Illegal to open yesterday? (Good Friday)

[Big Dave]

I didn't realise NZ had Mandatory religion.
I ain't no Christian - yesterday was 'Friday' and nobody is going to tell me I can'y open my business.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10377523

[Marmoot]

DOn't you know?
Friday is Moslem's Holy Day.

They should make shops to close on Fridays every week.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Fuckin' losers...

Whats wrong with been open if you want to??

How much does the government tax them if they are open??

[mattt]

I didn't realise NZ had Mandatory religion.
I ain't no Christian - yesterday was 'Friday' and nobody is going to tell me I can'y open my business.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10377523

Airport and it's fifty retail shops were open.
What the fucks the difference <_<

[Ixion]

Anyone ever think that maybe shop assistants deserve a day off too?

The reason for the law isn't a religious one. It's so that workers occasionally get a day when they can be with their families.

Employers have 354 days a year to get their pound of flesh out of the worker. They can surely manage to take their eye off the almighty dollar for 11 .

There is more to life than shopping y'know. You won't actually die if you're deprived of shops for one day.

EDIT: And why should not the Government regulate opening hours , anyway? That's what governments are for, to regulate things, so as to prevent people being exploited

[MSTRS]

In today's secular, commercial. convenience-driven NZ way of life there is NO reason that shops should not be open whenever they choose, regardless of the day or time. If you don't want to shop, don't go to town.

[Ixion]

The very good reason is that it is not a fair go on the workers who do not have the ability to choose.

And if someone does happen to be a Christian, have you considered that your choice, in the interests of the " secular, commercial. convenience-driven NZ way of life " is also depriving them of their rights.

Should factories , in the interests of " secular, commercial. convenience-driven NZ way of life " also be at liberty to pollute when and where they use. The capitalists would certainly say they should.

If you want a " secular, commercial. convenience-driven way of life " go to Bangkok , or Vietnam. I prefer the Kiwi way of life, where people matter more than profits.

[Warren]

Anyone ever think that maybe shop assistants deserve a day off too?


On normal statutory holidays employees get the option if they want the day off or work at 1.5x. If you are an employee and are not having enough time off then have a chat to your employer to have a few less hours every week.

[Big Dave]

Anyone ever think that maybe shop assistants deserve a day off too?




...................No.

[Buster]

It kinda spoils the day when you run out of booze at 4pm and cant walk to the shops to get some more. I think its an old law that needs to be changed. I want to do stuff on my day off, not conform with a church. In this day and age people work all sorts of hours anyway, day and night. If you want a day off then throw a sickie!

[Ixion]

On normal statutory holidays employees get the option if they want the day off or work at 1.5x. If you are an employee and are not having enough time off then have a chat to your employer to have a few less hours every week.

The reality is that workers do NOT get the option. They are rostered on, likme it or lump it. Don't want to - down the road. And "have a chat .. to have a few less hours" ? - what are you smoking mate?

[Big Dave]

DOn't you know?
Friday is Moslem's Holy Day.

They should make shops to close on Fridays every week.


Lucky i'm not Catholic - i could feel guilty about it too.:killingme

[MSTRS]

The very good reason is that it is not a fair go on the workers who do not have the ability to choose.
I prefer the Kiwi way of life, where people matter more than profits.
Hear what you are saying. Not sure that you heard me tho. I never said that shops should have to open. Rather that it should be their choice. And the 'workers' are compensated after all

[Ixion]

It kinda spoils the day when you run out of booze at 4pm and cant walk to the shops to get some more. I think its an old law that needs to be changed. I want to do stuff on my day off, not conform with a church. In this day and age people work all sorts of hours anyway, day and night. If you want a day off then throw a sickie!

And tehre you have it in a nutshell. Pure selfishness. You have YOUR day off. But you are not willing to accept that others should have THEIR day off. Why should you have a day off? If other people have to work , to supply you with booze, because you couldn't be bothered to plan one day ahead, then why should you not have to work also?

Why should you be entitled to a day off, when you are not willing to let other people have one off?

[Buster]

And tehre you have it in a nutshell. Pure selfishness. You have YOUR day off. But you are not willing to accept that others should have THEIR day off. Why should you have a day off? If other people have to work , to supply you with booze, because you couldn't be bothered to plan one day ahead, then why should you not have to work also?

Why should you be entitled to a day off, when you are not willing to let other people have one off?
Why do we all have to have the SAME dayoff ? I work alot of puplic holidays but just make them up some other time. And yes... its all about me.

[Big Dave]

And tehre you have it in a nutshell. Pure selfishness.


Nah - Pitfalls of working in the retail sector aside - not allowing business to open because of a Religious Holiday sucks.

if it's give 'staff an even break day' - then whatever, call it that - the fundamental is that the nursery dude can't run his business the way he wants to because of what some people believe happened more than 2 thousand years ago - or in the name of it.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.



Very 'Brown Rice'. He loses me a bit on the possessions - He obviously never rode a Buell.

[MSTRS]

.... what some people believe happened more than 2 thousand years ago - or in the name of it.
Not to split hairs - but in the interests of accuracy, the 'events' that Easter commemorates happened at the time of the cruxifiction (approx AD33) - not quite 2000 years ago:chase: AND it was a hi-jack of the Pagan spring rituals

[Ixion]

Why should the nursery dude be allowed to run his business the way he wants to, if it means trampling on other people. Lots of things I can't do they way I want to - because the law says I can't out of consideration for the rest of society.

Why should capitalists demand to be exempt from the limitations that we all accept. None of us can do just whatever we want whenever we want. That's why we have governemnts and laws.

Should the owner of the trucking business be exempt from the traffic laws so he can run his business the way he wants. And require his drivers to drive for 36hours on end, in unsafe vehicles, because he makes more profit that way.

Should the factory owner be allowed to pump toxic waste into the water system, because he wants to be able to run his business the way he wants?

What about mining? The mine owners would dearly love to be able to run their business the way they want. Leaves the country a wasteland of course, but they don't care, they'll just toddle back overseas with their profits in their pockets. Reckon they should be allowed to? No different is it?

Capitalism will ALWAYS demand the unfettered right to exploit everybody and everything. Society reallised this years ago and passed laws to prevent them doing so. Laws that are in the interests of ALL of us, not just a selfish minority.

[MSTRS]

Why should the nursery dude be allowed to run his business the way he wants to, if it means trampling on other people. Lots of things I can't do they way I want to - because the law says I can't out of consideration for the rest of society.

Why should capitalists demand to be exempt from the limitations that we all accept. None of us can do just whatever we want whenever we want. That's why we have governemnts and laws.

Should the owner of the trucking business be exempt from the traffic laws so he can run his business the way he wants. And require his drivers to drive for 36hours on end, in unsafe vehicles, because he makes more profit that way.

Should the factory owner be allowed to pump toxic waste into the water system, because he wants to be able to run his business the way he wants?

What about mining? The mine owners would dearly love to be able to run their business the way they want. Leaves the country a wasteland of course, but they don't care, they'll just toddle back overseas with their profits in their pockets. Reckon they should be allowed to? No different is it?

Capitalism will ALWAYS demand the unfettered right to exploit everybody and everything. Society reallised this years ago and passed laws to prevent them doing so. Laws that are in the interests of ALL of us, not just a selfish minority.
Interestingly, the commies did and still do, all those things to their people AND to their environments too. Must not be the political system but rather the human condition to take advantage when calling the shots eh?

[Big Dave]

Why should the nursery dude be allowed to run his business the way he wants to, if it means trampling on other people.

Ha! - The point is not labour laws - but the banner under which they are applied.

I win - going to the hardware store now - like i would have done yesterday.:rockon:

[Big Dave]

Not to split hairs - but in the interests of accuracy, the 'events' that Easter commemorates happened at the time of the cruxifiction (approx AD33) - not quite 2000 years ago:chase: AND it was a hi-jack of the Pagan spring rituals

I write 'features' - accuracy has nothing to do with it.

[Buster]

Whats the point of a holiday weekend if I cant even drive down the motorway because tom, dick and harry are all doing the same thing. I find more stressfull than relaxing. As for spending time with families.. Thats not up to an employer, thats up to the individual. Im the biggest fan of payed days off, dont get me wrong, but why all on the same stupid religious days?

Bah humbug.

[Highlander]

I worked Yesterday (Good Friday) from 07:00 - 19:00. didn't get a choice (Warren).
Buster, if I (and others in this industry) didn't work your beer would get warm.
I have worked 7 of the last 10 Christmas days too so you can have chilled drinks and hot food.

Could I have rung in sick? - Yes probably, but then one of the other guys who had been rostered a day off (to spend with family) would have had an unplanned day on.

[oldrider]

The religious holiday is just the reason for the holiday.
The reason shops are closed is because of the UNIONS.
Blame the right people.
The Labour government support the unions for their votes and financial support.
I believe if you own a business you should be able to trade whenever you like.
It should have nothing to do with anyone other than you and your customer.
If you want to employ people that is between you and the employee, no one else.
Compulsory Unions are just another form of indirect Taxation they play no part in the business relationship.
If they have a place it is a service agreement between the Union member and the union only and should be voluntary not compulsory.
So Dave don't blame the religion for your problem, blame the bloody socialist government that you guys keep on electing.:brick:
Helen Clark is only anti religion when it suits her.(bloody two faced bitch IMHO)

[Buster]

I worked Yesterday (Good Friday) from 07:00 - 19:00. didn't get a choice (Warren).
Buster, if I (and others in this industry) didn't work your beer would get warm.
I have worked 7 of the last 10 Christmas days too so you can have chilled drinks and hot food.

Could I have rung in sick? - Yes probably, but then one of the other guys who had been rostered a day off (to spend with family) would have had an unplanned day on.
I understand totally. Same shit for me. I didnt mean sickies on days like yesterday, more like during the year. If you work those days like I do, do you ever think why you are there? Cant be doing it for jesus? Can we? Or are we just helping the church? I feel bitter when I think about it.

[MSTRS]

So Dave don't blame the religion for your problem, blame the bloody socialist government that you guys keep on electing.:brick:
Helen Clark is only anti religion when it suits her.(bloody two faced bitch IMHO)
At this point, I believe this to be appropriate....

A man enters a bar & orders a drink. The bar has a robot bartender.

The robot serves him a perfectly prepared cocktail & then asks him, "What's your IQ?"

The man replies "145"

So the robot proceeds to make conversation about global warming factors, quantum physics & spirituality, evidence against the official version of 9/11, bio-mimicry, environmental interconnectedness, string theory, nano-technology & sexual proclivities of Amazon Basin tribes.

The customer is very impressed & thinks, "This is really cool."

He decides to test the robot. He walks out of the bar, turns around & comes back in for another drink.

Again, the robot serves him the perfectly prepared drink, & asks him, "What's your IQ?"

The man responds, "About a 100."

Immediately the robot starts talking about football, trucks, NASCAR, baseball, supermodels, favourite fast foods, guns & women's breasts.

Really impressed, the man leaves the bar & decides to give the robot one more test. He goes out & returns, the robot serves him the drink & asks, "What's your IQ?"

The man replies, "Er, 70, I think."

So the robot says, really really slow, "Sooo....yaaa gonnnna vote ... for ... Helen Clark ... again?"

[Drunken Monkey]

The very good reason is that it is not a fair go on the workers who do not have the ability to choose.


Haven't you heard of 'annual leave' ?


...Should the owner of the trucking business be exempt from the traffic laws so ..

I think it's a bit of stretch to say people are going to get hurt or killed if they open garden centres on public holidays. You're not comparing apples with apples there.


I worked Yesterday (Good Friday) from 07:00 - 19:00. didn't get a choice (Warren).

Tha's the price you pay for working in the hospitality industry. Not many bar tenders have to get up at 6am and sit in rush hour traffic to get to their pub by 8:30 though. There are ups and downs for every job...

[Jantar]

The very good reason is that it is not a fair go on the workers who do not have the ability to choose.

And if someone does happen to be a Christian, have you considered that your choice, in the interests of the " secular, commercial. convenience-driven NZ way of life " is also depriving them of their rights.

Should factories , in the interests of " secular, commercial. convenience-driven NZ way of life " also be at liberty to pollute when and where they use. The capitalists would certainly say they should.

If you want a " secular, commercial. convenience-driven way of life " go to Bangkok , or Vietnam. I prefer the Kiwi way of life, where people matter more than profits.

If you really take that argument to its logical conclusion then all workers should get the day off, not just retail workers. So Bikeycop, Spudchucker and Scumdog, you can all go home and spend the day with your families. No policing required. Speedmedic, no accidents or illnesses today, so you can have the day off too.

I don't know what you'll all do at home, because you won't be able to cook or watch TV, or even go on the net... You see there wil be no electricity available as I'll be at home as well.

[Highlander]

Bit of a shift sideways here, but the law of the land decrees that on a Public Holiday your employer must calculate your daily rate of pay and pay you time 1.5 for hours worked.

I note that the Blues played a game against the Force, in Auckland on Good Friday. Being profesional players they must therefore be paid time and a half, or are they deemed to be Contractors therefore responsable for their onw taxes, acc levies etc.....

Betcha the food and drink services at the game were still open. Did they add a surcharge like resturants, and Cafes do (even Dominos do on public holidays)....

[oldrider]

So the robot says, really really slow, "Sooo....yaaa gonnnna vote ... for ... Helen Clark ... again?"
Excellent, LMFAO, :laugh: Cheers John.

[boomer]

I didn't realise NZ had Mandatory religion.
I ain't no Christian - yesterday was 'Friday' and nobody is going to tell me I can'y open my business.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10377523

Agreed! To top it off i had a couple of bible bashers knock the door today!!! sorry i said, i'm closed! and promptly SHUT the door

[Motu]

I got no truck with any religion anytime,I hate all religions more than I hate any government.But these aren't religeous holidays,Xmas and Easter are just taken from pagan days.

I operate a business 6 days a week,I get no days off,and on public holdays I pay my workers for a full days work they never did,and my business is closed with no income.But I'm happy with this,as it's a forced day off for me,otherwise I'll just work and work and work and die.I shut down and enjoy time with my family on Easter and Xmas,I will shut shop on ANZAC Day,earn no money and pay tribute to those who fought to allow me to live in a free world,I will shut shop with no income on Labour day in honour of those workers who fought for a 40hr week....otherwise I'd be open 12 hrs a day 6 days a week.I'll shut shop on the Queens Birthday because it's a good excuse for a ride.

I don't mind businesses opening on public holidays,but I think the workers should be given unpressured choice - ''Sorry Boss,but no one want's to work Good Friday,looks like you have to do it yourself'' One of my daughter's worked yesterday,it was her choice,yeah right...and she was paid time and a half (used to be triple time on public hols) She needs the money....always comes back to the money.

On thursday I had phone calls asking if I was open on friday - ''you do realise it's a public holiday?''....'I thought you would be open'.....''Are you working tomorrow?''....'No,but I thought you might be...' yeah right,it's all about me,me,me.Just had a phone call from some guy saying he want's to pick up his car - ''I told you if you weren't here by 6.00pm I'd lock it up until tuesday''....'Yeah but I need the car,is there anyway I can get my car?'.....''No,I'm not in Auckland,see you on tuesday,clunk....''

[Ixion]

If you really take that argument to its logical conclusion then all workers should get the day off, not just retail workers. So Bikeycop, Spudchucker and Scumdog, you can all go home and spend the day with your families. No policing required. Speedmedic, no accidents or illnesses today, so you can have the day off too.

I don't know what you'll all do at home, because you won't be able to cook or watch TV, or even go on the net... You see there wil be no electricity available as I'll be at home as well.

That is a very valid point, and one that was always considered at great length when these laws were set.

It would certainly be better if no-one had to work. But, inevitably, there are some occupations that have to be "on-call". It is like a surgeon, even on his days off, he may still be on call for emergencies. It is regrettable, but goes with the territory. Great efforts used to be made to ensure that only a bare minimum skeleton staff of such essential workers had to be rostered on.

But you cannot compare some old bint demanding that she be allowed to buy plants with what Spudchucka or SpeedMedic do?

The real rot set in when they (very illadvisedly) bowed to the demands of the tourist industry and allowed "tourist-centric" places to stay open. I never could see the logic of that - why should a tourist be accorded preferential treatment.



Haven't you heard of 'annual leave' ?


Uh-huh - And if you accept (as you appear to) that workers should not be entitled to statutory holidays, why assume they will be entitled to annual leave? The capitalists would like to get that removed even more than stat days.Along with sick leave, minimum wages , health and safety and every thing else that stands in the way of making the maximum profit they can, to be sent back overseas.



The reason shops are closed is because of the UNIONS.


Yep. And proud of it. The reason that ANY New Zealanders have a higher standard of living than the workers in China or Fiji (for example) is because of the unions.

Enjoy your annual leave over Christmas ? Unions got that for you. Had time off sick ? Unions won that for you. Nobody lost a limb at your workplace recently? They would have if unions hadn't fought for safe workplaces.

Remove the protections that the unions stand behind and inexorably you will see living standards devcline until they level out at those prevalent in Asia. While capitalists (exported) profits soar.

[Jantar]

That is a very valid point, and one that was always considered at great length when these laws were set.

It would certainly be better if no-one had to work. But, inevitably, there are some occupations that have to be "on-call".

Um, I'm not "on-call". I'm "at-work". As is Highlander and a few others here. I was on duty 07:00 to 19:00 yesterday, same again today. Tomorrow and Monday its 19:00 to 07:00, "at-work" not "on-call".

The whole idea that there are fixed days that everyone can have off are long gone. Rather we now recognise that there are som "special" days that people like to spend with family and friends, and those people who are required to work, are compensated with additional remuneration and alternative time off.

However I do agree that where an industry is non essential then people should be given the opotion of working or not. They shouldn't be compelled to work, and if they chose, then they should be rewarded accordingly.

[Highlander]

Great efforts used to be made to ensure that only a bare minimum skeleton staff of such essential workers had to be rostered on.

That would be Jantar and Myself, as for anual leave, you still need to convince one of the others that you need the weekend off more than they do.



The real rot set in when they (very illadvisedly) bowed to the demands of the tourist industry and allowed "tourist-centric" places to stay open. I never could see the logic of that - why should a tourist be accorded preferential treatment.

Try buying Alcohol in Muslim countries. People still go there. If you know the place is going to be closed at a certain time or on a certain day you organise your holiday around it.

edit: Jantar you type faster than me do you use both hands or sumint? and the aditional remnuneration is often not worth it.

[SuperDave]

Miss Sarah Clapp can get fucked.

[Ixion]

Coming back to the original argument, that people should not have a day's holiday on Good Friday because it is a "religious day". A lot of rides are held on Sundays. Because,most of you (not all) have a holiday on Sundays. How come , then, because that holiday, Sunday , is also a "religious " day. "Six days shalt thou labour, but the seventh thou shalt hold holy"

Grab the holiday that's going , bugger why it's given. Just don't argue to deny others what you yourself are enjoying, a day of lesuire.

And say a special "thank you" to those whose jobs are so essential that they cannot have the day off. And that should be limited to those who really are indispensable.

[MSTRS]

And say a special "thank you" to those whose jobs are so essential that they cannot have the day off. And that should be limited to those who really are indispensable.
Yep. I need to get groceries (and not at dairy prices). A few beers at the off-license. A new tee-shirt. Some parts for the bike. Petrol. A dvd to watch on my day off. Do my banking. Get a wof for the cage. A new tyre for the kid's bicycle. Some paint for the back fence. Check out that new model Akai stereo. A few flowers & shrubs for the garden.
Damn - most were closed. Least I could get gas for a ride.

[Kickaha]

Um, I'm not "on-call". I'm "at-work". As is Highlander and a few others here. I was on duty 07:00 to 19:00 yesterday, same again today. Tomorrow and Monday its 19:00 to 07:00, "at-work" not "on-call".


Shouldn't have let that little shit K14 have time off then, what's the use of having a new boy if he doesn't get all the crap jobs :yes:

[Big Dave]

Coming back to the original argument, that people should not have a day's holiday on Good Friday because it is a "religious day". A lot of rides are held on Sundays. Because,most of you (not all) have a holiday on Sundays. How come , then, because that holiday, Sunday , is also a "religious " day. "Six days shalt thou labour, but the seventh thou shalt hold holy"


Okay - I thought - good point - but....
I'm not going to be prosecuted for opening my business on an ordinary Sunday?

I'm digging the holiday, but I still can't get past 'if your business does not observe this religious festival - we will punish you.' doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe it's Cohen's law.

[James Deuce]

Personally I LOVE the compulsory holidays. They feel like SAturdays and Sundays when I was a kid. Sod all traffic, and a wonderful quiet feel. OMG you have to plan to have enough groceries in the house to feed people for 24 hours (or go to the gas station and pay 120% of RRP)!

[Big Dave]

Sod all traffic,
:blink: :blink: :blink: I rode north on 16 yesterday and it was bumper to bumper all the way

[Motu]

For a small fee I could of told you that.....

[Drunken Monkey]

Uh-huh - And if you accept (as you appear to) that workers should not be entitled to statutory holidays, why assume they will be entitled to annual leave? The capitalists would like to get that removed even more than stat days.Along with sick leave, minimum wages , health and safety and every thing else that stands in the way of making the maximum profit they can, to be sent back overseas.

Utter rubbish.

[sunhuntin]

the industry i work it never closes [petrol stations] so that means we dont really get the choice whether to have stat days off or not....if we're rostered to work, then goddam we will work!
today is my last day off for 2 weeks and i will likely be doing at least one 11 hour shift in that time. we dont get breaks, simply cos theres no time for it. if we eat, we get a mouthful at a time. literally.

i took a week off last week for my birthday, but i know it will be ages before i get that chance again. i work with staff that have been there for ages and get denied annual leave simply cos theres no one to cover it. we had one staff member walk out and another died....they havent and wont be replaced. public holidays at 2 of our sites, there will be only one staff member and self service. i will be refusing to work if im on it alone.

ixion, i agree with everything you said. youve got it right....while im happy to work most stat days, i will be declining hours/applying for that day off if i can.

[oldrider]

Coming back to the original argument, that people should not have a day's holiday on Good Friday because it is a "religious day". A lot of rides are held on Sundays. Because, most of you (not all) have a holiday on Sundays. How come , then, because that holiday, Sunday , is also a "religious " day. "Six days shalt thou labour, but the seventh thou shalt hold holy"

Grab the holiday that's going , bugger why it's given. Just don't argue to deny others what you yourself are enjoying, a day of leisure.

And say a special "thank you" to those whose jobs are so essential that they cannot have the day off. And that should be limited to those who really are indispensable.

You are spinning your wheels on this one Ixion, can't have it both ways.

It is not the Christians that make the day a holiday anymore it is the government! (influenced by votes)
It's a statutory holiday and they (the government) decree the conditions not the churches.
You want to change it, lobby the government, they are the only ones who can or will but only if there are votes in it for them!
I am a Christian but I want freedom to choose not to be dictated to by anyone!
Open the bloody shops 24 hours a day seven days a week if they want to do it, that's between them and their customers. Stupid bloody laws!
Stop blaming religion for what may well have been of their making but is not their fault that the law remains, it is the legislators. "Parliament" damn it!
Who changed the homo and prostitution laws? the bloody politicians not the churches, they were against it so who is at fault over the shopping laws on good Friday of Easter? the bloody politicians and ultimately "you".
If you don't like it be more careful with your votes next time.
National wont change them either, I doubt if any of the current crop on offer will either, too left wing!
Freedom and individual responsibility with real consequence for getting it right or wrong that's what I want not these Lilly livered PC do-gooder piss weak left wing bastards we have got now! Rant rant rant, Shheeeesh. :slap: John.

[Winston001]

Personally I can live with no trading on Easter Friday. Hell, it's not that many years ago that shops weren't open at all on weekends. We just made sure we had what we needed by the end of the week.

However, I can't see us going back and the present ludicrous situation where shops in one area are open, but closed in another area cannot continue. So open all hours on Friday as well.

Religious people will still observe this sacred day whatever anyone else does.

[Ixion]

You are spinning your wheels on this one Ixion, can't have it both ways.

It is not the Christians that make the day a holiday anymore it is the government! (influenced by votes)
It's a statutory holiday and they (the government) decree the conditions not the churches.
You want to change it, lobby the government, they are the only ones who can or will but only if there are votes in it for them!
I am a Christian but I want freedom to choose not to be dictated to by anyone!
Open the bloody shops 24 hours a day seven days a week if they want to do it, that's between them and their customers. Stupid bloody laws!
Stop blaming religion for what may well have been of their making but is not their fault that the law remains, it is the legislators. "Parliament" damn it!
,,
Freedom and individual responsibility with real consequence for getting it right or wrong that's what I want not these Lilly livered PC do-gooder piss weak left wing bastards we have got now! Rant rant rant, Shheeeesh. :slap: John.

Me, I don't care at all if they open or not. So long as I get MY day off.

But the thing is it is NOT "just between the shop and the customer", because the other people in the loop are the shop workers, who are forced to work whether they want to or not. You say you want freedom to choose, but you will happily deny that same freedom to those workers?

If all shop were run by the shopkeepers, with no staff, I wouldn't care less about them opening. But reality is they're not, they're corporates, and the person making the decision to open is not the one who will be behind the counter.

Be careful what you wish for, you never know , you might find the "Lilly livered PC do-gooder piss weak (not actually left wing at all) left wing bastards" replaced by REAL left wing bastards, not at all do gooder or PC, and bloody minded , machine gun happy , nationalise the lot bastards to boot. Like me.

You would remember the 51 waterfront strike? Now those were REAL left wing bastards. Though I'll grant you the lilly livered, they weren't game to make it into a shooting war with the specials . I asked Jock Barnes once if he regretted that, he wouldn't answer. Me, I'd have got the Soviets to run in a shipload of guns and ammo (they'd have done it) and given it a go. Lucky I wasn't old enough , wasn't it. (Jock did admit that they missed their chance in '31 when they might have been able to pull off a revolution. Pity)

[Cookie]

[...]Me, I'd have got the Soviets to run in a shipload of guns and ammo (they'd have done it) and given it a go. [...]

Please tell me this is a PT Ixion! :eek:

[Drunken Monkey]

.. But reality is they're not, they're corporates, and the person making the decision to open is not the one who will be behind the counter.

More garbage. Are you high today or something?

"The vast majority of New Zealand’s retail outlets are owned independently and operated by their owners."
(Source: New Zealand Retailer's Association)

That's good old fashioned "Mom & Pop" (sorry, "Mum and Dad") owner operaters, not corporates.

[Ixion]

Go take a ride along the Mt Wellington Highway. Tell me how many of the shops you see are run by Mom and Pop. And how many obviously are not. There's the dairy opposite the school, that's about it. (technically, I think each McDonalds is run by its "owner" since they are franchises. Hardly Mom and Pop though.)

[Timber020]

Me, I don't care at all if they open or not. So long as I get MY day off.

But the thing is it is NOT "just between the shop and the customer", because the other people in the loop are the shop workers, who are forced to work whether they want to or not. You say you want freedom to choose, but you will happily deny that same freedom to those workers?

If all shop were run by the shopkeepers, with no staff, I wouldn't care less about them opening. But reality is they're not, they're corporates, and the person making the decision to open is not the one who will be behind the counter.

)

I agree, the owners of the shops etc will have the day off with their family while their staff get to do yet another shift. This day off means alot to many people, I wouldnt fuck with it as dont we do enough hours for little enough money?
I have worked some pretty shitty jobs, I have averaged 96 hours a week without so much as a half day off in a month (my record is something like 120 hours in one week, lucky me being an insomniac anyhow). another paid less than $3 an hour and gave a weekend off only once a month. I could go on but the general idea is that alot of people dont get alot of choice or chance with what they do.
Im now self employed, hire others and can afford a few more toys, but I havent forgotten what its like to do the dangerous, dirty, uncomfortable,undesirable, underpaid jobs in this world. And we should forget those who do those jobs.

[Motu]

Or go to a mall,all the kids in those stores are part timers,they work only just under full time hours,have no rights,they are told what hours they will work,and on what days they will work.My daughter couldn't come home to spend Easter with her family because she had to work in a shop owned by a multinational corperation.

Actualy I tell a lie,she spent the day in hospital looking after her boyfriend who colapsed behind the wheel of his car.So she gets no pay and a black mark,when they need the money.Poor kids are working 3 or 4 part time jobs each and can't get out of the rut.

Bring back the unions with some teeth,a good national strike would wake us up.

[Ixion]

Exactly so. Retail workers are dreadfully exploited. The whole "part time" thing is a total rort, used by the employers to evade what little rights the workers in theory (and in theory only) have.

Which is why it annoys me to see people , themselves enjoying a day off, begruge the poor shop assistants one also. In practice there's few enough would get it, the employers being expert at wriggling out of paying for it (only entitled if it is a day you would normally be scheduled - drive a horse and cart through that loophole).

At least in our day the old hands and delegates would look out for the young ones and apprentices and see that they weren't totally taken advantage of - 'twas tough, but there was a respect there that is gone now. The American idea has taken over where workers are treated as a disposable commodity.

And we had Family Benefit capitalisation, and State Advances loans , and full employment . How a lot of kids today are ever supposed to get their home I'm damned if I know.

[Ixion]

Please tell me this is a PT Ixion! :eek:

D'you think a Communist would take the piss about something like that ?

[oldrider]

Ixion, the countries that share your ideals were held together by the glue of the gun and still they failed! It just doesn't work!

Most have turned to Capitalism and democracy to try and save their sorry arses but are struggling because they were so far behind the western world.

Who is forcing people to work on statutory holidays? There is no law that says they must work, they have a choice! Hobson's choice it may well be in some circumstances, I agree!

They are free to stay or go as far as the law of the country goes but they may be influenced by their own personal circumstances that is a different matter all together. They are still legally free to choose.

I worked shift work for almost thirty years, because it suited me and it suited my employer but I had to pay compulsory Union fees to a useless union that I did not want to belong to!

Besides the direct tax (Theft by force) by the government, the only other thing I was forced to pay was the indirect tax comprising of compulsory Union fees. (Stolen through govt legislation backing their Union friends)

Communism and it's diluted cousin socialism have almost nothing to offer anyone who places any value on the rights and freedom of the individual In my honest opinion.

I do agree that there are some very poor, even very bad managers in New Zealand industry but look how many employees have less than desirable attitudes in this country.

It's not something we as a nation can be proud of but we are free to speak out and do something about it if we want to but generally we prefer to exercise our right to moan in preference to taking action!

[Lias]

NZ is a christian country, as of the 2001 census (2006 figures not available yet that I can see), 2,043,840 out of 3,468,813 were still christian. Given that the communists in the labour party have been steadily undermining the moral fabric of NZ, and attempting to destroy the nuclear christian family for decades thats still a pretty substanial majority of the country.

NZ has religious tolerance, and other faiths are welcome to practise here, but they need to accept that NZ is a christian based country, and will still be for a long time yet. And no I'm not a practising bible basher.. I just think you cunts ar e looking at this all wrong.

[oldrider]

NZ is a christian country, as of the 2001 census (2006 figures not available yet that I can see), 2,043,840 out of 3,468,813 were still christian. Given that the communists in the labour party have been steadily undermining the moral fabric of NZ, and attempting to destroy the nuclear christian family for decades thats still a pretty substanial majority of the country.

NZ has religious tolerance, and other faiths are welcome to practise here, but they need to accept that NZ is a christian based country, and will still be for a long time yet. And no I'm not a practising bible basher.. I just think you cunts ar e looking at this all wrong.

You can think what you like and say what you like and do what you like within the law!

So can Ixion and all the rest of us!

I am prepared to defend your rights to that, whatever it takes.

I put myself down as one of those Christians in the census after thinking long and hard I could not bring myself to deny it.

The Christians do not make the law the politicians do.

Easter Friday and Monday are statutory holidays, Christians just observe it religiously.

The rest can do what "they" want to do except laws made by "politicians" dictate what they can and can't do. That is the problem!

I do admit it is a hang-up from when religion was too ensconced into politics in this country but hey, lets move on!!

[Beemer]

Well, the shops being closed Friday and today did have one benefit - if they had been open today I wouldn't have rushed back into Levin yesterday afternoon and discovered two Swedish tourists on a broken bike!

But I am annoyed at the double-standards - why are SOME tourist areas allowed to open and yet not others? Why can you buy food but not grog?

As for shop assistants not having a choice, yes, they can NOT work in retail. I did it for years, thankfully before there was seven-day-a-week trading, but I don't work in retail now precisely because I am not prepared to work on weekends and public holidays. Retail isn't the only career option open to the young...

But having said that, I don't have a problem with the shops not being open EVERY day of the year, I just get irritated trying to work out what is open when and for how long. At least I have plenty of alcohol!

[Drunken Monkey]

D'you think a Communist would take the piss about something like that ?

So did you line up in sub-freezing temperatures for food in 1980's communist U.S.S.R. Ixion, or are you just another arm-chair 'academic' communist?

[SimJen]

Why can noone else except Gas Stations etc open? Seems slightly contradictory considering that most Servo's now sell just about everything that supermarkets do? Maybe the government needs to update the laws slightly as they are completely out of date with the times.
All full time workers are entitled annual leave and you must take it!
If you are in such a crap job that you are treated like shit and don't get any say in the matter of time off etc, then perhaps you need to get a different job if it pisses you off so much, or you should have paid more attention at school ;)
As Beemer said above, its your choice who you work for......no argument.

[Edbear]

Well, the shops being closed Friday and today did have one benefit - if they had been open today I wouldn't have rushed back into Levin yesterday afternoon and discovered two Swedish tourists on a broken bike!

At least I have plenty of alcohol!



See! Every cloud has a silver lining!

Hard choice, though. I do enjoy the long weekends with the family and sympathise with those who have to work. Some do by choice, some feel they have no choice. How do you make it fair for everyone? Personally I think that a business should be able to trade at will, I'll go to it as and when I want to, but as has been said, there is exploitation occurring and it's not an easy fix.

[Ixion]

NZ is a christian country, as of the 2001 census (2006 figures not available yet that I can see), 2,043,840 out of 3,468,813 were still christian. Given that the communists in the labour party have been steadily undermining the moral fabric of NZ, and attempting to destroy the nuclear christian family for decades thats still a pretty substanial majority of the country.

NZ has religious tolerance, and other faiths are welcome to practise here, but they need to accept that NZ is a christian based country, and will still be for a long time yet. And no I'm not a practising bible basher.. I just think you cunts ar e looking at this all wrong.

/me is a Christian as well as a Communist . And there are no communists in the Labour Party. In fact it is an automatic disqualification to being able to join the Labour party if you have ever been a Communist.

[Ixion]

..

Easter Friday and Monday are statutory holidays, Christians just observe it religiously.

,,

Easter Monday has no particular religious significance. It's just a holiday.

[oldrider]

Easter Monday has no particular religious significance. It's just a holiday.
Correct, my mistake. :thud: Cheers John.

[Jantar]

So here's a scary thought: A short time ago (20:30) New Zealand was consuming 4200 MW of electricity. Between Highlander and myself we are responsible for over 1820 MW or 43% of the total country's total generation. We are each alone in our respective dispatch and trading rooms, working for competing generators, and both typing away on KB. :wari: :wari:

[Highlander]

So here's a scary thought: A short time ago (20:30) New Zealand was consuming 4200 MW of electricity. Between Highlander and myself we are responsible for over 1820 MW or 43% of the total country's total generation. We are each alone in our respective dispatch and trading rooms, working for competing generators, and both typing away on KB. :wari: :wari:

Sssshhhh !!! :psst: (Logging off now)

[mstriumph]

If you really take that argument to its logical conclusion then all workers should get the day off, not just retail workers. So Bikeycop, Spudchucker and Scumdog, you can all go home and spend the day with your families. No policing required. Speedmedic, no accidents or illnesses today, so you can have the day off too.

I don't know what you'll all do at home, because you won't be able to cook or watch TV, or even go on the net... You see there wil be no electricity available as I'll be at home as well.

Yes
You are absolutely right
But most people will only ever take an arguement thru to the point that suits their viewpoint ....... ie NOT to its logical conclusion :drinkup:

happy easter people!
[hoping the easter bunny ain't havin a rostered day off]

[Highlander]

Yes
You are absolutely right
But most people will only ever take an arguement thru to the point that suits their viewpoint ....... ie NOT to its logical conclusion :drinkup:

happy easter people!
[hoping the easter bunny ain't havin a rostered day off]


'Tis alright I give Jantar permission to go home. I'll just work harder to cover the shortfall....

[Jantar]

'Tis alright I give Jantar permission to go home. I'll just work harder to cover the shortfall....

:killingme :killingme :rofl: :rofl:

[Highlander]

there might be people wanting dimmed lights.

[oldrider]

there might be people wanting dimmed lights.
Also, you never know who is whatching! KB has eyes and ears from all walks of life!
Or like they used to say during WW2, walls have ears! :kick: John.

[Jantar]

No worrys there. Teasing the opposition in public like this is permitted. We just aren't allowed to discuss anything that is commercially sensitive with a the opposition. And certainly we aren't permitted to collude on price etc.

Its one of the small benefits of working unsociable hours, like over easter.

[Highlander]

We just aren't allowed to discuss anything that is commercially sensitive with a the opposition. And certainly we aren't permitted to collude on price etc.



Sepcially not on public forum. There are other mechanisms for "Market signals"

[kevie]

One thing I dont get the logic of in out highly 'political correct and equality society' is ........... why is every shop made to close except for Queenstown and Taupo cos they are supposedly atourist centre..... I see tourists in vurtually every town in NZ ..... this I think is unfair ... make the ruling for ALL or none.

Oh ... and whats a dayoff ???? wouldnt mind the occasional one of them ... they sound fun :eyepoke:

[Highlander]

I think you are right there Kevie.
All allowed to be open or none allowed to open. I think that is where the issure really lies.
As has been said here before some people will still be required to work because of the nature of their jobs.
If shops are forced to close we (and tourists) work around that.
We went to Melbourne and happened to be there when they observed Queens Birthday (a week afetr NZ) and noted half the shops were closed, but we worked around that, still ate and drank and took in the sights.

Btw days off are over rated (like sleep).

[Big Dave]

Over lunch at Raglan pub today i appraised the co-pilot of this discussion.

She said i was wrong - that it's 'a statutory holiday and religion has nothing to do with it. A statutory holiday like ANZAC day etc and that i was living in a christian country anyway and i should just shut the fuck up and enjoy it.'

Wise woman my wife.

[sels1]

Anyone ever think that maybe shop assistants deserve a day off too?

Yes indeed, poor blighters


On normal statutory holidays employees get the option if they want the day off or work at 1.5x. If you are an employee and are not having enough time off then have a chat to your employer to have a few less hours every week.

Not in the reatail industry buddy. example: Aussie owned clothing retailer which has a store in most NZ towns - it is in employees contract that they HAVE to work every Boxing day- no choice, And if they could, they would do the same on Xmas day and Easter. Same company employs large amounts of part timers, never giving them enough hours to make full time pay/conditions, keeping them on casual rates and minimum pay, and only started paying a bit extra for working public hols went Govt changed the law recently.


Why do we all have to have the SAME dayoff ? I work alot of puplic holidays but just make them up some other time. And yes... its all about me.

So familys (and friends) can do things together. Not much fun if evry time you have a day off, everyone else is working.


Haven't you heard of 'annual leave' ?QUOTE]

Havent you heard of " you cant have leave, we are too busy"??? You obviously have never worked in retail.

[QUOTE=Motu]Or go to a mall,all the kids in those stores are part timers,they work only just under full time hours,have no rights,they are told what hours they will work,and on what days they will work.My daughter couldn't come home to spend Easter with her family because she had to work in a shop owned by a multinational corperation.


We had the same thing for years. Big retailers take advantage of youngsters and and others like Mums who dont want to work full time due to family commitments. One thing my family members learnt was get experience, get qualifications, get the hell out of retail. But not every has the choice and its better to work (albeit crap hours for low pay) than be unemployed...isnt it?

Funny how people have lost the ability to shop a few days in advance like we all had to do just a few years ago



And say a special "thank you" to those whose jobs are so essential that they cannot have the day off. And that should be limited to those who really are indispensable.

I second that

[DEATH_INC.]

Fuck being open! Let everyone have some time off. In fact, why the hell is shit open sunday? It never used to be necessary....essential services only.

[FROSTY]

This is nuts. You lot beat ya chests over bikers rights yet in one foul swoop you're happy to give away some of the very few days off people in the retail industry have.
Y'all can pontificate as much as ya like . Realitity is take away the stats and retail workers will be working those days -commercial reality dictates that.

[kevie]

Ive always said the best times we ever had was back when 9pm Friday night the country closed and didnt reopen till 9am Monday morning, was better for all bak then , before people got greedy.

And I wasnt saying everyone should be able to be open ... I was commenting on the fact that government allows 2 towns to be exempt and not everyone else... and they should have one rule for all retailers wether it ALL closed or ALL open.

[Drunken Monkey]

Havent you heard of " you cant have leave, we are too busy"??? You obviously have never worked in retail.

I certainly have, for several years. I would always take the opportunity to work on public holidays for the extra cash, it's not like I would've had anything better to to do. In the end I was always ready to quit a job if I didn't get what I wanted, although I never needed to. People who can't afford to quit thier jobs? Like someone else said above, maybe they should've paid more attention at school...
In fact, I still do, it gives me a chance to get into customer's networks and get work done with all the users out of the system.
I take my time off at other times.

[Hitcher]

Stupid holiday trading laws. Mandatory four-weeks paid holiday. State-funded paid parental leave. Punitive OSH regulations. The list goes on. And people wonder why goods made in New Zealand are more expensive than imports? And why our average rate of pay is about one-third less than Australia. And falling...

When will the people wise up and throw out the pious, tree-hugging, hand-knitted woolly cardie brigade?

[Pixie]

He loses me a bit on the possessions
Yeah,it is a bit rich,coming from a millionaire

[Pixie]

Okay - I thought - good point - but....
I'm not going to be prosecuted for opening my business on an ordinary Sunday?

I'm digging the holiday, but I still can't get past 'if your business does not observe this religious festival - we will punish you.' doesn't sound right to me.

Maybe it's Cohen's law.
With a name like Cohen,you could be up for all those Jewish holidays,lucky bugger

[Big Dave]

With a name like Cohen,you could be up for all those Jewish holidays,lucky bugger

Not quite - I think I ate a ham sandwich in front of you once.

[oldrider]

Stupid holiday trading laws. Mandatory four-weeks paid holiday. State-funded paid parental leave. Punitive OSH regulations. The list goes on. And people wonder why goods made in New Zealand are more expensive than imports? And why our average rate of pay is about one-third less than Australia. And falling...

When will the people wise up and throw out the pious, tree-hugging, hand-knitted woolly cardie brigade?
I agree, and I hear that you have got your bike back on the road as well! Good on you, happy riding. :ride: Cheers John.