The right hand rule

[KATWYN]

Why is it,whenever i'm in a car and give
way to my right, and wait for the other driver to go first, or with
courtesy I motion them to go first.....I get daggers or a shaking head from the other drivers, like I don't know the road rules or something . :finger: (thats what I feel like doing sometimes!) cos its them that should go home and read the road code not me

It happens so often.

I bet all the motorcyclists in NZ on this forum are fully
aware of the right hand rule but come across this problem regulary.

Or maybe its me thats the arrogant driver :confused:

[Milky]

I had that problem during my driving test... took a fair while before the guy realised that he had right of way... The situation I have found most people dont know well is if you have two right turning cars at an uncontrolled intersection - standard give way to your right rule but so many peole dont know it :argh:

[Hitcher]

But when you're pushing a shopping trolley around in a supermarket people generally instinctively apply the right-hand rule! Go figure...

[Ms Piggy]

But when you're pushing a shopping trolley around in a supermarket people generally instinctively apply the right-hand rule! Go figure...

Yeah but it seems that if you are driving or riding in a super market no road rules apply! :eyepoke:

I reckon in general lotsa people don't know or don't understand the RH rule.

[madandy]

They dont understand the clause about ..."when the other car is on your left, turning right..." It is too detailed a law for some to comprehend... :doh:

[BritStorm]

When I arrived from the UK over a year ago i made a real effort to learn the give way rules. There is always that split second of recognition between me and another driver that determins weather they are going to abide by the rule or not and that hesitancy is usually enough to get things moving - in line with the rules or otherwise.

One rule I've always had on the bike though is be ready to give way to anything at anytime. The other thing is that on one lane bridges, the rule seems to be do as the signs say unless a bike is approaching or on the bridge in which case drive straight on over and damm the bike!

[James Deuce]

I much prefer the UK sitiuation where there is no right hand rule. Traffic flows heaps better IMO.

Anyone know the situation at the bottom of the Petone - Hutt Road intersection?

That's a situation that no one seems to understand. People coming off SH2 don't have to give way or stop there as there is no sign demanding either action, apart from the right hand rule, and the "don't pull out into traffic you idiot" rule my Dad taught me. However there is a Give Way for people heading up onto the SH2 on ramp. Which they don't give way at. Theoretically they SHOULD be giving way to the right there anyway! On the bike I always have to let people go there. When I'm in the FIAT they get a car shoved at them. I STILL get abused.

[MD]

Whow !THERE ARE ROAD RULES? Get out of here. Why don't they put them in a book or something and give it a cool name like, umm, Road Code. Mind you no one reads anymore. I'll wait for the video release.
MD

[Wonko]

Yeah, on the bike I abide by the rule
"If it's bigger than you, be prepared to give way to it"

[Motu]

Be kind - some of us old farts learned to drive under a different right hand rule,the old one still makes more sence....that was where if you were turning right into a side street across a main road,you gave way to the oncoming vehicle turning left into the same road.Now that car stops,the car behind swerves out to pass,or they all stack up behind.

Uncontroled intersections are a pain too - at one place I worked we had 2 road exits either side of a store....one was a give way,the other was uncontroled.So on one road you could pull out,on the other you had to stop and give way to turning traffic - lots of fist shaking as everyone thought you had it wrong,no matter which road you came out on.

[dangerous]

Be kind - some of us old farts learned to drive under a different right hand rule,the old one still makes more sence....that was where if you were turning right into a side street across a main road,you gave way to the oncoming vehicle turning left into the same road.Now that car stops,the car behind swerves out to pass,or they all stack up behind.


Old / New???? whats the diff? nothings changed in my 21yrs behind the wheel

The situation you give above is reversed in Oz.... much better (car turning left gives way)

[wkid_one]

I believe it was 1972/1976 somewhere around there that NZ changed a whole bunch of its road rules pertaining to the right hand rule....some drivers still drive under the old rules thinking they are in the road.

Take for example the "Shadow Turn" rule - very few people know this rule at all. This rule states if you are turning left in to an side street and the person on the other side of the road is turning across to the same side street. You are permitted to turn ahead of the other car if there is someone behind you travelling straight ahead as you are deemed to be turning in the 'shadow' of this driver. This overrules the right hand rule.

[MikeL]

Be kind - some of us old farts learned to drive under a different right hand rule,the old one still makes more sence....that was where if you were turning right into a side street across a main road,you gave way to the oncoming vehicle turning left into the same road.Now that car stops,the car behind swerves out to pass,or they all stack up behind.


I can still remember the incredulous reaction to the announcement of that rule change (although I can't for the life of me remember when it happened - sometime in the late 70s??). It just seemed crazy, and the explanation, which I think was something to do with consistency about giving way to the right, was utterly unconvincing. To many of us at the time it seemed that the rule about vehicles turning across on-coming traffic having to give way was more fundamental and more logical. I seem to recall that quite recently someone in the police or LTSA admitted that the rule change was a mistake, but said that it would cause even more confusion if we reverted to the old rule now!
Why do we tolerate such bumbling incompetence?

[MacD]

I'm pretty sure the right-hand turn rule changed in early 1977. I sat my car licence under the old rule and my bike licence under the new rule six months later. Of course it didn't really make much difference as all I did was a figure 8 in the carpark ;)

I think the "new" rule was copied from Victoria (where the LTSA seems to get all its ideas from), but has since been abandoned there. In one way, it is a logical extension of the give way to your right rule - the only problem is it doesn't work in practice! Particularly because of the "shadow" issue Wkid mentions.

[sAsLEX]

I think the "new" rule was copied from Victoria (where the LTSA seems to get all its ideas from), but has since been abandoned there.


They copy them an awful lot which is disturbing! Soon we could have 3km/h speeding tolerances and the like! Who cares that our speedos are only like 7% accurate or something at the best of times( heard this somewhere so could be wrong)

[James Deuce]

They copy them an awful lot which is disturbing! Soon we could have 3km/h speeding tolerances and the like! Who cares that our speedos are only like 7% accurate or something at the best of times( heard this somewhere so could be wrong)

That's quite true, and can be amplified by fitting non-manufacturer specified tyres, because a different rolling diameter can affect overall gearing.

[Lou Girardin]

Then there's the people who think there's a 'main road' rule. They don't have to give way when turning right into vehicle entrances, eg. supermarkets, if they're on the main road.
There's also the 'confusion rule' at roundabouts, everyones confused, so no-one moves.
Still, we coped with the first right hand rule change in '77 or has society dumbed down too much since then?

[wkid_one]

Then there's the people who think there's a 'main road' rule. They don't have to give way when turning right into vehicle entrances, eg. supermarkets, if they're on the main road.

Hell yes this is by far the worst. I have noticed many of the larger supermarkets have actually taken to putting stop signs at the exits of their car parks for this very reason - as I know Upper Hutt Pak N Save has had a number of fender benders at their Gibbons St entrance.

Roundabouts are another of my pet hates. Four cars all arrive at the roundabout at the same time....all four should go together - it is the way they were designed. HOWEVER - Roundabouts are stupid where traffic has a dominant flow from one direction. Take the Petone Roundabout. If you are tying to turn on to the Esplanade to go over to the Motorway - at certain times you have shit show as the traffic coming off the Motorway has right of way.....this causes MASSIVE traffic hold ups - and people trying to be idiots because they are sick of waiting.

And - don't get me started on the F&*ken Panmure Roundabout - that thing is a transit disaster. Oh - and then theres the Royal Oak Roundabout - second only to the Panmure Roundabout. I am sure both of these were designed and built by the Auckland Panelbeaters Guild.

And what about Upper Hutts roading system....if you aren't going round and round, you are going up and down.....for a town that is predominantly comprised of people who learnt to drive in Model T's - why the F&^K did they decide that so many Round About would have be a good thing? They get scared at 20kph - let alone an uncontrolled intersection where they need to make their own decision.

What is up with these multiple lane roundabouts - christ that is asking for the 'Mum and 3 Kids who never drive in town is in the wrong lane and is late for soccer practice' manuveur.

Right I feel better now

[Wenier]

Shit mate you should come to Blenheim. Due to the fact that it is highly populated by yokles it means that all road rules go out the window.
1. Wut the fuck do you need indicators for? Well round here they dont use em so you have to stop at every roundabout to see where the car is goin.
2. It doesn't matter if you were in the right cus the yokle always knows best and can never be wrong.

Seriously some of em need a good slap around the head so they realise wut the hell they are doin. The yokles children are even worse, couple of weeks back a car in the train station carpark on a fri night (where ya meet for skids). comes from off the road at say 100 and speeds up thru the carpark only to discover wut a lamppost looks like when it becomes part of your car. Fucken idoits i tell ya. At least there are more normal people moving here due to them buyin and runnin vineyards!

[madandy]

And then there is Tauranga with its massive transit dilema and 'retired' population who not only fear roundabouts, speeds above 45km/h, multi lane roads, merging like a zip and seem to have forgotten that modern cars have indicators so you can let others know which lane you intend to use....then the soccer mums who have all, recently moved here from all the bigger cities where poor driving is a given...LOL
Ya gota laugh, keep your eyes on every vehicle around you and get where you're going safely.Whereas most cagers drive with both eyes on their bonnet, frowning, and get where they're going with little concern for safety 'cause I'm in a SUV so F%^K off...

[What?]

And then there is Tauranga ...the soccer mums who have all, recently moved here from all the bigger cities where poor driving is a given...
Over a couple of recent trips to Auckland, I have to say that the Auck drivers are a bloody sight more considerate than those in Tauranga. A right turn out of AMPS onto Khyber Pass at 4pm was a cinch (just like Lou said it would be), whereas Tauranga drivers believe that when their lane of traffic stops, it is necessary to completely block all intersections and prevent anyone else from entering the traffic flow.

Oh yeah, the RH rule came in mid 1977. It did make life in the Hutt interesting for a while, but looking back I think it actually made people think about what they were doing. A little bit...

[madandy]

Over a couple of recent trips to Auckland, I have to say that the Auck drivers are a bloody sight more considerate than those in Tauranga. Tauranga drivers believe that when their lane of traffic stops, it is necessary to completely block all intersections and prevent anyone else from entering the traffic flow.

...

I have to agree with you but as Tauranga's population has doubled in the last 10-15 years or so where do you reckon everyone has moved here from? Obviously not Auckland?
I guess people here are slow to adapt to our traffic issues.

[MD]

And then there is Tauranga with its massive transit dilema and 'retired' population ...
Tauranga drivers have to win the OSCAR award for most ignorant and inconsiderate prats on the road. That's the Obnoxious Shitheads in a CAR award.

[Shazuki]

Tauranga drivers have to win the OSCAR award for most ignorant and inconsiderate prats on the road. That's the Obnoxious Shitheads in a CAR award.

Tell me about it!!!!!! :bash:
It's pretty scary when you are on the back ( me on the back with madandy) and cars want to merge, not like a zip but more like "cars before bikes". Some clown in a SS Commonwhore tried to race us to be next in line in a stationary queue on the harbour bridge :doh: I could have......or should I say, I should have, kicked his door in! And the ignorant prick didn't look at us once! Had there of been contact it would have been another case of...."I didn't see them!" :ar15: Yes thats right.........bright red bike, multi coloured helmet and jackets, lights on, finger in your face............what else do you need???????? Oh and we were on his right!

[Lou Girardin]

Tell me about it!!!!!! :bash:
......or should I say, I should have, kicked his door in! And the ignorant prick didn't look at us once! Had there of been contact it would have been another case of...."I didn't see them!" :ar15: Yes thats right.........bright red bike, multi coloured helmet and jackets, lights on, finger in your face............what else do you need???????? Oh and we were on his right!

Funny how they avoid eye contact. Try the 'how fast can I lock my door' test. Just pull up behind and get off your bike.
As for roundabouts, on the Shore they seem to be replacing them with lights. Phased to keep you stopped at a right turn for hours, with no traffic coming.
Lou

[What?]

so where do you reckon everyone has moved here from?
The boondocks. Places where traffic lights aren't.

[Drew]

How about, four way stop signs? Why can people not understand, that it is exactly the same, as a roundabout?
I've had, many a new pair of undies, requiring moment at those. :mad:
Again it is a simple matter of, giving way to the right, and no bastard, read the book, in enough detail to realise it.

[Hitcher]

Funny how they avoid eye contact. Try the 'how fast can I lock my door' test. Just pull up behind and get off your bike.
As for roundabouts, on the Shore they seem to be replacing them with lights. Phased to keep you stopped at a right turn for hours, with no traffic coming.
Lou

I don't know why NZ doesn't introduce a "left-turn on red" rule, as found in some other parts of the world.

[merv]

I don't know why NZ doesn't introduce a "left-turn on red" rule, as found in some other parts of the world.

Yep USA has "right turn on red" unless there is a sign that says not to. You have to treat it like a "Stop" sign, stop, look and if all clear then proceed. Works well, and would do wonders for us at many a set of lights if we could freely turn left if no cars are coming from the right.

[Cajun]

i hate tauranga traffic, one reason i ride the bike all the time, i can get where i am going and not get held up so much. I would much perfer to riding/driving in auckland at least most of people up there know where the hell they are going and going there not here, where everone seams to be out for sunday drive every day. I have kicked alot of doors in on the bike over the years, just people not looking, correctly

[Hitcher]

i hate tauranga traffic, one reason i ride the bike all the time, i can get where i am going and not get held up so much. I would much perfer to riding/driving in auckland at least most of people up there know where the hell they are going and going there not here, where everone seams to be out for sunday drive every day. I have kicked alot of doors in on the bike over the years, just people not looking, correctly

It's nice to know that our observations of Tauranga traffic, made as outsiders, weren't unique. We were there at Labour Weekend last year (on our bikes) and gave up on the place after about an hour's tootling around. Mrs H nearly got killed twice on consecutive roundabouts -- not by geriatrics in Mitsubishi Lancers but by wankers in Pajeros. The place is insane!

[Skyryder]

Be kind - some of us old farts learned to drive under a different right hand rule,the old one still makes more sence....that was where if you were turning right into a side street across a main road,you gave way to the oncoming vehicle turning left into the same road.Now that car stops,the car behind swerves out to pass,or they all stack up behind.

Here is another old right hand rule. You are waiting in a side street and want to make a 'right' hand turn into the main road. A car approaches from you left and wants to turn into the street that you are waiting in. As the right hand rule is now applied the car to you left has to give way allowing you to make your right hand turn. Yea we all know how many cars allow us to turn and do we insist on the right hand rule. Not if you want to live a long. Under the old right hand rule in the same situation you had to give way. You waited until you could safely move out into the traffic. Have heard that the 'old right hand rule' may come back.

Skyryder

[Lou Girardin]

[QUOTE=Skyryder]Here is another old right hand rule. You are waiting in a side street and want to make a 'right' hand turn into the main road. A car approaches from you left and wants to turn into the street that you are waiting in. As the right hand rule is now applied the car to you left has to give way allowing you to make your right hand turn. Yea we all know how many cars allow us to turn and do we insist on the right hand rule. Not if you want to live a long. Under the old right hand rule in the same situation you had to give way. You waited until you could safely move out into the traffic. Have heard that the 'old right hand rule' may come back.


That rule has never changed, the first requirement has always been to give way to your right. You've fallen for the main road/side road mistake.
Lou

]

[merv]

I'd be happy to see them get rid of that damn give way when turning left rule as it does nothing to help traffic flow with everyone hesitating trying to decide if they should give way or not because it depends who's going past them from behind. That should go back to pre 1977 and be the right hand rule in its entirety.

[johno]

I don't know why NZ doesn't introduce a "left-turn on red" rule, as found in some other parts of the world.

This was, as I remember it, the reason originally for the give way rule when turning left. It was a pre-requisite for free left turns on red or at any controlled intersection. Unfortunately, there was so much controversy about the "new rule" at the time that the next step was quietly dropped. So we now have the worst of both worlds. (Usual political outcome).
Someone mentioned round-a-bouts are being replaced by traffic lights, this is an imported policy that has been applied in NZ for some years, evidently less accidents etc. It doesn't seem to matter about traffic flow. Anyhow, there are so'ooh many dumb shits at roundabouts unable to make a simple fuckin decision about a car in the distance that going to take forever to even reach the roundabout, let alone slow down and go around, it is better for the blood pressure to have dumb lights that cater for the lowest common denominater of driving skills.

[Skyryder]

[QUOTE=Skyryder]Here is another old right hand rule. You are waiting in a side street and want to make a 'right' hand turn into the main road. A car approaches from you left and wants to turn into the street that you are waiting in. As the right hand rule is now applied the car to you left has to give way allowing you to make your right hand turn. Yea we all know how many cars allow us to turn and do we insist on the right hand rule. Not if you want to live a long. Under the old right hand rule in the same situation you had to give way. You waited until you could safely move out into the traffic. Have heard that the 'old right hand rule' may come back.


That rule has never changed, the first requirement has always been to give way to your right. You've fallen for the main road/side road mistake.
Lou

]

Just not too sure what you mean by the main road/side road mistake. As the law now stands in a "50"k speed area I am in a side street and want to turn right and the car to my left wants to make a right hand turn into the street that I am leaving. The car to my left gives way to me. I have the right of way. If I understand you correctly you are saying that has allways been the case. I may be wrong but I am sure that under the old right hand rule the car to my left had the right of way. When the law was changed in the late 60's? one of the things I can remember was moving out in front of a right turning car in the situation that I have desribed. This just never felt right. Still uncomfortable with this even today.

The second change would mean that all traffic from a terminating road gives way to all traffic on a continuing road. This means that traffic travelling along a major road that is turning right would not have to give way to traffic entering from a minor road or driveway; and the rules would be the same for all intersection and driveway situations.

see http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/publications/rsnz/2001/jul-01.html

As said I may be wrong but I thought the orange text was part of the old right hand rule


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

This was, as I remember it, the reason originally for the give way rule when turning left. It was a pre-requisite for free left turns on red or at any controlled intersection. Unfortunately, there was so much controversy about the "new rule" at the time that the next step was quietly dropped. So we now have the worst of both worlds. (Usual political outcome).
Someone mentioned round-a-bouts are being replaced by traffic lights, this is an imported policy that has been applied in NZ for some years, evidently less accidents etc. It doesn't seem to matter about traffic flow. Anyhow, there are so'ooh many dumb shits at roundabouts unable to make a simple fuckin decision about a car in the distance that going to take forever to even reach the roundabout, let alone slow down and go around, it is better for the blood pressure to have dumb lights that cater for the lowest common denominater of driving skills.

Roundabouts only work effectively when there is an even flow of traffic from all points. Where they fail is when a continual stream of traffic from one point prevents the movement of traffic from another that has to giveway to the stream on the right.

Skyryder

[Motu]

I think the confusion you are talking about is controled and uncontroled intersections as I mentioned earlier.If there is a stop or give way sign you stop and give way to everyone else.If there is no stop or give way sign then it is an uncontroled intersection and they give way to you - tiz bloody confusing and I see a lot of uncontroled intersections getting stop or give way signs put up.

[johno]

I think the confusion you are talking about is controled and uncontroled intersections as I mentioned earlier.If there is a stop or give way sign you stop and give way to everyone else.If there is no stop or give way sign then it is an uncontroled intersection and they give way to you - tiz bloody confusing and I see a lot of uncontroled intersections getting stop or give way signs put up.
As I understand it, there are no major/minor roads. If there is no control (and there ususally is) ie; stop/giveway signs, then everythin is equal.

[Lou Girardin]

The problem has been defining major/minor roads. Some driveways are as large as the road feeding them.

[Motu]

As I understand it, there are no major/minor roads. If there is no control (and there ususally is) ie; stop/giveway signs, then everythin is equal.

Equal in now the right hand rule applies - if you are at a T intersection and wish to turn right then the vehicle turning right into your road has to give way to you - you are on their right.At a controled intersection you give way to them.

[moko]

I had 2 near misses while riding in N.Z. because of this rule,I`d been told that riding in N.Z. was "pretty much the same as in the U.K".Found myself a couple of times in situations where I was waiting to give way,once things had been explained to me and was met by blank stares from car drivers who semed not to know they had right of way.I discussed the rule and it`s logic with a couple of locals and they couldn`t see any sense in it either.Over here you`ll quite often have someone give way to you when you`re turning right out of good manners,friendly gesture kind of thing.not sure about now but France used to have a really crazy law that gave people turning out of a sideroad onto a main highway priority and the Frog Gestapo(well trained by their allies in the war)took great delight in booking irate Brits who thought they were in the right when some dork had launched an apparent suicide bid and got his 2CV or other shit-heap crunched in the process.I think they`ve changed their ways now so it`s only the personal hygiene and bravery thing they`ve got to work on.

[Jackrat]

I have my own rules.
on my bike he who hesitates comes last.
In my Patrol, I'm bigger than you.
At all times,Trust no bugger.
Works for me so far.
Just love that parting comment about the french,Limpit mining bastards!!

[moko]

Why do the French plant trees at the side of their roads?
So the German Army can march in the shade.

[Jackrat]

Why do the French plant trees at the side of their roads?
So the German Army can march in the shade.

Thank you,Thank you :killingme

[moko]

Apologies if this is the wrong place but what the hell:

How do you castrate a Frenchman?
Kick his sister in the jaw

How long dos it take French women to have a shit?
9 months

What do you call a Frenchman with a goat under one arm and a sheep under the other?
Bisexual

Since the Terrorist bombs in Madrid the alert in Paris has been raised from "Run and hide" to "Surrender and Collaborate"

What`s got 30,000 legs and sunburnt armpits?
The French Army

What did the Mayor of Paris say when the Germans entered Paris?
"Table for 100,000?"

Computer tip:Install the French version of Windows.........it runs a lot faster.

[merv]

Equal in now the right hand rule applies - if you are at a T intersection and wish to turn right then the vehicle turning right into your road has to give way to you - you are on their right.At a controled intersection you give way to them.

Nowadays the right hand rule reads something like this:

1. If you are going straight ahead, give way to all vehicles coming straight through from your right.
2. If you are turning, give way to all vehicles not turning.
3. If you are turning left, give way to vehicles coming towards you that are turning right.
4. If you are turning right, give way to vehicles on your right that are turning right.
5. If you are leaving the path of the centre line, you are turning. You must give way to vehicles that are following the centre line.


In the old days the rule used to say if both vehicles are turning right courtesy applied and it was left to the drivers to choose. I guess they found out most people are discourteous and that didn't work, hence they introduced rule 4 above I think in the 1977 changes. That makes good sense to me because it prevents the need for one vehicle to swing right around in front of the other. Motu's example above highlights this and shows how people should not be turning in front of you if you are turning right out of an uncontrolled T junction. The number of people that try to do this in the area I live in is just phenomenal. They won't have read a rode code for as long as they can remember.

However, comment has been made about a main road rule on this forum and the closest we get to that is rule 5 above. If there is a continuous line that actually goes around a corner and you want to deviate off (some roads do this where the main flow takes a left turn) you have to give way to traffic that is in fact turning right in front of you no matter how sharp the corner they are coming around is.

[MikeL]

France used to have a really crazy law that gave people turning out of a sideroad onto a main highway priority and the Frog Gestapo(well trained by their allies in the war)took great delight in booking irate Brits who thought they were in the right when some dork had launched an apparent suicide bid and got his 2CV or other shit-heap crunched in the process.I think they`ve changed their ways now so it`s only the personal hygiene and bravery thing they`ve got to work on.

After driving extensively in France and having to put up with all those stinking, cowardly, incestuous, sheep- and goat-shagging, heap-of-shit driving, ship-bombing Frogs, when I got back to good old Godzone for a taste of real culture, why, I wonder, did I feel less safe and more nervous driving on
our roads than I ever did on theirs???

And the same for Spain...
And Italy...
And Britain...
And the U.S....

[Lou Girardin]

Cowardly French? Read the true accounts of WW2 up to Dunkirk and find out just who bailed on who. It was nothing for the British to be proud of.
Lou

[moko]

Cowardly French? Read the true accounts of WW2 up to Dunkirk and find out just who bailed on who. It was nothing for the British to be proud of.
Lou

I`m not a flag-waver Lou and there are far too many things for the British not to be too proud of,including what`s happening in Iraq now.And to defend the French there have been a few old guys on t.v. lately who in these days when they can finally speak their minds tell of the valiant efforts of the French in defending their country on D-Day.I have read the true accounts mate and basically I`d say that the British and the French ever being allies is a fallacy that was convienient for all concerned after the war.Did you know that when Britain went into Vietnam they actually locked up the French officials and the Japanese were policing the place for a while under Brit command!!Britain and America were just as concerned about the Communist French resistance as they seemed to be about the Germans and dumped on them accordingly,DeGaulle was basically the "least worse" option,him and the Churchill didnt like each other at all and both used the other for their own ends.War is never black and white and recorded history is too often the "required version" of events.

[Lou Girardin]

So true. And a large number of frenchmen hated the English more than the Germans. Europeans certainly know how to bear grudges, for centuries even.
Lou

[spudchucka]

Europeans certainly know how to bear grudges, for centuries even.
Lou
Just look at the Yugoslavs

[Ms Piggy]

...I was at that (terrible) intersection of Cuba St and Vivian St's. I was on Cuba St going across Vivian St. The whole intersection is controlled by STOP signs. A driver pulled up to the Vivian St stop on my right, so I was waiting for her to go but then she waved for me to go. I won't go in thoese situations so I just shook my head and waved her on. I'm not sure if she was being considerate (she was smiling) b/c I was on my bike or was just another person that doesn't know the RH rule.

[Hitcher]

...I was at that (terrible) intersection of Cuba St and Vivian St's. I was on Cuba St going across Vivian St. The whole intersection is controlled by STOP signs. A driver pulled up to the Vivian St stop on my right, so I was waiting for her to go but then she waved for me to go. I won't go in thoese situations so I just shook my head and waved her on. I'm not sure if she was being considerate (she was smiling) b/c I was on my bike or was just another person that doesn't know the RH rule.

I thought that the rule at an intersection that is completely controlled by Stop signs (such as the dreaded Cuba/Abel Smith) and where nobody is turning was "first in, first served"?

[NordieBoy]

Shit mate you should come to Blenheim.

I like Blenheim.

It means I get to go over the Whangamoa and Rai Saddles and the Pelorus twisties and then I get to go back over them again going back home :niceone:

Or even turn off at Pelorus on the way home and go through the Mungatapu...

[NordieBoy]

I thought that the rule at an intersection that is completely controlled by Stop signs (such as the dreaded Cuba/Abel Smith) and where nobody is turning was "first in, first served"?

Nope, right hand rule...

[FROSTY]

simple rule i use--give way to everything thats bigger n me -which is most everything on the road