Water for fuel!!!

[slimjim]

christ hope that bugger on tv isn't full of shit, cause i'll:puke: on the pick!!
bloody price of gas going up ,we'll need to use something other than oil,and the way globeable warming is happening,there's going to be heaps of spare water:bye:

[Pwalo]

Don't worry mate. No one knows how much oil there is available in the world, let alone how much is left. (And can you tell me how oil is really produced in the ground?).

Global warming? Yes and no. Very much depends on who you want to believe, but most research at this stage seems to be on computer modelling. We still can't predict the weather for a week ahead, but we can for a century or so?

At this stage I think I'll just worry about getting the boys through their education and paying the food bills. (Oh and the petrol!!).

[Colapop]

Water as fuel has been around for ages. It's seperating the oxygen and hydrogen that's the issue. Best bet is to lock up the local takeaway bar into a deal that lets you get their frying oil off them. Convert it into biodiesel and your away. Or make a still and brew up some methanol/ethanol (Not sure whisch is which - oops sorry been dsrinking a bit of it!)

[slimjim]

Water as fuel has been around for ages. It's seperating the oxygen and hydrogen that's the issue. Best bet is to lock up the local takeaway bar into a deal that lets you get their frying oil off them. Convert it into biodiesel and your away. Or make a still and brew up some methanol/ethanol (Not sure whisch is which - oops sorry been dsrinking a bit of it!)
yea bro, but then the bloody goverment want taxes off it:drinkup:

[Hitcher]

I live by the adage that if something sounds too good to be true, then it generally is. Water used to power internal combustion engines through the addition of a device that looks like a baked bean tin definitely meets this criterion.

And as for "biofuels", don't get me started. I am appalled that the New Zealand Government has been suckered into this by the hand-knitted hemp underwear-wearing tree huggers.

[The Pastor]

Im not up with the play on biofuels or water power or what not - but if an engine is made to run on a fuel that is very abundent (will never happen as long as the oil companys run the economy) im all for that, why? NO MORE TAX! If I could run my bike on water (i.e rain) I would do it just to spite the government. If you add up all the tax you pay its between 40-80% of your income, its nuts.

[slimjim]

yup agree there,shit i was given the old shaving leather strap, only did it once, learnt that way quick,haha,, but my nine old say's dad you could tell on your mum,, O IF SHE KNEW IF ONLY I COULD,,Haha, get a belt from DAD for telling tales,,

[Finn]

Don't worry mate. No one knows how much oil there is available in the world, let alone how much is left. (And can you tell me how oil is really produced in the ground?).

Global warming? Yes and no. Very much depends on who you want to believe, but most research at this stage seems to be on computer modelling. We still can't predict the weather for a week ahead, but we can for a century or so?

At this stage I think I'll just worry about getting the boys through their education and paying the food bills. (Oh and the petrol!!).

Top of the class for you. Good to meet a thinking person on KB.

I'm a facts person myself. When I see something, I believe it. Until then it's all speculation. The petrol price is a worry for inflation but it's not slowing down the sales of V8 SUV's. Although, to keep my balance sheet looking good I'll have to fire someone to pay for the increase in fuel costs for the company. I'm just waiting for someone to look at me funny today.

[ManDownUnder]

And as for "biofuels", don't get me started. I am appalled that the New Zealand Government has been suckered into this by the hand-knitted hemp underwear-wearing tree huggers.

Hey hitch - tell you what - get in touch in 6 months on this one...ONE of us will be able to say "I told you so"... I'm lookin' forward to 60c/litre myself...

[Finn]

I live by the adage that if something sounds too good to be true, then it generally is. Water used to power internal combustion engines through the addition of a device that looks like a baked bean tin definitely meets this criterion.

And as for "biofuels", don't get me started. I am appalled that the New Zealand Government has been suckered into this by the hand-knitted hemp underwear-wearing tree huggers.

Regarding your first statement, they were saying that about the horseless carriage and moving pictures too. There was also a time when people said "Liberachi gay? NEVER!!!"

As for your second statement, couldn't agree more.

I'm beginning to warm to you Bitcher.

[ManDownUnder]

Im not up with the play on biofuels or water power or what not - but if an engine is made to run on a fuel that is very abundent (will never happen as long as the oil companys run the economy) im all for that, why? NO MORE TAX!

Only one problem with the water for fuel thing - in it's simplest form that argument go like this.

You can't create or destroy energy
You use energy to slpit the water (a)
You get energy back from burning the gases from the split water (b - which in a perfect system = a).
You use energy to move the car
You lose energy as heat from the car

So even if you got 100% of the energy back from the split water, you have to use it all again to split the next lot. None left to push or heat...

DOH!

So the question THEN becomes - where does the extra energy come from?

Lots of answers to that one - this is just a starter for 10...

[Finn]

Hey hitch - tell you what - get in touch in 6 months on this one...ONE of us will be able to say "I told you so"... I'm lookin' forward to 60c/litre myself...

You can just hear the hands rubbing together with glee at Metrowater...

[ManDownUnder]

I'm beginning to warm to you Bitcher.

So if you and Hitch ever had kids you could call the Finnisher... or somethin'?

[ManDownUnder]

You can just hear the hands rubbing together with glee at Metrowater...

I'm talking about biofuels. I have no expectations of water powered anything... ever... (as per a previous post)

[Finn]

So if you and Hitch ever had kids you could call the Finnisher... or somethin'?

Would never happen. Hitcher went through menopause years ago.

[Finn]

I'm talking about biofuels. I have no expectations of water powered anything... ever... (as per a previous post)

Doesn't water power Huntly? Gotcha!

[Motu]

I'm not too sure if I want my Pajero running on lard...surely gee is much better? I can get gee from Mr Patel for a very good price....at least he says it's a good price....he's a very polite man,you don't think he's trying to slip one past me do you??

[ManDownUnder]

Doesn't water power Huntly? Gotcha!

LOL - touche - I'll give you that (gotta admit the scientific answer was being formulated but then - who wants to be dweeb??)

[ManDownUnder]

I'm not too sure if I want my Pajero running on lard...surely gee is much better? I can get gee from Mr Patel for a very good price....at least he says it's a good price....he's a very polite man,you don't think he's trying to slip one past me do you??

If you drank metled Gee then peed it out- would the be Gee Wizz?

[Colapop]

It's Ghee - basically rendered butter fat. And it's f*ckin' expensive compared to horses arses!

[Colapop]

Why is there something 'wrong' with biofuel ie biodiesel? Is it too hard to produce? Is it too costly? What the issues with it? On the face of it, it sounds like a viable alternative - at least for blending.

[Ixion]

May one point out that petrol and diesel are also biofuels. They are made from rotten trees and such. They are also replaceable. Just needs a bit of patience, the process is replicable. Just takes time, like cheese.

[Bangbug]

I'd rather follow a biofuel diesel than a regular diesel (yes fuel is organic, you know what im saying), instead you can smell mexican food or shark and taties instead of COUGH COUGH F**KING DIESEL! of course i am talking about being in a car, i follow nothing on the bike, lol.
But i think ethanol would be great for nz. just like brazil. im sure they have lots of sporty hot chicks playing on the beach cuz they have ethanol for fuel, nothing to do with anything else, cause and effect i say.
who are you?
F**K of out of it,
YOU DON"T KNOW!
Uh erm........
But NZ govt loves its taxes, democracy doesn't work, the sun doesn't shine it just reflects my greatness, you're all sick, i once new a guy who had a rover, he bent over, now hes buried in the ground like a dead chicken and the starch from his collar is making him itch!!!!!!
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

[Pixie]

Water as fuel has been around for ages. It's seperating the oxygen and hydrogen that's the issue. Best bet is to lock up the local takeaway bar into a deal that lets you get their frying oil off them. Convert it into biodiesel and your away. Or make a still and brew up some methanol/ethanol (Not sure whisch is which - oops sorry been dsrinking a bit of it!)
The stupid ,ignorant, arse media,because of their "arts degrees",don't know science from their arses.
Water is never a fuel.It is a combustion product.
Hydrogen can be used as a fuel,if extracted from water in a process that uses more energy than it provides.

Btw When everyones driving a vehicle that "only produces water vapour in it's exhaust",remember that water vapour is a green house gas.

[oldrider]

Doesn't water power Huntly? Gotcha!
No it doesn't, the fossel fuel burned to converter water to steam does! Gotcha back! :blip: lol.

[Pixie]

Doesn't water power Huntly? Gotcha!
WTF??

Heard of coal and gas?

[Fishy]

I'm just waiting for someone to look at me funny today.
:nya:

10 charcters

[Finn]

WTF??

Heard of coal and gas?

WTF, WTF?

Herd of cows too.

[Pixie]

I love the way everytime someone in NZ runs his diesel on vege oil, the media wankers react like this is news.
More than five years ago,a dodge van was driven around the world on Macdonald's used cooking oil.

And why does this guy reckon the "conversion" will cost $2500?
I've read accounts of people putting used cooking oil,once the potato bits are filtered out, straight into unmodified diesels.

[Finn]

:nya:

10 charcters

THAT'S IT!!! YOU ARE SO FIRED!!!

[Finn]

No it doesn't, the fossel fuel burned to converter water to steam does! Gotcha back! :blip: lol.

I'll re-phrase then. Hydro power.

Who the hell is this Bangbum guy? His posts make less sense than mine.

[Fishy]

THAT'S IT!!! YOU ARE SO FIRED!!!

Damn....sorry Mr Trump.

Hey hang on.... I don't work for you :finger:

But can I please have a job? :blip:

[Pixie]

I'll re-phrase then. Hydro power.

Who the hell is this Bangbum guy? His posts make less sense than mine.
Ha Ha
Hydro power stations are powered by the sun.
As are fossil fuel powered devices,for that matter.

[Finn]

Damn....sorry Mr Trump.

Hey hang on.... I don't work for you :finger:

But can I please have a job? :blip:

Actually I've got just the job for you sonny. I need a bike bitch. Someone to keep my 4 bikes well groomed, serviced, maintained and warmed up before each ride. You will need to be available 24/7 and have the use of my car to come and pick me up on a ride $100k per annum but you must have an clean riding history. No fines, bins....

[kickingzebra]

Actually I've got just the job for you sonny. I need a bike bitch. Someone to keep my 4 bikes well groomed, serviced, maintained and warmed up before each ride. You will need to be available 24/7 and have the use of my car to come and pick me up on a ride $100k per annum but you must have an clean riding history. No fines, bins....

I'll do it, shit, i don't even have a rubbish bin!! But my wife does think I'm fine, don't hold that against me!!

[Fishy]

Actually I've got just the job for you sonny. I need a bike bitch. Someone to keep my 4 bikes well groomed, serviced, maintained and warmed up before each ride. You will need to be available 24/7 and have the use of my car to come and pick me up on a ride $100k per annum.

Sorry mate my monitor isn't displaying the last 11 words of your post. I'm very interested so far...

[Pixie]

"Where's ya bin?"
"On holiday,Boss."
"No, Where's ya wheely bin?"
"I wheely bin in jail,Boss."

[Motu]

Diesels are the ultimate for running on other fuel sources,they'll run on anything - even their own waste products.A lot of the big diesels burn their own lubricating oil - Cummins engines on line haul duties monitor their lubricating oil,and at regular intervals send oil to the fuel tank,then replenish from an onboard oil tank.Going back over 25 years ago to the last fuel crisis rape seed (flax) oil was seen as the ideal alternative diesel fuel....and strangely it was found BP held all the countries rape seed stock - they are well prepard.But New Zealand's diodiesel is going to use lard...extracted from the countries over supply of lard arse office workers.

[ManDownUnder]

New Zealand's diodiesel is going to use lard...extracted from the countries over supply of lard arse office workers.

SWEET - so I get cheap fuel, it's good for the environment and I lose weight???

(will it hurt?)

[kickingzebra]

Ooh, ooh, mee!! Stick the lipo needle out of my arse, and into the fuel tank.
Methane injection on occasion, with my bio diesel... Apparently works wonders for power and economy...

My old surf was dual fuel diesel... Burnt more oil than diesel half the time... Bloody thing had some grunt though... at least, compared to a nifty fifty.

Funny thing was, as it started burning heaps of oil, it actually felt like it gained power!

[Edbear]

There's a van in France running on compressed air. It is basically a 2cyl diesel engine and works by injecting compressed air into the cylinders through the injectors and the temp difference between the super cold compressed air and the atmospheric incoming air causes the explosion. Sounds just like a diesel, and costs peanuts to recharge the cylinders. Downsides are the size and weight of the four cylinders and the limited range. I was fascinated that this could actually work, though. Bio-diesel is big biz in the USA, supported by he likes of Willie Nelson et al. (Don't you dare ask who he is!)
Think I'll look up whatever happened to a guy called Smokey Yunick in the States. BAck in the late 60's, early 70's he was doing amazing things with Buick V6's and compound turbochargeing getting impressive fuel economy. Talked of engines made of Silicon Carbide which could run at superheated temperatures, etc. Anyone else heard of him?

[kickingzebra]

Not heard of him... Someone I knew, knew someone... This guy had a nissan bluebird with a fuel preheater in it, reckoned he got 80 MPG out of it. Never saw the vehicle, but the principle sounds about right, pre vapourise the fuel/ heat it so it combusts more immediately, and mists better in the injector...

May be a crock of shizzle nizzle though

[OMG]

Only one problem with the water for fuel thing - in it's simplest form that argument go like this.

You can't create or destroy energy
You use energy to slpit the water (a)
You get energy back from burning the gases from the split water (b - which in a perfect system = a).
You use energy to move the car
You lose energy as heat from the car

So even if you got 100% of the energy back from the split water, you have to use it all again to split the next lot. None left to push or heat...

DOH!

So the question THEN becomes - where does the extra energy come from?

Lots of answers to that one - this is just a starter for 10...
E=MC^2, so there is a fark load of energy in each molecule, i.e. a = fark loads of energy. You just need a low temperature fusion reactor rather than burning the farken stuff (or a more efficient way of splitting the molecule).

[kickingzebra]

Of course the easy way is to use "free" power from nuclear reactor to generate electricity, for hydrolysis, hydrogen should become relatively cheap, and is of course in bountiful supply, then we are away laughing.

Nuclear technology is the key. If only we spent as much effort trying to harness it in a safer less wasteful manner, as we do bitching about the yanks.

Would solve a multitude of our problems.

[ManDownUnder]

E=MC^2, so there is a fark load of energy in each molecule, i.e. a = fark loads of energy. You just need a low temperature fusion reactor rather than burning the farken stuff (or a more efficient way of splitting the molecule).

That'd be heavy water you have in mind (H2O2) and I ain't drinkin' it!

It's hard to buy too, and Metrowater are out of it - go figure

[OMG]

That'd be heavy water you have in mind (H2O2) and I ain't drinkin' it!

It's hard to buy too, and Metrowater are out of it - go figure
Bastards, sounds like a conspiracy to me

[Hitcher]

I'm not too sure if I want my Pajero running on lard...
As a mechanisation student at Massey University about 30 years ago we had a tractor that ran just fine on tallow. A bit more smoke and a funnier smell than diesel. And you had to remember to start up and shut down on tallow, otherwise the tallow would set in fuel lines, pumps and injectors. We had an electric heater under the tallow tank to keep it liquid. Lovely.

Problem 1: There is not enough tallow to power every diesel engine in New Zealand. It's the same go for vegetable fats and oils.

Problem 2: Growing crops for biofuels requires a significant -- and I mean HUGE -- area of new land to be planted for crops. This will inevitably require the cultivation of large amounts of marginal land and also put pressure of scarce water supplies for irrigation. New Zealand and the world generally needs more marginal land to be retired from farming, rather than new areas added.

Problem 3. Manufacturing biofuels requires large amounts of energy -- to plant, harvest, transport and process the plant materials. For some fuels e.g. rape oil, more energy is required to manufacture the fuel than is delivered by the fuel. Very clever.

[thehollowmen]

What we need is a catalyst that takes nitrogen and carbon dioxide from the air, and a bit of our water fuel is added to the mix so we afixe a nitrogen, a carbon and a hydrogen together... and leaves pure oxygen and this "green organic waste gas" for us to breathe...

Someone really needs to propose that to the greens :-D


for those of you who don't know, HCN is hydrogen cyanide

[thehollowmen]

That'd be heavy water you have in mind (H2O2) and I ain't drinkin' it!

It's hard to buy too, and Metrowater are out of it - go figure

H2O2 isn't heavy water.
Heavy water is water where a hydrogen has an extra neutron, hence it is heavier. There is a little bit of this hydrogen present in all the water we drink and it is perfectly safe.

H2O2 on the other hand is hydrogen peroxide.

[Colapop]

Sorry mate my monitor isn't displaying the last 11 words of your post. I'm very interested so far...
How did ya know there were 11 more words in his post?

Is heavy water actually heavier than water? I mean hydrogen doesn't weigh that much does it?

If there is heavy water, is there heavy air?

Does the light in the fridge really go out when you close the door? If it does then how does it get out - the door is closed...

That's all for now...

[nodrog]

I'd rather follow a biofuel diesel than a regular diesel (yes fuel is organic, you know what im saying), instead you can smell mexican food or shark and taties instead of COUGH COUGH F**KING DIESEL! of course i am talking about being in a car, i follow nothing on the bike, lol.
But i think ethanol would be great for nz. just like brazil. im sure they have lots of sporty hot chicks playing on the beach cuz they have ethanol for fuel, nothing to do with anything else, cause and effect i say.
who are you?
F**K of out of it,
YOU DON"T KNOW!
Uh erm........
But NZ govt loves its taxes, democracy doesn't work, the sun doesn't shine it just reflects my greatness, you're all sick, i once new a guy who had a rover, he bent over, now hes buried in the ground like a dead chicken and the starch from his collar is making him itch!!!!!!
Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!


i'll have what hes having! :doobey:

[slimjim]

yup even harder to relight your smoke if you happen to drop it in the tank

[Winston001]

Problem 3. Manufacturing biofuels requires large amounts of energy -- to plant, harvest, transport and process the plant materials. For some fuels e.g. rape oil, more energy is required to manufacture the fuel than is delivered by the fuel. Very clever.

To be fair, this point is debateable now. There are studies which show 120% energy from bio-fuel so there is a 20% gain. Doesn't really compare with the 1500% gain from drilling for oil.

Brazil manages a methanol fuel system but there are tax subsidies and all sorts of land use problems.

Low temp fusion would be nice but - it doesn't exist yet. Even atomic bombs need a pretty high temp to achieve fusion.

As for the much vaunted hydrogen economy - don't hold your breath. Our grandchildren might see it. You think we have OSH problems now? Wait until we try to transport and tank hydrogen. It's an OSH wet dream.

Hydrogen is the lightest and most volatile of all gases. Its damned hard to compress, loves to get free, and burns like 40 bastards. Just try to picture a society with little bombs fuelling cars, passing big bombs in tankers, on their way to the really serious bombs at the service stations.

Oh it'll get done eventually but who knows, there might be other better ideas. That compressed air car sounds fascinating. http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html

[scumdog]

Think I'll look up whatever happened to a guy called Smokey Yunick in the States. BAck in the late 60's, early 70's he was doing amazing things with Buick V6's and compound turbochargeing getting impressive fuel economy.

Heard of him? I met him in the US in 1981.
A very crafty bugger and 'expander' of rules regarding racing was our Mr Yunick.:yes:

[Pixie]

rape seed (flax) oil was seen as the ideal alternative diesel fuel....
Minor correction:
Rape seed oil is Canola.The Canadian producers didn't like the word rape,so they came up with canola (canadian oil)
Flax seed oil is linseed oil.Linus= latin for flax,we also get linen,which is made from flax fibre and linoleum which is made from the oil.

[Pixie]

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.
Heavy water is Di-Deuterium oxide,still H20.
I'm not going to explain the difference between the isotopes of hydrgen (hydrogen,deuterium and tritium)

What the fuck do they teach in schools these days?Bead weaving and sandal making?

[Pixie]

A bit more smoke and a funnier smell than diesel.
Maybe it ran hotter and produced more nitrous oxide

[Pixie]

What we need is a catalyst that takes nitrogen and carbon dioxide from the air, and a bit of our water fuel is added to the mix so we afixe a nitrogen, a carbon and a hydrogen together... and leaves pure oxygen and this "green organic waste gas" for us to breathe...

Someone really needs to propose that to the greens :-D


for those of you who don't know, HCN is hydrogen cyanide
Ha Ha
Sounds like foliage to me

[slimjim]

:gob: well another thought too, is if the lakes keep getting so foul and polluted then i reckon we would just need to take a bucket to rotorua and pour it straight into our bike tank and she run like it was on avgas:scooter:

[kro]

I'd be happy to try any alternative fuel, to prove that the rising petrol prices are pure profiteering. I'm a veangeful sod who likes seeing people get their come-uppance.

Did anyone see that thing on TV a few weeks back about the oil sands in Canada?, if they can find a cheap way to harvest it, the yanks will have to quit with the Canada jokes is all I can say.

"The worlds single largest deposit of Oil"
http://www.oilsandsdiscovery.com/

[Motu]

Oh for the Muldoon years again eh? There was a man who knew about alternative fuels.....

[Edbear]

H2O2 on the other hand is hydrogen peroxide



For cars driven by blondes?

[Edbear]

Heard of him? I met him in the US in 1981.
A very crafty bugger and 'expander' of rules regarding racing was our Mr Yunick.:yes:


You were priviledged! Is he still around?, be rather old by now! Crafty like a fox, was our Smokey, but had a real understanding of physics and chemistry. I appreciated the way he could put technical terms into plain English for us laymen!

[RT527]

WTF??

Heard of coal and gas?

Yup hes right...huntly is a coal and gas fired power station, the water is merely used as a coolant....its not a Hydro Station at all....that would be the likes of Atiamuri, between Taupo andTokaroa, also at Whakamaru, and all the dams in the South island

[The Pastor]

Hey hitch - tell you what - get in touch in 6 months on this one...ONE of us will be able to say "I told you so"... I'm lookin' forward to 60c/litre myself...



60c/L - yeah right.


add 60 more cents for tax.

[Colapop]

The gumint has said that the mixed fuel prices will be equivalent to standard fuel prices, meaning that if petrol and diesel prices are through the roof then so will mixed fuels?

[Dadpole]

Did anyone see that thing on TV a few weeks back about the oil sands in Canada?, if they can find a cheap way to harvest it, the yanks will have to quit with the Canada jokes is all I can say.

"The worlds single largest deposit of Oil"
http://www.oilsandsdiscovery.com/


They would just "liberate" them

[Motu]

Yup hes right...huntly is a coal and gas fired power station, the water is merely used as a coolant....its not a Hydro Station at all....

It's also not largely run with Huntly coal either,they buy coal from overseas and it's railed from Tauranga to Huntly....I think some Huntly coal is high grade and sold overseas too.The open cast West Mine is fed straight to the power station,but the underground East Mine is higher quality and not used at the power station.What the hell would I know,I only live here...I only hear rumours.

[scumdog]

You were priviledged! Is he still around?, be rather old by now! Crafty like a fox, was our Smokey, but had a real understanding of physics and chemistry. I appreciated the way he could put technical terms into plain English for us laymen!

Nah, he died about 10 or so years ago. Cancer I think.

[Hitcher]

Maybe it ran hotter and produced more nitrous oxide
Just different volatiles and saturated fats.

[Hitcher]

Did anyone see that thing on TV a few weeks back about the oil sands in Canada?
Yes. Two words "environmental disaster".

[El Dopa]

Supposedly there's an obesity epidemic. And I heard the Earthrace guy had a bit of liposuction so he could use some of himself to fuel the boat.

I reckon we just kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of all the fat people who eat too much, requiring extra land for their food, who drive everywhere when they could walk 200m to the shops, who generally put the health system under extra pressure because of fat-related illnesses, and so on.

We don't need to spend any extra rescources growing them, they're already here.

Melt 'em down, and use them for fuel. It would solve a lot of problems.

[Colapop]

Yeah line up all the 'fatties' then when they start to run out we can use the 'not so fatties' and then the anyone over 20% bodyfat.... :bleh:

[slimjim]

Supposedly there's an obesity epidemic. And I heard the Earthrace guy had a bit of liposuction so he could use some of himself to fuel the boat.

I reckon we just kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of all the fat people who eat too much, requiring extra land for their food, who drive everywhere when they could walk 200m to the shops, who generally put the health system under extra pressure because of fat-related illnesses, and so on.

We don't need to spend any extra rescources growing them, they're already here.

Melt 'em down, and use them for fuel. It would solve a lot of problems..:finger: fuck you bro, rather put your mind to , oops that's right that's what a mental illness is about,,:finger:

[ManDownUnder]

H2O2 isn't heavy water.
Heavy water is water where a hydrogen has an extra neutron, hence it is heavier. There is a little bit of this hydrogen present in all the water we drink and it is perfectly safe.

H2O2 on the other hand is hydrogen peroxide.

Fair call (I guess...) but I'm still not drinking it

[ManDownUnder]

60c/L - yeah right.


add 60 more cents for tax.

Actually no - it'll be $31/1000kms (Road User Charges - I think that's what they are... right?)
MDU

[Pixie]

Just different volatiles and saturated fats.
Me thinks the humorous play on the link between "funnier smell" and nitrous oxide went right over your head.

[Hitcher]

Me thinks the humorous play on the link between "funnier smell" and nitrous oxide went right over your head.
When everybody laughs at all of my "pearls" I may return the favour. Philistines.

[Pixie]

Supposedly there's an obesity epidemic. And I heard the Earthrace guy had a bit of liposuction so he could use some of himself to fuel the boat.

I reckon we just kill two birds with one stone. Get rid of all the fat people who eat too much, requiring extra land for their food, who drive everywhere when they could walk 200m to the shops, who generally put the health system under extra pressure because of fat-related illnesses, and so on.

We don't need to spend any extra rescources growing them, they're already here.

Melt 'em down, and use them for fuel. It would solve a lot of problems.
And call it "Soylent Fuel"

[Hitcher]

And call it "Soylent Fuel"
"Soylent Green is people!"

[Pixie]

When everybody laughs at all of my "pearls" I may return the favour. Philistines.
It may be that too many of them are cultured

[El Dopa]

.:finger: fuck you bro, rather put your mind to , oops that's right that's what a mental illness is about,,:finger:

Charmed I'm sure. Are you serious? If you can't take a bad taste joke (and this is pretty mild compared to some of the stuff on here), then you'll probably be better off at www.vicarsteaparty.co.nz.


"Soylent Green is people!"

Great. Thanks for spoiling it for me.

[OMG]

Charmed I'm sure. Are you serious? If you can't take a bad taste joke
Slimjim's right, imagine that, melting down fat people, how could you suggest such a thing when there are so many whales just asking to be harpooned and melted down. They virtually jump into the Japanese ships :laugh:

[slimjim]

Slimjim's right, imagine that, melting down fat people, how could you suggest such a thing when there are so many whales just asking to be harpooned and melted down. They virtually jump into the Japanese ships :laugh:
too right,, be fucked if i have any japs eat all the fatties,, eat these little fuckies first, enough of them to keep things running for a while:spudflip:

[kickingzebra]

Ah, but lean protien has a lower energy yeild (but higher muscular repair) Fat has a huge enrgy yield, but is hard to burn...
Wonder what will render down to more final product, and how could one test it?
Take one dead person of same height and weight from each ethnic group, render them down until they are done, then make a candle from the waste, and see how long it burns for in a sealed state...

[oldguy]

and whats wrong with steam ? been done before.

[kickingzebra]

180 HP GSXR thou, running steam... Just doesn't have the same ring to it...
I suspect lossy for energy efficiency, pressure etc, is probably worth pursuing, but steam, from water, from open fire.... mebbe no...

Nuclear energy is generally steam though... (shameless right wing plug)

[Pixie]

180 HP GSXR thou, running steam... Just doesn't have the same ring to it...
I suspect lossy for energy efficiency, pressure etc, is probably worth pursuing, but steam, from water, from open fire.... mebbe no...

Nuclear energy is generally steam though... (shameless right wing plug)
The burner in a steam car, when properly designed, can be, and has been, as environmentally clean as the 2001 model gasoline powered cars. This, without any form of special pollution reducing gadgetry, none at all, it is inherent in the modern burner design.

The paramount advantage is that the fuel particle is burned at almost atmospheric pressure, bringing the oxides of nitrogen down to the lowest possible level, if actually present at all. The residence time of that fuel particle in the burner is long, resulting in complete combustion. The unburned hydrocarbons can be non-existant. This has been proven over and over again.

Yes, there is CO2 produced. That occurs when any carbon based fuel is burned and one cannot trick Mother Nature.

If one wanted to concentrate solely on the oxides of nitrogen and CO2 issue, consider the vast number of jet airplanes that burn huge quantities of fuel and happily inject their exhausts high into the atmosphere. Try that one as a pollution problem should you be worried about the so-called global warming issue!

The fuel for a modern steam car can be any light liquid that can be delivered to the burner; petroleum derived fuels, vegetable oils, fuel oil derived from coal, any combustible liquid fuel. No additives are needed nor are they wanted, with the possible exception of fungus inhibitors, the burners work very well on a cheaper straight run fuel. Pure kerosene is an excellent fuel for the steam car.

The statement, by the uninformed, has often been made that the steam car is horribly inefficient and burns vast amounts of fuel. Yes, the old antique steamers were none too efficient, nor in that early era did they have to be; but with a well developed steam powerplant, fuel mileage is now quite good, when compared to an equivalent performance gasoline car, and the steamer will burn a much cheaper fuel than any other mobile powerplant.

There is another nice feature of a steam-powered vehicle, which has not often been mentioned, even by the enthusiasts for the steamer. When puttering along in traffic the burner has little work to do, as no real power is demanded from the engine. The burner is shut off most of the time while in stop and go traffic.

When sitting at a signal light, the burner is off. The residual steam pressure is maintained in the steam generator and starts the car instantly, the burner then coming on when pressure drops below a proscribed limit. The burner cycle then starts all over again, maintaining pressure and temperature. Fuel mileage in town driving is excellent. The steamer does not just sit there idling and wasting fuel and causing pollution.

Some thirty years ago, a team in Texas designed and built a steam powerplant for installation into a Volkswagen Squareback station wagon, and it all fit in the original engine compartment, save for the condenser. This operational steamer delivered over 23 miles per gallon, the same as the original smog equipment strangled VW engine. Enough said on that subject.

Operational Characteristics.

Here is where the steam car really shines.

The steam engine develops maximum torque at minimal revolutions, right from the start, therefore, no clutch or transmission is needed. This torque is not inconsequential either. The simple Stanley 20 HP two cylinder engine develops at maximum, some 640 lbs/ft of torque. The legendary Doble at maximum pressure develops 2200 lbs/ft of torque on the crankshaft. These levels can not be matched by anything in any normal automobile, plus, the engines just loaf along at highway speeds. Their gear ratios between the engine crankshafts and the axle shafts is usually 1-1/2 to one, bringing silent and vibrationless operation, and also delivering extremely long engine life.

This massive torque produces high acceleration rates, not easily equaled by their contemporary gasoline engined cousins. Their performance is exemplary.

[Hitcher]

Great. Thanks for spoiling it for me.
No worries. "The Crying Game"? She's a he...

[Ixion]

wot Mr Pixie said. Steam engines are wonderful things. I just wish they were obtainable. Dunno about in a bike though, even with modern flash boilers 'twould be a bit bulky I think (love to be proved wrong though)

[Motu]

It's always been a puzzle to me how they make the internal cumbustion engine so efficient emission wise,and yet the external combustion engine,where they have greater control of the combustion process is not so good at all.It just has to be development - throw as much money into the various forms of external combution engine as has been poured into the internal job and I'm sure we'd see some results.Pssst,shssst,psssst,shsssst has got to be better than potato potato....

[El Dopa]

No worries. "The Crying Game"? She's a he...

Gaagh. I'll be taking those two back unwatched tomorrow. Oh well, at least I've got "the sixth sense" left. Can't wait to find out if Bruce Willis gets back together with his wife.

[kickingzebra]

So steam proponents are trying to tell me it is more efficient to take one drop of petrol, and use it to heat water, to generate steam, than it is to take one drop of petrol in a direct internal combustion engine??

I mean, OK, I think steam engines are wonderful, but that seems like an inefficient order of operations... Besides which, getting a new can on the gsxr would just not hold the same lustre.
Internal combustion rocks!!

[Ixion]

Yes, because you can have less heat wasted. Most of the energy (heat) generated by burning your drop of petrol in an IC engine gets wasted - blown out the exhaust or lost to the air. Because you only have one one-hundredth of a second to make use of the heat , to extract its energy and turn it into motion.- then it has to be scavenged away to make room for the next "drop".

But with external combustion you can utilise far more of the heat- you pass the hot gases through the exchanger as much as you want, in theory could do it until you reached ambient and there was no more heat to extract (in practice, that would not be efficient, but you get my drift).

To be sure, the steam engine has other losses (the steam needs to be condensed for one thing), but it can still be far more efficient than an IC engine.

[Hitcher]

Gaagh. I'll be taking those two back unwatched tomorrow. Oh well, at least I've got "the sixth sense" left. Can't wait to find out if Bruce Willis gets back together with his wife.
"I see dead people"...

Please let me know before you watch "Fight Club".

[Pixie]

wot Mr Pixie said. Steam engines are wonderful things. I just wish they were obtainable. Dunno about in a bike though, even with modern flash boilers 'twould be a bit bulky I think (love to be proved wrong though)
I saw in a New Scientist article,that the Swiss are developing a steam power unit in which the steam generator and engine would easily fit in a bike

[kickingzebra]

Ah thank you wise and wonderful people!! I hadn't thought of it quite like that...
I feel greatly enriched! Thankyou kiwibiker!!

Still, none the less, the roar of a good v twin... How can steam replicate or surpass that?

[Winston001]

Yes, because you can have less heat wasted. Most of the energy (heat) generated by burning your drop of petrol in an IC engine gets wasted - blown out the exhaust or lost to the air. Because you only have one one-hundredth of a second to make use of the heat , to extract its energy and turn it into motion.- then it has to be scavenged away to make room for the next "drop".



So why aren't internal combustion engines designed to vapourise the fuel before it gets to the cylinder head, using the waste heat? Adds more energy back into the equation.

[Motu]

Carburettor and heated inlet manifold,this is the main reason bikes will never pass emission tests or be as efficient as car engines.That's the main reason bikes are now going to fuel injection.

Big power outputs require external combustion - power stations and large ships use steem turbines.All it needs is billions of dollars of development...but there needs to be an end use,until there is it'll never be done by the big boys.I remember seeing a photo of a steam powered outboard once....jeez.