Anyone done an advanced road riding course?

[jonbuoy]

Have any experienced bikers here done an advanced road riding course? And did you think it was worth it? Relevant? Or just teaching you to suck eggs?

[Deano]

Have any experienced bikers here done an advanced road riding course? And did you think it was worth it? Relevant? Or just teaching you to suck eggs?

I did my advanced road riding course chasing WT, Cycosis, Jimbo and Hayden. In fact - I'm still learning.:blip:

[White trash]

I'm pretty sure they have their place, and certainly no form of advanced training can hurt. Never done one though, not to interested in someone telling me I need to slow down and ride with both wheels on the ground.

[Streetwise]

yea i have done one, It was back when i was 15 but i still use the shit that i was taught. I have run a couple as well, Things like being aware of the vehicles / conditions around you, Watching Ahead, Reacting to situations, emergency Braking, that sort of thing. The reality is though most people who want advanced training want to learn how to go faster round corners, I think they have there place as long as they teach the realities of riding.

[justsomeguy]

I'm pretty sure they have their place, and certainly no form of advanced training can hurt. Never done one though, not to interested in someone telling me I need to slow down and ride with both wheels on the ground.

Hey WT how come you're so fast man :wait: :blip:

---------------

Jonuboy - if you haven't already - please turn up for the Ride Right Ride Safe course at Whenuapai. At $45 it's excellent value. Even as an experienced rider you will find it a positive experience.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2006-4-30&e=763&c=1

[Blackbird]

Yes, I did one with Ward Fisher, ex-MOT Chief Instructor in Hamilton about 3 years ago and it was one of the most worthwhile things I've ever done. WT's fears about teaching you to slow down simply didn't enter into it. It was all about awareness, positioning and techniques like high speed braking; the sort of thing which is important at any speed. Riding fast doesn't mean that you're necessarily a good rider. (Perhaps the number of bins reported on KB is evidence!) I've always thought that the main difference between cage drivers and those that ride bikes as well is that bikers recognise that you never stop learning about roadcraft.

I'd never had a peer review of my riding and Ward certainly picked up some less than desirable habits that I had. The course was 1:1 for about 4 hours and represented fantastic value. Bike to bike communications provided by Ward was a real bonus too. It's interesting that I was concentrating so hard that I was soaked in sweat and fell asleep in the armchair when I got home!

[jonbuoy]

Thanks, yeah $45 is great value. Booked it. I know what you guys mean - being told to stick to the speed limits isn't what I want to pay good money for..... Was hoping maybe they would do one similar to the training the Police get for their High Speed persuits, some of the posts on mad boys runner got me thinking. Not thinking about using it for that though....

[justsomeguy]

Yes, I did one with Ward Fisher, ex-MOT Chief Instructor in Hamilton about 3 years ago and it was one of the most worthwhile things I've ever done. WT's fears about teaching you to slow down simply didn't enter into it. It was all about awareness, positioning and techniques like high speed braking; the sort of thing which is important at any speed. Riding fast doesn't mean that you're necessarily a good rider. (Perhaps the number of bins reported on KB is evidence!) I've always thought that the main difference between cage drivers and those that ride bikes as well is that bikers recognise that you never stop learning about roadcraft.

I'd never had a peer review of my riding and Ward certainly picked up some less than desirable habits that I had. The course was 1:1 for about 4 hours and represented fantastic value. Bike to bike communications provided by Ward was a real bonus too. It's interesting that I was concentrating so hard that I was soaked in sweat and fell asleep in the armchair when I got home!

Do you know if he still does this? HOw much??

[Blackbird]

Do you know if he still does this? HOw much??

This is Ward Fischer's website: http://www.roaduser.co.nz/. He may tailor a course to your particular needs. I think the course was about $150 but it's probably gone up by now. I know advanced riding courses are run on tracks like Taupo but it was roadcraft I wanted to brush up on, not just riding fast.

I've just found the write-up I did on Ward's course which might give you a bit of an insight to what was involved. Hope it's of interest.

Geoff

[Fishy]

Yeah I did one in 1997 to cut down my license time and get my full quicker. I did mine with John Wright and it cost about $90.

It was basically a load of hazard identification on pictures, some riding around cones at speed using counter steering, high speed braking without locking the wheels and stopping at a certain point and then about an hour of observing my on road riding ability.

It was ok but didn't really learn anything I didn't already know. I only did it to cut my license time down.

I got a pretty certificate out of it though :blip:

[jonbuoy]

Yup any training is good training, as long as you do learn something I guess.

[a_wildman]

Roadsafe run one in Wellington .... was thinking that it might be a good way to brush up on a few skills ,has anyone been on it ? was it of Value ?
:ride:

[Blairos]

I've just found the write-up I did on Ward's course which might give you a bit of an insight to what was involved. Hope it's of interest.

Geoff

What a great review!

Is this course one of the "approved" LTSA courses that can reduce ones Restricted period from 9 months to 3 (for us old dottery over-25's)?

[justsomeguy]

This is Ward Fischer's website: http://www.roaduser.co.nz/. He may tailor a course to your particular needs. I think the course was about $150 but it's probably gone up by now. I know advanced riding courses are run on tracks like Taupo but it was roadcraft I wanted to brush up on, not just riding fast.

I've just found the write-up I did on Ward's course which might give you a bit of an insight to what was involved. Hope it's of interest.

Geoff

Very good read Geoff, I can relate to you feeling tired. Once did a Coro Loop where I had to concentrate really hard to stick with some other bikes. I was more tired that day than others when I've done twice the distance.

That course sounds like money invested, once I find some I'll definitely do it.

[Blackbird]

What a great review!

Is this course one of the "approved" LTSA courses that can reduce ones Restricted period from 9 months to 3 (for us old dottery over-25's)?


Thanks very much. I have no idea. Ward Fischer has been heavily involved with the national standards so he is best qualified to answer that. His contact email will be on his website. **Dottery over-25's**. Haha, I was a dottery "over 50" when I took the course - never too old to stop learning:rockon:

[Blairos]

Thanks very much. I have no idea. Ward Fischer has been heavily involved with the national standards so he is best qualified to answer that. His contact email will be on his website. **Dottery over-25's**. Haha, I was a dottery "over 50" when I took the course - never too old to stop learning:rockon:

Just went to the Website, and yes, there it would seem there is something in there about my previous question.

Time to put the research hat on and have a closer read :)

[Rosie]

What a great review!

Is this course one of the "approved" LTSA courses that can reduce ones Restricted period from 9 months to 3 (for us old dottery over-25's)?

I have a feeling (but would be happy to be proven wrong) that the "approved" LTSA courses refers to the standard defensive driving course. And I think you have to do it while on your restricted, so the defensive driving course I did back in 1996 wouldn't count.

[babyB]

Roadsafe run one in Wellington .... was thinking that it might be a good way to brush up on a few skills ,has anyone been on it ? was it of Value ?
:ride:i went through Roasafe years ago. did both On Road & Advanced Skills. i got alot out of it back then. thinks thay based training on the UK police system. but as i said that was a few years ago now http://www.roadsafe.co.nz/ looks like thy have changed with thie times too

[Ixion]

The "have to do on your restricted " (actually, have to have held a restricted for 6 months when you start the course), only applies to under 25s (sucks to be young,eh)

The actual rule is


Class 6 (a) If under 25 years of age, holds and has held a Class 6R
licence for either—
(i) At least 18 months; or
(ii) At least 12 months if the applicant
provides a certificate showing successful
completion by the applicant of an approved
course of a type specified in clause 93(a)
undertaken at least 6 months after the
applicant's restricted licence was issued
(b) If 25 years of age or over, holds and has held a Class
6R licence for either—
(i) At least 6 months; or
(ii) At least 3 months if the applicant
provides a certificate showing successful
completion by the applicant of an approved
course of a type specified in clause 93(a)


My emphasis.

But, as this is in the Driver Licensing Rule 1999, it would seem improbable that your 1996 course would be an approved course as specified in clause93(a).There were no retrospective approvals , as far as I am aware.

[jonbuoy]

Yeah, was looking for more advanced, that one on one course sounds good though. Maybe a bikey cop could do a bit of moonlighting for cash. He he. PM if your interested.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It was all about awareness, positioning and techniques like high speed braking; the sort of thing which is important at any speed. Riding fast doesn't mean that you're necessarily a good rider. (Perhaps the number of bins reported on KB is evidence!)

lol!

I did one a few years ago organised by some organisation in Wellington. We did refresher type stuff in a carpark in the morning (cone slalom, slow race low speed braking etc) . then some talking about all that stuff mentioned above then a road ride to Fielding via the Wairarapa. :rockon:

Day 2 was spent at Manfield doing high speed braking drills (my, it does stop quick!) cornering drills etc.

then road ride home.

probably about the best motorcycling money I have ever spent...

I would like to do another actually.

[Ixion]

Hm. Thought running through my mind about whether it would be possible to organise a Kiwibiker group day based around such a course. Which would save some money and also bring a group dynamic to the thing.

Sort of like a track day, but based on roadcraft rather than trackcraft.

Personally, I'm not really interested in instruction on how to go faster. But instruction on how to ride smoother, and safer, would be good. And I'm sure I have probably acquired every bad habit there is to acquire, so having someone point them out would be good.

If that guy taught the old snakes to ride, then he must be bloody good, cos those guys could certainly ride.

Anyone got any thoughts?

[jonbuoy]

Yeah sounds good, not sure how it would be sorted - I guess different groups for different levels? Who would teach? Maybe a cop whos done some persuit training? No hooning on the day, cops know most of us would be speeding in the future I spose. Maybe few pointers on how to ride safer at speed - that's what there taught to do?

Donations made to Spank Me and A cop charity??

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.megarider.com/nzmsc.html

this might be the organisation I did my course with. Certainly the name Allan Kirk seems as if it should be familiar.

and the course




The top level, two day NZMSC Road and Racetrack Riding Course is almost legendary amongst experienced Kiwi riders. The first day of this course runs over some of New Zealand's most spectacular motorcycling roads and incorporates some astonishingly novel but educational exercises. Being a high level course run over challenging roads with exercises that expand the experienced rider's skill levels and help him/her analyse and understand his or her own riding processes, all participants must have more than two years riding experience and a reasonable skill level and knowledge of riding. The second day of the R & R course is spent at a racetrack where, in a safe environment away from oncoming traffic and roading hazards, the rider can learn high speed riding skills.



http://www.megarider.com/Articles/Newsletter1.html

one of the cool things we did was to get to the top of the takas, then coast engine off down the Masterton side, riding one handed: Yes, Virginia, motorcycles do countersteer.

[Blackbird]

http://www.megarider.com/nzmsc.htmlthis might be the organisation I did my course with. Certainly the name Allan Kirk seems as if it should be familiar.


Is Allan Kirk still in full business? I used to get his free newsletter and bought his video and illustrated booklet on braking technique some years ago. Haven't heard anything about him in ages.

[gixermike]

I reckon any advanced training is good training.

I did some with the police here (uk) last year, and it has acutally made me faster, and have less ' oh S£$t this is gonna be tight' cornering moments since.

Stuck to the limits in towns on the day went back to normal afterwards, faster and smoother.

It'll be worth a day of relative poodling, as no doubt you may not go above 100K's, but you probably won't slow down for the corners at all, so it's still fun.

[Streetwise]

Is Allan Kirk still in full business? I used to get his free newsletter and bought his video and illustrated booklet on braking technique some years ago. Haven't heard anything about him in ages.


Yes alan is still around, He,s not to muxt of a rider anymore but he does still offer valuable riding info, Bokks, Vids etc etc.

You can get him through his site if need be,

www.megarider.com