NCEA "technology". Is it total bullshit, or am I barking mad?

[Ixion]

I read an article in the esteemed Harold t'other day. This one http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=35&ObjectID=10378134.

Which prompted me to ask "Eh, woz thiz "technology" he's ratting on abart, nayway". I know what *I* mean by "technology", but what do these ejemacashin wallies mean by it. And how can you have an exam in it?

After a bit of ferreting, I figured out that "Technology" was a grab bag into which they'd thrown what we used to call Metalwork, and Woodwork, and Tech Drawing, and added Information Technology and Food Technology. Plus a bunch of other stuff that used to be for the girlz, like cooking (which I was pissed off they would not let me take at school - I really liked the idea of a subject that involved eating), and clothing (which I later acquired some proficiency at, by one of those strange twists of fate).

Now, back in the day, I knew what Metalwork and Woodwork were about. Personally, I got stuck in an academic stream , and didn't get as much time as I'd have liked at them, but what there was, was good. You got to make things, and use machines, and hit things with hammers and all such good guy type stuff. And the kids in the tech stream got pretty good at it, and mostly seemed to enjoy it. And came out of it when they left school, with some good skills and a good base for an apprenticeship or whatever.

And I also know somewhat of Information Technology (cos I was doing it before they invented that poncy name for it), and a passing bit, and a bit more, about Food Technology. All of which I would have thought would have been pretty keenly taken to by boys.

So, what have those plonkers done to these good and venerable subjects , that has stuffed them up so much that boys are failing at them, I wondered. I mean, I can't believe that boys have changed so much that they would no longer reckon that using a lathe was cool. Or hitting things with a hammer.

So I went and ferreted around on the Department of Education website, to try to find out.

Oh, my Gawd, what an experience. My eyes. My sanity. All I can say is, what a load of turgid, mealymouthed pompous, meaningless waffle, dished out by a bunch of cardy wearing treaty babbling poofs.

I waded through this steaming tripe in the hopes of a simple statement of what boys were expected to actually DO nowdays in these "technology" classes . Could I find such? Could I nelly.

The best I could find was this load of utter bollocks http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/ncea/assessment/resources/technology/docs/technological-knowledge.pdf

And this chundering load of drivel http://www.minedu.govt.nz/web/downloadable/dl7019_v1/technology-matrix-jan-06.doc

And all I can say is, if this crock of meaningless crap is what boys today are being subjected to, it's no wonder they're failing. Or, more precisely, they are , correctly, reckoning it's bullshit and tuning out.

So, anyone with actual experience of all this. Am I barking mad? Or is the only hope for parents with boys nowadays to chop the balls of the poor blighters before they go off to school, and tell 'em to pretend they're girlygirls, cos that's the only way they're going to get a fair deal from the education system? (I'm bloody certain that there aren't any balls at the Ministry of Education )

[Ixion]

Eh, wot gives 'ere ? Who closed me thread? an' why? ('Tis open again now)

[James Deuce]

The reason girls do better at NCEA (massive generalisation that too) than boys, is because (generally) girls flourish in a nurturing environment, and boys thrive on competition (generally). Remove competition and most boys are left floundering.

[sAsLEX]

The reason girls do better at NCEA (massive generalisation that too) than boys, is because (generally) girls flourish in a nurturing environment, and boys thrive on competition (generally). Remove competition and most boys are left floundering.

So the gender gap that was established 15 years back has now gotten worse with this excuse for an education system? Well thought out plan to stop it spreading. Herald ran something on the front page about it yesterday I think.

Ixion, its even spread to uni no longer is Engineering pure Engineering, No those that start now are forced to undertake papers in the likes of the arts etc, to keep us more rounded as people.

[sAsLEX]

The reason girls do better at NCEA (massive generalisation that too) than boys, is because (generally) girls flourish in a nurturing environment, and boys thrive on competition (generally). Remove competition and most boys are left floundering.

To lazy to edit other post.....

Kinda goes for my point as well that boys, when concerned with school, are generally lazier.

But to stop digressing, its not cool to be smart!

That is a clincher I think that modern youth society does not value high grades as items to be proud of. A nice set of chromes on the other hand , all on HP and likely to be repoessed, is worth much kudos.

Kinda funny now being in Engineering at Uni where being smart is looked upon as a good thing in my peer group.

[BuFfY]

Personally, I think the way they have set up NCEA technology is great. The transtition from primary school technology to high schools is way better from how it used to be. If you have a good look through the technology curriculum you may have a different view because it has actually been done really well.

They are teaching students 'life skills'... enquiry... logical reasoning. It isn't just about throwing some ingredients at them and saying cook! They now look at food safety and what foods they should and shouldn't eat due to fat content etc. So perhaps this is why boys aren't achieving as well as they used to? and not taking it as much? Because they actually have to sit theory tests... not all practical?

Well that is just my opinion any way! I am not studying to be a high school teacher yet I was in the year who were lucky enough to start out with NCEA! Yet I liked it...

[Coyote]

I'm currently doing level 2 metalwork and level 2 graphics. I'm not sure what's the problem. Those that fail tend to be dicks who don't take the class seriously. Level 2 is great now most of the dorks that piss around and did nothing have failed which leaves us that have got to the next level to get to work

[Krayy]

Just had a quick look through the PDF that Ixion linked to and if anyone can point me in the direction of a pre-pubescent 13 year old boy who fully grasps that doc, I'd like to forward his name to Mensa.

Expecting a raging hormone on legs to explain about key stakeholders, issues registers and keep updated logs on what skills they learned while making a handee towel holder (although thats probably a discriminatory object as it infers suppression of wimmin-kind) or a wood and sandpaper match striker (although that would encourage arson) is damn stupid.

Best thing I made in woodwork was a mess :yes:

[yungatart]

Boys are disadvantaged at school, by our education system for loads of reasons .....
more female teachers at high School now- the boys that do well under female teachers are likely to be "charming" or "cute",
lack of healthy role models,
the way the curriculum is taught and assessed favours girls,
lack of competition,
it is so NOT cool to be smart and do well,
parents who don't value education,
girls dominating now in subjects that used to be boy orientated
boys needing a totally different learning environment to girls
boys are emasculated by our whole society, not just the education system
the vagaries of male adolescence-how the hell are they supposed to concentrate on the Theorem of Pythagoras , when they get a burst of Testosterone every seven seconds...
I could add to it but to what end any way. As long as we have a society run by "women" (and I use that term loosely eg Helen Clarke), whose hidden agenda includes totally oppressing males there is no hope for NZ education system and our boys within that system.
We as parents have to treat our boys like boys. not girls with a winkle...

[Ixion]

..

If you have a good look through the technology curriculum


Where is this curriculum? All I could find was stuff like the twaddle in the links I posted

(BTW, food safety and nutrition were taught in cooking even in my day. And they had to sit theory exams as well as practical)

I found this



The definition of
technology given in Technology in the New Zealand Curriculum is somewhat
broader than that in common usage (Burns, 1991) and forms the basis for
understanding what is taught as school technology. The definition given is:
“Technology is a creative purposeful activity aimed at meeting needs and
opportunities through the development of products, systems, or
environments. Knowledge, skills and resources are combined to help solve
practical problems. Technological practise takes place within, and is
influenced by, social contexts” (Ministry of Education, 1995, p.6).


I wish someone would tell me what that drivel actually means, and what it has to do with anything technological, and what social contexts (whatever the hell they are) have to do with knowing how to use a lathe to make something that works and is well crafted.Or write a computer program that works.

[Ixion]

I'm currently doing level 2 metalwork and level 2 graphics. I'm not sure what's the problem. Those that fail tend to be dicks who don't take the class seriously. Level 2 is great now most of the dorks that piss around and did nothing have failed which leaves us that have got to the next level to get to work

Ah so you ought to be able to answer the original question . What do you actually DO in metalwork? And why is it not cool in some eyes. I can't believe any boy could not agree that belting the shit out of stuff with a big hammer was not cool .

(The dicks that dick around and fail have always been there. That hasn't changed )

[Rosie]

Kinda funny now being in Engineering at Uni where being smart is looked upon as a good thing in my peer group.

Like anything, I think it's cool to be normal. When you're at school, and you're one of the top students in your year, you are a bit different.
You go to uni, and it seems like half the people there were dux/head student/whatever at their school. So it becomes normal, something of a non-issue even. I couldn't tell you who the smart or dumb people in my engineering class were.

With regard to the wording of the NCEA technology thing, you'll probably find that they teach all the same sorts of things that they used to, but it had to be translated into meaningless strings of buzzwords for someone in Wellington.
We have to do the same thing to get research funding out of the government. You can't say "We'll discover cool things and save industry lots of money" you have to produce concept documents that no-one understands, and loosely tie them to the research that needs to be done.

[MSTRS]

.... So perhaps this is why boys aren't achieving as well as they used to? and not taking it as much? Because they actually have to sit theory tests... not all practical?...
Precisely!! What good is a bunch of theories to a boy? Give a boy a tree and watch what he does. Now put another boy in front of the same tree BUT first tell him to draw piccies of it, plan his way to the top when he climbs it, take note of the difficult bits and how to overcome them AND then describe what he achieved from the 'process'....yea fuckn right....I'll show you a boy who will say to himself "fuck that" and promptly switch off until the lunch bell goes.
Trade Skills or Hard Technology or whatever wood/metalwork are now called, and the way they are 'taught' these days is partly the reason why we have a dearth of decent tradesmen in this country (not counting anyone over 40 who got proper trade training)....
eg we had a heat pump installed at home today. Two guys - 1 Pom and 1 Aussie - where were the Kiwis?? In school writing screeds of bullshit perhaps

[Coyote]

Ah so you ought to be able to answer the original question . What do you actually DO in metalwork? And why is it not cool in some eyes. I can't believe any boy could not agree that belting the shit out of stuff with a big hammer was not cool .

(The dicks that dick around and fail have always been there. That hasn't changed )
I'm currently learning how to use glass reinforced plastics. We had to design a car and now we're making a plug of it, and some people have made the mould of it. I've liked the subject so far as I like car design and I like drawing, but I lot of my friends didn't like it because they thought they couldn't draw and it was incredibly boring for them. Although everyone has enjoyed making the cars thus far

Last year we got to belt the shit out of a lot of stuff though. I also had my hair catch on fire 3 times and I was electrocuted with 140 amps. Great fun

[MSTRS]

...contexts ....

Let's examine that word.....Con = a ripoff, have, a lie...Text = something in written form.
Says it all really....

[Ixion]

..

Last year we got to belt the shit out of a lot of stuff though. I also had my hair catch on fire 3 times and I was electrocuted with 140 amps. Great fun

Ah, that's encouraging, sounds like things I remember. But , in that case, why are they saying that boys are not achieving ? Hair on fire 3 times AND electrocuted, that sounds pretty cool to me. I'll go do some more research.

(Do you mean you actually get to make the car? And it has to work? )

[BuFfY]

The curriculum is for teachers... we spend a lot of time looking through them so that everyone in the country has the same opportunity and learns basically the same principles. The curriculum is a teachers best friend!

We get issued a copy when we are studying. I am sure if you go to the learning media website you could have a look through it as they are the ones who published it.

In regards to the teaching processes in schools... the curriculum is set out in a behaviourist way... in the terms that it is formally assessed etc etc... It is not the governments fault as to how we teach... it is the individual teachers fault

[Blackbird]

Now, back in the day, I knew what Metalwork and Woodwork were about. Personally, I got stuck in an academic stream , and didn't get as much time as I'd have liked at them, but what there was, was good. You got to make things, and use machines, and hit things with hammers and all such good guy type stuff. And the kids in the tech stream got pretty good at it, and mostly seemed to enjoy it. And came out of it when they left school, with some good skills and a good base for an apprenticeship or whatever.


I'd guess we're of a similar age Les as I share those views. After school, I did a fitting/turning apprenticehip before going to university and also picked up some post-grad quals after coming to NZ. I'd like to think that the "old-fashioned" metalwork and tech drawing learned at school prompted me to go further but I have some doubts whether the current curriculum would have done so. All I can say is that I'm glad our kids are well out of the school system.

As a parting shot, a certain Associate Minister of Education was my next door neighbour a few years back. He was also the architect of "modern apprenticeships". I shudder to think how much damage that person caused to the country. He was an ex-school inspector which says it all.:sick:

[Ixion]

Precisely!! What good is a bunch of theories to a boy? Give a boy a tree and watch what he does. Now put another boy in front of the same tree BUT first tell him to draw piccies of it, plan his way to the top when he climbs it, take note of the difficult bits and how to overcome them AND then describe what he achieved from the 'process'....yea fuckn right....I'll show you a boy who will say to himself "fuck that" and promptly switch off until the lunch bell goes.
..

But surely the thing is , that crap is NOT the theory of how to climb a tree? In my day, we still had to do theory. But it was the theory of what you actually DID , not a lot of bullshit about how you felt about it, and what you learned from the "process". It's too long ago , I can't remember much of the theory , but I do recall stuff about change gears, and case hardening, and how steel changes colour. And different alloys and their composition, and what they were used for. Useful stuff.

The theory of tree climbing would be about the best way to get up the tree, what to watch out for with rotten branches and such like.

[sAsLEX]

I also had my hair catch on fire 3 times and I was electrocuted with 140 amps. Great fun
Interesting.......

Table 1. Estimated Effects of 60 Hz AC Currents
1 mA Barely perceptible
16 mA Maximum current an average man can grasp and "let go"
20 mA Paralysis of respiratory muscles
100 mA Ventricular fibrillation threshold
2 Amps Cardiac standstill and internal organ damage
15/20 Amps Common fuse or breaker opens circuit*

*Contact with 20 milliamps of current can be fatal. As a frame of reference, a common household circuit breaker may be rated at 15, 20, or 30 amps.

[yungatart]

hXc wanted to do Trade Skills this year- Level 1- too many kids in that class so , as he is a capable lad, he was put in to another option, similar but more focused on the academic stuff. He really just wanted to make a few things, useful or not, do some hands-on stuff as all his other classes are academic. It turns out that of the 24 credits available in that subject, 20 of them are awarded on his design folder, only 4 from the product he actually makes.
Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?- And it certainly doesn't meet his needs for an "easy" physical class.

[Coyote]

Ah, that's encouraging, sounds like things I remember. But , in that case, why are they saying that boys are not achieving ? Hair on fire 3 times AND electrocuted, that sounds pretty cool to me. I'll go do some more research.

(Do you mean you actually get to make the car? And it has to work? )
I'm afraid it's not a real car. It's roughly 1/20th scale. I hope to make some custom fibreglass fairings with the skills I've learnt though

I'm not sure how many people are really failing. I had a pretty good teacher last year that kicked out the trouble makers. We ended up with about 12 people in class out of an original 25 or so, and most of them are in my class this year

And most people haven't been as blessed as I have to be set on fire and electrocuted. That's generally because everyone has more common sense than I do

[Coyote]

Interesting.......

I say 140 amps as that's what the mig welder claimed it's output to be. And the current went through my hand. As far as I'm aware it's across the heart that's fatal. Apparently there was a rather large bolt of blue lightning which I didn't see since I had the welding mask on. Sure felt it though

[MSTRS]

But surely the thing is , that crap is NOT the theory of how to climb a tree? In my day, we still had to do theory. But it was the theory of what you actually DID , not a lot of bullshit about how you felt about it, and what you learned from the "process". It's too long ago , I can't remember much of the theory , but I do recall stuff about change gears, and case hardening, and how steel changes colour. And different alloys and their composition, and what they were used for. Useful stuff.

The theory of tree climbing would be about the best way to get up the tree, what to watch out for with rotten branches and such like.
Praps not the best analogy, but sentiment remains....boys are hands-on, learn-by-mistake creatures as a rule and not terribly interested in any other way of learning.

[Ixion]

I actually found this on the website of my old school


YEAR 12 VEHICLE TECHNOLOGY 12VTE
Qualification NCEA Level 2 credits
UNITEC Certificate for the Automotive Industry

Pre-requisite At the discretion of the HOD.
Main area of study Building a sports car(s) from raw materials.
This is a general engineering course, focussing on mechanics and fabrication.
Learning strategies Although the course is mainly practical, unit standards have a theory component that is tested each term.
Assessment Unit Standards
16113 Safe working practices [2 credits]
228 Hand tools [5 credits]
229 Identify automotive systems [5 credits]
231 Operations of 2 and 4 stroke petrol and diesel engines
[4 credits]
Cost/Equipment $40.00


Now, that looks about as cool as you could get I reckon. If they'd had courses like that when I was at school, every boy in the school would have been clamouring to get into them.

I mean BUILDING A SPORTS CAR ! (Well, yeah a sports BIKE would be better, but still).

So, if this is what boys are studying, how come the chickies are doing better at it. Wot givez? Is it a selection thing, that only a few girls take such courses, and they are the ones who are super keen and have a real natural apptitude? I remember when I worked in the diesel servicing industry, there was one wrench wench and she was universally acknowledged as the best mechanic in the company. Just cos she loved the work so much, and had such a natural gift for it.

[Coyote]

hXc wanted to do Trade Skills this year- Level 1- too many kids in that class so , as he is a capable lad, he was put in to another option, similar but more focused on the academic stuff. He really just wanted to make a few things, useful or not, do some hands-on stuff as all his other classes are academic. It turns out that of the 24 credits available in that subject, 20 of them are awarded on his design folder, only 4 from the product he actually makes.
Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?- And it certainly doesn't meet his needs for an "easy" physical class.
Guess it does defeat the purpose, but it worked out for me as the project I worked on, a pit stand for the CBR, was bunged up by the drill press but I got full marks since I was able to write down what the problem was and what I could do again to make that project work.

[Ixion]

I say 140 amps as that's what the mig welder claimed it's output to be. And the current went through my hand. As far as I'm aware it's across the heart that's fatal. Apparently there was a rather large bolt of blue lightning which I didn't see since I had the welding mask on. Sure felt it though

It's low voltage, which is why it's not fatal. I've had a few belts from a welder, they stir you up, but no more. Still cool but, especially if you got a lightning bolt.

[Coyote]

I actually found this on the website of my old school


Now, that looks about as cool as you could get I reckon. If they'd had courses like that when I was at school, every boy in the school would have been clamouring to get into them.

I mean BUILDING A SPORTS CAR ! (Well, yeah a sports BIKE would be better, but still).

So, if this is what boys are studying, how come the chickies are doing better at it. Wot givez? Is it a selection thing, that only a few girls take such courses, and they are the ones who are super keen and have a real natural apptitude? I remember when I worked in the diesel servicing industry, there was one wrench wench and she was universally acknowledged as the best mechanic in the company. Just cos she loved the work so much, and had such a natural gift for it.
Holy crap!? There's such a class?!?!?! Why was I not told!??!?!

There are no girls in my metalwork class. We had a few in year 10 that were only there to get with the rugby players

[MSTRS]

Guess it does defeat the purpose, but it worked out for me as the project I worked on, a pit stand for the CBR, was bunged up by the drill press but I got full marks since I was able to write down what the problem was and what I could do again to make that project work.
My point.....you worked out what went wrong and how not to repeat that AFTER making a (hands-on) mistake

[Coyote]

It's low voltage, which is why it's not fatal. I've had a few belts from a welder, they stir you up, but no more. Still cool but, especially if you got a lightning bolt.
I thought it was the amps that kill you? That's why you can die from 240V at a power plug but only be paralysed by 20,000V or something from a Taser

[sAsLEX]

I thought it was the amps that kill you? That's why you can die from 240V at a power plug but only be paralysed by 20,000V or something from a Taser

tasers are like a 1/3 of a milliamp or something tiny

[MSTRS]

I actually found this on the website of my old school


Now, that looks about as cool as you could get I reckon. If they'd had courses like that when I was at school, every boy in the school would have been clamouring to get into them.

Sorry Ixion - that item refers to Unit Standards not NCEA. U.S. are for the lower stream students who are not expected to be able to pass at NCEA level. Still it does sound cool

[Ixion]

My point.....you worked out what went wrong and how not to repeat that AFTER making a (hands-on) mistake
Yep, that's what works. So , taking the tree analogy, what you do is pick a hard tree, tell the boy to climb it, wait till he falls out of it and knocks himself silly. Then, once he's come round, y'say "OK, lets talk about what went wrong, and how you can do it next time without falling out". He'll listen to that. Theory needs to be seen to be applicable, otherwise it's just waffle.

[Ixion]

Sorry Ixion - that item refers to Unit Standards not NCEA. U.S. are for the lower stream students who are not expected to be able to pass at NCEA level. Still it does sound cool

Arrrggh. Now I'm more confused than ever. So, if the lower streams build sports cars what do the NCEA ones get to do? Build jet fighters?

[MSTRS]

Got it in one, my man. Succinctly put.

[MSTRS]

Arrrggh. Now I'm more confused than ever.

Put in the old terms....NCEA level 1 = School C, Level 2 = UE, Level 3 = Bursary. Since the namby-pamby cardy-wearers can't stand the idea of winners and losers, they decided to include a lower echelon called Unit Standards at every step, just so the cannon-fodder could feel they were achieving great things too.

[BuFfY]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE

[MSTRS]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE
The ones taking these courses were never gunna go to Uni tho, are they? It's just the Social Engineering Brigade's way of ensuring that everyone is a winner:sick:

[Ixion]

So why do they all have to go to uni? And why is automotive mechanics not a "reaL" subject. Does a tradesman need to go to uni? We managed very well previously with apprenticeships. I suggest that we need more tradesman more than we need more arts graduates.

Isn't this a reflection of the fundamental problem ? Here's a course that seems to be "boy focused". But its denigrated (by designation, I mean, not getting at anyone here) as "not a real course" and "only for kids who can't pass the 'real' papers". Preety good way to make the boys think "f**k this, then".

[BuFfY]

But these boys don't think that way at all! They love going to a class where they get to get dirty and stuff. I'm not quite sure if there is theory or not... I assume they have a sit down before each class and say righto today this will happen etc.

I'm not saying that these are not 'real subjects' I did health in 5th form and it has Unit standards in it but I learnt so much from them! One was like young child care... uhh.. yeh!

[Rosie]

The also have unit standards because they are papers that aren't recognised as being sufficient enough to get into uni. So people who take these lil papers because they think they are easy and are basically just filling up their timetable need to realise they need to have enough real subjects to get UE
I always thought of Unit standards as being more practical/work oriented and NCEA was more academic/get-into-university.
I've got a couple of unit standards in useful things like workplace first aid and being able to fill out a truck logbook.

I went to a girls school, so we weren't able to do metalwork or woodwork until 5th form. And then we would have to go to the neighboring boys school. I would have liked to do metalwork, but the prospect of being the only girl in a class of girl-crazy 15 year old boys was a bit much. And it was assumed that you only took classes at Nelson College because you wanted to hook up with rugby players. But not nearly as bad as the stigma attached to boys who came to our school to do cooking and sewing so they could meet girls.

[MSTRS]

One of the things that annoys me is the focus on 'education'. There seems to be a school (pun not intended) of thought that education begins at 5 and ends when you leave school (hopefully with a bit of paper with grades on it). Has everyone forgotten that we start learning when we are born & don't (shouldn't?) stop until we die?

[Ixion]

But these boys don't think that way at all! They love going to a class where they get to get dirty and stuff. I'm not quite sure if there is theory or not... I assume they have a sit down before each class and say righto today this will happen etc.

I'm not saying that these are not 'real subjects' I did health in 5th form and it has Unit standards in it but I learnt so much from them! One was like young child care... uhh.. yeh!

I'm sure they do enjoy it. But, the point I'm taking, is that if one sends them the message that such a course isn't a "real" course, then one can hardly be surprised if they don't take the actual *study* part of it seriously, and just devote themselves to the fun part.

And I would think that the reason they love such classes is not because they get to get dirty. It's because they have the opportunity to actually DO stuff, and see it work. Or not work. And then fix it so it DOES work. Instead of a lot of waffle. See, right here we have the yawning chasm between the way males and females approach education (and not just at school)

[Motu]

I'm not really someone who can comment on education...I didn't get a lot of it,and I don't send my 4 kids to school - anti establishment runs deep in this family.

But I took a technical course in high school back in the '60's,and I think Ixion would like some comments from that era.There was obviously some need to keep a strict control on us,we were seperated from our commercial girl counterparts by the width of the whole school,and the width of the school hall,but there must of been some contact as there were still teenage pregnancies.We had much tougher disapline than the academic boys,and caning was a way of life.The only option was woodwork or engineering,and of course I took engineering - we did theory was well as practical,learning about metals and threads and stuff.My first engineering teacher was Mr Ganely,the very same from the firm Watson Steel and Ganely,my next teacher was Mr Slaughter,from the firm Mundle and Slaughter.These guys weren't teachers,they were hands on engineers who had built up sucessful engineering firms,and turned to teach their subject in later years to put back into their industry.

Tech drawing was the class we did our geography homework in,but inbetween topographic maps we drew whitworth bolts and stuff.I sat at the back of the class and came in the bottom 5 every exam - but topped the school in School Cert Tech Drawing,that made the teacher shake his head a bit.''Could do better'' was a common remark in my reports - of course I could do better,but why should I? The rest of the classes the teachers just went through the motions,being technical boys we weren't worth teaching,we were only going into the trades at best,more likely in some factory or roading gang.It was a no brainer that we had no women teachers,only for music once a week,but she realised it was a lost cause so why bother.

Somehow I got a pass in School Cert and half a doz of us came back to make 6 Tech,the first time the school had a 6 form technical class....we were normaly too dumb to get to the 6th form.Just a reflection of the job market,we didn't get jobs,so came back to school.And now I had a problem - Engineering was not a 6th form subject,I had to take woodwork...no fucking way man! So I went into the metalwork shop and they kicked me out and locked the door.I used to stand at the door looking in and the teacher would tell me to piss off.For some reason or other I also stopped going to the other classes and became school groundsman,that was better than classes.Then I got a real job.

I started writting this reply over 4 hrs ago,I've kinda forgotten what the question was - I really enjoyed the metalwork shop,playing around on the lathe,smashing metal on the anvil.Made a crowbar once....I thought the original design wasn't quite right,and shrunk it so I could carry it in my school bag.....

[Rosie]

Made a crowbar once....I thought the original design wasn't quite right,and shrunk it so I could carry it in my school bag.....

A schoolbag sized crowbar would be a prime candidate for credit-thingee # 1.7
"Describe the interactions between a technological innovation and society"

[Motu]

So how would we describe the credits for the skeleton keys we produced to open all the doors in the school,or the skills we developed learning to pick the locks of those we didn't have keys for?

[MSTRS]

So how would we describe the credits for ......
Time off for good behaviour??

[Drunken Monkey]

...They are teaching students 'life skills'... enquiry... logical reasoning. It isn't just about throwing some ingredients at them and saying cook! They now look at food safety and what foods they should and shouldn't eat due to fat content etc. So perhaps this is why boys aren't achieving as well as they used to? and not taking it as much? Because they actually have to sit theory tests... not all practical?...

That is, apparently, the principle behind current taching models. It sounds good in principle too, I'm sure I would've been all for it when I was having the times table boringly drilled down my throat at school. In principle, I think it sounds like a good idea.

In practice, it doesn't seem to be the case.

Is it just me, or does it seem like people who grew up under the old fashioned 'impractical' style of wrote learning actually grew up better prepared than kids today? It seems to me, if you don't get the basics right, learning from a systems point-of-view isn't going to make an iota of difference.

Heck, kids these days can't even spell.

Maybe its other factors, perhaps what kids are doing in their spare time outside of the classroom that's the cause?

[Jantar]

They are teaching students 'life skills'... enquiry... logical reasoning. ..

But that is not technology. They are not learning about how different metals react when placerd in close proximity to each other, they aren't learning about how an internal cumbustion engine works, and why a two stroke can develop more power than a four stroke at the same engine rpm, they aren't learning about how an aircraft wing develops lift. All these technical aspects have been eliminated from technology, and instead they learn life skills?

In that case call it home skills, call it cooking or whatever. But don't call it technology.

[Jantar]

I thought it was the amps that kill you? That's why you can die from 240V at a power plug but only be paralysed by 20,000V or something from a Taser
An old saying in the electricity industry: "Its the volts that jolts, but the mills that kills"

Your body resistance is probably of the order of 4 - 8 Kohm, so the actual current that you will receive from a welder set to 140 amp is around 8 - 16 mA. That will make eyes water a bit.

[ZorsT]

Ixion,
If you want your children to learn anything useful, you'll have to teach them yourself.

I enjoyed going into the workshop at school and hammering away at different things.
I stopped doing it after year 10 (4th form) because of the paperwork.

The same happened with PE. I enjoyed running around trying to kick stuff, or hurt people, but the paperwork turned me away.

[Swoop]

People actually wonder why there is such a major skills shortage in NZ with this load of bollocks for a "course"...

All those morons who think that kids "doing technology" are learning by playing with pieces of string and paper mache[sp], deserve to be charged triple the exhorbitant prices asked by plumbers, mechanics and builders!!!!:yes:

NCEA is a complete joke.:angry:

[Skyryder]

Boys are disadvantaged at school, by our education system for loads of reasons .....
more female teachers at high School now- the boys that do well under female teachers are likely to be "charming" or "cute",
lack of healthy role models,
the way the curriculum is taught and assessed favours girls,
lack of competition,
it is so NOT cool to be smart and do well,
parents who don't value education,
girls dominating now in subjects that used to be boy orientated
boys needing a totally different learning environment to girls
boys are emasculated by our whole society, not just the education system
the vagaries of male adolescence-how the hell are they supposed to concentrate on the Theorem of Pythagoras , when they get a burst of Testosterone every seven seconds...
I could add to it but to what end any way. As long as we have a society run by "women" (and I use that term loosely eg Helen Clarke), whose hidden agenda includes totally oppressing males there is no hope for NZ education system and our boys within that system.
We as parents have to treat our boys like boys. not girls with a winkle...

You left out blaming the parents. That's the real problem in education today. It's always someone elses fault.

Skyryder

[MSTRS]

You left out blaming the parents. That's the real problem in education today. It's always someone elses fault.

Skyryder
Back to school for you, then.....

....parents who don't value education,....