.

The main value I see for crosses is that they put egg on transits face where the egg is needed, which may help get safer engineering where needed.

When crosses mount up and it's clearly a road fault things happen. No crosses - no action. Just don't like the over decorated ones as they do make me fixate.

Re those crosses that make you go WHAT, its often not a matter of 'how did some one manage to die or kill themself here' as someone said they wonder.

The scariest thing about the road is that a large part of the toll is not caused by you or the conditions. It is caused by some arsehole who usually survives deciding to cross the centre on a straight and take you or your family out.

I agree with commemorating peoples lives not where they died as Beer said, but when it comes to traumatic disasters the place does get significance to the victims. Places get stained where there is huge suffering and that fact for the family often eclipses ability to focus more on the victims life than death for the family for quite some time. Thats why we have national monuments for air disasters, war, things like Cave creek etc.

Just cos the road death disaster is scattered doesn't mean the same psychology and human needs don't still apply, many countries have National monuments for toll victims.

Also lost a friend to the toll. I feel good her parents put a cross up somehow as I like to acknowledge her life and send sympathy for her agony and hopefully healing from it when I pass. Where they died does matter, people need to remember we all depend on each other on the road! Keep it personal.

Glad you had your ceremony and hope the new cross might save someone.

[skidMark]

that was a very interesting read candor

reputation points given

regards: mark