Self-inflicted death

[Motoracer]

Hey everyone,

I would like to raise a few key points on Suicide, or in other words 'self-inflicted death' here in this thread tonight. You may think this is a bit off topic. Yes, it has nothing to do with motorcycles. However, with the ever increasing popularity of our wonderful website "Kiwibiker", I thought it would be a brilliant oppertunity to raise awareness on the topic.

A total of 515 people died in 2003 by suicide. That was a total of 11.5 deaths per 100,000 population! Now, we already have a lot of reasons for deaths around the country. Take the road death toll for instance, or deaths due to illnesses such as cancer or freak accidents etc. Do we really need more Kiwis dieing for 1 more reason? Obviously no. Eliminating the problem all together would be an unrealistic task at present times, however it is a goal we can work towards by doing what we can to minimise the chances of suicide occuring around us.

So, what can we do? We can learn to understand that this is a problem that is literally killing hundreds of people every year. It is a problem that can be delt with and lives can probably be saved with better awareness of the cause and symptoms of suicide. With better understanding, we might just help solve the problems leading to suicide, rather than just ignoring them.

So, what is suicide?


Suicide, by definition, is behaviour. It is an issue which generates apprehension, disbelief, fear and anger in many people, provoking strong attitudes, beliefs, and opinions.

Suicidal people are pre-occupied with plans for escape from the stresses in their life. The prospect of dying is seen as less threatening than ongoing torment. It is important to understand that people experiencing a suicidal crisis may not be thinking rationally.

Research has shown that over 90% of those making suicide attempts or dying by suicide may have a recognisable mental health problem, particularly depression.

There are ranges of suicidal behaviours. There is also a balance between the intention to live and the intention to die, and even what may appear to someone else to be minor, may tip the balance for the suicidal person. How powerful an event feels is deeply personal.
There are five aspects of suicidal behaviour

suicidal thoughts
A person doesn't become actively suicidal suddenly - the process is progressive. A person begins by thinking "It would be better if I weren't around". Never ignore what may be a message of a suicidal thought. The person needs to be listened to and taken seriously.
suicidal threats.
This is anything that a person says or does that indicates intent to self-harm. Suicidal threats are sometimes not recognised and can be overlooked. All threats should be taken seriously.
suicidal gestures. These are generally regarded as extreme forms of communication calling attention to the person's plight. They can involve physical injury to oneself or others, or reckless behaviour like overdosing, alcohol abuse, dangerous driving. All are indicators of emotional distress and a cry for help. Not all such gestures however, can be interpreted as suicidal.
attempted suicides. Attempted suicide is a serious and potentially lethal event. It can leave the person emotionally and/or physically devastated, possibly for the rest of their life.
suicidal death is a tragic and final event and the result is the death of a human beingTo help save lives, the book Suicide the Forever Decision, For those Thinking about Suicide and for Those who Know, Love and Counsel Them, by Paul Quinnett, Ph.D is available free online at http://www.qprinstitute.com/ (http://www.qprinstitute.com/)
note: both author and publisher wish the reader to know that this book does not offer mental health treatment, and in no way should be considered a substitute for consultation with a health professional

The piece of information quoted above is from http://www.spinz.org.nz/ website. Although the information above is a great introduction on the topic, please have a look on their website for additional information.

This thread is dedicated to an ex workmate. I had worked with him for about half a year and though I didn't know him very well as a person, the news of his self-inflicted death was still sad and very shocking. As a result of his death, I have become more aware of just being there for my friends when they are troubled and in need, emotionally . By creating this thread, I guess I am also attempting to have some kind of an effect on minimising sucided, as minimal as the effect may be.

Please feel free to express your thoughts and opinions and share some experiences and get a few positive ideas in the air.

Best Regards,
Sudeep.

[N4CR]

Shit... the main thing to think about for people that have got to that stage of consideration is THINK ABOUT THE IMPACT ON OTHERS. People will care, no matter how much you think they hate you or don't care. You will affect people, guranteed - making them feel sad and at fault.

Think before you act.

-Tristank

P.s. sorry to hear that sudeep, good to see you out there and posting about this too, alot of people keep it under the rug and it just sits there like a cancer. Communication is the best way to resolve these problems.

[Andrew]

Hey man good on you for raising awareness about this serious and very real topic. It seems suicide is becoming a larger problem in this country particularly around younger people. I was pleased to see that Australia will be funding $1b into mental health. Hopefully New Zeland can acknowledge this and take similar action.

[babyB]

I will admit this is the third time tonight i have had a tear in my eye with KB.
MR. I agree with you, the awareness needs to be raised about suicide.
As a *'survivor of suicide' one realizes how little understanding is out there, unless you have personal experienced it, people do not realize its not somethings that can be swept under the carpet. The pain never truly goes away. We always carry the 'what if s', 'if onlys' & buts even thought we know it wont change anything. Sometimes there seems to be no real closure, because some things can never be answered.

Isolation seems to be one of the things that make is hard for people contemplating suicide. They feel there is no one to talk to. or fear they will be locked up for feeling that way. Unless you know what all the possible signs are....you may be unaware & too late

Please take the time to read the site Motoracer has put up..... you may help to save a life

MR it is motorcycle related......
He made used his bike to commit suicide. RIP

*those bereaved by suicide (surviver of suicide)

[Str8 Jacket]

Ive had three best mates commit suicide over the last 10 years, one died in my arms. I still dont know what I could have done as all three of them didn't tell anyone they were depressed and all of them appeared happy up till the day they killed themselves. Everytime it happened it got harder but the only thing that I really learned was that there is nothing much you can do if someone really is serious about it.
When a close mate kills themselves its easy to feel a sense of guilt, "what could I have done" and "I should have been there for them" etc etc but at the end of the day there is nothing you can do. Over the years I worked through the pain etc and it was hard as a couple of them were my best mates that had lived in just about every foster home I had lived in, they died within a year of each other. Then 2 years a go a good mate and workmate of mine just walked out of work one Saturday afternoon and never returned. He hanged himself, left no note nothing. That was hard, we'll never know why he did it buty I guess thats not the point...
Suicide is a terrible thing and should be taken seriously, awareness needs to
be raised and support more readily available for families and for people going through such dark depression.
I just wish that someone had the answer.

[Edbear]

This is a hard one to deal with, as comments show it's not always apparent that someone is contemplating suicide. A suicidal person is not thinking rationally so it's not as simple as saying they should consider the effects on those they leave behind. In this day of broken homes, separation and divorce, drug abuse and alcoholism, child abuse, step-families, (I have a step-son, now 30), there are huge challenges to face and if one hasn't had a good upbringing in a loving close family where open communication is valued and skills are learned for coping with pressures, it is difficult to pass on such skills. With three grown up children, I've been through the tough times with them, the peer pressure and internal stresses of the teenage years especially are when parents need to be extra vigilant. Our young ones are trying to cope with rapid self-change; physically, mentally and emotionally, with emotions coming on very strongly, as well as learning to socialise, study and work. Being alert to key comments, such as, "I wish I'd never been born", "I think I'll just kill myself", "I hate my family situation" (or whichever family member, Mum, Dad, Step-parent, etc.) As friends we should try to be direct and genuinely interested in each other. It comes under the subject of Mental Illness and is something that we could all do a bit of study on. One of my old school mates was a popular and outgoing kid at school, had lots of friends, seemed tough and capable, yet I found out he committed suicide a few years ago. Man is unique in that he lives on hope. Without hope, we die. I know it seems a simplification but it's true if you think about it. A tip about teenagers - When it seems a though their whole world is crashing down around them and everything is hopeless and nothing is ever going to go right and they're completely stressed out; look for one particular problem or issue, even seemingly minor, address and resolve it and they suddenly find things are not so bad after all. Emotions can be rather extreme in an overeaction to a difficulty so as parents we need to try to overlook these overeactions, remain calm and confident in the relationship and address the issues raised. At times this is a real challenge, but when our children say, "I hate you!" they rarely mean it, they just want the problem resolved. It's a huge subject to go into in this type of forum, but we can touch on it and perhaps give some useful advice through knowledge or experience and we can offer our sympathies to those who have faced the problem first hand.

[Hitcher]

Another thought-provoking thread -- similar to the recent mental health one.

I find the concept of suicide and its consequences unimaginable. I am bemused by its increase to near epidemic levels in some age groups. And I am conflicted by society's desire not to talk about it more openly versus fostering an environment where more may choose it as an option.

Either way, it saddens and concerns me greatly. And makes me feel powerless and frustrated.

[kickingzebra]

Thanks for bringing this topic up Sudeep,

All I can say; I hate the sense of powerlessness that goes with suicidal tendencies. When you don't know what to do, or how serious someone is.
Or when you know damn well they are serious, and it is a metter of keeping them occupied long enough until the black dog goes back to its kennel.

I've had to deal with it more than I would like in the ideal world, and still can't make any sense of it. Such utter loss. It really gets to me.

[yungatart]

hXc had a mate who committed suicide last year,at the age of 15. If he could only see how that continues to impact on his friends and classmates - indeed his whole year group, to this day, maybe he wouldn't have done it. It was a tragic and traumatic experience for those left behind and a lot of them are still struggling to come to terms with it and left wondering why he did it and what they could have done differently to prevent it. Not a nice legacy for 14 and 15 year olds to deal with.
I personally think it is a very cowardly and selfish act - if you are that way inclined, go get some help and sort yourself out - nothing lasts forever and tomorrow may just be your lucky day.

[scumdog]

Less of it would make MY job a little more pleasant...

I wonder if younger ones really realise death is , like, forever and ever??

No 'replay'?

A very thought provoking thread but there are no solutions or 'cure-all' answers.

It claims people from all sections of society and there is no common theme, some 'notes' left with the reason for the suicide make you think 'is that all?' but I guess at that time and in THAT persons life they had an insurmountable problem that was making life to miserable for them - and all they could see was this big black wall on front of them.

[Str8 Jacket]

I personally think it is a very cowardly and selfish act - if you are that way inclined, go get some help and sort yourself out - nothing lasts forever and tomorrow may just be your lucky day.

While I can definately understand where your coming from, I myself have been on "the other side" myself. There were a couple of times that I was told I should not have survived after attempting. After being released form hospital the first time my family were sooo unsupportive it wasnt funny. All they could say was "do you know what you did to us", "how can anyone in the church take us seriously now", blah blah. That was the most darkest time of my life, and I was 11 years old. I cannot explain the overwhelming darkness one feels before attempting suicide, the believe that noone would really care if you were dead. I really believed that I was doing the world a favour, I was so distraught so lonely, in fact even writing this is making me wanna cry and im at work damnit! If you have never been there you cannot understand, its a different world so dark. Its at this time that you feel so alone, you feel like its the only way to make the pain go away.
So yeah I can understand how you see it as selfish, I was so mad at my mates when they died, the pain that people leave behind them when they have gone in unexplainable, but so is the pain of wanting to commit suicide. Its such an evil thing and it makes me so angry and sad and most of all so helpless.

[Hitcher]

Churches have to take some of this on the chin as well, in terms of shaping hostile and condemnatory views in society. Telling people that suicide is a mortal sin and offenders will be denied paradise isn't particularly helpful for the suicidal. It also doesn't do much for the friends and family who survive and ponder the guilt associated with wondering whether they could have done more to help.

[yungatart]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right - I don't understand why any one would feel compelled to end it all. I just know how hard it was to help , not only my son, but 250-odd other year 10 students cope with their classmate's death. I know how helpless I felt and how hard it was to put aside my own anger towards this young person, (I had lost a grandson thru stillbirth only a couple of weeks before), to be there for these kids when they desperately needed someone. I know how angry and depressed hXc still gets over it and how he still wonders what he could have done if only he had known it was that bad for his mate.
Thats why I say, if you feel that way, find some help, talk to someone. Don't leave people behind confused, grieving and wondering for the rest of their lives, could they have done something..
It is still a tragic waste of huge potential and it saddens me so much

[vifferman]

I wonder if younger ones really realise death is , like, forever and ever??

No 'replay'?
Dunno.
One of my kids (two suicide attempts) is so into computer games, he says he'll just "re-spawn" after he kills himself.

[Str8 Jacket]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right -


No offence taken Yungatart, if anything I was agreeing with your opinion. One of the big problems with suicide is there is no one else to blame for the death. The person wasnt killed by another person or event, they killed themselves. When someone you know is killed in such a tragic way it becomes very hard for those friends and family left, they cant be angry at the person that killed their friend or relative, they can only be angry at the person who killed themselves. But these people dont want to be angry at their mate/family member they want to grieve thier loss, thats when it becomes confusing. People need to understand why someone close to them died, but with suicide they cant and never will thats what makes it so hard.
You are right to feel the way you do, as I said I felt like that when my mates killed themselves, thats partly the reason I will never attempt to take my life again.
Sadly noone ever knows how much they really were loved until they die. then its too late.

[vifferman]

- I don't understand why any one would feel compelled to end it all.
Because life just seems so grim, and there is no hope for the future. Hope (and looking forward to things) is what keeps us going. If you can't see things getting any better, and there is a real likelihood of them getting worse, it can become an overwhelming burden.
For me, I am constrained by love: I know several people (including my uncle and maybe my grandfather) who killed themselves, and love my family too much to inflict that pain on them. But... there are times that I feel like I'm too much of a burden to them and not being here would be easier on them once they'd got through the grieving process.

[yungatart]

Sadly noone ever knows how much they really were loved until they die. then its too late.
I guess we just have to make sure that the people we love know we love them.
hXc's mate had a huge funeral and his mates did him proud at his final send off, but you could have cut the air with a knife - the grief was almost palpable!
It was my only experience with suicide. I never want to repeat it.

[Str8 Jacket]

I guess we just have to make sure that the people we love know we love them.hXc's mate had a huge funeral and his mates did him proud at his final send off, but you could have cut the air with a knife - the grief was almost palpable!
It was my only experience with suicide. I never want to repeat it.

Yes! All you can do for a mate going through hard time is just be there mate. Let them know you are there mate and you do care, I choose to believe that even that tiny glimmer of hope will be enough to help coax someone out of their depression. I just wish it really was that black and white, cause in my experience those that want to die, they'll just do it and they wont tell anyone.

My mates funeral a couple of years ago was the most gut wrenching experience of my life, this guy was POPULAR and I maean really popular, he was the class clown and everyone loved him. You never saw him without a smile and he always made you laugh. No one saw his depression, it hurts to think how long he was holding all that hurt in for without telling anyone. HIs funeral packed the church and the surrounding carpark, it was huge. Made me so sad.

[scumdog]

Dunno.
One of my kids (two suicide attempts) is so into computer games, he says he'll just "re-spawn" after he kills himself.

Tell him if he does 're-spawn' he has no choice as to what form he comes back as he, may come back as a sandfly - and not know he was ever anything else. (and sandflys are shit when it comes to computer games).

[mikey]

I wonder if younger ones really realise death is , like, forever and ever?? No 'replay'? A very thought provoking thread but there are no solutions or 'cure-all' answers.

It claims people from all sections of society and there is no common theme, some 'notes' left with the reason for the suicide make you think 'is that all?' but I guess at that time and in THAT persons life they had an insurmountable problem that was making life to miserable for them - and all they could see was this big black wall on front of them.

its a relatively simple concept, actual suicide, not the 15yr old girl attn seeking/cry for help "attempts".....

its the beauty of the beast, it doesnt affect you when your dead!!!!!

an if someone wants to depart this world, they got every right to,
nothing beats being stuck in a place you dont like.

an the suicidee was going to die at some point in life anyway, just choose there own time, an the clean up crew get paid by helen, if they dont like cleaning up after dcead people they should get anohter job!

PRO SUICIDE SUPPORT GROUP - MEET MONDAY TOP OF JAMES COOK HOTEL AT 6

[Coyote]

Well I spent ages writing a response to this thread. It would span across 3 posts I'm pretty sure so I've attached it as a word document to those who want to read it. I've said what's happened to me to make me so depressed and how I feel about it. Since I haven't killed myself it isn't necessarily and accurate depiction of what goes through the mind of a suicidal person, but some of you may be interested. It's not going to be a big help to read it, I just felt like writing it down.

Basically, many of you will never be able to understand why someone would kill themselves. You’re lucky. You’re able to either look at the bright side or get over it. But it’s like my mind isn’t wired in such a way. I’ll dwell on awful thoughts and think of all the cons. You can't just say one nice thing to a depressed person and expect them to be happier; they'll have some thought around that that makes them feel like shit.

Anyway, I've written enough for one day, I'm going to get some lunch

[Fishy]

I have a friend who suffers from depression and is definitely at risk of suicide. He has been in and out of the mental health unit in Middlemore and Monachy House...the problem is though when he goes in there he tells them he is fine and lies about taking his meds so they let him out thinking he is ok. He gets one follow up visit where he just lies to them as well and says he is fine. Then its back to square one again...this has been going on for about 3 years now and most people have given up on him.

He just doesn't want to help himself so it makes it hard for me and others to be able to help him.

I just don't know what to do but I am at this moment quite worried about him.

[scumdog]

Sadly noone ever knows how much they really were loved until they die. then its too late.

Yep, some younger ones have a "I'll show them" mentallity, the trouble is that when they're dead they will never know - life has gone, zip, nadda, no more, no second chance......

Stay around guy, talk to a close friend - and discuss how to change the situation that got you into the 'black' state of mind you're in right now.

Above all else, DON'T bottle it all up.

[Str8 Jacket]

Stay aroun guy, talk to close friend - and dicuss how to change the situation that got you into the 'black' state of mind you're in right now.


Man, I wish it were that simple. From my own experience you hate yourself so much that you dont want to live anymore, you dont want to talk to anyone. You just want to die.

[Rosie]

I guess we just have to make sure that the people we love know we love them.

A friend killed himself when I was 16, I remember my mum saying how devistating it must have been for Glen's parents, because you are always proud of your kids, no matter what happens, and always love them so much. And I was surprised that even though we always seemed to be fighting and mum would threaten to send me to boarding school to get rid of me, my parents really did love me, and were proud of me, even if they didn't always say so.

It was a really hard time for me, but it was also very special, because mum and dad took more time out to show me that they cared, rather than us just yelling at each other because we were tired and stressed after a long day at school/work.

[Joni]

Basically, many of you will never be able to understand why someone would kill themselves. You’re lucky. You’re able to either look at the bright side or get over it. But it’s like my mind isn’t wired in such a way. I’ll dwell on awful thoughts and think of all the cons. You can't just say one nice thing to a depressed person and expect them to be happier; they'll have some thought around that that makes them feel like shit.

Damn well put there Alarumba.

I have a close family member, or should that be "had" a close family member who took his own life. He had attempted to before and we took him through all the normal precesses of councelling and treatment. However, he knew what he wanted and that was not to be here anymore... and eventually he did suceed in his quest.

The results of that action on the people left behind are devastating at times. The pain in my father knocked me for a huge loop for a very long time. Not good to see a person you love , cry so much.

Its a tough subject, that many people will have different views on, but at the end of the day its a serious problem that is very real in our world.

[HDTboy]

All of you who know me now will have a hard time believing this, but I wasn't always the optimistic cheery fellow I am now.

During my fourth form year I was going through a tough patch. My parents had recently broken up, I'd started at a new school where I didn't know anyone, and was copping all sorts of greif from the "cool" kids who even now I feel very dark about.

I'm not sure now how serious I was, but at the time I was contemplating hanging myself. The only thing which stopped me doing it on one particular night was the thought that my (then 3 year old) brother would have to deal with something he never understood and would never remember me, that and I'd never get to see him grow up.

Even now I hold a very special place in my heart for my little brother saving my life without knowing he did

[scumdog]

During my fourth form year I was going through a tough patch. My parents had recently broken up, I'd started at a new school where I didn't know anyone, and was copping all sorts of greif from the "cool" kids who even now I feel very dark about



Amazing how many of those 'cool' kids (who told them they were 'cool' anyway) turn out to be loser arseholes when they get older - but cause so much grief and torment when they're the 'cool gang' at school.

I guess for a short span of time they have some sort of 'power'....

[Sniper]

Very good points made there, but I lost a very very good friend by suicide a couple of months ago. I kept very quiet as its something you deal with in your own rights, but this guy would have been the last person in the world to do this.

I don't doubt you can identify certain individuals who are likely candidates for suicide, but I doubt most can be ID. Unfortunatly once in the frame of mind, its hard to get them out of it.

0.02c

[HDTboy]

So true SD, I think they're still permanently stoned

[Bangbug]

Heavy, heavy heavy.
I quite like those ads on mental illness on TV. 1 in 5 nzrs suffer from a mental illness (or is it disorder?).
Keep it out in the open and they are nice upbeat ads really.
I like the coalminer one....... kev? ron? larry? something manly.
Good on the buggers for getting on TV, very nice and brave of them.
I think all of use in some way have a mental illness, its just that the symptoms are varied. perhaps that mental illness is life and the killer robots will soon come and clense us of our burdon.
:bash:

[MikeyG]

Good on you Alarumba for having the balls to say how you feel.

I've had a problem with depression for 5 years or more, I haven't attempted suicide yet but I've had it planned out a few times. I agree with the people on the site that have said "unless you have been there you cannot understand"

Some people say get help and sort yourself out. It isn't that easy! I've been on various anti-depressants for years. Prozac/fluoxetine makes me feel hollow and emotionless up to the point where I want to cut myself just to feel something. Citalopram stops me from sleeping so I have to take sleeping pills every night and I end up getting totally screwed up chemically, and it stops my family jewels from working and that fucks with my ego. Tricyclics make me put on weight and that depresses me more. Counselling makes me think about and talk about my issues but doesn't help sort them out, it just makes me dwell on them more.

I've got to the point now where I'm so fed up with the side-effects of the meds that I've talked to the doctor and stopped taking them. I have days when it all seems too much and I wish I was dead or want to kill myself but luckily I have three good flatmates and a couple of workmates who I've told what's going on and who look-out for me.

So hopefully I'll handle things without the pills for a while. Anyway, I've got a new anti-depressant and it's got two wheels.

[inlinefour]

Known a few that succeeded, met plenty that have not. Know what to do to keep them safe when they are in the acute phase and how to link them up to the right people, once they are safe. Can't say I've ever had the thoughts or the want to do it either. Read plenty of the so called theory though. I really enjoy getting someone through the acute phase, provided that the stressors are started to be resolved or delt with once the individual is in a space to accept the help from others.

[hXc]

Well guys, this thread has certainly brought out a lot of emotion for me. I'm sure it has for others too, judging by the posts.

After my friend killed himself last year, I've had a different view on suicide. Beforehand, I thought that anyone who does it is a complete fuck who has a lot of problems and just wants the easy way out. Now, I see it like Str8 Jacket and other people who have attempted it.

It was unreal for me when I first got told at interval by a friend that Meeckal had killed himself. I didn't believe it at all. I thought that it was just a sick, sad joke. We went off to class and our dean came in, telling us how angry he was about some sick rumours going around. He told us to all grow up! At that point I started to think, "Something doesn't feel right." I then stopped what I was doing and looked out the window. What I saw, literally made me fall off my chair. I saw Meeckal in the sky, with the rope around his neck. At that point I realised that it was no joke.

The same dean came in 2 minutes later and told us to get our stuff and go to the hall. I needed help to walk even that far. At this point I was not crying, but feeling so empty it was un-imaginable. Our principal told our class first. That was when it became so real I just went completely blank and started to cry. I had so many people around me; hugging me, talking to me etc. Everybody was so supportive of me and my other mate Anton. We were Meeckal's best mates and it was so unbeleivably hard for us.

I don't think that anyone who has ever felt that emptiness before can imagine how hard it is. I felt like that for a whole week. I still feel empty and I still cry. I still get angry at the littlest, most stupid things. What I have experienced will be with me for the rest of my life. What I continue to feel will be with me for the rest of my life.

Writing this made me almost cry. I'm shaking right now. Nobody deserves to feel that way. And I mean that. No matter how bad they are, it's something nobody should have to go through.

At 15, it was the hardest thing in my life I have ever had to deal with. And I hope that it never happens again. A lot of what I have just written is the first time anybody will hear about it, even my parents. Whom I have a lot of respect for. I feel it's brought us closer together in a lot of ways. The support they gave me: If I wanted to yell and bash things, they would let me; If I wanted to be left alone, they would leave me alone; If I wanted a hug, they would hug me.

Things will always remind me of Meeckal and I have to accept that. I also have to accept the fact that he will never come back. It took me 4-5 months to go back to his grave. And I have only been back once. The truth is, I hate it up there. All the green grass and happy flowers are completely un-true to the way I feel up there. Everything goes black and I could sit there for an hour and not realise, thinking that it's only been 5 minutes.

Well I feel I've said enough. But if you do know anyone contemplating suicide, just be there for them and do ANYTHING you can to stop them. It's a horrible thing to deal with. Although it may have matured me, it's left a big black hole in my heart which will never, ever be fixed.

[Coyote]

I don't want to make anyone feel that way, that's the main reason why I haven't taken my own life. But to many people they would feel so down about themselves that they wouldn't take this into consideration. I've been like this too. You feel like you don't matter and when you do take your own life you'll be lucky if they even bury you. Most of the time I've felt like I don't even exist anyway so why would it be a problem if I ended my suffering? When I think clearly about everything I realise how ridiculous it is to think my life is so bad because I could be a hell of a lot worse off. But as I learnt in Phys Ed last year, depression is a mental illness, not a self infliction as such. So really anyone that has depression will be able to make their life seem horrible anyway, despite being very well off. I can look at my life and realise I'm pretty smart (the last thing I want to do is get big headed, but I'm trying to prove a point), I have very nice parents who are together, my family is by no means rich but we're fairly well off, my parents have been really supportive getting me into bikes and I have some very good friends. But you just don't think about that when you're depressed. You think well I'm not that smart if I can get depressed over such small things, my parents are overly protective and don't let me go to parties and such, my bike is like a 5th of the cost of my brothers and 10x less money goes into running it and I'm not very good at being social. These thoughts are all very stupid and selfish but it's like you can't help thinking such shit.

[hXc]

... ... ...

I know exactly what you mean. I have been through the "Everybody hates me and my life sucks" stage. It truly is how you say it though. And a lot of people don't realise that.

Meeckal got diagnosed(sp?) with depression a week before he killed himself. The doctor rang his mum the next day wanting to tell her that he had counselling and all that sort of stuff organised and available. She just said, "Too fucking late now! He's dead 'cause you were on fucking holiday." She then hung up.

Depression is an illness that doesn't only make you pessimistic about life, it plays with your mind and it makes you think that way. All because after a while, you get used to thinking that way.

[hXc]

A thing that his mum said to all of us was: "If you're ever feeling depressed or just wanting to talk about things, then ring me. I know what it's like and I may be able to help. We did all we could for Meeckal, but unfortunately it didn't happen fast enough. I don't know many of you, but I know that all of your parents love you and I don't want to see any other parent go through what I am going through right now."

That has stuck with me since that day. So please, anybody thinking about it...Don't do it. You are loved and you are cared about. It's all I can really say.

[RiderInBlack]

Well I'm really proud of ya all here. Ya have handle this thread well. For those of ya that have or are battling with depression, ya are not alone. I too have come close ta ending my life when I was 30. What can I say, I felt that there was nothing in life for me. For me, empowering myself and choosing ta see a councillor "saved" my life. Sure there are still times that I feel worthless in life, but now I know that that is not true. Every living thing no matter how big or how small as a part to play in life. Ya don't need ta be the Queen, a Rock Star, or an All-black ta be a very import person to the very special people in ya life (some you will not even don't know exist). Everyone here on this site (yes even the ones that fu*k me off now and again) I will miss if something was ta happen to them. Everyone of you make KB what it is, something that is way more than just a web site about bikes:niceone:

[ajturbo]

i have lost (?) 4 mate's to this..... and i felt the pain of their loved one's like it was my own. BUT i didn't feel any sorrow at the loss...(!?:bash: ?!).....and strange thing here... over the last few days i have been thinking about THE END,
the other night we (mud Boy and i ) went rabbit/possum shooting, luke being young, swung around with the shot gun and it went passed 3 of us at head hight... it was empty.. not the point i know, so i spat the dummy big time. but latter that night i started to think about could have happened... "what if".. and to be honest with ya's i really could see the up side, no more bills to pay, ... i could go on here, and you could reply .."but what about Mud Boy"?... his mum is still alive....and in a couple of years time he will be out on his own anyway... at his age i was on my own most of the time...
sure this sounds selffish, all about me, me ,me... but who, what else is there?..

sorry for the rave, i don't want to offend anyone here...just this is how i feel about it

[hXc]

I'd just like to thank Motoracer for starting this thread. It's made me see a side of some that I never knew existed and it's been an extremely 'sobering' read. I know for alarumba and myself, it took a lot of guts to post what we did. And I'm sure it would have been the same for others.

Thanks mate! Rep on the way.

[BuFfY]

I agree with the comment made about this thread being 'sobering' as mentioned by hXc. The people who have spoken up about their troubled times are very brave and such stories help the rest of us on here realise and be more aware of what is going through the mind of sufferers (both first hand and vicariously).

I did YellowRibbon at school... Was something I wanted to do as soon as I found out about it... but to be honest, it did nothing at all to help.

One thing I love to read is the chicken soup for the teenage soul and all the other ones in the series. I fully recommend them to anyone who was touched by this thread.

I know most of us have felt at some point in our lives... what the hell is the point?! Whether it is after the loss of someone close, a break up, stress from uni/work etc etc etc and some times we don't tell anyone it is effecting us... don't want to look weak or bring unwanted attention.... or even feel like noone cares anyway. And it is so hard when you are a teenager... you feel like the whole world is against you.

One thing I find horrible about suicide is that when they fail to kill themselves they feel even worse... like they can't even do that right. And talking about it takes time... bringing up the past is awful! Like it has been put in the past for a reason and bringing it up can bring them down further, it's a long road

[Andrew]

A question for those who have experienced depression. Have you ever walked around in the supermarket/whatever and have picked up on people who seem depressed. Could it be that those who are depressed are more "in tune" with, or can pick up more easily those suffering from the inside??

[surfchick]

thanks for this thread people-
compared with other places NZ has very disturbing suicide rates esp among males. lost an ex-boyfriend who killed himself with exhaust fumes. then i was in a black hole for a year or two after...

takes alot of guts to post up what some of you been through. respect.
xx

[Skyryder]

Was about to let this one ride. But have had a little experiance on the subject.

First of all there are no answers as to why someone commits suicide. For family and friends this is usually the first question that comes to mind 'Why' and this us not unreasonable. It is only human nature to look at ourselves and see if we could have done anything differently to prevent a suicide. But for those that have lost a loved one the sad fact is the answer dies too.

I have a nephew who hanged himself. I use the word have in the present tense as I still have this nephew. He is alive today in my memory as he was in real life. He 'is' someone who I 'clicked' with. He's a little zany with a sense of humour that was a little off beat. Talented in a way that 'is' never apreciated. One of lifes oddballs. I've stopped asking why many years ago. In time you realize 'why' is not important. It's the memory that counts.

For those of you who have either attempted or have thoughts in this direction
I can only say that even in the deepest depression remember "Life is a constant change. Nothing stays the same. In time things 'do' get better. It's hard to think positive when depressed believe me I know but it's not impossible.

Skyryder

[Edbear]

Because life just seems so grim, and there is no hope for the future. Hope (and looking forward to things) is what keeps us going. If you can't see things getting any better, and there is a real likelihood of them getting worse, it can become an overwhelming burden.
For me, I am constrained by love: I know several people (including my uncle and maybe my grandfather) who killed themselves, and love my family too much to inflict that pain on them. But... there are times that I feel like I'm too much of a burden to them and not being here would be easier on them once they'd got through the grieving process.



Do you see a pattern here, Viff? You've said an Uncle, poss Grandfather, your son tried twice? You feel this way? Are you getting help? HAs anything here helped? Sorry to single you out, but your posts rang a bell with me.

[Scorpygirl]

A very thought-provoking topic and thanks to everyone for being so supportive and honest. All I can say is Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui.

I had a brother-in-law commit suicide by taking paraquat. He passed away three days later in ICU. He had bipolar disorder. It devastated us but I could also understand cause of my own depression.

As for me I know all about depression and suicide attempts. My last attempt was very touch and go in ICU and I was lucky to have no lasting organ damage. I have spoken about this in other threads on the topic. So I totally understand what people are saying.

I am sorry I can't write anymore about it.

[SPman]

I've had an Uncle, an Aunt and 13 cousins top themselves in the last 40 odd years.They werent all teenagers - the first funeral I ever went to was to Dads brother, who shot himself.! One lot of cousins lost the Mother, daughter and one of two sons! - the daughter threw herself off a bridge - after appearing to be quite happy for the preceeding 2 weeks! The Son cut his throat with a breadknife at a mates flat - it wasnt nice. Most came out of the blue - no immediate warning. Perhaps, if you could delve into their minds, you could have seen it coming - in some of them, anyway.....
Having approached the door myself, on several occaisions, all I can say is that it is like a dark, all enveloping ball of absolute hopelessness and despair -and the line between acting on it, or not, can be incredibly fine. All that stopped me was the knowledge of what suicides do to families - Ive seen it since 1962 - and it isnt nice. I guess I was lucky in that I could stand back and consider this.....because, once you cross that line in your mind, you are normally lost.

[FROSTY]

Depression is like a deep dark pit. The world weighs ya down like carrying lead weights on your shoulders.
Every day drags on and you feel bone tired all the time.
Dying is just well easier than the effort of carrying on with life.

[kickingzebra]

Trying to think about the really serious people I have been around in that state. I would be lying to say I had never thought of it... Driving the 300zx at top speed, looking for a bridge with good concrete pillars to hit.

Was always too chicken at that moment though. Scared it would hurt. How dumb, was all I could think of to myself. For me it was debt, disability, and nothing I could do. Completely powerless, over everything in my life.

Thought of taking pills etc, but couldn't stomach the thought of something aching in my gut while I was still conscious. I would go out surfing by myself at TeArai, or the Forestry, and just think, I could float on out there, never be seen again. Then I would think about lying on the board, in the middle of the ocean, and being so thirsty.

The worst time was when I was working in a job I hated, with such a passion, but was being manipulated into working there, long night shift hours, no social contact, and I am a fairly social sort of beast.

It was four on four off, 12 to 14 hour shifts, and I hit the last night off. I went to see the couple of people who I looked up to, to try and get some sense out of my life, but they just couldn't understand where I was coming from, I never mentioned the word suicide, but I tried every way i could of hinting at it, hoping they would pull out some magic bullet, solve my problems, and it would all go away.

The problems were Debt, a young lady (surprise surprise) and just not knowing where I was going in the future, I was dying (no pun intended) to have it all planned out and happening. I didn't want to live the intermediate parts of Life, I wanted movie highlights.

So I talked to 2 people that night, and niether of them had the time of day. I should have guessed I wasn't quite in a right state of mind, because when that happens, I pick up cigarettes. Not to mock the people on here that do smoke, I always hated the habit, and have been an asthmatic for as long as I remember, but I had the smokes, and was working my way through the packet. Went and saw the first guy that night because he caught me, and I didn't want him to think I had issues... how bizarre in hindsight.
He couldn't help, so on to the second.

Was after midnight by then, and I hadn't been sleeping properly, night shift, and no peace within a person can be a deadly combination.

I jumped in my (2 week old cashed up, but not insured) car, (on my restricted) and started driving. Hit the turnoff for home, but the tears were so thick in my eyes, I couldn't see, and didn't want to go there, to feel the emptiness of my life anyway. So I carried on driving from Snells Beach to Warkworth, in towards Auckland, thinking, I will aim for Marton, to see Mum and Dad, or perhaps crash full frontal into a truck.

May sound weird, but that is pretty well my thoughts at the time verbatim.

So Im nearly at the turnoff to the sattelite station, and my emotions are fuelling themselves, the abyss of blackness is getting deeper, and deeper, I am so far into this absolute despair of anything, that I would have taken the first opportunity out, tears are everywhere, I have taken off my glasses (I am as blind as a bat without them) because they are so streaked with tears and fogged up from the heat of my face.

Then out of the corner of my eye, I see this girl, on the side of the road.
It was like a slap in the face. The tears stop, and I stop, and reverse back up to her, clean my glasses, and put them on, just as she comes walked up to the car. She is in bare feet, at 1:20 in the morning, (sunday night, queens birthday weekend 2002) So it is bloody cold (for auckland) clear night, and there stands this woman, about to get in the car with a young man that is thinking of not much other than ending the pain.

Even though I had thought of crashing into oncoming traffic, I didn't actually want to cause any pain, I just wanted to be away from mine. So to see this woman, on the side of the road, barefoot, obviously not in the happiest way herself, my heart revives itself from my pity party on a grand scale, and I put on the cheeriest face I can, and invite her into the car. As soon as she gets in, she sees my face, stil awash with tears, and the blotchiness of crying.

I suppose then, as the scientific principle states, two opposing waveforms cancelled each other, as we both pushed our own problems right to the back of our heads, and began trying to figure out what was wrong with the other person, and trying to help them. That is why I still have faith in the human spirit.

Turns out, she lived in Waiuku, some absolute dropkick of a guy had taken her out for a date, gone up to the bridgehouse in Warkworth, started flirting with an old flame, and ignoring the lady he was out with. After he was rude to her when she confronted him, she just left. Her womanly shoe things sandals, whatever, were still in his car, but she just started walking.

I always worry when I see any lady out hitchhiking, that if I don't pick them up, someone who doesn't have morals will, and will rape and pillage them. Hence I normally pick up female hitchhikers regardless.

I said I would take her home to Waiuku, which blew her away. Its not Like I had anything better to do, I was just going to go and kill myself, and leave a mess for the Speedmedics of this world to clean up.

At this stage I was 19 I suppose. Talked all the way back to her house, and then went inside for a coffee. She had warmed to me by this stage enough to offer me the night in her bed. Call it blind luck, but being as naieve and one eyed as I was then, if I had of realised what she was offering, I may have jumped at the chance. Instead, at 4:10 in the morning I decide to head for home.

Suicidal urges gone, my problems faded into near insignificance, I happily carry on my way. Starting to get tired now, as I think I had been two or three nights without sleep. I stop on the motorway, just before the Silverdale offramp, because I was so tired, I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore. Climp in the back seat, and fall asleep, only to be woken by a rapping on the window. Policeman stands there knocking with his torch. its 7 in the morning now. He tells me I am not allowed to stop there, and have to move on, after asking if I have been drinking. I say no. He doesn't check. (I hadn't)

feeling much less tired, but knowing that fatigue is still there, and not feeling at all like killing myself, I go to McDs, buy breakfast of pancakes, stop at the beach to eat them.

That done, I hit the road again. It has started drizzling now. I go up waiwera hill, get halfway down, going about 50 (if I recall rightly) and the front wheels spin out to the right, meaning the car is heading towards driving off the cliff.
Crap my daks, not wanting to die at all right at this moment, and spin the wheel to the left, full lock. Wheels clear the diesel spill, bite into the road, the car rolls, slides, then stops, and lands on its wheels again. All so fast.

There is blood all over my pants, and my hawaian shirt (green, not at all like affmans). My glasses have been wiped off my face in the crash. A truck I passed on the way out of orewa (it was still a 100 km zone then) stops on its way down the hill.
A mitsi diamante on its way up stops. If I had of been going 10 seconds earlier, I would have hit it.
I ask the truck driver to find my glasses, after I have climbed out the drivers window, door stoved right in. I look around while waiting, then as the glassses are handed to me, I see blood streaming down my arm. I am standing in a rather large puddle of my own blood.

Suicide is the furtherest thing from my mind, and I am impressed with my collected head, and stoicism. I request someone find my cellphone, so I can call my parents. The battery is flat.
The Diamante Lady offers me hers. I decline, don't want to get blood on it. She insists, I ring Mum, and say, I have had an accident, I am ok, but am waiting for the ambulance, oh, here is the police, I better go.
The police come, say to me, it is cold, come sit in my car. I am still convinced I don't want to get blood on anything.
The ambulance comes, I am allowed the joy of riding in the front seat.

This starts to erk me. 8 hours earlier, I was hellbent on erasing myself from this planets memory, now something bad happens, and I am not even in sufficiently bad enough state to be in the stretcher.
I laugh at the irony. I have to hold my own combine dressing on to try and stop too many leaks swilling around the lino floor of the old diesel, as it labours up waiwera hill.

I get closer to north shore hospital, and my abdomen starts hurting. I have a lot of glass imbedded in my right arm, deeply. It is cold. I know enough about internal bleeding to be getting scared now. The possibility of death is there, and what can be done. Really scared. now I know i don't want to die, it is too cold, too sterile. No hope once you are dead.

I tell the emergency doctor my abdomen is hurting.

All the while I am cracking jokes, trying to make light of the situation. The irony is cracking me up. They don't know my frame of mind from the night just gone, so don't quite see all the humour. I feel sorry for them, working public holidays, obviously understaffed.

I get given a pee cup. Blood mixes with urine. I'm scared again, and resolute that I am not going to die. Such a turnaround, I am astonished with myself, on one hand, I have nothing to live for, and everything to die for, but on the otherhand, a potential opportunity at death exists, and I refuse point blank to even think about accepting it.

Where does the will to live come from?

I am given x rays on my arm, and torso, then left sitting in the waiting room. I see a little girl with bandages on her arm, and what look like burn scars on her forehead. I feel so sad for her.

[kickingzebra]

The doctor brutally pulls all of the glass out of my arm, and finds some in my scalp too. A little bit of local, and squeeze, just like popping a pimple. The glass is out, re xray to make sure.

I'm getting tired now.

My phone is still dead. The hospital lets me call up some elderly friends of mine to come pick me up. The internal bleeding isn't bad, if it gets worse, I should see my doctor, but it shouldn't be a problem.

My friend arrives, and I ask to borrow his phone. I call Mum. She is a mess, yelling at me, "you ring, and tell me you have to go to hospital, and then I have no idea what is happening, or where you are. Why couldn't you call?"
I left my wallet in the car, couldn't buy a phone card. Its 3 in the afternoon. I am just worn out now. Emotional highs, lows, everything in between, and I haven't eaten since breakfast. Lost a lot of blood.
She tells me I should ring my brother, and tell him what has happened.

He is working as a salesman in Wellington. Not doing amazingly well at that I might add.
I phone him. He is in Hunterville. as soon as he heard I crashed, he begged borrowed and stole money off all of his friends to bring me his car, and make sure I am alright.

I feel like the biggest piece of shit on the face of the planet. I think no one cares, and they don't know what I was going to do. And thier response proves without a shadow of a doubt that I am loved so dearly.

He arrives at midnight, and nearly drives the car off the edge of the clifflike driveway I had in Sandspit. One rear wheel is stuck over the edge, and Eventually we manage to recover the vehicle without losing it to gravity. It is undamaged; A holden commodore station wagon.

Its now three in the morning, and I am worn right out, emotionally, physically drained.
Finally I collapse in the sleep of the dead.

The next morning I awake to an incredily sore belly, with tight spots down low. My arm really hurts, as does my head, from all the glass cuts. I realise how serious the accident was/could have been, when my brother buys me a pie. I finish eating it, and try to crinkle the paper wrapper up to put it in the bin. I can't. My arm is too weak to crush paper.


The things that brings to the fore for me?
I learnt I was not invincible, before that, death was surreal, not scary, not even sad, just there. After these events, I realised It can happen, and when it does, it can be so quick.

I realised how selfish my view of the world was. I had to end my pain, because I couldn't figure out my life.

I realised that when you ask people for help, they don't always know how to give it.

I began to realise, and this is ongoing, how little in control I actually am. There are a million examples of this. I can only control what happens inside me, and what I do in return. Everything else is variable. The illusion of control in our lives is just that, an illusion. We depend on people we have never seen for the very food we eat. We are not in control of our lives. We can only try and understand, and control our own emotions, and our own selves.

I realised that I was cared for, and greatly so. I was so humbled. What would the response have been if I had succeeded at offing myself? what if I had managed to top some unsuspecting truckdriver as well? What impact would I have had on the people who would have been there to clean up?

Would anyone even know it was suicide? There was some "righteous" vindication, in the mind of me, by making people think and feel about what they would have lost if I was to die at my own hand. I wanted the sympathy. Of course one wouldn't want that while alive, so one has to be dead to get it. The irony of not being able to appreciate it while dead was unimportant to me.

I learnt that in dealing with people who have been serious about killing themselves, the only thing to do is to establish trust, and let them talk. We too easily solve peoples problems, when they don't neccesarily need to be solved, just shared, put into perspective. They aren't put into perspective by us saying, "well, look at what you have!" they are minimised by openly listening, not judging, and not telling, not fixing.

I found out that the great equaliser, is to be in the position where one can help other people. It is hard to look on ones own misfortune, when graphically faced with the plight of someone else, more heart rending than your own.

I would be a liar to say that I still don't suffer from the depression. The difference is now, I try and talk about it. I might ring my parents, and say, hell, I don't care if you don't understand, can I just talk? I try and talk to my wife, although that can be hard, because one wants to appear strong to ones spouse. I write things like this. Hell, I was feeling the march of the Black Dog last night. I did just that, I rung my parents, talked for an hour and a half.

Now I sit here, and write this, and remember to myself, that it is passing, that the feelings aren't the only truth, much less the whole truth. The reality of any situation is much more than I can see at this point in my emotional cycle.

I know this is very long, so full credit to you if you read it all, I hope it helps you in some way. I can assure you, it has fogged up my eyes tonight, and when I am tempted to take the hardass view of suicide, I just need to remember how it has plagued me, and other people very close to me.
I too have had friends die from suicide. The thought that strikes me is that it feels so empty without these people. Something is missing, and it doesn't feel right, unlike someone dying of old age, that is still hard, but when you are expecting it, it is part of the cycle of life. The loss is not as keen, the greif not as clear and present. The sorrow is tinged with happy memories. Suicide just steals that person away, leaving a bitter taste.

Cheers guys.

Anyone wanting to take the piss, go for gold, I have broader shoulders now, and hopefully a wiser head on them.

[scumdog]

Good one, I read it all.

Only takes a small 'bolt from the blue' to give you a new perspective on life eh?

[kickingzebra]

Perspective is the never ending new horizon...
(I just made that up, does it sound flash?)

[scumdog]

Perspective is the never ending new horizon...
(I just made that up, does it sound flash?)

I'd go with that!

There is always something new and exciting on the horizon if you look hard enough.....

[Mrs Busa Pete]

[QUOTE=kickingzebra]
I have read the lot and i would suggest that anyone that has said that they care or can't understand read the lot as well.The thing is it was not your time to go and the accident was for you to see that as well.I think you will understand what i'm saying.
I to have tryed but the differance is that to me pills where the easy way because i dont like pain and the thought of driving into someone else car or cutting my wrists well that would hurt.Do you know when some one is think of taking there own life that a lot of thought goes into the how and the when.The night i tryed i had no feeling what so ever i just though they would be all better off without me and that they would have to find someone else to shit on.I to was told how the hell i survived bet them i was in a coma for two days and icu for another two days.I can't say i would not try again i don't know because on an average i fight with that thought 5 out of 7 days a week and that is year round there are a couple of things that stops me now and that is someone will have to find me and also my grandchildren. but if i do i know what i have to take i will go out of my way to get it and that was care of the my doctor i wonder if he relized what he told me i dont think so someone asked earlyer in this thread do depressed people notice other depressed people when they are in the supermarket the answer is no because we are pretty good a hidding what we feel.the other thing is when i'm down i dont leave the house i'm to tire i cant get dressed i dont eat so dont need anything from supermarket anyway. That is enought from me.
IF YOU ARE AROUND SOMEONE YOU THINK IS IN A SUICIDE STATE OF MIND
stay with them don't talk unless they want to talk don't offer advice unless they ask for it. Auckland hospital has a crises team there give them a call and they will send the right person to help.DONT LEAVE THEM ALONE.To all you that are out there with this problem take care look after yourself and should you want someone just to sit with give a call and i will be there this goes out to anyone that is having to deal with someone that is depressed as well:grouphug:

[RiderInBlack]

All I can say is Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui.Thanks for that Scorpy. Been looking for that proverb for a while now. Could ya translate it? Think it gets something like: Stand tall, Stand proud ........ But I cann't remember it all now.

[RiderInBlack]

Thank you Mods (you know why).

[MSTRS]

Anyone wanting to take the piss, go for gold, I have broader shoulders now, and hopefully a wiser head on them.
Wow, what a story of hope. No way would I take the piss. I would like to know whether that girl from Waiuku is now your wife. Either way, you are blessed.

Thank you Mods (you know why).
Yes indeed....thanks from me too

[Smorg]

I was surprised that even though we always seemed to be fighting and mum would threaten to send me to boarding school to get rid of me,
.

You would have loved it mate, I went to an all boys boarding school out in the New England Country in NSW Australia and loved every second of it.
I had a friend there who commited suicide when i was 15. I think he had been troubled for sometime and had been contemplating suicide and had slit his wrists on one occasion but finished the job with an oncoming train. Used to call him the BFG (big fucking giant) 6 foot 6 when he was 15, nicest guy you've ever met and one of the boys to every extent. I often wish that if i had been a bit more mature and a little less ignorant that i might have been able to make a bit of a difference to the way he was thinking. I'll always remember sitting in the school hall while they called the boys out one by one then made the annoucement to the school. We had heard something about it on the radio but no names had been mentioned. Worst day of my life, cant begin to think what it was like for his parents

[kickingzebra]

Wow, what a story of hope. No way would I take the piss. I would like to know whether that girl from Waiuku is now your wife. Either way, you are blessed.

Yes indeed....thanks from me too

Nope, not my wife I am afraid. In all of that I never even got her contact details! I think that I think makes the whole thing more powerful, strangers to be sure, but a bond beyond words, and the willingness to help out a total stranger, in defereance to ones own problems.

I met my wife probably 6 months later.

The girl I was pining for in the first place married another Jonathan.
Hindsight tells me I am quite glad I didn't win her!

[Milky]

Big thanks to Motoracer for starting this thread up, and to those who have shared their experiences.
I have been very close before, but ever since hearing from one of my close friends about his experience I have a reminder not to. He was one of those vibrant, happy seeming people, amazingly successful at sport, and definitely not one I would have guessed would try. He had the rope up in the basement, was standing on the chair about to kick it away when he heard a voice saying 'Matt, I have great plans for you.' Since then he has been heavily involved in church and is now representing NZ in AFL. He is probably the deciding factor for me sticking around.


It's quality of life, not quantity.

Amen to that.

[kickingzebra]

Good points Milky, Motoracer, Cheers for bringing it up.
I must say that having God in my life has been a huge help. Some would say maybe it is the cause of half the problem. I can't answer that.
Others might say christianity is a crutch.

I say there isn't a person in this world without some problems, and for them, if they like, christianity can be a stretcher.

It isn't wrong to admit you need help, but it pays to be wise in who you solicit the help from, not all professionals are equal, for example. Some show much more empathy, which helps for me, nothing is worse than speaking with someone in depth about your problems, when they don't or can't understand to some small degree.

[HDTboy]

I'd like to say that it has been VERY difficult for me to write stuff here, as I feel extremely vulnerable in doing so. I hope this thread (a) enlightens those who are ignorant, and (b) offers some solace or help in some way to those who are afflicted.

I feel the same, but to a lesser degree as I've not gone into great detail like others.

If anyone does want to talk to me about anything I'm usually available, and will offer anything I can

[Motu]

It was the third of June, another sleepy, dusty Delta day
I was out choppin' cotton and my brother was balin' hay
And at dinner time we stopped and walked back to the house to eat
And Mama hollered out the back door "y'all remember to wipe your feet"
And then she said "I got some news this mornin' from Choctaw Ridge"
"Today Billy Joe MacAllister jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"

And Papa said to Mama as he passed around the blackeyed peas
"Well, Billy Joe never had a lick of sense, pass the biscuits, please"
"There's five more acres in the lower forty I've got to plow"
And Mama said it was shame about Billy Joe, anyhow
Seems like nothin' ever comes to no good up on Choctaw Ridge
And now Billy Joe MacAllister's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge

And Brother said he recollected when he and Tom and Billie Joe
Put a frog down my back at the Carroll County picture show
And wasn't I talkin' to him after church last Sunday night?
"I'll have another piece of apple pie, you know it don't seem right"
"I saw him at the sawmill yesterday on Choctaw Ridge"
"And now you tell me Billie Joe's jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge"

And Mama said to me "Child, what's happened to your appetite?"
"I've been cookin' all morning and you haven't touched a single bite"
"That nice young preacher, Brother Taylor, dropped by today"
"Said he'd be pleased to have dinner on Sunday, oh, by the way"
"He said he saw a girl that looked a lot like you up on Choctaw Ridge"
"And she and Billy Joe was throwing somethin' off the Tallahatchie Bridge"

A year has come 'n' gone since we heard the news 'bout Billy Joe
And Brother married Becky Thompson, they bought a store in Tupelo
There was a virus going 'round, Papa caught it and he died last Spring
And now Mama doesn't seem to wanna do much of anything
And me, I spend a lot of time pickin' flowers up on Choctaw Ridge

And drop them into the muddy water off the Tallahatchie Bridge

[Coyote]

One thing I love to read is the chicken soup for the teenage soul and all the other ones in the series. I fully recommend them to anyone who was touched by this thread.
Haha, my old PE teacher would use that as punishment for anyone talking in the middle of class. They would have to stand up in front of class and recite and extract from the book. A good laugh when a tough rugby player is forced to tell about their first period :p Otherwise, it's a good book I must admit

Must say I feel a whole lot better reading this thread to know I'm not the only one that has felt like shit and that I'm doing the right thing by enduring my life. Thanks to everyone :2thumbsup

[hXc]

Well I must say that I've thought about suicide since Meeckal killed himself. It stopped at the thought though. The thing stopping me is, I'm just too fucking scared. I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm too scared of what I will be leaving behind. I know that a lot of people care about me and I couldn't bear(sp?) to leave them all behind.

This thread has brought me even further away from the thought of ending my life. But it still doesn't stop me from being depressed. I have not been to a doctor, so I don't know if I actually have depression. Although, I think I do. I haven't even confronted my parents or anyone else about it yet. I'm not sure how to. Of course they will read this but I still don't really know what to do about it.

But thank you all for your thoughts, experiences and messages.

[Scorpygirl]

Thanks for that Scorpy. Been looking for that proverb for a while now. Could ya translate it? Think it gets something like: Stand tall, Stand proud ........ But I cann't remember it all now.


Hi Rider-in-Black

It translates as Be strong, be brave, be steadfast and sure.

[RiderInBlack]

"Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui"
Hi Rider-in-Black

It translates as Be strong, be brave, be steadfast and sure.Thanks heaps Scorpy. First heard that one while doing my RN training and have been racking my brain trying ta remember it. Has very special significance for me. Thanks again:Punk:

[Scorpygirl]

"Kia kaha, kia toa, kia manawanui"Thanks heaps Scorpy. First heard that one while doing my RN training and have been racking my brain trying ta remember it. Has very special significance for me. Thanks again:Punk:

No problem RIB!!! It's a good saying to keep in mind.

[RiderInBlack]

No problem RIB!!! It's a good saying to keep in mind.Aye:cool: Helped big time during my nurse training years.

[T.I.E]

someone i knew couldn't stand the pain he felt anymore, hispartner threatened him often about taking his 3 children away from him. i can not understand. he loved his children so much. that was one of the main reasons i found out later on. there were other factors too.

he went into the garage made a noose, didn't stand on a box he stood there placed it over his head and around his neck and then just relaxed. his feet were dragging on the ground. all he had to do was stand up. but his world was so dark he wanted to be rid of his pain.

he just did not want the pain in his life.

i can understand parts of what made him do it and i feel for him.
and he will be missed.

but i could not believe all he had to do was stand up.

[Scorpygirl]

he just did not want the pain in his life.

i can understand parts of what made him do it and i feel for him.
and he will be missed.

but i could not believe all he had to do was stand up.

I think that is just it TIE you can't stand up and face the world anymore, your feet just drag on the ground day after day. That is the reality for some.

[Jackrat]

No time for people that want to kill themselfs,or pretend they do because their looking for sympathy.They come looking round here, I'd lend them a rope an point to the closest tree.
Fuck being understanding,it's the ultimate show of selfishness.
They should be held in total contempt an maybe it wouldn't look like such a good idea after all.
An before all the bleeding hearts start on about my never knowing any loser that's done it or tried to do it,,,I fucking have an that's the very reason why I have no time for these parasites.
Fuck em' Darwin had a plan,these twats are proving him right.

[T.I.E]

I think that is just it TIE you can't stand up and face the world anymore, your feet just drag on the ground day after day. That is the reality for some.

i was one of the first people there i had to cut him down. and stuff happened after that, but that not for this forum.

i miss that boy.

[Scorpygirl]

No time for people that want to kill themselfs,or pretend they do because their looking for sympathy.They come looking round here, I'd lend them a rope an point to the closest tree.
Fuck being understanding,it's the ultimate show of selfishness.
They should be held in total contempt an maybe it wouldn't look like such a good idea after all.
An before all the bleeding hearts start on about my never knowing any loser that's done it or tried to do it,,,I fucking have an that's the very reason why I have no time for these parasites.
Fuck em' Darwin had a plan,these twats are proving him right.

You are not worth replying to!!! <Spit>

[Mrs Busa Pete]

No time for people that want to kill themselfs,or pretend they do because their looking for sympathy.They come looking round here, I'd lend them a rope an point to the closest tree.
Fuck being understanding,it's the ultimate show of selfishness.
They should be held in total contempt an maybe it wouldn't look like such a good idea after all.
An before all the bleeding hearts start on about my never knowing any loser that's done it or tried to do it,,,I fucking have an that's the very reason why I have no time for these parasites.
Fuck em' Darwin had a plan,these twats are proving him right.

Well i guess you won't want to come to my bbq then.No worry's because there are a lot of nicer people on this site that will except us for who we are and not try to put us down. And as for holding me in contempt for being born with a few less or a few more gens in my brain well that would be no great loss because with friends like you people won't need enamys

[Coyote]

You are not worth replying to!!! <Spit>
Yet you just did :p

I know what he's getting at. Suicide is very selfish, you're taking your own life from everyone else. You're also tearing up a lot of other people's emotions. But I don't think you should be so nasty towards those who have committed suicide. There's lives must've been real shit and they must've suffered a lot to end it all.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Yet you just did :p

I know what he's getting at. Suicide is very selfish, you're taking your own life from everyone else. You're also tearing up a lot of other peoples emotions. But I don't think you should be so nasty towards those who have committed suicide. There's lives must've been real shit and they must've suffered a lot to end it all.

alarumba you are taking your life from everyone else but it is people like that twat that make there lives shit to start with.I have members of my family with that attude and they help drive me to my attempt and the one thing i have learnt is to not let people like him into my life we are better off with out them

[Coyote]

alarumba you are taking your life from everyone else but it is people like that twat that make there lives shit to start with.I have members of my family with that attude and they help drive me to my attempt and the one thing i have learnt is to not let people like him into my life we are better off with out them
I know what you mean. During the process of hinting to my friends that I was really depressed and really wanted to die, they'd just laugh at me and say 'why don't you just kill yourself already?'

As much as I wanted them to suffer thinking 'shit, why did I say that, it's my fault' after I put a gun to my head in english class in front of everyone, I wised up and thought it was best not to

[jazbug5]

This is a great thread; I've been watching for the last couple of days, at a loss to know what to add. There have been some very brave posts here: most people show some real understanding, too. Unfortunately there are also some tossers out there who just have to come the big bloody macho rather than just stay quiet and learn.
I would just like to say that although it is often said that it is 'the ultimate selfish act', and although this is in some ways true, that is an issue of 'perspective' (as Kickingzebra so eloquently put it), as is the illness of depression. My father is the least selfish person I know, and yet he came extremely close to ending his life. He has Bipolar disorder, or manic depression, or whatever they're calling it this week. He felt so worthless that he genuinely felt he was ruining our lives- he thought we would be better off without him. He couldn't imagine that anyone would really care in the long term (since he was worthless) and he was sure my mum would find someone better that would be a better father to us. I am so glad he was stopped and taken to hospital.
Since then, he has been able to manage his illness far better and went on to help other people through Samaritans, saving at least two people's lives (by finding out where they were and rushing over in the middle of the night to break in). He has also been there for me when I was in a similar state.
Depression has been likened to many things; I sometimes see it as a tunnel where you can't see any light. But there is a way out, even if you can't see it straight away. The trick is to keep breathing, even if you can't quite bring yourself to stumble forward right away.
Right. Enough from me, I think..! Cheers all.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I know what you mean. During the process of hinting to my friends that I was really depressed and really wanted to die, they'd just laugh at me and say 'why don't you just kill yourself already?'

As much as I wanted them to suffer thinking 'shit, why did I say that, it's my fault' after I put a gun to my head in english class in front of everyone, I wised up and thought it was best not to

Just so you know they were not friends and they never will be when they can come out with shit like that.

[Scorpygirl]

Yet you just did :p

.

Sorry I over-reacted. Just heard about a guy from Tauranga that took paraquat and died in Waikato Hospital. I think the hospital and media over reacted big time!!! This guy was going to die from major organ failure.

[RiderInBlack]

Like it has been said before, if you have not personally felt what it is like ta feel like that, ya will never really understand. Have seen too many worthwhile people die due to lack of understanding. I feel sorry for those who don't understand, even more for those who do not wish to.

[SPman]

Well I must say that I've thought about suicide since Meeckal killed himself. It stopped at the thought though. The thing stopping me is, I'm just too fucking scared. I couldn't bring myself to do it. I'm too scared of what I will be leaving behind. I know that a lot of people care about me and I couldn't bear(sp?) to leave them all behind.

The fact you are thinking about it and not doing means you are just fucking badly depressed!
Once your mind decides to do it - the fear evaporates - it becomes a relief and, unless something searingly relevant happens, you progress cheerfully on to your own demise - even look forward to it!
This was told to me by a mate who fucked up the first attempt and at that point was relieved and glad he hadnt killed himself.......18mths later, he succeeded!

[Wellyman]

Everyone here on this site (yes even the ones that fu*k me off now and again) I will miss if something was ta happen to them. Everyone of you make KB what it is, something that is way more than just a web site about bikes:niceone:


Fucken well put RIB, Kiwibiker is just not about bikes, its about a family, a family of people with a passion and discussion about many diffrent other things.

Kiwibiker saved me from trying to kill myself during a low patch of my life when things were hard for me, thank you all my family.
Best Wishes,
Wellyman
(Dan)

[RiderInBlack]

The trick is to keep breathing, even if you can't quite bring yourself to stumble forward right away.Yep, often have Doreen from "Finding Nemo" reminding me ta "Just keep swimming":lol:

[hXc]

The fact you are thinking about it and not doing means you are just fucking depressed!

I never said I was anything more or less than that.


I was talking to my sister today -who has depression- and I told her about this thread. She said to me that Meeckal wouldn't want me to be angry at him or sad about what he did. He would want me to carry on with life and not get to the state that he was in. He did what he did because he didn't want his friends or family to see him get any worse.

[MadDuck]

Thanks Sudeep ...what an amazing thread.

I guess in my situation I felt the guilt for a long long time. My friend had a brain tumour which was operated on successfully so the medical profession told us! I offered my name up as a referee for him to get a gun licence. The police rang me and I said yeah hes an alright dude...cos he was. Ok a bit of a temper but .....little did I know the tumour was not completely gone and I kinda was responsible for him owning a firearm. Some Wellingtonians may remember.

Blame it on the tumour...blame it on the gun...blame it on the marriage split. The hardest thing is these people dont realise what effect they leave on the living. I offered him a safe haven...a bed...breakfast and somewhere to just chill out.

Its taken 4 years to realise that there was nothing I could have done to prevent this from happening.

I nearly fell into the same trap as my mum passed away a month after my friend. What doesnt hurt us makes us stronger.

[Motoracer]

I started reading the posts from the begining at 21:30 and it's now 23:44...

I read every single post made by everyone carefully, including the attached doco, posted by alarumba.

Like most people here, I don't know what more to add. All I can say is thank you for sharing your opinions and experiences with us. I know it takes a lot of guts to do that, and all of us here really appreciate your input! Not only that but you also have my respect for coming forward with your personal stories! It must not have been easy by any means...

Personally I have been through the ups and downs in life, like everyone else I guess. At times I have been depressed when times were hard but luckily I managed to come off it and be truely happy again. The whole of last year (2005) was pretty f*ckin messed up for me and at times I had wondered about it... I have to say though, I never really thought about going through suicide seriously. Too many people love and care about me and I could never do that to them... And I have a LOT to be damn greatfull for, as I know I am one of the luckiest people in the world!

There is just so much that I did not know and certain perspectives that I had never had about sucide previously. Like hXc, reading this thread pushes me further away from the idea of suicide even more than before. Not only that but, I feel as though I am better equiped with knowledge about suicide, to try and help people around me who are emotionally troubled and in-need of support.

BTW A lot of you have made some great contributions to this thread but I particularly like the statements made below, as far as helping people who suffer with depression goes.


I learnt that in dealing with people who have been serious about killing themselves, the only thing to do is to establish trust, and let them talk. We too easily solve peoples problems, when they don't neccesarily need to be solved, just shared, put into perspective. They aren't put into perspective by us saying, "well, look at what you have!" they are minimised by openly listening, not judging, and not telling, not fixing.

Thank you everyone! :grouphug:
Sudeep.

[slowpoke]

Well, there I was on nightshift out in the middle of the frikkin' Timor Sea feelin' a bit maudlin, too far from family, too far from beer, too far from gettin' outta here, too far from that sweeeeeet left hander up the road from home, when I stumbled across this thread. Faaaark, made me realise how lucky I am!!
Thanks for sharing people. I know a whole lot of KBers will slip right on by this lil' piece of reality, looking for a few laughs or relief from exactly the sort of pain that has been detailed here, but those that have dropped by I reckon will be glad they did.
Maybe a point that hasn't been made is that depression is not something you have any control over, it's not something you can just just volountarily snap out of, it's caused by an imbalance in brain biochemistry. For want of a better way of putting it your body is being drugged from within. How can you fight that?
For those people who don't understand the illness (and subsequent consequences) but continue to pass judgement, a bit of "shush" would be appreciated until you are in a better position to comment. As the old saying goes: you don't learn anything with your mouth open.

[MSTRS]

Kiwibiker saved me from trying to kill myself during a low patch of my life when things were hard for me, thank you all my family.

So often, we never know what effect the things we say have on others. A kind or supportive word may give someone cause to re-evaluate where they are in life, as easily as a harsh word. And we can never know whether the positive thing we said had a negative result, or vice versa. Those here that say "Harden up you softcock" may just have the opposite effect in that the recipient of that advice could view that as 'proof' of their 'uselessness' eh?
All that just goes to show that unless we are the suicidal one, we cannot know what is going through their minds. And if we are that person then we are not thinking with normal, rational processes (at least as we would 'normally' understand it).
On the other hand, we are not our brother's keeper.

[hXc]

There's a cool song that makes me feel a bit better by a New Zealand band, The Rabble. Not really well known but I like them. It's called "Carry On".

KB didn't want me to upload the file. Bugger!

[Stickchick]

I can totally understand where you are coming from T.I.E. I had a mate that was celebrating the millenuim new years with my family and friends and he even seemed so happy. Everybody remembers that when he left he said goodbye, not cya or catch ya but goodbye and giving everyone a kiss and a cuddle.

In the morning some friends went around for breakfast at his place like planned and found him hanging from the door frame with a dog collar around his neck. He just slung it over the door and closed it as hard as he could to wedge the collar and just relaxed. No one knows why he just didn't stand up and too this day I still don't understand how life could have been that hard for him that he just didn't stand up.

[mikey]

He had the rope up in the basement, was standing on the chair about to kick it away when he heard a voice saying 'Matt, I have great plans for you.' Since then he has been heavily involved in church and is now representing NZ in AFL. He is probably the deciding factor for me sticking around.

he was probably so far gone that psychosis saved him, sucks like that.


As much as I wanted them to suffer thinking 'shit, why did I say that, it's my fault' after I put a gun to my head in english class in front of everyone, I wised up and thought it was best not to

they wouldn "suffer" long, especially if you shoot them first

i had the nick "columbine kid" at school.......

an as to the rest of the thread,

suicide is selfish? i think its just as selfish, if not more, telling someone not to kill themselves. if they want to die for what ever reasons, keeping them here is selfish, saving yourself some grief for a few days/months/years......... everyone is fukn me me me.

someone wants to die, let them go

[Paul in NZ]

Ok... I know stuff all about suicide other that I have known a bunch of folks that were sucessful at it and a bunch of other folks that had every right to top themselves but fought for life until the last gasp. Buggered if I know what makes someone jump either way. Suicide is a terrible thing and as others have mentioned I don't think anyone knows why it happens or a sure fire way of stopping it.

What I do know is that every now and then, I'm susceptable to a visit from the old black dog myself. When I was young and fit I'd take myself off to the mountains with my rifle and pack and walk it out of myself. Great thing about deerstalking is you need to get out of your own head to have much chance and eventually, the execise and fresh air would bring me back. I knew it was time to go home once I got a bit frightened and worried about falling down a bluff or drowning or summat. These days I take the dog for a walk or go for a paddle. But thats just me aint it and I have never attempted to take my own life. (well I did swear at Vicki once which was pretty damn stupid)

One event in my life stood out for me.

I used to rent half a big old Villa in ChCh. This surfer / poet / musician / postie dude lived in the other half. Pretty cool guy and we developed a nodding relationship, moved onto howdy and even shared a few beers.

One friday night I was heading off into town for a bit of bad behaviour on the 750 Norton Cafe racer and as I crob crob crobed down the path he was wandering back up. Chatted a bit, see ya etc and off I went. Didn't see him the rest of the weekend but his phone was ringing a lot and his car was there. Thought he was staying with his girlfriend (a nice girl). Real late sunday night there was thr rat a tat tat that ONLY comes from the steely fists of the Police making a visit you don't wanna know about! After rapidly flushing the dunny I opened to the usual, who are you, you live here, that your dog etc when the softened up and told me they were worried about **** and might have to force an entry etc.. (Phew) No worries and off to bed i went 'cos I was wrecked after a weekend of debauchery.

Headed out in the am to work on my Tiger Cub and no one about, come home and bugger me! Cops everywhere, dog nutting off, detectives, ambo, uncle tom cobbly and all plus my dear old land lady that i got on real well with. (she cut me slack on the rent I mowed the lawns and fixed the roof etc - a real sweetie, probably 80+, she used to love riding on her husbands bike when she was young). Anyway, yup! Beaned himself with a shotty!

Police did a bloody fantastic job! Cleaned up as much as the could and in actual fact it was seeing that that really changed my opinion of the force! What a drama.

His family came and got his possessions. Christ! That was bloody drama I tell you. Helped as much as i could but I was only 19 myself! Jesus what the hell did I know about why? Eventually, I carried most of it out for them!

Poor old land lady was faced with redecoration because there was a bit of a mess even with the carpets pulled up! I gave her a hand. Pulled the venitian blinds down and a dirty great gop of crainial matter landed on my face but i had to pretend it didn't as she was already majorly upset!

You know, she died not long after that. Talked to her son (lawyer but not a bad guy) and he told me I was not to be kicked out because she was so grateful i helped her but also we bother reckoned the strain of it all finally did her in! 2 families deeply wounded by one event. Unfair!

Lifes not fair and every now and then, it truely sucks but a good walk costs nothing and as this thread has shown, all of us have been there to some degree or other. Talking about it, (while walking) helps! I'm NOT kidding!

As far as teenagers go. The gap between expectation and reality is growing every day. My generation had every expectation to be better off than our parents were because thats the way it was. No longer! Mass marketting and the media industry has rammed an unsustainable dream down these kids throats and frankly, most of them would be a lot better off taking the dog for a walk that watching 'drama' on TV...

[Edbear]

As the old saying goes: you don't learn anything with your mouth open.




How to catch flies...?

[scumdog]

Ok... Police did a bloody fantastic job! Cleaned up as much as the could and in actual fact it was seeing that that really changed my opinion of the force! What a drama.

Lifes not fair and every now and then, it truely sucks but a good walk costs nothing and as this thread has shown, all of us have been there to some degree or other. Talking about it, (while walking) helps! I'm NOT kidding!

...

Thanks for the + comment about the Police job (it ain't ALL tickets).
Sometimes looking at a good body on the slab, I (in my head) just want to pummel it and scream "you bastard, there is somebody somewhere in a wheelchair that would give anything to have a fit active body like that, you had one and you wasted it, you bastard".

But too true, deerstalking is so good for the soul, you don't NEED to shoot anything, just being 'out there' is enough, it clears the head..

Too much red wine tonight and a bad day 'at work'.

[hXc]

This isn't really hXc, his big sister in fact. He shared this thread with me, and bought up a lot for me too. Been on the recieving end of a few visits from the black dog myself. Tried a few things that I shouldn't have, and (gladly) came out the other end in one piece. When you are well, you wonder how you can do that, dont want to hurt Mum, Dad, my beautiful children, but when you are feeling low enough to think about ending it all, they dont even figure.

I have seen my brother and parents suffer so much over Meeckals death, and a friend lost her partner to suicide when she was 8 months pregnant with their 5th child. I know what it can do to those left behind, but you honestly dont think of their future without u at all. You need to get away from everything that hurts you, you are so far down in a big black hole and trying to get away from the emotions that are literally drowning you that you dont have the capacity (emotionally) to even consider how any one is going to feel.

AND it is hard to ask for help! I waited 3 hours in a drs surgery for a team to come and see me to assess my mental health. When you manage to pluck up the courage to turn to someone for help only to be told that they are too busy to help you, it just increases your feelings of low self worth. They need to cut out the fucking TV ads and employ more people to help directly. None of those ads did anything for me: They didnt make me feel better, they just took funding away from where it is needed.

Good to see people bringing it out into the open though!!

[RiderInBlack]

Yesterday I went to the funeral of a 20yr old son of a close friend of mine. He hung himself last Saturday.
It has been hard for all of us that had known him as his seemed an up-beat, go-getting Lad with lots of plans for what he wanted to do in life.
He had awesome friends and, from what they said at his funeral, he was always there for them.
He had had nice girl friends. The last one was overseas and could not make the funeral, so her sister read the letter she had wrote for the funeral (fu*ken sad I tell ya).
He had great parents and extended family.
He was respected and loved by his work mates.
He had just graduated in his chosen profession two weeks earlier and had already started working in that profession (and seemed ta be enjoying it, too).
He had bought a house and was planning a trip overseas later this year.

With so much to live for ya just had ta ask:

"SO WHAT HAPPEN? Why did he take his life, with so much to live for?"

We will never know as he didn't talk ta anyone about his struggle (yet he was their for others with theirs), even though there was so many out there that would have been there for him.

Sooo Sooo Sad.

PLEASE IF YA ARE FEELING THIS WAY, PLEASE TALK TA SOMEONE THAT LESSENS.

Doug (the Rider In Black)

[judecatmad]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right - I don't understand why any one would feel compelled to end it all. I just know how hard it was to help , not only my son, but 250-odd other year 10 students cope with their classmate's death. I know how helpless I felt and how hard it was to put aside my own anger towards this young person, (I had lost a grandson thru stillbirth only a couple of weeks before), to be there for these kids when they desperately needed someone. I know how angry and depressed hXc still gets over it and how he still wonders what he could have done if only he had known it was that bad for his mate.
Thats why I say, if you feel that way, find some help, talk to someone. Don't leave people behind confused, grieving and wondering for the rest of their lives, could they have done something..
It is still a tragic waste of huge potential and it saddens me so much

So much of the time tho you do feel as tho there's nobody in the world who WILL be affected by your death. It's the headspace you're in at the time. In fact, most times you feel everyone's lives will be BETTER for your absence.

It's hard to understand if you've never been in that headspace. It's dreadfully distorted thinking, but it feels so real at the time. It's a despair that is endless. There's nothing selfish about it at the time.

I'm lucky. I came through several very serious attempts (over 15 years) with no damage to my physical being. I've been well now for over 6 years and I'm glad I'm well. I had a lot of support from friends and my old employer. I also lost several friends after the last attempt (the only one people ever knew about). Not bothered about that - a friend who can't support you through the blackest time of your life is no friend at all in my book.

It is up to every depressed person to make sure they know they can talk about their issues, and to be fully confident that they won't be ridiculed or their confidence broken. Guys are especially guilty of not talking and not making their mates feel comfortable about talking.

Please everyone, if someone talks to you about this issue, you MUST listen. Even if you don't feel comfortable listening. YOU might be the only person they will talk to, for whatever reason. And listen right there and then - don't ask to talk later. Do it now. I had so many times when I was ready to talk, but there was nobody there or nobody with the time. Sometimes you are ready to talk just for a fleeting moment. It's catching that moment. You don't have to let their problems drag you down, but you must take time out to listen. It could literally be a life or death situation.

But if you have done everything you were able to (this could be 'nothing' if the person didn't express any suicidal ideation or show any outward signs of depression), there should be no guilt on your part. There's never a 'I could/should have done more' if you've done all that you were able. Some people, sad as it sounds, are just not able to be saved.

[Disco Dan]

I have thought about it before, ending my life. Not something that would get me anywhere or help me in anyway. Not to mention the distress friends and loved ones would go through (i hope).

Reached a point where I did not think I could screw my life up anymore than it was, I had run out of options and had no way of reaching the goals that I had set myself because of some bad decisions.

All it took was for me to speak to one person for me to change my mind, (actually a KB member) who to this day does not realise that they helped me. It may seem silly too some, but the brain is very complex and easily misled.

Thank you, to the un-named KB member who listened when I was at that point. Never again do I wish to go back to feeling that way. I now have a diferent perspective, new goals and above all.. hope.

I dont wish to indicate when this happened though. Was strange how no-one around me had any idea, friends/family etc, they still dont.

The thing about 'change' is that there is a 50% chance it will be a good change and 50% chance of it being a bad change. So I figure if I feel bad and down, 50% is pretty good odds to do something about it.

[scumdog]

Yesterday I went to the funeral of a 20yr old son of a close friend of mine. He hung himself last Saturday.
PLEASE IF YA ARE FEELING THIS WAY, PLEASE TALK TA SOMEONE THAT LESSENS.

Doug (the Rider In Black)

Listen to this man people, WHY oh why do they do this? (rhetorical question)

What a waste, there is ALWAYS an 'out', there IS a better option.

I too have been down the road of "If I ride my Sporty into the front of the next logging truck...." frame of mind but 'talked myself ut of it when I realised I would miss out on SO much (CB was one of those things).

Talk about it, discuss it, take time out but whatever you do, DON'T top yourself, you only have the one shot at life.

[kevfromcoro]

done an enduro.yrs ago.out of tokoroa..lost a mate in the bush....we all got lost.well the rescue team found him 12hrs latter,,,he turned up at my place. and said.to-morrow is another 24 hrs away..things will b a lot different then..and they were.2 morrow is a different day.....sure is.....very interesting thread ..this 1....do u think.bcause we are bikers ..we are a bit loose??.does this sort of thing happen in other forums?or mayebe we just speak from the heart..anyway all good stuff.we are here 4 a short time,and a long time dead

[chanceyy]

done an enduro.yrs ago.out of tokoroa..lost a mate in the bush....we all got lost.well the rescue team found him 12hrs latter,,,he turned up at my place. and said.to-morrow is another 24 hrs away..things will b a lot different then..and they were.2 morrow is a different day.....sure is.....very interesting thread ..this 1....do u think.bcause we are bikers ..we are a bit loose??.does this sort of thing happen in other forums?or mayebe we just speak from the heart..anyway all good stuff.we are here 4 a short time,and a long time dead

well said there mate..

well from all the threads posted we can say that it appears to be all ppl from all walks of life

that black hole can suck ppl into its depths & those who have fought it (& still fight it) you show incredible strength, & courage to face that particular demon, and come out on top .. kudos to you all ..

even though this is an old thread that has been brought to life again its such a part of some ppls lives that this thread will never die cause its a daily struggle for a lot of ppl

which is why this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=45864 is such a great way to bring it out in the open & take the opportunity to remember those who have lost the fight

[candor]

The majority of people statistically have had fleeting suicidal thoughts, some are just more vulnerable at particular times in life to get in their grip and follow through.

Have nursed (nearly) trillions of suicidal people. All came right, the majority within weeks, small numbers only within months.

Something like 98% meds will have great effect - the rest are treatable with a few shock treatments. Stress and/or depression are totally treatable if they are the cause, as is usual.

Some are suicidal thru valid guilt/shame too - trickier.

Only one didn't make it that I heard of and that was just cos he did a bolt from the ward during admitting procedures when he oughta been better monitored and unfortunately acted fast.

So I just have 2 things to say.

Everyone (no exceptions) can get back to feeling fine with support.

I only had one patient I thought had such a bad life and hopeless prognosis it might just be compassionate to give her a curtain cord and turn my back for 5 minutes - having been her siamese twin (special nurse) and life support machine therefore for months. But guess what - she came right and loves life now !

Advice 1 - if there is a prospect you could be heading for an attempt make a rule that you will get help. If no-one you know will deal with it ok then phone lifeline, samaritans, priest, mental health service or the hospital and ask for psyc emergency - or even go in to A and E and ask for help.

The rationale for getting help is that you may just be beyond helping yourself - don't risk it, and also realise
there is zero shame in getting help. No main is an Island.

Advice 2 - if not suicidal, realise that anyone you have dealings with just could be, especially the class clown. So guard your mouth. As your Mum might say - if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. And if you are the type to be sunny and instill hope -even to build people up by praising their good points, do it!

Also if you want to go the extra step practise the golden rule of 'do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself'. It can take only small things to knock some people over - people you'd never imagine were in turmoil. And small kindnesses can pick people up too.

People guilty of bad known or unknown things can also suicide. So if you know or suspect your family member or even someone else has done a big wrong can be best not to rub it in or torment them with hints or blackmail. But do try to get them to admit what they did to you or a priest or the cops or the victim as it will be less of a burden on them then.

Good words to hear to offer hope to a bastard are 'the incident's don't define you, you are more than that.' And 'thats pretty self centred to dwell on your guilt all the time when you could be doing something positive'.

And 'you have no right to judge yourself like that, any wrongs or achievements in your life for that matter you are not 100% responsible for, the credit must be shared with everyone who has had input in to moulding the individual you are today (or were then) and if you believe in it also with your god / higher power'.
- That is an AA type wisdom that I happen to believe in.

"He whakaaro pai ki nga tangata katoa" Keep thoughts pure toward others. And even better if you want to have every chance of preventing a suicide - ATTEND. When someone talks listen for hints, and don't ignore subtle clues - calmly check out any clues hey drop by offering a listening ear or response rather than ignoring or moving right along. If you don't click till later make a point of checking out if it was a problen hinted at or picked up by you.
"Are you alright" can produce some very interesting responses from people who appear to be running the country ok!

Personally I only support suicide for people in bad pain or no quality of life and no chance of it improving. Depression is not a diagnosis covered by that. Tho I really wish I could have helped my nana SUFFERING alzheimers with one of those pills they give soldiers when she asked me during some windows of clarity. Her life should have been cut 3 years short, right when she pleaded with me and said 'you wouldn't let a dog go thru this'. She was right, I still feel guilty I did not do it somehow. She deserved better.

[Big Dog]

I have to admit I have thought about it more than once and more than a little seriously.
For me the black dog only comes out to play when things are going really well.
Kind of, so this is as good as it gets? What a waste of time.
For me when things are going badly no matter how twisted and bitter I do not feel depressed because life can only get better and nothing I can do could possibly make it worse.

Back against the wall I HAVE to prove the knockers wrong.

Going well, the joke that seemed so funny last week might make me feel like doing something stupid this week.

When the black dog is taking me for a walk it could be something as small as praise not received when I felt it due can stew for days leaving me empty and angry.

The delicious irony most people perceive me as more fun when the dog is walking me and more stern when I am walking the dog.


I have struggled with depression in some form or other for most of my life. Part of me wants counceling and a medical label. Most of me would rather not have another fucking label on an already complicated life.

I never think to my self "I should kill my self".
I do sometimes think to myself "it would be easier if I removed the humans from my existence". After a few maudeline thoughts it seems the most efficient way to balance the equation is to remove me from it.
So far the big black dog has taken me many places I never wanted to go, but most of the time I take her places and she has yet to slip the collar.

It is not enough to be available and with an eye out for those getting pulled along by their own black dogs. We also need to think before we speak.

No one person here can be the person who caused another's suicide.
No one person here can feel responsible for the actions of someone who makes a choice of the own free will.
But as a community we owe it to ourselves to get rid of our incessant need to make others feel bad about themselves so that we can get ahead.

Here's to keeping our respective dogs on our respective leads and being willing to walk someone else's dog when they just can't.

[Deviant Esq]

I'm glad this thread got brought back up for me to read. Have spent the past 4 hours reading through it from start to finish (it's 3.10pm here in the UK, so no, I didn't say up all night!), and I have to say I'm very glad I've read it. In the past I've been scraping around looking for the bottom of the barrel depression wise. I know what it's like when the black dog is walking you (nice analogy BD), and it's not a pleasant feeling. I wasn't suicidal though, and I can see now I wasn't near the bottom of the barrel by a wide margin, though it sure felt like it at the time.

I'm not going to add too much more to this... just to say that I tackled my own depression without people helping me, and defeated it - I had noone to turn to by that stage. I still have my moments, we all do. But if anyone feels they'd like to talk about it, I'll lend you an ear, in total confidence. I've had some interesting experiences with depression and insights fighing my own, and I'll be happy to share those with you.

[chanceyy]

No one person here can be the person who caused another's suicide.
No one person here can feel responsible for the actions of someone who makes a choice of the own free will.
But as a community we owe it to ourselves to get rid of our incessant need to make others feel bad about themselves so that we can get ahead.



well said there ... you can only do as much as you can do ... nuffin more nuffin less

bling coming

[_Gina_]

But as a community we owe it to ourselves to get rid of our incessant need to make others feel bad about themselves so that we can get ahead.


Cant agree more.

[Grub]

hXc had a mate who committed suicide last year,at the age of 15.

Unfortunately the large majority of these type of suicides are when young men discover that their sexuality may be different than what is expected of them. And young men 14-19 are a very large suicide statistic.

They can't tell anyone. Friends are everything at that age and suddenly they discover that they may be different to the very people they value in their lives - so it stays hidden and it stays unresolved. I would think this young mans friends will not think kindly of me for even suggesting such an abboration - so how is it ever going to be fixed?

Even in this wonderful thread I have found mention of every other cause but this one. We just don't go there. Even the Ministry of Youth Affairs who are sponsor of a youth suicide study currently under way do not list this as a possible cause. So it keeps happening.

[Big Dog]

The big black dog has been in charge for a few hours now.
I feel a cloud of exhaustion but have an unwillingness to sleep.
I want to cry but have no tears.
I want to shout but have nothing to say.
I want to argue but have no point.

I feel fragmented, disoriented, internally in chaos, incongruous. Conflicted.
I feel hurt but have not been.
I feel a desire to make others suffer but have no ill will to others.
I feel alone amid other people.
I feel crowded on my own.

I have nothing to complain about.
I have food in my stomach.
I have a roof over my head.
I have clothes on my back.
I have more toys than I can play with at once.

I don't know why I am so unhappy.

The dog will tire in a few hours, or maybe a few days. Then I will be the master of the dog again, for now.

I don't want your pity. I write this for my catharsis and because I need a couple of things.
I need to share what I am feeling when I am feeling it because tomorrow the dog may be tired, when the dog is tired he is forgiven.
I need you to understand that the people you talk to everyday may not be as in control as they seem.
I need you to understand when you say negative things to people, when you shut them out of your lives you do damage with your words that cannot be undone with words.

Every day you see people treat others as less than themselves.
Every day you see people smile back with hurt in their eyes.

Have you been treated as less than you feel?
Have you smiled back when you felt the hurt?

Every day we dismiss others as fools, or their ideas foolish.
Were they fools, their ideas foolish?
Were they visionaries that looked outside the box for a solution we did not have?

Have you ever had the answer but no one will listen?
Do you ever refuse an answer because you feel you are better than the person offering it?

We were all the smallest, slowest, weakest and least educated once.

I like the analogy of the big black dog because when the power is lost to the dog it is sudden, a jerk. When power is regained it is because the dog has lost interest or burned through all the available fuel.
You can't out run the dog. Reigning him in (hardening up) makes squat down dig in and pull harder.

I don't want your pity, I want you to understand anybody you know could feel depressed.
You cannot identify them until it is too late.

You can all do one simple thing.

Do to others as you would like them to do to you.

[RiderInBlack]

Totally Awesome Big Dog. Hope ya "black Dog" tires soon, Dude:Punk:

[Edbear]

You can all do one simple thing.

Do to others as you would like them to do to you.


Matthew 7:12. Notable is that this is not a passive exhortation, in that we simply refrain from hurting others, but a positive command to take the initiative in looking for ways we can help make someone else's life a bit better, happier. To think about what we would want someone to do for us and then go out and do exactly that for someone else.

These days, people are becoming more self-centred, closing inwards due to the sheer pressure of time and stress, "looking out for number one" without the energy, inclination and time to be gregarious, generous and caring for more than close family, (and sometimes even them), or self.

Yet the benefits both to the recipient and the giver are immeasurable and the feelings of satisfaction and even self-worth, gained by an expression of compassion, of giving of oneself in time, energy or materially, are tangible and lift us all. We make time for such activities as the Westpac Trust ride, Toy Run, etc., yet we must never underestimate the importance and value of simply sending someone a message - phone call, txt, PM, email or whatever to just say you're thinking of them or to invite them around for a meal, whatever.

If one is suffering from a bout of depression and you can, try to do this yourself, it is very theraputic and affirms your value as a human being when the other person tells you they appreciate your thoughts. Not always possible, but worth considering.

Good post, BD.

[_Gina_]

Unfortunately the large majority of these type of suicides are when young men discover that their sexuality may be different than what is expected of them. And young men 14-19 are a very large suicide statistic.
They can't tell anyone. Friends are everything at that age and suddenly they discover that they may be different to the very people they value in their lives - so it stays hidden and it stays unresolved.
Was also waiting for this too, and suprised no one had mentioned it thus far.

Expected norms eh?
Who the fuck is normal? I certainly do not wish to identify with myself as normal, but I also do not wish to be pre judged by shallow insecure people.

Sorry to sound so agressive with such a sensitive subject, but it breaks my heart when I think about the unnecessary inner turmoil and loss of 'not-normal' male human beings as a result of being sexually aroused by something as sexually arousing as a stiff cock.
IMHO

[ManDownUnder]

But as a community we owe it to ourselves to get rid of our incessant need to make others feel bad about themselves so that we can get ahead.

Agreed... and somehow get rid of this baseless stigma that mental illness makes you less of a person/less valuable... whatever (I'm not sure I put that very well...)

It's bullshit at its finest, and annoys the living crap out of me. There is so much to live for. Everyone has their place and entitlement to enjoy live - they way they want to, and the way they are capable of.

I'm not going to end up a rocket scientist or brain surgeon - I don't have the drive or the IQ. One of the most ... "empowering" things I have ever done was to sit with a bunch of people (literally of that calibre) and just be "one of the guys". Truly inspiring.

To be accepted is one of the fundamental human needs. To be rejected (or "less acceptable") because of something beyond your control is wrong.

On a "value" basis... everyone (and I mean everyone) has something to give too. I'm not above learning from anyone. my 7 year old son is always coming home with interesting facts, and keen to show off new things he's done or learned. Do I shut him down becuae I've seen 95% of it before?

Hell no.


aaaarrrggggh rambling now... backing off...

[vifferman]

aaaarrrggggh rambling now... backing off...
Yeah. Stop rambling! :Pokey: