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wkid_one
21st March 2003, 12:12
Twice this week I have had to brave the early morning motorway traffic and being the impatient, need to be at the front, why am I following a tin coffin, this is why I bought a bike sort of person I am - I lane splitted the whole way from Manaukau to the bridge.

But, whilst I wait for the ticket from the mufti cop who was stuck in traffic, short on tickets and had just argued with his wife when he left - I thought I would ask what everyones opinion on this is - and whether anyone knows if a definitive ruling on lane splitting is as there is much speculation and hearsay??

Maybe Kiwibiker as a conglomerate of riders should approach the NZ Police for an opinion/ruling on this?

DS

 

 

SpankMe
21st March 2003, 12:38
All depends on what mood the cop is in. I have passed cops while lane splitting at the lights, But I do it slowly while passing cop cars and I haven’t been hassled.

I also think it depends on how fast you are lane splitting and how fast the traffic is moving. Was told by one motorbike cop that he doesn’t mind lane splitting on the motorway so long as the traffic is only doing about 30-40kph.

Coldkiwi
21st March 2003, 12:41
DEFINITIVE!? HAHAHAHAHAH

We should be so lucky.

As one who has taken on the southern motorway from Mt Wellington everyday for the last 3 years this is what I know.

I have been pulled twice for lane splitting.

1) By a cop (v reasonable and experienced) on a bike. Busted for 'overtaking on the left' (I was picking my gaps and using both lanes) and warned for not indicating. Fair one. I was also told that it was LEGAL to use the dead zone to the right of the fast lane and in fact was lots safer because cars don't pull in front of you. (a damn good idea, except for the odd bits of sharp debris.. I copped two slow punctures but nevermind)

2) By a cop for doing what I just described above. He was very unreceptive to the fact that I was still overtaking on the right hand side and indicating and issued the 150 fine for 'not driving within a lane'. prick. I disputed the fine with the complaints people based on what I was told previously (didn't have the original ticket and officers #) and got told to sod off. Pricks.

 

But what I am NOT sure of is this... If I ride within my lane, to the right hand side of a car without crossing the lane markers... does that still count as overtaking on the left? If not, so long as the indicators are being used then its a legal move... I hope!

My advice is to spot the bastards before they spot you. They are typically in the left most lane, so if you ride between lanes 1 and 2 you can see them earliest and take evasive action, most of them are pretty sleepy! They also have favoruite hiding spots, so be patient for a few seconds and sit in your lane till you know they're not hiding there.

 

 

wkid_one
21st March 2003, 13:10
I know I feel I have more control of the situation in slow moving traffic when I place myself between lanes - plus I am a truck load more visible (I don't need to worry about audible on the VTR)....

I can understand a ticket if you are lane splitting 30kph+ above that of the traffic - but I feel that provided the speed is reasonable - you are safer between lanes.  Plus - call it arrogant - that is why we have bikes.......

I have lane splitted for years without a single issue (he says touching every item of wood with 20 feet of the computer) - but I agree, it largely depends on whether the cop is hell bent on being a prick!

I wonder if you could argue that if you drove along the bumpity bumps (that is the technical term you know) in the middle of the lanes that you are technical not in a lane at all???  I must try that one....

There is no law in the road code in NZ that says that it is illegal to overtake on the left!  This to my knowledge is a british law not implemented in NZ......

OZ have recently passed lane splitting laws (and of course - wicked fines) and I wonder when NZ will follow suit?

 

MikeL
21st March 2003, 14:45
I too have been lane-slitting (how can you not??) and awaiting the inevitable day when my luck runs out. I have looked through the Road Code and it's not mentioned. Obviously they can get you for passing on the left, so wherever possible I make sure I'm as close as possible to the rh side of the left lane with my indicator on, so I can argue I was performing a legal overtaking manoeuvre. Whether it will work or not, who knows? As for riding along the rh strip of the motorway, I'm not too sure about either the legality of it (it's not a lane) or whether it's advisable considering all the crap that's lying about. What I do know from personal experience (having copped a $150 fine) is that riding along the lh emergency stopping strip is very risky, in spite of the fact that people do it all the time.
Overtaking on the left: I haven't checked recently, but I'm pretty sure that the Road Code provides for only a few specific instances where it's legal - overtaking a right turning vehicle for instance. I vaguely recall that one of those instances might be where the vehicle ahead has stopped - this might provide a loop-hole for lane-splitting when the traffic is stopped. Any people out there with legal training who could offer a professional opinion?

Redstar
21st March 2003, 15:38
:argh:

I have been done twice on the Northern between Northcote overpass and the onewa road on ramp southbound.
I was stopped in exactly the same place. I know that because the Cop was still there.

I wrote in the second time with a story but that was a waste of a stamp usual sod off reply.

It is an offence to pass on the left within a lane unless..
The trafic to your right is at a complete standstill(remember that one its your best defences) or the traffic is turning to the right(not likely on a motorway:p
:beer:
Now technically you can pass on the right of traffic provided you stay in the same lane:angry: I have a fine collection of wing mirrors:D

Have you noticed that the bus lane is narrow? thats because it was designed as a sholder not a high speed bus lane.

Because the buses push the lane traffic right there is not a lot of room on the Right of lane but heaps on the left of the next lane

So we bumble in and out depending on whos in the way.

:brick: You have to indicate 3 seconds before you change lanes or thats an offence so as you bumble you have to play with your switches clutch brakes and the temperature gauge getting hotter?

If you are told by Policeman one somthing is OK its a conspiracy to get you to commit an offence ignor it!

Finally the police have to fine three people an hour and they get little opportunity in gridlock traffic except for you my friend!

Go 200klm/hr between lanes and be done with it all
:done: :done: :done:

Coldkiwi
21st March 2003, 17:31
oh yeah... emergency lane is a BAD mother idea.

 

got a warning for that one.. it's a $600 fine if the guy's in a bad mood!!!!

Kwaka-Kid
21st March 2003, 18:26
whoever above stated that WHEN THE TRAFFIC IS COMPLETELY STOPPED you may go down left, is perfectly right. aswell as if you stay in ur lane and to the right of a car, then of course, its only logical that its an overtake, but yes, the second more then half your rubber flows into the lane to ur right, boom! just expect the ticket.

I ride in traffic, and i have no trouble lane splitting when its at a stand still. but ONLY then do i do it, i dont have the confidence in those random "look a tiny gap in a faster lane, ILL TAKE IT!" drivers.  because thats my leg stopping you from moving smoothly into that lane, funny that, in his big four-wheeld steam roller it just felt like a bump in the road. :)

but anyways. thats that, and yes there seems to be much trouble concerning getting the message on that lanesplitting law thing out, but this shell help more.

bluninja
23rd March 2003, 16:19
Funny one this, as lane splitting is legal in the UK (where I came from) as lane markings are 'advisory'. They just cop you for undue care and attention and dangerous driving.

Looked in the road code over here to pass my theory test and it said that you could overtake to the right of a vehicle within the same lane (and gave an example of a car overtaking inside a solid yellow) in the road code. However in the road code for bikes it says that you should never share a lane! Go figure. It's also legal to overtake in a lane to the left if there is 100m of clear space, so remember your rangefinders :D

TTFN

wkid_one
23rd March 2003, 19:00
I have written in to the Police and LTSA - interesting to see what their responses are....my research shows


There is no 'illegality' or passing to the left of a vehicle
There is nothing in the road code about sharing a lane.  Hence, you are able to pass a parking car to the left, PROVIDED you don't cross the centre line.
Police can only do you for dangerous driving - taking them to caught would be great.  There is NO statistical data supporting accidents caused during lane splitting - LTSA have already confirmed in Australia that their accident rates from lane spliting - 'didn't warrant attention let alone regulation' - yet the police decided to do so (revenue collection???? I think so)


If, or should I say when, I get done for lane splitting, my intention is to take this to court and have the Police demonstrate that this is 'dangerous', 'reckless' or 'illegal'.....to be proven as a dangerous practice they need to demonstrate a danger exists - in laymans terms - accidents/injury caused by doing it!

bluninja
23rd March 2003, 19:34
Wkid, a man of action. I'm sure we would all love to see the response that you get....amazing that a Kiwi bike mag appeared not too bothered about pursuing this item 1st quarter of 2002 when someone wrote in. Their advice not to do it around cops. BTW did you write snail mail, or email your questions ?

TTFN

 

wkid_one
23rd March 2003, 19:40
I faxed them, emailed them and have sent them by post as well!!  Buggered if they are not going to get it!!

The ball is their court - I have copies of everything - my excuse if caught - 'no one bothered to tell me if it was illegal - therefore I figured no news was good news'  If they want to ticket me for it - then they can damn well tell me if it illegal first and then I can choose to break the law - but this he said she said bullshi* is not on..

 

What?
24th March 2003, 06:04
'On Ya Wkid_One. Any chance of you posting the replies you got? :D

Kwaka-Kid
24th March 2003, 07:27
yeah id be keen to hear them too.

wkid_one
24th March 2003, 19:47
First and foremost - I am talking about the LTSA and Police - so one piece of advice - DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATHE.....but I will post any and all responses I get!!!!

In the meantime - happy lane splitting - mwaaaa ha ha

 

aff-man
24th March 2003, 22:09
hmmmmm well i don't like to lane split because of the whole poor student fine thing but the other day was just waiting in line by the lights and a guy in a minivan told me i should go down the middle to the front??? Something to think about most of the public don't mind at all. But if you see a black familia with a yellow strip watch out it's one of my mates who goes out of his way to get in the way of bikes going down the middle even when the traffic is stopped!!!! He is a bit of a you know what :angry: :argh:  hmmmm the legal definitions would be interesting though.

Kwaka-Kid
24th March 2003, 22:18
nah mate thats all legal, when traffic is STATIONARY you may pass on left, which means u got both sides of cars, so yeah i always do it then.  Coming home from work thru avondale, @ every red light, if im 5 cars back, or 50cars back, illget to front down middle. however if the traffic starts moving ahead, just grab urself a spot in line, because then its illegal.

Yes the other day i had some wanker in a f***ed out old van, purposely looking in his mirrors edge into the way, luckily i was a wee bit away, and i actually did just get thru the gap, and he laughed as i slowly went passed. made me so mad to think such wankers existed.  dumbest thing was he left his drivers window fully down, if the window wasnt so high im sure it would have been a good enuf excuse to throw the left fist in there whilst going passed. stoopid wanker.

so tell ya mate in the familiar with the yellow strip. if he trys doing that im gunna go right thru, and put a nice big 2nd yellow strip+scratch down the side of his car with my yellow rubber things poking out of fairing.

Coldkiwi
25th March 2003, 12:52
it's all about observation guys.

if the car in front is in your way in the lane, go round the other way.

if you think that will get you a fine, look for the cops first. my sanity in the mornings depends on permament lane splitting on the motorway (with indicator and headlight on full) so just do it in a safe manner and sit it out if you see piggy.

BTW... one of the things that should be mentioned is the value in being courteous to drivers you pass. WHY? Because if they have had a bad morning and then you tear arse past in an arrogant moode, they WILL dial *555 and complain about you weaving through the traffic and get the cops on the lookout for you. Drivers like to see the indicators at least, even if it may be on the wrong side!

 

BigB
25th March 2003, 13:27
I normally don't bother lane splitting as the times I'm on the motorway (6.45am & 4.00pm) I don't have to, unless there's a problem.

But I have been pulled up for passing down the right side of traffic on the ellerslie on ramp. The traffic was stopped so I just went down the side and it wasn't till I was almost at the bottom I saw the cop sitting on the side of the motorway.

He pulled me over and asked what my excuse was?? said I didn't have one, was just doing it because I could. This seemed to suprise him, he then did the usual checks WOT/Reg and licence found nothing wrong and said he could fine me $80, but not to do it again as it pissed car drivers off and let me go.;)

So not all cops are bad

MikeL
25th March 2003, 13:52
I've had a look through the Road Code and to my surprise found that pissing off car drivers is not a ticketable offence. At least not in my edition (last year). Perhaps things have changed since then.

Coldkiwi
25th March 2003, 17:33
no it's not, that's right... but doing what I do (driving between cars making the most of any gap that presents itself) is!! I just don't want any disgruntled drivers passing their bad vibes on to a grumpy cop down the road and making my life difficult!

aff-man
25th March 2003, 22:02
sometimes I don't get it why does it piss off car drivers so much. I mean sure to see someone shooting off to work or whatever while you are sitting still is frustrating, but come on bikes like cars have advantages and disadvantages. On bikes wet weather is not really all that nice and in cars traffic is the pits. So why is it that some car drivers can accept that and some can't????????:confused: :confused:

big_bry
25th March 2003, 23:55
I seem to remember some red baron radio adverts talking about "now you can ride in bus lanes" ?!?!

Which lanes do they mean ?  Is it just the inner city ones e.g. Franshaw st ?

b.

 

Kwaka-Kid
26th March 2003, 05:15
we already discussed this :)

it was a by-law made by auckland city council, so i take it its all ACC's bus lanes.

Coldkiwi
26th March 2003, 17:48
yup, all council lanes but no motorways.

You want to know why it pisses motorists off? Try commuting in a car into the city and home again 5 days a week at 8am! They also don't like 'dangerous' motorcyclists who can stop and turn between cars safely a hell of a lot faster than they can .. "because it's quicker than me , it must be dangerous".

We have freedom they don't. Everything other reason is secondary.

 

Kwaka-Kid
26th March 2003, 22:47
Originally posted by Coldkiwi
They also don't like 'dangerous' motorcyclists who can stop and turn between cars safely a hell of a lot faster than they can .. "because it's quicker than me , it must be dangerous". 
 

 

EXACTLY! yet tailgating that Toyota Starlet in their big 4x4 UAV -Urban Assault Vechile, is not dangerous, oh no, because its so big and strong, it must brake well and handle well too, and they dont get hurt in accidents.

 

pfft :/

wkid_one
27th March 2003, 20:29
No response yet!!! funny that...

My advice is just to ride safe.  A cop will have a hard job proving dangerous driving due to lane splitting or cutting lanes (plus he has to catch up with you - HANG ON I'M OFF!)

Remember you can accelarate shit loads quicker than a car - unless a policeman is driving a MacLaren - twist the grip!!!  (250 riders - drop about 9 gears first and make sure you changed the rubber band!!!)

Right, enuf social irresponsibility

Seriously.....there is no statistic information at ACC that supports lane splitting as a dangerous offence - I know I called there Actuary on Tuesday, and once I convinced the person I worked for ACC they told me everything!  But as they pointed out, there may very well be accidents from lane splitting - but just not recorded as it.

There is NO law against lane splitting in NZ - most cops are only able to ticket you for unsafe or illegal lane changes.  Passing on the left in NZ is a myth - you are able to to my knowledge on the motorway provided there is 'sufficient room'.  This is pertinant as the slow lane is commonly the middle lane on a 3 lane system, and the far left left is the merging traffic and departing traffic lane.

Most Policemen in NZ will turn a blind eye to it provided you are not being an idiot - the accepted norm overseas (and in NZ) is to travel no more than 20kph faster than the traffic and not to lane split if the traffic is travelling faster than 40kph - then you should be in your own lane space.

I am still waiting on our Constabulary to return my email/fax and letter!

 

Hoon
28th March 2003, 15:05
I've asked a cop mate of mine many questions regarding motorbikes - Hes a Sergeant and responsible for 12 cops under him.

He told me the following about lane splitting or "Separating traffic" as they call it.

- Motorcyclists are allowed to split lanes if the traffic on both sides is stationary.

- You can use all bus lanes except those on Motorways.

- Other than that, only Emergency Services are allowed to seperate traffic.

He didn't believe there was another speed limit when splitting traffic but suggested I "don't go too fast"

I ride to from Avondale to AKL CBD everyday and back during peak traffic and I split lanes all the time.  I must admit that I don't always wait for traffic to stop before weaving up the middle, nor do I always pull back in once the traffic starts moving again.

Also at every set of lights I will (space permitting) slip between the lanes up to the front of the queue and pull in front of the lead car.  As compensation I'll usually reward the driver with a nice wheelie for his co-operation :)

From experience I've found that drivers are more "accepting" if you have a nice big mean looking bike!

Kwaka-Kid
28th March 2003, 20:51
so itake it the drivers dont accept you?

 

:P

750Y
14th April 2003, 14:35
who is them maniac on the little bike that rides up the right hand verge by onehunga/penrose in the mornings?

Coldkiwi
15th April 2003, 12:26
I would be the maniac on the big slime green bike that goes up the LEFT hand side of the on ramp before stopping to look for pigs at the top :D

(they've got at least 4 different spots they sit in around there)

I've seen a BIG assed guy on a ludicrously narrow FZX 250 (I think) that does all sorts of random (not overly safe I don't think either) stuff so maybe it was him

750Y
15th April 2003, 13:08
not You coldy there's another maniac with skater shoes & a back pack. man he is scary to watch. Soon as he sees You in his rear view mirror he is off down the middle. no shit he suddenly speeds right up & starts ducking in/out.
it's good entertainment but I wouldn't want to see him come to grief.

Rajol
12th March 2012, 19:47
Is lane splitting Illegal???

orangeback
12th March 2012, 21:35
great thread revival after 9 years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5Bci82yjyA

DrunkenMistake
12th March 2012, 21:57
http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/holy-thread-revival-batman.jpg


To my understanding so long as you do it at safe speeds and are responsible while doing it, and go from the left lane to the centre lane then yes,
As I believe the loop hole is something along the lines of, slow moving or stopped vehicles are recognised as parked , therefore you can over take a parked vehicle on the right...

or something along those lines, we dont get alot of traffic down here for splitting to really be useful and the lanes are pretty close together (in slow moving traffic kind of sense) but I usually split to the front of the que if its a red light at a multi-laned road so long as its all straight traffic sort of thing,
I have done it past a police car and they didnt seem to mind.

Gremlin
12th March 2012, 22:15
Is lane splitting Illegal???
To save duplicating, Rajol, read this thread: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/21150-Lane-splitting-filtering-the-legal-and-commonsense-answers

PrincessBandit
13th March 2012, 05:45
To save duplicating, Rajol, read this thread: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/21150-Lane-splitting-filtering-the-legal-and-commonsense-answers

Sensible answer Gremlin.

There's always gonna be new members who ask about stuff which is old on here but don't necessarily know how to use the search function. Personally I find the search thingy on here gives so-so results (either nothing 'cause you didn't use the exact words, or waaaaaay too many posts to be bothered trawling through).
Pointing someone in the right direction is best.

gatch
15th March 2012, 09:56
I always do it in the city now.

Have been past a few cops, I'm not sure on their personal perspective on it but they have never pulled me up on it yet.

TicTacz
5th July 2012, 06:52
Same opinion offered by family cops, anything under 30km they will tend not to care.

But at the end of the day it's illegal unless stand still.

Choose the times rightly and you will be fine.


All depends on what mood the cop is in. I have passed cops while lane splitting at the lights, But I do it slowly while passing cop cars and I haven’t been hassled.

I also think it depends on how fast you are lane splitting and how fast the traffic is moving. Was told by one motorbike cop that he doesn’t mind lane splitting on the motorway so long as the traffic is only doing about 30-40kph.

Maki
23rd August 2012, 04:34
If your lane splitting, how can the cop catch you? Fly?

Gremlin
23rd August 2012, 11:40
See this thread for discussion: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/21150-Lane-splitting-filtering-the-legal-and-commonsense-answers